1st Round Mock Draft - Updated

[broncofansd]

With the news of Zach Thomas signing with The Chiefs and Byron Leftwich signing with Tampa Bay that the 1st Round is going to look alot different than most people have thought.


There are also rumors of Brady Quinn getting traded for a mid 1st Round Pick. My guess is Detroit. I am going to project this in this draft.

National Football Post "Josh Freeman of Kansas State is hot right now for a lot of teams. I had one personnel man tell me that he really believes Freeman will be a top-10 pick. Stafford, Mark Sanchez and Freeman might all be top-10 picks. "


http://www.lionsgab.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/nfl-draft.jpg



1. Detroit Lions ---------------------Jason Smith Tackle Baylor
2. St Louis Rams---------------------Eugene Monroe - lost Orlando Pace.
3. Kansas City-----------------------Brian Orakpo- OLB Pass Rusher / just signed Zach Thomas ILB.
4. Seattle Seahawks-----------------Aaron Curry - LB BPA
5. Cleveland Browns------------------Michael Crabtree - WR
6. Cincinnati Bengals-----------------Andre Smith - Tackle
7. Oakland Raiders-------------------Jeremy Maclin - WR
8. Washinton-----------------------****TRADE****Washington trades it's 1st , 3rd and 7th round Pick to Jacksonville. Washington selects QB Matthew Strafford.
9. Greenbay-------------------------****TRADE**** Jets trade it's 1st , 3rd and 5th Rounder to Greenbay. The Jets select QB Mark Sanchez.
10. San Fransisco---------------------Josh Freeman - QB - Kansas St.
11. Buffalo----------------------------Robert Ayers - DE - Tennesee
12. Denver Broncos--------------------Bj Raji - NT - Boston College
http://bleacherreport.com/images_root/image_pictures/0262/0474/14178_feature.jpg
13. Jacksonville Jaguars----------------Chris Wells - RB - Ohio St. After cutting Fred Taylor the add Beanie Wells.
14. New Orleans-----------------------Malcolm Jenkins - CB - Ohio St.
15. Houston Texans--------------------Brian Cushing - LB - USC
16. San Diego--------------------------Tyson Jackson - DE - LSU - after letting Olshansky go they have a need at DE.
17. Greenbay Packers------------------Aaron Maybin - OLB - Penn St.
18. Denver Broncos--------------------Rey Maualuga - ILB - USC
http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2008/1229/ncf_g_maualuga2_576.jpg
Hard hitting LB not seen since Al Wilson.
19. Tampa Bay-------------------------Peria Jerry - DT - Ole Miss
20. Cleveland(via Brady Quinn)----------Everette Brown - OLB - Florida St.
21. Philadelphia Eagles------------------Knowshon Moreno - RB - Georgia
22. Minnesota Viking--------------------Darius Heyward Bey - WR - Maryland
23. New England Patriots----------------Clay Matthews jr - OLB - USC
24. Atlanta Falcons---------------------Evander Hood - DT - Missouri
25. Miami Dolphins----------------------Jarron Gilbert - DE - San Jose St. after letting Vonnie Holiday go Miami needs a DE.
26. Baltimore Ravens--------------------Kenny Britt - WR - Rutgers
27. Indianapolis Colts--------------------Percy Harvin - WR - Florida - Marvin Harrison was cut then need a WR.
28. Philadelphia Eagles-------------------Eben Britton - T - Arizonia
29. NY Giants----------------------------Hakeem Nicks - WR - North Carolina
30. Tennessee Titans--------------------Brian Robiskie - WR - Ohio St.
31. Arizonia Cardinals--------------------Donald Brown - RB - Conn
32. Pittsburg Steelers--------------------Eric Wood - C - Louisville



****This mock draft takes into account that Brady Quinn gets traded to Detroit(which I think would be a very smart move) and that both Washington and the NY Jets were very much interested in Cutler and want QB's.

[rpbrooks]

This is without a doubt one of the worst mocks I have ever seen. Way too much going on... you're banking on a lot of unlikely things.

:incomplete:

[Den615]

This is without a doubt one of the worst mocks I have ever seen. Way too much going on... you're banking on a lot of unlikely things.

:incomplete:

I actually think it is a pretty good mock. Quinn is going to be traded, and detroit would be a likely destination, and if Stafford falls that far there would certainly be teams trying to trade up to get him.

The trades are hard to predict, but this is just about as likely as any mock with trades I've seen

[broncofansd]

This is without a doubt one of the worst mocks I have ever seen. Way too much going on... you're banking on a lot of unlikely things.

:incomplete:


What is unlikely???

If you were Detroit and you could trade your 20th Pick for Brady Quinn and save MILLIONS and then draft Left Tackle with the 1st Pick. I think this is no brainer.

Here is a link of rumors.
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/2009/04/browns-looking-to-make-a-splash/
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/2009/04/notes-from-lombardi-sunday-edition/

[broncofansd]

I actually think it is a pretty good mock. Quinn is going to be traded, and detroit would be a likely destination, and if Stafford falls that far there would certainly be teams trying to trade up to get him.

The trades are hard to predict, but this is just about as likely as any mock with trades I've seen


Thank you. Trades are hard to predict but last year there were 5 trades in the 1st Round. I am sure this year will be the same.

[rpbrooks]

I actually think it is a pretty good mock. Quinn is going to be traded, and detroit would be a likely destination, and if Stafford falls that far there would certainly be teams trying to trade up to get him.

The trades are hard to predict, but this is just about as likely as any mock with trades I've seen

OK, fine, here are some glaring problems...

If Stafford falls to eight, how can the Jaguars trade with the Redskins instead of taking Stafford themselves? They need a quarterback a lot more than the skins.

Also can anyone find me a bit of evidence suggesting that San Fran likes Josh Freeman? He's way overvalued at that pick. If Sanchez is off the board at that point, which actually might be possible, they'll go after something else.

And there is no way that Raji falls to #12. Bank on it.

[Goatmaster]

1. no one in the nfl would be stupid enough to trade their 1st for quinn
2. everyone is saying now that orakpo is too stiff in coverage, no.3 is way too high for a one-dimensional linebacker
3. nfl teams have players visit to get some questions about the players answered, not because they will def draft them, andre smith did 19 reps without a shirt on, showing the world how fat and out of shape he is, bengals wont draft him
4. jaguars have alot of problems, running back is not one of them, and wells is not a cant miss talent
5. san diego is not dumb enough to take a weak, unmotivated, DE like jackson with no stats, workouts, or measurables that come close to justifying this idiotic selection. only a select few ignorant bronco fans are that pathetic.
6. again, no one in the nfl is stupid enough to trade their 1st for quinn
7. broncos have bigger needs than an ilb who cant cover. dj can play we all know that, larsen turned one of the worst run defenses in the nfl into a first class run defense against some of the leagues best running backs, and you want maualuga? a free lancing, overpersuing, cant wrap up or cover linebacker? im sick of this draft, peace out

[swankattack86]

Not going to happen, but i would love it for denver. :salute!:

[broncofansd]

Here is some of your answers.


National Football Post - " Josh Freeman of Kansas State is hot right now for a lot of teams. I had one personnel man tell me that he really believes Freeman will be a top-10 pick. Stafford, Mark Sanchez and Freeman might all be top-10 picks"

Josh Freeman invited to NFL DRAFT.

Lombardi reports he is hearing from multiple league sources that the Browns have a first round pick on the table for Quinn, but may be looking for more. Two teams are currently interested in Quinn’s services.

2 Teams willing to trade 1st Round Pick!!!!

[Den615]

1. no one in the nfl would be stupid enough to trade their 1st for quinn
There is already atleast one team offering a 1st for Quinn
2. everyone is saying now that orakpo is too stiff in coverage, no.3 is way too high for a one-dimensional linebacker
I agree, but he is still likely a top 5 pick, and the chiefs need a pass rushing OLB for their 3-4
3. nfl teams have players visit to get some questions about the players answered, not because they will def draft them, andre smith did 19 reps without a shirt on, showing the world how fat and out of shape he is, bengals wont draft him
Bengals have a huge need at tackle, and smith's stock really hasnt fallen that far. He is still likely a top 10 pick
4. jaguars have alot of problems, running back is not one of them, and wells is not a cant miss talent
I mostly agree with you, but stranger things have happened. If it was my mock they would take a reciever here
5. san diego is not dumb enough to take a weak, unmotivated, DE like jackson with no stats, workouts, or measurables that come close to justifying this idiotic selection. only a select few ignorant bronco fans are that pathetic.
San Diego has a huge need on the d-line, this is great value for Tyson Jackson, and unless Michael Oher is availible expect the Chargers to take the best 3-4 DE in the draft
6. again, no one in the nfl is stupid enough to trade their 1st for quinn
Read my comment on Quinn above
7. broncos have bigger needs than an ilb who cant cover. dj can play we all know that, larsen turned one of the worst run defenses in the nfl into a first class run defense against some of the leagues best running backs, and you want maualuga? a free lancing, overpersuing, cant wrap up or cover linebacker? im sick of this draft, peace out
They need a run stopping ILB, Andra Davis is a decent starter, but not the long term option. Spencer Larsen is good depth, but not a starter. He is smaller, slower, and less explosive than Maualuga

Sorry, you really dont know what you are talking about

[broncofansd]

Mark Schereff on ESPN said Denver should draft Rey Maualuga because every since Al Wilson got hurt , Denver hasn't had a hard hitting player to impose his will on the other team.


Maualuga looks like a bad azz in the pic above.

[Bowie Man]

If all of that insanity actually happened, there's no way we'd pass on Everette Brown for Rey Maualuga at 18.

[broncofansd]

If all of that insanity actually happened, there's no way we'd pass on Everette Brown for Rey Maualuga at 18.



Can you please explain to me how Everette Brown is much different from Elvis Dumervil besides 3 inches in height??? And how is E. Brown better than Elvis Dumervil????

[rpbrooks]

Here is some of your answers.


National Football Post - " Josh Freeman of Kansas State is hot right now for a lot of teams. I had one personnel man tell me that he really believes Freeman will be a top-10 pick. Stafford, Mark Sanchez and Freeman might all be top-10 picks"

Josh Freeman invited to NFL DRAFT.

Lombardi reports he is hearing from multiple league sources that the Browns have a first round pick on the table for Quinn, but may be looking for more. Two teams are currently interested in Quinn’s services.

2 Teams willing to trade 1st Round Pick!!!!



Provide a link? This doesn't look reputable and it certainly is a fringe resource and best.

[broncofansd]

Provide a link? This doesn't look reputable and it certainly is a fringe resource and best.


Your link sir:

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/2009/04/notes-from-lombardi-sunday-edition/


Michael Lombardi is on NFL network and has worked in the NFL for years. So he is as good a source as any , maybe better!!!

[housemouse]

Washington wont draft a QB...nevertheless trade up to get one...



Ayers before Brown?

[broncofansd]

Washington wont draft a QB...nevertheless trade up to get one...



Ayers before Brown?


Why was Washington willing to trade Jason Campbell and 2 - 1st Round Draft picks if they weren't interested in a QB???


Mike Mayocks called Robert Ayers the best defensive player in the draft and another scout said is The most NFL ready Defensive player in the draft.

So he will go before Everette Brown. Kiper says he isn't that thrilled with Brown and probably why he has us drafting him.

[swankattack86]

Why was Washington willing to trade Jason Campbell and 2 - 1st Round Draft picks if they weren't interested in a QB???


Robert Ayers is Mike Mayocks call for best defensive player in the draft and another scout said is The most NFL ready Defensive player in the draft.

So he will go before Everette Brown. Kiper says he isn't that thrilled with Brown and probably why he has us drafting him.

Dude watch how you word things, read over what you posted.

You basically just said:

"Robert Ayers is Mike Mayocks call for best defensive player therefor this has to be true. This also means just cause Mayock and kiper don't like brown he will fall out of the top 15"

Sounds silly a little bit?

[GridironChamp]

Washington won't want to trade up, IMHO.

I don't think Detroit will trade for Quinn, but it's possible... too much "if" to base
a mock on it though.

Jax. has no need for Wells.

I don't see NY trading up to take a QB IF Detroit already has one via a trade.

As usual, your basing everything off of the latest RUMORS. Get more realistic.

[myoung]

Can you please explain to me how Everette Brown is much different from Elvis Dumervil besides 3 inches in height??? And how is E. Brown better than Elvis Dumervil????

You have asked this a ton of times so I will go ahead and take a shot at it....

The three inches is a big deal. At 5'11 Doom is the shortest DE in the league. Transitioning to a 3-4 OLB, I still believe he will be the shortest OLB (rush backer specifically) in the NFL. Teams like to get a seal on the edge and then when the pass rush doesn't develop to stand up and try to knock down the pass. Doom doesn't do this well. He does nothing to cut down the passing lanes. The three inches, plus the additional wing span can be a big deal. How much of a big deal I do not know.... But it can't be ignored like you continue to do.

My bigger concern is that Doom showed up for post college season games out of shape. He has struggled with this at times since he has been a pro and has not recovered quickly from his injuries, they have lingered and seemed to impact him all last year. This indicates to me that he may have work ethic problems.

His 40 times and bench press results were similar to Brown but I believe he skipped his agility tests. That being said Brown did not test well in the three cone and 20 yrd shuttle either. Maybin and even English tested alot better than Brown in the more important tests for a DL. I dont' like Maybin because I think he plays way too small, but he seems to be very fast and put up good numbers in a big conference. I think he will struggle at the point of attack with OL.

After the combine most teams wrote Doom off as a 3-4 OLB; not because of his size or 40 time but I believe he skipped all of his agility tests and didn't show he could transition to the OLB position as many teams had hoped. His position tests went horribly. All of the 3-4 teams dropped him off of their radar. Then because of that they said he had to play 4-3 DE. He is the shortest DE in the league. He dropped like a rock and we got a steal where we drafted him. The big factor here which can't be quantified by a 40 time or bench press is that when teams worked him out in positional skills for the OLB in a 3-4 they felt he couldn't make the transition. Brown may have the same problems.

I have to agree with you that Brown's numbers do not stand out. Maybin has the more impressive numbers and when you factor English's size he has far more impressive numbers as well (my opinion of course). Barwin and Sidbury as second round prospects test much better as well.

In fact, Gilbert seems to have better results all the way around than Brown as well. I know he is not a OLB prospect but it may put into perspective Browns results. Brown's 40 time is near the top for DL prospects but his 3 cone and 20 yrd drop down to middle of the pack to bottom of the pack.

You want to know the difference I would say frame (the 3 inches) and possibly work ethic but I can't quantify that part of the statement. The bigger issue is that teams believe he can play the OLB; which they didn't with Doom.

The more I look at it I think I would prefer to have English over Brown at this point. He had a slightly slower 40 (from his pro day) but showed much better results in the shorter tests that matter more for a DL. I think he will be the better pro. I also really like Sidbury in the 2nd; he may end up being the best of the bunch. I don't like Barwin as much (I don't think he is as developed as the others and will take time, more of a bust factor).


I would have to say I am leaning towards English over Brown, at OLB and Gilbert over Jackson at DE..... Obviously my personal preference as most draft experts don't agree with me....

If Raji is off the board AND we can't trade down I could live with a first round draft of Gilbert and English. Both would be reaches but I think they would be worth it. I think they will both be big time players in the NFL.

My dream draft would be

Raji
Gilbert
English or Sidbury (whichever is available when we pick in the 2nd).

But I could live with

Gilbert
English
BPA between NT, S, CB, or RB..... Ron Brace, William Moore, Lois Delmas, Sean Smith, Donald Brown... Someone in this category that has dropped more than we expected.....

[broncofansd]

At OLB I would want -

1. Clay Matthews Has played LB in college and showed great hips and very fluid. 2nd on USC in Sacks. Probably easiest transition to NFL.


2. Robert Ayers Great size 6'3" 272lbs Pat Kirwan says he reminded him of Dwight Freeney. Still might take a little time.


3. Connor Barwin Played TE(so he knows routes) and DE over 10 Sacks but it might take a little time to be NFL ready.


4. Lawerence Sidbury Good size 6'3" 266lbs Very productive but also has the speed to compete in the NFL.


5. Larry English Very productive in college. Not very fast or fluid in drills. Alot of scouts say 4-3 DE. Will definetely take some time.

[Goatmaster]

1. no one in the nfl would be stupid enough to trade their 1st for quinn
There is already atleast one team offering a 1st for Quinn
2. everyone is saying now that orakpo is too stiff in coverage, no.3 is way too high for a one-dimensional linebacker
I agree, but he is still likely a top 5 pick, and the chiefs need a pass rushing OLB for their 3-4
3. nfl teams have players visit to get some questions about the players answered, not because they will def draft them, andre smith did 19 reps without a shirt on, showing the world how fat and out of shape he is, bengals wont draft him
Bengals have a huge need at tackle, and smith's stock really hasnt fallen that far. He is still likely a top 10 pick
4. jaguars have alot of problems, running back is not one of them, and wells is not a cant miss talent
I mostly agree with you, but stranger things have happened. If it was my mock they would take a reciever here
5. san diego is not dumb enough to take a weak, unmotivated, DE like jackson with no stats, workouts, or measurables that come close to justifying this idiotic selection. only a select few ignorant bronco fans are that pathetic.
San Diego has a huge need on the d-line, this is great value for Tyson Jackson, and unless Michael Oher is availible expect the Chargers to take the best 3-4 DE in the draft
6. again, no one in the nfl is stupid enough to trade their 1st for quinn
Read my comment on Quinn above
7. broncos have bigger needs than an ilb who cant cover. dj can play we all know that, larsen turned one of the worst run defenses in the nfl into a first class run defense against some of the leagues best running backs, and you want maualuga? a free lancing, overpersuing, cant wrap up or cover linebacker? im sick of this draft, peace out
They need a run stopping ILB, Andra Davis is a decent starter, but not the long term option. Spencer Larsen is good depth, but not a starter. He is smaller, slower, and less explosive than Maualuga

Sorry, you really dont know what you are talking about

1. a reporter not associated with the team said he heard it from someone else who he did not specify, you think that means it's written in stone?
2. even if the chiefs got zach thomas, they will still most likely get aaron curry, a good all-around linebacker unlike orakpo
3. maybe his stock hasnt fallen far in some circles of announcers and fans, but numbers as low as his show a huge lack of commitment, if anyone takes him top ten i will laugh my @$$ off at them, and keep laughing until he is out of the nfl in four years
4. i agree with you on that
5. watch tape of jackson, even in his highlights all the plays he makes are because of mistakes by the blocker, like going to block the wrong person or they stop moving their feet. if an nfl scout watches the tape and looks at his workouts they will not be impressed at all
6. quinn and a bunch of picks for a first, maybe. not quinn for a first straight up
7. larsen did more than enough to prove he is a high quality run stopper, shannahan was just to dense to see it, he can read plays much better than maualuga, and shuts down lanes instead of overpersuing to make lanes like maualuga

im not the one here who doesnt know what they are talking about

[dogman67156]

Why does everyone want LB's when that is probably the strongest part of the Denver defense??? The Broncos need BIG, MEAN defensive linemen and then dept in the secondary! The defensive backfield has 4 projected starters 30+ years old!!!
Another thing, if Washington or the Jets are thinking about trading up and getting Stafford or Sanchez, why not just give Cleveland a #1 fo Quinn and save the rest of those draft choices? Quinn is probably a better prospect than Stafford or Sanchez and has NFL experence. I think Orton may be better in the McDaniel system than any of the three of them!

[broncofansd]

Why does everyone want LB's when that is probably the strongest part of the Denver defense??? The Broncos need BIG, MEAN defensive linemen and then dept in the secondary! The defensive backfield has 4 projected starters 30+ years old!!!
Another thing, if Washington or the Jets are thinking about trading up and getting Stafford or Sanchez, why not just give Cleveland a #1 fo Quinn and save the rest of those draft choices? Quinn is probably a better prospect than Stafford or Sanchez and has NFL experence. I think Orton may be better in the McDaniel system than any of the three of them!


DJ is very good player but not dominate.
Andra Davis is good player but definetely not dominate.
Elvis Dumervil our OLB has never played the position.
Jarvis Moss our 1st Round Pick from 2007 so far sucks
Wesley Woodyard is very good LB that everyone thinks is too small
Spencer Larson is good but unproven so far

[dogman67156]

Good points but the front line can't stop anything and gives the opposition quarterback plenty of time to pick the secondary apart and if anyone goes down in the secondary of oldtimers, who is going to fill in? Another thing, if they draft one of these "DE/LB" combination players isn't that the same thing they have in Moss, Dumervil or Crowder? I have seen some of these mock drafts that has 2 linebackers drafted by Denver in the first round and 2 or 3 more in later rounds!
The defensive line should be first concern and a good safety to learn under Dawkins should be considered before we add to the over populated linebacking core. The free agent linemen they signed the last 2 months are nothing to brag about.

[myoung]

At OLB I would want -

1. Clay Matthews Has played LB in college and showed great hips and very fluid. 2nd on USC in Sacks. Probably easiest transition to NFL.


2. Robert Ayers Great size 6'3" 272lbs Pat Kirwan says he reminded him of Dwight Freeney. Still might take a little time.


3. Connor Barwin Played TE(so he knows routes) and DE over 10 Sacks but it might take a little time to be NFL ready.


4. Lawerence Sidbury Good size 6'3" 266lbs Very productive but also has the speed to compete in the NFL.


5. Larry English Very productive in college. Not very fast or fluid in drills. Alot of scouts say 4-3 DE. Will definetely take some time.

I have concerns about Matthews size compared to the others. I think he plays just under 240. I really think we need some players that bring a bigger physical game to the field. I personally like Sidbury and English the best on your list. I think they are the best combination of performance and size we need for the position.

Ayers is the biggest boom or bust project of them all. I will pass, especially since we already have 2 boom or bust options at the OLB position in Moss and Doom. Ayers always played to the level of his competition and didn't start until he was a senior (even though he was brought in as a top Prep prospect and given a chance to earn the start every single year). Too risky in my opinion. Ayers reminds someone of Freeney? Really? Freeney is a 230 DE that relys on speed to run past people. He is explosive and extremely fast. Ayers does not have that type speed but has better size for the position. He should hold up better against the run and have a better power game. If he doesn't I would have even more concerns about him. Ayers has lots of tackles for loss and little sacks.... Freeney has lots of sacks.... I think this is telling about what Ayers brings to the table. I don't like the comparison at all.

Ayers has move too far up the draft board to be a good value based on the risk (IMO of course).....

Barwin is very fast..... He got ten sacks this year because he is fast off of the edge. Just because he played TE does not mean he knows how to cover one. the change means he has great athleticism (and that he didn't work out as a top TE). I like his speed but he knows the least about playing on the D side of the ball of any of the prospects. I think he will take the longest to transition of any on your list. He needs to learn how to play the position. He won't be able to just run around everyone. I think he has the potential to be the workout warrior flop of this draft. Someone will probably take him late first round just because of his combine results......

[Bowie Man]

You have asked this a ton of times so I will go ahead and take a shot at it....

The three inches is a big deal. At 5'11 Doom is the shortest DE in the league. Transitioning to a 3-4 OLB, I still believe he will be the shortest OLB (rush backer specifically) in the NFL. Teams like to get a seal on the edge and then when the pass rush doesn't develop to stand up and try to knock down the pass. Doom doesn't do this well. He does nothing to cut down the passing lanes. The three inches, plus the additional wing span can be a big deal. How much of a big deal I do not know.... But it can't be ignored like you continue to do.

My bigger concern is that Doom showed up for post college season games out of shape. He has struggled with this at times since he has been a pro and has not recovered quickly from his injuries, they have lingered and seemed to impact him all last year. This indicates to me that he may have work ethic problems.

His 40 times and bench press results were similar to Brown but I believe he skipped his agility tests. That being said Brown did not test well in the three cone and 20 yrd shuttle either. Maybin and even English tested alot better than Brown in the more important tests for a DL. I dont' like Maybin because I think he plays way too small, but he seems to be very fast and put up good numbers in a big conference. I think he will struggle at the point of attack with OL.

After the combine most teams wrote Doom off as a 3-4 OLB; not because of his size or 40 time but I believe he skipped all of his agility tests and didn't show he could transition to the OLB position as many teams had hoped. His position tests went horribly. All of the 3-4 teams dropped him off of their radar. Then because of that they said he had to play 4-3 DE. He is the shortest DE in the league. He dropped like a rock and we got a steal where we drafted him. The big factor here which can't be quantified by a 40 time or bench press is that when teams worked him out in positional skills for the OLB in a 3-4 they felt he couldn't make the transition. Brown may have the same problems.

I have to agree with you that Brown's numbers do not stand out. Maybin has the more impressive numbers and when you factor English's size he has far more impressive numbers as well (my opinion of course). Barwin and Sidbury as second round prospects test much better as well.

In fact, Gilbert seems to have better results all the way around than Brown as well. I know he is not a OLB prospect but it may put into perspective Browns results. Brown's 40 time is near the top for DL prospects but his 3 cone and 20 yrd drop down to middle of the pack to bottom of the pack.

You want to know the difference I would say frame (the 3 inches) and possibly work ethic but I can't quantify that part of the statement. The bigger issue is that teams believe he can play the OLB; which they didn't with Doom.

The more I look at it I think I would prefer to have English over Brown at this point. He had a slightly slower 40 (from his pro day) but showed much better results in the shorter tests that matter more for a DL. I think he will be the better pro. I also really like Sidbury in the 2nd; he may end up being the best of the bunch. I don't like Barwin as much (I don't think he is as developed as the others and will take time, more of a bust factor).


I would have to say I am leaning towards English over Brown, at OLB and Gilbert over Jackson at DE..... Obviously my personal preference as most draft experts don't agree with me....

If Raji is off the board AND we can't trade down I could live with a first round draft of Gilbert and English. Both would be reaches but I think they would be worth it. I think they will both be big time players in the NFL.

My dream draft would be

Raji
Gilbert
English or Sidbury (whichever is available when we pick in the 2nd).

But I could live with

Gilbert
English
BPA between NT, S, CB, or RB..... Ron Brace, William Moore, Lois Delmas, Sean Smith, Donald Brown... Someone in this category that has dropped more than we expected.....

This is a very good explanation and I'd agree with everything, even English over Brown; but I'd also argue that we'd take Brown over Maualuga because OLB is a bigger need than ILB.

[Broncosinindy]

Mark Schereff on ESPN said Denver should draft Rey Maualuga because every since Al Wilson got hurt , Denver hasn't had a hard hitting player to impose his will on the other team.


Maualuga looks like a bad azz in the pic above.That is why 90% of Rey Rey fans like him if they knew anything about football they would know he is 1st round FOOLS GOLD. 2nd round ok First not a chance.

[Broncosinindy]

I have concerns about Matthews size compared to the others. I think he plays just under 240. I really think we need some players that bring a bigger physical game to the field. I personally like Sidbury and English the best on your list. I think they are the best combination of performance and size we need for the position.

Ayers is the biggest boom or bust project of them all. I will pass, especially since we already have 2 boom or bust options at the OLB position in Moss and Doom. Ayers always played to the level of his competition and didn't start until he was a senior (even though he was brought in as a top Prep prospect and given a chance to earn the start every single year). Too risky in my opinion. Ayers reminds someone of Freeney? Really? Freeney is a 230 DE that relys on speed to run past people. He is explosive and extremely fast. Ayers does not have that type speed but has better size for the position. He should hold up better against the run and have a better power game. If he doesn't I would have even more concerns about him. Ayers has lots of tackles for loss and little sacks.... Freeney has lots of sacks.... I think this is telling about what Ayers brings to the table. I don't like the comparison at all.

Ayers has move too far up the draft board to be a good value based on the risk (IMO of course).....

Barwin is very fast..... He got ten sacks this year because he is fast off of the edge. Just because he played TE does not mean he knows how to cover one. the change means he has great athleticism (and that he didn't work out as a top TE). I like his speed but he knows the least about playing on the D side of the ball of any of the prospects. I think he will take the longest to transition of any on your list. He needs to learn how to play the position. He won't be able to just run around everyone. I think he has the potential to be the workout warrior flop of this draft. Someone will probably take him late first round just because of his combine results......
Did someone just mention Vernon Davis? Vernon Gholston.... good points.

[Broncosinindy]

At OLB I would want -

1. Clay Matthews Has played LB in college and showed great hips and very fluid. 2nd on USC in Sacks. Probably easiest transition to NFL.


2. Robert Ayers Great size 6'3" 272lbs Pat Kirwan says he reminded him of Dwight Freeney. Still might take a little time.


3. Connor Barwin Played TE(so he knows routes) and DE over 10 Sacks but it might take a little time to be NFL ready.


4. Lawerence Sidbury Good size 6'3" 266lbs Very productive but also has the speed to compete in the NFL.


5. Larry English Very productive in college. Not very fast or fluid in drills. Alot of scouts say 4-3 DE. Will definetely take some time.

Im sorry SD but that was a horrible response dude. you have no rebutal?

[broncofansd]

My point on OLB is that I don't believe that Elvis Dumervil or Jarvis Moss can cover a RB (Sproles) or TE (Gates) for a Pass.


I think that Everette Brown , Robert Ayers , Larry English and even Brian Orakpo would have alot of trouble with this part of the game. I think Elvis Dumervil compares favorably to all these guys as far as production in college at DE and the NFL (11 Sacks in 2007)


I do like Clay Matthews the best at this position. He has played LB in college and is very fast 4.62 Combine and 4.55 Pro Day.


After that I like Connor Barwin and Lawerence Sidbury both have excellent speed.


I think Matthews , Barwin and Sidbury offer a different player than Dumervil



Elvis Dumervil------DJ Williams----Andra Davis----Clay Matthews


Would look pretty solid to me.


The knock of Brian Cushing is that at OLB he came off the field on Passing Downs at USC and he is faster than Brown , Orakpo , English , and Ayers.

[no-pseudo-fan]

That is why 90% of Rey Rey fans like him if they knew anything about football they would know he is 1st round FOOLS GOLD. 2nd round ok First not a chance.

I completely disagree. Rey is a mean SOB, that is saying a lot because you got to be a man to play this game. When there is a person that players fear, you know he is a bad man. He has not yet met his potential.

He is a much better pick than most players that will go first. DL is a crap shoot, so is QB, conversion OLB/DE are 2 to 3 year projects, and RB get hurt all the time.

Who does that leave? OL, MLB, and Secondary. We do not need OL, early in the first day at least, and Secondary is the least of our worries. We need impact at #12. Maualuga is IMPACT. I want impact at 18 too, but if we have instant impact at 12, 18 has time to develop. So if we take DL at 18 and 48, they more than likely will not start day one, and will take a little bit to develop into true NFL players.

[Atwnbroncfan]

1. no one in the nfl would be stupid enough to trade their 1st for quinn
2. everyone is saying now that orakpo is too stiff in coverage, no.3 is way too high for a one-dimensional linebacker
3. nfl teams have players visit to get some questions about the players answered, not because they will def draft them, andre smith did 19 reps without a shirt on, showing the world how fat and out of shape he is, bengals wont draft him
4. jaguars have alot of problems, running back is not one of them, and wells is not a cant miss talent
5. san diego is not dumb enough to take a weak, unmotivated, DE like jackson with no stats, workouts, or measurables that come close to justifying this idiotic selection. only a select few ignorant bronco fans are that pathetic.
6. again, no one in the nfl is stupid enough to trade their 1st for quinn
7. broncos have bigger needs than an ilb who cant cover. dj can play we all know that, larsen turned one of the worst run defenses in the nfl into a first class run defense against some of the leagues best running backs, and you want maualuga? a free lancing, overpersuing, cant wrap up or cover linebacker? im sick of this draft, peace out

That might be the dumbest comment i have seen on these boards ever. The run d wasnt that much better, and IF and thats a big if, it was bc of a rookie it was bc of Woodyard and not Larsen. Not to mention the run d wasnt improved. Larsen may have a chance to compete, but giving him the starting job and anointing him the savoir is just stupid.

[swankattack86]

Elvis Dumervil------DJ Williams----Andra Davis----Clay Matthews


Would look pretty solid to me.


.

I agree with what you said, We do needa OLB that can cover the TE and Rb. Thats why i would not mind drafting clay at 18. The line up you have set looks good.

Maybe something like this? (BJ is gone or we'd take him)

1 - Jackson
1 - Mathews
2- Sidbury
3 - Baker

I have sidbury and mathews so we have some depth, he does not have to be picked tho if we have mathews.

Or what are you thinking?

[myoung]

My point on OLB is that I don't believe that Elvis Dumervil or Jarvis Moss can cover a RB (Sproles) or TE (Gates) for a Pass.


I think that Everette Brown , Robert Ayers , Larry English and even Brian Orakpo would have alot of trouble with this part of the game. I think Elvis Dumervil compares favorably to all these guys as far as production in college at DE and the NFL (11 Sacks in 2007)


I do like Clay Matthews the best at this position. He has played LB in college and is very fast 4.62 Combine and 4.55 Pro Day.


After that I like Connor Barwin and Lawerence Sidbury both have excellent speed.


I think Matthews , Barwin and Sidbury offer a different player than Dumervil



Elvis Dumervil------DJ Williams----Andra Davis----Clay Matthews


Would look pretty solid to me.


The knock of Brian Cushing is that at OLB he came off the field on Passing Downs at USC and he is faster than Brown , Orakpo , English , and Ayers.


Here is the problem with your analysis of the position (in my opinion of course). A 3-4 OLB is more like a DE in a 4-3 than a WILL or SAM in a 4-3. You are expecting these guys to cover the RB and TE regularly. This will not happen. Take a look at Woodley and Harrison for the Steelers. They are not covering the RB and TE and in fact when they do drop back it is always to a position or a zone; not in man to man coverage. The man to man coverage has to fall to your ILB and Safeties in a 3-4. We won't draft a 3-4 OLB and expect him to cover a RB or a TE regularly or we would be wasting our pick...... IMO of course. We want players that can increase the pass rush and shut down the run.

The Steelers, Ravens, Dolphins, and others... Take a look at the size and skill sets of their OLB. You can open up the depth chart on ESPN.com or NFL.com. These teams are not targeting smaller fasters OLBs in the 3-4 to cover the backs and receivers.

A 3-4 OLB will drop back more than a 4-3 DE ever would but it is not their primary role; nor should it be the biggest factor in drafting one. We draft one that is a difference maker at and behind the line of scrimmage.

If we are going to go with Matthews, because he is smaller and can cover, then please put DJ at OLB and get a smashmouth ILB in here. Don't waste the pick on a smallish guy. Just my opinion of course.

Now you may look at Moss and say he hasn't held up well against the run. Keep in mind that was as the 4th guy on a DL. Now give him a true 3-4 and he is a different monster against the run. I think he and Doom will hold up much better against the run in a 3-4 configuration. Actually I think Dooms role will be best as a pass rushing specialist. Come in on passing downs and spell Moss and our new drafted OLB, or move inside to a DT position and rush from there. He has shown he is a major matchup problem on the inside, when we have used him there.

In a pass rushing situation we will probably go to one ILB and he will be our best cover guy/ that can blitz. For some teams this is actually a safety (Polumalu played this role for over half of the season last year). In our case I think our best candidate is Woodyard, but since we are paying DJ a ton I am sure he will get the call. The 3-4 OLB will rush the passer in the majority of cases and when they do drop back it should be expected to be in a zone or to cover another blitzing player (think Harrison's interception in the SB). In fact, in most of these sitations we will probabaly go with 4 down and get after the passer.

I am tired of being a small fast finesse team. Let's punch someone in the mouth. We will do that by adding size at the DL and OLB positions.


Regardless of my points above, the fact that Brown, English, Orakpo, and Ayers are pass rushing specialists should not cause us to run away. It should cause us to run towards...

If you want Matthews I would say move DJ (who is bigger, more proven, and just as fast) to OLB and bring in Rey Maluaga or Jasper Brinkley in to play ILB. I think this would make a bigger difference for our D.

[broncofansd]

Myoung Dj Williams is 6'1" 240lbs and you say Clay Matthews at 6'3" 240lbs is too small???

Doesn't make alot of sense.

link on DJ height / weight
http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=396


And to your point on OLB I disagree. James Harrison said that he had RB coverage on the play he scored the INT for TD against Arizonia. He said the RB stayed in to block so he dropped back and picked off Warner. His first priority was covering the RB on that play.

[GridironChamp]

Myoung Dj Williams is 6'1" 240lbs and you say Clay Matthews at 6'3" 240lbs is too small???

Doesn't make alot of sense.

link on DJ height / weight
http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=396


And to your point on OLB I disagree. James Harrison said that he had RB coverage on the play he scored the INT for TD against Arizonia. He said the RB stayed in to block so he dropped back and picked off Warner. His first priority was covering the RB on that play.

Matthews played under 240 a lot last year, they have told you this 80 times now.

Also, Matthews playing at OLB, by your projection, would need to be bigger than
D.J. who is playing inside. D.J. is too small to play OLB in a 3-4, IMO, as is Clay
Matthews.

James Harrison - 6'0" 240lbs
DeMarcus Ware - 6'4" 262lbs
LaMarr Woodley - 6'2" 266lbs
Joey Porter - 6'3" 250lbs
Terrell Suggs - 6'3" 260lbs
Shawne Merriman - 6'4" 272lbs

With the exception of Harrison the "best" 3-4 OLBs in the NFL are much larger
than Cushing, who plays smaller than his listed size. At best he would have to
play weakside, which I still think he is too small.

You don't understand coverages very well, apperntly. In a 3-4, more often than
not the LBs play zone coverage because they can't run with RBs or great TEs. That
doesnt mean they don't occasionaly cover a RB or a TE. The WLB in a 3-4 will
cover the RB more often than the SLB covers the TE, but he doesn't do it every
play.

[broncofansd]

How do you know that Matthews plays smaller than he is???


LOL That is funny.

Check New Englands LB's all of them besides Adalius Thomas who is 6'2" 270lbs , Matthews is as tall and with in 8lbs .


Like it or not Matthews is a definete possiblity at 18!!!

[GridironChamp]

How do you know that Matthews plays smaller than he is???


LOL That is funny.

Check New Englands LB's all of them besides Adalius Thomas who is 6'2" 270lbs , Matthews is as tall and with in 8lbs .


Like it or not Matthews is a definete possiblity at 18!!!

You forgot that Mike Vrabel was the other OLB last year... weighing in at 264 lbs.

[Broncos Bassist]

If all of that insanity actually happened, there's no way we'd pass on Everette Brown for Rey Maualuga at 18.

Huge +1. I'd also say that I'd rather have either Ziggy Hood or Gilbert than Rey at 18 if someone got a clue and drafted Brown before we got to pick at 18. I've said it before, and I'll keep quietly banging the drum -- ILB is the position of least need on this D, besides maybe cornerback. I'm not saying it's not a need (all positions besides Champ and Dawkins could use an immediate upgrade), but we have much bigger fish to fry on this D. I'd be a bit upset with a pick of Rey in the first. I'm not sure if I think he'll necessarily be a bust, but I just think there's much better value for Denver than him at 12 and 18.

[broncofansd]

Here is my thinking on Rey Maualuga - he reminds me of Al Wilson. Wilson was a Hard Hitting ILB. He was a Warrior and enforcer!!! I think the team has never been the same since.


DJ Williams is very sound LB but isn't Nasty


Rey Maualuga could bring that Nastiness back to the defense. Is he perfect??? No but I love his attitude.


Here is my thinking on Clay Matthews - he was a late bloomer who has Football in his blood. He should be a solid player for years to come. I believe that OLB is more of a position of need than ILB

I would be happy with either one. I have thought about Denver Drafting both Rey Maualuga and Clay Matthews But it doesn't make sense without a NT.

[swankattack86]

Here is my thinking on Clay Matthews - he was a late bloomer who has Football in his blood. He should be a solid player for years to come. I believe that OLB is more of a position of need than ILB

I would be happy with either one. I have thought about Denver Drafting both Rey Maualuga and Clay Matthews But it doesn't make sense without a NT.


I love it man. Rey and Clay at 12 and 18 then Gilburt at 48 and Baker at 85...thats got ILB, OLB, DE and NT coverd.

[lottaphil]

Can you please explain to me how Everette Brown is much different from Elvis Dumervil besides 3 inches in height??? And how is E. Brown better than Elvis Dumervil????

Everette Brown actually has experience as a rush linebacker in FSU's system and he excelled at it. According to experts he's the most experienced/safest pick DE/OLB prospect for a 3-4 OLB in the draft.

If you actually watch highlights of Everette Brown, he looks like a linebacker, his hips are fluid, he changes direction quickly and that extra three inches totally changes his frame. He's much more athletic and versatile than Dumervil. Just because his measureables look similar doesn't mean he's the same player.

Watch his change of direction at 5:47
His deflected pass the following play
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXJJ14HL5EE

Scouting reports:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/141886-everette-brown-2009-nfl-draft-player-profile-the-sack-machine
specifically:

Out of all the so-called DE/LB "tweeners" (Maybin, Orakpo, etc) Brown is probably the most suited for conversion to outside rushing LB in a 3-4 defense. He is arguably the most explosive pure pass rusher in this year's draft. He is superb coming off the edge and getting to the quarterback.

He can get after running backs from behind and has excellent lateral movement and change of direction.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2009/profiles/everette-brown?id=71227#profiles-tabs:players-analysis
http://warroomreport.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=366&Itemid=1
http://www.draftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/de/Everette-Brown.php


Most of these scouting reports say he's still raw in coverage but they also emphasize athletisicm, moving well in space, and change of direction skills as his biggest strengths, which are the most important attributes for a DE switching to a 3-4 OLB.

[housemouse]

Well you gotta think about this.

Who's bulkier?

6-3 240lb.
Or
6-1 240lb.

The 6-1 guy because he has two less inches to store that 240lbs.

[Goatmaster]

That might be the dumbest comment i have seen on these boards ever. The run d wasnt that much better, and IF and thats a big if, it was bc of a rookie it was bc of Woodyard and not Larsen. Not to mention the run d wasnt improved. Larsen may have a chance to compete, but giving him the starting job and anointing him the savoir is just stupid.

larsen started against the falcons, raiders, and jets
the falcons rushed 35 times for 114 yards. a 3.3 average, you call that good?

raiders rushed 41 times for 158 yards. a 3.9 average, still not good

jets rushed 19 times for 142 yards. a 7.5 average, thats damn good, or am i forgetting something? oh yeah, the play where thomas jones was taken to the ground, rolled off one of our players and ran 59 yards to the end zone when everyone in the stadium thought he was down. that makes 18 rushes for 83 yards. a 4.6 average, not very impressed

broncos starting larsen= 3.7 yards per carry against the no. 10, 9, and 2 rushing teams in the nfl
broncos not starting larsen= 5.1 yards per carry

i rest my case:salute!::salute!::cheers:

[swankattack86]

Everette Brown actually has experience as a rush linebacker in FSU's system and he excelled at it. According to experts he's the most experienced/safest pick DE/OLB prospect for a 3-4 OLB in the draft.

If you actually watch highlights of Everette Brown, he looks like a linebacker, his hips are fluid, he changes direction quickly and that extra three inches totally changes his frame. He's much more athletic and versatile than Dumervil. Just because his measureables look similar doesn't mean he's the same player.

Watch his change of direction at 5:47
His deflected pass the following play
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXJJ14HL5EE

Scouting reports:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/141886-everette-brown-2009-nfl-draft-player-profile-the-sack-machine
specifically:

Out of all the so-called DE/LB "tweeners" (Maybin, Orakpo, etc) Brown is probably the most suited for conversion to outside rushing LB in a 3-4 defense. He is arguably the most explosive pure pass rusher in this year's draft. He is superb coming off the edge and getting to the quarterback.

He can get after running backs from behind and has excellent lateral movement and change of direction.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2009/profiles/everette-brown?id=71227#profiles-tabs:players-analysis
http://warroomreport.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=366&Itemid=1
http://www.draftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/de/Everette-Brown.php


Most of these scouting reports say he's still raw in coverage but they also emphasize athletisicm, moving well in space, and change of direction skills as his biggest strengths, which are the most important attributes for a DE switching to a 3-4 OLB.

Good info and good post.

I got no issues drafting him, If Bj is not there and Brown is...im all for taking him at 12.

[Broncos Bassist]

Everette Brown actually has experience as a rush linebacker in FSU's system and he excelled at it. According to experts he's the most experienced/safest pick DE/OLB prospect for a 3-4 OLB in the draft.

If you actually watch highlights of Everette Brown, he looks like a linebacker, his hips are fluid, he changes direction quickly and that extra three inches totally changes his frame. He's much more athletic and versatile than Dumervil. Just because his measureables look similar doesn't mean he's the same player.

Watch his change of direction at 5:47
His deflected pass the following play
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXJJ14HL5EE

Scouting reports:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/141886-everette-brown-2009-nfl-draft-player-profile-the-sack-machine
specifically:

Out of all the so-called DE/LB "tweeners" (Maybin, Orakpo, etc) Brown is probably the most suited for conversion to outside rushing LB in a 3-4 defense. He is arguably the most explosive pure pass rusher in this year's draft. He is superb coming off the edge and getting to the quarterback.

He can get after running backs from behind and has excellent lateral movement and change of direction.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2009/profiles/everette-brown?id=71227#profiles-tabs:players-analysis
http://warroomreport.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=366&Itemid=1
http://www.draftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/de/Everette-Brown.php


Most of these scouting reports say he's still raw in coverage but they also emphasize athletisicm, moving well in space, and change of direction skills as his biggest strengths, which are the most important attributes for a DE switching to a 3-4 OLB.

I'd be happy with Brown at either 1st rounder. Great post -- CP to ya!

[broncofansd]

Elvis Dumervil > Everette Brown sorry