Official FA Wanted Thread

[Cutler2007]

Go ahead and call out what FAs we should keep an eye on for 2008.

Here are my top FA targets (Trying to keep it realistic):

DT - Corey Williams - Obviously knows Bates System and would fit in perfectly next to Thomas.

FS Ken Hamlin/Gibril Wilson or SS Bob Sanders - I think getting one of these guys to play next to Hamza would be a great signing.

LT Travelle Wharton - Lepsis may be fine next year, but he will also be 34. Wharton is 26 and can play both sides.

Cheaper signings: WR DJ Hackett, RB Mewelde Moore

[Mat'hir Uth Gan]

None.

There are no Free Agents that excite me whatsoever. If Kris Jenkins gets released, I think we would need to take a look at him. Maybe Justin Smith if we don't resign Ekuban. Both those guys could be too expensive though.


This offseason, I think we have to budget for our future concerning our own young players that will need extensions this year or next.

[Rockies24]

None.

There are no Free Agents that excite me whatsoever. If Kris Jenkins gets released, I think we would need to take a look at him. Maybe Justin Smith if we don't resign Ekuban. Both those guys could be too expensive though.


This offseason, I think we have to budget for our future concerning our own young players that will need extensions this year or next.

Corey Williams, whats wrong with him?

He would be solid next to Marcus Thomas. He is only 27 and has played under Bates (If he sticks around) None the less I would take Williams over Jenkins, Williams is having a better season.

Wilson can cover, and is a ball hawk, would be a perfect fit across from Hamza.

I would have to say no to Justin Smith, got Crowder and Moss up and coming who will get a chance to play across from Dumervil next year.

[Nick]

Bob Sanders - Colts

Bryant Johnson Arizona - Cardinals

Albert Haynesworth Tennessee - Titans

Demorrio Williams - Falcons

[Rockies24]

Bob Sanders - Colts

Bryant Johnson Arizona - Cardinals

Albert Haynesworth Tennessee - Titans

Demorrio Williams - Falcons

Haynesworth will be tagged by the Titans meaning it would take 2 first rond picks to get him.

No need to go after a WR like Johnson when we have Marshall, Walker, and Stokley for next year.

Sanders might be to expensive but I like him next to Hamza, young and amazing.

Williams I could see.

[Nick]

Haynesworth will be tagged by the Titans meaning it would take 2 first rond picks to get him.

No need to go after a WR like Johnson when we have Marshall, Walker, and Stokley for next year.

Sanders might be to expensive but I like him next to Hamza, young and amazing.

Williams I could see.

I think WR still a priority. Walker has not shown he can stay healthy and we do not have a solid depth at the position.

I agree with Haynesworth is going to be very costly to get. I would love to see us grab a DT with 1st or 2nd round in draft. As far as who I like in free agency at DT... Really only Haynesworth though.

[Mat'hir Uth Gan]

Corey Williams, whats wrong with him?

He would be solid next to Marcus Thomas. He is only 27 and has played under Bates (If he sticks around) None the less I would take Williams over Jenkins, Williams is having a better season.

Wilson can cover, and is a ball hawk, would be a perfect fit across from Hamza.

I would have to say no to Justin Smith, got Crowder and Moss up and coming who will get a chance to play across from Dumervil next year.


Corey Williams does not fit. He's essentially the same type of player as Marcus Thomas. Both players need someone like Ryan Pickett next to them to be effective. Pickett is a true nose tackle. Kris Jenkins is a true nose tackle. Both Sam Adams and Dan Wilkenson are true nose tackles, we tried to get both. Gerrard Warren was let go because he is a penetrating tackle that does not like to clog.

It's very important to understand the intricies of the defensive tackle position. Especially in how it relates to the scheme your team wishes to run.

Marcus Thomas is a quasi-nose. Corey Williams is a quasi-nose. That means they can stand stout against the run to a point, but they are probably better used in penetrating situations. Their value comes in that they can do both well, but neither superb.

A true nose tackle, like a Kris Jenkins, Vince Wilfork, Haloti Ngata, Ryan Pickett, etc... Are generally average penetrators, but superb at commanding double teams and squashing running lanes.

A true nose tackle allows the quasi nose to be able to be dynamic, in the sense that on any given play, because the true nose tackle is going to command a double team and hold down the fort covering up to 2 gaps, the quasi-nose can either penetrate or play the run. It gives the defense much flexibility. So, the quasi-nose type DT is of extreme value.

But...you can't have 2 quasi-nose DTs side-by-side. Neither is good enough to command 2 gaps. Both are generally smaller DTs that will wear down doing such a scheme as well. You need at least 1 true nose tackle.

Some teams, such as the Jaguars, Vikings, and Ravens go with 2 true nose tackles. Some teams such as the Colts, Texans, and Bears go with 2 Under Tackles who focus on penetration because they have stout run-defending DEs.

We don't have that luxury because our DEs our basically pure pass rushers (Dumervil) or average against the run (Engleberger). So, if we put 2 quasi-nose tackles (Or a quasi-nose and an under tackle) along with our projected crew of DEs...we will get run on like nuts...again.


For Marcus Thomas to be truly effective in our defense, and for us to cover up the weakness of our DEs against the run, we need a beast of a true, full-bore, Nose Tackle in the middle of our defense. Truly, we need 2 of them (one to rotation in).

[slick7]

Excellent post, MUG.

[D.J.55]

mug good post. but i saw in your sig that you said Frank Okam is the best DT in the draft? your kidding right? i believe he's better than Ellis but not Dorsey. Dorsey is once and a life time player at the DT postion. Okam will be good but no way will he ever be better than Dorsey. i didnt see Okam win any award compared to Dorsey.

[Mat'hir Uth Gan]

mug good post. but i saw in your sig that you said Frank Okam is the best DT in the draft? your kidding right? i believe he's better than Ellis but not Dorsey. Dorsey is once and a life time player at the DT postion. Okam will be good but no way will he ever be better than Dorsey. i didnt see Okam win any award compared to Dorsey.


That's just my opinion. I absolutely could be wrong. But I think it's kind of a bold stance, I really respect and admire the guy on many levels. I think he's going to be a star in the NFL.

Dorsey, I think, will just be average. I don't trust DTs from LSU. Marcus Spears was a bust after being touted as a top prospect. Kyle Williams is marginal. Also, Dorsey is injury prone.

Finally, Dorsey is another quasi-nose type DT. Okam is a true NT. Which means its going to be tough to compare them statistically as their jobs will require much different play, and thus stats. And, in my opinion, the elite Nose Tackle is always of higher value then an Elite Under or Quasi-Nose.

I would rather take Vince Wilfork (Nose) then Warren Sapp (Under) or Cornelius Griffin (Quasi). Those are the 3 guys in recent history that are some of the best at their respective DT types.


So, really, it just comes down to my belief that a Nose makes your entire defense better by himself on each level. Frees up the LBs to make plays, makes the DTs/DEs next to him more effective, and allows the team to use their safeties in coverage. While an Under or Quasi helps the D-line put pressure on the QB, but doesn't really help your LBs or allow you to play your safeties back against the pass. They do help increase turnovers though.

[Rockies24]

Corey Williams does not fit. He's essentially the same type of player as Marcus Thomas. Both players need someone like Ryan Pickett next to them to be effective. Pickett is a true nose tackle. Kris Jenkins is a true nose tackle. Both Sam Adams and Dan Wilkenson are true nose tackles, we tried to get both. Gerrard Warren was let go because he is a penetrating tackle that does not like to clog.

It's very important to understand the intricies of the defensive tackle position. Especially in how it relates to the scheme your team wishes to run.

Marcus Thomas is a quasi-nose. Corey Williams is a quasi-nose. That means they can stand stout against the run to a point, but they are probably better used in penetrating situations. Their value comes in that they can do both well, but neither superb.

A true nose tackle, like a Kris Jenkins, Vince Wilfork, Haloti Ngata, Ryan Pickett, etc... Are generally average penetrators, but superb at commanding double teams and squashing running lanes.

A true nose tackle allows the quasi nose to be able to be dynamic, in the sense that on any given play, because the true nose tackle is going to command a double team and hold down the fort covering up to 2 gaps, the quasi-nose can either penetrate or play the run. It gives the defense much flexibility. So, the quasi-nose type DT is of extreme value.

But...you can't have 2 quasi-nose DTs side-by-side. Neither is good enough to command 2 gaps. Both are generally smaller DTs that will wear down doing such a scheme as well. You need at least 1 true nose tackle.

Some teams, such as the Jaguars, Vikings, and Ravens go with 2 true nose tackles. Some teams such as the Colts, Texans, and Bears go with 2 Under Tackles who focus on penetration because they have stout run-defending DEs.

We don't have that luxury because our DEs our basically pure pass rushers (Dumervil) or average against the run (Engleberger). So, if we put 2 quasi-nose tackles (Or a quasi-nose and an under tackle) along with our projected crew of DEs...we will get run on like nuts...again.


For Marcus Thomas to be truly effective in our defense, and for us to cover up the weakness of our DEs against the run, we need a beast of a true, full-bore, Nose Tackle in the middle of our defense. Truly, we need 2 of them (one to rotation in).

Yea and Sam Adams really helped against the run, all 360IBS of him.

I gurantee you Williams would garner more double teams and he has been quite effective against the run this year from what I have heard.

Excellent analysis and logic though, and I woudn'd mind Jenkins at all but he is injury prone.

Besides him who would you suggest? Okam, that NT from SF?

[Mat'hir Uth Gan]

Yea and Sam Adams really helped against the run, all 360IBS of him.

I gurantee you Williams would garner more double teams and he has been quite effective against the run this year from what I have heard.

Excellent analysis and logic though, and I woudn'd mind Jenkins at all but he is injury prone.

Besides him who would you suggest? Okam, that NT from SF?


I think Okam is a lock to be a star in the NFL, and I think he has the intelligence to do so from his rookie season onward.

Beyond him, Red Bryant looks like he could be a decent Nose Tackle. He's probably a 2nd round pick.

In free agency, I don't really like anyone. At least none of the projected free agents as of now. I'm sure someone decent will be cut, but good Nose Tackles almost never change teams until late in their career.

Grady Jackson might be a decent one year stop gap if we can't find anyone else.

Sopoaga didn't really impress anyone in SF, still they'll probably keep him as depth since their D-line is low on talent. And, as mentioned, Corey Williams has good talent, and he'd be an upgrade over Alvin Mckinley, but for the likely cost, he's not going to solve our defensive woes unless we bring in a couple studs at DE who excel against the run...which I can't imagine we will do after drafting the two rooks so early last year.


I think its Frank Okam or bust, unless Kris Jenkins is released. Other than those guys, Grady Jackson might buy us another year. Its just not a good year for Nose Tackles, in the draft or in free agency.

[stnzed]

I didn't know Bob Sanders was a FA, but if he is, how in the hell could they ever consider letting him walk? On the other hand, with what they're paying Manning, they have to run out of money sooner or later...Unless of course if Polians influence effects their salary cap too!

Haynesworth, Dansby and Briggs are as equally unrealistic as Sanders would be, but keep dreaming if you want to....I know I will...:D...

Corey Williams has begun to be more popular lately, and I will still dream of signing Jordan Gross til he signs with someone. I think the Panthers have some tough decisions to make with Gross/Wharton, one of them might become available.

And I'm with MUG, if Kris Jenkins becomes available, I hope he wants to come here and play Warren Sapp's team twice a year.

Bryant Johnson is a possibility if Walker's knee is career threatening......

[amirebram]

I like Cory Williams and Ken Hamlin.

I also know that Lepsis is old, but we drafted Ryan Harris in the 3rd to replace him. Why spend money on a starting LT?

I wouldn't mind bringing in another vetran OT, as long as he is cheap, to just try him out as depth.

Anyhow, other than a DT and/or FS, I don't think we should go after any high priced players. A couple of minimum salary depth type of players might be nice. For example, Winborn has been a good find.

[JoRo]

Actually Bryant wouldnt be bad from Zona if he is free...

Sanders may go cuz they hafta either choose him or Clark... and Sanders would be a leap of faith with his injury history...

I wouldn't mind Jenkins AT ALL though if he was free that would be awesome

[D.J.55]

That's just my opinion. I absolutely could be wrong. But I think it's kind of a bold stance, I really respect and admire the guy on many levels. I think he's going to be a star in the NFL.

Dorsey, I think, will just be average. I don't trust DTs from LSU. Marcus Spears was a bust after being touted as a top prospect. Kyle Williams is marginal. Also, Dorsey is injury prone.

Finally, Dorsey is another quasi-nose type DT. Okam is a true NT. Which means its going to be tough to compare them statistically as their jobs will require much different play, and thus stats. And, in my opinion, the elite Nose Tackle is always of higher value then an Elite Under or Quasi-Nose.

I would rather take Vince Wilfork (Nose) then Warren Sapp (Under) or Cornelius Griffin (Quasi). Those are the 3 guys in recent history that are some of the best at their respective DT types.


So, really, it just comes down to my belief that a Nose makes your entire defense better by himself on each level. Frees up the LBs to make plays, makes the DTs/DEs next to him more effective, and allows the team to use their safeties in coverage. While an Under or Quasi helps the D-line put pressure on the QB, but doesn't really help your LBs or allow you to play your safeties back against the pass. They do help increase turnovers though.


i don see how you can say Dorsey will only be average. Dorsey inst just the top DT in this draft he just might be the best prospect in this draft. people say that Okam was always double teamed so was Dorsey and he still made impact. Dorsey played hurt at a tough postion and still made a impact. i dont think Okam would play. and the way Dorsey gets hurt is people cheap shots at him (watch the Auburn game if you dont believe me), but he still plays through it. and that to me shows he loves the game and whats to be on the field making an impact. i get that Okam is smart but i dont think he has the heart, like Dorsey, to be the best. i do understand that Dorsey and Okam play DT but are asked to do different things.

watch these highlights:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-LkCvNK2iM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqiLlOybz9s
the cheap shot

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmZM9c5HQqY
just the first few seconds at the beginning. more of a team video.

[Mat'hir Uth Gan]

i don see how you can say Dorsey will only be average. Dorsey inst just the top DT in this draft he just might be the best prospect in this draft. people say that Okam was always double teamed so was Dorsey and he still made impact. Dorsey played hurt at a tough postion and still made a impact. i dont think Okam would play. and the way Dorsey gets hurt is people cheap shots at him (watch the Auburn game if you dont believe me), but he still plays through it. and that to me shows he loves the game and whats to be on the field making an impact. i get that Okam is smart but i dont think he has the heart, like Dorsey, to be the best. i do understand that Dorsey and Okam play DT but are asked to do different things.

watch these highlights:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-LkCvNK2iM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqiLlOybz9s
the cheap shot

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmZM9c5HQqY
just the first few seconds at the beginning. more of a team video.


I'm just not convinced yet with Dorsey. I think he'll be solid, but my opinion is that he'll be a 40 tackle, 5 sack kind of guy. Which is good, but he's not a true Nose Tackle, which as I explained, I put added value on. I just think elite Nose Tackles have the most value.

I definitely don't think he's the top prospect in this draft, I don't even think he's the best DT obviously. I think Sedrick Ellis is just better, and I think Frank Okam will be more valuable due to being an elite Nose Tackle.

We'll see how it all plays out. My track record with DTs is pretty good, but I'm definitely not always right. And your concern with Okam's heart is definitely a valid one, but if he turns down law school to go pro, I think that should be alleviated.

[D.J.55]

I'm just not convinced yet with Dorsey. I think he'll be solid, but my opinion is that he'll be a 40 tackle, 5 sack kind of guy. Which is good, but he's not a true Nose Tackle, which as I explained, I put added value on. I just think elite Nose Tackles have the most value.

I definitely don't think he's the top prospect in this draft, I don't even think he's the best DT obviously. I think Sedrick Ellis is just better, and I think Frank Okam will be more valuable due to being an elite Nose Tackle.

We'll see how it all plays out. My track record with DTs is pretty good, but I'm definitely not always right. And your concern with Okam's heart is definitely a valid one, but if he turns down law school to go pro, I think that should be alleviated.

Its not so much i dont like Okam its just i think Dorsey is a better prospect and to me he is the best prospect in this draft. I see Dorsey being a Kevin Williams type player. the ability to cause havoc on QB and backfields. but we can sit here and go back and forth but it all comes down to were they go and how they are used. If Dorsey or Okam fail into Denvers laps then i wish them all the luck in the world.

[CinnaMunMun]

He isn't listed to be a FA, but apparantly there are rumors that he will be released due to his knees and conditioning, so:

Shaun Rogers.

[Cutler2007]

I think a real interesting subplot to this off-season will be, do we try to fit players to a scheme or fit scheme to players. I do not know how flexible Bates is, but I do know Shanny is a bottom line type guy when it comes to defense.

IMO, we are not so married to Bates' scheme that we will kill ourselves trying to get a couple NTs so that we can play it. How many DTs have we gone thru trying to find one?

It wouldn't surprise me at all if we went back to a more attacking type defense.

[Cutler2007]

I like Cory Williams and Ken Hamlin.

I also know that Lepsis is old, but we drafted Ryan Harris in the 3rd to replace him. Why spend money on a starting LT?

I wouldn't mind bringing in another vetran OT, as long as he is cheap, to just try him out as depth.

Anyhow, other than a DT and/or FS, I don't think we should go after any high priced players. A couple of minimum salary depth type of players might be nice. For example, Winborn has been a good find.

I wouldn't say we drafted Harris to replace Lepsis, in fact it is yet to be determined if Ryan plays G or OT (in the future).

I just look at our front five and see Harris as the only real depth there if Hamilton and Nalen retire. I am sure we have some diamond in the rough somewhere, but we really could use a top tier Oline guy. Competition for a job is a good thing.

[Mat'hir Uth Gan]

I think a real interesting subplot to this off-season will be, do we try to fit players to a scheme or fit scheme to players. I do not know how flexible Bates is, but I do know Shanny is a bottom line type guy when it comes to defense.

IMO, we are not so married to Bates' scheme that we will kill ourselves trying to get a couple NTs so that we can play it. How many DTs have we gone thru trying to find one?

It wouldn't surprise me at all if we went back to a more attacking type defense.


We've needed a Nose Tackle type since 2004, when we should of taken Vince Wilfork. The difference being now is that we need a bigger Nose Tackle type. Regardless, it's time we finally drafted one. Our D-line has been craptastic inside for quite awhile now.

[Mat'hir Uth Gan]

I wouldn't say we drafted Harris to replace Lepsis, in fact it is yet to be determined if Ryan plays G or OT (in the future).

I just look at our front five and see Harris as the only real depth there if Hamilton and Nalen retire. I am sure we have some diamond in the rough somewhere, but we really could use a top tier Oline guy. Competition for a job is a good thing.

Harris is a pure left tackle. He's too weak to play OG or RT. The good news is that he'll likely be a very good LT in our scheme. He was tailor made to player here.

[kratos_godofwar]

Only FA I'm up for is Alan Faneca. He'll be an instant impact on our team. He'll demand big money, but it's worth it considering he's one of the best. Look at what Hutchinson has done for the Vikings. Best Running team in the NFL. It's not just Hutchinson alone, but his presence has been huge. Just look at how well Shaun Alexander has done with-out him. Not very well.

[Nick]

Only FA I'm up for is Alan Faneca. He'll be an instant impact on our team. He'll demand big money, but it's worth it considering he's one of the best. Look at what Hutchinson has done for the Vikings. Best Running team in the NFL. It's not just Hutchinson alone, but his presence has been huge. Just look at how well Shaun Alexander has done with-out him. Not very well.

That is a huge reason why he is going to get the big money and have every team trying to sign him. That would take a lot of money for one area where it could be distrubuted in ALOT more areas.

I really do not think the Broncos will have enough money for Faneca and as much as I would love him on our team... We would have to make some serious adjustments in whos on the team and reconstructured contracts and the signing of any additional free agents and draft picks

[JoRo]

Only FA I'm up for is Alan Faneca. He'll be an instant impact on our team. He'll demand big money, but it's worth it considering he's one of the best. Look at what Hutchinson has done for the Vikings. Best Running team in the NFL. It's not just Hutchinson alone, but his presence has been huge. Just look at how well Shaun Alexander has done with-out him. Not very well.

Look at Alexanders last year with Hutch- 370+ carries, and closing in on age 30...

Yawn....

Recipe for a decline right there... as history has shown

[BroncoFlyhalf]

That is a huge reason why he is going to get the big money and have every team trying to sign him. That would take a lot of money for one area where it could be distrubuted in ALOT more areas.

I really do not think the Broncos will have enough money for Faneca and as much as I would love him on our team... We would have to make some serious adjustments in whos on the team and reconstructured contracts and the signing of any additional free agents and draft picks


Both of Indy's starting guards, Ryan Lilja and Jake Scott, are free agents. While neither is the player Faneca is, they are younger and would be cheaper.