Who is Responsible?

[PAINTERDAVE]

TALE OF A BARONESS

As he left for a visit to the outlying districts, the Baron warned his pretty wife; "Do not leave the castle whilst I am gone or I will punish you severely upon my return."

As the hours passed, the young Baroness grew lonely and despite her husbands warning, decided to visit her lover who lived in the nearby countryside. The castle was located on an island in a wide, fast flowing river. "Surely my husband will not return before dawn," thought the Baroness, and she ordered her servants to lower the drawbridge and leave it down until she returned.

After spending several pleasant hours with her lover, the Baroness returned to the drawbridge, only to find the way blocked by a madman waving a long, cruel knife. "Do not attempt to cross the bridge, Baroness, or I will kill you," he raved.

Fearing for her life, the Baroness returned to her lover and asked him for help. "Our's is purely a romantic relationship, sweetheart" said he "and I will not get involved."

The Baroness then sought out a boatman on the river, explained her plight, and asked for safe passage. "I will take you across, for my usual fee of five marks," responded the boatman. "I have no money," wailed the Baroness. "Too bad," replied the boatman "no money, no ride!"

Her fear growing, the Baroness ran crying to the home of a friend, and after explaining the situation, begged for enough noney to pay the boatman his fee. "If you had not disobeyed the Baron, your husband and my friend, this would not have happened. I will not give you a farthing." So the friend denied her request.

With dawn approaching and her last resource exhausted, the Baroness attempted to return to the castle. I ndesperation she attempted to pass the madman... only to be slain by him as promised.

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DIRECTIONS-
In the above story, there were six charactors. It is your task to determine the order in which each of the charactors is responsible for the death of the Baroness. Rank the charactors from one to six in order of their responsibility, with number one being the person most responsible and six being the person least responsible.

The Charactors listed in alphabetical order are;

The Baron
The Baroness
The Boatman
The Friend
The Lover
The Madman

[broncolitis]

TALE OF A BARONESS

As he left for a visit to the outlying districts, the Baron warned his pretty wife; "Do not leave the castle whilst I am gone or I will punish you severely upon my return."

As the hours passed, the young Baroness grew lonely and despite her husbands warning, decided to visit her lover who lived in the nearby countryside. The castle was located on an island in a wide, fast flowing river. "Surely my husband will not return before dawn," thought the Baroness, and she ordered her servants to lower the drawbridge and leave it down until she returned.

After spending several pleasant hours with her lover, the Baroness returned to the drawbridge, only to find the way blocked by a madman waving a long, cruel knife. "Do not attempt to cross the bridge, Baroness, or I will kill you," he raved.

Fearing for her life, the Baroness returned to her lover and asked him for help. "Our's is purely a romantic relationship, sweetheart" said he "and I will not get involved."

The Baroness then sought out a boatman on the river, explained her plight, and asked for safe passage. "I will take you across, for my usual fee of five marks," responded the boatman. "I have no money," wailed the Baroness. "Too bad," replied the boatman "no money, no ride!"

Her fear growing, the Baroness ran crying to the home of a friend, and after explaining the situation, begged for enough noney to pay the boatman his fee. "If you had not disobeyed the Baron, your husband and my friend, this would not have happened. I will not give you a farthing." So the friend denied her request.

With dawn approaching and her last resource exhausted, the Baroness attempted to return to the castle. I ndesperation she attempted to pass the madman... only to be slain by him as promised.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DIRECTIONS-
In the above story, there were six charactors. It is your task to determine the order in which each of the charactors is responsible for the death of the Baroness. Rank the charactors from one to six in order of their responsibility, with number one being the person most responsible and six being the person least responsible.

The Charactors listed in alphabetical order are;

The Baron
The Baroness
The Boatman
The Friend
The Lover
The Madman
1. Baroness.
2.Baron.
3.Madman.
4.Lover
5.freind
6.lover.

[Amigo_Bronco]

1.- The Madman. After all, he was holding the knife.
2.- The Baroness. She left the casttle; she voluntarily decided to cross the bridge despite the threats.
3.- The lover. Just for the good times?
4.- The friend. He could've helped her. Despite the conflict of interests, being friends of both, there was an immediate problem to solve; later he could have done something.
5.- The Baron. Threats are never good.
6.- The Boatman. Business are business; no money, no ride.

Is there a "correct answer" to this? :confused:

[Emancipator]

Painter I've read this before and it is weird how many different responses will made with all the different members.

I'll take a try. Difficult but easy task. I more right than anyone else. :smug:

1. Madman
2. The Baroness
3. The Friend
4. The Lover
5. Baron
6. The Boatman

[Saddletramp]

1. The Baron
He may be the husband but who is he to put such conditions on his wife? And, had he been a satisfactory lover The Baroness would not of needed a lover.

















I am sure the first sentence in this reply will not get me accepted into the Lagpa. You are most welcome ladies.

[PAINTERDAVE]

There is no right or wrong. Or is there?

[redbirdy80]

1. The Baroness
2. The Madman
3. The Lover
4. The Friend
5. The Baron
6. The Boatman

[7Fan30]

Madman - he's the one that actually did it
Baron - imposing such a harsh rule
Baroness - for going to her lover, though with a husband like the Baron, who would blame her
Lover, Boatman and Friend all tie for last - It wasn't their responsibility to help her out.

[Charlie Brown]

DIRECTIONS-
In the above story, there were six charactors. It is your task to determine the order in which each of the charactors is responsible for the death of the Baroness. Rank the charactors from one to six in order of their responsibility, with number one being the person most responsible and six being the person least responsible.

The Charactors listed in alphabetical order are;

The Baron
The Baroness
The Boatman
The Friend
The Lover
The Madman

I. Baroness - She chose to disobey her husband's orders
II. Baron - He should not have put her in such a position
III. Madman - Perhaps he was paid for by the Baron to remove of the Baroness. Good way to get rid of her IMHO. She had it coming.
IV. Lover - For being with the Baroness. That there is messing with fire.
V. Friend - The friend failed to be there for a friend in need.
VI. Boatman - Just an innocent bystander as far as I'm concerned.

[AZ Snake Fan]

--- The Madman actually killed the Baroness ---

--- But ---

--- The Baroness left the castle despite warnings, and cheated on her husband, the Baron ---

--- The Baron was an abusive tyrant and the Baroness could have stayed in the village, but chose to cross the bridge and face the Madman, because the Baroness was so terrified of the Baron ---

--- A "true" Friend would help a friend in need --- regardless

--- This "Friend" placed judgement on the Baroness, and would not give her the money that she needed for the Boatman ---

--- The Lover could have saved the Baroness, but only viewed their relationship from a physical standpoint ---

--- The Boatman could have helped the Baroness by simply giving her a ride in his boat, but the Boatman considered money more important than one's life ---

--- The Lover didn't save her.
--- The Boatman wouldn't give her a ride.
--- The Friend wouldn't give her a "farthing".
--- The Baron terrified her.
--- The Baroness chose to cross the bridge.
--- The Madman wacked her.

--- All six characters are equally responsible for the death of the Baroness ---
--- IMO

--- Of course, none of this would have happened if she just stayed in the castle.

--- :cheers:
.

[topscribe]

UUMM That's a good way to get banned.
Humor, right, Broncolitis?

-----

[Emancipator]

I have some humor.

The Baron wasn't a tyrant. He simply told his wife not to leave the house or she would be punished. He said nothing about killing her.
She should have obeyed her husband. I'm sure she took her vows. :heh:

[PAINTERDAVE]

Rotflmao...

[AZ Snake Fan]

I have some humor.

The Baron wasn't a tyrant. He simply told his wife not to leave the house or she would be punished. He said nothing about killing her.
She should have obeyed her husband. I'm sure she took her vows. :heh:


"Do not leave the castle whilst I am gone or I will punish you severely upon my return."

"In desperation she attempted to pass the madman... only to be slain by him as promised."

--- The Baroness could have stayed in the village and saved her life, but chose to face the Madman, because she was terrified of her husband, the Baron, who would punish her SEVERELY ---

--- The Baron was abusive ---

.

[KCLadyFan]

--- The Madman actually killed the Baroness ---

--- But ---

--- The Baroness left the castle despite warnings, and cheated on her husband, the Baron ---

--- The Baron was an abusive tyrant and the Baroness could have stayed in the village, but chose to cross the bridge and face the Madman, because the Baroness was so terrified of the Baron ---

--- A "true" Friend would help a friend in need --- regardless

--- This "Friend" placed judgement on the Baroness, and would not give her the money that she needed for the Boatman ---

--- The Lover could have saved the Baroness, but only viewed their relationship from a physical standpoint ---

--- The Boatman could have helped the Baroness by simply giving her a ride in his boat, but the Boatman considered money more important than one's life ---

--- The Lover didn't save her.
--- The Boatman wouldn't give her a ride.
--- The Friend wouldn't give her a "farthing".
--- The Baron terrified her.
--- The Baroness chose to cross the bridge.
--- The Madman wacked her.

--- All six characters are equally responsible for the death of the Baroness ---
--- IMO

--- Of course, none of this would have happened if she just stayed in the castle.

--- :cheers:
.
very good way to look at this AZ.....Her husband was probably a jerk....she should of left him and her lover and never looked back and started her life w/o both of them....the lover was a jerk too....IMO...

[Emancipator]

--- The Baroness could have stayed in the village and saved her life, but chose to face the Madman, because she was terrified of her husband, the Baron, who would punish her SEVERELY ---

--- The Baron was abusive ---

.
I see what you are saying AZ. I'm married and I would never wish or do any physical harm on my wife. So, when he said punish her severely, I think he was threatening to take away the cards. I'm thinking he wasn't simply going to take away her Visa, but her Master Card, Discover, and Macy's credit card too.

She wanted to face the madman because she thought it was a chance she'd get by him. She had to take the chance to keep her credit line. :D

(I made humor again.)


{oh yeah....by no means am I serious. I know it is simply a thinking/philosophical thread. I only made joke because it wasn't a true story.....}

[Saddletramp]

I see what you are saying AZ. I'm married and I would never wish or do any physical harm on my wife. So, when he said punish her severely, I think he was threatening to take away the cards. I'm thinking he wasn't simply going to take away her Visa, but her Master Card, Discover, and Macy's credit card too.

She wanted to face the madman because she thought it was a chance she'd get by him. She had to take the chance to keep her credit line. :D

(I made humor again.)

I
You are on a roll tonight my friend. ROFLMAO!!!!

[Jared]

I have some humor.

The Baron wasn't a tyrant. He simply told his wife not to leave the house or she would be punished. He said nothing about killing her.
She should have obeyed her husband. I'm sure she took her vows. :heh:

Vows don't say "Obey".


Although, I admit, her actions led to her death.


The Baron probably paid the dude to kill her so he could collect the insurance check.

[Emancipator]

Vows don't say "Obey".


Although, I admit, her actions led to her death.


The Baron probably paid the dude to kill her so he could collect the insurance check.
I've heard many wedding vows that included obey in them. Not everyone use that word. There is no set vows. However, I bet a large number of baby boomers and even older generations used the word obey in their vows.

But like I said.......was just having a bit of fun.

[redbirdy80]

Vows don't say "Obey".


Although, I admit, her actions led to her death.


The Baron probably paid the dude to kill her so he could collect the insurance check.


A lot of very traditional ones actually DO say 'obey'...

[Saddletramp]

A lot of very traditional ones actually DO say 'obey'...
Exactly what I was gonna say. I plan on using very traditional vows the next time.

[rcsodak]

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DIRECTIONS-
In the above story, there were six charactors. It is your task to determine the order in which each of the charactors is responsible for the death of the Baroness. Rank the charactors from one to six in order of their responsibility, with number one being the person most responsible and six being the person least responsible.

The Charactors listed in alphabetical order are;


The Baron-6
The Baroness-2
The Boatman-5
The Friend-4
The Lover-3
The Madman-1

[TD Machine]

Painter Dave! In my college level philosophy class our teacher asked us to do the EXACT same thing and to give reasons why. Great post!

[SM19]

1. The Madman - Clearly. After all, he's the one that killed her.
2. The Baroness - I won't say that leaving the castle made her responsible for her fate, because as far as she knew she was only risking a beating. Trying to cross the bridge, rather than stay in the countryside and survive the ordeal battered but intact, does make her responsible.
3. The Boatman - Very petty to condemn her to choose between death or beating when he's got nothing at stake but his payment.
4. The Lover - Yeah, he should have helped her out, but what do you do about a Madman threatening your mistress? I have to think that if she'd come back to him after talking to the boatman, she'd have gotten some money.
5. The Friend - Think he should be up next to the Boatman, for the same reason? I considered it, but the Friend is also a friend of the Baron, and didn't want to help her get away with disobeying him. He can't have anticipated that she would actually try to get past the Madman.
6. The Baron - He's a bad guy, but it's very hard to blame him for this situation when he was the one offering the Baroness a very strong incentive not to leave in the first place.

So the verdict is...
Responsible in some significant way: Madman, Baroness, Boatman, Lover
Mostly not responsible: Friend, Baron

[broncolitis]

Humor, right, Broncolitis?

-----
NO Don't you think that refference to prostitution is against the COC?

[AZ Snake Fan]

I have some humor.

The Baron wasn't a tyrant. He simply told his wife not to leave the house or she would be punished. He said nothing about killing her.
She should have obeyed her husband. I'm sure she took her vows. :heh:


I see what you are saying AZ. I'm married and I would never wish or do any physical harm on my wife. So, when he said punish her severely, I think he was threatening to take away the cards. I'm thinking he wasn't simply going to take away her Visa, but her Master Card, Discover, and Macy's credit card too.

She wanted to face the madman because she thought it was a chance she'd get by him. She had to take the chance to keep her credit line.

(I made humor again.)

--- Sorry Σ-MAN !!!

--- I completely missed your first statement, "I have some humor", at the top !

--- I got so wrapped up in PD's hypothetical allegory that I didn't realize you were joking until you made your "credit card" post !

--- Now THAT'S what I would call extreme "cruel and unusual" punishment !

--- I dare say the tables would turn, and the Baron's life would be in jeopardy !!!

--- Real funny stuff Σ-MAN !!!

--- :cheers:
.

[PAINTERDAVE]

I am happy to have provoked such deep thoughts.

Myself... I believe the responsibility lies with the young Baroness herself.
It was her selfish actions that put all the events into play.

She caused the drawbridge to be lowered and left down, tempting the madman into an act he would not have been able to do otherwise.

She was cheating on her husband, putting herself and her lover at risk.

The situation she created put the friend in an awkward position, and she specificly asked him to be a part of her betrayal of the Baron.

She foolishly rushed headlong into sure death, so even after all had transpired she had the ultimate responsibility of what can be described as "Suicide by Madman".

The madman had no responsibility. Haven't you ever heard the verdict "Innocent by reason of insanity?" The verdict does not say "Guilty , but insane"

The Baron had no responsibility. He was doing his best to protect his foolish, young, cheating wife from her own selfish actions which he feared would cause her great harm. The mere threat of severe punishment is not the same as bodily injury. As pointed out... did she prefer death by Madman over loosing the visa and mastercard? The Baron acted in a responsible fashion... doing everything he could to ensure the safety of his fooluish bride whilst he was away.

The Boatman was a bad business man. Surely the Baron would have rewarded him for giving her pasage. Legally though, he did have no responsibility.

And no one earned the extra credit points!

The story talks of 6SIX charactors. There was however a 7th charactor, which no one has caught and talked of.

The servant who lowered the drawbridge! Had the servaant simply remained loyal to the orders of the Baron... the whole night would have been rather uneventful indeed. Were I the Baron... I would find out who lowered the bridge... and then I would lower the boom!

[Charlie Brown]

The story talks of 6SIX charactors. There was however a 7th charactor, which no one has caught and talked of.

The servant who lowered the drawbridge! Had the servaant simply remained loyal to the orders of the Baron... the whole night would have been rather uneventful indeed. Were I the Baron... I would find out who lowered the bridge... and then I would lower the boom!

That is unfair. As these are the directions:

DIRECTIONS-
In the above story, there were six charactors. It is your task to determine the order in which each of the charactors is responsible for the death of the Baroness. Rank the charactors from one to six in order of their responsibility, with number one being the person most responsible and six being the person least responsible.

The Charactors listed in alphabetical order are;

The Baron
The Baroness
The Boatman
The Friend
The Lover
The Madman

[PAINTERDAVE]

Dude....

You are an American! We are supposed to be the best and the brightest.
Use the lesson to think outside the lines.
This is after all a college level board, isn't it!

I bet you will never overlook something like that again. You can thank me in advance for teaching you to look past the obvious, to not trust that everyone else knows the absolutes. It is for all of us to think and grow and learn and find new perspectives!

[Emancipator]

PD,
It was a nice thread to get people thinking.
On a serious note, although the Baroness was unfaithful, that didn't mean she should have been punished or killed by any man.

[PAINTERDAVE]

Absolutly! Total aggreement. She did not deserve to be killed.

The issue of responsibility however does not adddress what she deserved.

Even in the end... she could have simply stayed with the friend. No one forced her to rush headlong into certain death at the hands of a maniac.

Speaking of the madman... it brings up the point of innocent by reason of insanity.

I personaly think the verdict should be... guilty, but insane.


A friend of mine from high school once was sitting at his own dinner table. Out of the blue... his wifes brother stood up walked around behind him grabbed a butcher knife and plunged it into his neck... killing him instantly.

The killer/bro in law spent 2 years at the State Hospital in Peublo. Innocent by reason of insanity. 2 years later he was pronounced sane and released.

It makes no sense to me.

[jhns]

You guys all have this wrong, I am the one to blame.

[NameUsedBefore]

(without reading any of the topic besides initial post)

The Baroness - She died because of her decisions.

The Baron
The Boatman
The Friend
The Lover

^--- Miscellaneous. All could be considered to have played a marginal hand in the lady's death.

The Madman - He's a madman, therefore his mental hand in this dramatic outcoming was done without thought and reasoning. No control over what happens.

[PAINTERDAVE]

You guys all have this wrong, I am the one to blame.
You are hilarious. CP's somewhere down the road for you!

[Jared]

A lot of very traditional ones actually DO say 'obey'...

I am suprised to see that there are still couples who use that.

Oh well, live and learn, I guess.


I thought more about this puzzle, and I wonder if the Baron was actually all of the other guys? Basically, it was all a trap?

[Jared]

NO Don't you think that refference to prostitution is against the COC?

Only if it condones, endorses or decribes teh illegal act.


Simply referring to it is not.


Example: A news story about a large prositution ring being broken up by police would be ok.

Or, if some public figure was have found to have been a prostitute or have used a prostitute in the past, thus causing a scandal. That would be fine.


Actually calling someone that, or saying where to find them or minimize chances of arrest in a specific city, THAT would be a COC violation.

[diesel51]

TALE OF A BARONESS


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DIRECTIONS-
In the above story, there were six charactors. It is your task to determine the order in which each of the charactors is responsible for the death of the Baroness. Rank the charactors from one to six in order of their responsibility, with number one being the person most responsible and six being the person least responsible.

The Charactors listed in alphabetical order are;

The Baron
The Baroness
The Boatman
The Friend
The Lover
The Madman

1) The Baroness
2) The Madman
3) The Lover
4) The Friend
5) The Baron
6) The Boatman

[Broncofan-13]

the butler did it.