Greatest Living Pitcher?

[NJBRONCOSFAN]

There was a poll conducted recently on espn.com asking the same question, and Roger Clemens came out on top.

So I was curious as to who the greatest living pitcher is, through the eyes of broncomania! Soooo, who is it?!
Keep in mind there are only up to 10 poll options, so sorry if I missed the guy you'd vote for! (Some to think about... Steve Carlton, Juan Marichal, Whitey Ford, Mariano Rivera, Jim Palmer, Fergie Jenkins, Dennis Eckersly, and the goose)

[Medford Bronco]

There was a poll conducted recently on espn.com asking the same question, and Roger Clemens came out on top.

So I was curious as to who the greatest living pitcher is, through the eyes of broncomania! Soooo, who is it?!
Keep in mind there are only up to 10 poll options, so sorry if I missed the guy you'd vote for! (Some to think about... Steve Carlton, Juan Marichal, Whitey Ford, Mariano Rivera, Jim Palmer, Fergie Jenkins, Dennis Eckersly, and the goose)

As much as this list is impressive, I have to go with Roger Clemens. To win the ERA title at 43 and the Cy young at 42 is impressive.

I also think Koufax is up there as well, but did not play long enough

great poll NJ :beer:

[Jared]

Lefty
Ryan
Clemens
Koufax

Johnson and Maddux are HOF, but just a notch below these 4, in my opinion, simply because the 4 I mentioned have always dominated. They never had a measurable decline in skills. Ryan lost a lot of games playing for bad teams, but he was throwing has hard as Clemens is now at age 45. Carlton was the most dominant southpaw ever. Johnson is right behind him, but he had a lot of developing years to become a pitcher instead of thrower. Koufax is like the Jim Brown of pitchers. So dominant right away, and retired so young. Simply walked away from baseball. His arm hurt, true, but he was still winning like crazy.

Maddux is a true craftsman, a pitcher's pitcher, but simply has less physical skill than my top 4. I think he'd be the first to admit that.

I also think Gibson belong somewhere in here. I just don't know where. The most unhittable pitcher in the modern (post Babe Ruth) era. His ERA was sick. He was the reason they lowered the mound.

[DevilSpawn]

Right now, if it came down to starters & relievers, my man, Mariano Rivera is the best. He's lost a bit as he's no longer Mr. Automatic, but he's still the best reliever today and I'd rather have him in the playoffs than anyone else.

As for starting pitcher, if everyone on the list was healthy everyday, Pedro Martinez is the best. Endurance is his only question.

Maddox quietly is going to the Hall of Fame. His numbers match up with anyone's.

My choice though: Roger Clemens. Assuming he's not on well conceiled hidden roid program, his status at this age is incredible. Why would 5 teams vie for his services this year. If he goes to Boston, I, as a Yankee fan, would be very nervous.

[Jared]

Right now, if it came down to starters & relievers, my man, Mariano Rivera is the best. He's lost a bit as he's no longer Mr. Automatic, but he's still the best reliever today and I'd rather have him in the playoffs than anyone else.

As for starting pitcher, if everyone on the list was healthy everyday, Pedro Martinez is the best. Endurance is his only question.

Maddox quietly is going to the Hall of Fame. His numbers match up with anyone's.

My choice though: Roger Clemens. Assuming he's not on well conceiled hidden roid program, his status at this age is incredible. Why would 5 teams vie for his services this year. If he goes to Boston, I, as a Yankee fan, would be very nervous.


All great pitchers, but does anyone who played before the 90's get any consideration form you at all?

[Medford Bronco]

All great pitchers, but does anyone who played before the 90's get any consideration form you at all?

I say Koufax and Steve Carlton are my two best before the 90s.

Although I only saw Carlton, I was not even born yet :eek: for Koufax and I am a huge Dodger fan as well

Honorable mention, Bob Gibson for the rules change and Tom Seaver as dominant as well :coffee:

[Gyro]

Where's Roy Halladay??? :confused:

















:D

[Calif. Bronco]

I have to vote for Clemens, although I have never seen anyone as unhittable as Maddox and Martinez were for a few years each. In Pedro's case, this was especially impressive because he did it in the "Steroid" years when pitchers were considered great if they kept their ERA between 4 and 5.

However, Clemens has been doing it for such a long time and done it unbelievably well. I have said over and over again that he is the best pitcher of my generation (the generation just after Koufax and Gibson) and I stand by that.

This is actually a good point - I think I'll ask my Dad, who had season tickets during the Koufax years, who he thinks is better. :coffee:

[Sevenis7]

I voted for Ryan. He just had the misfortune to play on some bad teams.

[DevilSpawn]

All great pitchers, but does anyone who played before the 90's get any consideration form you at all?
I never saw a pitcher pre-1988 other than a Yankee or Met pitcher to give an honest vote. I followed the Yankees from '82 on when Mattingly was aboard, but followed all of baseball around 1993.

If you want to talk about looking at numbers & stats and hearing stories who's the best, then Koufax is hands down. Probably only Cy Young & maybe Babe Ruth top him overall. But from who I saw with my own eyes, it's the Rocket.

And I always wonder though where Doc Gooden might be in this discussion had he not sniffed the foul lines. :confused:

[Jared]

I never saw a pitcher pre-1988 other than a Yankee or Met pitcher to give an honest vote. I followed the Yankees from '82 on when Mattingly was aboard, but followed all of baseball around 1993.

If you want to talk about looking at numbers & stats and hearing stories who's the best, then Koufax is hands down. Probably only Cy Young & maybe Babe Ruth top him overall. But from who I saw with my own eyes, it's the Rocket.

And I always wonder though where Doc Gooden might be in this discussion had he not sniffed the foul lines. :confused:

Oh man, the best pure natural talent in my lifetime.

At 19, he had stuff that was unbelievable. He wasn't even really pitching yet, just throwing it.

Then the drugs messed him up, and then the coaches messed with his delivery.


Could have been one of the all time greats. He and Clemens should have been peers.

[Calif. Bronco]

Don't you guys have the feeling we're going to be saying the same thing about Kerry Wood 10 years from now? You know - great raw talent and never could get it together? I know there are some huge differences (mainly that Doc did have a few good years and Wood has had basically one) but the idea of never reaching incredible potential is similar.

[Medford Bronco]

Don't you guys have the feeling we're going to be saying the same thing about Kerry Wood 10 years from now? You know - great raw talent and never could get it together? I know there are some huge differences (mainly that Doc did have a few good years and Wood has had basically one) but the idea of never reaching incredible potential is similar.

At least Gooden had good mechacis when pitching and not getting into trouble. Kerry Wood is one who thows with all arm and is on the dL every year because of it. He needs to watch Clemens and Schilling on how to deliver the ball using your legs behind it not all arm, Just as Frank Tananna about arm injuries :eek:

[Jared]

Don't you guys have the feeling we're going to be saying the same thing about Kerry Wood 10 years from now? You know - great raw talent and never could get it together? I know there are some huge differences (mainly that Doc did have a few good years and Wood has had basically one) but the idea of never reaching incredible potential is similar.

I don't think Wood had potential.


He just had a hot streak in his rookie year.


But he has rather ordinary stuff. If he can't blow you away, he's done for.

Included in his arsenal are a blazing high-90s fastball, a pretty good curve and a nasty slider. He can, at times, control the running game with a strong pickoff move and has the mental toughness to focus on the batter and runner equally. But, injury problems have always been a concern. He's also too often into the triple digits in pitches by the sixth inning, which shows a lack of accuracy in his pitches.

[NJBRONCOSFAN]

Don't you guys have the feeling we're going to be saying the same thing about Kerry Wood 10 years from now? You know - great raw talent and never could get it together? I know there are some huge differences (mainly that Doc did have a few good years and Wood has had basically one) but the idea of never reaching incredible potential is similar.
As I'm sure some others do, Felix Hernandez is the first guy that comes to mind when thinking about Doc Gooden.

[Watson 81]

Sorry didn't realize there was already a thread

[Calif. Bronco]

Wow - it was like reading a time warp or something :eek:

Anyway, I did talk to my Dad about it this summer (during one of those slow Dodger games during their losing streak when they were pathetic :brick: ) and he basically said either Koufax or Clemens. He admitted that he didn't really see Feller pitch (no TV to speak of in those days) but saw most of the others. I think it comes down to dominance vs. longevity. I think Sandy was as dominant anyone in history but for a relatively short period of time, whereas Roger was dominant (though honestly just a notch below Sandy) but for a much longer time. :coffee:

[OrangeShadow]

im partial to pedro but i voted clemens