Dumervil will be a BEAST!

[T8KNOVR]

Bronco Nagurski Award (nation’s defensive player of the year)

All-American first-team selection by The NFL Draft Report and American Football Coaches Association

Walter Camp Football Foundation Top Ten Player of the Year honors

All-Big East Conference first-team pick and Defensive Player of the Year

He is in great company as Champ won the Bronco Nagurski Award in 1998. I may be drunk off the Dumervil kool-aid but I from what G. Warren and A. Wilson have said watch out!

[silkamilkamonic]

Bronco Nagurski Award (nation’s defensive player of the year)

All-American first-team selection by The NFL Draft Report and American Football Coaches Association

Walter Camp Football Foundation Top Ten Player of the Year honors

All-Big East Conference first-team pick and Defensive Player of the Year

He is in great company as Champ won the Bronco Nagurski Award in 1998. I may be drunk off the Dumervil kool-aid but I from what G. Warren and A. Wilson have said watch out!


You forgot to add "Is compared to Dwight Freeney!" That alone should have told everyone in the NFL universe that he's going to be a stud!

"Hello, hello, hello, hello.........."

[GridironChamp]

Wow, people are putting so much stock in Dumerville be a stud because of "in commons" he has with a good player.

You the know the last Bronco that had alot of "in commons" with a good player was Wesely Duke. And some homer fans are gonna keep telling you he was released due to knee surgerory. Well if he was the next Gates im pretty sure you would keep him on IR until he is better :duh: His performance in NFLE was his last chance to prove to Denver that he deserved to be there, and obvisiouly he didnt.

So my point?
SOmetimes i may be wrong, most the time i will be right ;) But the last a situation like Dumerville came up i was right, and i think i will be this time. Dumerville might serve as a great 3rd down Pass Rush DE, but nothing more, and he can power rush like Freeny. Freeny may use his speed mostely but he will bull rush you if your on your heels. If Dumerville does that, he gets inside big Tackles and get manhandled.

[MTRaiderHater]

T8K---> You're right on. Its all in the Sig baby!

He might be 9/16 of an inch shorter than Dwight Freeney, so everyone says he's too short. Let his production this season speak for itself I say.

:salute: :salute:

[GridironChamp]

T8K---> You're right on. Its all in the Sig baby!

He might be 9/16 of an inch shorter than Dwight Freeney, so everyone says he's too short. Let his production this season speak for itself I say.

:salute: :salute:

LMAO

Dwight Freeny is 6'1"
and your so called "next" Dwight Freeny is 5'11" thats two inches in case you cant count....

[SimonSteele]

Wow, people are putting so much stock in Dumerville be a stud because of "in commons" he has with a good player.

You the know the last Bronco that had alot of "in commons" with a good player was Wesely Duke. And some homer fans are gonna keep telling you he was released due to knee surgerory. Well if he was the next Gates im pretty sure you would keep him on IR until he is better :duh: His performance in NFLE was his last chance to prove to Denver that he deserved to be there, and obvisiouly he didnt.

So my point?
SOmetimes i may be wrong, most the time i will be right ;) But the last a situation like Dumerville came up i was right, and i think i will be this time. Dumerville might serve as a great 3rd down Pass Rush DE, but nothing more, and he can power rush like Freeny. Freeny may use his speed mostely but he will bull rush you if your on your heels. If Dumerville does that, he gets inside big Tackles and get manhandled.

I disagree with your Duke comparison. The "in-commons" factor with Duke was solely athletic ability. The "in-commons" with Dumervil is not only sheer athletic ability but also a lot of statistical evidence as well as prestigous awards.

I think Dumervil will be a beast too!

[GridironChamp]

I disagree with your Duke comparison. The "in-commons" factor with Duke was solely athletic ability. The "in-commons" with Dumervil is not only sheer athletic ability but also a lot of statistical evidence as well as prestigous awards.

I think Dumervil will be a beast too!

That he earned during when the first half of the season when no one knew who he was?

Did you know Dumervil had 14-17 sacks in the first half of his season and only 6-3 in the last half....Thats because he was actually gettting blocked now. ;)

We will see, when Dumervil plays about 15 plays in a game....

[topscribe]

LMAO

Dwight Freeny is 6'1"
and your so called "next" Dwight Freeny is 5'11" thats two inches in case you cant count....
Well, if you want to get picky and techical, Dumervil is actually 5-11 7/16, whereas Freeney is 6-0 9/16. That is a difference of 1 1/8".

Just in case you can't count. :coffee:

-----

[OrangePeel]

Dumervil has all the physical criteria to be a good pass rusher, but IMO, at best he will fight for a rotation on the defensive line.

It is an interesting possibility however to plug him in at DT oppoiste warren and see how he does with about 15 more lbs (he has the frame for t)

[MTRaiderHater]

That he earned during when the first half of the season when no one knew who he was?




WooHoo!

Thanks for the coherent sentence.

Anyway, I would like to point out that Elvis is actually 5'11 7/16" tall. Thare are many places on the web like this (http://football.about.com/od/nationalfootballleague/p/elvisdumervil.htm) that reference him as 6'0'' tall. While Dwight F. might be close to 6'1" tall, he isn't very much taller than Elvis. Every team has a fudge factor when listing the various statistics of there players. Players also want to be viewed by their competitors as the best possible specimen of a football player. An NFL player is really only measured publicly once in his lifetime-- prior to the NFL Draft. So Dwight F.'s height may be anywhere from 6'0"-6'1", but since he has been playing at a profession level in a combat sport for most of his life, his spine has probably been compressed about a half an inch since he entered the NFL. Also, since the average person's height varies as much as 1/4" from morning to evening, Elvis and Dwight could be as close as 3/8 of an inch in height, depending on the time of day they are measured.

In closing, I would like to say that the point here is that two atheletes cannot be seperated into "too small" and "has good size" categories because of a few fractions of an inch. There are far to many characteristics of a good football player that are ignored when these assessments are made. That is why you hear about "immeasureables," because they can't be measured. :duh:

:salute: :salute:

[hilife]

Well, if you want to get picky and techical, Dumerville is actually 5-11 7/16, whereas Freeney is 6-0 9/16. That is a difference of 1 1/8".

Just in case you can't count. :coffee:

-----

What did the five fingers say to the face.......SMACK!!!

[Nick7]

Wow, people are putting so much stock in Dumerville be a stud because of "in commons" he has with a good player.

You the know the last Bronco that had alot of "in commons" with a good player was Wesely Duke. And some homer fans are gonna keep telling you he was released due to knee surgerory. Well if he was the next Gates im pretty sure you would keep him on IR until he is better :duh: His performance in NFLE was his last chance to prove to Denver that he deserved to be there, and obvisiouly he didnt.

So my point?
SOmetimes i may be wrong, most the time i will be right ;) But the last a situation like Dumerville came up i was right, and i think i will be this time. Dumerville might serve as a great 3rd down Pass Rush DE, but nothing more, and he can power rush like Freeny. Freeny may use his speed mostely but he will bull rush you if your on your heels. If Dumerville does that, he gets inside big Tackles and get manhandled.


Your comparison to Duke/Gates isn't neccessarily correlative to the Freeney/Dumervil comparion.

Duke was either going to be a complete hit or miss. Players like him are always going to be. Ones that have great athletic ability, but haven't played since HS. Duke hadn't ever really proved himself.

Obviously, or so it seems to Shanny, Duke was a miss.

Dumervil is compared to Freeney because he played against a similar level of competition, got roughly the same stats, and is roughly the same size.

And I'm really tired of people saying,''All of Dumervil's stats came against weak teams.'' 20 sacks is 20 sacks, people. I didn't know half of Louisville's schedule was against Div. II schools. No one seemed to say anything when Suggs was manhandled all day by 18-year old Ritchie Incognito, when he racked up 20+ sacks.

[D.J.55]

There is a lot of players out there that came out of college and scouts said they were too short. Here some examples of what i'm talking about: Zach Thomas, Dwight Freeney, Darrent Williams, and here's the best one Sam Mills. And thats just on defence off the top of my head. Just because a player is labled 'too short' doesn't mean he can't play. One thing about all those players is they have great instincts. What i mean they have the ability to see plays before they happen and get to the ball and be one step ahead of everyone else. that goes toward filling any size or talent gap. I don't know how many of you read some of the draft guides but i do and in one of the magazines it talks about players with good defenive instincts and they said a good pick would be DE Elvis Dumervil. Last year we draft Darrent Williams and everyone said he was to short play, it was wasted pick, he's nothin more than a kick returner. Now look at him. He brought a aggressive play making ability to the Broncos that the Broncos hadn't had in a while. To me Dumervil will be fixture on the Dline for years to come.

[Peerless]

Bronco Nagurski Award (nation’s defensive player of the year)

All-American first-team selection by The NFL Draft Report and American Football Coaches Association

Walter Camp Football Foundation Top Ten Player of the Year honors

All-Big East Conference first-team pick and Defensive Player of the Year

He is in great company as Champ won the Bronco Nagurski Award in 1998. I may be drunk off the Dumervil kool-aid but I from what G. Warren and A. Wilson have said watch out!

It's nice... but all of them awards are college awards.

[GridironChamp]

WooHoo!

Thanks for the coherent sentence.

Anyway, I would like to point out that Elvis is actually 5'11 7/16" tall. Thare are many places on the web like this (http://football.about.com/od/nationalfootballleague/p/elvisdumervil.htm) that reference him as 6'0'' tall. While Dwight F. might be close to 6'1" tall, he isn't very much taller than Elvis. Every team has a fudge factor when listing the various statistics of there players. Players also want to be viewed by their competitors as the best possible specimen of a football player. An NFL player is really only measured publicly once in his lifetime-- prior to the NFL Draft. So Dwight F.'s height may be anywhere from 6'0"-6'1", but since he has been playing at a profession level in a combat sport for most of his life, his spine has probably been compressed about a half an inch since he entered the NFL. Also, since the average person's height varies as much as 1/4" from morning to evening, Elvis and Dwight could be as close as 3/8 of an inch in height, depending on the time of day they are measured.

In closing, I would like to say that the point here is that two atheletes cannot be seperated into "too small" and "has good size" categories because of a few fractions of an inch. There are far to many characteristics of a good football player that are ignored when these assessments are made. That is why you hear about "immeasureables," because they can't be measured. :duh:

:salute: :salute:
Yeah ok, and this does what?
He said they were ore or less the same hieght i just pointed out the correct heights.

BTW size matters in the NFL for the normal player, occansionally you get a player or two that is undersized that it works out for..........

And so this helps Dumervile's case how? He still isnt Dwight Freeny in anyway possible, including height. So you can drop that idea, if you are trying to compare them two.

Note: can you be anymore of a Homer at this moment? saying that Freeny might be shorter but not saying Dumbervile could be...

[GridironChamp]

Your comparison to Duke/Gates isn't neccessarily correlative to the Freeney/Dumervil comparion.

Duke was either going to be a complete hit or miss. Players like him are always going to be. Ones that have great athletic ability, but haven't played since HS. Duke hadn't ever really proved himself.

Obviously, or so it seems to Shanny, Duke was a miss.

Dumervil is compared to Freeney because he played against a similar level of competition, got roughly the same stats, and is roughly the same size.

And I'm really tired of people saying,''All of Dumervil's stats came against weak teams.'' 20 sacks is 20 sacks, people. I didn't know half of Louisville's schedule was against Div. II schools. No one seemed to say anything when Suggs was manhandled all day by 18-year old Ritchie Incognito, when he racked up 20+ sacks.

He isnt Freeny, his sacks probably were against bad teams. IDK but i do know that when teams starting trying to block him they shut him down, look at the last half of the season..

And how isnt Dumbervile a hit or miss. With his size your always a hit or miss at DE. The biggest differences in the NFl from college is the size and speed of the players. Dumbervile isnt getting much bigger but his oppenents are going to be bigger than he is used too.

Especially against the good O-lines in the AFCW, this is assuming OK's newer additions will make thier line a lil better

[GridironChamp]

There is a lot of players out there that came out of college and scouts said they were too short. Here some examples of what i'm talking about: Zach Thomas, Dwight Freeney, Darrent Williams, and here's the best one Sam Mills. And thats just on defence off the top of my head. Just because a player is labled 'too short' doesn't mean he can't play. One thing about all those players is they have great instincts. What i mean they have the ability to see plays before they happen and get to the ball and be one step ahead of everyone else. that goes toward filling any size or talent gap. I don't know how many of you read some of the draft guides but i do and in one of the magazines it talks about players with good defenive instincts and they said a good pick would be DE Elvis Dumervil. Last year we draft Darrent Williams and everyone said he was to short play, it was wasted pick, he's nothin more than a kick returner. Now look at him. He brought a aggressive play making ability to the Broncos that the Broncos hadn't had in a while. To me Dumervil will be fixture on the Dline for years to come.

To me, he will be in Denver for years to come, because your Dline will never be addressed so he will be needed for the pass rush. But especially not a fixture or a starter.

[kmartin575]

Your comparison to Duke/Gates isn't neccessarily correlative to the Freeney/Dumervil comparion.

Duke was either going to be a complete hit or miss. Players like him are always going to be. Ones that have great athletic ability, but haven't played since HS. Duke hadn't ever really proved himself.

Obviously, or so it seems to Shanny, Duke was a miss.

Dumervil is compared to Freeney because he played against a similar level of competition, got roughly the same stats, and is roughly the same size.

And I'm really tired of people saying,''All of Dumervil's stats came against weak teams.'' 20 sacks is 20 sacks, people. I didn't know half of Louisville's schedule was against Div. II schools. No one seemed to say anything when Suggs was manhandled all day by 18-year old Ritchie Incognito, when he racked up 20+ sacks.

If 20 sacks is 20 sacks then I guess Chris Gocong was a better college DE because he won the Buch Buchanan award as the best Division I-AA defensive player with 23 sacks, more than Dumervil had.

[T8KNOVR]

If 20 sacks is 20 sacks then I guess Chris Gocong was a better college DE because he won the Buch Buchanan award as the best Division I-AA defensive player with 23 sacks, more than Dumervil had.


Come on, we will wait and see if Gocong ends up being a better NFL prospect then Dumervil. Gocong played for Cal Poly with the attendence of his biggest home game being just over 8,000. He was a reach and the Eagles will be sorry they passed over Elvis in the 3rd round. I have no idea why we are not hearing the same undersized comments being made about this kid who played I-AA. He is 6'0 and weighs 264. Elvis is 5'11 - 258. I bet Gocong never played nose or tackle even though he outwieghs Dumervil. Possibly lack of talent. I am sticking to my guns, DUMERVIL will be a beast!

[GridironChamp]

If 20 sacks is 20 sacks then I guess Chris Gocong was a better college DE because he won the Buch Buchanan award as the best Division I-AA defensive player with 23 sacks, more than Dumervil had.
LOL NICE point Kmart....


BTW if anyone really knows who this guys is i will give you a CP.
Thats how unknown he is.....

[GridironChamp]

Come on, we will wait and see if Gocong ends up being a better NFL prospect then Dumervil. Gocong played for Cal Poly with the attendence of his biggest home game being just over 8,000. He was a reach and the Eagles will be sorry they passed over Elvis in the 3rd round. I have no idea why we are not hearing the same undersized comments being made about this kid who played I-AA. He is 6'0 and weighs 264. Elvis is 5'11 - 258. I bet Gocong never played nose or tackle even though he outwieghs Dumervil. Possibly lack of talent. I am sticking to my guns, DUMERVIL will be a beast!
See can you say homer, everyone says 20 sacks is 20sacks. NO matter the opponents, no matter on what level but when it comes to someone being better than Dumbervile it all of sudden matters :goofy:

[azfanz]

[QUOTE=D.J.55]There is a lot of players out there that came out of college and scouts said they were too short. Here some examples of what i'm talking about: Zach Thomas, Dwight Freeney, Darrent Williams, and here's the best one Sam Mills.

You forgot about one Al Wilson. Big Al was considered a reach (no pun intended) when we took him with the last pick in the first round due to his lack of ideal height. I think he's more than answered his critics. One thing they can't measure at the combine and pro days is the size of a players heart. I would take 11 Al Wilson's on my starting defense any day of the week.

I'll hold judgement until I see what Dumervil brings on Sunday. Hopefully you nay sayers will be dining on crow.

[TXBRONC]

LMAO

Dwight Freeny is 6'1"
and your so called "next" Dwight Freeny is 5'11" thats two inches in case you cant count....

Actually Grid I'm fairly certain that when Freeney came out of college he was listed as 6'0".

[Nick7]

If 20 sacks is 20 sacks then I guess Chris Gocong was a better college DE because he won the Buch Buchanan award as the best Division I-AA defensive player with 23 sacks, more than Dumervil had.

Wow, if you had a pair of eyes, you would've read...


20 sacks is 20 sacks, people. I didn't know half of Louisville's schedule was against Div. II schools.

BTW, Dumervil won the Bronko Nagurski award, which is given to the nation's best defensive player...

...nice try.

[kmartin575]

Wow, if you had a pair of eyes, you would've read...



BTW, Dumervil won the Bronko Nagurski award, which is given to the nation's best defensive player...

...nice try.

And Eric Crouch out of Nebraska and Jason White out of Oklahoma both won a Heisman. Tell me, how have there NFL careers turned out? Oh, that's right. They are not in the NFL. College football awards mean nothing.

[Nick7]

He isnt Freeny, his sacks probably were against bad teams. IDK but i do know that when teams starting trying to block him they shut him down, look at the last half of the season..

And how isnt Dumbervile a hit or miss. With his size your always a hit or miss at DE. The biggest differences in the NFl from college is the size and speed of the players. Dumbervile isnt getting much bigger but his oppenents are going to be bigger than he is used too.

Especially against the good O-lines in the AFCW, this is assuming OK's newer additions will make thier line a lil better


The last half of the season? Do mean when he was constantly getting double teamed because teams recognized his ability.

He's not much of a hit or miss player because he has already proven himself, unlike Duke. I also liked how brought up speed. While Tamba has the size, I'm not sure his 5.0+ 40 is going to cut it, being that the NFL is based solely on size and speed...

[Nick7]

College football awards mean nothing.

Which is why you brought up that Gocong won the Buchanan award?

I also like how you strayed away from my main point....

[BroncoFanCam]

Well, if you want to get picky and techical, Dumerville is actually 5-11 7/16, whereas Freeney is 6-0 9/16. That is a difference of 1 1/8".

Just in case you can't count. :coffee:

-----

-- :laugh: --

You must spread some Contributor Status around before giving it to topscribe again.

[kmartin575]

The last half of the season? Do mean when he was constantly getting double teamed because teams recognized his ability.

He's not much of a hit or miss player because he has already proven himself, unlike Duke. I also liked how brought up speed. While Tamba has the size, I'm not sure his 5.0+ 40 is going to cut it, being that the NFL is based solely on size and speed...

At least get your facts straight. 5.0+ 40 time? Sorry, but he ran a 4.86 at his pro day and his real time is actually a little faster than that (he has been timed at around 4.7-4.75).

[kmartin575]

Which is why you brought up that Gocong won the Buchanan award?

I also like how you strayed away from my main point....

The Buchanan award had nothing to do with that argument, I shouldn't have even mentioned it. My point was that he had 23 sacks. You guys said sacks are sacks so his 23 sacks are better than Dumervil's 20 sacks, regardless of the competition level.

[Nick7]

The Buchanan award had nothing to do with that argument, I shouldn't have even mentioned it. My point was that he had 23 sacks. You guys said sacks are sacks so his 23 sacks are better than Dumervil's 20 sacks, regardless of the competition level.


You're kidding me right? Look back at my post, when did I say ''20 sacks is 20 sacks regarless of the competition level?''

[SimonSteele]

Your comparison to Duke/Gates isn't neccessarily correlative to the Freeney/Dumervil comparion.

Duke was either going to be a complete hit or miss. Players like him are always going to be. Ones that have great athletic ability, but haven't played since HS. Duke hadn't ever really proved himself.

Obviously, or so it seems to Shanny, Duke was a miss.

Dumervil is compared to Freeney because he played against a similar level of competition, got roughly the same stats, and is roughly the same size.

And I'm really tired of people saying,''All of Dumervil's stats came against weak teams.'' 20 sacks is 20 sacks, people. I didn't know half of Louisville's schedule was against Div. II schools. No one seemed to say anything when Suggs was manhandled all day by 18-year old Ritchie Incognito, when he racked up 20+ sacks.

And to top this thought off, Hayward had a bunch of sacks in his last season for us against nobody teams in games that didn't matter (such as Tennessee), but that didn't stop him from being considered a premiere pash rusher in the free agency and then proving he was while playing in Jacksonville.

[Nick7]

At least get your facts straight. 5.0+ 40 time? Sorry, but he ran a 4.86 at his pro day and his real time is actually a little faster than that (he has been timed at around 4.7-4.75).

Probably true, but somewhere on ESPN, they said he ran something like a 5.06. Maybe it waas unofficial.

[GridironChamp]

The last half of the season? Do mean when he was constantly getting double teamed because teams recognized his ability.

He's not much of a hit or miss player because he has already proven himself, unlike Duke. I also liked how brought up speed. While Tamba has the size, I'm not sure his 5.0+ 40 is going to cut it, being that the NFL is based solely on size and speed...
When does a DE have to run 40 yards...

If you knew anything about Hali, they Chiefs drafted him for size and his 10 and 20 yard dashes. Thats more important as a DE and from what i've heard those times were good. :duh:

[GridironChamp]

Your comparison to Duke/Gates isn't neccessarily correlative to the Freeney/Dumervil comparion.

Duke was either going to be a complete hit or miss. Players like him are always going to be. Ones that have great athletic ability, but haven't played since HS. Duke hadn't ever really proved himself.

Obviously, or so it seems to Shanny, Duke was a miss.

Dumervil is compared to Freeney because he played against a similar level of competition, got roughly the same stats, and is roughly the same size.

And I'm really tired of people saying,''All of Dumervil's stats came against weak teams.'' 20 sacks is 20 sacks, people. I didn't know half of Louisville's schedule was against Div. II schools. No one seemed to say anything when Suggs was manhandled all day by 18-year old Ritchie Incognito, when he racked up 20+ sacks.

Thats where you said regardless of the competition...

So Nick, how does it feel to get owned by chief fans? :confused: .....again

[Nick7]

Thats where you said regardless of the competition...

So Nick, how does it feel to get owned by chief fans? :confused: .....again

Where in that sentence, do I say regardless of competition?


And I'm really tired of people saying,''All of Dumervil's stats came against weak teams.'' 20 sacks is 20 sacks, people. I didn't know half of Louisville's schedule was against Div. II schools.

The first sentence is about as direct as I can be. Is it not clear that I'm saying the teams he played against weren't weak?

I can't quite paraphrase this next sentence to a Quief fan's level of intelligence so....

Like I said before, if you had a brain you would've read my next sentence, in which I completely say that they ddn't play against wek teams all season (see: Chris Gocong).

[Nick7]

When does a DE have to run 40 yards...

If you knew anything about Hali, they Chiefs drafted him for size and his 10 and 20 yard dashes. Thats more important as a DE and from what i've heard those times were good. :duh:

What I do now about Hali, is that one negative about him was that he relied on pure strength and burst to get to the QB.

I've also heard he has poor upper body strength, which translates into not using their hands as well, something Dumervil is known for doing very well.

[topscribe]

When does a DE have to run 40 yards...
I agree with your comment about Hali. I also don't understand the comments toward Dumervil, saying that he is not particularly fast. They are talking about Dumervil's 40 time. The only thing is, when he gets past the blocker, he's about 5 yards from the QB. As you implied, what a DE needs is that burst . . . What he can do for 10 yards is what is important.

And a DE who gets 20 sacks in a season apparently can do a lot in 10 yards, wouldn't you say?

-----

[MTRaiderHater]

we don't want Trent Green to get hurt this season either, and we understand that these feable attempts to discredit one of best prospects at DE in this years draft are only expressions of concern for your aging QB who is going to be spending substantial time on his back this fall. :D

2006 FA is not the place for smack talk, so if you want to start calling names, there is a forum dedicated to precisely that.

[GridironChamp]

What I do now about Hali, is that one negative about him was that he relied on pure strength and burst to get to the QB.

I've also heard he has poor upper body strength, which translates into not using their hands as well, something Dumervil is known for doing very well.

First you said in that sentence the competition doesnt matter. If he played half bad teams then cut his sack count in half if Gocang doesnt count.

So would you rather count division AA schools or not? :confused:

Second how does "relies on strength" "poor upper body strength" and "not using haands well" work together? :confused:

You say he uses strength then say he isnt strong and that some how means bad hands....And from what i've heard he used hands well when not in the clinch. (like Dumervile)

[GridironChamp]

we don't want Trent Green to get hurt this season either, and we understand that these feable attempts to discredit one of best prospects at DE in this years draft are only expressions of concern for your aging QB who is going to be spending substantial time on his back this fall. :D

2006 FA is not the place for smack talk, so if you want to start calling names, there is a forum dedicated to precisely that.

Sounds like your jealous that i get Green and your stuck with Plummer....

LMAO a guy goes in the third round and he is a "best DE prospect" what Homer Fairy world do you live in? :confused:



Top i dont recall calling Elvis slow, if i did im sure i misstyped the post. I was just telling him thatt 40 times dont matter for a DE that much.

[topscribe]

Sounds like your jealous that i get Green and your stuck with Plummer....

LMAO a guy goes in the third round and he is a "best DE prospect" what Homer Fairy world do you live in? :confused:



Top i dont recall calling Elvis slow, if i did im sure i misstyped the post. I was just telling him thatt 40 times dont matter for a DE that much.
Try reading a little closer, GC. I was agreeing with you on the speed thing.

Regarding a "best prospect" in the third round, I can't help but to think back to Jerry Rice, Joe Montana, Karl Mecklenberg . . . . you know, guys like that. I'm not saying Dumervil is a "best prospect," but it would be wise to see how they perfom on the field before you pooh-pooh the idea.

Regarding the Green/Plummer remark, I might remind you that their stats are very close to each other . . . . except for the W-L record. ;)

-----

[Nick7]

First you said in that sentence the competition doesnt matter. If he played half bad teams then cut his sack count in half if Gocang doesnt count.

So would you rather count division AA schools or not? :confused:

Second how does "relies on strength" "poor upper body strength" and "not using haands well" work together? :confused:

You say he uses strength then say he isnt strong and that some how means bad hands....And from what i've heard he used hands well when not in the clinch. (like Dumervile)


OMFG! When did I say the competition didn't matter?

I don't think you understood what I was saying. When I said....


I didn't know half of Louisville's schedule was against Div. II schools.

...I didn't mean that they really played Div. II schools...

You do know that strength doesn't only come from your upper body, right? He relies on strength in his legs to get the burst.

Because he has poor upper body strength (17 reps of 225), he has trouble using his hands because he can't focus solely on his hand when engaged.

[GridironChamp]

Try reading a little closer, GC. I was agreeing with you on the speed thing.

Regarding a "best prospect" in the third round, I can't help but to think back to Jerry Rice, Joe Montana, Karl Mecklenberg . . . . you know, guys like that. I'm not saying Dumervil is a "best prospect," but it would be wise to see how they perfom on the field before you pooh-pooh the idea.

Regarding the Green/Plummer remark, I might remind you that their stats are very close to each other . . . . except for the W-L record. ;)

-----
Yeah but add up the last 3 years and Green will emerge with a decent margain of vicotry in most catagories, except INT's.

Yeah you named 3 guys top, not to mention the many more in your head but how many of the third rounders did nothing in the NFL? :confused: Probably alot more than did good would be my guess. yes there are diamonds in the rough, but they are in the rought. Meaning they will be hard to find. ;)

[GridironChamp]

OMFG! When did I say the competition didn't matter?

I don't think you understood what I was saying. When I said....

[QUOTE=Nick7] I didn't know half of Louisville's schedule was against Div. II schools. [QUOTE/]

...I didn't mean that they really played Div. II schools...

You do know that strength doesn't only come from your upper body, right? He relies on strength in his legs to get the burst.

Because he has poor upper body strength (17 reps of 225), he has trouble using his hands because he can't focus solely on his hand when engaged.
Strength and hands dont have nothin to do with each other. Yes they compliment each other and maybe technique of one can hurt the other but strength or use of hands cant hurt them. He uses his hands good, he can controle the blocker, until clinched. THen thats when his strength (after the originol burst) plays a part to him getting stopped alot more than if he was strong. But strength can be built up, more time in the gym, body size and style cant. Your stuck with your build, and Hali has a good build for a DE and Dumbervile doesnt.



FYI- that doesnt mean he will suck, i cant find you any complete facts about Dumbervile that will say he sucks, Its just a feeling, like i had with Duke. All info i was presented with said Duke was the next Gates but look what he did ;)
*note- i hope someone comes and says Duke wasnt proven, cause i will gladly and i mean gladly show them the threads that went on here about Duke and how thrashed i got for not believing he will be the next Gates.

[Nick7]

Strength and hands dont have nothin to do with each other. Yes they compliment each other and maybe technique of one can hurt the other but strength or use of hands cant hurt them. He uses his hands good, he can controle the blocker, until clinched. THen thats when his strength (after the originol burst) plays a part to him getting stopped alot more than if he was strong. But strength can be built up, more time in the gym, body size and style cant. Your stuck with your build, and Hali has a good build for a DE and Dumbervile doesnt.






Alright, apparently, you have never played D-line before. If his upper body strength is poor, his abilty to punch (no literally) is impaired due to a lack of strength.

Once again, I like how y'all stray away from my main point.

[PJDIII]

And to top this thought off, Hayward had a bunch of sacks in his last season for us against nobody teams in games that didn't matter (such as Tennessee), but that didn't stop him from being considered a premiere pash rusher in the free agency and then proving he was while playing in Jacksonville.


But he was on a real defensive line in jacksonville. two tackles that could find there ass with both hands. he got lucky in the move had he stayed in denver he would have been hit and miss depending on who he played against. kc would have swallowed him whole. might have gotten lucky against oakland

[PJDIII]

What I do now about Hali, is that one negative about him was that he relied on pure strength and burst to get to the QB.

I've also heard he has poor upper body strength, which translates into not using their hands as well, something Dumervil is known for doing very well.

against big east teams and who knows how many D-2 teams.

[Nick7]

against big east teams and who knows how many D-2 teams.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/teamsched?teamId=97&year=2005

Hmm, I'm not seeing all the D-II teams you were talking about, but w/e....

[Colorado69]

Since you obviously do not know why the Broncos cut Duke, I'll let you know. He had suspect knees from the very beginning and has had several surgeries on them already. If Duke had broken his wrist, or seperated a shoulder, the reaction to his injury might have been different. But, since it was ANOTHER knee injury, the team stopped pursuing him as a project. Your comment, "Its just a feeling, like i had with Duke." is not the brightest expression, since you were unaware of the facts behind the main reason for Duke's failure and resulting cut. You don't know any more about Dumervil than you knew about Duke. You and your buddy Chef fan are "out-to-lunch" again, since you have failed to learn about the subject prior to jumping onto the board and making a fool of yourself. The Bronco defensive linemen have commented on Dumervil's abilities and are impressed because he already has a wide variety of techniques that he employees with great effects. Tamba Hali has the weakness of inexperience at the position and several reports expressed his lack of techniques, slow getting-off at the snap, inability to express good football instincts and learn to read keys, inconsistency, and tending to play upright. Several analysts called the draft pick a reach at the point he was chosen. For you two Chef fans to degrade Dumervil is rediculas. Calling a Bronco fan expressing pleasure over the play of a Bronco rookie a "homer" is a bit hypicritical on your part. I hope you realize that your comments are not respected because you haven't backed them with any facts whatsoever. I guess that just makes you guys Anit-Bronco Homers. You need to make some sense when you post. Oh, I forgot, if you had any sense you wouldn't be Chef fans!!!!

[GridironChamp]

Since you obviously do not know why the Broncos cut Duke, I'll let you know. He had suspect knees from the very beginning and has had several surgeries on them already. If Duke had broken his wrist, or seperated a shoulder, the reaction to his injury might have been different. But, since it was ANOTHER knee injury, the team stopped pursuing him as a project. Your comment, "Its just a feeling, like i had with Duke." is not the brightest expression, since you were unaware of the facts behind the main reason for Duke's failure and resulting cut. You don't know any more about Dumervil than you knew about Duke. You and your buddy Chef fan are "out-to-lunch" again, since you have failed to learn about the subject prior to jumping onto the board and making a fool of yourself. The Bronco defensive linemen have commented on Dumervil's abilities and are impressed because he already has a wide variety of techniques that he employees with great effects. Tamba Hali has the weakness of inexperience at the position and several reports expressed his lack of techniques, slow getting-off at the snap, inability to express good football instincts and learn to read keys, inconsistency, and tending to play upright. Several analysts called the draft pick a reach at the point he was chosen. For you two Chef fans to degrade Dumervil is rediculas. Calling a Bronco fan expressing pleasure over the play of a Bronco rookie a "homer" is a bit hypicritical on your part. I hope you realize that your comments are not respected because you haven't backed them with any facts whatsoever. I guess that just makes you guys Anit-Bronco Homers. You need to make some sense when you post. Oh, I forgot, if you had any sense you wouldn't be Chef fans!!!!

A typical clueless homer Bronco fan.....
before DUke when to NFLE the Broncos said that this was Duke's last chance to prove that he is worth a spot the team.

And Wesely DUke sucked in NFLE and add his knee injury it leads to aa bust.


ANd who said Hali was a BEAST? i never did, and how do we have no facts? Im pretty sure Kmart and me proved all we need to.... IF sacks are sacks the Gocangs is best DE out of college :duh:

Talk aboutt making a fool of yourself i dont think you even read the thread....


SO please o please research before you ever try to insult again HOMER

[topscribe]

I was trying to find the 2006 Draft and Free Agency forum . . .

-----

[GridironChamp]

I was trying to find the 2006 Draft and Free Agency forum . . .

-----

ur there top, its just a heated disagreemeent ;)

[topscribe]

ur there top, its just a heated disagreemeent ;)
Yes, I know a couple guys who know all about those.

You might ask them about it when they get back . . . ;)



*just trying to be a friend* :cheers:

-----

[kmartin575]

What I do now about Hali, is that one negative about him was that he relied on pure strength and burst to get to the QB.

I've also heard he has poor upper body strength, which translates into not using their hands as well, something Dumervil is known for doing very well.

While Tamba Hali isn't the strongest or fastest guy out there, I compare his workout numbers to those of Jared Allen's coming out of college.

Jared Allen:
4.88 40 yard dash
13 reps of 225 bench press

Tamba Hali:
4.86 40 yard dash (has been timed faster though)
18 reps of the 225 bench press

Jared Allen seems to be incredibly weak and slow, yet that hasn't stopped him from gaining 20 sacks and 7 forced fumbles already in his NFL career, something that most defensive ends never do in there first couple of years. Tamba Hali has the same non stop motor that Jared Allen has so I have no reason to believe that he cannot be just as good if not better than Allen. He is certainly a better athlete than Jared Allen.

[GridironChamp]

Yes, I know a couple guys who know all about those.

You might ask them about it when they get back . . . ;)



*just trying to be a friend* :cheers:

-----

Well i guess top thats a good point :salute:

[Nick7]

While Tamba Hali isn't the strongest or fastest guy out there, I compare his workout numbers to those of Jared Allen's coming out of college.

Jared Allen:
4.88 40 yard dash
13 reps of 225 bench press

Tamba Hali:
4.86 40 yard dash (has been timed faster though)
18 reps of the 225 bench press

Jared Allen seems to be incredibly weak and slow, yet that hasn't stopped him from gaining 20 sacks and 7 forced fumbles already in his NFL career, something that most defensive ends never do in there first couple of years. Tamba Hali has the same non stop motor that Jared Allen has so I have no reason to believe that he cannot be just as good if not better than Allen. He is certainly a better athlete than Jared Allen.

Elvis Dumervil:
4.68 40 yard dash
29 reps of 225 bench press

Does this mean Dumervil is twice as strong as Allen?

And because his numbers are better than both of theirs', he will much better than
Allen.


:confused:

[kmartin575]

Elvis Dumervil:
4.68 40 yard dash
29 reps of 225 bench press

Does this mean Dumervil is twice as strong as Allen?

And because his numbers are better than both of theirs', he will much better than
Allen.


:confused:

You're not getting my point. Jared Allen should be a crappy player if you just base his play off of his workout numbers. However, he has produced more than most defensive ends do in there first two years in the league. DE Mike Kudla should be the best DE out there since he did 44 or 45 reps, right? Wrong. Good workout numbers does not always make a good player. Tamba Hali was the best DE prospect in this years draft after Mario Williams.

[Colorado69]

It doesn't show much brainpower to go to another team's post and try and convence them that their rookie sucks while your rookie is destined for greatness. As for your buddy homer agreeing with you, two peas in a pod and the pod won how many playoff games last year? You haven't proven anything and you haven't backed up your biased claims with facts. Your BS may work back on the Chef board, but here you have to use real facts and not your version of fantasy to prove your point. Hali was drafted higher than expected and has many problems to overcome to be a useful player in the NFL. Most defensive linemen come into the league with little or no technique established. Dumervil is an exception, according to his teammates, as he has already shown several different methods and moves to enhance his pass-rushing abilities. Hali is not very experienced, is inconsistent, and needs to learn several new techniques to have a chance at success in the NFL. You and your BBQ-friend attempt to degrade Dumervil when you obviously know very little about him. Read and listen to at least some of the reports and videos before trying to say something factual. You haven't done your homework, so go back to KC and try and find some facts before you foolishly make unfounded assertions. As Dimervil and Hali are both just raw rookies, no one knows how they will turn out, but at least use facts and not biased opinions to try and make your point.

[Nick7]

You're not getting my point. Jared Allen should be a crappy player if you just base his play off of his workout numbers. However, he has produced more than most defensive ends do in there first two years in the league. DE Mike Kudla should be the best DE out there since he did 44 or 45 reps, right? Wrong. Good workout numbers does not always make a good player. Tamba Hali was the best DE prospect in this years draft after Mario Williams.


I get what you're saying, but you're putting your trust in Hali because he has better numbers than someone who plays better than his numbers. You're disagreeing with yourself...

If you would've caught my drift in my last post, you would've realized that I know numbers aren't everything....

[kmartin575]

It doesn't show much brainpower to go to another team's post and try and convence them that their rookie sucks while your rookie is destined for greatness. As for your buddy homer agreeing with you, two peas in a pod and the pod won how many playoff games last year? You haven't proven anything and you haven't backed up your biased claims with facts. Your BS may work back on the Chef board, but here you have to use real facts and not your version of fantasy to prove your point. Hali was drafted higher than expected and has many problems to overcome to be a useful player in the NFL. Most defensive linemen come into the league with little or no technique established. Dumervil is an exception, according to his teammates, as he has already shown several different methods and moves to enhance his pass-rushing abilities. Hali is not very experienced, is inconsistent, and needs to learn several new techniques to have a chance at success in the NFL. You and your BBQ-friend attempt to degrade Dumervil when you obviously know very little about him. Read and listen to at least some of the reports and videos before trying to say something factual. You haven't done your homework, so go back to KC and try and find some facts before you foolishly make unfounded assertions. As Dimervil and Hali are both just raw rookies, no one knows how they will turn out, but at least use facts and not biased opinions to try and make your point.

I have been using facts. And I am not saying Dumervil is going to suck. I am saying that his 20 sacks last year will probably not translate to equal production in the NFL. However, thanks for the long rant. It was fun to read. :coffee:

[rcsodak]

A typical clueless homer Bronco fan.....
before DUke when to NFLE the Broncos said that this was Duke's last chance to prove that he is worth a spot the team.

And Wesely DUke sucked in NFLE and add his knee injury it leads to aa bust.


ANd who said Hali was a BEAST? i never did, and how do we have no facts? Im pretty sure Kmart and me proved all we need to.... IF sacks are sacks the Gocangs is best DE out of college :duh:

Talk aboutt making a fool of yourself i dont think you even read the thread....


SO please o please research before you ever try to insult again HOMER
I've yet to read any of your posts that show any facts.......this isn't an exception....


...please show us where the "Broncos said that this was Duke's last chance to prove that he is worth a spot on the team."

It's bad enough when Bronco fans try to put words into the organizations' collective mouths....... :rolleyes:

[kmartin575]

I've yet to read any of your posts that show any facts.......this isn't an exception....


...please show us where the "Broncos said that this was Duke's last chance to prove that he is worth a spot on the team."

It's bad enough when Bronco fans try to put words into the organizations' collective mouths....... :rolleyes:

Wow, i'm impressed. You're actually sparring with somebody else besides me.

[TXBRONC]

You're not getting my point. Jared Allen should be a crappy player if you just base his play off of his workout numbers. However, he has produced more than most defensive ends do in there first two years in the league. DE Mike Kudla should be the best DE out there since he did 44 or 45 reps, right? Wrong. Good workout numbers does not always make a good player. Tamba Hali was the best DE prospect in this years draft after Mario Williams.

Since when? Just because you say so? Mathias Kiwanuka was rated as better prospect that Hali.

[GridironChamp]

Since when? Just because you say so? Mathias Kiwanuka was rated as better prospect that Hali.

Yeah, rated by ESPN, or CBSsportsline, but do they have football teams to run? :confused:


I think Hali was second on Herm's chart or Peterson's. Doesnt mean he is the second best, just that to our orginization they think he will be. :salute:

[HolyDiver]

Yeah, rated by ESPN, or CBSsportsline, but do they have football teams to run? :confused:


I think Hali was second on Herm's chart or Peterson's. Doesnt mean he is the second best, just that to our orginization they think he will be. :salute:

Well duh............Anybody that has two arms and two legs would be good for THAT Defense. LOL !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry, that still makes me laugh when I use Chiefs and Defense in the same sentence.

[GridironChamp]

Well duh............Anybody that has two arms and two legs would be good for THAT Defense. LOL !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry, that still makes me laugh when I use Chiefs and Defense in the same sentence.

I know i guess you havnt read it when i tell you they are the 15th ranked D in the league, but thats your style no one elses :coffee:

[HolyDiver]

I know i guess you havnt read it when i tell you they are the 15th ranked D in the league, but thats your style no one elses :coffee:

15TH? Man, not THAT is something to be proud of..................LMAO

[Nick7]

I know i guess you havnt read it when i tell you they are the 15th ranked D in the league, but thats your style no one elses :coffee:



Tiki Barber seems to disagree...

[GridironChamp]

15TH? Man, not THAT is something to be proud of..................LMAO

Thats average :duh: man some people these days...



Nick, what do you think LJ thinks of you guys? definatly not a top 5 D :coffee:

[kmartin575]

Well duh............Anybody that has two arms and two legs would be good for THAT Defense. LOL !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry, that still makes me laugh when I use Chiefs and Defense in the same sentence.

Yeah, I guess the 16th ranked scoring defense is all that bad. I mean, we may have given up alot of yardage but we are middle of the pack as far as it comes to defense.

[HolyDiver]

Yeah, I guess the 16th ranked scoring defense is all that bad. I mean, we may have given up alot of yardage but we are middle of the pack as far as it comes to defense.


Middle of the pack....................LOL !!!!!!!!!!!! Um, I don't know if you know this or not. But middle of the pack teams are usually not very good. .................well...........like the Chiefs. If the Broncos don't have one of the top 3 Defenses this season, I'll consider that unacceptable. But middle of the pack looks good on you guys though. ...................I bet they throw in a free bowl of soup with that prestigious honor. :D

[TXBRONC]

Yeah, I guess the 16th ranked scoring defense is all that bad. I mean, we may have given up alot of yardage but we are middle of the pack as far as it comes to defense.

The pass defesne wasn't in the middle of the pack. If memory serves me correctly you all were ranked somewhere in the mid 20s.

[HolyDiver]

The pass defesne wasn't in the middle of the pack. If memory serves me correctly you all were ranked somewhere in the mid 20s.

Yeah, but that is good for them. They were probably doing cartwheels.

[Nick7]

Thats average :duh: man some people these days...



Nick, what do you think LJ thinks of you guys? definatly not a top 5 D
:coffee:

I'm sure he's more impressed by a team that routinely makes the playoffs...

[GridironChamp]

The pass defesne wasn't in the middle of the pack. If memory serves me correctly you all were ranked somewhere in the mid 20s.
We like 29th and you guys were like 27th so i would suggest to leave that one alone ;) :coffee:

[GridironChamp]

Middle of the pack....................LOL !!!!!!!!!!!! Um, I don't know if you know this or not. But middle of the pack teams are usually not very good. .................well...........like the Chiefs. If the Broncos don't have one of the top 3 Defenses this season, I'll consider that unacceptable. But middle of the pack looks good on you guys though. ...................I bet they throw in a free bowl of soup with that prestigious honor. :D

Hmmm with an average Defense the Chiefs miss the playoffs by one game, but the Broncos have a top 5 D and O and still get smoked at home in the playoffs.

I wonder how good the Chiefs would be with the number 3 ranked D.

[GridironChamp]

I'm sure he's more impressed by a team that routinely makes the playoffs...
yeah this post has alot to do with Tikie Barber and KC's defence and LJ and Broncos defence doesnt it? :confused: :goofy:

[Nick7]

Hmmm with an average Defense the Chiefs miss the playoffs by one game, but the Broncos have a top 5 D and O and still get smoked at home in the playoffs .

I wonder how good the Chiefs would be with the number 3 ranked D.



Key parts of that sentence.

[Nick7]

yeah this post has alot to do with Tikie Barber and KC's defence and LJ and Broncos defence doesnt it? :confused: :goofy:

Uhh, yes it does. Just tell me, who would you rather play for that year?

BTW, Tiki rushed for 200+ yards...LJ rushed for 140. Because we rotate backs so much, none of ours were able to compare to LJ that game, but we were only 9 yards away from that total.

Sure takes the gleam off that one a bit...:goofy:

[GridironChamp]

Uhh, yes it does. Just tell me, who would you rather play for that year?

BTW, Tiki rushed for 200+ yards...LJ rushed for 140. Because we rotate backs so much, none of ours were able to compare to LJ that game, but we were only 9 yards away from that total.

Sure takes the gleam off that one a bit...:goofy:
No it doesnt :duh:

LJ torched you guys like Tike torched us thats my point but i guess you cant but two and two together.

and figures you didnt even read the sentence you just skipped to your 1 minded part but thats typical for you Bronco fans

[kmartin575]

Uhh, yes it does. Just tell me, who would you rather play for that year?

BTW, Tiki rushed for 200+ yards...LJ rushed for 140. Because we rotate backs so much, none of ours were able to compare to LJ that game, but we were only 9 yards away from that total.

Sure takes the gleam off that one a bit...:goofy:

And as a team total the Chiefs rushed for just over 170 yards, so you were not as close. :coffee:

[Archimedes Owl]

This is one of them there forehead slapping threads.

I read post after post of bickering about silly things.

To start, yes, Hali was a reach at that point in the first round, but he was still rated at least a second rounder across the board. Most media had him as an early second rounder, but it's understandable that a hard working guy like him would be well sought after by the Chiefs. I think that their error was not trading back for another pretty high draft choice and still going after him.

Most of the scouts had Tali rated higher than Dumervil.

At the same time, Dumervil was exactly the type of guy that you want to go for in a fourth rounder. He's the type of guy that fell because of his size primarily. This means that it's entirely possible that he could be one of a whole bunch of guys to overcome their apparent weakness and have good careers in this league.

Dumervil does have good pass rushing moves, but he has a ton to prove before we even consider the possibility of him starting for us, let alone being a "beast".

Right now, as it stands, he's down behind several players on the depth chart.

A lot of scouts had Dumervil as a first day talent and we got him in the second day, so he could well be considered a steal.

Oh, and about Duke, Duke was an intriguing prospect who had a ton of potential because of his athletic ability and because of his size. I honestly believe that the coaches were considering starting him next year, but he has a long history of injuries to his knees and this new one may have ended his chance at having an NFL career.

I don't know any fans that expected him to be like Gates. Of course, like every team, we have some homers, so I'm sure that such fans existed, but more it was a case of wishful thinking than realistic expectations. We pointed to Gates to show that it is entirely possible.

As for the Chief's defense, it was not bad last year. It was nowhere close to as good as ours, but it was improved from prior years. And because their offense is just so damn good (And it really is that good), their defense doesn't need to be fantastic for their team to be good.

Here is my full analysis of their defense from a prior thread:


Passing Defense: They allowed the 13th lowest completion percentage in the league last year and the 27th yards per completion. They pulled in the 14th most interceptions, but still only got the 26th most sacks. They allowed the 21st lowest QB rating.

Their pass defense was bad again this year, but it improved from last year when it was horrible. If they get Ty Law, there's a chance that it could improve to below average or even average.

According to DVOA, the Chiefs actually ranked 5th in DVOA against first WR. They ranked 24th against #2 WR, and they were also horrible against TEs and RBs in the passing game.

Patrick Surtain did very well for them last year. Ty Law would also help them quite a bit and Hermy should help them too, but it would be shocking to see them have a huge improvment in the passing game next year even if they land Law. Their front four isn't as good as desired.


Rushing Defense: Kansas City ranked 20th allowing 4.1 yards per carry last year. Of course, with an offense like theirs, their lack of a run defense matters a bit less. They still allowed the seventh fewest total rushing yards.

Their first round pick in the draft was a defensive end who is supposed to be good against the run and the pass, but who most people had a second round prospect. He might help their pass and run defense a bit. Probably not tons, but he'll likely help a bit.


By the way, you Chiefs fans have got to stop complaining about all of the Broncos homers. Argue your point with them that they are unrealistic in their thinking, but also realize that every team has homer fans. They will always exist.

Well, actually, teams like Arizona probably have less optimistic fans, but Denver has a lot of homer fans that expect a lot of undrafted free agents and late round picks because we've had some success in the past.

But, tell me that you guys don't have some fans that expect every draft pick to be good players and are disappointed when they aren't. Sure, they're in the minority, but every team has homers. Just keep that in mind and don't let that fact get you bent out of shape. :salute:

[BroncodogPG]

Wow, people are putting so much stock in Dumerville be a stud because of "in commons" he has with a good player.

You the know the last Bronco that had alot of "in commons" with a good player was Wesely Duke. And some homer fans are gonna keep telling you he was released due to knee surgerory. Well if he was the next Gates im pretty sure you would keep him on IR until he is better :duh: His performance in NFLE was his last chance to prove to Denver that he deserved to be there, and obvisiouly he didnt.

So my point?
SOmetimes i may be wrong, most the time i will be right ;) But the last a situation like Dumerville came up i was right, and i think i will be this time. Dumerville might serve as a great 3rd down Pass Rush DE, but nothing more, and he can power rush like Freeny. Freeny may use his speed mostely but he will bull rush you if your on your heels. If Dumerville does that, he gets inside big Tackles and get manhandled.Stop Hatin slim, Tamba Hali is undersized too and if you watch college ball Dummervil looked way better than Hali, you'll see when he sacks pops (Trent Green ) on ThanksGiving! GO BRONCOS!

[Nick7]

No it doesnt :duh:

My point is, look how far you guys got with that one win against us. Your great defense didn't get you to the playoffs, even though y'all have one of the best offenses in the league. We didn't get to the AFC championship soley on our offense. Just incase you, or your grandpa, didn't remember, the AFC championship is one step away from the superbowl (somewhere you were about 30-40 yrs ago?).


LJ torched you guys like Tike torched us thats my point but i guess you cant but two and two together.

True, LJ had a great game. I don't know if ''torched'' is the correct term for his performance, though. First of all, more than half of his yards were in the 4th quarter. Not that they didn't count...but that shows that his runs were gained at big chunks at a time, which isn't really consistent (once again, not that they didn't count ;)). In you encounter with the Giants, Tiki rushed for 220 yards. LJ got roughly two-thirds of that. LJ's came from big holes being opened up, Tiki's came from power-running in which he broke many tackles. Tiki was also consistent throughout the game, unlike LJ. This isn't really a matter of ''putting two and two together.''




and figures you didnt even read the sentence you just skipped to your 1 minded part but thats typical for you Bronco fans

I think you're confusing yourself...

[Nick7]

And as a team total the Chiefs rushed for just over 170 yards, so you were not as close. :coffee:

Well if you want to ccompare totals for LJ:Bronco Backs, it would be 140:116...

...because we were down much of the time, we passed more and didn't really run as much....

[kmartin575]

This is one of them there forehead slapping threads.

I read post after post of bickering about silly things.

To start, yes, Hali was a reach at that point in the first round, but he was still rated at least a second rounder across the board. Most media had him as an early second rounder, but it's understandable that a hard working guy like him would be well sought after by the Chiefs. I think that their error was not trading back for another pretty high draft choice and still going after him.

Most of the scouts had Tali rated higher than Dumervil.

At the same time, Dumervil was exactly the type of guy that you want to go for in a fourth rounder. He's the type of guy that fell because of his size primarily. This means that it's entirely possible that he could be one of a whole bunch of guys to overcome their apparent weakness and have good careers in this league.

Dumervil does have good pass rushing moves, but he has a ton to prove before we even consider the possibility of him starting for us, let alone being a "beast".

Right now, as it stands, he's down behind several players on the depth chart.

A lot of scouts had Dumervil as a first day talent and we got him in the second day, so he could well be considered a steal.

Oh, and about Duke, Duke was an intriguing prospect who had a ton of potential because of his athletic ability and because of his size. I honestly believe that the coaches were considering starting him next year, but he has a long history of injuries to his knees and this new one may have ended his chance at having an NFL career.

I don't know any fans that expected him to be like Gates. Of course, like every team, we have some homers, so I'm sure that such fans existed, but more it was a case of wishful thinking than realistic expectations. We pointed to Gates to show that it is entirely possible.

As for the Chief's defense, it was not bad last year. It was nowhere close to as good as ours, but it was improved from prior years. And because their offense is just so damn good (And it really is that good), their defense doesn't need to be fantastic for their team to be good.

Here is my full analysis of their defense from a prior thread:



By the way, you Chiefs fans have got to stop complaining about all of the Broncos homers. Argue your point with them that they are unrealistic in their thinking, but also realize that every team has homer fans. They will always exist.

Well, actually, teams like Arizona probably have less optimistic fans, but Denver has a lot of homer fans that expect a lot of undrafted free agents and late round picks because we've had some success in the past.

But, tell me that you guys don't have some fans that expect every draft pick to be good players and are disappointed when they aren't. Sure, they're in the minority, but every team has homers. Just keep that in mind and don't let that fact get you bent out of shape. :salute:

Once again, great post.

[GridironChamp]

Stop Hatin slim, Tamba Hali is undersized too and if you watch college ball Dummervil looked way better than Hali, you'll see when he sacks pops (Trent Green ) on ThanksGiving! GO BRONCOS!

Hali is undersize? that shows the inteligence here..... :coffee:

[Nick7]

Hali is undersize? that shows the inteligence here..... :coffee:

Yeah, I gotta agree with ya there. 275 is about perfect for DE.

Hell, I don't think Jason Taylor, Derrick Burgess, Simeon Rice, or Jevon Kearse think so either.

[GridironChamp]

Yeah, I gotta agree with ya there. 275 is about perfect for DE.

Hell, I don't think Jason Taylor, Derrick Burgess, Simeon Rice, or Jevon Kearse think so either.
WHOOT :beer: we finally agree on something :beer:

[Nick7]

WHOOT :beer: we finally agree on something :beer:

Hell yeah! :beer:

[kmartin575]

Stop Hatin slim, Tamba Hali is undersized too and if you watch college ball Dummervil looked way better than Hali, you'll see when he sacks pops (Trent Green ) on ThanksGiving! GO BRONCOS!

Actually 6'3" 275 isn't undersized. He may be shorter than what some would like but he has great size. Dumervil was way better than Hali? Then why is it that at the Senior Bowl Dumervil got his ass handed to him while Hali had two sacks in the game and was the defensive MVP. Tamba Hali has only been playing DE for two years and is already better than Dumervil.

[maruske845]

yeah i think he will be a beast as well and i hope he is with the broncos for it all too

[GridironChamp]

Actually 6'3" 275 isn't undersized. He may be shorter than what some would like but he has great size. Dumervil was way better than Hali? Then why is it that at the Senior Bowl Dumervil got his ass handed to him while Hali had two sacks in the game and was the defensive MVP. Tamba Hali has only been playing DE for two years and is already better than Dumervil.

Well idk about all of that, but also there must be some reason Hali went in the firs and was a second round prospect and Dumbervile was a 3rd or 4th rounder.

[topscribe]

Well idk about all of that, but also there must be some reason Hali went in the firs and was a second round prospect and Dumbervile was a 3rd or 4th rounder.
I have seen this several times on the board now, regarding given players.



And I keep thinking of Jerry Rice, Joe Montana, Karl Mecklenberg, Rod Smith, Tom Brady . . . .

-----

[GridironChamp]

I have seen this several times on the board now, regarding given players.



And I keep thinking of Jerry Rice, Joe Montana, Karl Mecklenberg, Rod Smith, Tom Brady . . . .

-----
I think of Kevin Bently, Jeff Chandler, Eric Kelly Marvin Minnis, and Travis Prentice...



Know any of those guys besides Minnis who doesnt play anymore? :confused: NO the point.....Some players are a diamond in the rough but most arent. :wave: bye

[Fan in exile]

I think of Kevin Bently, Jeff Chandler, Eric Kelly Marvin Minnis, and Travis Prentice...



Know any of those guys besides Minnis who doesnt play anymore? :confused: NO the point.....Some players are a diamond in the rough but most arent. :wave: bye

Champ, I would probably be willing to listen to you, if you weren't so wrong in your sig. Duke was cut because he got hurt that's it.

We also know why Dumerville dropped in the draft, and that was his size. He has the speed and the moves. I'm looking forward to seeing how far his motor can take him, whether it's pass rush specialist or full time beast.

[GridironChamp]

Champ, I would probably be willing to listen to you, if you weren't so wrong in your sig. Duke was cut because he got hurt that's it.

We also know why Dumerville dropped in the draft, and that was his size. He has the speed and the moves. I'm looking forward to seeing how far his motor can take him, whether it's pass rush specialist or full time beast.

Yeah the injury affected his sad, sad, sad performence in NFLE right? :confused:


I think he will be a pass rush specialist, now yes he can be good at it but i dont think he will play every down.

[Fan in exile]

Yeah the injury affected his sad, sad, sad performence in NFLE right? :confused:


I think he will be a pass rush specialist, now yes he can be good at it but i dont think he will play every down.

Champ, you are right to use the confused smiley because you clearly are confused. Your sig says that Duke was cut because of a sad performance in NFLE. This is a false statement. You actually should find out if it was a sad performance there. Take a little while and find out what the Broncos wanted from him, and what he produced. Simply cutting and pasting some stats isn't going to do it, you have to dig deeper than that. Also try figuring out how NFLE is different from the NFL.

Your lack of understanding Duke really leads me to believe that Dumerville will be an every down player.

[GridironChamp]

Champ, you are right to use the confused smiley because you clearly are confused. Your sig says that Duke was cut because of a sad performance in NFLE. This is a false statement. You actually should find out if it was a sad performance there. Take a little while and find out what the Broncos wanted from him, and what he produced. Simply cutting and pasting some stats isn't going to do it, you have to dig deeper than that. Also try figuring out how NFLE is different from the NFL.

Your lack of understanding Duke really leads me to believe that Dumerville will be an every down player.
What are you talking about? Duke sucked in NFLE...

If you cant cut it there how could you do good in the NFL? :confused:
Dude you sound extremely stupid now, you did good with the injury part, that has seemed to be a bigger impact than it was in the firs couple articles...
BUT that doesnt change the fact that he cant play like some peopl hoped. He was a project that never got finished, because of A- an injury and B more importantly a bad, very bad performence...9 catches 1 TD 89 yards for the next Gates in NFLE...That sounds like stats of a player that needs to be cut, o wait he already was :coffee:

[Fan in exile]

What are you talking about? Duke sucked in NFLE...

If you cant cut it there how could you do good in the NFL? :confused:
Dude you sound extremely stupid now, you did good with the injury part, that has seemed to be a bigger impact than it was in the firs couple articles...
BUT that doesnt change the fact that he cant play like some peopl hoped. He was a project that never got finished, because of A- an injury and B more importantly a bad, very bad performence...9 catches 1 TD 89 yards for the next Gates in NFLE...That sounds like stats of a player that needs to be cut, o wait he already was :coffee:

Ah, Champ you didn't listen, I even pointed out that you should do more than cut and paste some stats.

Goodbye, and thanks for all the fish.

[GridironChamp]

Ah, Champ you didn't listen, I even pointed out that you should do more than cut and paste some stats.

Goodbye, and thanks for all the fish.
Oh man i know, his performence has nothing to do with his catches yards and TD's...

LOL what else to base performance on there smart guy?

NVM you ran off cause you cant think of anything good to say

[kmartin575]

Well idk about all of that, but also there must be some reason Hali went in the firs and was a second round prospect and Dumbervile was a 3rd or 4th rounder.

Hali played defensive tackle for his first couple of years at Penn State and he just switched to DE in the past couple of years.

[GridironChamp]

Hali played defensive tackle for his first couple of years at Penn State and he just switched to DE in the past couple of years.
Yeah i heard something along those lines, but how good will he do in the NFL playing DE is still a question mark. But so is any other rookie

[Fan in exile]

Oh man i know, his performence has nothing to do with his catches yards and TD's...

LOL what else to base performance on there smart guy?

NVM you ran off cause you cant think of anything good to say

I know that I shouldn't respond, because I really don't think you're capable of getting the point, since you have so clearly dug in your heels but here goes.

First we already knew that he could catch that was never the question with Duke. The question was could he block. What you seem to be so clearly forgetting is that in Denver's system blocking is the number one skill a TE needs, he isn't a Wide Reciever after all. This is why Alexander was the number one guy all last year when Putz was getting all the catches.

In NFLE they don't fight for the starting position the way they do in the NFL since the goal is to get the guys reps and you have guys coming from different teams. The Redskins would have been pissed if ****erson didn't get any Reps. So all the #2 position in NFLE means is that he played the 2nd and 4th quarters iirc. That plus a much shorter season means that he just isn't going to put up great catching numbers by NFL standards. In addition to this his reps came with Brock Berlin as QB who just isn't that good.

This is why I told you to look at what The Broncos' needed him to learn in NFLE. He needed to work on his blocking, which he did. This is why you can't just post his stats because they don't show blocking. Keep in mind he did start the AFC championship game for a reason.

You really just don't seem to understand what goes on, on the field this is why I can't take your comments about Dumerville seriously.

[GridironChamp]

I know that I shouldn't respond, because I really don't think you're capable of getting the point, since you have so clearly dug in your heels but here goes.

First we already knew that he could catch that was never the question with Duke. The question was could he block. What you seem to be so clearly forgetting is that in Denver's system blocking is the number one skill a TE needs, he isn't a Wide Reciever after all. This is why Alexander was the number one guy all last year when Putz was getting all the catches.

In NFLE they don't fight for the starting position the way they do in the NFL since the goal is to get the guys reps and you have guys coming from different teams. The Redskins would have been pissed if ****erson didn't get any Reps. So all the #2 position in NFLE means is that he played the 2nd and 4th quarters iirc. That plus a much shorter season means that he just isn't going to put up great catching numbers by NFL standards. In addition to this his reps came with Brock Berlin as QB who just isn't that good.

This is why I told you to look at what The Broncos' needed him to learn in NFLE. He needed to work on his blocking, which he did. This is why you can't just post his stats because they don't show blocking. Keep in mind he did start the AFC championship game for a reason.

You really just don't seem to understand what goes on, on the field this is why I can't take your comments about Dumerville seriously.

LOL, this is a good excuse for someone trying to player from looking bad. "his performence doesnt matter, only his blocking" if thats the case then why not just keep Alexander.

I dont understand how homeristic someone can be towards a player that isnt NFL material. Its just unbielivable. O ya and show me proof that his blocking is better and show me proof that he can catch :wave: bye again cause you wont be back

[DrewB]

Well idk about all of that, but also there must be some reason Hali went in the firs and was a second round prospect and Dumbervile was a 3rd or 4th rounder.


He went late in the 4th...Now you can quit guessing :duh:

Boy for a Dumerville expert you sure need to do more homework.

[Fan in exile]

LOL, this is a good excuse for someone trying to player from looking bad. "his performence doesnt matter, only his blocking" if thats the case then why not just keep Alexander.

I dont understand how homeristic someone can be towards a player that isnt NFL material. Its just unbielivable. O ya and show me proof that his blocking is better and show me proof that he can catch :wave: bye again cause you wont be back

I knew I never should have responded, you misquote and then attack me. You clearly aren't worth it. I tried to explain what a TE does but you just didn't get it.

[GridironChamp]

He went late in the 4th...Now you can quit guessing :duh:

Boy for a Dumerville expert you sure need to do more homework.
Now see Drew, leave it to a Donkey fan to try and talk smack over a compliment... :salute:


And thx i never really thought i was and expert but i guess since i am you all are wrong and im right....again :goofy:

[GridironChamp]

I knew I never should have responded, you misquote and then attack me. You clearly aren't worth it. I tried to explain what a TE does but you just didn't get it.
See now that you lost for about the third time in this thread your just gonna attack me and not the situation.

A true HOMER that cant talk smack :salute: <-- My Props to you for sticking to your style

[topscribe]

I think of Kevin Bently, Jeff Chandler, Eric Kelly Marvin Minnis, and Travis Prentice...



Know any of those guys besides Minnis who doesnt play anymore? :confused: NO the point.....Some players are a diamond in the rough but most arent. :wave: bye
YOU mentioned the KEY WORD there: "MOST." Now, if you could say NONE were, then you might be onto something. But you are saying "most weren't," then you are using that to try to establish as a FACT that Dumervil won't be as good as Hali. You cannot say that, my friend. Unless you're pretty handy with those tea leaves . . .

-----

[GridironChamp]

YOU mentioned the KEY WORD there: "MOST." Now, if you could say NONE were, then you might be onto something. But you are saying "most weren't," then you are using that to try to establish as a FACT that Dumervil won't be as good as Hali. You cannot say that, my friend. Unless you're pretty handy with those tea leaves . . .

-----
I never said Dumbervile wont be as good as Hali, but where you get drafted can tell you alot about how a player will do. There are alot players that do good that are drafted in round 4 or later, but there are a ton more that do nothing.

So you saying Dumbervile will be better has to be completely false. Now you didnt say that nor did i say that Hali will be better because of that.
But i think Hali will be a better all around DE because of his size and style of play. Now i havnt seen either play enough, to say for sure that he will be better. But from the few and i mean few unbiased articles or radio shows i've heard talk about either one i think as of now my opinion is with Hali of being the best all around DE of the two.

[DrewB]

Now see Drew, leave it to a Donkey fan to try and talk smack over a compliment... :salute:


And thx i never really thought i was and expert but i guess since i am you all are wrong and im right....again :goofy:


HEHE...well if your not a an expert you must be a psychic. :confused:

You should really sell your "HE'S A BUST" sense to all the NFL teams,you could make a fortune.

Just tell them your credentials "umm I went to the Bronco Board and said an undrafted free agent TE was going to be a bust,and I was right"

Your on your way GC keep up the good work..and don't forget about us little guys when you make it big

[topscribe]

I never said Dumbervile wont be as good as Hali, but where you get drafted can tell you alot about how a player will do. There are alot players that do good that are drafted in round 4 or later, but there are a ton more that do nothing.

So you saying Dumbervile will be better has to be completely false. Now you didnt say that nor did i say that Hali will be better because of that.
But i think Hali will be a better all around DE because of his size and style of play. Now i havnt seen either play enough, to say for sure that he will be better. But from the few and i mean few unbiased articles or radio shows i've heard talk about either one i think as of now my opinion is with Hali of being the best all around DE of the two.
I don't know where you got that I said Dumervil (without the "b") would be better.

I don't know where you got that.

But if your misspelling of Dumervil's name is intentional, you are in the wrong forum.

If you want to talk football, then talk it. If you want to smack, go to Smack.

-----

[T8KNOVR]

Now i havnt seen either play enough, to say for sure that he will be better. But from the few and i mean few unbiased articles or radio shows i've heard talk about either one i think as of now my opinion is with Hali of being the best all around DE of the two.


WHAT!!! You can't be serious, you are forming opinions from information you heard? Go look at some game tape little fella,. :duh:


LINK TO 2006 NFL PROSPECT VIDEO'S
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/prospects;_ylt=AoekR_VNQ1ZsgOADzgRRBJhDubYF?rank_t ype=2

[kmartin575]

WHAT!!! You can't be serious, you are forming opinions from information you heard? Go look at some game tape little fella,. :duh:


LINK TO 2006 NFL PROSPECT VIDEO'S
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/prospects;_ylt=AoekR_VNQ1ZsgOADzgRRBJhDubYF?rank_t ype=2

I am somebody who has seen game tape of the two and Tamba Hali is the better player.

[TD Machine]

I am somebody who has seen game tape of the two and Tamba Hali is the better player.
Looks like it's settled!

According to the statistics, awards, and performance, your statement is false. Hali was a REACH in the first round, we STOLE Elvis. But KC does tend to REACH for things.

[GridironChamp]

I don't know where you got that I said Dumervil (without the "b") would be better.

I don't know where you got that.

But if your misspelling of Dumervil's name is intentional, you are in the wrong forum.

If you want to talk football, then talk it. If you want to smack, go to Smack.

-----
Hey top, read what i wrote, i said you didnt say Dumbervile was better. But you said i said Hali was better so i just accused you of the same :duh:

ANd why can you say Jake the snake here without a problem but you gettin bent outta shape by this? :confused: :goofy:

[GridironChamp]

WHAT!!! You can't be serious, you are forming opinions from information you heard? Go look at some game tape little fella,. :duh:


LINK TO 2006 NFL PROSPECT VIDEO'S
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/prospects;_ylt=AoekR_VNQ1ZsgOADzgRRBJhDubYF?rank_t ype=2

Tape of players playing college players = Nothing playing NFL players :duh:

[GridironChamp]

Looks like it's settled!

According to the statistics, awards, and performance, your statement is false. Hali was a REACH in the first round, we STOLE Elvis. But KC does tend to REACH for things.

Well according to just about every anylisis Hali is better....every anylist had him going higher than Dumbervile so obvisiouly most people believe he will be better :duh:

[kmartin575]

Looks like it's settled!

According to the statistics, awards, and performance, your statement is false. Hali was a REACH in the first round, we STOLE Elvis. But KC does tend to REACH for things.

Hali wasn't considered a reach until his pro day. Before that most mock drafts had him going to the Falcons with the 15th pick.

[topscribe]

Hey top, read what i wrote, i said you didnt say Dumbervile was better. But you said i said Hali was better so i just accused you of the same :duh:

ANd why can you say Jake the snake here without a problem but you gettin bent outta shape by this? :confused: :goofy:
Hey GC, read what I wrote. I told you how to spell "Dumervil," and if you insist on nicknaming him, I told you all about the Smack forum.

Hey GC, read what I wrote. I DID NOT SAY YOU SAID HALI WAS BETTER!! I only reminded you that where a player is drafted does not necessarily indicate his level of success in the NFL. I said if you were saying that it does, THEN you are trying to establish that Hali is better than Dumervil (see how it's spelled?). Why not try to get my point, rather than inferring that I'm trying to start a debate with you?

Hey GC, read what I wrote. I don't say "Jake the Snake." I say "Jake" or "Plummer." Nonetheless, "Jake the Snake" is a compliment. "Dumbervile" is an insult.

-----

[GridironChamp]

Hey GC, read what I wrote. I told you how to spell "Dumervil," and if you insist on nicknaming him, I told you all about the Smack forum.

Hey GC, read what I wrote. I DID NOT SAY YOU SAID HALI WAS BETTER!! I only reminded you that where a player is drafted does not necessarily indicate his level of success in the NFL. I said if you were saying that it does, THEN you are trying to establish that Hali is better than Dumervil (see how it's spelled?). Why not try to get my point, rather than inferring that I'm trying to start a debate with you?

Hey GC, read what I wrote. I don't say "Jake the Snake." I say "Jake" or "Plummer." Nonetheless, "Jake the Snake" is a compliment. "Dumbervile" is an insult.

-----

Nicknames are nicknames for numbe 1, you cant allow some nicknames but not allow others.

Second i know what your saying top, and i simply was trying to tell you more often than not players that go in the first round are better than the players going in the fourth round.

[MTRaiderHater]

Nicknames are nicknames for numbe 1, you cant allow some nicknames but not allow others.

Second i know what your saying top, and i simply was trying to tell you more often than not players that go in the first round are better than the players going in the fourth round.


Really? How about these guys?

Trev Alberts, OLB, Nebraska (6th overall, Colts, 1994)
Anthony Bell, LB, Michigan State (5th overall, Cardinals, 1986)
Todd Blackledge, QB, Penn State (7th overall, Chiefs, 1983)
Bob Buczkowski, DE, Pittsburgh (24th overall, Raiders, 1986)
Rich Campbell, QB, California (6th overall, Packers, 1981)
Tom Cousineau, MLB, Ohio State (1st overall, Bills, 1979)
Mike Croel, LB, Nebraska (4th overall, Broncos, 1991)
Eric Curry, DE, Alabama (6th overall, Buccaneers, 1993)
Jim Druckenmiller, QB, Virginia Tech (26th overall, 49ers, 1997)
Clyde Duncan, WR, Tennessee (17th overall, Cardinals, 1984)
Steve Emtman, DT, Washington (1st overall, Colts, 1992)
Desmond Howard, WR, Michigan (4th overall, Redskins, 1992)
Mike Junkin, LB, Duke (5th overall, Browns, 1987)
Shawn Knight, DT, BYU (11th overall, Saints, 1987)
David Klingler, QB, Houston (6th overall, Bengals, 1992)
Eric Kumerow, OLB, Ohio State (16th overall, Dolphins, 1988)
Ryan Leaf, QB, Washington State (2nd overall, Chargers, 1998)
Tommy Maddox, QB, UCLA (25th overall, Broncos, 1992)
Todd Marinovich, QB, USC (24th overall, Raiders, 1991)
Keith McCants, DE, Alabama (4th overall, Buccaneers, 1990)
Dan McGwire, QB, San Diego State (16th overall, Seahawks, 1991)
Rick Mirer, QB, Notre Dame (2nd overall, Seahawks, 1993)
Bruce Pickens, DB, Nebraska (3rd overall, Falcons, 1991)
Jack Thompson, QB, Washington State (3rd overall, Bengals, 1979)
David Verser, WR, Kansas (10th overall, Bengals, 1981)
Dan Wilkinson, DT, Ohio State (1st overall, Bengals, 1994)

[GridironChamp]

Really? How about these guys?

Trev Alberts, OLB, Nebraska (6th overall, Colts, 1994)
Anthony Bell, LB, Michigan State (5th overall, Cardinals, 1986)
Todd Blackledge, QB, Penn State (7th overall, Chiefs, 1983)
Bob Buczkowski, DE, Pittsburgh (24th overall, Raiders, 1986)
Rich Campbell, QB, California (6th overall, Packers, 1981)
Tom Cousineau, MLB, Ohio State (1st overall, Bills, 1979)
Mike Croel, LB, Nebraska (4th overall, Broncos, 1991)
Eric Curry, DE, Alabama (6th overall, Buccaneers, 1993)
Jim Druckenmiller, QB, Virginia Tech (26th overall, 49ers, 1997)
Clyde Duncan, WR, Tennessee (17th overall, Cardinals, 1984)
Steve Emtman, DT, Washington (1st overall, Colts, 1992)
Desmond Howard, WR, Michigan (4th overall, Redskins, 1992)
Mike Junkin, LB, Duke (5th overall, Browns, 1987)
Shawn Knight, DT, BYU (11th overall, Saints, 1987)
David Klingler, QB, Houston (6th overall, Bengals, 1992)
Eric Kumerow, OLB, Ohio State (16th overall, Dolphins, 1988)
Ryan Leaf, QB, Washington State (2nd overall, Chargers, 1998)
Tommy Maddox, QB, UCLA (25th overall, Broncos, 1992)
Todd Marinovich, QB, USC (24th overall, Raiders, 1991)
Keith McCants, DE, Alabama (4th overall, Buccaneers, 1990)
Dan McGwire, QB, San Diego State (16th overall, Seahawks, 1991)
Rick Mirer, QB, Notre Dame (2nd overall, Seahawks, 1993)
Bruce Pickens, DB, Nebraska (3rd overall, Falcons, 1991)
Jack Thompson, QB, Washington State (3rd overall, Bengals, 1979)
David Verser, WR, Kansas (10th overall, Bengals, 1981)
Dan Wilkinson, DT, Ohio State (1st overall, Bengals, 1994)


How about these guys ROUND 4

1 95 Cleveland Browns Lewis Sanders CB Maryland
2 96 New Orleans Saints Terrelle Smith FB Arizona St.
3 97 Cincinnati Bengals Curtis Keaton HB James Madison
4 98 Green Bay Packers
(from San Francisco) Na'il Diggs OLB Ohio St.
5 99 Philadelphia Eagles Gari Scott WR Michigan St.
6 100 Atlanta Falcons Michael Thompson OT Tennessee St.
7 101 Denver Broncos Jerry Johnson DT Florida St.
8 102 Arizona Cardinals David Barrett CB Arkansas
9 103 Pittsburgh Steelers Danny Farmer WR UCLA
10 104 St. Louis Rams
(from Chicago) Kaulana Noa OG Hawaii
11 105 New York Giants Brandon Short ILB Penn St.
12 106 Minnesota Vikings
(from Baltimore) Antonio Wilson OLB TX A&M Commerce
13 107 Oakland Raiders Junior Ioane DT Arizona St.
14 108 San Francisco 49ers
(from Green Bay) John Keith S Furman
15 109 Dallas Cowboys Kareem Larrimore CB West Texas A&M
16 110 Cleveland Browns # Aaron Shea FB Michigan
17 111 San Diego Chargers
(from Philadelphia) Trevor Gaylor WR Miami (OH)
18 112 Denver Broncos
(from Carolina) Cooper Carlisle OG Florida
19 113 San Diego Chargers Leonardo Carson DE Auburn
20 114 Green Bay Packers Anthony Lucas WR Arkansas
21 115 Kansas City Chiefs Frank Moreau HB Louisville
22 116 Seattle Seahawks Marcus Bell OLB Arizona
23 117 Miami Dolphins Deon Dyer FB North Carolina
24 118 Minnesota Vikings Tyrone Carter S Minnesota
25 119 Seattle Seahawks
(from San Francisco) Isaiah Kacyvenski ILB Harvard
26 120 Carolina Panthers
(from Tampa Bay) Alvin McKinley DT Mississippi St.
27 121 Buffalo Bills Avion Black WR Tennessee St.
28 122 Indianapolis Colts Josh Williams DT Michigan
29 123 Jacksonville Jaguars Joey Chustz OT Louisiana Tech
30 124 Tennessee Titans Bobby Myers S Wisconsin
31 125 Chicago Bears
(from St. Louis) Reggie Austin CB Wake Forest
32 126 Green Bay Packers * Gary Berry S Ohio St.
33 127 New England Patriots * Greg Robinson-Randall OT Michigan St.
34 128 Tennessee Titans * Peter Sirmon ILB Oregon
35 129 Washington Redskins * Michael Moore OG Troy St.

ONE GOOD PLAYER IN THE WHOLE 4th ROUND, Na'ill Diggs


round 1 of the same draft...1 1 Cleveland Browns Courtney Brown DE Penn St. OK
2 2 Washington Redskins
(from New Orleans) LaVar Arrington OLB Penn St. GREAT
3 3 Washington Redskins
(from San Francisco) Chris Samuels OT Alabama GOOD
4 4 Cincinnati Bengals Peter Warrick WR Florida St. OK
5 5 Baltimore Ravens
(from Atlanta) Jamal Lewis HB Tennessee GOOD
6 6 Philadelphia Eagles Corey Simon DT Florida St. GOOD
7 7 Arizona Cardinals Thomas Jones HB Virginia GOOD
8 8 Pittsburgh Steelers Plaxico Burress WR Michigan St. GOOD
9 9 Chicago Bears Brian Urlacher OLB New Mexico GREAT
10 10 Baltimore Ravens
(from Denver) Travis Taylor WR Florida GOOD
11 11 New York Giants Ron Dayne HB Wisconsin OK
12 12 New York Jets
(from San Francisco) Shaun Ellis DE Tennessee OK
13 13 New York Jets
(from Tampa Bay) John Abraham OLB South Carolina GREAT
14 14 Green Bay Packers Daniel Franks TE Miami (FL)
15 15 Denver Broncos
(from Baltimore) Deltha O'Neal CB California GOOD
16 16 San Francisco 49ers
(from New York Jets) Julian Peterson OLB Michigan St. GREAT
17 17 Oakland Raiders Sebastian Janikowski PK Florida St. GOOD
18 18 New York Jets Chad Pennington QB Marshall OK
19 19 Seattle Seahawks GREAT
(from Dallas) Shaun Alexander HB Alabama
20 20 Detroit Lions Stockar McDougle OT Oklahoma
21 21 Kansas City Chiefs Sylvester Morris WR Jackson St.
22 22 Seattle Seahawks Chris McIntosh OT Wisconsin
23 23 Carolina Panthers
(from Miami) Rashard Anderson CB Jackson St.
24 24 San Francisco 49ers
(from Washington) Ahmed Plummer CB Ohio St. GOOD
25 25 Minnesota Vikings Chris Hovan DT Boston College GOOD
26 26 Buffalo Bills Erik Flowers DE Arizona St.
27 27 New York Jets
(from Tampa Bay) Anthony Becht TE West Virginia GOOD
28 28 Indianapolis Colts Rob Morris ILB Brigham Young
29 29 Jacksonville Jaguars R. Jay Soward WR USC
30 30 Tennessee Titans Keith Bulluck OLB Syracuse GOOD
31 31 St. Louis Rams Trung Canidate HB Arizona

[MTRaiderHater]

Seriously, there are a lot more good players chosen in the last six rounds and undrafted than the 1st simply because of the number of players there. There are also a lot more "busts" taken in the first round than all the others combined because the expectations are so high for those players. Rounds 2-6 are the heart and soul for every team in the league. Look at your own team's current roster & the places the 45 gamers were taken.

[GridironChamp]

Seriously, there are a lot more good players chosen in the last six rounds and undrafted than the 1st simply because of the number of players there. There are also a lot more "busts" taken in the first round than all the others combined because the expectations are so high for those players. Rounds 2-6 are the heart and soul for every team in the league. Look at your own team's current roster & the places the 45 gamers were taken.

The best two players on our team....LJ and TG both first rounders

Best two players on your team Champ and Probably Wilson both first rounders

Im not saying good players dont come out of the 4th round im just saying more good players come out of the first round than any other round. And thats the way it should be, if you spend a high draft pick you should be getting better players

[Archimedes Owl]

Seriously, there are a lot more good players chosen in the last six rounds and undrafted than the 1st simply because of the number of players there. There are also a lot more "busts" taken in the first round than all the others combined because the expectations are so high for those players. Rounds 2-6 are the heart and soul for every team in the league. Look at your own team's current roster & the places the 45 gamers were taken.
Really, his point still stands. A given player drafted in the first round is much more likely to succeed in this league than a player drafted in the fourth.

Likely from this draft, a good portion of the first rounders will likely start and will remain in the league for years to come. Chances are that only a couple of fourth rounders will be starters in this league.

[GridironChamp]

Really, his point still stands. A given player drafted in the first round is much more likely to succeed in this league than a player drafted in the fourth.

Likely from this draft, a good portion of the first rounders will likely start and will remain in the league for years to come. Chances are that only a couple of fourth rounders will be starters in this league.

Yep, but that doesnt mean those couple of fourth rounders wont be good, just history wise they have less of a chance to

[rcsodak]

What are you talking about? Duke sucked in NFLE...

If you cant cut it there how could you do good in the NFL? :confused:
Dude you sound extremely stupid now, you did good with the injury part, that has seemed to be a bigger impact than it was in the firs couple articles...
BUT that doesnt change the fact that he cant play like some peopl hoped. He was a project that never got finished, because of A- an injury and B more importantly a bad, very bad performence...9 catches 1 TD 89 yards for the next Gates in NFLE...That sounds like stats of a player that needs to be cut, o wait he already was :coffee:
I and the rest of the crew can now see why you know nothing about the NFLE....


...it's purpose isn't entirely to make starts.

It's also considered by many to be an instructional league, where rooks get a chance to get live playing time....and to work on areas that their NFL HC's want them to improve on.
Duke's was simply put, to get familiar with the game, learn the ins/outs of the position, and build some confidence.

He was NOT sent their to win any MVP award by catching 13 TD's......

Case in point: Lepsis was signed as a TE. He was sent to NFLE to learn the Tackle position.

And keep your calling people "stupid" to chef boards.....where they make more sense.

[rcsodak]

See now that you lost for about the third time in this thread your just gonna attack me and not the situation.

A true HOMER that cant talk smack :salute: <-- My Props to you for sticking to your style
You've been owned so much in this thread alone, you should have your very own license plate......


...and since you can't seem to read, this is NOT the smack forum. :duh:

[GridironChamp]

I and the rest of the crew can now see why you know nothing about the NFLE....


...it's purpose isn't entirely to make starts.

It's also considered by many to be an instructional league, where rooks get a chance to get live playing time....and to work on areas that their NFL HC's want them to improve on.
Duke's was simply put, to get familiar with the game, learn the ins/outs of the position, and build some confidence.

He was NOT sent their to win any MVP award by catching 13 TD's......

Case in point: Lepsis was signed as a TE. He was sent to NFLE to learn the Tackle position.

And keep your calling people "stupid" to chef boards.....where they make more sense.
Hey look another HOMER, skipping everyone elses smack and coming straight to me for responding to it....I admire your ummmm whatever you wanna call it :rolleyes:

9 catchs 89 yds and 1 TD, thats not getting familar with anything but SUCKING....

[kmartin575]

You've been owned so much in this thread alone, you should have your very own license plate......


...and since you can't seem to read, this is NOT the smack forum. :duh:

He's not the only one doing some smack talking. Some of your fellow Broncos fans have done the exact same thing.

[TD Machine]

Well according to just about every anylisis Hali is better....every anylist had him going higher than Dumbervile so obvisiouly most people believe he will be better :duh:
Believe what you want Grid. I simply said according to a few items of proof, I have my own beliefs as well. The expectation level is so disparaging that you comparing them is a stretch. Just saying we got a far better player for the pick than you did. His awards speak for themselves.

[GridironChamp]

Believe what you want Grid. I simply said according to a few items of proof, I have my own beliefs as well. The expectation level is so disparaging that you comparing them is a stretch. Just saying we got a far better player for the pick than you did. His awards speak for themselves.

Well if Hali turns out to a star DE like a first rounder does over 50% of the time, then i would like that much better than just a Pass rushing DE used on passing downs.

[Jewels]

Speaking as a Cards fan....

He's awesome. There's no denying it.
I'm so glad somebody started this thread.

Go Cards...Go Broncos

[rcsodak]

He's not the only one doing some smack talking. Some of your fellow Broncos fans have done the exact same thing.
Regardless, HE is the one that is constantly being warned by mods concerning smack in non-smack forums.
Plus, HE's the only one Using the word "smack" in his posts....

...and I noticed you didn't disagree with my post.....good for you. ;)

[rcsodak]

Hey look another HOMER, skipping everyone elses smack and coming straight to me for responding to it....I admire your ummmm whatever you wanna call it :rolleyes:

9 catchs 89 yds and 1 TD, thats not getting familar with anything but SUCKING....
Way to not address the main gist of the post.....



:speech:

[GridironChamp]

Regardless, HE is the one that is constantly being warned by mods concerning smack in non-smack forums.
Plus, HE's the only one Using the word "smack" in his posts....

...and I noticed you didn't disagree with my post.....good for you. ;)


Umm no, the Mods are warning everyone smacking, usually involved but i dont start talking smack in non smack forums....if someone wants to start it i might follow :duh:

I may say somethings that ppl disagree with but how is my opinion smack? :confused:

[GridironChamp]

Way to not address the main gist of the post.....



:speech:

I guess you didnt read the last line :duh:

[HolyDiver]

Umm no, the Mods are warning everyone smacking, usually involved but i dont start talking smack in non smack forums....if someone wants to start it i might follow :duh:

I may say somethings that ppl disagree with but how is my opinion smack? :confused:

LOL !!!!!!!!!!!! Man, if I had said that in the Chiefshuddle, not only would I have been banned, but they probably would come to my house and kick my dog too.

[GridironChamp]

LOL !!!!!!!!!!!! Man, if I had said that in the Chiefshuddle, not only would I have been banned, but they probably would come to my house and kick my dog too.

But notice how i said it without talking smack, this would be more like your posts...



THOSE stupid mods only pick on me because im a rival fan. Those other dumb posters were smacking too but they jsut choose to pick on me...how stupid. Man i hate this board....ect.... :coffee:


keep it nice and tolerable and ppl dont have a problem, a hint for the furture

[HolyDiver]

But notice how i said it without talking smack, this would be more like your posts...



THOSE stupid mods only pick on me because im a rival fan. Those other dumb posters were smacking too but they jsut choose to pick on me...how stupid. Man i hate this board....ect.... :coffee:


keep it nice and tolerable and ppl dont have a problem, a hint for the furture
LMAO.................You are seriously keeping me entertained today.

[GridironChamp]

LMAO.................You are seriously keeping me entertained today.

glad to see you actually like good opnions and posts...

Im expecting another LMAO type response to this :coffee:

[HolyDiver]

glad to see you actually like good opnions and posts...

Im expecting another LMAO type response to this :coffee:

True, I do like good opinions and posts..........................BuT I like yours too though. ................... Keep trying, you're actually making some nice improvements. :coffee:

[GridironChamp]

True, I do like good opinions and posts..........................BuT I like yours too though. ................... Keep trying, you're actually making some nice improvements. :coffee:
I know i am....now you need to work on making more than 1 good post in your life on here :coffee:

[HolyDiver]

I know i am....now you need to work on making more than 1 good post in your life on here :coffee:

Yeah, well, I'm kinda new to talk forums. As you can see, I only have 600 posts or so.......................Hopfully someday, I'll have several thousand. ................But until then, I'm just a rookie at this stuff.

[GridironChamp]

Yeah, well, I'm kinda new to talk forums. As you can see, I only have 600 posts or so.......................Hopfully someday, I'll have several thousand. ................But until then, I'm just a rookie at this stuff.

Yeah, 1 good post out of 600 isnt too shabby at all :rolleyes:

[HolyDiver]

Yeah, 1 good post out of 600 isnt too shabby at all :rolleyes:


I hope someday I can achieve over 4,000 like you. Then maybe, I'll know what I'm talking about too.

[GridironChamp]

I hope someday I can achieve over 4,000 like you. Then maybe, I'll know what I'm talking about too.

PC has nothing to do with it, you brought it in now i will take it out... :coffee:


Maybe if you researched, read, and watched you would know what your talking about...what a concept :goofy:

[Nick]

I hope someday I can achieve over 4,000 like you. Then maybe, I'll know what I'm talking about too.

You can make that two good posts :heh:

[arapaho]

Yeah, 1 good post out of 600 isnt too shabby at all :rolleyes:



yeah really ripped your average of one in a ........................well were still waiting for that first :coffee:

[Colorado69]

how a couple of Chef fans can come on the post and spout misinformation and unfounded opinions and then congratulate eachother. It might not be so funny if they had any real knowledge of the Broncos. All they do is start, or try to contribute to posts that they think they know about. At least it is easy to put them in their place. When their team has gone decades (yes, that is multiple) since going to a Super Bowl or AFC Championship game, I guess you have to search for a new identity. It is fun to read some of their posts that spout homerism and then read that Bronco fans are homers. Really???? Don't you guys get it???? If you want support for your downtrodden Chefs, try Chokeland. At least they are in the same boat as losers. I would hope that all the Bronco fans posting here are homers. It is called supporting your favorite team. How can you act like you are so insulted when so many posters do not agree with you? Your opinions are flawed and dull. I guess that comes with being a flatlander. Remember, Denver flushes twice to ensure that KC has water.

[kmartin575]

how a couple of Chef fans can come on the post and spout misinformation and unfounded opinions and then congratulate eachother. It might not be so funny if they had any real knowledge of the Broncos. All they do is start, or try to contribute to posts that they think they know about. At least it is easy to put them in their place. When their team has gone decades (yes, that is multiple) since going to a Super Bowl or AFC Championship game, I guess you have to search for a new identity. It is fun to read some of their posts that spout homerism and then read that Bronco fans are homers. Really???? Don't you guys get it???? If you want support for your downtrodden Chefs, try Chokeland. At least they are in the same boat as losers. I would hope that all the Bronco fans posting here are homers. It is called supporting your favorite team. How can you act like you are so insulted when so many posters do not agree with you? Your opinions are flawed and dull. I guess that comes with being a flatlander. Remember, Denver flushes twice to ensure that KC has water.

Nice one smartguy. Get a life.

[Colorado69]

I have a life. I have a great organization and team to root for. I am a homer and proud of that fact!!! I would just love to see Dumervil rip the NFL apart, become another Karl Mecklenburg (sp), and keep his great laugh. He had alot of fun at the Fan Fair.

[Colorado69]

My son lived in KC for several years and I visited him several times. KC and the surrounding area was nice and the fans weren't too bad when we went to the pub to watch games. If they can rebuild their defense before their offense starts retiring, they will become a formidable team. As long as they beat the Faiders twice a year, I won't rag them too much.

[GridironChamp]

how a couple of Chef fans can come on the post and spout misinformation and unfounded opinions and then congratulate eachother. It might not be so funny if they had any real knowledge of the Broncos. All they do is start, or try to contribute to posts that they think they know about. At least it is easy to put them in their place. When their team has gone decades (yes, that is multiple) since going to a Super Bowl or AFC Championship game, I guess you have to search for a new identity. It is fun to read some of their posts that spout homerism and then read that Bronco fans are homers. Really???? Don't you guys get it???? If you want support for your downtrodden Chefs, try Chokeland. At least they are in the same boat as losers. I would hope that all the Bronco fans posting here are homers. It is called supporting your favorite team. How can you act like you are so insulted when so many posters do not agree with you? Your opinions are flawed and dull. I guess that comes with being a flatlander. Remember, Denver flushes twice to ensure that KC has water.


This is a great post, this just proves who starts the smack and who doesnt know what they are talking about.... :duh:


And Ap, what is your problem with me....ever since i guess i pissed you off by not laying down and ageeing with in one thread you have been the new prick of the boards....If you got a problem just say so quit just posting this random stupid crap

[kmartin575]

I have a life. I have a great organization and team to root for. I am a homer and proud of that fact!!! I would just love to see Dumervil rip the NFL apart, become another Karl Mecklenburg (sp), and keep his great laugh. He had alot of fun at the Fan Fair.

Hey, I never had a problem with Broncos fans being "homers" on here. I realize every team has them, although I think Chiefs fans are a little bit more realistic. Maybe it is from years of dissapointment but unlike some Chargers, Raiders, and sometimes Broncos fans, Chiefs fans are a little bit more down to earth with there predictions. I'm going to call people out when I see some of the following things:

*Raiders fans calling Michael Huff the next Ed Reed
*Chargers fans saying Quentin Jammer is going to be a top 5 cornerback this year
*Broncos fans saying Dumervil is the next Dwight Freeney

I understand all fans are optimistic but some people are a little bit TOO optimistic.

[arapaho]

This is a great post, this just proves who starts the smack and who doesnt know what they are talking about.... :duh:


And Ap, what is your problem with me....ever since i guess i pissed you off by not laying down and ageeing with in one thread you have been the new prick of the boards....If you got a problem just say so quit just posting this random stupid crap and being a jerk....have a pair

first off ...when did you piss me off...and i believe your threatening the coc with your post so have a little class.....do you mean back in the other thread where you got shut down and exposed? no didnt anger me ...humor would be a better word
and how can i be the new prick on board..........been here a while

but since you asked........im only responding to your little tat about him only having one good post in 600....where i have seen a few good posts from him, comeing off like your some great poster who we should be awed with.......and as for stupid random crap? look little man i post whenever and where ever i feel the need.......got it?

now proceed with sinking your own boat again, while i watch

[rcsodak]

Remember, Denver flushes twice to ensure that KC has water.

HaHaHaHaHa.....


...poor chefs.....



...Drink up, boys.... :coffee:

[Jared]

Are we talking about Dumervil or are we just going to make personal attacks in here?

[T8KNOVR]

Are we talking about Dumervil or are we just going to make personal attacks in here?

Dumervil will be a BEAST!

By Chris Duncan, The Associated Press

Dumervil grew up in a packed house with seven half- or full brothers, all groomed to be football players by a disciplinarian father, Frank Gachelin, a former Marine.

The clan also included Elvis' older brother, former Syracuse linebacker James Dumervil; former Syracuse defensive lineman Louis Gachelin and former Louisville safety Curry Burns.

"Everything was a competition," Dumervil said. "Monopoly, everything. I really never had friends because I had so many brothers. It was a great deal at home. I never had to leave."

Dumervil picked up football in first grade, playing in the street with his brothers and others from dawn to dusk on weekends.

Back then, Dumervil's specialty was catching passes, not pressuring quarterbacks.

"I was the best receiver around the neighborhood," he said.

But he got too big to play wideout and by high school, he was playing linebacker and modeling his game after NFL star Derrick Thomas, another Miami native, who recorded 126.5 sacks in his 11-year pro career.

Thomas died of injuries suffered in a car accident in 2000 and was elected to the Hall of Fame a year later.

Dumervil wears the former Kansas City Chief's No. 58.

"He was the perfect defensive player," Dumervil said. "He played with great energy and attitude."

Now, Petrino is seeing those characteristics in Elvis. He said Dumervil provided the emotional spark when the Cardinals rallied from an early 10-0 deficit against the Beavers.

"He did an excellent job and brought so much energy to our sideline," Petrino said.

"Besides what he did on the field, he really did a good job of leading us on and off the field."

[HolyDiver]

He could end up starting like Darrent Williams did last season after week 2 or so. i would say closer to week 8, but he has very little competion with Lang, Ekuban and a few others. Brown is not going anywhere, but Dumervil could be on the otherside.

[GridironChamp]

first off ...when did you piss me off...and i believe your threatening the coc with your post so have a little class.....do you mean back in the other thread where you got shut down and exposed? no didnt anger me ...humor would be a better word
and how can i be the new prick on board..........been here a while

but since you asked........im only responding to your little tat about him only having one good post in 600....where i have seen a few good posts from him, comeing off like your some great poster who we should be awed with.......and as for stupid random crap? look little man i post whenever and where ever i feel the need.......got it?

now proceed with sinking your own boat again, while i watch
Yeah ap, keeping there on a petistool above anyone else just cause you like a football team that did better.
And dont worry AP, you keep in touch with Holy seeming your the only other poster that says he makes good posts...maybe if you would read the thread and see that i said that in return to what he said, but you prolly skipped that cause im not a Denver fan.......O well that way i dont have anything in commen with someone like you



Kmart i agree, only i dont see Charger fans say that nor do i see Raider fans say that, i just see Denver fans say how Great a player is before a season starts...

[HolyDiver]

Yeah ap, keeping there on a petistool above anyone else just cause you like a football team that did better.
And dont worry AP, you keep in touch with Holy seeming your the only other poster that says he makes good posts...maybe if you would read the thread and see that i said that in return to what he said, but you prolly skipped that cause im not a Denver fan.......O well that way i dont have anything in commen with someone like you



Kmart i agree, only i dont see Charger fans say that nor do i see Raider fans say that, i just see Denver fans say how Great a player is before a season starts...

Hey, um, not to change the subject, but when does school start back up?

[GridironChamp]

Hey, um, not to change the subject, but when does school start back up?

What are you talking about :confused:

Why so when i go to school i cant make you look like a fool throughout the day

[HolyDiver]

I have a life. I have a great organization and team to root for. I am a homer and proud of that fact!!! I would just love to see Dumervil rip the NFL apart, become another Karl Mecklenburg (sp), and keep his great laugh. He had alot of fun at the Fan Fair.

I have a really strong feeling he could. He is exactly what we needed. All this talk about him being small I think is his advantage. Look for him to have 8-10 sacks this season.

[kmartin575]

I have a really strong feeling he could. He is exactly what we needed. All this talk about him being small I think is his advantage. Look for him to have 8-10 sacks this season.

If he plays like he did at the Senior Bowl that won't happen. He was a complete non-factor at the senior bowl and got shutdown.

[T8KNOVR]

If he plays like he did at the Senior Bowl that won't happen. He was a complete non-factor at the senior bowl and got shutdown.

He was going up against D'brickashaw, the production or lack thereof is understandable.

[kmartin575]

He was going up against D'brickashaw, the production or lack thereof is understandable.

Then I guess he will suck going up against KC with our offensive line.

[kmartin575]

Here are some quotes from the daily practice reports at the Senior Bowl (from www.nfldraftcountdown.com):


At defensive end Louisville's Elvis Dumervil just looks out of place physically but didn't do too bad in drills, although he is a liability against the run.


Elvis Dumervil of Louisville and Darryl Tapp of Virginia Tech struggled due to a lack of size and might drop a bit.


Stock Down
9. Elvis Dumervil, DE, Louisville
Measured in at only 5-11 and did not stand out in the practices.

[GridironChamp]

He was going up against D'brickashaw, the production or lack thereof is understandable.

Number 1- He will playing Ferguson's in the NFL, he wont be playing bad OTs he will be playing other good players. If he can do it against bad OTs but not good OTs thats hardly worth this whole thread.

#2- Freeny still can beat the best OT in the NFL but Dumervile obvisiouly couldnt do it in NCAA ;)

So i would hope that everytime he plays good OT's he doesnt suck if this thread is what it says

[T8KNOVR]

Number 1- He will playing Ferguson's in the NFL, he wont be playing bad OTs he will be playing other good players. If he can do it against bad OTs but not good OTs thats hardly worth this whole thread.

#2- Freeny still can beat the best OT in the NFL but Dumervile obvisiouly couldnt do it in NCAA

So i would hope that everytime he plays good OT's he doesnt suck if this thread is what it says

#1- This was one week in time, he wouldn't be the first kid to have a bad week of practice leading up to a Bowl Game. Don't forget that during his first three years at Louisville, Dumervil combined for 86 tackles, 19.5 for loss, 12 sacks, and one forced fumble. In 2005 he had 63 tackles, 23 for loss, 20 sacks, and an NCAA record 11 forced fumbles. Dumervil won the Big East Defensive Player of the Year Award, Hendricks Award(Best DE), Nagurski(Best defensive player in the nation). All that and there is no doubt he will get better. These are some quotes that speak to Dumervil's continued progression in 2005.

"He has made great improvement in generating the hip flexibility to make plays in pursuit and has also improved his redirection skills to be more effective working in space."

"His improved hand usage allows him to get through trash much better than he did in the past (kept his arms too short, letting blockers engulf him)."

"Dumervil's improved ability to use his hands in order to control offensive tackles lets him apply constant pressure on the quarterback. He hits with a thud, resulting in a high amount of forced fumbles (see 2005 Kentucky and Oregon State games)"

It looks like he has consistently gotten better so I doubt the evolution process stops at Invesco.

#2- 2003-2006 Pro Bowl DE Dwight Freeney has sacked Drew Bree's and Jake Plummer a total of 3 times. So Grid can " Freeny still can beat the best OT in the NFL"? By your analogy that would not be the case. However, a bad day shouldn't negate a career. Read #1 agin. He also had 78 sacks in high school.

[GridironChamp]

#1- This was one week in time, he wouldn't be the first kid to have a bad week of practice leading up to a Bowl Game. Don't forget that during his first three years at Louisville, Dumervil combined for 86 tackles, 19.5 for loss, 12 sacks, and one forced fumble. In 2005 he had 63 tackles, 23 for loss, 20 sacks, and an NCAA record 11 forced fumbles. Dumervil won the Big East Defensive Player of the Year Award, Hendricks Award(Best DE), Nagurski(Best defensive player in the nation). All that and there is no doubt he will get better. These are some quotes that speak to Dumervil's continued progression in 2005.

"He has made great improvement in generating the hip flexibility to make plays in pursuit and has also improved his redirection skills to be more effective working in space."

"His improved hand usage allows him to get through trash much better than he did in the past (kept his arms too short, letting blockers engulf him)."

"Dumervil's improved ability to use his hands in order to control offensive tackles lets him apply constant pressure on the quarterback. He hits with a thud, resulting in a high amount of forced fumbles (see 2005 Kentucky and Oregon State games)"

It looks like he has consistently gotten better so I doubt the evolution process stops at Invesco.

#2- 2003-2006 Pro Bowl DE Dwight Freeney has sacked Drew Bree's and Jake Plummer a total of 3 times. So Grid can " Freeny still can beat the best OT in the NFL"? By your analogy that would not be the case. However, a bad day shouldn't negate a career. Read #1 agin. He also had 78 sacks in high school.

I didnt say that made him bad...but your excuse for him doing bad was because he was playing a good OT. If thats the case then he wont be any good. BTW 78 sacks in highschool means nothing, i know a kid that scored 12 goals in soccer in high school, my friend scored 45 points in basketball, and i know a kid that won every race he ran in track. Im not spouting off calling them the Next best ________ (blank) because high means nothing and college is just a small show for the NFL (football wise). Read Kmarts quotes, those mean nothing.

What matters is how he will produce and Dumervile wont ever be in the game long enough to produce numbers = to a great or a good DE. Yes he migh have 7 sacks in a season but like 10 tackles. Thats not good at all.

[DrewB]

BTW 78 sacks in highschool means nothing

That is unreal,how can you say it means nothing?

Will it translate to the Pos?who knows. But to say its nothing shows what you really know.


Gonna go out on a limb here and say thats 78 more sacks then you ever had :D

[T8KNOVR]

my friend scored 45 points in basketball

Again, one game does not examine a player the way a season or career does.

Dumervil has been great at every level so far. If he gives the Bronco's 7 sacks like you said he will be almost 50% more production then Trevor Pryce in 2005. So I guess you would say the Trevor wasn't good when he had the 7+ sack years?

"What matters is how he will produce and Dumervile wont ever be in the game long enough to produce numbers = to a great or a good DE. Yes he might have 7 sacks in a season but like 10 tackles. That's not good at all."

The comment about the 10 tackles does not even warrant a written response, just read below.

Dumervil when starting
2005 - 65 tackles
2004 - 52 tackles

[GridironChamp]

That is unreal,how can you say it means nothing?

Will it translate to the Pos?who knows. But to say its nothing shows what you really know.


Gonna go out on a limb here and say thats 78 more sacks then you ever had :D
#1 im still in highschool :duh: and number two have you ever seen highschool football? It is nothing no competition to players that end up in the pros.... Yes its good numbers but it means diddly doo...

[GridironChamp]

Again, one game does not examine a player the way a season or career does. Niether does Highschool thats the point ;)


Dumervil has been great at every level so far. If he gives the Bronco's 7 sacks like you said he will be almost 50% more production then Trevor Pryce in 2005. So I guess you would say the Trevor wasn't good when he had the 7+ sack years? Different Pryce is an everydown DE Dumervile isnt... And no Pryce wasnt ever an elite DE :duh:


"What matters is how he will produce and Dumervile wont ever be in the game long enough to produce numbers = to a great or a good DE. Yes he might have 7 sacks in a season but like 10 tackles. That's not good at all."

The comment about the 10 tackles does not even warrant a written response, just read below.

Dumervil when starting
2005 - 65 tackles
2004 - 52 tackles
NFL and NCAA are different....especially when the RBs he is trying to tackle his just as big as him.

I guess i dont see how you KNOW that Dumbervile is a beast and there is no way he cant only be a pass rushing DE... But thats what homerism gets you

[HolyDiver]

Dumervil will more than likely either be starting by mid-season or will be on the field atleast half of the time alternating equally with Ekuban or Lang.

[GridironChamp]

Dumervil will more than likely either be starting by mid-season or will be on the field atleast half of the time alternating equally with Ekuban or Lang.

Exactly, he will be alternating in and out most of his career as long as there are half way decent DE's in front of him in my opinion. Now he could always be the next Feeney but i very highly doubt that he will nor can you call him that. :beer:

[Nick]

Exactly, he will be alternating in and out most of his career as long as there are half way decent DE's in front of him in my opinion. Now he could always be the next Feeney but i very highly doubt that he will nor can you call him that. :beer:

Well put, he is more of pass rush situation hard nickle for say. Him and Alston coming out are pretty impressive and well built.. do to size differences.... they could be great but is way to earlly to compair to other non proto type size different players.

Dumervil has shown that he will not give up in college and puts a lot of heart. Has good statistics but you can't really put anything on College statistics just how they played.

There is a lot of players that lack multiple things that make up it different areas.

Dumervil will be a Beast!!........... that depends if he is able to adapt to NFL level, able to use size difference into his favor, has good work ethic in NFL, and able to go against top tier offensive linemen.

I would say he struggled against Brickshaw... even though he is a BEAST! Does that mean he is less of a Beast now... well.. he needs improvement before he is considered Elvis "the beast" Dumervill

and im out :salute:

[GridironChamp]

Well put, he is more of pass rush situation hard nickle for say. Him and Alston coming out are pretty impressive and well built.. do to size differences.... they could be great but is way to earlly to compair to other non proto type size different players.

Dumervil has shown that he will not give up in college and puts a lot of heart. Has good statistics but you can't really put anything on College statistics just how they played.

There is a lot of players that lack multiple things that make up it different areas.

Dumervil will be a Beast!!........... that depends if he is able to adapt to NFL level, able to use size difference into his favor, has good work ethic in NFL, and able to go against top tier offensive linemen.

I would say he struggled against Brickshaw... even though he is a BEAST! Does that mean he is less of a Beast now... well.. he needs improvement before he is considered Elvis "the beast" Dumervill

and im out :salute:

Well put :beer:

[DrewB]

#1 im still in highschool :duh: and number two have you ever seen highschool football? It is nothing no competition to players that end up in the pros.... Yes its good numbers but it means diddly doo...

K let me rephrase...Thats 78 more sacks then you will ever get :salute:

And I don't care if it was 8 man football, 78 sacks is very impressive,If you can't see that being in Highschool I fear there is no way to explain it to you.

[GridironChamp]

K let me rephrase...Thats 78 more sacks then you will ever get :salute:

And I don't care if it was 8 man football, 78 sacks is very impressive,If you can't see that being in Highschool I fear there is no way to explain it to you.

Look here homer, watch old highschool tapes of TATER Bell and he looks like the next Barry Sanders. But in all reality he is nothing but a good change in pace back as of now in his career. You call 78 sacks 78 sacks i call that highschool football in some hick schoool district where he is the only person to graduate.

I really dont give a flying F if he had 100+ sacks in one game in highschool, it doesnt matter. It was highschool. Any NFL player looks like the absolute best player in the world because of the level he is playing against. :coffee:

[Colorado69]

Obviously, the number of sacks made by a high school player is very important if he is going to be offered a scholarship to continue playing at the next level. PeeWee, Middle School, High School, College....all are steps that must be completed successfully if a player is going to be considered for the NFL. Dumervil has excelled in all the steps, so far. Let him play and compete before he is made an All-Pro or thrown away as useless.

"What matters is how he will produce and Dumervile wont ever be in the game long enough to produce numbers = to a great or a good DE." Easy question....How do you know????? You are a fan of an opponent, so your biased opinion means diddly squat!!!! You can't read the future, even if you think so, and you are a Chef/ND homer. How unreliable can you get? Maybe the same as a Faider fan. Maybe!!!

[DrewB]

Look here homer, watch old highschool tapes of TATER Bell and he looks like the next Barry Sanders. But in all reality he is nothing but a good change in pace back as of now in his career. You call 78 sacks 78 sacks i call that highschool football in some hick schoool district where he is the only person to graduate.

I really dont give a flying F if he had 100+ sacks in one game in highschool, it doesnt matter. It was highschool. Any NFL player looks like the absolute best player in the world because of the level he is playing against. :coffee:


Not sure how I am being a homer...Just pointing out to you that 78 sacks is impressive.

Tatum's HS stats- 1225 yds and 19 td's his senior year is pretty ordinary.Not sure where you get the next Barry Sanders in those stats..Or were you just talking without knowing the facts again?

Elvis played for Jackson High School in Miami. They're a 4a school and I'm sure they graduated more then one person :confused:

Now i'm not the expert in Miami high school sports as you appear to be,but some pretty good players came out of the state of Florida.As a matter of fact they are one of the highest recruited states in the country.

You are right that it means nothing for the pro's,but to dismiss his accomplishments just cause you have an agenda really hurts your credibility

[Tour]

only time can tell . :coffee:

[Tour]

what i cannot believe, is that this is the #1 thread... in Draft and free agency... i mean, that doesnt even belong here. i think this thread should be in general discutions.

Dumervil a beast? :ugh: ... honestly.

It's not a bad thread... but about 200 replies about it? :confused:

Nobody wonders what happen with Lilie? or something.

whats next?... Jay Cutler let grown his mustache!!!!!!... and 300 posts about it.

i can imagine that already:

... "it is a fact that all the QB's throw with better accuaracy when they are well shaved"...

and someone will reply:

... " are you crazy!!!! Jay Plummer played better when he has a beard"...

and then:

... "you said it: a beard not a mustache ".

and then:

... "the thing with the mustache its than develop arm strength, by reducing accuaracy."

Well... to be honest with you i havent read all the 187 replies, but i think that other than what we saw on "broncos teevee", there's nothing left to say... Dumervil is a great DE. He got a great technique and hopefully he will play soon... in the NFL... for the broncos in the regular season.

[kmartin575]

what i cannot believe, is that this is the #1 thread... in Draft and free agency... i mean, that doesnt even belong here. i think this thread should be in general discutions.

Dumervil a beast? :ugh: ... honestly.

It's not a bad thread... but about 200 replies about it? :confused:

Nobody wonders what happen with Lilie? or something.

whats next?... Jay Cutler let grown his mustache!!!!!!... and 300 posts about it.

i can imagine that already:

... "it is a fact that all the QB's throw with better accuaracy when they are well shaved"...

and someone will reply:

... " are you crazy!!!! Jay Plummer played better when he has a beard"...

and then:

... "you said it: a beard not a mustache ".

Well... to be honest with you i havent read all the 187 replies, but i think that other than what we saw on "broncos teevee", there's nothing left to say... Dumervil is a great DE. He got a great technique and hopefully he will play soon... in the NFL... for the broncos in the regular season.

Elvis Dumervil was drafted by the Broncos this year, was he not? He has not been signed to a contract yet so he is still merely a draft pick. Therefore, this belongs in the DRAFT & Free Agency forum. :coffee:

[kmartin575]

Not sure how I am being a homer...Just pointing out to you that 78 sacks is impressive.

Tatum's HS stats- 1225 yds and 19 td's his senior year is pretty ordinary.Not sure where you get the next Barry Sanders in those stats..Or were you just talking without knowing the facts again?

Elvis played for Jackson High School in Miami. They're a 4a school and I'm sure they graduated more then one person :confused:

Now i'm not the expert in Miami high school sports as you appear to be,but some pretty good players came out of the state of Florida.As a matter of fact they are one of the highest recruited states in the country.

You are right that it means nothing for the pro's,but to dismiss his accomplishments just cause you have an agenda really hurts your credibility

A guy at the high school I went to rushed for over 2,000 yards. He must be a great runningback prospect, huh? NOT. He's too small. High School performances mean nothing.

[MTRaiderHater]

what i cannot believe, is that this is the #1 thread... in Draft and free agency... i mean, that doesnt even belong here. i think this thread should be in general discutions.

Dumervil a beast? :ugh: ... honestly.

It's not a bad thread... but about 200 replies about it? :confused:

Nobody wonders what happen with Lilie? or something.

whats next?... Jay Cutler let grown his mustache!!!!!!... and 300 posts about it.

i can imagine that already:

... "it is a fact that all the QB's throw with better accuaracy when they are well shaved"...

and someone will reply:

... " are you crazy!!!! Jay Plummer played better when he has a beard"...

and then:

... "you said it: a beard not a mustache ".

Well... to be honest with you i havent read all the 187 replies, but i think that other than what we saw on "broncos teevee", there's nothing left to say... Dumervil is a great DE. He got a great technique and hopefully he will play soon... in the NFL... for the broncos in the regular season.


Don't bother with reading through them all. You're better off with sorting old cans of paint in the garage.... or cutting toenails.... anything would be more worth while.

Most of the posts are GridironChamp saying "and see that i said that in return to what he said," or "I didn't say that," right after someone quotes what he said. Pointless posts, and people should stop encouraging him by replying.

[GridironChamp]

Obviously, the number of sacks made by a high school player is very important if he is going to be offered a scholarship to continue playing at the next level. PeeWee, Middle School, High School, College....all are steps that must be completed successfully if a player is going to be considered for the NFL. Dumervil has excelled in all the steps, so far. Let him play and compete before he is made an All-Pro or thrown away as useless.

"What matters is how he will produce and Dumervile wont ever be in the game long enough to produce numbers = to a great or a good DE." Easy question....How do you know????? You are a fan of an opponent, so your biased opinion means diddly squat!!!! You can't read the future, even if you think so, and you are a Chef/ND homer. How unreliable can you get? Maybe the same as a Faider fan. Maybe!!!

Kepp calling me a homer, it just makes you look stupid.... :coffee:

This opinion about Dumbervile isnt biased, because of his size he wont be an everydown back. Tell me how that is biased and actually make a good point and i'll shut up.

Until then you shut up and quit posting this ridiculasly bad crap :salute:

[GridironChamp]

Not sure how I am being a homer...Just pointing out to you that 78 sacks is impressive.

Tatum's HS stats- 1225 yds and 19 td's his senior year is pretty ordinary.Not sure where you get the next Barry Sanders in those stats..Or were you just talking without knowing the facts again?

Elvis played for Jackson High School in Miami. They're a 4a school and I'm sure they graduated more then one person

Now i'm not the expert in Miami high school sports as you appear to be,but some pretty good players came out of the state of Florida.As a matter of fact they are one of the highest recruited states in the country.

You are right that it means nothing for the pro's,but to dismiss his accomplishments just cause you have an agenda really hurts your credibility

My credibility :laugh:

Your basing your opinion on Dumbervile because of highschool stats. So if thats the case i guess you are all ready drooling over my friend. As a freshmen in highschool on the football team he had 22 TD's and 975 rushing yds as a FB. I guess that means he will be a beast in the NFL :rolleyes:
O yeah, HE ISNT EVEN A STARTER, highschool stats mean nothing i dont care if you came from Miami, Hawaii, Cali. or New York, name another player on Dumbervile's high school football team that is the NFL right now.

There you go no competition = domination by an NFL caliber player :duh:

[GridironChamp]

what i cannot believe, is that this is the #1 thread... in Draft and free agency... i mean, that doesnt even belong here. i think this thread should be in general discutions.

Dumervil a beast? :ugh: ... honestly.

It's not a bad thread... but about 200 replies about it? :confused:

Nobody wonders what happen with Lilie? or something.

whats next?... Jay Cutler let grown his mustache!!!!!!... and 300 posts about it.

i can imagine that already:

... "it is a fact that all the QB's throw with better accuaracy when they are well shaved"...

and someone will reply:

... " are you crazy!!!! Jay Plummer played better when he has a beard"...

and then:

... "you said it: a beard not a mustache ".

and then:

... "the thing with the mustache its than develop arm strength, by reducing accuaracy."

Well... to be honest with you i havent read all the 187 replies, but i think that other than what we saw on "broncos teevee", there's nothing left to say... Dumervil is a great DE. He got a great technique and hopefully he will play soon... in the NFL... for the broncos in the regular season.

And this is why it keeps going on :coffee:


People like you that cant that cant see he might not be great. I never said he would suck, i just said he wont be a BEAST. And that seems to upset some Bronco fans, IDK why they cant see he might not be great, and the possibility of him not being great are a lot higher than him being great.

[HolyDiver]

My credibility :laugh:

Your basing your opinion on Dumbervile because of highschool stats. So if thats the case i guess you are all ready drooling over my friend. As a freshmen in highschool on the football team he had 22 TD's and 975 rushing yds as a FB. I guess that means he will be a beast in the NFL :rolleyes:
O yeah, HE ISNT EVEN A STARTER, highschool stats mean nothing i dont care if you came from Miami, Hawaii, Cali. or New York, name another player on Dumbervile's high school football team that is the NFL right now.

There you go no competition = domination by an NFL caliber player :duh:

If your friend is a Fullback then I guess he won't be playinmg TE anytime soon. As far as Dumervil goes, he had 20 sacks last season. He obvioulsy knows how to get to the QB. He's quick and strong, compact, really the perfect size of a DE the BRONCOS have been looking for. Not the Chiefs, not the Raiders, the BRONCOS. He will fit in well....................oh, in my opinion I should say. ( should go without saying, but I won't take any chances with you).

[GridironChamp]

If your friend is a Fullback then I guess he won't be playinmg TE anytime soon. As far as Dumervil goes, he had 20 sacks last season. He obvioulsy knows how to get to the QB.
17 of those sacks i think in the first half of the season, the second half he had about 3. that sounds great to me. No doubt he can get to a QB in college but this isnt college bud, its the NFL :duh:


He's quick and strong, compact, really the perfect size of a DE the BRONCOS have been looking for. once again you show your lack of knowledge, Dumbervile is a small DE, and your the only one that denys it....


Not the Chiefs, not the Raiders, the BRONCOS. He will fit in well....................oh, in my opinion I should say. ( should go without saying, but I won't take any chances with you).

your opinon is your opinion, i wont dog anyone for thier opinion, im just telling you whats wrong with it

[HolyDiver]

[QUOTE=GridironChamp] :duh:
once again you show your lack of knowledge


See what I mean.

[GridironChamp]

[QUOTE=GridironChamp] :duh:
once again you show your lack of knowledge


See what I mean.
You say 5'11" is perfect DE size?

top 5 DE's last year

1- Burgess 6'2" 260lbs
2- Umenyiora 6'3 280lbs
3- Simeon Rice 6'5" 265lbs
4- Kyle Vanden Bosch 6'4" 278lbs
5- Aaron Schobel 6'4" 278lbs

and Dumbervile- 5'11" 258 lbs perfect size huh :confused:

[Nick]

If your friend is a Fullback then I guess he won't be playinmg TE anytime soon. As far as Dumervil goes, he had 20 sacks last season. He obvioulsy knows how to get to the QB. He's quick and strong, compact, really the perfect size of a DE the BRONCOS have been looking for. Not the Chiefs, not the Raiders, the BRONCOS. He will fit in well....................oh, in my opinion I should say. ( should go without saying, but I won't take any chances with you).

Yellow - Whos talking about other teams :confused: my quesiton is Why wont he fit on those teams?

Red - Why is he a perfect fit for Broncos?

Purple - Just does not make sense

Blue - Please explain?

[HolyDiver]

If your friend is a Fullback then I guess he won't be playinmg TE anytime soon. As far as Dumervil goes, he had 20 sacks last season. He obvioulsy knows how to get to the QB. He's quick and strong, compact, really the perfect size of a DE the BRONCOS have been looking for. Not the Chiefs, not the Raiders, the BRONCOS. He will fit in well....................oh, in my opinion I should say. ( should go without saying, but I won't take any chances with you).

Yellow - Whos talking about other teams :confused: my quesiton is Why wont he fit on those teams?

Red - Why is he a perfect fit for Broncos?

Purple - Just does not make sense

Blue - Please explain?

We don't need a big DE.................Trevor Pryce was that guy around 290 or so. He wasn't quick enough. Dumervil is small and compact. Very quick and has great strength. I really think he'll do well for us.

[GridironChamp]

We don't need a big DE.................Trevor Pryce was that guy around 290 or so. He wasn't quick enough. Dumervil is small and compact. Very quick and has great strength. I really think he'll do well for us.

Hmmmm would you like to specify how he will be so good if all of the other good DE's last year were much bigger. To see thier sizes look at my post.

:salute:

[HolyDiver]

Hmmmm would you like to specify how he will be so good if all of the other good DE's last year were much bigger. To see thier sizes look at my post.

:salute:

Dumervile is 258.......................that is more than big enough....................Mathis from Indy is 235. Bert Berry was listed at 250 when he was a Bronco. Reggie Hayward was 255 his rookie year. ...................... So, what's your point.

[Nick]

far as Dumervil goes, he had 20 sacks last season. He obvioulsy knows how to get to the QB. He's quick and strong, compact, really the perfect size

You really can't go by stats in college. Yes he had a lot of sacks in college but not when going against top tier OL. Hes a little quick and pretty strong but not the perfect size.

He is no where near prototypical size for a DE.

if you mean by compact under 6' that is not always a benefit.

I will add the main reason he was succesfull going against people he did was more heart then anything. He never gave up and put out 110 percent. With him adapting to NFL and going against more Eliete OL and be more of just a pass rush situtation guy. Only time will tell.

To conclude to your Stat about sacks... there person with most forced fumbles went undrafted.


With him able to get to QB he did not show that at senior. He can be good if able to use his size as his advatage like Freeney but for every freeney there is well ALOT of people with non prototypical size at a DE position able to be an everydown player.

I think his willing to never give up will help him but again only time can tell...

[Nick]

If your friend is a Fullback then I guess he won't be playinmg TE anytime soon. As far as Dumervil goes, he had 20 sacks last season. He obvioulsy knows how to get to the QB. He's quick and strong, compact, really the perfect size of a DE the BRONCOS have been looking for. Not the Chiefs, not the Raiders, the BRONCOS. He will fit in well....................oh, in my opinion I should say. ( should go without saying, but I won't take any chances with you).

Yellow - Whos talking about other teams :confused: my quesiton is Why wont he fit on those teams?

Red - Why is he a perfect fit for Broncos?

Purple - Just does not make sense

Blue - Please explain?

I will submit what I said again because you did not respond to one question. :confused:

[HolyDiver]

I will submit what I said again because you did not respond to one question. :confused:

I would, but I really don't think you would understand. I've said it once already. I think Dumervil will do well, that's all I'm saying about the subject.

[Nick]

I would, but I really don't think you would understand. I've said it once already. I think Dumervil will do well, that's all I'm saying about the subject.

I will understand if you can support your opinion with some kind of knowledge. You have not said anything as of yet that is any where near credible what so ever.

If you can't handle the heat get out of the kitchen those questions will wait for you if you want to read up on him :D

[HolyDiver]

I will understand if you can support your opinion with some kind of knowledge. You have not said anything as of yet that is any where near credible what so ever.

If you can't handle the heat get out of the kitchen those questions will wait for you if you want to read up on him :D

SMH, OMG, I told you both, I think Dumvervil's quickness and strength will be the perfect fit, to go along with Gerrard Warren and Courtney Brown. What else exactly are you asking me. It doesn't matter what every other DE in the league weighs, or runs a 40 in or has for breakfast. You two, are obviously stat guys. You look at a stat sheet and determine if a player is good or not. LOL !!!!!!!!!!!!

[HolyDiver]

Want to read up on Terrell Davis....................Not fast, was one of the comments. A 6th round pick. Karl Mecklenburg.......................Too slow, to small, a 12th round draft pick. Stats don't measure desire and heart. Al Wilson is impressed by Dumervil and that is good enough for me.

[Nick]

SMH, OMG, I told you both, I think Dumvervil's quickness and strength will be the perfect fit, to go along with Gerrard Warren and Courtney Brown. What else exactly are you asking me. It doesn't matter what every other DE in the league weighs, or runs a 40 in or has for breakfast. You two, are obviously stat guys. You look at a stat sheet and determine if a player is good or not. LOL !!!!!!!!!!!!

Next time I will make sure I keep it a little more simple for you. Also not really that funny I will coment to you after you gain some knowledge of the player you are talking about and make a well a couple well put answers down... Instead of this nonsense.

Pretty funny guy :goofy:

[DrewB]

My credibility :laugh:

Your basing your opinion on Dumbervile because of highschool stats. So if thats the case i guess you are all ready drooling over my friend. As a freshmen in highschool on the football team he had 22 TD's and 975 rushing yds as a FB. I guess that means he will be a beast in the NFL O yeah, HE ISNT EVEN A STARTER, highschool stats mean nothing i dont care if you came from Miami, Hawaii, Cali. or New York, name another player on Dumbervile's high school football team that is the NFL right now.

There you go no competition = domination by an NFL caliber player

There you go again. Where did I ever say his HS stats would translate to the NFL?

Tell your buddy gratz,that is a very nice season for a FB.BTW do you tell him that he sucks because its just HS?Here's to the black eye he would give you if you said that :beer:

I have no idea if his HS has produced any other NFL players.Why don't you look something up for a change instead of just guessing your facts.

[GridironChamp]

Dumervile is 258.......................that is more than big enough....................Mathis from Indy is 235. Bert Berry was listed at 250 when he was a Bronco. Reggie Hayward was 255 his rookie year. ...................... So, what's your point.

Berry is 237 and he is 6'3" not 5'11" :duh:

and hayward is 270 and 6'5" but nice try of attempting to side step the point that good DE's now-a-days are bigger than 5'11" 258lbs

[HolyDiver]

Berry is 237 and he is 6'3" not 5'11" :duh:

and hayward is 270 and 6'5" but nice try of attempting to side step the point that good DE's now-a-days are bigger than 5'11" 258lbs

Hey stat guy, Hayward was 255 as a rookie. Berry was 250 when he WAS A BRONCO . LMAO..............Dude, you really are a piece of work.

[GridironChamp]

There you go again. Where did I ever say his HS stats would translate to the NFL?

Tell your buddy gratz,that is a very nice season for a FB.BTW do you tell him that he sucks because its just HS?Here's to the black eye he would give you if you said that :beer:

I have no idea if his HS has produced any other NFL players.Why don't you look something up for a change instead of just guessing your facts.

Your making a big deal of his hs stats, why else would you if you didnt think it meant something :confused:

My friend doesnt spout off about how those stats make him a great NFL FB already, like you are doing for Dumbervile. HS stats mean nothing in the NFL thats the bottom line.

You can rant and rave all you want but find me one NFL coach that looks at HS stats to determine who is good and who isnt

[GridironChamp]

Hey stat guy, Hayward was 255 as a rookie. Berry was 250 when he WAS A BRONCO . LMAO..............Dude, you really are a piece of work.

Give me a link for Berry and Hayward sucked until his 3rd season i would assume thats when he gained wieght :duh:

[HolyDiver]

Give me a link for Berry and Hayward sucked until his 3rd season i would assume thats when he gained wieght :duh:

Hayward was very good his rookie year at 255. The next season ( his 2nd) he added 15 pounds in the off season and you could tell he was having a tough time adjusting to the extra weight. The next season he played well again. As for Berry, he was listed at 250................Him and Hayward both are now listed at 270. I've collected every Street and Smith since 1987. It has all the draft picks that year, by team, and their ht and wt. You may be able to go to their website, but having the mags really helps.

[GridironChamp]

Hayward was very good his rookie year at 255. The next season ( his 2nd) he added 15 pounds in the off season and you could tell he was having a tough time adjusting to the extra weight. The next season he played well again. As for Berry, he was listed at 250................Him and Hayward both are now listed at 270. I've collected every Street and Smith since 1987. It has all the draft picks that year, by team, and their ht and wt. You may be able to go to their website, but having the mags really helps.

Give me a link or your posting BS :duh:

Hayward good his first year? 3 sacks 15 tackles (thats good, in that case Dumervil will be good)

[HolyDiver]

Give me a link or your posting BS :duh:

Hayward good his first year? 3 sacks 15 tackles (thats good, in that case Dumervil will be good)

Yes stat guy, he played well for us as a rookie. He showed alot of potential. I wish we still had him. ...................... Go find the info yourself, or ask one the the members here like EastCoast, or Bronco Bible, or Topscribe or Colorado69, someone that actually knows about the Broncos unlike yourself.

[cswil]

Yes stat guy, he played well for us as a rookie. He showed alot of potential. I wish we still had him. ...................... Go find the info yourself, or ask one the the members here like EastCoast, or Bronco Bible, or Topscribe or Colorado69, someone that actually knows about the Broncos unlike yourself.


That hurts HD! You cant even include me in your little knowledge group?
BTW, I am stupid too according to said Chiefs fan.

[HolyDiver]

That hurts HD! You cant even include me in your little knowledge group?
BTW, I am stupid too according to said Chiefs fan.


Well, if you showed up on time, but whenever I look for you, you're out in the lobby smoking a cig. You're getting paid like the rest of us you know.

[Nick]

Yes stat guy, he played well for us as a rookie. He showed alot of potential. I wish we still had him. ...................... Go find the info yourself, or ask one the the members here like EastCoast, or Bronco Bible, or Topscribe or Colorado69, someone that actually knows about the Broncos unlike yourself.

Still you just get layed out you cant proved a link? :laugh:

[HolyDiver]

Still you just get layed out you cant proved a link? :laugh:

I'm curious, who is your favorite football team again?

[HolyDiver]

Still you just get layed out you cant proved a link? :laugh:

By the way, I'm at work and cannot access much from here. If I could, I would be in the Broncosfreak, where they don't ask foolish questions like, give me a link.

[Nick]

By the way, I'm at work and cannot access much from here. If I could, I would be in the Broncosfreak, where they don't ask foolish questions like, give me a link.

You got to prove you non-credible opinions one way or another. You still have not answered my questions.. why. Because you don't know and can't plain and simple.

Layed out :goofy:

[HolyDiver]

You got to prove you non-credible opinions one way or another. You still have not answered my questions.. why. Because you don't know and can't plain and simple.

Layed out :goofy:

Opinions are not proved, that's why they are called OPINIONS............... LMAO....................

[Nick]

Opinions are not proved, that's why they are called OPINIONS............... LMAO....................

Sorry let me correct myself. Your opinions are rdiculous.

on any information regarding statements, facts from you, and flat out regarding about football is always false and can never back anything up with "proof"

When some one asks you to back anything up you try to bring it into a personel note or avoid any questions.

SO lets try again respond from the previouse questions :huh:

[HolyDiver]

Sorry let me correct myself. Your opinions are rdiculous.

on any information regarding statements, facts from you, and flat out regarding about football is always false and can never back anything up with "proof"

When some one asks you to back anything up you try to bring it into a personel note or avoid any questions.

SO lets try again respond from the previouse questions :huh:

Okay, thanks for stoppin by son.

[DrewB]

Your making a big deal of his hs stats, why else would you if you didnt think it meant something :confused:

My friend doesnt spout off about how those stats make him a great NFL FB already, like you are doing for Dumbervile. HS stats mean nothing in the NFL thats the bottom line.

You can rant and rave all you want but find me one NFL coach that looks at HS stats to determine who is good and who isnt


*SIGH* please show me where i said anything that you just spewed off in this last post.

All I have said is 78 sacks is a great acomplishment.
You say it means nothing,and for the NFL you are right...BUT IT IS STILL A GREAT ACOMPLISHMENT.

John Madden said DJ Williams was NFL ready in high school. There's one :D

[HolyDiver]

*SIGH* please show me where i said anything that you just spewed off in this last post.

All I have said is 78 sacks is a great acomplishment.
You say it means nothing,and for the NFL you are right...BUT IT IS STILL A GREAT ACOMPLISHMENT.

John Madden said DJ Williams was NFL ready in high school. There's one :D

You have to understand, he's playing X-Box and posting at the same time. When you mention Dumervil, he probably thinks you are referring to a Halo character. Everytime I tell him simply that I think Dumvervil is a perfect fit for our Defense. His response is.............." show me a link" Im like, ***?

[kmartin575]

If your friend is a Fullback then I guess he won't be playinmg TE anytime soon. As far as Dumervil goes, he had 20 sacks last season. He obvioulsy knows how to get to the QB. He's quick and strong, compact, really the perfect size of a DE the BRONCOS have been looking for. Not the Chiefs, not the Raiders, the BRONCOS. He will fit in well....................oh, in my opinion I should say. ( should go without saying, but I won't take any chances with you).

Chris Gocong was the better college DE because he had 23 sacks last year.

[HolyDiver]

Chris Gocong was the better college DE because he had 23 sacks last year.

If you say so.

[GridironChamp]

*SIGH* please show me where i said anything that you just spewed off in this last post.

All I have said is 78 sacks is a great acomplishment.
You say it means nothing,and for the NFL you are right...BUT IT IS STILL A GREAT ACOMPLISHMENT.

John Madden said DJ Williams was NFL ready in high school. There's one :D

Number one i never said it was a great accomplishment, i just merely said that if means nothing in the NFL. And if i did slip up and say it wasnt a good accomplishment im surely i mistyped something.

But his stats didnt make Madden say that, his play did. ;) No doubt Dumbervile belongs in the NFL just i dont believe he will be a "BEAST!"

[GridironChamp]

You have to understand, he's playing X-Box and posting at the same time. When you mention Dumervil, he probably thinks you are referring to a Halo character. Everytime I tell him simply that I think Dumvervil is a perfect fit for our Defense. His response is.............." show me a link" Im like, ***?
Personal attacks again huh?

Your not even good at those :laugh:

1 I dont own a X-box.
2 I dont play Halo because i dont have a X-box, I have PS2 and i dont play unless im playing online :duh: That means i cant post and play at the same time in case you still dont get it....

3 Why cant you show a link? Prove your right with links and stats.

BTW i've been meaning to ask is "stat guy" some kind of kiddy name your trying to call me? Becuase thats alot more of a compliment than it is a dis.


So post those links anytime you want to...

[HolyDiver]

Personal attacks again huh?

Your not even good at those :laugh:

1 I dont own a X-box.
2 I dont play Halo because i dont have a X-box, I have PS2 and i dont play unless im playing online :duh: That means i cant post and play at the same time in case you still dont get it....

3 Why cant you show a link? Prove your right with links and stats.

BTW i've been meaning to ask is "stat guy" some kind of kiddy name your trying to call me? Becuase thats alot more of a compliment than it is a dis.


So post those links anytime you want to...

No, stat guy means you base your opinions soley on stats. Not by watching a player or team, but by getting on the internent, and looking up numbers. That's why links are so important to you. So, if your ex-girlfriend says her new boyfriend is a better kisser than you, just take her word for it. There are not stats for those types of things....................well, not that I know of anyway. Try watching a football game or isolating on a player and leave the stat crap for the other member here that needs links.

[GridironChamp]

No, stat guy means you base your opinions soley on stats. Not by watching a player or team, but by getting on the internent, and looking up numbers. That's why links are so important to you. So, if your ex-girlfriend says her new boyfriend is a better kisser than you, just take her word for it. There are not stats for those types of things....................well, not that I know of anyway. Try watching a football game or isolating on a player and leave the stat crap for the other member here that needs links.
Actually anyones stats mean more than your OPINION :duh:

Stats- proven
Opinion- unproven

Actually i watch quite a bit off football i probably watch even more than you, but that is an observation, AKA an opinion.

You may want to live your life on opinions i would rather know the facts than someones opinion.
So why dont you try using some facts to back up your opinions like most other posters on here.

[HolyDiver]

Actually anyones stats mean more than your OPINION :duh:

Stats- proven
Opinion- unproven

Actually i watch quite a bit off football i probably watch even more than you, but that is an observation, AKA an opinion.

You may want to live your life on opinions i would rather know the facts than someones opinion.
So why dont you try using some facts to back up your opinions like most other posters on here.


LMAO.........................Stats are overrrated. Louis Wright had only 25 int's in his career. Deltha O'Neal had atleast 14 while he was a Bronco and 10 I believe as a Bengal so far. Just checked, he has 29 total. Does that mean O'Neal is better than Wright was?

[GridironChamp]

LMAO.........................Stats are overrrated. Louis Wright had only 25 int's in his caree. Deltha O'neal had atleast 14 whilehe was a Bronco and 10 I believe as a Bengal so far. Does that mean O'neal is better than Wright was?

Hmmmm what are you looking for? :confused:

Do you want a shutdown CB?
A CB for the run?
A CB that is good all around and not amazing at everything?
A CB that makes big plays?
A CB for the big situation?

You gotta be more specific to pick who is better. :coffee:

[HolyDiver]

Hmmmm what are you looking for? :confused:

Do you want a shutdown CB?
A CB for the run?
A CB that is good all around and not amazing at everything?
A CB that makes big plays?
A CB for the big situation?

You gotta be more specific to pick who is better. :coffee:

Just answer the question............................. :coffee:

[cswil]

Hmmmm what are you looking for? :confused:

Do you want a shutdown CB?
A CB for the run?
A CB that is good all around and not amazing at everything?
A CB that makes big plays?
A CB for the big situation?

You gotta be more specific to pick who is better. :coffee:


All of the above. Champ Bailey.
The rules changes have really changed the way that CBs are playing these days. There will be some toast jobs, more gambles, more flags. None are going to be true "shutdown" corners anymore now that they cant get their hands on them as much. CBs are at a disadvantage against WRs, especially those huge fast WRs like TO/Moss. The good ones still make plays, support the run, make gambles that pay off, and lets you take your mind off of one side of the field. That is Champ Bailey.

[HolyDiver]

All of the above. Champ Bailey.
The rules changes have really changed the way that CBs are playing these days. There will be some toast jobs, more gambles, more flags. None are going to be true "shutdown" corners anymore now that they cant get their hands on them as much. CBs are at a disadvantage against WRs, especially those huge fast WRs like TO/Moss. The good ones still make plays, support the run, make gambles that pay off, and lets you take your mind off of one side of the field. That is Champ Bailey.

Okay, he is about to ask you for a link.

[GridironChamp]

Just answer the question............................. :coffee:
What am i looking for? :confused:

Better overall? you coulda just said that.

They are uncomparable. Different time periods different rulse :duh:


But if i had to take one for one game, the SB, i would take Oneal. But the better overall CB is Wright.

Wright had 26Ints and he is too old to see passes deflected. That is big to a CB

[GridironChamp]

All of the above. Champ Bailey.
The rules changes have really changed the way that CBs are playing these days. There will be some toast jobs, more gambles, more flags. None are going to be true "shutdown" corners anymore now that they cant get their hands on them as much. CBs are at a disadvantage against WRs, especially those huge fast WRs like TO/Moss. The good ones still make plays, support the run, make gambles that pay off, and lets you take your mind off of one side of the field. That is Champ Bailey.

Wow this is almost identical to my assumption of Bailey being a shutdown CB, that i posted in GD yesterday :beer:

I agree, you got a CP coming your way good post

[HolyDiver]

What am i looking for? :confused:

Better overall? you coulda just said that.

They are uncomparable. Different time periods different rulse :duh:


But if i had to take one for one game, the SB, i would take Oneal. But the better overall CB is Wright.

Wright had 26Ints and he is too old to see passes deflected. That is big to a CB

Do you even know who Louis Wright is?

[GridironChamp]

Do you even know who Louis Wright is?

Older CB for Denver, in the probowl what 5 times? or was it 6 :confused:

[HolyDiver]

Older CB for Denver, in the probowl what 5 times? or was it 6 :confused:

Older? Yeah, I guess you could say that. He retired around 1987.

[GridironChamp]

Older? Yeah, I guess you could say that. He retired around 1987.

Before i was born = older to me ;)


And i know that the stats recorded then werent very good cause they dont have Pdef

[cswil]

Louis Wright was a great CB on a great defense. He is from the orange crush days, so HD loves him, since HD is about 67 years old. Dont get him started on Otis Armstrong.

[HolyDiver]

Louis Wright was a great CB on a great defense. He is from the orange crush days, so HD loves him, since HD is about 67 years old. Dont get him started on Otis Armstrong.


You like Otis too.................

[Colorado69]

I hadn't heard Louis Wright's name in a long time. I kept hoping that he would be at the Alumni table at the Fan Fair. He was special, as he had good height and speed. He hit very well also. I hope the current defense matures into another Orange Crush. Too many fans today never got to watch the Crush do its thing year after year. I did get Coach Joe Collier's sig at the Fan Fair. I think Dumervil would have fit the personality of the Crush teams. He is undersized, but has great instincts and several great moves as a DE. Shanahan has already mentioned moving him around on the line. Kinda reminds me of Karl Mecklenburg and his versatility. Preseason should be fun this year to see some impressive rookies.

[UnderArmour]

Where is the option for 0 on this poll?

[kmartin575]

I hadn't heard Louis Wright's name in a long time. I kept hoping that he would be at the Alumni table at the Fan Fair. He was special, as he had good height and speed. He hit very well also. I hope the current defense matures into another Orange Crush. Too many fans today never got to watch the Crush do its thing year after year. I did get Coach Joe Collier's sig at the Fan Fair. I think Dumervil would have fit the personality of the Crush teams. He is undersized, but has great instincts and several great moves as a DE. Shanahan has already mentioned moving him around on the line. Kinda reminds me of Karl Mecklenburg and his versatility. Preseason should be fun this year to see some impressive rookies.

Denver doesn't have the defensive line to be completely dominant on defense. They also don't have an Atwater at safety.