Bioethics

[chickennob2]

I recently had to write a bioethics essay for my AP biology class, and so I wondered what some of your positions on the topic would be.

Our subject was basically abortion, although it sued as an example the case of Sherri Finkbine from 1962. Finkbine, a Scottsdale, Arizona resident, was a mother of four and performed on a children's TV show. After ingesting thalidomide, a sleep aid that caused serious birth defects, namely phocomelia, or the presence of seal-like flippers in place of upper or lower limbs, as well as misplaced/absent organs, Sherri petitioned her state to allow her to have an abortion. When that failed, she flew to Sweden to have the operation performed there. It was determined afterward that the infant would have been severely deformed.

So you question is this: Is abortion right or wrong? Do special situations, such as the sever birth defects associated with thalidomide ingestion, change the situation and thus your answer?

Another area of focus was a trial in Belgium, in which the court acquitted a young mother of murder for feeding her 8-day-old, thalidomide-deformed infant a sedative that killed the child. The infant had been born without arms, with deformed feet, and with misplaced internal organs.

What is your opinion on this decision?

[JWinn]

Generally, I am against abortion!

However, times dictate that abortions has become a usefull thing. Teens, poor people, those who simply cant care for a child, should have the option available to them. Not to mention rape victems. There are serveral instances where abortion is a logical step.

But this stuff about these two women. First, the second lady. She KILLED her infant! Regardless of his circumstances, which sounds like they were probably caused by her, he was already a living, breathing person. Killing a child already born is murder!

As for Sherri Finkbine, she should have opted to try the courts before she started to do foolish things, like take such a drug! It seems to me, like in the second case, that she CAUSED those defects in her child! I see that as criminal! I mean to INTENTIONALLY cause such defects, simply because you dont want the child.

If a child is going to be born with such defects, NOT caused by outside interferrence, and this is known before hand, then it might be sparing said child a life of anguish.

That being said. It's easy for me, as a man, to say what I think should be done in any certian case. I dont really have to live with the after effects. I can never have an abortion. I just feel that even though I fall into the Pro-life catagory MOST of the time, I certianly see valid reasons why SOME of the time, abortion is probably the best thing for all concerned.

Except for the baby of course.............

Causing your baby to have such defects is just horrible in my book. Regardless of the circumstances!!!! Both of those women should have been sent to prison!!!

With a normal baby, given at least the chance to live a normal life, adoption is always an option. There are many many people dying for a chance to adopt a healthy baby. Both my sister and I were adopted, and she adopted a little girl.

I'm 41, and she's 49. That option has been available for a long time!!

[frenchfan]

That's an tough but interesting topic...

Well, about abortion, I'm for it... It's not about a special situation but about choice... Abortion give a choice... Is it better or worse to have children if you don't want (or not ready) to raise them ?
If you believe in God, may be you should think that he gave us the choice too... It's not up to us to judge that...
I think that if God exists, only he has the answer..

Talking about the Belgium mother... Well, tough I can understand her pain and her point, it's about murder... She took her responsabilities and so did the jury... It's tough to give an answer because we don't know all the subject. I mean, she could have aborted... Why didn't she abort ? May the doctor didn't find the illness before the birth... My point is that she should have aborted if she couldn't stand the situation.

Can I ask a question too ?
What's your point about this :
Imagine a guy who can't move anymore, and have a very bad disease that doctors are not able to heal. If he wants to die because he has no more hope. Should we give him death ?
This case happened here in France. He wrote to our president who answered he couldn't allow him to die...

[JWinn]

OK, how did that get posted intriplicate?

No matter, back to one now............

I gotta say I am throughly disgusted that anyone would cause such birth defects to happen to a child developing inside them!!!!!

That ranks up there with any human atrocity I can imagine!!! :mad:

[JWinn]

That's an tough but interesting topic...

Well, about abortion, I'm for it... It's not about a special situation but about choice... Abortion give a choice... Is it better or worse to have children if you don't want (or not ready) to raise them ?
If you believe in God, may be you should think that he gave us the choice too... It's not up to us to judge that..

There is another choice that could be made. The choice to use proper birth control, or to abstain alltogether. But to create a baby simply to kill it, that's not really a choice in my book.

Accidents happen, but accidents can also be prevented in the first place. If your old enough to create a child, your old enough to understand that.

[chickennob2]

Ok, a little more background info on the topics. Thalidomide is a drug which was sold during the 1950s and 1960s as a sleeping aid and to pregnant women as an antiemetic to combat morning sickness and other symptoms.

Here is more info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalidomide


JWinn, i didnt make this point clear in my first post. She most likely did not take the drug for the purpose of intentionally causing birth defects. However, by the time she had taken the drug, she was, im sure, well aware of the potentially disastrous side-effects of the drug. She made a decision, and a very poor one, if i do say so myself.

[chickennob2]

here is my stance on abortion. It will, im sure, be very controversial i am sure, but you must realize that i am not a religious perso, and thus am not burdened in ym decision by the belief in a "soul"

No one would have any moral qualms with slaughtering a chicken, yet the killing of a human being is taboo. What is the difference? The difference lies in the mental development of human beings. Human beings have reached a level of awareness and consciousness that greatly surpasses that of any other member of the animal kingdom. We can think and reason, and the problem with killing a human being is that one would be destroying this self-aware being, this consciousness. However, a fetus does not have this level of consciousness. It is an unaware being, surpassed in mental capacity by the aforementioned chicken. Yes, it is true that the fetus has the potential to attain this level of awareness, but according to evolution, so too does the chicken. Perhaps the time required for the fetus to reach this level of consciousness is shorter than the untold numbers of generations that the chicken would require, but the fact still stands that when one destroys a fetus, they are not destroying any consciousness, and thus they are doing nothing morally different from killing a chicken.

[EMCF]

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=regressive

Fair enough?

[frenchfan]

There is another choice that could be made. The choice to use proper birth control, or to abstain alltogether. But to create a baby simply to kill it, that's not really a choice in my book.

Accidents happen, but accidents can also be prevented in the first place. If your old enough to create a child, your old enough to understand that.Well I see your point JWinn and I respect it.
I don't believe in "to abstain alltogether"... For me, sex is really good and if I don't want to have a kid, that's also my choice. Yep accidents can happened and you're right that the best way to prevent them is to abstain... So as far as I don't want to have kids, I shouldn't have sex anymore ???

As I said in my previous post, if God exists, he gave us the ability to choose.... I don't say I'm right or I'm wrong about abortion. I just make my choice... And I will let God judge my decision...

[JWinn]

Well I see your point JWinn and I respect it.
I don't believe in "to abstain alltogether"... For me, sex is really good and if I don't want to have a kid, that's also my choice. Yep accidents can happened and you're right that the best way to prevent them is to abstain... So as far as I don't want to have kids, I shouldnt have sex anymore ???

As I said in my previous post, if God exists, he gave us the ability to choose.... I don't say I'm right or I'm wrong about abortion. I just make my choice... And I will let God judge my decision...


Not at all Frenchie! I dont really expect people to be able to abstain. It's human nature to have sex. It's our biological function. As is making babies. As it is with all other animals.

But we have a choice with sex. I really meant that as humans, we can opt for the many methods of birth control that are available to us. Abstinance just being one option.

I understand sometimes passion rules the moment, but a trip the drug store can prevent alot of abortions.

We have the ability to think before we act. This separates us from the chickens. :laugh:

[Jaws]

Generally, I am against abortion!

However, times dictate that abortions has become a usefull thing. Teens, poor people, those who simply cant care for a child, should have the option available to them. Not to mention rape victems. There are serveral instances where abortion is a logical step.

But this stuff about these two women. First, the second lady. She KILLED her infant! Regardless of his circumstances, which sounds like they were probably caused by her, he was already a living, breathing person. Killing a child already born is murder!

As for Sherri Finkbine, she should have opted to try the courts before she started to do foolish things, like take such a drug! It seems to me, like in the second case, that she CAUSED those defects in her child! I see that as criminal! I mean to INTENTIONALLY cause such defects, simply because you dont want the child.

If a child is going to be born with such defects, NOT caused by outside interferrence, and this is known before hand, then it might be sparing said child a life of anguish.

That being said. It's easy for me, as a man, to say what I think should be done in any certian case. I dont really have to live with the after effects. I can never have an abortion. I just feel that even though I fall into the Pro-life catagory MOST of the time, I certianly see valid reasons why SOME of the time, abortion is probably the best thing for all concerned.

Except for the baby of course.............

Causing your baby to have such defects is just horrible in my book. Regardless of the circumstances!!!! Both of those women should have been sent to prison!!!

With a normal baby, given at least the chance to live a normal life, adoption is always an option. There are many many people dying for a chance to adopt a healthy baby. Both my sister and I were adopted, and she adopted a little girl.

I'm 41, and she's 49. That option has been available for a long time!!

Great post. I'm pretty much in agreement with you on this one. Ideally I wish we lived in a world where no abortions happen but I do realise that are there are some circumstances where a case can be made for proceeding with abortion and thus would not want to see Abortion outlawed altogether. I would like to see it become much more difficult to have one though as not enough consideration is given to the other options availabe. I became a parent aged 19. At that age I had no desire to have kids for many more years and didn't feel particularly ready to have a child. However when my kid came into the world I found my feelings on this totally reversed, found I took naturally to parenting and was able to adapt. It wasn't easy but I was able to make a go of things. That kid is now a healthy happy teenager and I'm so glad he's had a chance at life. We hear a lot about parents rights to choose but the millions of unborn babies who are aborted each year- what choice do they have?

[frenchfan]

Great post. I'm pretty much in agreement with you on this one. Ideally I wish we lived in a world where no abortions happen but I do realise that are there are some circumstances where a case can be made for proceeding with abortion and thus would not want to see Abortion outlawed altogether. I would like to see it become much more difficult to have one though as not enough consideration is given to the other options availabe. I became a parent aged 19. At that age I had no desire to have kids for many more years and didn't feel particularly ready to have a child. However when my kid came into the world I found my feelings on this totally reversed, found I took naturally to parenting and was able to adapt. It wasn't easy but I was able to make a go of things. That kid is now a healthy happy teenager and I'm so glad he's had a chance at life. We hear a lot about parents rights to choose but the millions of unborn babies who are aborted each year- what choice do they have?Good point Sharkie... I agree with you on some parts... Unfortunatly, not all people are like you... Some people have kids by "accident" and they don't help them to grow up, they don't support them (or sometimes they do worst things)... Is it better ? Kids are not wanted are they feel it... And they suffer a lot because of that... I don't think it's better ....
As I said before, I can understand your point and may be you're right... But no all the kids are lucky enough to have parents like you...
It's a great debate and I guess we have our point... As you I'm dreaming of a perfect world, but reality is not (perfect)... Personally, I wouldn't go for abortion if my wife was pregnant... But I can understand that some people want to have a choice... May be I'm wrong, but I assume it...

ps : do I have to say what you deserve Sharkie ? ;) :cheers:

[frenchfan]

Not at all Frenchie! I dont really expect people to be able to abstain. It's human nature to have sex. It's our biological function. As is making babies. As it is with all other animals.

But we have a choice with sex. I really meant that as humans, we can opt for the many methods of birth control that are available to us. Abstinance just being one option.

I understand sometimes passion rules the moment, but a trip the drug store can prevent alot of abortions.

We have the ability to think before we act. This separates us from the chickens. :laugh:I agree... I guess I didn't understand all your point in your previous posts my friend...

ps : are you really sure I'm not a chicken ??? :eek: :D ROFL...