The Draft Impact of Extending Winborn

[Mat'hir Uth Gan]

First, excellent resigning, as he can effectively play any of the LB positions, even WILL in a pinch, which makes him about our only solid backup to Ian Gold. Obviously, he's the main backup at MIKE as well. And I'd imagine SAM to boot.


This signing suggests to me that Nate Webster will be remaining at SAM next season. This is because Winborn and Nate are very similar players, and there would be little reason to have two top reserves almost identical to themselves. And I think it's very telling that when DJ got nicked up, Nate didn't move over to MIKE, with Winborn moving to SAM. Instead Winborn replaced DJ, and Nate stayed put. I'm on board with Webster at SAM for the foreseeable future. He took a bit to get acclimated to the position, but has come on strong since our bye week.


This also impacts our draft to a degree as well, in essence, it effectively rules out taking a MIKE LB whatsoever, since we now have an elite starting MIKE, a very good reserve MIKE, and an emergency MIKE in Webster. So, DJ is a lock to stay at MIKE now, Nate is a lock to stay at SAM, and Winborn is our elite all 3 position LB backup, though he's definitely better suited for MIKE or SAM rather than WILL.


So, now the question becomes....which type of OLB do we focus on in the draft, and how much importance (i.e. round) do we place on such a player?


Again, Winborn projects as a top backup at either MIKE or SAM, and has the ability to play WILL, since that is what he played when he first came into the league, though he wasn't very good at it.

So, my initial reaction was that we won't be drafting a SAM-backer in this draft. Webster appears to be set as the starter, and you have a top reserve in Winborn capable of covering that position in case of injury. And, as many know, SAM is generally the least valuable of the LB positions, though in our defense it has more value than most. Thus, I am taking MIKE and SAM-style LBs off my draft board until possibly late in the draft. Goodbye James Laurinaitis, Philip Wheeler, Ezra Butler, Shawn Crable, and Beau Bell.


But, we will need to pick up a pure WILL LB in the draft to develop to replace Ian Gold down the road, since, in my opinion, we have absolutely nobody that can replace an injury to Gold on our current roster. DJ or Winborn could probably cover in a pinch, but that would be a trainwreck.

Gold's value to this team lies in his versatility. He is basically asked to play safety at times dropping into man and zone coverage. We've seen that he is an effective blitzer off the edge when the team allows him to do so, which is not often enough, but more often as of late. And we've seen that the Broncos place more value at the WILL position in that type of versatility concerning coverage and blitzing, then in pure tackling ability. As evidenced by getting DJ, whom is a great tackler but terrible edge blitzer and coverage player, out of WILL as fast as they could, and bringing back Gold.

Therefore, it appears to me, that barring a Free Agent WILL backup signing, we must draft a pure WILL LB that excels in coverage, edge rushing, and overall versatility. This is essential, because as stated, if Gold were to get injured, we'd have no answer. And, as many know, his contract starts to jack up in value in 2009, so you generally want to train a possible replacement a season before he has to start incase Ian won't restructure, though I think he would.



So, the second question is now narrowed down to "Which WILL LB will we select in the draft and how much importance (i.e. round) do we place on such a player?"


If the team favors versatility, and I think they do, I believe an undersized guy like Ali Highsmith might be more enticing than a tackling machine like Keith Rivers. But I think a dynamic player like Dan Connor could be the most enticing since he can do everything and play any of the three LB positions. However, I don't think he'll fall outside the Top 15 picks and I think a team will peg him as a MIKE anyway.

Therefore, assuming we pick somewhere between 15-22, I don't believe Connor will be available and I don't think THIS team will invest that high of a selection in Keith Rivers. So, we'll go elsewhere with our 1st rounder, likely DT or Safety.

So moving to the middle of round two, I think Highsmith will still be available due to his size, and I think he will be our selection. If not, the only other possible WILL values at that point would be Xavier Adibi and Larry Grant, whom would also fit our versatility requirement. Adibi could well be gone, Grant could be a reach at that point.



So, there you go... By reaching a contract extension with reserve LB Jamie Winborn, I think it correlates into us passing on a LB in the 1st round and drafting Ali Highsmith in the 2nd round to provide depth at WILL, a special teams demon, and a future successor to Ian Gold that has the same type of talents this team apparently values at WILL, mainly coverage ability.



Denver's Projected Draft:

1) DT Frank Okam - Texas
2) LB Ali Highsmith - LSU
4) FS Eric Wicks - West Virginia
4) FB Peyton Hillis - Arkansas
5) DT BJ Raji - Boston College
5) WR/KR Kevin Robinson - Utah State
7) OT Pedro Sosa - Rutgers
7) CB Trey Brown - UCLA


All selections should be realistic in terms of placement in the draft. If you don't recognize a player, research them. All players fit the Broncos schemes and needs.

[Max Power]

I would love that draft. Ali Highsmith could be a real steal in round 2, I've read people comparing him to Ernie Sims. Winborn could be a good starter if called upon, and Highsmith is groomed to replace Gold. DJ is coming into his own at MLB and will be even better with a guy like Okam to take O-lineman off of him. What's not to like?

[D.J.55]

I dont think saying goodbye to Beau Bell, Phillip Wheeler and Shawn Crable is what we are going to do. All three of those players have played MIKE, SAM, and/or WILL. I know Beau Bell played WILL, and so did Wheeler. Crable played SAM and DE. And all of us know Shanny loves versatility. So I wouldnt be counting any of those guys out right now.

However I do agree that D.J. is right where he needs to be and thats in the MIKE role and I do agree that Nate has grown into SAM role. Gold to me has had a good year.

So for drafting a LB high in the first or second might not be that big of a priorty. But i do feel that we at least need to draft one.

Also Shanny only targets about 3 to 5 prospects in the first round anyway. I remember back to the 04 draft when we had a targetted Tommie Harris, Reggie Williams, Micheal Clayton, and D.J. Williams. The 05 draft Shanny didnt feel was very strong so he traded out. When the 06 draft came around Culter, Donte Whitner, and Laurence Maroney where the targets. And this past years draft was Moss, Justin Harrell, and Lawrence Timmons were on the wishlist.

I remember I was wanting Reggie Nelson last year. So Im interested in finding out who are the prospects Shanny has on top of his wish list.

I think Dan Connor will be one of them. But the others I dont know about. Maybe a Mike Jenkins of USF. Can play safety and corner.

Okam make sense at our pick but I think we have giving up on "beef upfront" and went to a more athletic front.

But all in all we wont know how we will draft until the draft gets here and I know Im already for it.

[Mat'hir Uth Gan]

I dont think saying goodbye to Beau Bell, Phillip Wheeler and Shawn Crable is what we are going to do. All three of those players have played MIKE, SAM, and/or WILL. I know Beau Bell played WILL, and so did Wheeler. Crable played SAM and DE. And all of us know Shanny loves versatility. So I wouldnt be counting any of those guys out right now.

However I do agree that D.J. is right where he needs to be and thats in the MIKE role and I do agree that Nate has grown into SAM role. Gold to me has had a good year.

So for drafting a LB high in the first or second might not be that big of a priorty. But i do feel that we at least need to draft one.

Also Shanny only targets about 3 to 5 prospects in the first round anyway. I remember back to the 04 draft when we had a targetted Tommie Harris, Reggie Williams, Micheal Clayton, and D.J. Williams. The 05 draft Shanny didnt feel was very strong so he traded out. When the 06 draft came around Culter, Donte Whitner, and Laurence Maroney where the targets. And this past years draft was Moss, Justin Harrell, and Lawrence Timmons were on the wishlist.

I remember I was wanting Reggie Nelson last year. So Im interested in finding out who are the prospects Shanny has on top of his wish list.

I think Dan Connor will be one of them. But the others I dont know about. Maybe a Mike Jenkins of USF. Can play safety and corner.

Okam make sense at our pick but I think we have giving up on "beef upfront" and went to a more athletic front.

But all in all we wont know how we will draft until the draft gets here and I know Im already for it.


Man, I agree with alot of what you said. Reggie Nelson sure would have been a nice pick last season especially in retrospect. Hopefully, Jarvis pans out.

And I know Shanahan will peg his guys again, but he's annually wrong in his talent evaluations. Clayton and Williams are 1st round busts. Maroney is a bust at this point. Timmons and Harrell are looking like busts. Generally, in the Top 20 picks, it shouldn't be hard to pinpoint the "cant-miss" players. Heck, a lot of us fans do it every single season. So, hopefully, out of the 4 guys Shanny will peg, he'll get lucky and dodge the 2 that are destined for busts.

Anyhow, I agree that Dan Connor will be on our list. I have little doubt of that. I just don't think he will still be around.



But back to my analysis...

The reason those LBs are removed from the equation is that they project to certain positions in the NFL. None of which are WILL. I'm sure those guys will all be good players, but not at a position we need. I really doubt Shanny wants to spend a Top 50 selection on a 3rd string MIKE or a backup SAM. I believe he wants an elite coverage LB, and none of those guys, outside of Connor, bring that to the table. So, they are dismissed, along with a WILL LB like Keith Rivers that is better used near the line of scrimmage.

I do agree that the team might not use a 1st day selection on a WILL, but barring a Free Agent signing, we have absolutely no depth at WILL. If Ian Gold gets hurt, who comes into play his quasi LB/S role? And with his contract about to start ballooning in 2009, I think it's imperative we draft a possible replacement a year in advance.

I really do think we take a WILL LB early in this draft to groom behind Gold, but most importantly to guard against injury and have a coverage LB in reserve.


As for not "beefing up" the D-line. I do disagree there. Our LBs need the beef to protect them. And our pass defense can't continue to suffer by us moving our safeties into the box to guard the run. Our DE's are finesse guys to a large degree. We really need the meat and potatoes in the middle to be an effective defense. I can't imagine for the life of me that we would or could change to a penetrating DT style defense. Not with our current personnel at LB and DE.

[D.J.55]

Man, I agree with alot of what you said. Reggie Nelson sure would have been a nice pick last season especially in retrospect. Hopefully, Jarvis pans out.

And I know Shanahan will peg his guys again, but he's annually wrong in his talent evaluations. Clayton and Williams are 1st round busts. Maroney is a bust at this point. Timmons and Harrell are looking like busts. Generally, in the Top 20 picks, it shouldn't be hard to pinpoint the "cant-miss" players. Heck, a lot of us fans do it every single season. So, hopefully, out of the 4 guys Shanny will peg, he'll get lucky and dodge the 2 that are destined for busts.

Anyhow, I agree that Dan Connor will be on our list. I have little doubt of that. I just don't think he will still be around.



But back to my analysis...

The reason those LBs are removed from the equation is that they project to certain positions in the NFL. None of which are WILL. I'm sure those guys will all be good players, but not at a position we need. I really doubt Shanny wants to spend a Top 50 selection on a 3rd string MIKE or a backup SAM. I believe he wants an elite coverage LB, and none of those guys, outside of Connor, bring that to the table. So, they are dismissed, along with a WILL LB like Keith Rivers that is better used near the line of scrimmage.

I do agree that the team might not use a 1st day selection on a WILL, but barring a Free Agent signing, we have absolutely no depth at WILL. If Ian Gold gets hurt, who comes into play his quasi LB/S role? And with his contract about to start ballooning in 2009, I think it's imperative we draft a possible replacement a year in advance.

I really do think we take a WILL LB early in this draft to groom behind Gold, but most importantly to guard against injury and have a coverage LB in reserve.


As for not "beefing up" the D-line. I do disagree there. Our LBs need the beef to protect them. And our pass defense can't continue to suffer by us moving our safeties into the box to guard the run. Our DE's are finesse guys to a large degree. We really need the meat and potatoes in the middle to be an effective defense. I can't imagine for the life of me that we would or could change to a penetrating DT style defense. Not with our current personnel at LB and DE.

Michael Clayton is starting to be a bust but in his rookie year he sure didnt. Reggie Williams is starting to come along. He does what 3 or 4 TD catches in the past four games. But up until this point he was a bust. I think Maroney needs to be in the rotation system like last year with Dillion. Lets just hope he's not tagged-teamed with Darren McFadden. Timmons and Harrell its still to early their career for me to call them a bust.

I would welcome Dan Connor with open arms. He'll probably be peg #1 on Shannys list. And if Shanny wants him bad enough he'll go get him.

I do agree that we will draft a LB but I think it wont be in the first 4 rounds. But if a top LB falls into our lap I could see Shanny taking him.

Well I dont think we will be running Bates defense anymore. So the call for 320+ pounders wont be as needed. I would have loved to see Bates system work here but I dont think it can. Look at what we have got rid of. Adams 350 gone, Burton 320 PS, Gordon 320 gone, Warren 325 traded, Kennedy 320 gone. now look at what we have added. Mallard 260, Carrington 260, Alvin 300, Thomas 300, Harris 305, Birdline 277. I know Birdline and Carrington are DEs. We've gone from Beef to Athletic and so far its proved better against the run then the Beef.

Now that doesnt mean that would stop us from drafting Okam if we feel his hearts in it and he's a top talent.

I dont think being more athletic up front would stop us from drafting a 320+ pounder but it doesnt stop us from drafting a 280+ pounder either.

[Mat'hir Uth Gan]

Michael Clayton is starting to be a bust but in his rookie year he sure didnt. Reggie Williams is starting to come along. He does what 3 or 4 TD catches in the past four games. But up until this point he was a bust. I think Maroney needs to be in the rotation system like last year with Dillion. Lets just hope he's not tagged-teamed with Darren McFadden. Timmons and Harrell its still to early their career for me to call them a bust.

I would welcome Dan Connor with open arms. He'll probably be peg #1 on Shannys list. And if Shanny wants him bad enough he'll go get him.

I do agree that we will draft a LB but I think it wont be in the first 4 rounds. But if a top LB falls into our lap I could see Shanny taking him.

Well I dont think we will be running Bates defense anymore. So the call for 320+ pounders wont be as needed. I would have loved to see Bates system work here but I dont think it can. Look at what we have got rid of. Adams 350 gone, Burton 320 PS, Gordon 320 gone, Warren 325 traded, Kennedy 320 gone. now look at what we have added. Mallard 260, Carrington 260, Alvin 300, Thomas 300, Harris 305, Birdline 277. I know Birdline and Carrington are DEs. We've gone from Beef to Athletic and so far its proved better against the run then the Beef.

Now that doesnt mean that would stop us from drafting Okam if we feel his hearts in it and he's a top talent.

I dont think being more athletic up front would stop us from drafting a 320+ pounder but it doesnt stop us from drafting a 280+ pounder either.


Good Post. You definitely know your stuff.

The only nitpick I have is basically just theoretical. We brought Bates here to run his scheme, but we didn't have the groceries to do it. Warren, for all his girth, is not a clogger, so he forced a trade. Gordan and Burton are no-names, basically fat men, with marginal talent. Contrary to what some people think, you can't just stick a fat dude in at NT and expect him to be good. You need the extremely rare talented fat dude. Frank Okam is such a dude in my opinion. Kennedy was just a bust because of his effort. He didnt have the heart to play in the NFL. I think Adams was let go because he just wasn't that effective.


I hear your stance. You are saying that they gave Bates' defense a shot, it didn't work, and now we are permanently going in a different direction, and therefore, do not need to draft Bates-type DTs.

My stance is that we scrapped Bates' defense this season due to the players not fitting the scheme, but with an offseason to focus on getting the last remaining pieces (DTs), we will return to Bates' scheme, which has been proven to work in the NFL, with a renewed emphasis on obtaining Bates-type DTs.


So, basically, I'm thinking we go out of our way to get the big AND talented DTs this offseason. We really only need one, but two would be ideal. So that we can run Bates' scheme, the sole reason we brought him here.

[D.J.55]

Good Post. You definitely know your stuff.

The only nitpick I have is basically just theoretical. We brought Bates here to run his scheme, but we didn't have the groceries to do it. Warren, for all his girth, is not a clogger, so he forced a trade. Gordan and Burton are no-names, basically fat men, with marginal talent. Contrary to what some people think, you can't just stick a fat dude in at NT and expect him to be good. You need the extremely rare talented fat dude. Frank Okam is such a dude in my opinion. Kennedy was just a bust because of his effort. He didnt have the heart to play in the NFL. I think Adams was let go because he just wasn't that effective.


I hear your stance. You are saying that they gave Bates' defense a shot, it didn't work, and now we are permanently going in a different direction, and therefore, do not need to draft Bates-type DTs.

My stance is that we scrapped Bates' defense this season due to the players not fitting the scheme, but with an offseason to focus on getting the last remaining pieces (DTs), we will return to Bates' scheme, which has been proven to work in the NFL, with a renewed emphasis on obtaining Bates-type DTs.


So, basically, I'm thinking we go out of our way to get the big AND talented DTs this offseason. We really only need one, but two would be ideal. So that we can run Bates' scheme, the sole reason we brought him here.

You know I never really thought of it that way. Like just putting the system to the side until the offseason. But the only thing is I dont see see us being able to get our hands on a big talented DT. An top DT in free agency will go top dollar and i dont think we have the funds to go after one. Okam might be one but I still question his heart. I put a "draft with caution" label on him.

But if are able to get our hands on a big talented DT(s) then I would have renewed faith in his scheme. My only question is who and for how much?

[JoRo]

After remembering your past offseasons MUG I can official declare that Okam is on my wish list this offseason :P


I shall post more when I get back from work tonight, just figured I would share that haha

[MindField]

First, excellent resigning, as he can effectively play any of the LB positions, even WILL in a pinch, which makes him about our only solid backup to Ian Gold. Obviously, he's the main backup at MIKE as well. And I'd imagine SAM to boot.


This signing suggests to me that Nate Webster will be remaining at SAM next season. This is because Winborn and Nate are very similar players, and there would be little reason to have two top reserves almost identical to themselves. And I think it's very telling that when DJ got nicked up, Nate didn't move over to MIKE, with Winborn moving to SAM. Instead Winborn replaced DJ, and Nate stayed put. I'm on board with Webster at SAM for the foreseeable future. He took a bit to get acclimated to the position, but has come on strong since our bye week.


This also impacts our draft to a degree as well, in essence, it effectively rules out taking a MIKE LB whatsoever, since we now have an elite starting MIKE, a very good reserve MIKE, and an emergency MIKE in Webster. So, DJ is a lock to stay at MIKE now, Nate is a lock to stay at SAM, and Winborn is our elite all 3 position LB backup, though he's definitely better suited for MIKE or SAM rather than WILL.


So, now the question becomes....which type of OLB do we focus on in the draft, and how much importance (i.e. round) do we place on such a player?


Again, Winborn projects as a top backup at either MIKE or SAM, and has the ability to play WILL, since that is what he played when he first came into the league, though he wasn't very good at it.

So, my initial reaction was that we won't be drafting a SAM-backer in this draft. Webster appears to be set as the starter, and you have a top reserve in Winborn capable of covering that position in case of injury. And, as many know, SAM is generally the least valuable of the LB positions, though in our defense it has more value than most. Thus, I am taking MIKE and SAM-style LBs off my draft board until possibly late in the draft. Goodbye James Laurinaitis, Philip Wheeler, Ezra Butler, Shawn Crable, and Beau Bell.


But, we will need to pick up a pure WILL LB in the draft to develop to replace Ian Gold down the road, since, in my opinion, we have absolutely nobody that can replace an injury to Gold on our current roster. DJ or Winborn could probably cover in a pinch, but that would be a trainwreck.

Gold's value to this team lies in his versatility. He is basically asked to play safety at times dropping into man and zone coverage. We've seen that he is an effective blitzer off the edge when the team allows him to do so, which is not often enough, but more often as of late. And we've seen that the Broncos place more value at the WILL position in that type of versatility concerning coverage and blitzing, then in pure tackling ability. As evidenced by getting DJ, whom is a great tackler but terrible edge blitzer and coverage player, out of WILL as fast as they could, and bringing back Gold.

Therefore, it appears to me, that barring a Free Agent WILL backup signing, we must draft a pure WILL LB that excels in coverage, edge rushing, and overall versatility. This is essential, because as stated, if Gold were to get injured, we'd have no answer. And, as many know, his contract starts to jack up in value in 2009, so you generally want to train a possible replacement a season before he has to start incase Ian won't restructure, though I think he would.



So, the second question is now narrowed down to "Which WILL LB will we select in the draft and how much importance (i.e. round) do we place on such a player?"


If the team favors versatility, and I think they do, I believe an undersized guy like Ali Highsmith might be more enticing than a tackling machine like Keith Rivers. But I think a dynamic player like Dan Connor could be the most enticing since he can do everything and play any of the three LB positions. However, I don't think he'll fall outside the Top 15 picks and I think a team will peg him as a MIKE anyway.

Therefore, assuming we pick somewhere between 15-22, I don't believe Connor will be available and I don't think THIS team will invest that high of a selection in Keith Rivers. So, we'll go elsewhere with our 1st rounder, likely DT or Safety.

So moving to the middle of round two, I think Highsmith will still be available due to his size, and I think he will be our selection. If not, the only other possible WILL values at that point would be Xavier Adibi and Larry Grant, whom would also fit our versatility requirement. Adibi could well be gone, Grant could be a reach at that point.



So, there you go... By reaching a contract extension with reserve LB Jamie Winborn, I think it correlates into us passing on a LB in the 1st round and drafting Ali Highsmith in the 2nd round to provide depth at WILL, a special teams demon, and a future successor to Ian Gold that has the same type of talents this team apparently values at WILL, mainly coverage ability.



Denver's Projected Draft:

1) DT Frank Okam - Texas
2) LB Ali Highsmith - LSU
4) FS Eric Wicks - West Virginia
4) FB Peyton Hillis - Arkansas
5) DT BJ Raji - Boston College
5) WR/KR Kevin Robinson - Utah State
7) OT Pedro Sosa - Rutgers
7) CB Trey Brown - UCLA


All selections should be realistic in terms of placement in the draft. If you don't recognize a player, research them. All players fit the Broncos schemes and needs.

Play the WILL 'in a pinch'?....heh heh....there are those around here that think Winborn could end up taking Gold's job.

If that happens, I will laugh out loud.

[Warhawk]

I liked your analysis, M.U.G., but I think the weak link in the assumptions is that Webster is the long-term solution at SLB. He'd be a solid backup, but I'm beginning to really dislike him as a starter.

[stnzed]

As far as the defensive front seven goes, I hope that none of the existing players under contract have any effect whatsoever on the 08 draft....There are just far too many flaws to over-look any position.

Same could be said for the safety position.

The switch to smaller, more athletic d-lineman hasn't improved the run defense (Save for the Chefs game) enough to rule out any possibility of Bates running his system in the future if they get the players he needs.

The fact is, the players that were brought in during the season are nothing more than stopgap players, they are hardly players you build a defense around....And, imo, aside from MAYBE Peterson, if the Broncos go into next season with these players playing a significant role, they will be another disaster.

I'm still hoping they beef up the line and continue to develope the Bates system, because I've had enough of the small, weak but athletic Denver Broncos that simply can not impose their will......

[NickTranOwnz]

Or we can deal with 6 or so more seasons of WLB grief and wait to draft my school's 5-star WLB stud, MANTI TE'O!

Come on, a JUNIOR (c/o 2009) from freakin HAWAII that is top 10 in the nation for his class, a FIVE STAR.

How can you guys not pass on him!?!?!?!

6 more years guys.

:D

But I like Ali Highsmith.

[Mat'hir Uth Gan]

Play the WILL 'in a pinch'?....heh heh....there are those around here that think Winborn could end up taking Gold's job.

If that happens, I will laugh out loud.


This is two threads now that you express some form of sentiment about hoping my observations are wrong so you can enjoy your jest at them.

I don't really understand that. But ok. Generally though, to poke fun at others' work, you ideally would have superior work of your own to showcase. Can you point me to some threads where you've attempted to make dynamic analysis and tie transactions and future organizational plans together? Since we are apparently at some sort of odd war with each other, I'd like to know your degree of intelligence and foresight by perusing any such threads you've made. If nothing else, I can post the silly little posts that say "I laugh, if you wrong, hahaha". Apparently those are fun to post.


As for Winborn, it's safe to say after last night's game that he has zero chance of being an answer at WILL LB. None.

[Mat'hir Uth Gan]

I liked your analysis, M.U.G., but I think the weak link in the assumptions is that Webster is the long-term solution at SLB. He'd be a solid backup, but I'm beginning to really dislike him as a starter.

I'm not going to champion Webster as the next great SAM LB. I think he's average to above average, and will other holes on this team more pressing, I think we can survive and even win with Webster at SAM.

He is still relatively young (30) and is under contract just one more year. So, there is the possibility we could extend him to be our SAM for the foreseeable future, but I'm not sure yet that's the way we should go.

I do feel comfortable starting him at SAM next season, which allows us to address the hole at WILL, which we will now experience 1st hand since Gold is apparently done for the year.

[Mat'hir Uth Gan]

As far as the defensive front seven goes, I hope that none of the existing players under contract have any effect whatsoever on the 08 draft....There are just far too many flaws to over-look any position.

Same could be said for the safety position.

The switch to smaller, more athletic d-lineman hasn't improved the run defense (Save for the Chefs game) enough to rule out any possibility of Bates running his system in the future if they get the players he needs.

The fact is, the players that were brought in during the season are nothing more than stopgap players, they are hardly players you build a defense around....And, imo, aside from MAYBE Peterson, if the Broncos go into next season with these players playing a significant role, they will be another disaster.

I'm still hoping they beef up the line and continue to develope the Bates system, because I've had enough of the small, weak but athletic Denver Broncos that simply can not impose their will......

Co-signed.

[Mat'hir Uth Gan]

Or we can deal with 6 or so more seasons of WLB grief and wait to draft my school's 5-star WLB stud, MANTI TE'O!

Come on, a JUNIOR (c/o 2009) from freakin HAWAII that is top 10 in the nation for his class, a FIVE STAR.

How can you guys not pass on him!?!?!?!

6 more years guys.

:D

But I like Ali Highsmith.


You're on probation with your Hawaii support for draft prospects after last year's touting of both Ikaika-Alama Francis, whom has been a massive disappointment in Detroit, and that Safety Leonard, that isn't even in the NFL now.

I'm kidding, but I don't forget that stuff.

[BroncoAV06]

Good stuff guys. The team is going to have to take that next step next year for things to turn around. Yes the injuries have hurt but at the same time we have all seen both lines struggle this year. A good draft class to infuse talent will be much needed at the right positions. We just can not count on another class of rookies saving us, players now are going to have to take that next step. I do think o-line has surfaced as an issue a bit but due to injuries you don't know if it would have been better or not.

LB seems like the postition that you can get the most impact from early, but a good DT would be nice to develope. I definitly would not mind a solid LB if one is available. Have to start early on some of my prospect looking to catch up to you guys!

[gyldenlove]

I don't know how the spiked the koolaid barrel you all drank from, but it is some pretty heavy stuff.

Webster sucks as a SAM linebacker. He is clearly too slow to play the outside, he consistently gets beat around the corner and he is a nonfactor in pass coverage. Being the SAM usualy lines up against a tight end pass coverage is pretty important and Webster is a HUGE! reason why tight ends have been walking all over us. He even gets blocked out of most run plays to the middle which is where he should shine.

DJ's speed and raw athletic ability is wasted in the middle, we need someone who is more intuitive and faster at diagnosing the play. His play has improved, but he often takes too long to identify the play and thus often plays catchup. His ability and speed would be MUCH better used on the outside.

With the Winborn resigning we have locked up a valuable special teamer and a decent backup. It has NO! and I repeat this for the hard of understanding, NO! effect on our draft.

Unfortunately without a borderline all-pro middlelinebacker Ian Gold has been exposed as nothing more than a mediocre athlete with little or no tackling skills.

We need at least 2 new starters for next season or will be embarrassed like this again.

The most likely reason they kept Webster at SAM when DJ went out is because it is almost always better to switch 1 position than 2.

[Mat'hir Uth Gan]

I don't know how the spiked the koolaid barrel you all drank from, but it is some pretty heavy stuff.

Webster sucks as a SAM linebacker. He is clearly too slow to play the outside, he consistently gets beat around the corner and he is a nonfactor in pass coverage. Being the SAM usualy lines up against a tight end pass coverage is pretty important and Webster is a HUGE! reason why tight ends have been walking all over us. He even gets blocked out of most run plays to the middle which is where he should shine.

DJ's speed and raw athletic ability is wasted in the middle, we need someone who is more intuitive and faster at diagnosing the play. His play has improved, but he often takes too long to identify the play and thus often plays catchup. His ability and speed would be MUCH better used on the outside.

With the Winborn resigning we have locked up a valuable special teamer and a decent backup. It has NO! and I repeat this for the hard of understanding, NO! effect on our draft.

Unfortunately without a borderline all-pro middlelinebacker Ian Gold has been exposed as nothing more than a mediocre athlete with little or no tackling skills.

We need at least 2 new starters for next season or will be embarrassed like this again.

The most likely reason they kept Webster at SAM when DJ went out is because it is almost always better to switch 1 position than 2.


Opinion noted and logged. I respectfully disagree whole-heartedly.

Williams, as evidenced by his coaches, his peers, and himself, is an elite MIKE LB, and will be there the rest of his career. That's already decided. And it's where his natural skills fit. For someone that has trouble "diagnosing plays" he's sure making a ton of plays in the backfield and racking up tackles at the line of scrimmage. He's also already a borderline Pro Bowl LB, and might even make it as such this season.

I dismiss that opinion as inherently flawed.



I disagree, but acknowledge your view on Nate Webster. I disagree on the particular run defense aspect. He's a pretty darn good tackler, and he is very good at blowing up blockers so other players can close down the play. He's bad in coverage, so I agree there, but you miss the fundamental understanding of our defensive scheme...

We drop into zone, basically cover-2, the vast majority of the time. Webster generally only chips the TE on the route, and then plays the line or short zone. He doesn't have to cover the TE in man. When we blitz, we'll swap Gold to the strongside, if he's not blitzing, and we'll let him man up on the TE. Generally, though, we are in a zone defense, and Webster always comes out on nickel downs until Gold was hurt.


Concerning Gold, I again, disagree. Yes, I understand he sometimes will dive and whiff on a tackle. He also has made over 70 tackles this season, that's not bad for a LB used extensively in coverage and away from the Line of Scrimmage.


Now, concerning your opinion that Winborn has no effect on the draft whatsoever. That's wrong as a matter of process. Simply resigning depth at LB means you don't have to draft it. Extending a player for multiple years suggests you think he's a longer term answer so you don't have to develop a younger guy. Now, could you argue that Winborn's extension has no impact on who we draft on the draft's 1st day? Yes. Though, as evidenced by this thread, I would disagree. But every extension has an effect on the draft, that's common roster mangement.