Crabtree vs. Heyward-Bey

[KWHIT97]

With the latest screw up by Brandon Marshall he is probably facing another suspension and his welcome here in Denver might be wearing a little thin.

So, with this in mind I really think a WR is a possibility at 12!

So, who would you take and why?

Crabtree or Heyward-Bey

With Crabtree's setbacks at the combine and the possibility of him not being able to run before the draft there is a slight chance he gets to pick 12. Heyward-Bey tore it up at the combine and looks like a legit stud, though I think 12 is a bit of a reach on him!

I wanna know which guy Broncos-nation likes more.

Please no "neither, we need defense" replies. I know this, you know this but it has already been proven that McDaniels is gonna go Outside the box so Reciever could be the pick!

Who should it be?

[SBboundBRONCOS]

bey, we already have crabtree on out team in marshall i believe . . . even if he gets suspended

but bey would give us a hybrid type receiver hes huge has AMAZING speed and good hands

i think he would do great on this team with the other 2 players around him

[elevation INC]

With the latest screw up by Brandon Marshall he is probably facing another suspension and his welcome here in Denver might be wearing a little thin.

So, with this in mind I really think a WR is a possibility at 12!

So, who would you take and why?

Crabtree or Heyward-Bey

With Crabtree's setbacks at the combine and the possibility of him not being able to run before the draft there is a slight chance he gets to pick 12. Heyward-Bey tore it up at the combine and looks like a legit stud, though I think 12 is a bit of a reach on him!

I wanna know which guy Broncos-nation likes more.

Please no "neither, we need defense" replies. I know this, you know this but it has already been proven that McDaniels is gonna go Outside the box so Reciever could be the pick!

Who should it be?



well do you want the best hands in the draft or the best 40 time.....i personally would take crabtree if we were forced to decide beteween the 2....



however the key indgridents to being a succsesful NFL reciver out the gates are route running, ability to beat press coverage and sepeartion ability. speed and catching follow behind those first 3.


personally i would take a look at Jarret Dillard, Mike Thomas, or Brandon Gibson in the 2nd-3rd rd. because those 3 do all 5 things flawlessly. they are built to succede as rookies. athletic talent doesnt mean crap if you cant run routes, seperate or beat press. eddie royal ended up being a very good WR because he could do all of those things flawlessly as well. those are the things you want to watch for and look for. not 40 times/stats/production/school/height/weight etc....

I also would take hakeem knicks or maclin in the first rd over heyward bey in a heartbeat.

[expatRick]

If I'm choosing between those two to replace Marshall it has to be Crabtree. It's the difference between drafting an athlete and drafting a football player.

[Botan]

I highly doubt Crabtree drops to 12, but anything can happen.


If he does, Crabtree needs to be a Bronco.

[BRINGBAKPLUMMER]

Heyward-Bey is a mediocre receiver with great speed. Think Troy Williamson. Crabtree and Hakeem Nicks are both WAY better than him. Maclin is better than him too.

[Botan]

Heyward-Bey is a mediocre receiver with great speed. Think Troy Williamson. Crabtree and Hakeem Nicks are both WAY better than him. Maclin is better than him too.

I would love Hakeem Nicks in round 2.

[expatRick]

Heyward-Bey is a mediocre receiver with great speed. Think Troy Williamson. Crabtree and Hakeem Nicks are both WAY better than him. Maclin is better than him too.

I was thinking Ashley Lelie.

[Cutler2007]

Crabtree has better hands, toughness, blocking, route running, and just overall better knowledge of routes and playing WR.

Bey has better speed

[elevation INC]

Heyward-Bey is a mediocre receiver with great speed. Think Troy Williamson. Crabtree and Hakeem Nicks are both WAY better than him. Maclin is better than him too.

actually i dont buy the maclin hype he played in a spread offense. there is no doubt he is a playmaker in the return game and some deep routes, but he is very raw as a reciever overall. he doesnt seperate well, he runs horrednous routes, and he has trouble beating press coverage.....teams would be stupid to take him in rd 1, because he will be nothing more than a mediocre reciever next year with good return skills and the ability to break a reverse for a TD. you draft that stuff at pick 12 or even in the first rd in my opinion.....


My personal opinion of how the top ten WR's should go is as follwos but then again its just opinion.



1. Michael Crabtree
2. Hakeem Nicks
3. Kenny Britt
4. Brandon gibson
5. Mike Thomas
6. Heyward-Bey
7. Percy Harvin
8. Jeremy Maclin
9. Brian robiskie
10. Jarret Dillard



As for next years top 5 in recieving production(not to include injuries of course)......in order....

1. Brandon gibson
2. Mike thomas
3. Michael Crabtree
4. Hakeem nicks
5. Brian robiskie

[pipes]

actually i dont buy the maclin hype he played in a spread offense. there is no doubt he is a playmaker in the return game and some deep routes, but he is very raw as a reciever overall. he doesnt seperate well, he runs horrednous routes, and he has trouble beating press coverage.....teams would be stupid to take him in rd 1, because he will be nothing more than a mediocre reciever next year with good return skills and the ability to break a reverse for a TD. you draft that stuff at pick 12 or even in the first rd in my opinion.....


My personal opinion of how the top ten WR's should go is as follwos but then again its just opinion.



1. Michael Crabtree
2. Hakeem Nicks
3. Kenny Britt
4. Brandon gibson
5. Mike Thomas
6. Heyward-Bey
7. Percy Harvin
8. Jeremy Maclin
9. Brian robiskie
10. Jarret Dillard



As for next years top 5 in recieving production(not to include injuries of course)......in order....

1. Brandon gibson
2. Mike thomas
3. Michael Crabtree
4. Hakeem nicks
5. Brian robiskie

As opposed by the pro-style offense that Texas Tech plays? (Crabtree) :confused::P

[elevation INC]

As opposed by the pro-style offense that Texas Tech plays? (Crabtree) :confused::P

good point, but crabtree runs better routes, can seperate well, beats press well, catches amazingly well, produces well etc.


my point is the differences bewteen the 2 in those offenses, a spread offense doesnt give a WR very much chance to prove his overall reciving ability other than speed.......

Crabtree proved he was well rounded in that type of offense, maclin did not......

[broncos SB2010]

Kenny Britt or Brian Robiskie would be my choices (round 2) and Kenny Mckinley in round 3 or 4. I'm still pulling for OLB Clint Sintim in round 2.

[rbagcfab]

Brian Robiskie is a high character guy and will be a better pro then both of those guys!

[str8jacket]

good point, but crabtree runs better routes, can seperate well, beats press well, catches amazingly well, produces well etc.


my point is the differences bewteen the 2 in those offenses, a spread offense doesnt give a WR very much chance to prove his overall reciving ability other than speed.......

Crabtree proved he was well rounded in that type of offense, maclin did not......

There's not much of a difference at all between the offenses. Crabtree just proved he was better, plain and simple.

Anyway, I'll take Hakeem Nicks. Thanks

[KWHIT97]

Brian Robiskie is a high character guy and will be a better pro then both of those guys!


Buckeyes fan eh?

[BroncosTX77]

Here is a decent article on DHB.....

http://walterfootball.com/mattblog.php

Posted Feb. 25, 2009

The DHB Evaluation

One of the most annoying things to me about today's media and the draftnik world is every little thing is scrutinized and analyzed. We love the NFL Draft so much we feel like every little piece of the puzzle we can muster will lead to an expert analysis.

I have a very different view about measurements at the NFL Combine.

If you expect a linebacker to run a 4.55 and he runs a 4.52, then nothing changes. He did what you expected him to do. Why should his stock suddenly be on the rise?

If you expect a tight end to run a 4.85, and he runs a 4.88, then nothing changes. He did what you expected him to do. Why should his stock suddenly be on the rise?

If you expect Darrius Heyward-Bey to run a very low 4.3, and he does exactly that (4.30), then nothing changes. He did precisely what we expected him to do. Why should his stock suddenly be on the rise?

However, in today's knee-jerk media in which beat writers have never studied NFL Draft theory in their life, they will suddenly buy into the rise and fall of draft stocks based on measurements in which they had no projections. Most draftniks are no different.

No one has ever questioned DHB's athleticism. We knew it was elite. We knew he was exceptionally quick.

The concerns go unchanged for me. Of the two game tapes I have of Maryland (thanks to my old-school VHS recorder), he totaled only six catches. This is not enough of a sample size for me to evaluate him with my own eyes.

Because the NFL Draft analysts on television (other than Mike Mayock and Mel Kiper) are positive 99 percent of the time - scared to call a prospect a bust and be wrong - you will never hear about the great 40 receivers with mediocre production who busted or did not live up to expectations in the NFL:

Ted Ginn, Jr.
Craig "Buster" Davis
Chad Jackson
Troy Williamson
Donte' Stallworth
Ashley Lelie (inflated numbers in run n' shoot)
Michael Westbrook
Johnny Lam Jones


I am not suggesting Heyward-Bey will be a bust in the NFL. He is one of my most difficult evaluations in the past three years I have been scouting. I am simply showing you the other side of the coin. Heyward-Bey being a productive receiver in the NFL is by no means guaranteed. He could completely bust; he could be a star. I really have no idea, but I am approaching his evaluation with a conservative mindset.

Teams must do their homework in terms of DHB's work ethic, hands, route running and love for the game. Then, and only then, will they have a good idea of how he will turn out in the NFL.

To make a knee-jerk reaction and say he is suddenly a top-20 pick based on a 40 time when he did not answer any questions about his production or mental makeup, is to say the least, amateur.

Even so, I have a hard time finding a spot for him in the top 20.

Oakland might take him since Al Davis LOVES elite speed. DHB is a dark horse there, but I still feel they would take Jeremy Maclin even if Michael Crabtree were on the board. Seven is an extremely high pick to invest in a receiver with mediocre production.

San Francisco has bigger fish to fry than at the receiver position. Buffalo has Lee Evans, James Hardy, and they like Steve Johnson. No chance he goes to Denver. Washington already has young wideouts in Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly. New Orleans doesn't need him. Houston might want another deep threat. San Diego has Chris Chambers and Vincent Jackson. The Jets are a possibility. I feel like Chicago will be targeting a reliable possession receiver and go CB, DE, or OT at 18. Tampa is a possibility, but I have a hard time seeing Mark Dominik take such a risk. DHB has a low probability to be a Lion.

In the top 20, I see only two teams with a decent chance of drafting DHB (Houston and NY Jets) and two dark-horse teams (Oakland and Tampa).

Based on my calculations, DHB does not have a very good chance of being a top-20 pick. In fact, I do not see any more than two wideouts going in the top 20. Teams might like Hakeem Nicks, Kenny Britt or Jeremy Maclin more than DHB.

Once again, I preach to not buy into the hype. If you refrain from buying into hype and maintain a consistent opinion on these prospects, then you are already winning half the battle in talent evaluation.

[BroncosTX77]

And Similar Article with Crabtree:

Posted Feb. 24, 2009

Crabtree Not Bust-Proof

One of the biggest criticisms I have of football analysis on television is that it's way too positive and poorly researched by all of the "experts."

The "elite" receiver in this years' draft is Texas Tech's Michael Crabtree. You already knew this, but I am going to take you into some draft research you simply are not getting on ESPN or the NFL Network.

It is obvious to me which analysts do their research and which do not - and by research I do not mean reading news or Internet clippings. I am not going to call anyone out, but will just present my point of view to set everything in perspective.

I have studied NFL Draft history as if my life depended on predicting these prospects.

Occasionally, players bust because they do not have size. Some players make a huge impact in the league despite their size. Some quarterbacks overcome a weak arm, and some never get a chance in the NFL simply because they lack the talent. Some players with questionable intangibles became cornerstones for their franchises, and others were never worth drafting in hindsight.

Wide receivers can occasionally overcome a lack of speed, and sometimes they can flat out bust.

America loves an underdog. We know this. America also falls into the ESPN hype, a la the Reggie Bush-Mario Williams saga in 2006.

Michael Crabtree is said to have had very questionable speed in separating from defensive backs. His 40 is potentially in the mid-to-high 4.5 range.

This would not be the first time the media pumped up a receiver with questionable speed. The media and most draftniks make Crabtree out to be the next Jerry Rice. According to some, he has a zero-percent chance of busting.

I am not saying I hate Crabtree. His top-8, 4.5-star grade will stick no matter what he runs at his Pro Day in Lubbock. I think he is a talented receiver, but I do think there is a possibility he could bust.

All you are being fed from the media is Crabtree is a no-bust type player. No chance that happens according to the consensus opinion.

When a receiver has questionable speed, there are certain players brought up into EVERY discussion: Jerry Rice, Anquan Boldin, Larry Fitzgerald, Chad Johnson, etc. It's as if every receiver with questionable speed will overcome it.

My research says that is not the case.

If you say every receiver with questionable speed can make it in the NFL, then you have absolutely no credibility. The problem is these draft analysts on television never take the devil's advocate stance and say, "You know what, there have been hundreds to thousands of receivers that tried to make it in the NFL and simply couldn't because they lacked the speed."

You never hear about the mid-to-late round and free agent players that never made it in the league with bad speed, or even bad size.

Here is my list of players that have busted in the NFL with bad timed speed and questionable game speed when they were prospects:

Troy Edwards (1999)
Peter Warrick (2000)
Jabar Gaffney (2002)
Bryant Johnson (2003)
Reggie Williams (2004)
Michael Clayton (2004)
Rashaun Woods (2004)
Braylon Edwards (2005) - Not a total bust, but has not lived up to expectations
Mike Williams (2005)
Maurice Stovall (2005)
Dwayne Jarrett (2007)


It is not like there has ever been a player with all of the ESPN-Internet hype that did not bust in the NFL. There were not many people that questioned the draft picks of JaMarcus Russell, Alex Smith, Pac Man Jones, Cedric Benson, Reggie Bush, David Carr, Tim Couch, etc.

People feel like there is no way the prospects they love will not bust. Even I realize I will get some of my projections dead wrong. It's impossible to avoid.

However, I am not going to sit here and just buy into the Internet-Crabtree hype. I think he is a very talented player, but he is a talented player who could potentially not live up to expectations in the league.