Free Agents in 2008, by position.

[gyldenlove]

Runningbacks (UFA)
Michael Bennett, Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Chris Brown, Tennessee Titans
Aveion Cason, Detroit Lions
Jesse Chatman, Miami Dolphins
Ron Dayne, Houston Texans
T.J. Duckett, Detroit Lions
Joe Echemandu, Houston Texans
Justin Fargas, Oakland Raiders
Maurice Hicks, San Francisco 49ers
Jamal Lewis, Cleveland Browns
Travis Minor, St. Louis Rams
Mewelde Moore, Minnesota Vikings
Artose Pinner, Atlanta Falcons
Musa Smith, Baltimore Ravens
Aaron Stecker, New Orleans Saints
LaBrandon Toefield, Jacksonville Jaguars
Michael Turner, San Diego Chargers
Derrick Ward, New York Giants

Runningbacks (UFA void)
Tatum Bell, Detroit Lions * (2009/but voidable in 2008)
Rock Cartwright, Washington Redskins * (2010/last 2 years voidable)
Greg Jones, Jacksonville Jaguars * (2009/voidable in 2008)
Julius Jones, Dallas Cowboys * (2008 and 2009 allready voided)
Michael Pittman, Tampa Bay Buccaneeres * (2009/voidable in 2008)

Runningbacks (RFA)
Marion Barber, Dallas Cowboys
Sam Gado, Miami Dolphins
Vernand Morency, Green Bay Packers
Alvin Pearman, Seattle Seattle
Tyson Thompson, Dallas Cowboys

Fullbacks (UFA)
Mike Alstott, Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Darian Barnes, New York Jets
Jon Bradley, Detroit Lions
Brad Hoover, Carolina Panthers
Dan Kreider, Pittsburgh Steelers
Reshard Lee, Oakland Raiders
Tony Richardson, Minnesota Vikings
Cecil Sapp, Denver Broncos
Thomas Tapeh, Philadelphia Eagles
Kris Wilson, Kansas City Chiefs

Fullbacks (RFA)
Casey Cramer, Tennessee Titans
Justin Green, Baltimore Ravens
Boomer Grigsby, Kansas City Chiefs
Corey McIntyre, Atlanta Falcons
Leonard Weaver, Seattle Seahawks

From Draftday.dk

[gyldenlove]

Quarterbacks (UFA)
Todd Collins, Washington Redskins
Daunte Culpepper, Oakland Raiders
Ken Dorsey, Cleveland Browns
Quinn Gray, Jacksonville Jaguars
Rex Grossman, Chicago Bears
Shaun Hill, San Francisco 49ers
Cleo Lemon, Miami Dolphins
Jamie Martin, New Orleans Saints
Josh McCown, Oakland Raiders
J.T. O’Sullivan, Detroit Lions
Chris Redman, Atlanta Falcons
Brian St. Pierre, Pittsburgh Steelers
Marques Tuiasosopo, New York Jets
Philip Rivers, San Diego Chargers * (Chargers have buy back option)
Mark Brunell, Washington Redskins * (Contract ends in 2010, but really only a 1 year deal)

Quarterbacks (RFA)
Derek Anderson, Cleveland Browns
Ryan Fitzpatrick, Cincinnati Bengals
Jared Lorenzen, New York Giants
Dan Orlovsky, Detroit Lions

From Draftday.dk

[gyldenlove]

Tight ends (UFA)
Stephen Alexander, Denver Broncos
Courtney Anderson, Detroit Lions
Dwayne Blakley, Atlanta Falcons
Mark Bruener, Houston Texans
Christian Fauria, Carolina Panthers
Michael Gaines, Buffalo Bills
John Gilmore, Chicago Bears
Ben Hartsock, Tennessee Titans
Nate Jackson, Denver Broncos
Eric Johnson, New Orleans Saints
Bennie Joppru, Seattle Seahawks
Billy Miller, New Orleans Saints
Matt Murphy, Buffalo Bills
Ryan Neufeld, Buffalo Bills
Marcus Pollard, Seattle Seattle
Sean Ryan, New York Jets
Bo Scaife, Tennessee Titans
Mike Seidman, Indianapolis Colts
L.J. Smith, Philadelphia Eagles
Jerramy Stevens, Tampa Bay Bucs
Ben Troupe, Tennessee Titans
Aaron Walker, St. Louis Rams

Tight ends (UFA void)
Anthony Becht, Tampa Bay Buccaneers *
Dallas Clark, Indianapolis Colts * (2009/voidable in 2008)

Tight ends (RFA)
Ben Utecht, Indianapolis Colts
Bryan Fletcher, Indianapolis Colts
Billy Bajema, San Francisco 49ers
Tim Euhus, Arizona Cardinals

http://draftday.dk/?q=node/8894

[BroncosTX77]

don't leave us hanging! Where is the rest of the list?!?!?1 :salute:

[gyldenlove]

It will come day by day, it is a lot of work.

[gyldenlove]

Wide receivers (UFA)
Sam Aiken, Buffalo Bills
Bernard Berrian, Chicago Bears
Troy Brown, New England Patriots
Reche Caldwell, Washington Redskins
Tim Carter, Cleveland Browns
Drew Carter, Carolina Panther
Antonio Chatman, Cincinnati Bengals
Keary Colbert, Carolina Panther
Terrance Copper, New Orleans Saints
Patrick Crayton, Dallas Cowboys
Devard Darling Baltimore Ravens
Andre Davis, Houston Texans
Robert Ferguson, Minnesota Vikings
Jabar Gaffney, New England Patriots
Justin Gage, Tennessee Titans
D.J. Hackett, Seattle Seattle
Devery Henderson, New Orleans Saints
Bryant Johnson, Arizona Cardinals
Aaron Moorehead, Indianapolis Colts
Randy Moss, New England Patriots
Eric Moulds, Tennessee Titans
Samie Parker, Kansas City Chiefs
David Patten, New Orleans Saints
Brandon Stokley, Denver Broncos
Troy Walters, Detroit Lions
Ernest Wilford, Jacksonville Jaguars

Wide receivers (UFA void)
Jerry Porter, Oakland Raiders (2009/voidable in 2008)

Wide receivers (RFA)
Rashied Davis, Chicago Bears
Jerome Mathis, Houston Texans
Ahmad Merritt, Arizona Cardinals
Tab Perry, Cincinnati Bengals
Jerheme Urban, Arizona Cardinals
Nate Washington, Pittsburgh Steelers

http://www.draftday.dk/?q=node/8940

[BroncosTX77]

I wanted Patrick Crayton last year as a RFA, if Denver doesn't re-sign Stokley then Crayton would be a great pickup. Bryant Johnson would be another good pickup too. Both can return kicks too.

[NinjaPirateFunk]

i'm not taking into account what kind of money we will have, who we can cut without paying too much, etc. because i'm lazy lol, but these are the players i think we should target...

-marion barber. this would probably cost us way too much but good lord would this guy be perfect for us. this guy is a monster and is being held back in a RBBC system. if our offense was on track, i'd fully expect 1500 yards and 18 touchdowns out of him. i'd cry tears of gold plated happiness if we acquired him.

-jared lorenzen. i understand it might be hard to run the bootleg, but he's not a bad qb from what i've seen from him. he might be a decent backup, considering he'll probably never play.

-randy moss. duh.

-david patten. i think he'd be a good sure handed slot receiver for us. even though i don't think anyone is as good a third wr as our own slot-machine, but he'd be a good one i think.

-patrick crayton. only in a 3rd wr role though. when he's single covered, he's gold. when teams send safety help against him, he's not that great. but put him between marshall and walker and we're set. though i'd rather we resign stokley.

[gyldenlove]

Center (UFA)
Eugene Amano, Tennessee Titans
Andy McCollum, St. Louis Rams
Seth McKinney, Cleveland Browns
Gene Mruczkowski, Miami Dolphins
Jeremy Newberry, Oakland Raiders
Wade Smith, New York Jets
Alex Stepanovich, Cincinnati Bengals
Ross Tucker, Washington Redskins
Casey Wiegmann, Kansas City Chiefs
Brett Romberg, St. Louis Rams

Center (UFA void)
Jeff Faine, New Orleans Saints (2009/void in 2008)
John Wade, Tampa Bay Buccaneers (2009/void in 2008)

Center (RFA)
Chris Myers, Denver Broncos

http://draftday.dk/?q=node/8972

[gyldenlove]

Guards (UFA)
Larry Allen, San Francisco 49ers
Jacob Bell, Tennessee Titans
Ruben Brown, Chicago Bears
Milford Brown, St. Louis Rams
Rick DeMulling, Washington Redskins
Alan Faneca, Pittsburgh Steelers
Lennie Friedman, Cleveland Browns
Adam Goldberg, St. Louis Rams
Jonathan Goodwin, New Orleans Saints
Rex Hadnot, Miami Dolphins
Anthony Herrera, Minnesota Vikings
Matt Lehr, Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Ryan Lilja, Indianapolis Colts
Chris Liwienski, Miami Dolphins
Stockar McDougle, Jacksonville Jaguars
Jamar Nesbit, New Orleans Saints
Mike Pucillo, Washington Redskins
Jake Scott, Indianapolis Colts
Justin Smiley, San Francisco 49ers
Fred Weary, Houston Texans
Jason Whittle, Buffalo Bills
Floyd Womack, Seattle Seahawks

Guards (RFA)
Joe Berger, Dallas Cowboys
Jason Brown, Baltimore Ravens
Dylan Gandy, Indianapolis Colts
Geoff Hangartner, Carolina Panthers
Chris Kemoeatu, Pittsburgh Steelers
Evan Mathis, Carolina Panthers
Scott Mruczkowski, San Diego Chargers
Stephen Peterman, Detroit Lions

http://draftday.dk/?q=node/9239

[broncos9697]

we need to take a look at..
rb. justin fargas
micheal turner
julius jones


fb...tony richardson




wr..........troy brown
patrick crayton
dj hackett
eric moulds
david patton
jerry porter....................what do ya think

[gyldenlove]

You don't want to know what I think.


Trow Brown and Eric Moulds are 214 years old combined, they are too old, too slow and neither bring anything to the offense.

Jerry Porter is talented, he is fast, unfortunately he has all the charm, personality and loyalty of dung. The only reason he is not as bad as TO for a locker room is that he is not as talented.

Patrick Crayton would be a decent signing, he is not super talented, but would face a lot of single coverage with Marshall on the field which is how it is now for him in Dallas.

DJ Hackett, I am not sold on him. Unfortunately they forgot to add "must be able to catch ball" to the list of terms when they hire recievers in Seattle. Year after year they run away with the title as the team with the most drops. Hackett is one of the reasons why.

Patten, he is a surehanded reciever with marginal speed, less than average size and he is old. He is basicly Stokley. We don't need another one.

I think the best WR's for us would be:


Bernard Berrian, if you can catch balls from Griese and Grossman you can catch them from anyone. He is really fast (which we need) he has good hands, he is young and he is not a top name.

Andre Davis, he is a good returner (we need one), he has above average hands, he is very fast and young.

Bryant Johnson, he is young, he is big, he is talented, he is a backup so he is not going to get top money.

RB:

Justin Fargas, no. He is not a particularly good fit.

Michael Turner, no. He is a really fast guy. I don't think he can hold up to carrying the load, and he is going to cost so much that he has to.

Julius Jones, no. He is injury prone, he doesn't run north-south enough for our system.

FB:

Tony Richarson, this is something I have talked about for a while, I would like him, but he is old. Everywhere he has been runningbacks have been going wild so he knows what he is doing. I would like this to happen.

FA:

I would like us to aggressively target Bernard Berrian and Karlos Dansby in FA. This requires us to cut Walker and Gold and restructure Lepsis. Dansby is a SLB who would fit well, he is fast, has good hands and is a solid tackler. He is only 24 so he has the years ahead of him.

If Nalen comes back, we are okay, if not we need to target a guard or center. I would like a guy like Justin Smiley, I know the team is big on him and he has sucked this year so he is a whole lot cheaper now.

We do need an OT, Lepsis is getting beat like a dream on the left side and Pears is having a world of problems on the right. Harris is hopefully the next big thing and we do need some depth at the position, either a FA or draft pick.

If we address WR, SLB and OL in FA we can focus on DT, S and MLB in the draft. The draft this year is very strong on LB, so we could get a starter in the 2nd round leaving us with options in the first. I wouldn't mind a draft going like this:

1. Limas Sweed, WR
2. Frank Okam, DT
4. Jonathan Goff, MLB
4. Tavares Gooden, LB

[kratos_godofwar]

I think the three guys we need to go after on offense are:
1. Alan Faneca - easy choice here. Big, strong, athletic and very good in pass protection.
2. Marion Barber - Basically a much younger version of Travis Henry. Breaks tackles often, scores points, and runs downhill. I doubt that Dallas will let him go though.
3. Bernard Berrian - has great speed and can strecth the field. Again, I doubt that Chicago will let him go. He's their only receiver on that team.

Once you get the defense, I'll comment on that. Since I only know of a few big name players who I wouldn't want anyways.

[Rockies24]

You don't want to know what I think.


Trow Brown and Eric Moulds are 214 years old combined, they are too old, too slow and neither bring anything to the offense.

Jerry Porter is talented, he is fast, unfortunately he has all the charm, personality and loyalty of dung. The only reason he is not as bad as TO for a locker room is that he is not as talented.

Patrick Crayton would be a decent signing, he is not super talented, but would face a lot of single coverage with Marshall on the field which is how it is now for him in Dallas.

DJ Hackett, I am not sold on him. Unfortunately they forgot to add "must be able to catch ball" to the list of terms when they hire recievers in Seattle. Year after year they run away with the title as the team with the most drops. Hackett is one of the reasons why.

Patten, he is a surehanded reciever with marginal speed, less than average size and he is old. He is basicly Stokley. We don't need another one.

I think the best WR's for us would be:


Bernard Berrian, if you can catch balls from Griese and Grossman you can catch them from anyone. He is really fast (which we need) he has good hands, he is young and he is not a top name.

Andre Davis, he is a good returner (we need one), he has above average hands, he is very fast and young.

Bryant Johnson, he is young, he is big, he is talented, he is a backup so he is not going to get top money.

RB:

Justin Fargas, no. He is not a particularly good fit.

Michael Turner, no. He is a really fast guy. I don't think he can hold up to carrying the load, and he is going to cost so much that he has to.

Julius Jones, no. He is injury prone, he doesn't run north-south enough for our system.

FB:

Tony Richarson, this is something I have talked about for a while, I would like him, but he is old. Everywhere he has been runningbacks have been going wild so he knows what he is doing. I would like this to happen.

FA:

I would like us to aggressively target Bernard Berrian and Karlos Dansby in FA. This requires us to cut Walker and Gold and restructure Lepsis. Dansby is a SLB who would fit well, he is fast, has good hands and is a solid tackler. He is only 24 so he has the years ahead of him.

If Nalen comes back, we are okay, if not we need to target a guard or center. I would like a guy like Justin Smiley, I know the team is big on him and he has sucked this year so he is a whole lot cheaper now.

We do need an OT, Lepsis is getting beat like a dream on the left side and Pears is having a world of problems on the right. Harris is hopefully the next big thing and we do need some depth at the position, either a FA or draft pick.

If we address WR, SLB and OL in FA we can focus on DT, S and MLB in the draft. The draft this year is very strong on LB, so we could get a starter in the 2nd round leaving us with options in the first. I wouldn't mind a draft going like this:

1. Limas Sweed, WR
2. Frank Okam, DT
4. Jonathan Goff, MLB
4. Tavares Gooden, LB

So we invest money into a guy like Berrian and draft a reciever 1st?

No need to go with a reciever #1, I would agree we need depth but not our first draft pick. We need to go S or DT or OLB in the first round and second depending on what we adress in FA. WR/KR should come in the 4th along with a FB.

In addition Okam will not fall out of the first round and even if he does pull an Alan Branch type fall he will still go early in the second round and we would have to trade up to get him.

Also there is no reason to cut Walker or Gold. If walker proves to be healthy next year then he is our deep guy, and he has proven he can be one of the most effective WR in the league when healthy, so if he is why ruin that?
Walker and Marshall duo would compliment each other and would be deadly.
With gold I would rather focus our energy on our weakest links on D which have been DT and a cover saftey. To be honest Gold hasn't had the best season but is still effective and would be more so effective behind a solid D-Line. Draft a mid-round guy to groom behind Gold, but he is an effective starter.

[Mat'hir Uth Gan]

So we invest money into a guy like Berrian and draft a reciever 1st?

No need to go with a reciever #1, I would agree we need depth but not our first draft pick. We need to go S or DT or OLB in the first round and second depending on what we adress in FA. WR/KR should come in the 4th along with a FB.

In addition Okam will not fall out of the first round and even if he does pull an Alan Branch type fall he will still go early in the second round and we would have to trade up to get him.

Also there is no reason to cut Walker or Gold. If walker proves to be healthy next year then he is our deep guy, and he has proven he can be one of the most effective WR in the league when healthy, so if he is why ruin that?
Walker and Marshall duo would compliment each other and would be deadly.
With gold I would rather focus our energy on our weakest links on D which have been DT and a cover saftey. To be honest Gold hasn't had the best season but is still effective and would be more so effective behind a solid D-Line. Draft a mid-round guy to groom behind Gold, but he is an effective starter.


Co-Signed.

[gyldenlove]

Also there is no reason to cut Walker or Gold. If walker proves to be healthy next year then he is our deep guy, and he has proven he can be one of the most effective WR in the league when healthy, so if he is why ruin that?

Because, Walker has a 5 million dollar bonus coming, he already said he won't take a paycut. So we can pay him the 5, plus his salary and hope he comes back and his now twice injured knee won't hold him back. If he gets injured next season or fails to get back to shape, we will have 10+ mill from Walker on the cap, if you are taking up 10 mill on the cap you HAVE to produce.

With gold I would rather focus our energy on our weakest links on D which have been DT and a cover saftey. To be honest Gold hasn't had the best season but is still effective and would be more so effective behind a solid D-Line. Draft a mid-round guy to groom behind Gold, but he is an effective starter.

Gold can't tackle, when he used to play next to Wilson it wouldn't matter so much because Wilson could tackle anything. Now that he has to hold up his own, he is not delivering. The book on him is that he is a "cover" linebacker, but as we have seen, Dallas Clark, Antonio Gates, Tony Gonzales, Owen Daniels and even Desmond Clark have no problem getting open. That is just not good enough. He didn't have his best season last year, in fact he was bad, and he hasn't shown that last year was an accident. 2 bad years in a row is not a bad day, that is a trend. Of course every linebacker would be better behind a solid D-line, but a good linebacker would be good behind a bad D-line, a bad linebacker will play like Gold does.

In addition Okam will not fall out of the first round and even if he does pull an Alan Branch type fall he will still go early in the second round and we would have to trade up to get him.

Okam is ranked in the 2nd round by nfldraftscout.com, he is not on Kipers top 25 senior board which puts him in the bottom 2nd early 3rd. He has played so so this year, he probably won't blow anyone away with his workouts. There are a bunch of players who could leapfrog him.

As for drafting Sweed, that is if we do not land a legitimate starter in FA. Right now it looks like we will be drafting in a good position for value, so we should have a few options. If we land Dansby, but fail to land a WR, WR becomes more of a need than LB, and we probably won't get Ellis or Dorsey anyway.

[JoRo]

Honestly if it was Madden I would be all for getting Dansby and trading Webster and Gold for a 2nd round pick maybe a 4th too... and then picking up Boss Bailey..


But since it isn't I doubt we land Dansby..


What I honestly don't get is how Okam can not be that high a pick with the stats and size he has... and then he isn't in trouble ever?

I just don't get that... I think MUG is right and he will sky rocket, but I don't get how he cna be "lazy" and have 5 sacks and as many tackles as he does while being double teamed?

What gives?


I really wouldn't mind Berrian if we needed a wideout, him or Bryant would be a good number 2/1 to go with Marshall and Berrian would really give us a speed guy that isn't too old... but I think Berrian won't make it outta Chicago, they need to patch up taht offense and he is basically their best player on that side of the ball south of 30.

Barber will get a high tag unless Dallas thinks they can get McFadden (not happening)

Turner won't be worth the money he makes, he is playing behind one of the top 5 lines in football, he is going to head for a decline, people will say it is because he is not built to take the wear and tear, but he won't have as good a line.

Hackett I wouldn't mind though (kinda looking at other posts and came back to him) I wanted him last year... but I thought they signed him to a real deal? Not just a 1 year... cuz he was an RFA last year...

IF he is available he would be a great split number 2/3 guy if we dump Walker.



I dunno how I feel bout Walker though... honestly if he can bounce back: worth the money, splitting number 1 role with Marshall would help both of them open up more and give our offense some real firepower... but if he isn't that good... not worth the cap hit... he is heading to 30 already.... :(


I wish we never would have signed Henry... I would have rather we drafted a guy last year... so if we cut him I won't be sad at all... although I haven't really worried much bout RB's since we are stuck with Henry... If I had us being able to get a new one though I would want a grinder to pair with Young... as he is the boom or bust changeup. Barber would fit that well but like I said I can't see him leaving Dallas....


Just some thoughts for now.... I will come up wit more later

[lancane]

Because, Walker has a 5 million dollar bonus coming, he already said he won't take a paycut. So we can pay him the 5, plus his salary and hope he comes back and his now twice injured knee won't hold him back. If he gets injured next season or fails to get back to shape, we will have 10+ mill from Walker on the cap, if you are taking up 10 mill on the cap you HAVE to produce.



Gold can't tackle, when he used to play next to Wilson it wouldn't matter so much because Wilson could tackle anything. Now that he has to hold up his own, he is not delivering. The book on him is that he is a "cover" linebacker, but as we have seen, Dallas Clark, Antonio Gates, Tony Gonzales, Owen Daniels and even Desmond Clark have no problem getting open. That is just not good enough. He didn't have his best season last year, in fact he was bad, and he hasn't shown that last year was an accident. 2 bad years in a row is not a bad day, that is a trend. Of course every linebacker would be better behind a solid D-line, but a good linebacker would be good behind a bad D-line, a bad linebacker will play like Gold does.



Okam is ranked in the 2nd round by nfldraftscout.com, he is not on Kipers top 25 senior board which puts him in the bottom 2nd early 3rd. He has played so so this year, he probably won't blow anyone away with his workouts. There are a bunch of players who could leapfrog him.

As for drafting Sweed, that is if we do not land a legitimate starter in FA. Right now it looks like we will be drafting in a good position for value, so we should have a few options. If we land Dansby, but fail to land a WR, WR becomes more of a need than LB, and we probably won't get Ellis or Dorsey anyway.

Okam is slated by ProScouts Inc., D.S.A and McMullen & Binder as a mid-teen to early twenties first round pick. Most of the agencies can lick the salty rim of a margarita filled toilet, that is how much they know their stuff. And Kiper will likely have him moving up by draft day! Kiper has already stated he could bring his stock up big time. Do not buy into everything they say or you will be retracting your words later. Dorsey would be a great fit, but the chances are slim to none that he is there when we pick, but Okam will be. Unless Okam's value skyrockets or implodes he will not make it past the 29th pick of the draft guaranteed!

;)

[Mat'hir Uth Gan]

Because, Walker has a 5 million dollar bonus coming, he already said he won't take a paycut. So we can pay him the 5, plus his salary and hope he comes back and his now twice injured knee won't hold him back. If he gets injured next season or fails to get back to shape, we will have 10+ mill from Walker on the cap, if you are taking up 10 mill on the cap you HAVE to produce.



Gold can't tackle, when he used to play next to Wilson it wouldn't matter so much because Wilson could tackle anything. Now that he has to hold up his own, he is not delivering. The book on him is that he is a "cover" linebacker, but as we have seen, Dallas Clark, Antonio Gates, Tony Gonzales, Owen Daniels and even Desmond Clark have no problem getting open. That is just not good enough. He didn't have his best season last year, in fact he was bad, and he hasn't shown that last year was an accident. 2 bad years in a row is not a bad day, that is a trend. Of course every linebacker would be better behind a solid D-line, but a good linebacker would be good behind a bad D-line, a bad linebacker will play like Gold does.



Okam is ranked in the 2nd round by nfldraftscout.com, he is not on Kipers top 25 senior board which puts him in the bottom 2nd early 3rd. He has played so so this year, he probably won't blow anyone away with his workouts. There are a bunch of players who could leapfrog him.

As for drafting Sweed, that is if we do not land a legitimate starter in FA. Right now it looks like we will be drafting in a good position for value, so we should have a few options. If we land Dansby, but fail to land a WR, WR becomes more of a need than LB, and we probably won't get Ellis or Dorsey anyway.


Going to leave the Walker theory alone, as it's very reasonable. I disagree with the Gold summary, as I think he's played well two years in a row if you take into account how the team uses him. But I won't get into that here.


Let me address Okam though...

First, he had a dominating season at Texas. Keep in mind he is a Nose Tackle, his primary job in that defense is two-gap responsibility. He STILL put up elite DT numbers, and he's improved every season he's played. He's the real deal.

Second, he was voted by his team as the workout warrior, or whatever the hell they called it. Basically, he should set the Combine on fire with his workouts, especially concerning strength.

Third, he was voted captain by his teammates this season, he's articulate as hell, and he's possibly the smartest prospect in this draft graduating with a 4.0 and being accepted to law school.


Again...Okam has the brains, he has the brawn, he has the leadership ability, and he's put up excellent numbers throughout his 4 years at Texas. He's going to be a Top 20 pick. Kiper and McShay are clueless this time of year, and most of the other draft sites on the internet, simply follow what those guys say like sheep.

At some point coming up, you're going to see Kiper magically place Okam in the middle of his Top 25 with some witty comment along the lines of "Dominated for 4 years at Texas, offers unlimited potential at the next level if his effort is maintained. A solid value in the mid-1st round".

[gyldenlove]

Lets look at Okam, he has 5 sacks this year.

1.5 against Arkansas State, they are a bad team in the weakest conference
2 against Rice, they are a bad team in a bad conference
1 against Nebraska, they are a bad team in a good conference
0.5 against Texas A&M, they are a decent team in a good conference

So he has racked up 0.5 sack against opponents that at least have a shot at making the NFL. The remaining 4.5 is garbage.

He has 7.5 tackles for loss. They all came in the same 4 games.

2.5 against Arkansas state.
2.5 against Rice.
1.0 against Nebraska.
1.5 against Texas A&M.

That is just not impressive people. His inability to get any stats against the good teams says more about how he will perform in the NFL. If you look at Sedrick Ellis he performs quite a bit better against good opposition and in general (8.5 sacks and 12.5 stuffs).

I am not saying Okam isn't good, but he is not a legit 1st round pick, his workouts won't be great and because his production has been against really bad teams I think he will slide into the 2nd.

[lancane]

Lets look at Okam, he has 5 sacks this year.

1.5 against Arkansas State, they are a bad team in the weakest conference
2 against Rice, they are a bad team in a bad conference
1 against Nebraska, they are a bad team in a good conference
0.5 against Texas A&M, they are a decent team in a good conference

So he has racked up 0.5 sack against opponents that at least have a shot at making the NFL. The remaining 4.5 is garbage.

He has 7.5 tackles for loss. They all came in the same 4 games.

2.5 against Arkansas state.
2.5 against Rice.
1.0 against Nebraska.
1.5 against Texas A&M.

That is just not impressive people. His inability to get any stats against the good teams says more about how he will perform in the NFL. If you look at Sedrick Ellis he performs quite a bit better against good opposition and in general (8.5 sacks and 12.5 stuffs).

I am not saying Okam isn't good, but he is not a legit 1st round pick, his workouts won't be great and because his production has been against really bad teams I think he will slide into the 2nd.

You think fat-men can walk on water? :confused: Just wondering!

He is a classic line eater, he is not meant to tackle for losses or to get sacks...his job is to shut down the running lanes so his teammates get the job done! Those stats are far beyond what I would expect for a run stuffer...

:rolleyes:

[DancingHorsey]

You think fat-men can walk on water? :confused: Just wondering!

He is a classic line eater, he is not meant to tackle for losses or to get sacks...his job is to shut down the running lanes so his teammates get the job done! Those stats are far beyond what I would expect for a run stuffer...

:rolleyes:

That said, there is something to the argument that he isn't 1st round material. Run stuffing DTs aren't in as high a demand as play making DTs.

[Mat'hir Uth Gan]

Now, I'm hearing the same type of stuff I heard with Haloti Ngata, Mike Patterson, and Joe Staley. 5 months of bickering, and when they were taken in the 1st round, and have since gone on to be dynamite in the NFL, all the naysayers have not said one word. Nobody owns up to a damn thing on this board. They all run their mouths, give some half assed based opinions, and then when they are wrong, they never acknowledge it, or better make a new screen name.


I'm going to be here, under this screen name, every year, every draft, for the rest of my life. I go through the same annoying crap every year with different posters, and I've never been wrong *yet*.


Hopefully this draft, some of you don't hide and quit this forum if you're wrong. It's happened every single year since 2004 because I keep and document every debate I partake in. I love me some "I was right, you were wrong, I'm more football savvy than you" crow-serving feasts.

[DancingHorsey]

Now, I'm hearing the same type of stuff I heard with Haloti Ngata, Mike Patterson, and Joe Staley. 5 months of bickering, and when they were taken in the 1st round, and have since gone on to be dynamite in the NFL, all the naysayers have not said one word. Nobody owns up to a damn thing on this board. They all run their mouths, give some half assed based opinions, and then when they are wrong, they never acknowledge it, or better make a new screen name.


I'm going to be here, under this screen name, every year, every draft, for the rest of my life. I go through the same annoying crap every year with different posters, and I've never been wrong *yet*.


Hopefully this draft, some of you don't hide and quit this forum if you're wrong. It's happened every single year since 2004 because I keep and document every debate I partake in. I love me some "I was right, you were wrong, I'm more football savvy than you" crow-serving feasts.

Are you saying you've never been wrong about anything related to the draft? Ever? If that's the case, you shouldn't be here, you should be somewhere making money with your supreme knowledge.

[silkamilkamonic]

Lets look at Okam, he has 5 sacks this year.

1.5 against Arkansas State, they are a bad team in the weakest conference
2 against Rice, they are a bad team in a bad conference
1 against Nebraska, they are a bad team in a good conference
0.5 against Texas A&M, they are a decent team in a good conference

So he has racked up 0.5 sack against opponents that at least have a shot at making the NFL. The remaining 4.5 is garbage.

He has 7.5 tackles for loss. They all came in the same 4 games.

2.5 against Arkansas state.
2.5 against Rice.
1.0 against Nebraska.
1.5 against Texas A&M.

That is just not impressive people. His inability to get any stats against the good teams says more about how he will perform in the NFL. If you look at Sedrick Ellis he performs quite a bit better against good opposition and in general (8.5 sacks and 12.5 stuffs).

I am not saying Okam isn't good, but he is not a legit 1st round pick, his workouts won't be great and because his production has been against really bad teams I think he will slide into the 2nd.


It's not impressive because he's been playing hurt all year.

Glenn Dorsey has been playing hurt the last half of the year, and has looked below average and terribly ineffective. It isn't going to hurt his draft status at all.

Okam won't fall into the second round, and considering how Denver has had the NFL's worst Dline interior, they would be foolish to not take a guy like Okam if he was available.

[Mat'hir Uth Gan]

Are you saying you've never been wrong about anything related to the draft? Ever? If that's the case, you shouldn't be here, you should be somewhere making money with your supreme knowledge.

Nope, I've been wrong. The draft is half speculation. Now, am I pretty darn good for a fan on an internet board? Yeah. Do I *think* I can do better than Kiper Jr? Maybe, if that was my full time job. I dont really know what all he does. I do know he's not that good at draft projections months before the draft.

I'm currently using my time and "supreme knowledge" to win custody battles, property division, and probate issues. And I love that even more than the draft. I went to law school to become a Sports attorney, and then I found out that it's nothing like what I thought it would be. Being a sports attorney is not fun at all, focuses on anti-trust and gender/race issues instead of *football* stuff, and ruins the enjoyment of the game for you. And being a sports agent is hell on earth. What I would like to be is a GM, and that will never happen, so I get to live out my fantasy here on this message board like everyone else. Thankfully though for real life purposes, I found my passion in family law, and I've been doing that the last 8 months, and I love it. Very exciting.


Back on topic though...

I'm convinced talent evaluation is very simple and can be perfected. That's why some guys, like Ozzie Newsome, are vastly superior to other guys. I think I've got down a very good system for determining value, draft status, and who's a bust. But like you said, I'm not being paid for it. I'm just MUG Schmo on a message board, being an arm chair GM/Kiper Jr. The only thing I got going for me is that I've been right alot more than the other guys on this board over the years. And at least on this forum, for football discussion purposes, that is something of value.

[Rockies24]

Because, Walker has a 5 million dollar bonus coming, he already said he won't take a paycut. So we can pay him the 5, plus his salary and hope he comes back and his now twice injured knee won't hold him back. If he gets injured next season or fails to get back to shape, we will have 10+ mill from Walker on the cap, if you are taking up 10 mill on the cap you HAVE to produce.



Gold can't tackle, when he used to play next to Wilson it wouldn't matter so much because Wilson could tackle anything. Now that he has to hold up his own, he is not delivering. The book on him is that he is a "cover" linebacker, but as we have seen, Dallas Clark, Antonio Gates, Tony Gonzales, Owen Daniels and even Desmond Clark have no problem getting open. That is just not good enough. He didn't have his best season last year, in fact he was bad, and he hasn't shown that last year was an accident. 2 bad years in a row is not a bad day, that is a trend. Of course every linebacker would be better behind a solid D-line, but a good linebacker would be good behind a bad D-line, a bad linebacker will play like Gold does.



Okam is ranked in the 2nd round by nfldraftscout.com, he is not on Kipers top 25 senior board which puts him in the bottom 2nd early 3rd. He has played so so this year, he probably won't blow anyone away with his workouts. There are a bunch of players who could leapfrog him.

As for drafting Sweed, that is if we do not land a legitimate starter in FA. Right now it looks like we will be drafting in a good position for value, so we should have a few options. If we land Dansby, but fail to land a WR, WR becomes more of a need than LB, and we probably won't get Ellis or Dorsey anyway.

I suppose we will just have to wait and see with Walker, I have no problem with cutting him if he can't hold up, but if he does fine, that Cutler - Walker downfield hook up is something to salvitate over.

Landing Carlos Dansby is a pure fantasy and one that is not even needed. Again you pool your money and use it for your BIGGEST needs. LB is a need but one that can be adressed with a mid-round pick. I would agree with MUG, Gold has played okay but lower then his usual standards. Right now our biggest needs are DT and FS.

For example if you have the money to land one impact FA and you have a big need at DT, FS and some issues at LB Which would you focus your energy on? I have said it before and I will say it again that we MUST land a run stuffing DT who will command a double team. This does two things. Primarily, it would gravely improve our run defense which could be the diffrence for this team next year if we want to make it back to the playoffs. Next it would also gravely improve the play of Marcus Thomas and our LB's. Now as you even mentioned yourself Ian Gold's play will improve.

This would be a solid scenario.


1. Kenny Phillips (projected in the mid-first round)
2. OLB, Highsmith?
4. WR/KR
4. FB

Then in the later rounds go for O-Line depth and a CB.
Trade for Jenkins with Foxworth or maybe he will be cut.

In this scenario we adress all of our needs, run stuffing DT, a playmaking saftey who can cover, and an OLB to eventually suceed Gold.

I beleive the aqusition of a guy like Jenkins would change our whole defense, add the posibility of the return of a guy like Ekuban who is a run-stuffing DE and things look pretty good.

[gyldenlove]

For example if you have the money to land one impact FA and you have a big need at DT, FS and some issues at LB Which would you focus your energy on? I have said it before and I will say it again that we MUST land a run stuffing DT who will command a double team. This does two things. Primarily, it would gravely improve our run defense which could be the diffrence for this team next year if we want to make it back to the playoffs. Next it would also gravely improve the play of Marcus Thomas and our LB's. Now as you even mentioned yourself Ian Gold's play will improve.

I would put all my money in a big pile and give it to a LB. Have you seen the free agent DT's coming up? or the Safeties? it is a veritable clowncar of washouts, underachievers and career backups.

There are some really good free agent linebackers. It makes more sense to spend money on the best player. The free agent safeties and defensive tackles aren't even among the top 25 free agent players.

I don't know what games people are watching, every time I pay attention to Ian Gold I see him arm tackle or fall on the ground a couple of yards away from the ball carrier. I never said his play would improve, I said his play didn't matter when he had Al Wilson next to him.

As for drafting Highsmith, where does that leave Gold or do you want to actualy have 3 weakside linebackers on the field all at once? because we have had 2 this year and SUCKED! So if a strong side linebacker isn't needed, how do you think we will ever be able to cover a tight end again? because we have Gates coming up and I promise you he will put 100 yards on us because our outside linebackers can't cover.

[Mat'hir Uth Gan]

I would put all my money in a big pile and give it to a LB. Have you seen the free agent DT's coming up? or the Safeties? it is a veritable clowncar of washouts, underachievers and career backups.

There are some really good free agent linebackers. It makes more sense to spend money on the best player. The free agent safeties and defensive tackles aren't even among the top 25 free agent players.

I don't know what games people are watching, every time I pay attention to Ian Gold I see him arm tackle or fall on the ground a couple of yards away from the ball carrier. I never said his play would improve, I said his play didn't matter when he had Al Wilson next to him.

As for drafting Highsmith, where does that leave Gold or do you want to actualy have 3 weakside linebackers on the field all at once? because we have had 2 this year and SUCKED! So if a strong side linebacker isn't needed, how do you think we will ever be able to cover a tight end again? because we have Gates coming up and I promise you he will put 100 yards on us because our outside linebackers can't cover.


Man, you are pessimistic!

We don't do a lot of man coverage with our LBs, unless we are blitzing, which we rarely do. We drop into a lot of zone.

Next season, I'm relatively certain Sam Brandon will be back from his injury, and resigned, to play in our "Big Nickel" and cover those TEs in man coverage.

But, as far as free agent money, I don't really disagree with you. That might be the best approach to improving our LB corps. Though, I do say that Madieu Williams could be a great value at Free Safety. Before his injury last season, he was considered one of the best young safeties in the NFL.

[draco193]

Next season, I'm relatively certain Sam Brandon will be back from his injury, and resigned, to play in our "Big Nickel" and cover those TEs in man coverage.


What is leading you to believe that? Because it would certainly be my favorite signing if we brought him back and he was healthy.

[Mat'hir Uth Gan]

What is leading you to believe that? Because it would certainly be my favorite signing if we brought him back and he was healthy.


Shanahan was high on him, he seemed like he was in the team's plans for the future, and then he suffered a season ending injury in his final contract year. And then, we went out and were one of the worst teams in the NFL in TE coverage this year.

It's pure speculation, but with the need for safety depth and our reversal in fortunes regarding TE coverage, it makes a lot of sense to me. To the point I even expect it to occur providing Brandon is able to physically play next season.

[JoRo]

MUG when I make it to coaching I will recomend you for my scouting department staff as long as you were still interested


Yes I do hope to coach someday. The draft part of it is really interesting to me but if I can get the oppurtunity I want to make it in the coaching part, so you help prepare the meal and I will cook it haha

On Brandon:

If he comes back alright next year is there really a strong need for another high class safety? Curious... I spose it would help for the Big Nickel... but with a new DC in Bates would we still be using it?

[gyldenlove]

Offensive tackles (UFA)
Jordan Gross, Carolina Panthers
Flozell Adams, Dallas Cowboys
Stacy Andrews, Cincinnati Bengals
Sean Locklear, Seattle Seahawks
Nat Dorsey, Cleveland Browns
Brandon Gorin, St. Louis Rams
Jason Fabini, Washington Redskins
Kwame Harris, San Francisco 49ers
Cornell Green, Oakland Raiders
Kevin Barry, Houston Texans
Adrian Jones, New York Jets
Mike Rosenthal, Miami Dolphins
Max Starks, Pittsburgh Steelers
Kyle Turley, Kansas City Chiefs
Tyson Walter, Green Bay Packers
Travelle Wharton, Carolina Panthers
Maurice Williams, Jacksonville Jaguars
George Foster, Detroit Lions

Offensive tackles (RFA)
Elton Brown, Arizona Cardinals
Trai Essex, Pittsburgh Steelers
Scott Jackson, Houston Texans
Adam Kieft, Cincinnati Bengals
Cory Lekkerkerker, Miami Dolphins
Daniel Loper; Tennessee Titans
David Stewart, Tennessee Titans
Will Svitek, Kansas City Chiefs

http://draftday.dk/?q=node/9295

[DiehardinAlaska]

Gold can't tackle, when he used to play next to Wilson it wouldn't matter so much because Wilson could tackle anything.



I know it's the internet and all but man revisionist history is starting sooner and sooner.

We all miss Wilson. He was the emotional leader of the team and a HITTER. He was not a tackler, especially in his last three years. Time and time again we would watch him take a knockout shot but fail to wrap while the ball carrier gained extra yards. Which is what MLB's usually do, they are supposed to be the headhunters. The badass that sends the messages to the other teams lowly offensive players. But we definitely shouldn't hold him up as the guy who could tackle anything. For Pete's sake in the last 3 or 4 years he could barely get his shoulders working and keep arms at shoulder heighth. Now Bailey, that's a pure tackler.

[DiehardinAlaska]

Shanahan was high on him, he seemed like he was in the team's plans for the future, and then he suffered a season ending injury in his final contract year. And then, we went out and were one of the worst teams in the NFL in TE coverage this year.

It's pure speculation, but with the need for safety depth and our reversal in fortunes regarding TE coverage, it makes a lot of sense to me. To the point I even expect it to occur providing Brandon is able to physically play next season.


Probably the primary reason Cox was cut. He couldn't hold up as a safety and wasn't getting it done in coverage (where he had previously been good backing up Brandon) and thus he's gone. We've had a lot of movement there you can bet Shanahan is gonna look at every option.

So far we've had on the 53 -
Rogers
Cargisle
Lynch
Ferguson
Cox
Abdullah
Underwood
and Foxworth out of position

The DLine maneuvers have gotten all the attention because it's been more obvious but we're in just as much of a panic mode at Safety. For pete's sake we have Foxworth in for Lynch a lot now days. Foxworth is NOT a run stopper, we're just trying to find someone who can cover a TE or RB!

[gyldenlove]

Defensive ends (UFA)
Jared Allen, Kansas City Chiefs
Justin Smith, Cincinnati Bengals
Antwan Odom, Tennessee Titans
Travis LaBoy, Tennessee Titans
Bobby McCray, Jacksonville Jaguars
Ebenezer Ekuban, Denver Broncos
Tony Hargrove, Buffalo Bills
Eric Hicks, New York Jets
Ndukwe Kalu, Houston Texans
Travis Kirschke, Pittsburgh Steelers
Ross Kolodziej, Arizona Cardinals
Bryan Robinson, Cincinnati Bengals
Mike Rucker, Carolina Panthers
Darrion Scott, Minnesota Vikings
Corey Smith, Detroit Lions
Joe Tafoya, Arizona Cardinals
Josh Thomas, Indianapolis Colts
Al Wallace, Buffalo Bills
Jimmy Wilkerson, Kansas City Chiefs
Renaldo Wynn, New Orleans Saints
Tyler Brayton, Oakland Raiders

Defensive ends (UFA void)
John Engelberger, Denver Broncos
Demetric Evans, Washington Redskins
Jerome McDougle, Philadelphia Eagles

Defensive ends (RFA)
Adrian Awasom, New York Giants
Ryon Bingham, San Diego Chargers
Chris Canty, Dallas Cowboys
Chauncey Davis, Atlanta Falcons
Jonathan Fanene, Cincinnati Bengals
Simon Frasier, Cleveland Browns
Trevor Johnson, St. Louis Rams
Antonio Smith, Arizona Cardinals