If We Take a 1st Round WR...

[Max Power]

who would you want? Granted, I know it's not the most popular option, but Denver might be forced to go in this direction if the top OT's they like are gone and trade talks to either move up or down never materialize or fall through. The 2 elite DT's likely won't be there either, so addressing arguably our 3rd biggest need, a legit #2 WR, might be in order. There could be some good value available with the likes of Kelly, Sweed, Thomas, Jackson, and others, and they're all quite different. What's your flavor? :cheers:

[BroncosTX77]

Sig says it all baby! :rockon:

[Ravage!!!]

I wouldn't be disappointed with Devin Thomas as well....

[TheJackal]

James Hardy FTW. But we sure as hell better not take him at 12. The guy is a monster though. At 6'5" him and Marshall would create one amazing tandem at WR, especially in the redzone. We could probably trade back to the late 20's to get him, he might even be there in the early 2nd. But yeah I say we trade back and pick up Hardy while also getting more picks. We could get some good value out of it by getting at least one 2nd and maybe even a few 3rds, which would definitely help.

Oh and DeSean Jackson is a sissy. He'll be thrown around like a rag doll in today's NFL.

[jhns]

If I had my choice at 12 and all of them where there, I would take Kelly. If Kelly was gone, I would take Sweed. Noone else in this draft has the potential that these two have. Both have good size and speed. Both make great catches.

As for Jackson. I don't see the value. He is only being rated so high because of the Hester affect. Since Hester is the best returner that there has been, I don't get why people think another is comming out right after him. It is definatly not worth a #12 IMO. The other poeple on the list are not even close to being worth a #12 and that is all i have to say for why I didn't pick them.

[Ravage!!!]

If I had my choice at 12 and all of them where there, I would take Kelly. If Kelly was gone, I would take Sweed. Noone else in this draft has the potential that these two have. Both have good size and speed. Both make great catches.



Sweed is SLoooow......

[Max Power]

Sweed is SLoooow......

He's decently fast for a guy his size but the problem I have with him is he doesn't separate well. He's tall and a good leaper though so he can make those tough catches with a defender breathing down his back, as he did often. He also has outstanding body control which allows him to adjust to difficult passes and make the catch. He's not my favorite of the bunch, but I wouldn't be opposed to him either.

[jhns]

Sweed is SLoooow......

Didn't he just run a 4.46 at the combine? I will show you how many people run 4.46 and I will guarantee you will see some fast deep threats when you see the list.

I watched him play and he outran some fast defenders. He outjumped defenders. He made some very good catches. I think you are just basing this on 40 time and I don't think you have a good idea of what is fast. To much talk about 4.3's in todays football. You might have seen this posted in another thread that was in this section.

4.3’s: 3/18 or 17%
Javon Walker; 1st Round, 2002; 4.38
Lee Evans; 1st Round, 2004; 4.39
Matt Jones; 1st Round, 2005; 4.37

4.4’s: 6/46 or 13%
Deion Branch; 2nd Round, 2002; 4.47
Andre Johnson; 1st Round, 2003; 4.40
Roy Williams; 1st Round, 2004; 4.48
Reggie Brown; 2nd Round, 2005; 4.45
Mark Clayton; 1st Round, 2005; 4.41
Greg Jennings; 2nd Round, 2006; 4.42

4.5’s: 7/60 or 12%
Antonio Bryant; 2nd Round, 2002; 4.57
David Givens; 7th Round, 2002; 4.56
Nate Burleson; 3rd Round, 2003; 4.51
Arnaz Battle; 6th Round, 2003; 4.58
Bernard Berrian; 3rd Round, 2004; 4.58
Jerricho Cotchery; 4th Round, 2004; 4.54
Marques Colston; 7th Round, 2006; 4.50

http://maxnfldraft.blogspot.com/2007...-40-times.html

I see people there that run 4.45-4.5 that are deep threats in the league. In fact, if you go look at 40 times, 4.5 and below is VERY fast. Just look at the players that run in that time range. Again, to much hype of 4.3's. I watched both Kelly and Sweed play. Neither had a problem outrunning people.

Also, another part that makes it a good speed is their size. A defender has to run a lot faster than them in order to keep up with the route AND get position because Sweed and Kelly will both outjump you. I think this is the biggest fact that people are overlooking, or fans I should say. When you have that kind of size, you don't have to run 4.25 to be fast. A defender only has to run as fast as a short receiver to keep up and get position. They have to run far faster to keep position on a tall guy. Both of these guys could be deep threats in this offense.

The best evidence of all of this would be Burleson and Colston. Both have made a living at being deep threats.

[jhns]

I should also say that receiver isn't my first choice in the draft. I still wouldn't mind taking Kelly or Sweed in the first since #12 should be a place to get a playmaker and not just an average guy.

My first choice right now would be tackle with what looks to be there at 12.

[Gr3yStreet]

Sweed could actually give Cutler an endzone target.

Our red-zone offense was pathetic last year, and if we cant help our RB's punch it in by drafting some lineman, we may as well give Cutler a big tall strong guy to jump above everyone and bring it down.

[Max Power]

Sweed could actually give Cutler an endzone target.

Our red-zone offense was pathetic last year, and if we cant help our RB's punch it in by drafting some lineman, we may as well give Cutler a big tall strong guy to jump above everyone and bring it down.

You mean like Marshall? Okay, sure.

But I would prefer someone who brings something more to the table. Someone who can stretch the field and burn even the fastest corners 1-on-1. You get opponents to respect the deep ball, and things became available underneath and the whole field opens up to your offense more.

[kratos_godofwar]

I would take Kelly over another prospect, he's a big target and has speed much like B-Marsh. He's not the sexy pick like Thomas or Jackson, but he will be a viable #2. We don't need to strecth the field too often, it's usually short passes then pick up YAC. However, any WR listed on the list other than Sweed will do for me.

[TheJackal]

Sweed could actually give Cutler an endzone target.

Our red-zone offense was pathetic last year, and if we cant help our RB's punch it in by drafting some lineman, we may as well give Cutler a big tall strong guy to jump above everyone and bring it down.

*whispers* James Hardy... :)

[Bowie Man]

I said Thomas but I like Kelly too. I hate to say bold statements about guys coming out but it would scare me really bad to have a 169 lb. WR out there.:salute:

[AC1]

I was largely torn between Kelly, Jackson, and Thomas, and ended up voting for Thomas (he seems to be a mix of the other two). I would be okay with either of the three. I'm a little wary of Sweed because of his injury history, and Hardy because of his character concerns.

All three have holes - Jackson's size and ability to stay healthy as a result, Thomas' rawness. Kelly's weakness is more the lack of return ability, which is something we need as well. The more I think about it though, I feel we can find a pretty good returner with a second-day pick. As a receiving threat, Kelly appears to be the most well-rounded and complete prospect and so if available, he would be my choice.

Of course, if all the DT and OT prospects are off the board, I would rather pick Mendenhall than any of the available WRs.

[Max Power]

What do y'all think of Early Doucet? I think he could be an ideal #2. Here's what Scott Wright wrote for him:

Great natural athlete...Has good size and a solid frame...Quick with a burst...Has excellent hands...Very strong and tough...Elusive and it is difficult to tackle him in the open field...Good vision and runs well after the catch...Terrific blocker...A hard worker...Has been a deep threat in college...Can also contribute as a return man.

[BroncosTX77]

Seriously though, if Denver doesn't draft a hybrid WR (WR/KR) then they are going to have to take a cb/kr which will make even more ppl upset.

Even if Denver passes on DeSean Jackson they must draft wr/KR in the draft somewhere or they haven't upgraded ST or the offense.

:salute:

[GridironChamp]

I don't pay attention to what the WRs game is because that is what you look at when going for your slot WR, not your #2 guy. When drafting a starting WR you look for the straight up BEST WR out there and I think its Kelly. I think Kelly is alot like Marshall, he has some speed but he isnt a burner, he's got good size but he isnt a converted WR from TE.

I'd rather see Bowe and Kelly, even though they have similar styles, rather than Bowe and Jackson, who is a downgrade from Kelly, just because he is faster.

If I was looking for a slot guy, then yes i would probably say Jackson because he could be a game breaker, and he wouldnt have to be as consistant. But playing my number two spots I'd go Kelly first easily, followed by Thomas. Then Hardy, then some 2nd and 3rd round WRs before Sweed and Jackson.

[BroncoSexyDaddy]

I would pick DeSean Jackson,he has a chance to take it to the house every time he touches the ball.Love that guy :rockon:

[kratos_godofwar]

What do y'all think of Early Doucet? I think he could be an ideal #2. Here's what Scott Wright wrote for him:

Great natural athlete...Has good size and a solid frame...Quick with a burst...Has excellent hands...Very strong and tough...Elusive and it is difficult to tackle him in the open field...Good vision and runs well after the catch...Terrific blocker...A hard worker...Has been a deep threat in college...Can also contribute as a return man.

Early is a good player, but not top 15 good. He can be had in the late 1st or 2nd maybe even the third. So I'd rather take my chances and see if he falls than to take him with the 12th overall.

[SBboundBRONCOS]

What do y'all think of Early Doucet? I think he could be an ideal #2. Here's what Scott Wright wrote for him:

Great natural athlete...Has good size and a solid frame...Quick with a burst...Has excellent hands...Very strong and tough...Elusive and it is difficult to tackle him in the open field...Good vision and runs well after the catch...Terrific blocker...A hard worker...Has been a deep threat in college...Can also contribute as a return man.

what happened to him, they once had him in the first round hes slipped quite a bit . . . . . bad 40 :confused:

id probably even rather have manningham or doucet over jackson

those too could be pretty good #2 receivers

[GridironChamp]

Aye, that is the wildcard...

Mario Manningham, want a game breaker look to the non-toothpick.

[Max Power]

what happened to him, they once had him in the first round hes slipped quite a bit . . . . . bad 40 :confused:

id probably even rather have manningham or doucet over jackson

those too could be pretty good #2 receivers

Doucet hasn't run the 40 yard dash, he skipped the combine tests and drills as he recovered from his hamstring injury. He'll run and do all the drills at LSU's Pro Day though which is this Wednesday. Mayock has him as his 2nd best WR (Devin Thomas is #1).

[SBboundBRONCOS]

Doucet hasn't run the 40 yard dash, he skipped the combine tests and drills as he recovered from his hamstring injury. He'll run and do all the drills at LSU's Pro Day though which is this Wednesday. Mayock has him as his 2nd best WR (Devin Thomas is #1).

hmmm seems strange i havent heard anyone talking about him, i thought hewas slipping,so with that straightened out i dont think i would take him at 12

like i said mario manningham in the 2nd sounds pretty good to me, kid just ran a 4.38 and 4.4 showing his combine was a fluke. i think he could be had with our 2nd rounder. but im torn because of how much depth at our most needed position DT could be had in the 2nd round. so hopefully we trade back or possibly even out of the first get a 2nd rounder and maybe a 3rd somehow

that to me would be ideal, the chances of it happening our not so ideal though its a really tough choice for me

[Max Power]

I'm kinda surprised Bennett hasn't got any votes, even though he's a 2nd or 3rd round pick, I just thought the Vandy homers and the Cutler-Bennett connection society might have stuffed the ballot at least a little. Oops, I might have spoke too soon. :P

[jhns]

I don't pay attention to what the WRs game is because that is what you look at when going for your slot WR, not your #2 guy. When drafting a starting WR you look for the straight up BEST WR out there and I think its Kelly. I think Kelly is alot like Marshall, he has some speed but he isnt a burner, he's got good size but he isnt a converted WR from TE.

I'd rather see Bowe and Kelly, even though they have similar styles, rather than Bowe and Jackson, who is a downgrade from Kelly, just because he is faster.

If I was looking for a slot guy, then yes i would probably say Jackson because he could be a game breaker, and he wouldnt have to be as consistant. But playing my number two spots I'd go Kelly first easily, followed by Thomas. Then Hardy, then some 2nd and 3rd round WRs before Sweed and Jackson.

This is what I think most of the Denver fans are to caught up in. They all are to interested in filling returner over receiver. If we are using the #12 to get a receiver, it had better be a guy that can dominate the #2 receiver position. He shouldn't be taken simply because he returns kicks.

Anyways, our problem with special teams is not at returner. We either have a horrible blocking system or we have players that can't block. Either way, it isn't the returner. Just look at Hixon while he was here and then RIGHT after he left. Not to mention, our coaching staff likes Hall better than Hixon and Hixon has already shown he is a good returner. So again, it isn't the guys we have returning kicks, it is the blocking. I'm not sure why everyone seems to think Hester does this on his own. I can guarantee he wouldn't have a third of his TD's if he was with our special teams unit.

You don't draft a return man at 12. That move would make this team pay for years.

[Max Power]

I think Jackson could dominate as #2 WR. So many people cite his lack of size but forget that plenty of undersized WR's have been successful in the NFL. He'll get a little heavier too because the team that takes him will want him to and he should be able to gain about 10-15 lbs. while keeping his speed and agility.

[BroncosTX77]

This is what I think most of the Denver fans are to caught up in. They all are to interested in filling returner over receiver. If we are using the #12 to get a receiver, it had better be a guy that can dominate the #2 receiver position. He shouldn't be taken simply because he returns kicks.

Anyways, our problem with special teams is not at returner. We either have a horrible blocking system or we have players that can't block. Either way, it isn't the returner. Just look at Hixon while he was here and then RIGHT after he left. Not to mention, our coaching staff likes Hall better than Hixon and Hixon has already shown he is a good returner. So again, it isn't the guys we have returning kicks, it is the blocking. I'm not sure why everyone seems to think Hester does this on his own. I can guarantee he wouldn't have a third of his TD's if he was with our special teams unit.

You don't draft a return man at 12. That move would make this team pay for years.

Give me a frikkin break! Hixon had 8 (count em 8) KR with the Giants. So what if he returned 1 for a TD. Without that return he wasn't any better than Martinez or Hall. Oh and Martinez returned a kick for a TD too! :goofy: That still doesn't discount the sorry ST blocking but cmon the returners on this team are pathetic at best. Even Shanahan has noted that. Shanahan has also been working in FA to get ST'ers. All these no namers signing are most likely going to contribute on ST.

[japfaff]

Hardy or Kelly are the only first round worthy receivers. To me the two players are very similoar....But I would take hardy cause he is taller ( I like the big receivers in the red zone), and his production was a little better.....But either one is a nice player

[berlownacyo7s]

I would pick DeSean Jackson,he has a chance to take it to the house every time he touches the ball.Love that guy :rockon:

me too. him or chris johnson.

[str8jacket]

I'd rather not burn a 1st round pick on someone who is going to get broken in half at one point in a season.

[BroncosTX77]

Mike Mayock just says that Malcolm Kelly has 2 bad knees and that there are some NFL teams that don't even have him on their boards period. He also says he expects Kelly to drop to the 2nd.

DeSean Jackson cons are he is not a Gym rat and he is small. Have to light a fire under his rear to get him in the weight room to workout.

Limas Sweed is too soft. He needs to grow a pair and learn how to get off the snap.

[Ravage!!!]

I never understood this argument that Kelly is "too much like Marshall", thus they wouldn't compliment one another...crap. FOr some reason, some people think that if you have a big target like Marshall, you must have a super 'fast' guy on the other side. Horse crap.

Here are some of the best Duo's in the NFL.

Isaac Bruce 6' 188lbs --- Tory Holt 6' 190lbs

Boldin 6'1" 217lbs --- Larry Fitzgerald 6'3" 226lbs

Roy Williams 6'3" 220lbs ----- Calvin Johnson 6'5" 235lbs

Houshmandzadeh 6'1" 199lbs --- Chad Johnson 6'1" 192lbs

Reggie Wayne 6' 198lbs --- Marvin Harrison 6' 185 lbs

NOTICE..... no runts :D

[VABronco37]

My thoughts on Devin Thomas http://forums.denverbroncos.com/showthread.php?t=113600

As for Malcom Kelly, Mike Mayock has been saying that Kelly can ONLY play in a West Coast Offense.
So he is pretty much out of the question for us.

As for DeShaun Jackson, I really like him, but I just really don't know about him.
Had a "good" season @ Cal and nice show out in both the combine and Pro Day, so got me.
I would rather go with a bigger WR like Devin Thomas or Limas Sweed but feel Sweed could be a better fit in a more passing offense.

[Ravage!!!]

My thoughts on Devin Thomas http://forums.denverbroncos.com/showthread.php?t=113600

As for Malcom Kelly, Mike Mayock has been saying that Kelly can ONLY play in a West Coast Offense.
So he is pretty much out of the question for us.


:confused: It does?

[BroncosTX77]

My thoughts on Devin Thomas http://forums.denverbroncos.com/showthread.php?t=113600

As for Malcom Kelly, Mike Mayock has been saying that Kelly can ONLY play in a West Coast Offense.
So he is pretty much out of the question for us.



Denver does run the West Coast Offense with emphasis on the run. Malcolm Kelly would be a good fit, except I fear he might be turning into a Javon Walker now.....

[duhyaj]

Beig a big Michigan fan I would love to see MAnningham becasue he has a lot of ability and potential for the future he really improved every year at Michigan

[VABronco37]

I've never looked at our system as a specific "West Coast System" since we do run well, the ball.
I looked more or our system being Single Back and I-Formation then really "West Coast".
As For Kelly, not on that band wagon and kinda think he is soft to be honest.

[Ravage!!!]

Denver does run the West Coast Offense with emphasis on the run. Malcolm Kelly would be a good fit, except I fear he might be turning into a Javon Walker now.....

although our pass-to-run ratio has always been right around 50%. So we are very balanced as far as that goes.

[Max Power]

Well now that it's being reported that Marshall's TV accident injured him more seriously than previously thought, does this make a 1st round WR more of a possibility?

[VABronco37]

Heard the samething on NFL Access.
Seems he almost cut through his inter arm.
And there have been alot of alterations to his story by himself and other people in the house.
Now he is saying he was "wrestling around" in his house with his buddies.
Didn't he slip and fall over some stuff the other day in the first story?...
I smell fish here......

[BroncosTX77]

Heard the samething on NFL Access.
Seems he almost cut through his inter arm.
And there have been alot of alterations to his story by himself and other people in the house.
Now he is saying he was "wrestling around" in his house with his buddies.
Didn't he slip and fall over some stuff the other day in the first story?...
I smell fish here......

you expected less?

[GridironChamp]

I never understood this argument that Kelly is "too much like Marshall", thus they wouldn't compliment one another...crap. FOr some reason, some people think that if you have a big target like Marshall, you must have a super 'fast' guy on the other side. Horse crap.

Here are some of the best Duo's in the NFL.

Isaac Bruce 6' 188lbs --- Tory Holt 6' 190lbs

Boldin 6'1" 217lbs --- Larry Fitzgerald 6'3" 226lbs

Roy Williams 6'3" 220lbs ----- Calvin Johnson 6'5" 235lbs

Houshmandzadeh 6'1" 199lbs --- Chad Johnson 6'1" 192lbs

Reggie Wayne 6' 198lbs --- Marvin Harrison 6' 185 lbs

NOTICE..... no runts :D


Thats what I'm saying... Especially when considering a starting WR how he plays makes not difference, how well he plays does. I'd rather see Marshall and Jackson than Marshall and Kelly being a Chiefs fan.

[Cugel]

I'll be calling for Shanahan to resign immediately if they take a WR in the first round! :brick:

[Max Power]

If Kelly has 2 bad knees I'm steering way clear of him.

[Max Power]

I'll be calling for Shanahan to resign immediately if they take a WR in the first round! :brick:

And I will laugh as your calls go unanswered.

[GridironChamp]

I think Jackson could dominate as #2 WR. So many people cite his lack of size but forget that plenty of undersized WR's have been successful in the NFL. He'll get a little heavier too because the team that takes him will want him to and he should be able to gain about 10-15 lbs. while keeping his speed and agility.

I think your wrong. I know there are some capable small WRs in the NFL, how many of them outta college were expected to be that good? (Santana Moss and Steve Smith mainly). Then now every year we have the talk, he's the next Smith, he's the next Moss over and over again. Guess what? Out of the 100's of "small WRs that were decent in college" you can only name two that should be starting in the NFL. I'd take my chance with the size.

[GridironChamp]

If Kelly has 2 bad knees I'm steering way clear of him.

I watched Kelly play alot this year since he played for a Big 12 school, and I had no clue he had a bad knee let alone two... So i'll leave you to that one.

[VABronco37]

Champ what do you think about Devin Thomas?....

[GridironChamp]

Champ what do you think about Devin Thomas?....

Probably going to be the second best WR out of this draft, but i never watched him play so i'm going off of what i've read and some highlights.

He runs very poor routes, but has alot of talent. Of course i'm high on some lower round guys, but they are more of sleepers and i'm not counting them really. I think Thomas will be alot better WR than Sweed, Jackson, and Hardy but not as good as Kelly. Unless of course Kelly's knees really are a problem.

Thomas has a chance to be the first WR taken if Kelly doesnt run at all before the draft. I cant argue against Kelly or Thomas really, i woulda liked Thomas to stay in college one more year to prove he wasnt a one year wonder though.

[Cugel]

And I will laugh as your calls go unanswered.


They'll go unanswered this year. But, Shanahan can't afford any more #1st round draft screwups. He's already on thin ice with Bowlen, no matter what Bowlen says. What's going to happen if his draft picks crap out and the Broncos go 8-8 and it doesn't look to Bowlen like they are improving? Think he won't throw Shanahan under the bus? This is "my business" he says. He's not going to be patient forever.

Taking DeShaun Jackson in the first round reminds me a lot of when they took CB Willie Middlebrooks. He was mediocre, but they thought he had other skills.

I could just see Shanahan blathering about how he thinks Jackson will be an elite KR/PR and then he winds up being nothing special and buried on the depth chart.

Then in two years he's released with no fanfare just like Darius Watts.

Shanahan's track record with drafting WRs is just horrible. Name ONE WR he's drafted other than Marshall who's panned out? And that was a fluke! (If it wasn't NO WAY would Marshall have been taken in the 4th round, he'd have been a top 10 pick if teams could have foreseen what he could do)!

[BroncosTX77]

I watched Kelly play alot this year since he played for a Big 12 school, and I had no clue he had a bad knee let alone two... So i'll leave you to that one.

Maybe if you go back 1 page you will notice Mike Mayock is saying this. This isn't some anonymous source like with what was going around about Dorsey.

Mike Mayock has his reputation on the line by saying this on TV. So I would think he researched this b4 going public with it.

:salute:

[Ravage!!!]

Its NOT A FLUKE

Thats like saying ANY player that works from the 4th round is a fluke.

There are only So many players taken in the draft. So if you watch, evaluate, and grade and then USE one of your few picks to take the player other than the THOUSANDS of other players available in the united states, then it is NOT A FLUKE that you took him. It means that it paid off, just like ALLL the players taken in the draft.

[GridironChamp]

Maybe if you go back 1 page you will notice Mike Mayock is saying this. This isn't some anonymous source like with what was going around about Dorsey.

Mike Mayock has his reputation on the line by saying this on TV. So I would think he researched this b4 going public with it.

:salute:

Mayock is a moron... Just like Kiper. :cheers:

They look for what will get them looks and lights, Kelly was unable to work out at the combine but nowhere, that i've looked, have knee problems been the reason

[Max Power]

They'll go unanswered this year. But, Shanahan can't afford any more #1st round draft screwups.

Taking DeShaun Jackson in the first round reminds me a lot of when they took CB Willie Middlebrooks. He was mediocre, but they thought he had other skills.

I could just see Shanahan blathering about how he thinks Jackson will be an elite KR/PR and then he winds up being nothing special and buried on the depth chart.

Then in two years he's released with no fanfare just like Darius Watts.

Shanahan's track record with drafting WRs is just horrible. Name ONE WR he's drafted other than Marshall who's panned out? And that was a fluke! (If it wasn't NO WAY would Marshall have been taken in the 4th round, he'd have been a top 10 pick if teams could have foreseen what he could do)!

DeSean has no lengthy history of injury like Middlebrooks and has no lingering problem like Watts had. Obviously there are concern whether he can hold up at his size in the NFL though. It's a high risk, high reward proposition with Jackson IMO. I do like his skills as a WR, to me he is better version of Ted Ginn Jr.

[Ravage!!!]

But if it doesn't work.. this 'high risk high reward ' pick turns into the fans screaming "There goes shanahan REACHING again".........

[BroncosTX77]

God after reading all the new info regarding Marshall's boneheaded McD's bag wrestling him to the ground and the extent of the injury, <sigh> :sad: :ugh: it's almost a forgone conclusion that DeSean wont be picked by Denver.

I seriously think WR is now #1 pick for Denver but now its between Devin Thomas and James Hardy.

I am heartbroken but I'll face reality. If dipstick didn't pull another boneheaded offseason flop, it would still be DeSean, but I am going to have to come to grips that now DSJ is off the radar. :hurt:

I yield. Y'all win. I will stick to DSJ as being best WR tho. :salute:

[Cugel]

Its NOT A FLUKE

Thats like saying ANY player that works from the 4th round is a fluke.

There are only So many players taken in the draft. So if you watch, evaluate, and grade and then USE one of your few picks to take the player other than the THOUSANDS of other players available in the united states, then it is NOT A FLUKE that you took him. It means that it paid off, just like ALLL the players taken in the draft.

It absolutely is a draft screwup in evaluating Brandon Marshall by the entire NFL. If teams knew he would be an elite WR and wind up one of the top 10 WRs in the league, which he's already well on the way to becoming, they would have taken him in the first round.

Right now, it's obvious he's better than the majority of the players taken in the first round.

There are certainly many players who were taken in later rounds who made god. But, nobody can take credit for them! If teams had known they'd do what they do, then they would have been drafted earlier.

The draft is a lot of guess-work. Outside OL where Shanahan has been able to find good players in the later rounds because he's not looking for the same kind of players other teams need, if a player slides that far and then winds up being a pro-bowl caliber player then something was wrong with the evaluation process.

Either he went to a smaller school, or he didn't have the physical tools other players did, but excelled mentally (think Rod Smith), or his school didn't use him properly (think T.D.), or he had some injury history or off-field problems that had teams question him (think Marcus Thomas or Randy Moss).

Shanahan himself pointed out that if he had any idea how good T.D. was going to be he wouldn't have waited until the 6th round to take him. And no other team would have let him slide that far either!

Same thing with Marshall. There's probably not one team in the NFL who would have let Marshall fall to the 4th round if they knew then what they know now.

Bottom Line: I don't see how Shanahan can take much credit for drafting Marshall. He took a crap-shoot on a player and it paid off.

It's like claiming brilliance if you hit the lotto! :laugh:

[aberdien]

I never understood this argument that Kelly is "too much like Marshall", thus they wouldn't compliment one another...crap. FOr some reason, some people think that if you have a big target like Marshall, you must have a super 'fast' guy on the other side. Horse crap.

Here are some of the best Duo's in the NFL.

Isaac Bruce 6' 188lbs --- Tory Holt 6' 190lbs

Boldin 6'1" 217lbs --- Larry Fitzgerald 6'3" 226lbs

Roy Williams 6'3" 220lbs ----- Calvin Johnson 6'5" 235lbs

Houshmandzadeh 6'1" 199lbs --- Chad Johnson 6'1" 192lbs

Reggie Wayne 6' 198lbs --- Marvin Harrison 6' 185 lbs

NOTICE..... no runts :D

Actually Holt, the Johnsons, and Marvin Harrison are all pretty fast. :fight:

But I've warmed up to DeSean Jackson a bit and wouldn't mind him.

[VABronco37]

Mayock is a moron... Just like Kiper. :cheers:

I'll listen to Mayock any given day of the week compared to Kiper....lol

[Max Power]

Mayock and Kiper are both awesome.

[GridironChamp]

If you liked overhyped pretty boy, i went to a big school kinda player then yes im sure Mayock and Kiper are your guys... for Football players opt to the internet for more accurate/unbiased opinions. :cheers:

[kratos_godofwar]

Maybe if you go back 1 page you will notice Mike Mayock is saying this. This isn't some anonymous source like with what was going around about Dorsey.

Mike Mayock has his reputation on the line by saying this on TV. So I would think he researched this b4 going public with it.

:salute:

Ever heard of smoke blowing, he probably heard this from several coach/gm's. They're saying this to get him to drop. Unless Mayock and his doctors examined him themselves, it's all smoke. Mayock isn't as realiable as Mortenson/Schefter/Clayton. Those are the three guys I take seriously.

[GridironChamp]

Ever heard of smoke blowing, he probably heard this from several coach/gm's. They're saying this to get him to drop. Unless Mayock and his doctors examined him themselves, it's all smoke. Mayock isn't as realiable as Mortenson/Schefter/Clayton. Those are the three guys I take seriously.

On TV, ya they are better because they arent looking for the spotlight like Mayock and foolish Kiper.

[aberdien]

On TV, ya they are better because they arent looking for the spotlight like Mayock and foolish Kiper.

Word. Schefter, Clayton, and Mortenson are the best.

[Max Power]

Ever heard of smoke blowing, he probably heard this from several coach/gm's. They're saying this to get him to drop. Unless Mayock and his doctors examined him themselves, it's all smoke. Mayock isn't as realiable as Mortenson/Schefter/Clayton. Those are the three guys I take seriously.

Well, there has to be a reason why Kelly didn't work out at the combine or his pro day, maybe the knee concerns are legit. nfldraftscout.com cites the reason why he skipped the combine was an injury to his right quad, so there appears to be smoke to this fire. Are you implying that they are wrong and Mayock is just a puppet for those conspiring GM's?

[Mat'hir Uth Gan]

If we *have* to take a 1st Round WR, and I suppose it just became more likely due to Brandon Marshall's injury, then the only guy *I* would want at #12 is James Hardy.

Marshall has to recover from nerve damage, and when I hear that, all I can think about is Darius Watts and his "claw". I think Marshall returns healthy, but there is a risk he does not. So, if I'm the GM, I have to go into this draft thinking I may need a #1 WR prospect, not just a #2 or slot guy.

That removes DeSean Jackson. Malcolm Kelly has health issues. Limas Sweed is more of a #2. Devin Thomas is interesting, but he pales in comparison to Hardy.

Hardy destroyed college with insane production for multiple years. He is extremely athletic and has the size and speed to be a dominant top WR in the NFL. Nobody else in this draft has his size, speed, and production.

He's my #1 guy. I still hate drafting WRs in the first 3 Rounds. I feel it's too risky of a position to draft that early. But Hardy is the only guy I feel comfortable in taking as a future #1 WR. I think he's an absolute lock to be extremely good in the NFL. I can't say that about any other WR.

I like several guys in the slot position, but I don't draft slot until Round 4. And I think we need a #1 type talent now. James Hardy at #12 Overall, if Chris Williams is gone, makes a ton of sense to me.

[elevation INC]

If we *have* to take a 1st Round WR, and I suppose it just became more likely due to Brandon Marshall's injury, then the only guy *I* would want at #12 is James Hardy.

Marshall has to recover from nerve damage, and when I hear that, all I can think about is Darius Watts and his "claw". I think Marshall returns healthy, but there is a risk he does not. So, if I'm the GM, I have to go into this draft thinking I may need a #1 WR prospect, not just a #2 or slot guy.

That removes DeSean Jackson. Malcolm Kelly has health issues. Limas Sweed is more of a #2. Devin Thomas is interesting, but he pales in comparison to Hardy.

Hardy destroyed college with insane production for multiple years. He is extremely athletic and has the size and speed to be a dominant top WR in the NFL. Nobody else in this draft has his size, speed, and production.

He's my #1 guy. I still hate drafting WRs in the first 3 Rounds. I feel it's too risky of a position to draft that early. But Hardy is the only guy I feel comfortable in taking as a future #1 WR. I think he's an absolute lock to be extremely good in the NFL. I can't say that about any other WR.

I like several guys in the slot position, but I don't draft slot until Round 4. And I think we need a #1 type talent now. James Hardy at #12 Overall, if Chris Williams is gone, makes a ton of sense to me.




i echo those sentinments, and its funny since marshall's injury came to light more and more people feel interested in hardy, even though he was brought to attention by dream awhile back and people said no way they prefer djax, i had to laugh that people would want djax over a guy like hardy.



not only does hardy at 12 make a ton of sense if we can get a o-line, but he would be a beast opposite marshall, and open our redzone pass game immensely

[jhns]

not only does hardy at 12 make a ton of sense

How does it make a ton of sense to take Hardy at 12? He is not going to be anywhere near 12 on draft day. It would be a HUGE reach with that pick.

Kelly and Sweed are the only two receivers worth a #12. If we somehow get to trade back, then it would make sense to take Hardy or Jackson. Neither of those two are worth a #12 though. You don't pick a returner in the first round and like I said, Hardy is not a top 15 talent.

That being said. I am likeing the idea of waiting until the second to take a receiver if we want one badly. Kelly will most likely be gone. There are so many receivers in this class that there is a very good chance we will get great value in the second.

[elevation INC]

How does it make a ton of sense to take Hardy at 12? He is not going to be anywhere near 12 on draft day. It would be a HUGE reach with that pick.

Kelly and Sweed are the only two receivers worth a #12. If we somehow get to trade back, then it would make sense to take Hardy or Jackson. Neither of those two are worth a #12 though. You don't pick a returner in the first round and like I said, Hardy is not a top 15 talent.

That being said. I am likeing the idea of waiting until the second to take a receiver if we want one badly. Kelly will most likely be gone. There are so many receivers in this class that there is a very good chance we will get great value in the second.





your right the value for reciver is good, with regards to hardy at 12. hardy is a version of marshall, in every aspect. i like kelly but he has injury history, and sweed is no different than hardy, if people actually did research on a guy and didnt just go off what others say they would see that hardy's production far outweighed, kelly and sweed. hardy also is faster than sweed, and i dont like that kelly is holding off on working out. untill he works out i will stay with hardy. if kelly works out before the draft and puts up numbers then i would be willing to consider him at 12.



but i would rather take hardy at 12 than djax.


get this the most recent mock i have seen has hardy being taken at 21 by tampa and djax being taken by dallas at 28



hardy if we had to reach for a reciver as insurance for marshall, and a #2 makes tons of sense to me especially when i get to watch cbs from other teams figure out how to cover to brandon marshalls when they had problems with 1 last year:smug:

[Mat'hir Uth Gan]

How does it make a ton of sense to take Hardy at 12? He is not going to be anywhere near 12 on draft day. It would be a HUGE reach with that pick.

Kelly and Sweed are the only two receivers worth a #12. If we somehow get to trade back, then it would make sense to take Hardy or Jackson. Neither of those two are worth a #12 though. You don't pick a returner in the first round and like I said, Hardy is not a top 15 talent.

That being said. I am likeing the idea of waiting until the second to take a receiver if we want one badly. Kelly will most likely be gone. There are so many receivers in this class that there is a very good chance we will get great value in the second.


I think he's easily the top WR in this draft. He's proven that with his collegiate production and Combine workouts. The knock on Hardy, when people thought he would be a LATE 1st or early 2nd is that he would run in the mid-high 4.5s and show no quickness.

Then he went to the Combine, after telling everyone they were wrong, and proved them wrong with a 4.4 40 and solid times in both the 20yard shuttle and 3 Cone drills.

So, it's common sense. You take the most consistent and productive college WR in this draft (outside of Hawaii's program). You combine rare height, hands, and athleticism, and you find out the guy runs much faster then you thought....obviously he moves up quite a bit. Especially when the other potential top WRs, are falling down a bit. Sweed's been hurt and ran slower. Adarius Bowman is really out of the mix now. DeSean Jackson measured in much smaller then expected. Early Doucet has timed poorly. Malcolm Kelly has been avoiding workouts and might have knee issues. And then the only other guy that could go in the 1st Round is a one year wonder with above average WR size and speed, in Devin Thomas.

James Hardy trumps all of those guys now that he's proven his athleticism and speed.

[GridironChamp]

I think he's easily the top WR in this draft. He's proven that with his collegiate production and Combine workouts. The knock on Hardy, when people thought he would be a LATE 1st or early 2nd is that he would run in the mid-high 4.5s and show no quickness.

Then he went to the Combine, after telling everyone they were wrong, and proved them wrong with a 4.4 40 and solid times in both the 20yard shuttle and 3 Cone drills.

So, it's common sense. You take the most consistent and productive college WR in this draft (outside of Hawaii's program). You combine rare height, hands, and athleticism, and you find out the guy runs much faster then you thought....obviously he moves up quite a bit. Especially when the other potential top WRs, are falling down a bit. Sweed's been hurt and ran slower. Adarius Bowman is really out of the mix now. DeSean Jackson measured in much smaller then expected. Early Doucet has timed poorly. Malcolm Kelly has been avoiding workouts and might have knee issues. And then the only other guy that could go in the 1st Round is a one year wonder with above average WR size and speed, in Devin Thomas.

James Hardy trumps all of those guys now that he's proven his athleticism and speed.

James Hardy is proven to be soft. He will be bumped in the NFL, and he will just take it like the small kid in school that knows there is nothing he could do... only sad thing is that Hardy COULD do something, he just NEVER EVER DOES. I've seen Hardy shut down my physical CBs because he refuses to use his size physically. Going for the ball he is great, too bad though, that in the NFL he wont be able to just use his size to catch everything. He will actually have to get more than 1cm in front of the CB... something he failed to do throughout his whole college career.

He has to learn better techniques... problem his, he didnt have the right kind of attitude to do that at Indiana, and nothing has led anyone to believe differently in the NFL.

Straight end speed is different than quickness... Hardy majorly lacks quickness.

Thomas - 10 yard: 1.47 __ 20 yard: 2.50
Hardy - 10 yard: 1.56 __ 20 yard: 2.58
Jackson - 10 yard: 1.53 __ 20 yard: 2.52
Sweed - 10 yard: 1.53 __ 20 yard: 2.62
Manningham - 10yard: 1.50 __ 20 yard: 2.56

Hardy, clearly, possess the least amount of quickness, even compared to Sweed. Sure, if running 40 yards straight down the field he might have speed... cutting and planting he isn't very quick. Throw that in with a soft WR, you dont have as high of a prospect that people hype him up to be.

I think Hardy is better and will be better than Sweed and Jackson... but not as good as Kelly, Thomas, Manningham, and some later round guys.

[Mat'hir Uth Gan]

James Hardy is proven to be soft. He will be bumped in the NFL, and he will just take it like the small kid in school that knows there is nothing he could do... only sad thing is that Hardy COULD do something, he just NEVER EVER DOES. I've seen Hardy shut down my physical CBs because he refuses to use his size physically. Going for the ball he is great, too bad though, that in the NFL he wont be able to just use his size to catch everything. He will actually have to get more than 1cm in front of the CB... something he failed to do throughout his whole college career.

He has to learn better techniques... problem his, he didnt have the right kind of attitude to do that at Indiana, and nothing has led anyone to believe differently in the NFL.

Straight end speed is different than quickness... Hardy majorly lacks quickness.

Thomas - 10 yard: 1.47 __ 20 yard: 2.50
Hardy - 10 yard: 1.56 __ 20 yard: 2.58
Jackson - 10 yard: 1.53 __ 20 yard: 2.52
Sweed - 10 yard: 1.53 __ 20 yard: 2.62
Manningham - 10yard: 1.50 __ 20 yard: 2.56

Hardy, clearly, possess the least amount of quickness, even compared to Sweed. Sure, if running 40 yards straight down the field he might have speed... cutting and planting he isn't very quick. Throw that in with a soft WR, you dont have as high of a prospect that people hype him up to be.

I think Hardy is better and will be better than Sweed and Jackson... but not as good as Kelly, Thomas, Manningham, and some later round guys.


You're failing to take into account his size, reach, etc...

THAT's what makes him so impressive, that he can compete with all these other smaller, lighter guys, and still is much bigger. If you measure his quickness against a 5'7, 170 lb guy straight up, then yeah, it's not overly impressive. When you take into account he's 6'5 and 220lbs, then it's impressive.

He also destroyed all of them in career college production. The game tape does not lie. And he's one of the stronger WRs. You don't score 10+ TDs every season without being physical in the red zone. Jump balls require a lot of positioning and body banging.

I'm pretty confident as the draft approaches, we'll hear alot more about Hardy being a Top 15 pick. It's entirely too obvious not to happen.

And, Hardy is on record as saying he will spend more time in the film room stuyding and getting better then anyone else. His drive to be the best is second to none.

Combine his size, with his athleticism, with his production, with his strength, and his motivation and drive? Superstar.

[kona bronco]

Neither. We can get bennett if we pick up a third or marcus monk in the 4th or fifth.

[jhns]

Didn't Hardy play against pretty poor competition? I do not get why you would compare his production to those that played against good defenses. He is not a top 15 talent. He also has to show a lot more than good combine numbers to be considered the best receiver in this draft.

[BroncosTX77]

Didn't Hardy play against pretty poor competition? I do not get why you would compare his production to those that played against good defenses. He is not a top 15 talent. He also has to show a lot more than good combine numbers to be considered the best receiver in this draft.

here is who James Hardy played against for his career and the stats. You be the judge.

http://web1.ncaa.org/d1mfb/playerDetail.jsp?yr=2007&org=306&player=82

[jhns]

here is who James Hardy played against for his career and the stats. You be the judge.

http://web1.ncaa.org/d1mfb/playerDetail.jsp?yr=2007&org=306&player=82

Like I said, he didnt really play against any top defenses. Unless I am missing something. Then again, I don't follow every college team in the country, so some of them may be rated well. If you look at the schedule, it is not a hard one though.

[GridironChamp]

You're failing to take into account his size, reach, etc...

THAT's what makes him so impressive, that he can compete with all these other smaller, lighter guys, and still is much bigger. If you measure his quickness against a 5'7, 170 lb guy straight up, then yeah, it's not overly impressive. When you take into account he's 6'5 and 220lbs, then it's impressive.

He also destroyed all of them in career college production. The game tape does not lie. And he's one of the stronger WRs. You don't score 10+ TDs every season without being physical in the red zone. Jump balls require a lot of positioning and body banging.

I'm pretty confident as the draft approaches, we'll hear alot more about Hardy being a Top 15 pick. It's entirely too obvious not to happen.

And, Hardy is on record as saying he will spend more time in the film room stuyding and getting better then anyone else. His drive to be the best is second to none.

Combine his size, with his athleticism, with his production, with his strength, and his motivation and drive? Superstar.


Overrated.

That is the word for this kid...

No, his quickness does not impress me, despite his size. His size does, however, impress me a ton. Makes him the "on paper" favorite in this draft but there is a reason he hasn't been at the top... He doesnt play physical enough, he might hype up his attitude but he exercises it poorly.

Actually in college, if your 6'5" 220lbs you wont need much positioning to outjump a CB when the highest competition you played is/was Illinios and Penn. St. If he can get some technique behind his skills he has a chance to be an animal... but as of right now im not sold he can and/or will get the technique.

IDK, Hardy is one of the prospects in this draft you either like or dislike. I'm int he dislike area right now, but I'm not so far in the dislike that my mind couldnt change.

[GridironChamp]

Like I said, he didnt really play against any top defenses. Unless I am missing something. Then again, I don't follow every college team in the country, so some of them may be rated well. If you look at the schedule, it is not a hard one though.

It's not hard, its not the easiest schedule in DiA.

Illinois and Penn ST. were decent teams, but not known for great D's or great cornerback play, but they are at least respectable teams.

And actually looking more into it...He struggled against better defensive teams: Michigan, Wisconsin, and Ohio St.

[Cutler2007]

I think this draft is really shaping up to have a top tieeir WR fall to us in the 2nd round. At one time I thought Devin Thomas would be that guy, but he is a rising player and will go 1st round now. I do not see more than 3 of the top 5 going in the first round at this time.

[GridironChamp]

I think this draft is really shaping up to have a top tieeir WR fall to us in the 2nd round. At one time I thought Devin Thomas would be that guy, but he is a rising player and will go 1st round now. I do not see more than 3 of the top 5 going in the first round at this time.

Second round in lower you still got Doucet, Caldwell, Manningham, Bennet, Nelson, Franklin, ect...

This WR class has no stud (besides Kelly IMO) but it's very deep for quality guys.

[Cutler2007]

Second round in lower you still got Doucet, Caldwell, Manningham, Bennet, Nelson, Franklin, ect...

This WR class has no stud (besides Kelly IMO) but it's very deep for quality guys.

Which is why I think some team will pass on WR late 1st round and target those other in the late 2nd.

My number one option is to trade down in the first or out of it. I think the 2nd round is huge with talent.

[kratos_godofwar]

What I wouldn't do for Bowe right now, I really wished we had gone after him last year. Too bad, he's a stud for the Chiefs. The guy that best resembles him is Hardy, but I don't want Hardy at 12.

Right now, there are no receivers worthy of the number 12 pick besides Jackson and Thomas. But I wouldn't take them either considering they are both on the smaller side. With Marshall's future in question, we can't risk getting a speed guy without a true number 1. That leaves Kelly and Sweed, but what's the point in getting them if we are going to pass on Jackson and Thomas. So, right now. Our best option is to trade down, pick up an extra third or second and draft Bennent or Manningham within that extra pick.

Don't cha just love the draft. It's killing me, but it's so much fun to speculate and make baseless assumptions. This could be one of the funnest drafts ever, or one of the most heart-breaking drafts ever for Broncos fans. I can't wait, only 1 month away.

[Broncoballa2684]

after what has happend to b marsh i think were gonna have to take a WR in the 1st now.