8/3 Camp Report from Orangemane

[LDB]

Courtesy of SoCalBronco from the Mane...

QUARTERBACKS

Shaky. All of them. Jake connected early with Kircus but lead him in a way that could have gotten him nailed. He later completed a throw to Clark, but it was behind him. Jake had some good connections with Scheffler in the red zone drills though. He put one up on the sideline near the goal and Scheffler came down with it over Champ. Jake did have two interceptions today, one by Fox who stepped in front of the reciever on a slant and another by Al. Jake also put too much on it on a deep ball to Watts.

Cutler made some plays but also had his share of struggles. The pass rush early on forced him into a bad throw. He led Alexander on a deep ball a little too much too. Khan had a great observation on Jay. When he throws to sideline routes on outs and comebacks to his left, they seem to be a little off, but when these routes are thrown to the right, they are spot on, so that is something he has to work on a little bit. He did throw some sweet balls though on slants. He had another real nice dart as he usually has a few times a day but it was dropped by Terrell. Overall, he was up and down though.

BVP was BVP. Inconsistent, but not horrible.

RUNNING BACKS

In the beginning of practice, they worked on runs vs. 8 man fronts and predictably all the backs generally struggled to find any room to run, although Cobbs had a few decent plays, which was surprising given his struggles. Against the 7 man fronts, what has been happening in camp the rest of time held up today too: The Bells are clearly ahead of everyone else. Tatum contineud to find creases and Mike Bell continues to hit the hole hard and can cut real quick. Khan and I were talking about him a little and he noted that Mike Bell is kind of a combination of MA and Tatum. He's got that speed and acceleration but he can also play the physical game and read whats going on. Tatum had the best run in practice. In the last third of the practice, he made a sweet cutback and just totally exploded through the line down the field. He was never touched at any point. He's still not as consistent as Mike Bell on a carry to carry basis, but he is playing well out there. I noticed Mike Bell block Corey Jackson on a pass play and held up his ground pretty well.

WIDE RECIEVERS AND TIGHT ENDS

Marshall had an up and down day. He made a couple mental mistakes in terms of lining up in one place until he was told to go in motion to another place and he was chewed out by Shanny for dropping a ball on a square out from the slot when he turned his head around for the ball late. He did have some good catches today though. He caught several drags. They gave Walker the morning off and ofcourse Rod is out with his minor hammy thing. I thought Terrell was consistent (but for one drop) as was Clark. Darius helped himself out today with a nice endzone grab on a throw from BVP beating Curome Cox. He also had a CB beat on a deep ball that Jake overthrew.

Scheffler returned to full beast form today. He made a bunch of receptions and some of them down the field too. He had that nice sideline catch beating Champ. He beat Lynch on a corner route and hauled it in, got some props for that. None of the other TEs really did much. Nate Jackson is hurt again with some kind of injury.

OFFENSIVE LINE

Again, I know this sounds repetitive but the OL did a good job in the run game, but had some issues pass protecting. Foster continues to disappoint me. He got owned by Lang a couple times. Lepsis got beat only once though that I saw and that was by Corey Jackson. Chris Myers sort of got confused on a twist. Kuper has been getting some love lately but on a stunt, Ekuban got by him and Kuper was later beat by someone else. Meadows was not impressive in pass protection either. Now I'll give him a break on that since he has just gotten back into the grove of things, but Engelberger beat him early in practice (John was real good today for the first time in camp).

DEFENSIVE LINE

Yep, Roh, they are getting some decent pass rush. John Engelberger had an outstanding day. He started the day well shedding a lineman to get to the back. He later beat Meadows in pass rushing. He teamed with Ian later to get a would be sack. I thought he played really well today. The DL did well stopping the run in 8 man fronts but still struggled against the run in 7 man fronts. It may be because Coyer is now lessening their responsibilities against the run a little, though. But they are definitely having some issues against the run. Dumervil batted down a Jake pass and again had a would be sack. Corey Jackson is doing okay too in pass rush as he has the last few days. Didnt see alot of pass rushing from Warren but he helped to stuff a couple of run plays. Lang was very good.

LINEBACKERS

The starters did a good job again. Big Al had an interception. Ian had a nice hit on someone and played good. DJ had a TFL early on against Dayne, as did Nate Webster. Nate had a real nice blowup in the backfield. Did not notice Hollowell today. Vaughn got exposed a little against Scheffler.

SECONDARY

Fox was the best player on the field today, arguably. It was good to see him comeback from a poor day yesterday. He was dominant in the red zone drills especially. He went up against the much bigger Marshall on a fade and broke it up in the back of the endzone. Shortly thereafter, he broke up another endzone fade, this time to Watts. And, as mentioned earlier, he picked off a Jake throw on a slant. D-Will was okay. I didn't watch Paymah alot, but Med said he is getting better. Tyler Everett, the rookie from Ohio State had a nice day against the run. He helped to blow up a few runs when he was the extra man in the box in the 8 man fronts vs. the run. Shoate is getting better, he may be moving up the charts a little.He is definitely ahead of Willie and might be pushing Paymah. He deflected a ball away from Clark. Sam Brandon remains out with injury.

[dontfeedthenerd]

Good to hear about Engelberger doing something. His name hasn't come up a lot recently.

Bell and Bell, that sounds good. We'll see once preseason games start up tho. Once the real bullets start flying, the true colors show.

[Bronco T]

Thanks for the info........I think Scheffler is going to turn some heads this preseason. I saw him last Sunday and he looked quick and grabbed everything thrown to him.

[ReleaseTheBeast7]

It's damn good that we're getting that pass rush going! :rockon:

Also, once again... I LOVE what I'm hearing about Tatum and Mike -- this could be a serious duo this year.

[Nick]

I love when this gets posted every day :beer:

[TXBRONC]

Thank you very much LDB. I'm glad to see some print on my adoptee D.J. Williams. I have just one question what does TFL stand for?

As for the rest of you young clowns don't laugh at me. You'll hurt my feelings. ;)

[ReleaseTheBeast7]

Thank you very much LDB. I'm glad to see some print on my adoptee D.J. Williams. I have just one question what does TFL stand for?

As for the rest of you young clowns don't laugh at me. You'll hurt my feelings. ;)

Tackle For a Loss

[TXBRONC]

Tackle For a Loss

Thanks. (Me= :duh: )

[BayAreaBronco]

The Bells are clearly ahead of everyone else. Tatum contineud to find creases and Mike Bell continues to hit the hole hard and can cut real quick. Khan and I were talking about him a little and he noted that Mike Bell is kind of a combination of MA and Tatum. He's got that speed and acceleration but he can also play the physical game and read whats going on.

Bold = Good to hear!!

Bold + Orange = OoOooO yeah baby!!! Pound that ball.

Thanks for sharing the updates.

[The Hamburgler]

Mike Bell Rocks. :D good for everyone else especially Foxworth. Foxworth is awesome too.

[OrangePeel]

am I the only one who finds it funny that Mike Bell, who's name is basically MA and TB's name combined, is drawing comparisons as that, Mike Anderson and Tatum Bell combined?

[JRWIZ]

Thanks. (Me= :duh: )

Don't feel bad, I was gonna ask the same thing.

[The Hamburgler]

am I the only one who finds it funny that Mike Bell, who's name is basically MA and TB's name combined, is drawing comparisons as that, Mike Anderson and Tatum Bell combined?

Probably. :D But I just noticed that.

[broncos_mtnman]

Isn't this like the third day in a row that comments have been made from camp about how Jake is "off-target" on several of his throws?

Seems like he hasn't improved in that area at all from last year. Remember the hammering Putzier took on several off-target throws, along with the missed throws to Lelie?

It's no secret (not a bash) that Jake has the tendency to be off-target (over-throwing, throwing behind the receiver, etc....). He's been that way his whole time here.

It appears to continue to be an area of weakness.

Concerning Jay's throws. That weakness to the left is something I remember reading in one of the pre-draft reports on him. He apparently needs to continue working on getting better in that area.

As far as BVP goes, I think we are seeing why he's likely to be 3rd string (or gone) by the time the season starts. He simply hasn't put it together.

I'm excited about what we're hearing about Mike Bell. Could be another one of those Shanny "diamonds" he finds.

The defense sounds like it's ahead of the offense at this stage of camp. I guess that's to be expected this early. The offense has more new players than the D does.

[WildHorse]

Isn't this like the third day in a row that comments have been made from camp about how Jake is "off-target" on several of his throws?

Seems like he hasn't improved in that area at all from last year. Remember the hammering Putzier took on several off-target throws, along with the missed throws to Lelie?

It's no secret (not a bash) that Jake has the tendency to be off-target (over-throwing, throwing behind the receiver, etc....). He's been that way his whole time here.

It appears to continue to be an area of weakness.

Concerning Jay's throws. That weakness to the left is something I remember reading in one of the pre-draft reports on him. He apparently needs to continue working on getting better in that area.

As far as BVP goes, I think we are seeing why he's likely to be 3rd string (or gone) by the time the season starts. He simply hasn't put it together.

I'm excited about what we're hearing about Mike Bell. Could be another one of those Shanny "diamonds" he finds.

The defense sounds like it's ahead of the offense at this stage of camp. I guess that's to be expected this early. The offense has more new players than the D does.

Regarding your last paragraph--from what I saw in camp, the 1st Offense was ahead of the 1st D when running against the 7-man front, the 1st D ahead of the 1st O against when 1st D playing 8-man front and the 1st D slightly ahead (or maybe even) of the O in the passing game (tougher to tell because they weren't sacking and they weren't laying out receivers). The 1st offensive line really looked like they were rolling in the running game!! Coordinated pass blocking did not look sharp.

[MindField]

Courtesy of SoCalBronco from the Mane...

QUARTERBACKS

Shaky. All of them. Jake connected early with Kircus but lead him in a way that could have gotten him nailed. He later completed a throw to Clark, but it was behind him. Jake had some good connections with Scheffler in the red zone drills though. He put one up on the sideline near the goal and Scheffler came down with it over Champ. Jake did have two interceptions today, one by Fox who stepped in front of the reciever on a slant and another by Al. Jake also put too much on it on a deep ball to Watts.

Cutler made some plays but also had his share of struggles. The pass rush early on forced him into a bad throw. He led Alexander on a deep ball a little too much too. Khan had a great observation on Jay. When he throws to sideline routes on outs and comebacks to his left, they seem to be a little off, but when these routes are thrown to the right, they are spot on, so that is something he has to work on a little bit. He did throw some sweet balls though on slants. He had another real nice dart as he usually has a few times a day but it was dropped by Terrell. Overall, he was up and down though.

BVP was BVP. Inconsistent, but not horrible.

RUNNING BACKS

In the beginning of practice, they worked on runs vs. 8 man fronts and predictably all the backs generally struggled to find any room to run, although Cobbs had a few decent plays, which was surprising given his struggles. Against the 7 man fronts, what has been happening in camp the rest of time held up today too: The Bells are clearly ahead of everyone else. Tatum contineud to find creases and Mike Bell continues to hit the hole hard and can cut real quick. Khan and I were talking about him a little and he noted that Mike Bell is kind of a combination of MA and Tatum. He's got that speed and acceleration but he can also play the physical game and read whats going on. Tatum had the best run in practice. In the last third of the practice, he made a sweet cutback and just totally exploded through the line down the field. He was never touched at any point. He's still not as consistent as Mike Bell on a carry to carry basis, but he is playing well out there. I noticed Mike Bell block Corey Jackson on a pass play and held up his ground pretty well.

WIDE RECIEVERS AND TIGHT ENDS

Marshall had an up and down day. He made a couple mental mistakes in terms of lining up in one place until he was told to go in motion to another place and he was chewed out by Shanny for dropping a ball on a square out from the slot when he turned his head around for the ball late. He did have some good catches today though. He caught several drags. They gave Walker the morning off and ofcourse Rod is out with his minor hammy thing. I thought Terrell was consistent (but for one drop) as was Clark. Darius helped himself out today with a nice endzone grab on a throw from BVP beating Curome Cox. He also had a CB beat on a deep ball that Jake overthrew.

Scheffler returned to full beast form today. He made a bunch of receptions and some of them down the field too. He had that nice sideline catch beating Champ. He beat Lynch on a corner route and hauled it in, got some props for that. None of the other TEs really did much. Nate Jackson is hurt again with some kind of injury.

OFFENSIVE LINE

Again, I know this sounds repetitive but the OL did a good job in the run game, but had some issues pass protecting. Foster continues to disappoint me. He got owned by Lang a couple times. Lepsis got beat only once though that I saw and that was by Corey Jackson. Chris Myers sort of got confused on a twist. Kuper has been getting some love lately but on a stunt, Ekuban got by him and Kuper was later beat by someone else. Meadows was not impressive in pass protection either. Now I'll give him a break on that since he has just gotten back into the grove of things, but Engelberger beat him early in practice (John was real good today for the first time in camp).

DEFENSIVE LINE

Yep, Roh, they are getting some decent pass rush. John Engelberger had an outstanding day. He started the day well shedding a lineman to get to the back. He later beat Meadows in pass rushing. He teamed with Ian later to get a would be sack. I thought he played really well today. The DL did well stopping the run in 8 man fronts but still struggled against the run in 7 man fronts. It may be because Coyer is now lessening their responsibilities against the run a little, though. But they are definitely having some issues against the run. Dumervil batted down a Jake pass and again had a would be sack. Corey Jackson is doing okay too in pass rush as he has the last few days. Didnt see alot of pass rushing from Warren but he helped to stuff a couple of run plays. Lang was very good.

LINEBACKERS

The starters did a good job again. Big Al had an interception. Ian had a nice hit on someone and played good. DJ had a TFL early on against Dayne, as did Nate Webster. Nate had a real nice blowup in the backfield. Did not notice Hollowell today. Vaughn got exposed a little against Scheffler.

SECONDARY

Fox was the best player on the field today, arguably. It was good to see him comeback from a poor day yesterday. He was dominant in the red zone drills especially. He went up against the much bigger Marshall on a fade and broke it up in the back of the endzone. Shortly thereafter, he broke up another endzone fade, this time to Watts. And, as mentioned earlier, he picked off a Jake throw on a slant. D-Will was okay. I didn't watch Paymah alot, but Med said he is getting better. Tyler Everett, the rookie from Ohio State had a nice day against the run. He helped to blow up a few runs when he was the extra man in the box in the 8 man fronts vs. the run. Shoate is getting better, he may be moving up the charts a little.He is definitely ahead of Willie and might be pushing Paymah. He deflected a ball away from Clark. Sam Brandon remains out with injury.

I disagree with the RB statement that Tatum Bell is 'clearly' ahead of the other RB's....Dayne continues to run more reps with the first team than any of the other backs, and it is always Tatum spelling him as the starter rather than the other way around. If they were to play today, Dayne would be the starter, not T Bell.

Also, no mention of one of the most impressive players in Camp so far, WR David Kircus, who Bill Williamson mentioned in today's D Post.

[jhns]

I disagree with the RB statement that Tatum Bell is 'clearly' ahead of the other RB's....Dayne continues to run more reps with the first team than any of the other backs, and it is always Tatum spelling him as the starter rather than the other way around. If they were to play today, Dayne would be the starter, not T Bell.

Also, no mention of one of the most impressive players in Camp so far, WR David Kircus, who Bill Williamson mentioned in today's D Post.

Then again that could have nothing to do with it since this is now the third year with Bell and I'm sure they have a real good feel for him. Dayne is only here for his second and they may just want more looks at him since he hasn't been here as long. I don't think you can at all go by what team someone is playing on in training camp or how many reps they get to say who the coaches like as the starter or to determain how good they are doing. What exactly do you even mean "Tatum spelling him as the starter" because I don't think I get it.

[Bronco T]

it doesnt matter who is getting reps with who right now, once the preseason starts whoever has the hot hand will start.

[jhns]

it doesnt matter who is getting reps with who right now, once the preseason starts whoever has the hot hand will start.

I don't even think that will tell you. When the regular season starts that is when we will know the starters. - Probably after the last preseason game they will have a final depth chart for starting the season.

[DAYNETRAYNE]

hasnt it been stated that dayne was re-signed to fill the role that Anderson played last year. And they felt they had a younger version of Ma in Dayne, and that was another reason why thye let him go. :confused: If i'm wrong please let me know.

[LDB]

I disagree with the RB statement that Tatum Bell is 'clearly' ahead of the other RB's....Dayne continues to run more reps with the first team than any of the other backs, and it is always Tatum spelling him as the starter rather than the other way around. If they were to play today, Dayne would be the starter, not T Bell.

Also, no mention of one of the most impressive players in Camp so far, WR David Kircus, who Bill Williamson mentioned in today's D Post.

It isn't as much about which team you are running with as it is what you are doing with the carries. Right now, from what people are saying...Tatum Bell and Mike Bell are doing more with their carries than Dayne is. Shanahan hasn't designated a starter...so the job is up in the air...the RB who does the most with his opportunities will get the job.

Feel free to disagree with the camp reports all you want...it isn't my notes (I am not there), just relaying information from the Mane. I am curious to know if you are there though? If so, let us know what you think (i.e. give us a report).

Bill Williamson is next to worthless. Sorry, his coverage is just not that great.

--------------------------------------------------


Here are Kaylore's (Khan's) input from the Mane...

Linebackers: Al Wilson broke up a screen pass that Dayne bobbled and took it to the house. He looked really good. The run defense was pretty good until the end. Webster had another big hit and is sharp out there. I'm very happy knowing he's back there.

Wideouts -

Brian Clark: He could be our Lelie replacement. He's not as good as Lelie on go routes, but he is better inside the hash marks than Lelie is but played track and has great speed. Decent hands for a track guy. Made some nice grabs and looks good running down field. Made a great snag at the one and touched his toes in just as he stepped out. Two refs were right next to him, so it was in.

Adams: Had some drops. On the script installs he made a half-assed effort to grab the ball and Shanahan was in his ear. Looks tired.

Kircus: Made some decent grabs but the secondary played well today and did a good job of defending him. He can catch the ball in traffic and that's a huge advantage.

Marshall: He had some mental hiccups today. Seemed to be having issues focusing. He was open on a square out and wasn't even looking at the ball and it hit him in the head. Shanahan told him to "get his head out of his ass." D-wil was covering. Funny thing was during the scripted plays he caught a ball and out of habit handed the refs the ball. Watson went off on him telling him to bring the ball back to the line. I thought it was funny because you just get used to doing certain things.

Terrell: had a drop but they were kind of off kilter throws. Is getting better in routes and worked on the second team.

Watts: He looked good today. No drops and made some good moves. The most impressive was seeing him block Curome Cox in the run. He blocks really well and much better than I expected for someone built like a twig.

Running backs - They all looked good today with the exception of Dayne, who wasn't terrible but had some problems.

Tatum Bell: To quote that faux report "Tatum was ripping huge gains!" Actually he just had one really nice run when they needed sixteen or seventeen yards to pick up a first down and he took it to the house. It was crazy because D-Wil was the only one who could keep up with him. He's improved a little bit every day I've seen him and his vision is much better.

Mike Bell: He made some nice runs. Run defense was better today, so he didn't a whole lot of big runs but averaged four to five per carry, I'd say. His vision and cutback ability is the best of backs.

Dayne: He just looks watered down. Still running with the first team but he's so average. Tippy toe steps, no burst and no power. Bleh. He fumbled and bobbled a screen pass that got picked by Al Wilson.

Cobbs: He actually did better today. Made some nice runs, kept his balance. Did a good job of lowering his head and plowing into the line.

I personally think the two backs should be Bell and Bell. Ding and Dong? Ok , you can shoot me.

Foxworth: Was really playing at a high level today. He protected his side of the field in redzone drills. Broke up a fade pattern, made some nice hits and picked a pass to Devoe and took it to the house. Really made me feel good about our second and third spot.

Bailey: No one threw at his receiver all day.

Everett: He actually got some action and I liked what he did. He's still learning and is far behind, but played well all things considered.

Cox: Played very well today. Likes to attack the run. Not very good at getting off blocks but he's more of a coverage guy anyways.

Abdullah: He's really very good. I love his run stuffing ability. Reads the right hole and attacks. Safeties can have a lot of preassure to make the right play if everyone on the offense is executing, and he plays it right.

[MindField]

It isn't as much about which team you are running with as it is what you are doing with the carries. Right now, from what people are saying...Tatum Bell and Mike Bell are doing more with their carries than Dayne is. Shanahan hasn't designated a starter...so the job is up in the air...the RB who does the most with his opportunities will get the job.

Feel free to disagree with the camp reports all you want...it isn't my notes (I am not there), just relaying information from the Mane. I am curious to know if you are there though? If so, let us know what you think (i.e. give us a report).

Bill Williamson is next to worthless. Sorry, his coverage is just not that great.

--------------------------------------------------


Here are Kaylore's (Khan's) input from the Mane...

Linebackers: Al Wilson broke up a screen pass that Dayne bobbled and took it to the house. He looked really good. The run defense was pretty good until the end. Webster had another big hit and is sharp out there. I'm very happy knowing he's back there.

Wideouts -

Brian Clark: He could be our Lelie replacement. He's not as good as Lelie on go routes, but he is better inside the hash marks than Lelie is but played track and has great speed. Decent hands for a track guy. Made some nice grabs and looks good running down field. Made a great snag at the one and touched his toes in just as he stepped out. Two refs were right next to him, so it was in.

Adams: Had some drops. On the script installs he made a half-assed effort to grab the ball and Shanahan was in his ear. Looks tired.

Kircus: Made some decent grabs but the secondary played well today and did a good job of defending him. He can catch the ball in traffic and that's a huge advantage.

Marshall: He had some mental hiccups today. Seemed to be having issues focusing. He was open on a square out and wasn't even looking at the ball and it hit him in the head. Shanahan told him to "get his head out of his ass." D-wil was covering. Funny thing was during the scripted plays he caught a ball and out of habit handed the refs the ball. Watson went off on him telling him to bring the ball back to the line. I thought it was funny because you just get used to doing certain things.

Terrell: had a drop but they were kind of off kilter throws. Is getting better in routes and worked on the second team.

Watts: He looked good today. No drops and made some good moves. The most impressive was seeing him block Curome Cox in the run. He blocks really well and much better than I expected for someone built like a twig.

Running backs - They all looked good today with the exception of Dayne, who wasn't terrible but had some problems.

Tatum Bell: To quote that faux report "Tatum was ripping huge gains!" Actually he just had one really nice run when they needed sixteen or seventeen yards to pick up a first down and he took it to the house. It was crazy because D-Wil was the only one who could keep up with him. He's improved a little bit every day I've seen him and his vision is much better.

Mike Bell: He made some nice runs. Run defense was better today, so he didn't a whole lot of big runs but averaged four to five per carry, I'd say. His vision and cutback ability is the best of backs.

Dayne: He just looks watered down. Still running with the first team but he's so average. Tippy toe steps, no burst and no power. Bleh. He fumbled and bobbled a screen pass that got picked by Al Wilson.

Cobbs: He actually did better today. Made some nice runs, kept his balance. Did a good job of lowering his head and plowing into the line.

I personally think the two backs should be Bell and Bell. Ding and Dong? Ok , you can shoot me.

Foxworth: Was really playing at a high level today. He protected his side of the field in redzone drills. Broke up a fade pattern, made some nice hits and picked a pass to Devoe and took it to the house. Really made me feel good about our second and third spot.

Bailey: No one threw at his receiver all day.

Everett: He actually got some action and I liked what he did. He's still learning and is far behind, but played well all things considered.

Cox: Played very well today. Likes to attack the run. Not very good at getting off blocks but he's more of a coverage guy anyways.

Abdullah: He's really very good. I love his run stuffing ability. Reads the right hole and attacks. Safeties can have a lot of preassure to make the right play if everyone on the offense is executing, and he plays it right.


Can't say I agree....I read alot of stuff from the Mane, that when I was there, was blatantly wrong, where Williamson basically has nailed it....I think you are kidding yourself if you would take the word of an ameataur report over a (well-respected) Professional who has access to info that the Mane, or any other fan source can't match.

Oh, and your statement about which team a player runs with not mattering runs in direct conflict to what Shanahan himself has stated multiple times....that is why he announces a depth chart at each postion. If you follow the previous camps, you will see that the players listed at the bottom of the charts are among the first to be cut.....So, the team a player runs with most certainly IS a solid indicator of how a player is doing in camp....this is by design. Shanahan and his staff always tout the importance of competition, and this is one way to generate it.

[tnedator]

Isn't this like the third day in a row that comments have been made from camp about how Jake is "off-target" on several of his throws?

Seems like he hasn't improved in that area at all from last year. Remember the hammering Putzier took on several off-target throws, along with the missed throws to Lelie?

It's no secret (not a bash) that Jake has the tendency to be off-target (over-throwing, throwing behind the receiver, etc....). He's been that way his whole time here.


Through the first couple days, they said he was on target, so whether he has improved is up for debate.

Regardless, I would agree that he has had a tendency to be off-target quite often. In fact, I think that might be one of the reasons people like Watts and Bell drop the ones that hit them right in their hands. They weren't expecting that! :)

[tnedator]

hasnt it been stated that dayne was re-signed to fill the role that Anderson played last year. And they felt they had a younger version of Ma in Dayne, and that was another reason why thye let him go. :confused: If i'm wrong please let me know.

I can't remember reading that. I did read the GM and Shanny saying that they don't know if Bell can carry the full load, and that if they had to go back to a system like last year it, it would be ok, because it was succesfull. That is paraphrasing of course, but the general idea.

EDITED

Here are some quotes:

"Everybody knows he's a big-play threat, and I think power running sometimes is more want than it is ability," Sundquist said. "The guy is built. It's not like we have a 5-foot-6, 170-pound running back who just runs in there and because of physics can't move the pile. Tatum has that ability.

"I think we've reached a point now in his career when we expect the 60-(yard run) ... but we expect a 3 and a cloud of dust, too."

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/sports/15188174.htm


"I think we can rush the football really well again with Ron Dayne filling Mike Anderson's role, Tatum Bell coming in a rotational (role) or even those two battling it out," General Manager Ted Sundquist said.

"Maybe Tatum (becomes) the No. 1 guy," Sundquist said. "I absolutely do (think he can). I think he runs with a little bit more power than people give him credit for. I've seen him turn his shoulder and take on a safety along the sidelines. No question about it -- he's got big-play, breakaway speed. He's got the vision and understands the cutback lanes, that sort of thing."

http://cbs4denver.com/broncos/local_story_208123145.html


Shanahan said Tatum Bell's speed and game-breaking ability will give him a chance to shine, but all of the other backs also will have a strong chance. Tatum Bell, Dayne and the departed Mike Anderson all played last season as Denver finished No. 2 in the NFL in rushing.

"We believe in our running game and we are confident we are going to have success whether it's one guy or two guys," Shanahan said. "That's what the preseason games are for, to see who'll step up."

Added Denver general manager Ted Sundquist: "If we get 1,800 yards, I don't care if it's one guy or two guys. As long as we get the yards."

http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_4099287

[TXBRONC]

hasnt it been stated that dayne was re-signed to fill the role that Anderson played last year. And they felt they had a younger version of Ma in Dayne, and that was another reason why thye let him go. :confused: If i'm wrong please let me know.

Yeah that was said, however, that doesn't mean the starting slot will be handed to him on asilver platter he has to earn.

[watchthemiddle]

Don't let teams around the league read this.

So far the scouting report on Cutler is he can only throw to his right.

I saw that with my own two eyes....a quick slant by Marshall from the slot was behind him. From the slot...not some deep out pattern. I am sure he will get better, but for a guy with the arm he has, a deep out to the right or left shouldn't be a problem.


Mike Bell is showing some good promise. Does anyone know his 40 time??

Not that it matters because TD didn't have a fast 40, but if anyone has seen M. Bell run, if he were wearing #30 it would be scary similar...just my opinion on his runnnig style .

[jhns]

So far the scouting report on Cutler is he can only throw to his right.

I saw that with my own two eyes....a quick slant by Marshall from the slot was behind him. From the slot...not some deep out pattern. I am sure he will get better, but for a guy with the arm he has, a deep out to the right or left shouldn't be a problem.


That won't matter to much... We can just get into a lot of formations with all the receivers lined up to the right, and BAM, problem solved.

[broncos_mtnman]

Regardless, I would agree that he has had a tendency to be off-target quite often. In fact, I think that might be one of the reasons people like Watts and Bell drop the ones that hit them right in their hands. They weren't expecting that! :)

ROTFLOL!!

Hey, we agreed on something.

Better watch out!! LOL!!

[tnedator]

ROTFLOL!!

Hey, we agreed on something.

Better watch out!! LOL!!

SEE, one of us is reasonable and can see both sides!!!

Sorry, couldn't help it on that one :)

[broncos_mtnman]

So far the scouting report on Cutler is he can only throw to his right.

I would hardly call being off target to his left the same thing as only being able to throw to his right.

If we went by that reasoning, we would have to say Jake can only throw short passes, since he's usually off target on deep ones.

Oh wait, that's true, isn't it?

Never mind....

:coffee:

[GIVEME6]

Isn't this like the third day in a row that comments have been made from camp about how Jake is "off-target" on several of his throws?

Seems like he hasn't improved in that area at all from last year. Remember the hammering Putzier took on several off-target throws, along with the missed throws to Lelie?

It's no secret (not a bash) that Jake has the tendency to be off-target (over-throwing, throwing behind the receiver, etc....). He's been that way his whole time here.

It appears to continue to be an area of weakness.

Concerning Jay's throws. That weakness to the left is something I remember reading in one of the pre-draft reports on him. He apparently needs to continue working on getting better in that area.

As far as BVP goes, I think we are seeing why he's likely to be 3rd string (or gone) by the time the season starts. He simply hasn't put it together.

I'm excited about what we're hearing about Mike Bell. Could be another one of those Shanny "diamonds" he finds.

The defense sounds like it's ahead of the offense at this stage of camp. I guess that's to be expected this early. The offense has more new players than the D does.


I agree on your comments about Jake. He also throws one of the worst spirals in the game IMO. Some of his passes remind me of Quincy Carter's wobbly ducks when he was with Dallas.

[vicious2500]

hasnt it been stated that dayne was re-signed to fill the role that Anderson played last year. And they felt they had a younger version of Ma in Dayne, and that was another reason why thye let him go. :confused: If i'm wrong please let me know.

Thus far in camp its been Mike Bell looking like the replacement to MA.

[BroncoDefense]

Can't say I agree....I read alot of stuff from the Mane, that when I was there, was blatantly wrong, where Williamson basically has nailed it....I think you are kidding yourself if you would take the word of an ameataur report over a (well-respected) Professional who has access to info that the Mane, or any other fan source can't match.

Oh, and your statement about which team a player runs with not mattering runs in direct conflict to what Shanahan himself has stated multiple times....that is why he announces a depth chart at each postion. If you follow the previous camps, you will see that the players listed at the bottom of the charts are among the first to be cut.....So, the team a player runs with most certainly IS a solid indicator of how a player is doing in camp....this is by design. Shanahan and his staff always tout the importance of competition, and this is one way to generate it.


First, I'm not sure if I would completely trust the guys at the mane, but I think they have just as valid an opinion as Bill Williamson. Does Williamson have some specific coaching background that he would be better able to interpret what happens? I actually like Williamson, and read his articles often, but I don't think because he works for a paper he automatically should engender more credence than others who watch the same practice.

Second, I would not read anything into the fact of who is running with the first team now. I remember two years ago when we signed two free agent tight ends (Byron Chamberlin and Jed Weaver). They ran with the first and second team offenses for the entire preseason. Then they both got cut at the last cut-downs. Weaver, we even gave a multi-year contract to, and he was totally suprised he was cut. Also, last year Jerry Rice ran with the 2nd team offense for the entire preseason and then was told he would probably be the 5th wr and could be deactivated, so he retired rather than be cut.

The point is I'm more inclined to believe that those who perform the best in camp have the best shot of sticking--and rightfully so. I think we'll have to wait until preseason games to judge for ourselves who we think is playing well, and it may not be first-teamers.

[broncos_mtnman]

I agree on your comments about Jake. He also throws one of the worst spirals in the game IMO. Some of his passes remind me of Quincy Carter's wobbly ducks when he was with Dallas.

You're right about the spirals too.

Have you seen any of the camp video on Cutler?

He throws a beautiful spiral.

[tnedator]

You're right about the spirals too.

Have you seen any of the camp video on Cutler?

He throws a beautiful spiral.

Can you throw a spiral while sitting on the bench???

[broncos_mtnman]

Can you throw a spiral while sitting on the bench???

And you wonder why we don't get along.....

:coffee:

[LDB]

You're right about the spirals too.

Have you seen any of the camp video on Cutler?

He throws a beautiful spiral.

I can't wait to see Cutler on the field. It sounds like he is picking up the NFL pretty quick. He certainly won't replace Jake by week 3 ( ;) ), but I am impressed with reports about him. One thing we can all be happy with, it seems that Shanahan has brought in a good amount of young talent to the team. Should translate to a good transition from the old to the young. :beer:

[DAYNETRAYNE]

Thus far in camp its been Mike Bell looking like the replacement to MA.

isnt he running with the third team? I would look like MA too. Preseason games will tell were he stands. :coffee:

[TXBRONC]

isnt he running with the third team? I would look like MA too. Preseason games will tell were he stands. :coffee:

From what I have heard just because he may be running with 3rd doesn't always facing the 3rd team defense. My understanding is they alternate. Even DT like or not he's good impression so far and that is not bad thing for the team.

[DAYNETRAYNE]

From what I have heard just because he may be running with 3rd doesn't always facing the 3rd team defense. My understanding is they alternate. Even DT like or not he's good impression so far and that is not bad thing for the team.

im not saying its a bad thing. I thought it was 1st team O vs 2nd team D, 2nd team O vs 1st team D, and the 3rds go against each other. But what ever. I'm glad he's doing good. Everybody's reports just seem different. I was watching highlights on cbs4denver.com and it was clearly to see that TBell bobbled a screen pass and it was picked off by Al wilson. Someone reported from the mane that it was Dayne. Its like who do u believe. :confused:

[dare2bme]

isnt he running with the third team? I would look like MA too. Preseason games will tell were he stands. :coffee:


You aren't a Bronco fan at all are you? Just a Ron Dayne fan?

Now that we have that straight, may the best man win!

Personally, preseason will tell us more than TC and Shanahan doesn't like to throw rookies in the game (remember CP), but Dayne hasn't impressed any of the observers; so, maybe it is time for you to accept that he may not be anything more than he was in NY.

The Broncos will do what is best for the team. Dayne doesn't look like IT right now regardless of which "team" he is on for the moment. Or, maybe I missed the day when Shanahan was praising RD?
:confused:

And I'm not a Dayne hater! I support whatever is best for the team and I have supported Dayne in past threads. I'm just saying he doesn't look to be living up to the potential I and others thought he had.

[PsychoChicken]

Just so you guys know:

Cutler doesn't throw well to his left because he doesn't quite square up to the receiver before throwing the ball. So when he throws to his left, he's throwing across his body. This habit is a direct result of not having much pass protection at Vandy. It's obviously a kink in his game that can be fixed.

[dare2bme]

Just so you guys know:

Cutler doesn't throw well to his left because he doesn't quite square up to the receiver before throwing the ball. So when he throws to his left, he's throwing across his body. This habit is a direct result of not having much pass protection at Vandy. It's obviously a kink in his game that can be fixed.


Does someone out there know if this is a difficult problem to overcome? I know he didn't have any time in college and was throwing off his back foot alot. He doesn't seem to be throwing off his back foot now, but he needs to square his shoulders?? to the receiver?

This is a little bit deeper into the mechanics of the throw than I know, so I would appreciate some info.

Thanks... :beer:

[broncos_mtnman]

Just so you guys know:

Cutler doesn't throw well to his left because he doesn't quite square up to the receiver before throwing the ball. So when he throws to his left, he's throwing across his body. This habit is a direct result of not having much pass protection at Vandy. It's obviously a kink in his game that can be fixed.

Good post!!

Makes complete sense.

CP to ya!!

:beer:

[TXBRONC]

im not saying its a bad thing. I thought it was 1st team O vs 2nd team D, 2nd team O vs 1st team D, and the 3rds go against each other. But what ever. I'm glad he's doing good. Everybody's reports just seem different. I was watching highlights on cbs4denver.com and it was clearly to see that TBell bobbled a screen pass and it was picked off by Al wilson. Someone reported from the mane that it was Dayne. Its like who do u believe. :confused:

I didn't see the play but on the home page they report it was T. Bell that blew it. I think for the most part the reports have been consistant. It was a mistake by one of our fellow fans but doubt it was done intentionally.

[Kaylore]

I didn't see the play but on the home page they report it was T. Bell that blew it. I think for the most part the reports have been consistant. It was a mistake by one of our fellow fans but doubt it was done intentionally.
You know what, i thought it was Tatum originally and one of the guys I report with insisted it was Dayne and so I reported is as such. And yes, we make mistakes and will likely make more.

[broncos_mtnman]

How come there was no mention that one of Jake's INTs was at the goal line (by Foxy) and he took it the other way??

Isn't like the play against the Panthers in 2004? You know, when he threw 20 INTs.

Add that to the off-target throws and he's looking more like Jake of old to me.

[dogfish]

if you have a minute, could you answer a few questions for me? it would be much appreciated. . . . i registered at the mane, but they haven't sent me the info i need to activate my account so i can post there. . . . :ugh:


what do you think of cutler running play-action? does he sell the play fakes effectively? and does he lose accuracy throwing on the run?

can you tell me a little more about corey jackson's skill set? i know the kid has good size-- does he have the quick first step to be a legitimate speed rusher, or does he rely on power? does he have a decent array of moves? i'm hoping that he or dumervil will emerge, since we already know what guys like ekuban can do. . . . . :heh: i am holding out some hope for lang, though-- i thought he was the best pass rusher of the bunch when they were all in cleveland. . . .

also-- have you noticed who's lining up with the first squad in the goal line defense? i'm curious about that because i'd like to see webster or predator possibly replace gold to give us a little more size, though realistically i doubt it'll happen. . . . .

[tnedator]

You know what, i thought it was Tatum originally and one of the guys I report with insisted it was Dayne and so I reported is as such. And yes, we make mistakes and will likely make more.

Sorry, we have some guys with man-crushes on certain players, so anything that isn't 100% complimentary of their sweethearts pisses them off.

We have other guys that have unexplained rage towards certain players, so anything that isn't 100% negative of their less-than-favorite player pisses them off.

I for one am greatful for the reporting that you, SoCal and the others are doing.

[dogfish]

It is so annoying to have to avoid half the posts just to avoid the Jake bashing again and again. I know that MTN_boy will never let it go, but will he ever realize just how silly he sounds when he bashes Jake and praises Cutler in every post. Jake is a far better QB right now and makes far fewer mistakes and has much more real experience. Jake is the best for the team and MTN_boy needs to focus on other players and situations. At least try to let it go.



you do realize that you have an ignore function, right? makes it so much easier to avoid those posts you don't want to read. . . . . . .

[vandyman53]

Just so you guys know:

Cutler doesn't throw well to his left because he doesn't quite square up to the receiver before throwing the ball. So when he throws to his left, he's throwing across his body. This habit is a direct result of not having much pass protection at Vandy. It's obviously a kink in his game that can be fixed.

If Cutler has trouble throwing to the left it is new to me. He can put the ball anywhere. He might have made a few not so good passes to the left, but believe me he can go either way .

[TXBRONC]

You know what, i thought it was Tatum originally and one of the guys I report with insisted it was Dayne and so I reported is as such. And yes, we make mistakes and will likely make more.

I sure hope you don't think I criticizing you guys. Because I'm glad that you all are doing this for us and I understand mistakes can be made at times.

[Heisman 99']

You know what, i thought it was Tatum originally and one of the guys I report with insisted it was Dayne and so I reported is as such. And yes, we make mistakes and will likely make more.


the dancing in the backfeild and running into blockers right. i get it now, repoerters always make mistakes. :duh:


I'm Done Wiz :D

[topscribe]

Isn't this like the third day in a row that comments have been made from camp about how Jake is "off-target" on several of his throws?

Seems like he hasn't improved in that area at all from last year. Remember the hammering Putzier took on several off-target throws, along with the missed throws to Lelie?

It's no secret (not a bash) that Jake has the tendency to be off-target (over-throwing, throwing behind the receiver, etc....). He's been that way his whole time here.

It appears to continue to be an area of weakness.

Concerning Jay's throws. That weakness to the left is something I remember reading in one of the pre-draft reports on him. He apparently needs to continue working on getting better in that area.

As far as BVP goes, I think we are seeing why he's likely to be 3rd string (or gone) by the time the season starts. He simply hasn't put it together.

I'm excited about what we're hearing about Mike Bell. Could be another one of those Shanny "diamonds" he finds.

The defense sounds like it's ahead of the offense at this stage of camp. I guess that's to be expected this early. The offense has more new players than the D does.
There you go, folks. Take a look at the double standard here. And now we are taken back to last year about how bad Jake was. Yup, I guess 60.7% completion ratio and 90.2 passer rating must be miserable. But then, Jake is wild, but Jay just needs a little work. :rolleyes:

For your information, reports have been coming out of camp about how sharp Jake has been.

-----

[PsychoChicken]

If Cutler has trouble throwing to the left it is new to me. He can put the ball anywhere. He might have made a few not so good passes to the left, but believe me he can go either way .Of course he can, no doubt about that. If he could only throw to half a field, he wouldn't have even made high school JV team.
Does someone out there know if this is a difficult problem to overcome? I know he didn't have any time in college and was throwing off his back foot alot. He doesn't seem to be throwing off his back foot now, but he needs to square his shoulders?? to the receiver?

This is a little bit deeper into the mechanics of the throw than I know, so I would appreciate some info.

Thanks... :beer:Basically, to get the most out of your throw, your left foot (if you're a righty, of course) should be pointed towards the receiver when you set for the throw. That way, you're able to get your momentum directly behind the ball towards the receiver. It's really a very easy thing to fix, and should come naturally as he grows more comfortable with his surroundings.

[broncos4ever]

Actually I was also at both camps today, morning and afternoon.

Tatum actually was playing half with the second team and half with the first team. On many of the goal line drills in the middle of the field he was on first team and he pushed the pile very effectively. (They were in the middle of the field because in the last two days they have tore up the endzone area pretty affectively, so they blocked out some of the 40-40 area to have "red zone" plays and the referee's put their hand up if a touchdown was scored.

Dayne for the most part ran with the first team but did not have a great day today. He seemed a step or two slow because the defense on most plays tagged him most of the time in the backfield and he did not even get to the line of scrimmage in a lot of plays.

My prediction is that Mike Bell will be the third running back. He has a very quick burst coming out of a cut. It seems that he gets to full speed within 3 steps. He is very quick when running.

Tony S. is still having an impressive camp. Catches many different types of passes from different QB's. I saw three plays in a row that they went to Tony S. with different looks and he made all the catches.

Duane Carswell looks really good and is doing a good job on his blocking assignments.

Brandon Marshall actually dropped a pass today. By the most part he has been really consistent in his ability to catch the ball.

Nick Ferguson employed the crowd to Cheer for the defense this afternoon, but very few of us did because the offense is much more fun to cheer for.

The autograph line has new rules... You have to stay in the autograph line and not go to the practice. You cannot save spots for anyone. If you leave the auto graph line you lose your place in line. My 10 year old son chose the autograph line today and I chose the practice. George Foster and John Lynch signed today.

Here are some other tidbits, in the morning you stand in a line to get to the field and you could line up all the way out to the store. In the afternoon one just crowds as close to the spot where they open the ropes for the fan. Also if you are first in line, you will probably won't get a real good view from the hill bacause you are ushered all the way up front and moved along by the Customer Service people that they have there. It is better to be in the middle so you can get as close to the VIP section as possible. (The VIP section is on the 50 yard line, consisting of one 45 yard line to the other with the section roped off.)
In fact the worst job of training camp would be the Customer Service Person that has to continually tell people to move if they do not have a VIP sticker.

Some of the best close up photgraphs can be taken when the Broncos are doing exercises. They are not action shots but many, individual standing shots and then other pictures of training camp in general.

Second year we have had free Coldstone icecream in the morning sessisions.

[JRWIZ]

There you go, folks. Take a look at the double standard here. And now we are taken back to last year about how bad Jake was. Yup, I guess 60.7% completion ratio and 90.2 passer rating must be miserable. But then, Jake is wild, but Jay just needs a little work. :rolleyes:

For your information, reports have been coming out of camp about how sharp Jake has been.

-----


Good post agains keep them honest

OK lets again not confuse the facts here, some folks just might believe that load that is constant from the bashers.

[vandyman53]

You're right about the spirals too.

Have you seen any of the camp video on Cutler?

He throws a beautiful spiral.


Sometimes on his quick slants, etc one can't hardly see the ball to know if it has spiraled or not!!!!

[vicious2500]

You know what, i thought it was Tatum originally and one of the guys I report with insisted it was Dayne and so I reported is as such. And yes, we make mistakes and will likely make more.

Its okay Kaylore your guys reports have been awesome and unbiased. We're thankful for the information and updates and know you guys don't have to do them, but you guys do them for the love of the team and to give us (the fans) that aren't able to make it to training camp and see these things for ourselves.

You guys will make mistakes and its likely because we're only humans and we're not perfect so keep kicking our these good reports and keeping us posted on our team. Go Broncos!!!

[LDB]

Here is some stuff from the afternoon report....a few of the older guys got the afternoon off.

QB's

Well they all kind of sucked today. The coverage was very good and the pass rush was a problem so it wasn't always their fault. Couple that with a really nasty wind today and you ca see why this was a problem. I think all three QB's got picked off at least once. BVP had one, cutler had two (one was dropped) and Plummer had one.

Plummer: He's been decent but not great - especially of late. I still have yet to see him hook up with someone deep. He threw a deep pass today that was twenty yards too deep and to the right and it was against the wind so that can't even be used as an excuse. It's starting to make me upset.

Cutler: I actually met and got to talk with his Dad today. He's smart and really understands football. The Florida game that was essentially decided with a bogus call sticks in his craw. Great guy.

Anyway Cutler had the least trouble getting his passes off. His velocity really helps keep the wind from altering the course of the ball. He looked like he made some more mental errors. Someone was on the wrong page because he threw to Kircus who was running a post and Cutler seemed to think he was on a go and the ball hit Roc Alexander in the chest. Another one Chad Mustard didn't break on the ball and it went through his hands and Kevin Harrison almost caught it. In Move-the-Ball his drive was the one that got furthest down field before the D shut it down.

BVP: I actually think he's playing very solid for him. He had some decent passes and the ball didn't get away from him as much as i thought it would. On a zero-blitz he just threw the ball up for grabs and Foxworth just out jumped Terrell for it and got the int. He's not too bad at rolling out. All our QB's have shown at least some proficiency on running the boot and throwing.

RB's

Dayne was bad. Mike Bell is still running with the second team with Dayne and Tatum spliting reps on the first team. Tatum is starting to pull away as the better back. SoCal and I think Shanahan is trying to force the issue of Dayne being a good back, because Mike Bell out-classes him in every aspect and he still is behind him. If the preseason shows the same things and Dayne is still nubmer one, I'm going to be pissed.

Dayne isn't getting any better, and I don't think he's going to. He's a soft runner, has no burst, and if his line doesn't hand him huge holes on a silver plate, he's stopped in his tracks. He doesn't even have any shifty moves. That said he's a decent back. He'll generally cover up well and does take the holes when they're there and he knows the system. However, as I said, he's not scaring anybody.

Tatum Bell is having better vision so he's seeing the cutback lanes and taking them. He has more burst, more elusiveness and he's a threat to take it to the house every time. Tatum right now is actually better in short yardage situations than Dayne because he can go over guys and in moving the pile, he has just as much push as Dayne.

Mike Bell is fast, cuts on a dime, falls forward, can break a long run, runs downhill, has superior vision, is great in pass protection and is 6'00" and weighs 220.

Safeties: Hamza Abdullah is the real deal. He's still playing solid and had a would-be int except it hit the ground. Two zebras ruled it an incomplete pass but Mediator thinks he was robbed (I think it hit the ground).

Cox is really good in coverage. His run supposrt is getting better but he needs to work on getting off his blocks otherwise it could be hard to not only use him in certain situations.

Wideouts

Kircus and Marshall are still the same. They really impress. Both of them were used on special teams as return men along with Mike Bell. They all did really well. There were fewer mental errors today except for that int that Cutler was trying to hit Kircus on. One of them messed up. After practice Shanahan laid into the wideouts saying they weren't settling into their positions and it was hurting the QB's. Funny things like that happen when you're missing Javon and Rod Smith.

Devoe had a hard time today fighting through that injury. He had some key drops and left the field throwing his gloves on the ground. He wants to make the team but is hurt and knows that other guys are stepping up while he's hurting.

Scheffler: Not as many big grabs but clearly played well today. Our D does a good job of covering the tight ends. Run blocking continues to improve.

OFFENSIVE LINE

He was doing pretty well earlier this week but Chris Kuper struggled alot. He allowed Michael Myers to collapse the pocket on one occasion and he was also abused by Khaleed Vaughn. Cooper gave up a sack and Myers got confused by a twist, but other than that I thought the OL was okay. I saw Foster get confused as to his assignment only once on a stunt.

DEFENSIVE LINE

Khaleed Vaughn (#95) did a nice job today. He pursued down the line well when the run went away from him and did a good job rushing the passer against some of the younger OL. By some kind of mixup a back ended up blocking Corey Jackson and he easily got past him to the QB.

LINEBACKERS

Unfortuneatly #57 T.J. Hollowell suffered a leg/calf/ankle type injury and was escorted from the field. Don't know how bad it was but Greek was with him there on the sideline doing his thing for awhile. Backup linebacker Ray Wells had a nice afternoon. He almost had a pick and broke up a pass. Burnsie blew up two runs nicely.

[watchthemiddle]

Just so you guys know:

Cutler doesn't throw well to his left because he doesn't quite square up to the receiver before throwing the ball. So when he throws to his left, he's throwing across his body. This habit is a direct result of not having much pass protection at Vandy. It's obviously a kink in his game that can be fixed.


That is simple simple mechanics. People want to harp on Jake for having some bad habits that he got playing on a bad team in AZ...well it looks like Cutler has a few bad habits of his own. Jake has seemed to grown out of his since coming to a better team, and I would expect the same out of CUtler with better coaching will do the same over time.

Its not going to happen over night as we have seen.

See you later Cutler... :wave:

[JRWIZ]

That is simple simple mechanics. People want to harp on Jake for having some bad habits that he got playing on a bad team in AZ...well it looks like Cutler has a few bad habits of his own. Jake has seemed to grown out of his since coming to a better team, and I would expect the same out of Cutler with better coaching will do the same over time.

Its not going to happen over night as we have seen.

See you later Cutler... :wave:

Sounds like double standard time coming up.

You better don your asbestos suit after this one.

[Kaylore]

Sorry, we have some guys with man-crushes on certain players, so anything that isn't 100% complimentary of their sweethearts pisses them off.

We have other guys that have unexplained rage towards certain players, so anything that isn't 100% negative of their less-than-favorite player pisses them off.

I for one am greatful for the reporting that you, SoCal and the others are doing.
You don't need to appologize. I've been hearing it on the Mane from some guys. It's amazing how many Dayne homers we have for a guy that's only played one full game and been with the team just one season. I try to be objective. Sometimes it isn't fun like when Jake has a bad practice (I'm a Jake homer.) Between what we and everyone else reports, I figure you can iron out the problems and get a pretty good picture on what's going on.

[JRWIZ]

You don't need to appologize. I've been hearing it on the Mane from some guys. It's amazing how many Dayne homers we have for a guy that's only played one full game and been with the team just one season. I try to be objective. Sometimes it isn't fun like when Jake has a bad practice (I'm a Jake homer.) Between what we and everyone else reports, I figure you can iron out the problems and get a pretty good picture on what's going on.

Thanks for the reports I'll have to owe Y'all points til I get some.

[topscribe]

You don't need to appologize. I've been hearing it on the Mane from some guys. It's amazing how many Dayne homers we have for a guy that's only played one full game and been with the team just one season. I try to be objective. Sometimes it isn't fun like when Jake has a bad practice (I'm a Jake homer.) Between what we and everyone else reports, I figure you can iron out the problems and get a pretty good picture on what's going on.
For a "Jake homer," you are really telling it like it is, and I appreciate that.



*Even though it can tend to help Mtnman give me grief* :laugh:


-----

[broncos_mtnman]

For a "Jake homer," you are really telling it like it is, and I appreciate that.

*Even though it can tend to help Mtnman give me grief* :laugh:


-----

Who, me? :halo:

[j3phr3y]

There you go, folks. Take a look at the double standard here. And now we are taken back to last year about how bad Jake was. Yup, I guess 60.7% completion ratio and 90.2 passer rating must be miserable. But then, Jake is wild, but Jay just needs a little work. :rolleyes:

For your information, reports have been coming out of camp about how sharp Jake has been.

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Well it’s a double standard to be sure. However, in this type of comparison where he is analyzing each one independently, I believe a double stand is perfectly acceptable. Even if they threw the exact same passes, I could understand the reasoning for giving a better rating to a rookie than to an established veteran.

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Well it’s a double standard to be sure. However, in this type of comparison where he is analyzing each one independently, I believe a double stand is perfectly acceptable. Even if they threw the exact same passes, I could understand the reasoning for giving a better rating to a rookie than to an established veteran.
I understand your reasoning, but we're talking about passing accuracy, not reading defenses. If Cutler doesn't have accuracy by now, it is dubious he ever will. Not saying he doesn't . . . quite the contrary. But I believe that when it come to pure accuracy, it is not unfair to expect the same excellence from a QB who has been through about seven years of football on two different levels as from one who has been on a pro level for a while. Now, as I implied, in reading defenses, that's a different story.

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[ECBronco]

First of all, Bill Williamson is a sub-par reporter. He providers the in-depth analysis of a 3 year old. Just because you are a professional, it doesn't mean that you are good at your profession. Shefter, while a bit of wuss, was 10 times a better reporter/writer than Williamson.

The reports on the Mane are very in-depth and provide great analysis on individual players. And really that's all we want to hear about at this point into TC. (We can evaluate how the team performs once the preseason games begin.) Show me the article that Williamson puts out where he breaks down the performance of dozens of Broncos players on the same day. I won't hold my breath. And don't give me some lame excuse about why he couldn't do that each day at camp.

Personally I think the guys over at the Mane (Kaylore, SoCal) have been very fair in their reports. They have not played favorites to anyone. If someone has a bad day, they let you know. Oh, and reaming them for making a mistake here or there is just a joke.

The truth is that some people here have their "pet" players and they don't WANT to hear about a bad day from Dayne, Cutler, Jake, etc. It doesn't matter what source is providing the analysis....they just want to hear the positive things about their pets.

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First of all, Bill Williamson is a sub-par reporter. He providers the in-depth analysis of a 3 year old. Just because you are a professional, it doesn't mean that you are good at your profession. Shefter, while a bit of wuss, was 10 times a better reporter/writer than Williamson.

The reports on the Mane are very in-depth and provide great analysis on individual players. And really that's all we want to hear about at this point into TC. (We can evaluate how the team performs once the preseason games begin.) Show me the article that Williamson puts out where he breaks down the performance of dozens of Broncos players on the same day. I won't hold my breath. And don't give me some lame excuse about why he couldn't do that each day at camp.

Personally I think the guys over at the Mane (Kaylore, SoCal) have been very fair in their reports. They have not played favorites to anyone. If someone has a bad day, they let you know. Oh, and reaming them for making a mistake here or there is just a joke.

The truth is that some people here have their "pet" players and they don't WANT to hear about a bad day from Dayne, Cutler, Jake, etc. It doesn't matter what source is providing the analysis....they just want to hear the positive things about their pets.
Ummm . . . to whom are you responding? :confused:

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[ECBronco]

Ummm . . . to whom are you responding? :confused:

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Haha. Sorry, no one specifically. I guess the Williamson comments were directed more towards MindField. I don't think we see eye-to-eye on Williamson and the reports coming from OM.

I think it's pretty obvious who the people are that are a fan only of specific players and only focus on the positives of their players.

[j3phr3y]

I understand your reasoning, but we're talking about passing accuracy, not reading defenses. If Cutler doesn't have accuracy by now, it is dubious he ever will. Not saying he doesn't . . . quite the contrary. But I believe that when it come to pure accuracy, it is not unfair to expect the same excellence from a QB who has been through about seven years of football on two different levels as from one who has been on a pro level for a while. Now, as I implied, in reading defenses, that's a different story.

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I agree it is not unfair to expect the same quality regarding accuracy. It is my opinion that it is also not unfair to grade on a curve here as well. It can be argued that in a game type environment (even practice) no skill set is completely independent from other skill sets. I think holding both QBs to the same standard or separate standards are acceptable since they are not being directly compared to each other but rather on a good/bad scale.

[Kaylore]

I agree it is not unfair to expect the same quality regarding accuracy. It is my opinion that it is also not unfair to grade on a curve here as well. It can be argued that in a game type environment (even practice) no skill set is completely independent from other skill sets. I think holding both QBs to the same standard or separate standards are acceptable since they are not being directly compared to each other but rather on a good/bad scale.
That's an excellent point. Some of these guys will "turn it on" when the lights turn on. Others will completely disappear. It'll take some games, real and preseason, to truly gauge players' abilities.

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That's an excellent point. Some of these guys will "turn it on" when the lights turn on. Others will completely disappear. It'll take some games, real and preseason, to truly gauge players' abilities.
Well, we know Jake can "turn it on." From his guts and grit at Vandy, it appears Jay can, too.

Nonetheless, I guess I just have a hard time with the Jake/Jay comparisons. Of course, they are going to take place. But I believe it's a given Jay has more natural, raw talent than Jake. But Jay is on the inception of his learning curve as a pro. The guy is raw. Jake is not. So who starts?

Already there are those who have made a big deal of Jake's bad days. Yet I have seen your reports where just about everyone has "bad" days in camp. It's a biorythmic process . . . up one day, down the next.

If I'm making any sense, all I am saying is, let's just observe at this point, and make our judgments a little later into the season.

Oh well . . . trying hard not to ramble, but it's not working too well. :goofy:

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[GIVEME6]

I'm starting to get a little.....I wouldn't say p!ssed, but....confused. How is it that Mike Bell can be doing so good, yet he's not getting reps with the first team when by all accounts, is superior to Dayne in seemingly every way so far? :confused:

[tnedator]

I'm starting to get a little.....I wouldn't say p!ssed, but....confused. How is it that Mike Bell can be doing so good, yet he's not getting reps with the first team when by all accounts, is superior to Dayne in seemingly every way so far? :confused:

Because there is a process that NFL teams go through. One good week of practice is not going to vault him into number one on the depth chart.

IF he continues to do good in practice...

IF he shows the same prodcution in the pre-season games...

Then, maybe he will be bumped up the depther charte. The other factor is that sometimes coaches don't want to trust a rookie to carry the load. This is probably because they think the rookie has a better chance of making mental mistakes at the wrong time.

Hopefully, if Bell continues to shine in practice and does well in the games, then he moves up and starts working with the first team.