WHo Has Faith in Shanny this Draft? (Merged)

[fraguela09]

Shanny's history has been up and down since he's been with the Broncos.. A week ago I posted his history of 1st rounders... I think last year's draft was his BEST ever!!! So, going into this draft... how much confidence do you have in coach/gm shanny? on a scale from 1-10, one being no faith and ten being he'll get all-pro talent... what do you think?

I give shanny this: although he's been up & down in the past... with both hits and misses... I will give credit where credit is due. The last two drafts shanny has had lots of success. Sure, he was killed for taking 3 DBs in a row... for taking a chance on M.Clarrett... With all that said, let's look at the results, shall we:

Two years ago Shanny got perhaps the steal of the draft in the Darrent Williams selections. MOst re-draft experts following last year's season said that if the draft was redone, given the production of rookies, then Darrent was a top ten first rounder!!! Not too shabby with the 56th pick huh!

Last year... Shanny's best ever! Despite being one game from Super Bowl, Shanny worms his way up the draft and takes a "franchise" QB. Gets what looks to be like a very capable TE. THEN... they get a bonafide #2 WR in Marshall and possible elite pass rushing specialist (who led team in sacks as rookie) in Elvis... both in the FOURTH ROUND. Already redraft experts had elvis a 1st round pick! Not to mention undrafted Bell (who set records as URFA) and Pears, who even Madden wondered how he wasn't drafted by somebody. Add to that mix: Kuper, Eslinger, Hixon. Who could possibly be starting RG, C and KR next season and thereafter... Suffice to say Shanny did bang-up job.

Do I have faith? Well, I would say YES... emphatically. I give it a solid 8!

If he continues his trend, then whichever direction he goes with this draft, we should expect 3 contributing players, at least, for next year... and one stud! :cheers: :rockon: :confused: :goofy: :D

[Dream]

Shanahan would have to be retarded to miss with the talent in this draft and having four first-day selections within the first 85 selections. Seriously. If he messes this up; he can no longer draft.

[BF_forever]

I have faith. :salute:

[D.J.55]

probley bout a 6

[jhns]

I have complete faith in Shanny. Not only in the draft but in FA where he always has worked his magic. He also has had 2 consecutive really good drafts.

[fraguela09]

I agree... if there was a musical opera based on Shanny's tenure as a Bronco leader than we are entering the crescendo of act two. Act one was obviously the back-2-back, and, belly-2-belly... grabbing Super Bowl dominance back for the AFC... Now, here's the height of ACT Two. Everything post-Elway was building toward now... between Free Agency and Draft, I agree Shanny will make biggest splash yet... Denver will have HUGE off season... We already see it with the coaching staff. Denver is a few pieces away from being Super Bowl ready, and with next year's schedule (by the way, I cannot wait to play Bills while Chargers play PAts, which should be a slugfest based on trash talking after Sunday's game)... Denver is gearing up for a run at Super Bowl 42! Heaven forbid if Courtney Brown and Lepsis return to form, it might not be fair next year!

[MindField]

Shanny's history has been up and down since he's been with the Broncos.. A week ago I posted his history of 1st rounders... I think last year's draft was his BEST ever!!! So, going into this draft... how much confidence do you have in coach/gm shanny? on a scale from 1-10, one being no faith and ten being he'll get all-pro talent... what do you think?

I give shanny this: although he's been up & down in the past... with both hits and misses... I will give credit where credit is due. The last two drafts shanny has had lots of success. Sure, he was killed for taking 3 DBs in a row... for taking a chance on M.Clarrett... With all that said, let's look at the results, shall we:

Two years ago Shanny got perhaps the steal of the draft in the Darrent Williams selections. MOst re-draft experts following last year's season said that if the draft was redone, given the production of rookies, then Darrent was a top ten first rounder!!! Not too shabby with the 56th pick huh!

Last year... Shanny's best ever! Despite being one game from Super Bowl, Shanny worms his way up the draft and takes a "franchise" QB. Gets what looks to be like a very capable TE. THEN... they get a bonafide #2 WR in Marshall and possible elite pass rushing specialist (who led team in sacks as rookie) in Elvis... both in the FOURTH ROUND. Already redraft experts had elvis a 1st round pick! Not to mention undrafted Bell (who set records as URFA) and Pears, who even Madden wondered how he wasn't drafted by somebody. Add to that mix: Kuper, Eslinger, Hixon. Who could possibly be starting RG, C and KR next season and thereafter... Suffice to say Shanny did bang-up job.

Do I have faith? Well, I would say YES... emphatically. I give it a solid 8!

If he continues his trend, then whichever direction he goes with this draft, we should expect 3 contributing players, at least, for next year... and one stud! :cheers: :rockon: :confused: :goofy: :D

Well, you better have faith in him, because he will be making the selections...

[Gulbrand]

Actually, I think the changes in responsibility that Bowlin made two years ago (nearly) that brought Ted Sundquist to the forefront as GM added to the success of the last two drafts. I think Sundquist has the ability and the authority to provide a serious reality check to the drafting discussions, and probably had some role in perpetrating the trades that eventually landed Cutler. I think he has helped Shanahan and the rest of the coaches to develop and execute a specific "plan" for drafting and for FA moves that help to improve the team in reasonable and effective ways.

The draft two years ago was stunning, and it was a winning plan. Last year, I think was even more stunning and resulted in cementing the offensive core of the team for several years hence. I suspect that the same will be true this year as well; a well conceived plan with understood flexibility to maneuver as needed to get the talent desired.

To answer the question, I'd have to say that it is not just Shanahan that I would have faith in, but Sundquist, too.

[pipes]

I surely do!

[MHS]

i have complete faith in him... i means dj williams is a stud... even if we should have taken steven jackson... darrents williams rest his sould was a star ....Jay cutler seems on his way to being a star... shanny just has issues later on in the draft... for sure 2nd rounders... watts ... peirce

[22cannon]

Every team had a good draft last year. It would be hard to screw that one up.

No, I don't think drafting is one of Shanahan's best abilities.

[TXBRONC]

Shanahan would have to be retarded to miss with the talent in this draft and having four first-day selections within the first 85 selections. Seriously. If he messes this up; he can no longer draft.

What gives me hope is the fact that Shanahan's last two drafts have been solid. Also what gives a little more confidence is that the draft that brought us D. Williams, Foxworth, and Paymah wasn't considered a strong draft class yet it looks like Shanahan and company did very well. So maybe Shanahan and his staff have finally figured out better way to evaluate talent.

[stnzed]

?


I can't say I do!

I have to say it's more his philosophy in the draft that I have a problem with. He's put to much stock in system players. Drafting players that not many other teams (If any) wanted too damn high. And completely ignoring needs in the most glaring area for years.

I've seen too many Travis McGriffs to get used to the way he drafts.

The position the Broncos find themselves in now is a direct result of Shanahan's drafts.

Shanahan should be commended for his most recent drafts (parts of them anyway). But he'll only have my faith when/if he gets the Broncos out of this mess.

Imo, he's got a lot of work to do.

Terry Pierce, Paul Toviessi, Chris Cole, Jeremy LaSueur, .....Dorsett Davis!

As ya'll know the list goes on and on!

[4th Amigo]

I've got faith......I've always got faith. Why would any good Bronco fan say "I think Shanny will f**k up this draft"

Nah, his last couple of years, he has been doing well in the draft; I'm excited, I just hope he can get all the stud rookie starters that he will get to gel quickly and learn to play together.

If he can do that, then we will have a very good year next year....

[lancane]

How about the fact the same scouts that pointed us to Marshall, Cutler, D-Will, Foxworth and so one are now in charge of scouting...I think it means we might actually improve from the last two even.

[stnzed]

I guess I'm just not a good Broncos fan!

How will I ever pick up the pieces? :D

[Cugel]

What gives me hope is the fact that Shanahan's last two drafts have been solid. Also what gives a little more confidence is that the draft that brought us D. Williams, Foxworth, and Paymah wasn't considered a strong draft class yet it looks like Shanahan and company did very well. So maybe Shanahan and his staff have finally figured out better way to evaluate talent.
Basically agree. The last 2 drafts haven't been bad, but he still didn't get a penetrating DT.

To do that he might need to move up into the top 10. For example, Haloti Ngata went at #12 last year. That's about where you might have to draft to get an elite DT, unless you're very lucky.

I don't know that he will do that, I doubt it. My guess is that the DL will have to get by with smoke and mirrors for another year, but I sure hope I'm wrong!

[hardcorebronco]

?


I can't say I do!

I have to say it's more his philosophy in the draft that I have a problem with. He's put to much stock in system players. Drafting players that not many other teams (If any) wanted too damn high. And completely ignoring needs in the most glaring area for years.

I've seen too many Travis McGriffs to get used to the way he drafts.

The position the Broncos find themselves in now is a direct result of Shanahan's drafts.

Shanahan should be commended for his most recent drafts (parts of them anyway). But he'll only have my faith when/if he gets the Broncos out of this mess.

Imo, he's got a lot of work to do.

Terry Pierce, Paul Toviessi, Chris Cole, Jeremy LaSueur, .....Dorsett Davis!

As ya'll know the list goes on and on!

Heavens forbid the guy make mistskes!!! Get over it! Shanahan had to teach himself to draft, he wasnt responsible for that in San Fran or Oakland. (I think there is more to the draft than any of us who have never experienced it before realize.) He carried a major load as to what he wanted when it came to draft day and he had to learn. Some by success, some by hard lessons. Cut the guy some slack, he is learning and as a previous poster mention, Sundquist is helping significantly to add some reason and experience in deals, and options. No matter what, he is becoming a master, look beyond the draft. He has pulled in major players in the FA practically every offseason! he has also organized and pulled off sick and really unfair trades down on other teams. This guy is a offensive guru, but he had a young, and inexperienced squad for a majority of the season, and had to deal with a qb that acted like he wanted benched. Overall, his offensive production has been phenominal year in and year out. And yet the guy is criticized for not being a defensive mastermind like Bill Bellicheck. The whole "look at the situation he has created on the d-line" arguement cant hold any water. Seriously, the guy has had busts there, as everyone has, but he has also had some serious talent. Berry, Hayward, Pryce. These are guys who left us for money or were offered better deals. That cant be blamed on shannahan. There is a cap limit and sometimes you just cant afford to resign a player for what you expect to recieve in return. By the way, for as much criticism as the Browncos get, does anyone remember what we gave up for all those players? One average runningback. The rest were signed or packaged in the trade. Remember our lead sacker and pass rusher was hurt the whole season. I guess that was shanahan's fault to for not knowing that would happen. Kudos, goes to shanahan for trying to address the situation already. Atleast he knows he cant master defense and was willing to pay for someone to come in that does. I think too many people are expecting perfection here. Cutler/Plummer isnt Elway. Mike/Tatum arent Terrell Davis. Lynch isnt a Atwater. Carlile is not a Zimmerman. Pears/Foster arent a Lepsis. And Eukabon/Dumerville arent even a Pryce!!! Go figure, we arent perfect, and we never will be. Even the #1 seed in the AFC, aka the most complete team in the NFL, was beat in the divisional round of the playoffs. Ladies and Gentlemen, i have a news flash. There has never been and will never be a completely perfect all-star regular season team. It is really unrealistic to expect every hole/gap/weakness to be addressed and filled with a all-star. What i would really like to see is some slack cut out for our coaches and players. We shouldnt put unrealistic measures on these guys, i am hoping that we get a franchise back, a solid pass rusher, and a cover safety that isnt soft... and all the rest. but please? "Shanahan drafted a so and so 5 years ago and therefore isnt qualified to be a good drafting expert" is a very dumb statement. I would hate to see mile high city put mile high expectations on this organization. Dream? sure. Work, ofcourse! Try? always! But let's reserve some of this criticism until it becomes apparent that criticism is due. That time of criticism has not arrived for shanahan or his young offense, and fighting defense either. Criticism was due for Coyer, and possibly for other players that the organization feels are weak links. But please! Let's hope for the future and build from the past. Go Broncos. :salute:

[pipes]

Heavens forbid the guy make mistskes!!! Get over it! Shanahan had to teach himself to draft, he wasnt responsible for that in San Fran or Oakland. (I think there is more to the draft than any of us who have never experienced it before realize.) He carried a major load as to what he wanted when it came to draft day and he had to learn. Some by success, some by hard lessons. Cut the guy some slack, he is learning and as a previous poster mention, Sundquist is helping significantly to add some reason and experience in deals, and options. No matter what, he is becoming a master, look beyond the draft. He has pulled in major players in the FA practically every offseason! he has also organized and pulled off sick and really unfair trades down on other teams. This guy is a offensive guru, but he had a young, and inexperienced squad for a majority of the season, and had to deal with a qb that acted like he wanted benched. Overall, his offensive production has been phenominal year in and year out. And yet the guy is criticized for not being a defensive mastermind like Bill Bellicheck. The whole "look at the situation he has created on the d-line" arguement cant hold any water. Seriously, the guy has had busts there, as everyone has, but he has also had some serious talent. Berry, Hayward, Pryce. These are guys who left us for money or were offered better deals. That cant be blamed on shannahan. There is a cap limit and sometimes you just cant afford to resign a player for what you expect to recieve in return. By the way, for as much criticism as the Browncos get, does anyone remember what we gave up for all those players? One average runningback. The rest were signed or packaged in the trade. Remember our lead sacker and pass rusher was hurt the whole season. I guess that was shanahan's fault to for not knowing that would happen. Kudos, goes to shanahan for trying to address the situation already. Atleast he knows he cant master defense and was willing to pay for someone to come in that does. I think too many people are expecting perfection here. Cutler/Plummer isnt Elway. Mike/Tatum arent Terrell Davis. Lynch isnt a Atwater. Carlile is not a Zimmerman. Pears/Foster arent a Lepsis. And Eukabon/Dumerville arent even a Pryce!!! Go figure, we arent perfect, and we never will be. Even the #1 seed in the AFC, aka the most complete team in the NFL, was beat in the divisional round of the playoffs. Ladies and Gentlemen, i have a news flash. There has never been and will never be a completely perfect all-star regular season team. It is really unrealistic to expect every hole/gap/weakness to be addressed and filled with a all-star. What i would really like to see is some slack cut out for our coaches and players. We shouldnt put unrealistic measures on these guys, i am hoping that we get a franchise back, a solid pass rusher, and a cover safety that isnt soft... and all the rest. but please? "Shanahan drafted a so and so 5 years ago and therefore isnt qualified to be a good drafting expert" is a very dumb statement. I would hate to see mile high city put mile high expectations on this organization. Dream? sure. Work, ofcourse! Try? always! But let's reserve some of this criticism until it becomes apparent that criticism is due. That time of criticism has not arrived for shanahan or his young offense, and fighting defense either. Criticism was due for Coyer, and possibly for other players that the organization feels are weak links. But please! Let's hope for the future and build from the past. Go Broncos. :salute:

:eek:
I can't see...eyes hurt...going blind...
:eek:

[Colorado69]

"Every team had a good draft last year." This statement is about as silly a comment as I've seen on this board. Hopefully, you mean that every team still has hope and wishes that their draft picks work out soon. The Broncos have had several impact players from last two years drafts. That is to be complimented, as not all teams have made very many good picks.

[TXBRONC]

Basically agree. The last 2 drafts haven't been bad, but he still didn't get a penetrating DT.

To do that he might need to move up into the top 10. For example, Haloti Ngata went at #12 last year. That's about where you might have to draft to get an elite DT, unless you're very lucky.

I don't know that he will do that, I doubt it. My guess is that the DL will have to get by with smoke and mirrors for another year, but I sure hope I'm wrong!

I hope you're wrong too. I don't know if its an indicator or not but with the changes on the defensive side of the ball we actually might go for a DL on the day of the draft. It may not be in the first round but hopefully it will at least be in the second round.

I don't know if we have enough to get all the way into the top ten without selling off the farm. I don't a lot about pick values but seems like it would quite a bit to move from the 21st spot to 10th or higher.

[LordPenguin]

I have complete faith in him. The Broncos have good young players because of him

[stnzed]

Heavens forbid the guy make mistskes!!! Get over it! Shanahan had to teach himself to draft, he wasnt responsible for that in San Fran or Oakland. (I think there is more to the draft than any of us who have never experienced it before realize.) He carried a major load as to what he wanted when it came to draft day and he had to learn. Some by success, some by hard lessons. Cut the guy some slack, he is learning and as a previous poster mention, Sundquist is helping significantly to add some reason and experience in deals, and options. No matter what, he is becoming a master, look beyond the draft. He has pulled in major players in the FA practically every offseason! he has also organized and pulled off sick and really unfair trades down on other teams. This guy is a offensive guru, but he had a young, and inexperienced squad for a majority of the season, and had to deal with a qb that acted like he wanted benched. Overall, his offensive production has been phenominal year in and year out. And yet the guy is criticized for not being a defensive mastermind like Bill Bellicheck. The whole "look at the situation he has created on the d-line" arguement cant hold any water. Seriously, the guy has had busts there, as everyone has, but he has also had some serious talent. Berry, Hayward, Pryce. These are guys who left us for money or were offered better deals. That cant be blamed on shannahan. There is a cap limit and sometimes you just cant afford to resign a player for what you expect to recieve in return. By the way, for as much criticism as the Browncos get, does anyone remember what we gave up for all those players? One average runningback. The rest were signed or packaged in the trade. Remember our lead sacker and pass rusher was hurt the whole season. I guess that was shanahan's fault to for not knowing that would happen. Kudos, goes to shanahan for trying to address the situation already. Atleast he knows he cant master defense and was willing to pay for someone to come in that does. I think too many people are expecting perfection here. Cutler/Plummer isnt Elway. Mike/Tatum arent Terrell Davis. Lynch isnt a Atwater. Carlile is not a Zimmerman. Pears/Foster arent a Lepsis. And Eukabon/Dumerville arent even a Pryce!!! Go figure, we arent perfect, and we never will be. Even the #1 seed in the AFC, aka the most complete team in the NFL, was beat in the divisional round of the playoffs. Ladies and Gentlemen, i have a news flash. There has never been and will never be a completely perfect all-star regular season team. It is really unrealistic to expect every hole/gap/weakness to be addressed and filled with a all-star. What i would really like to see is some slack cut out for our coaches and players. We shouldnt put unrealistic measures on these guys, i am hoping that we get a franchise back, a solid pass rusher, and a cover safety that isnt soft... and all the rest. but please? "Shanahan drafted a so and so 5 years ago and therefore isnt qualified to be a good drafting expert" is a very dumb statement. I would hate to see mile high city put mile high expectations on this organization. Dream? sure. Work, ofcourse! Try? always! But let's reserve some of this criticism until it becomes apparent that criticism is due. That time of criticism has not arrived for shanahan or his young offense, and fighting defense either. Criticism was due for Coyer, and possibly for other players that the organization feels are weak links. But please! Let's hope for the future and build from the past. Go Broncos. :salute:


You are totally right! And you have completely changed the way I look Shanahan. Not only at Shanahan, but at life! :thumb:


If he had to teach him self to evaluate the talent that is in each and every draft then he should have never had the personel responsibilties in the first place.


Where are these "major players" he's pulled in "in FA practically every off-season"? The Browncos? Leon Lett? Every "Major player" that comes to visit the Broncos leaves town without a contract.

And before you give me a lecture on the realities of the salary cap, keep in mind he's responsible for the cap situation.

The title of the thread asks people for their opinion. Imo, Shanahan sucks at drafting!

He has recently been making bold moves that have really paid off. Moves that, imo, keep his overall grade from being pathetic. But he is FAR from a master!

And the next time someone tells me that "Everyone makes mistakes" should give an example of someone who's made the mistakes Shanahan has and still has his job like Shanahan does.

To my knowledge Shanahan is the only personel guru to ever draft Lennie Friedman 61st overall. (apparently he was learning the ropes :D )

When the league saw fit to award the Broncos a compensatory 3rd round pick in 2004. Shanahan saw fit to blow it on a loser (who, btw, cost the NFL god knows how much money in lawyers fees in a lawsuit that didn't exactly make the league look good).

It's not just that he's made mistakes, it's that he's made so many of them.

Criticism is long overdue.
All your incoherent rambling proved is that your a homer who can't spell!


"Shanahan had to teach himself to draft"......That is a good one! :D

[broncolee]

12 years and only one losing season, I have a significant amount of faith in Shanahan to draft players that will help the team win. I would have even more faith in him if he makes a move to get Marshawn Lynch. We need a premier RB since we are a running team. I would like to see Shanahan give up on the idea that he is going to find the second coming of Terrell Davis outside of the 1st round. He got close with Portis but hasn't had any luck with the other RBs. Sure we have produced 1,000 yard RBs but Davis and Portis were special talents that could produce 1,500+ yards per season. If you want a worhorse that can also be a game breaker, you need to draft a top notch talent in the 1st round. :salute:

[Broncos724]

Heavens forbid the guy make mistskes!!! Get over it! Shanahan had to teach himself to draft, he wasnt responsible for that in San Fran or Oakland. (I think there is more to the draft than any of us who have never experienced it before realize.) He carried a major load as to what he wanted when it came to draft day and he had to learn. Some by success, some by hard lessons. Cut the guy some slack, he is learning and as a previous poster mention, Sundquist is helping significantly to add some reason and experience in deals, and options. No matter what, he is becoming a master, look beyond the draft. He has pulled in major players in the FA practically every offseason! he has also organized and pulled off sick and really unfair trades down on other teams. This guy is a offensive guru, but he had a young, and inexperienced squad for a majority of the season, and had to deal with a qb that acted like he wanted benched. Overall, his offensive production has been phenominal year in and year out. And yet the guy is criticized for not being a defensive mastermind like Bill Bellicheck. The whole "look at the situation he has created on the d-line" arguement cant hold any water. Seriously, the guy has had busts there, as everyone has, but he has also had some serious talent. Berry, Hayward, Pryce. These are guys who left us for money or were offered better deals. That cant be blamed on shannahan. There is a cap limit and sometimes you just cant afford to resign a player for what you expect to recieve in return. By the way, for as much criticism as the Browncos get, does anyone remember what we gave up for all those players? One average runningback. The rest were signed or packaged in the trade. Remember our lead sacker and pass rusher was hurt the whole season. I guess that was shanahan's fault to for not knowing that would happen. Kudos, goes to shanahan for trying to address the situation already. Atleast he knows he cant master defense and was willing to pay for someone to come in that does. I think too many people are expecting perfection here. Cutler/Plummer isnt Elway. Mike/Tatum arent Terrell Davis. Lynch isnt a Atwater. Carlile is not a Zimmerman. Pears/Foster arent a Lepsis. And Eukabon/Dumerville arent even a Pryce!!! Go figure, we arent perfect, and we never will be. Even the #1 seed in the AFC, aka the most complete team in the NFL, was beat in the divisional round of the playoffs. Ladies and Gentlemen, i have a news flash. There has never been and will never be a completely perfect all-star regular season team. It is really unrealistic to expect every hole/gap/weakness to be addressed and filled with a all-star. What i would really like to see is some slack cut out for our coaches and players. We shouldnt put unrealistic measures on these guys, i am hoping that we get a franchise back, a solid pass rusher, and a cover safety that isnt soft... and all the rest. but please? "Shanahan drafted a so and so 5 years ago and therefore isnt qualified to be a good drafting expert" is a very dumb statement. I would hate to see mile high city put mile high expectations on this organization. Dream? sure. Work, ofcourse! Try? always! But let's reserve some of this criticism until it becomes apparent that criticism is due. That time of criticism has not arrived for shanahan or his young offense, and fighting defense either. Criticism was due for Coyer, and possibly for other players that the organization feels are weak links. But please! Let's hope for the future and build from the past. Go Broncos. :salute:Behold the wall of text! :goofy:

But seriously, you have the overall right idea...Broncos fans are so used to the great success of past teams that they feel a 9-7 team is absolutely horrible. Well it's not, I live in Cincinnati and until recently the Bengals sucked really bad for 15 straight years, a 9-7 season would've been amazing back near 2000. We have a team that competes every single year, and we basically have Mike Shanahan to thank for it.

[hardcorebronco]

You are totally right! And you have completely changed the way I look Shanahan. Not only at Shanahan, but at life! :thumb:


If he had to teach him self to evaluate the talent that is in each and every draft then he should have never had the personel responsibilties in the first place.


Where are these "major players" he's pulled in "in FA practically every off-season"? The Browncos? Leon Lett? Every "Major player" that comes to visit the Broncos leaves town without a contract.

And before you give me a lecture on the realities of the salary cap, keep in mind he's responsible for the cap situation.

The title of the thread asks people for their opinion. Imo, Shanahan sucks at drafting!

He has recently been making bold moves that have really paid off. Moves that, imo, keep his overall grade from being pathetic. But he is FAR from a master!

And the next time someone tells me that "Everyone makes mistakes" should give an example of someone who's made the mistakes Shanahan has and still has his job like Shanahan does.

To my knowledge Shanahan is the only personel guru to ever draft Lennie Friedman 61st overall. (apparently he was learning the ropes :D )

When the league saw fit to award the Broncos a compensatory 3rd round pick in 2004. Shanahan saw fit to blow it on a loser (who, btw, cost the NFL god knows how much money in lawyers fees in a lawsuit that didn't exactly make the league look good).

It's not just that he's made mistakes, it's that he's made so many of them.

Criticism is long overdue.
All your incoherent rambling proved is that your a homer who can't spell!


"Shanahan had to teach himself to draft"......That is a good one! :D
I believe i said he was a master at bringing in players period, not just through the draft. I guess getting backs like Terrel Davis, C. Portis, and Signing others like Rueben Droughns and Ron Dayne... and then trading all of em (except Davis) and getting value! Signing Lynch wasnt much... Signing Plummer was an average day deal (he was a good solution at the time remember). And after all, who would trade for Champ Bailey? Naw, he hasnt made any great deals either! Signing the Browncos was not a bad deal, all we lost was drouhgns, and remember, the sacks would have been higher except the best brownco we have C. Brown, was injured. What would you have done? Kept Pryce in exchange for have the defenses' salary?
Building upon draft after draft Shanahan has been more successful each year in getting quality players to fill in roles. Remember when everyone hated him for getting three corners? "What a mistake that was" was the common thread. Well, two of them have shown great potential and demonstrated talent already and a third has been there to provide depth. Going up in the draft and snagging Cutler. Drafting Scheffler was huge! Compare his athletic numbers numbers to Vernon Davis, the so highly aclaimed TE going into the draft. Virtually exactly the same, but i would take Tony any day of the week on Davis, and Tony was a second rounder not a top ten pick.
I must regress, i think i would rather have Art Shell as head coach, he is availible. Or maybe we can trade straight up Marty for Shanny? Yah lets axe Shanahan while good head coaches are availible! We could promote from within! Make Slowic head coach! Fastest promotion in the NFL!!! Give me a break. :D

[jhns]

You are totally right! And you have completely changed the way I look Shanahan. Not only at Shanahan, but at life! :thumb:


If he had to teach him self to evaluate the talent that is in each and every draft then he should have never had the personel responsibilties in the first place.


Where are these "major players" he's pulled in "in FA practically every off-season"? The Browncos? Leon Lett? Every "Major player" that comes to visit the Broncos leaves town without a contract.

And before you give me a lecture on the realities of the salary cap, keep in mind he's responsible for the cap situation.

The title of the thread asks people for their opinion. Imo, Shanahan sucks at drafting!

He has recently been making bold moves that have really paid off. Moves that, imo, keep his overall grade from being pathetic. But he is FAR from a master!

And the next time someone tells me that "Everyone makes mistakes" should give an example of someone who's made the mistakes Shanahan has and still has his job like Shanahan does.

To my knowledge Shanahan is the only personel guru to ever draft Lennie Friedman 61st overall. (apparently he was learning the ropes :D )

When the league saw fit to award the Broncos a compensatory 3rd round pick in 2004. Shanahan saw fit to blow it on a loser (who, btw, cost the NFL god knows how much money in lawyers fees in a lawsuit that didn't exactly make the league look good).

It's not just that he's made mistakes, it's that he's made so many of them.

Criticism is long overdue.
All your incoherent rambling proved is that your a homer who can't spell!


"Shanahan had to teach himself to draft"......That is a good one! :D

Why do you even like this team then??? If you think he hasn't brought in anyone from the draft, FA, or trade then you obviously don't like anyone on the roster. Everyone currently on the roster was brought here by Shanny.

I'm glad that you think we don't have a single good player though. Shows how much you like and respect this team.

[Dean]

If the real question is do I have confidence that Shanahan will get the players that he feel that he needs (we may or may not agree with him), the answer is YES! He will use whatever means at his disposal to accomplish the task. He'll use free agency, trades, and, yes, the draft to git 'er done.

You have to realize that one of the primary reasons that this last year's draft was so good was due to his ability to trade. He traded with Washington to get the extra first round pick. He then traded a first round pick for multiple later round picks. He used this excess of draft picks to trade to get Jovan and to move up to get Jay. Already this year we have an early third round pick from last year's trade of Lelie and a fourth next year.

He has several players currently on the roster that he can trade for picks and/or players in areas of need. He seems to have compensated for our yearly 20+ draft slot by using his trading ability to move up to better talent.

The Broncos are not as tight against the cap as they have been in recent years. My guess is that Mike will be a little more active in free agency once again.

He will use all three avenues to once again put a quality team on the field. :rockon:

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Even though last years draft was his best to date, I still am somewhat unnerved by the draft of two years ago. DJ WIlliams who, while a very solid player is overpaid and not the "impact player" a first round LB should be (we should've taken Steven Jackson). Tatum Bell looks to potentially be on his way out of Denver - let's just hope we get something of value for him. Darius Watts? I don't know what happened there but it was definitely a wasted pick. Triandos Luke - same thing. Hell, is there anybody from that draft still on the team other than DJ and Tatum? I guess Ernster...oohh nice one... :rolleyes:

I hate to say it, but I've got a really bad feeling that this will be one of "those years" that we watch a lot of good players fall to us and not be taken while Shanny gambles and reaches for guys that would still be there 2 rounds later.

Marshawn Lynch? Don't count on it. DL anywhere in the first 3 rounds? When was the last time that happened? Nope, we'll be picking up undersized O-linemen, CBs that we don't need, or reaching for DBs/WRs that project as KR/PR and had fast 40 times but not much else (and even that will be a stretch).

Sorry if I'm being a wet blanket here, but I've got "that feeling" again. :ugh:

[stnzed]

Why do you even like this team then??? If you think he hasn't brought in anyone from the draft, FA, or trade then you obviously don't like anyone on the roster. Everyone currently on the roster was brought here by Shanny.

I'm glad that you think we don't have a single good player though. Shows how much you like and respect this team.


There a lot of players on this team I like, some I don't. Your putting words in my mouth.

We are talking about Shanahan's drafts . And the question was whether or not we have "Faith in Shanahan in this draft". And since I do not you've turned me into some kind of judas.

There are very few things about this team that is special. A boat load of "System" players.

Your acting like Shanahan is omnipotent. And that every player is top shelf. :rolleyes:

His trades for Walker and Bailey were great. His drafting of Cutler, Wilson and Portis was great. After that it's been some good, some bad and some "*** was he thinking".

Btw, his work in free agency has been mostly disappointing.


You think Shanahan is great! I DON'T!

I think we're done here!



.

[UnderArmour]

I'm scared.

[stnzed]

I believe i said he was a master at bringing in players period, not just through the draft. I guess getting backs like Terrel Davis, C. Portis, and Signing others like Rueben Droughns and Ron Dayne... and then trading all of em (except Davis) and getting value! Signing Lynch wasnt much... Signing Plummer was an average day deal (he was a good solution at the time remember). And after all, who would trade for Champ Bailey? Naw, he hasnt made any great deals either! Signing the Browncos was not a bad deal, all we lost was drouhgns, and remember, the sacks would have been higher except the best brownco we have C. Brown, was injured. What would you have done? Kept Pryce in exchange for have the defenses' salary?
Building upon draft after draft Shanahan has been more successful each year in getting quality players to fill in roles. Remember when everyone hated him for getting three corners? "What a mistake that was" was the common thread. Well, two of them have shown great potential and demonstrated talent already and a third has been there to provide depth. Going up in the draft and snagging Cutler. Drafting Scheffler was huge! Compare his athletic numbers numbers to Vernon Davis, the so highly aclaimed TE going into the draft. Virtually exactly the same, but i would take Tony any day of the week on Davis, and Tony was a second rounder not a top ten pick.
I must regress, i think i would rather have Art Shell as head coach, he is availible. Or maybe we can trade straight up Marty for Shanny? Yah lets axe Shanahan while good head coaches are availible! We could promote from within! Make Slowic head coach! Fastest promotion in the NFL!!! Give me a break. :D


You people are absolutely right....Shanahan is the single greatest personel man to ever walk the face of the earth.

Every single move he has ever made was a stroke of genius!

(How do you like it when people twist your words?)


You specifically said "FA"....Meaning to me Free Agents. Like Daryle Gardner! Like it matters anyway...He is a master of NONE! ("He is a master of bringing in players period" is the funniest damn thing I've heard in years...Congradulations!)


Btw, the highlighted part is the single most ridiculous arguement about Shanahan's personel dicisions (decisions :D ) considering I never said a word about his coaching. The only thing "regressing" is your arguement and debating. (It's Digress...D-i-g-r-e-s-s, hardcore. Digress!)

Now give me a break and move the F' on! :D

[Dean]

:D You people are absolutely right....Shanahan is the single greatest personel man to ever walk the face of the earth.

Every single move he has ever made was a stroke of genius!

(How do you like it when people twist your words?)


You specifically said "FA"....Meaning to me Free Agents. Like Daryle Gardner! Like it matters anyway...He is a master of NONE!


Btw, the highlighted part is the single most ridiculous arguement about Shanahan's personel dicisions considering I never said a word about his coaching. The only thing "regressing" is your arguement and debating. (It's Digress)

Now give me a break and move the F' on!

I am glad to see that you have seen the error of your ways.

:cheers: Oh, by the way, it is personnel decisions.

[stnzed]

:D

I am glad to see that you have seen the error of your ways.

:cheers: Oh, by the way, it is personnel decisions.


I'm nothing if not coachable! :D

[SM19]

I'm scared.

You're not the only one. Draft day with Mike terrifies me. Not because I think he'll blow it, but because I have no idea whether he'll blow it or not. He won't let the first day go by without doing something completely insane; I hope it works.

[eletero]

I have faith - but it's ted sunquist who is responsible for a lot of the decision making.

He and the scouts will pick out options and discuss them with Shanny. Shanny said something along those lines a few years back pre-draft.

Last year was good...

Cutler, Scheffler, Marshall, Dummervil and Walker.

That's 5 starters next year and 5 people who've produced this year! Plus some good o-line prospects.

We'll have to see about Hixon.

I can't see us being as sucessful this year, although trading up in the first using Jake in a trade would be very appealing.

I wonder if it will be RB, given that Maroney was going to be taken last year if we didn't trade up.

I say 7, given good years 2005, 2006, ok year 2004 and 2003 which was terrible!


-e

[TXBRONC]

I have faith - but it's ted sunquist who is responsible for a lot of the decision making.

He and the scouts will pick out options and discuss them with Shanny. Shanny said something along those lines a few years back pre-draft.

Last year was good...

Cutler, Scheffler, Marshall, Dummervil and Walker.

That's 5 starters next year and 5 people who've produced this year! Plus some good o-line prospects.

We'll have to see about Hixon.

I can't see us being as successful this year, although trading up in the first using Jake in a trade would be very appealing.

I wonder if it will be RB, given that Maroney was going to be taken last year if we didn't trade up.

I say 7, given good years 2005, 2006, ok year 2004 and 2003 which was terrible!


-e

Shanahan is over Sundquist as Vice President of Player Personnel. (I think that's the title.) Nevertheless I Shanahan has the last word on who to bring in.

[Freestyle]

Shanahan is over Sundquist as Vice President of Player Personnel. (I think that's the title.) Nevertheless I Shanahan has the last word on who to bring in.
Basically what Shanny wants, Shanny gets.

[Freestyle]

Mark me down for "I'm bracing myself".

[BroncodogPG]

Shanny's history has been up and down since he's been with the Broncos.. A week ago I posted his history of 1st rounders... I think last year's draft was his BEST ever!!! So, going into this draft... how much confidence do you have in coach/gm shanny? on a scale from 1-10, one being no faith and ten being he'll get all-pro talent... what do you think?

I give shanny this: although he's been up & down in the past... with both hits and misses... I will give credit where credit is due. The last two drafts shanny has had lots of success. Sure, he was killed for taking 3 DBs in a row... for taking a chance on M.Clarrett... With all that said, let's look at the results, shall we:

Two years ago Shanny got perhaps the steal of the draft in the Darrent Williams selections. MOst re-draft experts following last year's season said that if the draft was redone, given the production of rookies, then Darrent was a top ten first rounder!!! Not too shabby with the 56th pick huh!

Last year... Shanny's best ever! Despite being one game from Super Bowl, Shanny worms his way up the draft and takes a "franchise" QB. Gets what looks to be like a very capable TE. THEN... they get a bonafide #2 WR in Marshall and possible elite pass rushing specialist (who led team in sacks as rookie) in Elvis... both in the FOURTH ROUND. Already redraft experts had elvis a 1st round pick! Not to mention undrafted Bell (who set records as URFA) and Pears, who even Madden wondered how he wasn't drafted by somebody. Add to that mix: Kuper, Eslinger, Hixon. Who could possibly be starting RG, C and KR next season and thereafter... Suffice to say Shanny did bang-up job.

Do I have faith? Well, I would say YES... emphatically. I give it a solid 8!

If he continues his trend, then whichever direction he goes with this draft, we should expect 3 contributing players, at least, for next year... and one stud! :cheers: :rockon: :confused: :goofy: :DYeah, i trust Shanny

[jhns]

There a lot of players on this team I like, some I don't. Your putting words in my mouth.

We are talking about Shanahan's drafts . And the question was whether or not we have "Faith in Shanahan in this draft". And since I do not you've turned me into some kind of judas.

There are very few things about this team that is special. A boat load of "System" players.

Your acting like Shanahan is omnipotent. And that every player is top shelf. :rolleyes:

His trades for Walker and Bailey were great. His drafting of Cutler, Wilson and Portis was great. After that it's been some good, some bad and some "*** was he thinking".

Btw, his work in free agency has been mostly disappointing.


You think Shanahan is great! I DON'T!

I think we're done here!



.

Well then he must be a better coach than I thought if he never has good talent yet can always compete like he does.

I don't know if you think football is like baseball or what but no team has that many top shelf players. It is impossible since the invention of the salary cap. So in that case you have to pick and choose where you have the top shelf players and sometimes just take the ones that you can get.

It isn't like he has had good picks to work with at any time in his career in Denver. We didn't get like 15 years of top 10 picks like San Diego did.

[hardcorebronco]

Well then he must be a better coach than I thought if he never has good talent yet can always compete like he does.

I don't know if you think football is like baseball or what but no team has that many top shelf players. It is impossible since the invention of the salary cap. So in that case you have to pick and choose where you have the top shelf players and sometimes just take the ones that you can get.

It isn't like he has had good picks to work with at any time in his career in Denver. We didn't get like 15 years of top 10 picks like San Diego did.

Thank You!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Someone who understands the realism of the NFL. Look at some of the contenders in the AFC that went into the playoffs. They all had a weakness!!!
Colts - Awesome Offense | Good Denfense
Patriots - Good Offense | Good Defense
Chargers - Awesome Offense | Good defense
Ravens - Average Offense | Spectacular defense
It is Impossible to have two awesome's or expecially two spectacular's. You have to decide where to focus the attention and dedicate yourself and your offseason moves to solidify that area. Just the fact that Shanahan and Sundquist have aquired two good defensive coaches means that they are not trying to give the shaft to the defense. There is no way we will have a ravens d for anytime soon. So the whole draft / sign / trade for 2 DE's 1 DT 1 safety and 1 lb to replace gold and 1 new corner across from Bailey certainly wont all be filled. Expect Shanahan to shore up the d-line with a couple new players. But i doubt there is an overhaul at defense. The safety-corner-lb, positions will most likely not be addressed unless a rediculous opportunity falls in our hands. Shanahan has always been about a good d, and potent o. I expect to see some second day offensive linemen, and a first day rb at the least.

Also, the people pointing out every bum, and underachiever that ever was brought here, is meaningless. You can literally go to any team in the NFL and criticize it just like you criticize Shanahan. Stop please? Like JHNS said. the chargers had a ton of top ten picks, and not until recently have they become good at drafting and successful in personel aquisations. So chill. He might not be the best coach in the NFL, but they guy is definately in the top ten, and you wouldnt find another coach to fill his place. Have faith Broncomania, Shanahan has a great base of talent to build on, and he will take us to the promise land again! :D

[TXBRONC]

Mark me down for "I'm bracing myself".

I understand, but the last two drafts to this point have been solid. Maybe Shanahan and his staff have finally learned to evaluate the draft talent. Or maybe he's trusting their evaluations more.

[underrated29]

i am going to go with a 10, yes a 10

heres why:

this year i think everyone would agree that despite who the overall 1st pick is (if we stay at 21) we would be happy and benefit from either,lynch,a pimp dt/de, or a saftey(not really sure on that one, if there is one good enough to go that high, but assuming there is) or someone like tedd ginn jr.

if we got any of those the 1st pick should be very good, cuz we could really use all, yes some more then others but i would say they are all pretty close.

then lets say we got lynch, so next pick, he will go dl unless there is a cant miss player still on the board. Bates and everyone else will make sure dl is 1 of our top 2 picks, after that shanny could go dl,ol,rb if we didnt yet,saftey, or whatever and we will have satisfied our biggest holes of: imo rb,dl,dl,ol/wr,s within the first 3 picks.

how can he really mess this one up.

he wont go qb, prolly not lb, prolly not te, wr late rounds,oline depth is needed, kicker-mason crosby or bust-

so imo he really cant go wrong as long as he gets rb,dl,cant miss player with the first 2 picks.

[hardcorebronco]

i am going to go with a 10, yes a 10

heres why:

this year i think everyone would agree that despite who the overall 1st pick is (if we stay at 21) we would be happy and benefit from either,lynch,a pimp dt/de, or a saftey(not really sure on that one, if there is one good enough to go that high, but assuming there is) or someone like tedd ginn jr.

if we got any of those the 1st pick should be very good, cuz we could really use all, yes some more then others but i would say they are all pretty close.

then lets say we got lynch, so next pick, he will go dl unless there is a cant miss player still on the board. Bates and everyone else will make sure dl is 1 of our top 2 picks, after that shanny could go dl,ol,rb if we didnt yet,saftey, or whatever and we will have satisfied our biggest holes of: imo rb,dl,dl,ol/wr,s within the first 3 picks.

how can he really mess this one up.

he wont go qb, prolly not lb, prolly not te, wr late rounds,oline depth is needed, kicker-mason crosby or bust-

so imo he really cant go wrong as long as he gets rb,dl,cant miss player with the first 2 picks.

I would throw a punter in on that list should a really good one be availible late in the day. I never liked Todd, and was glad he was sent home, but ernster just hasnt cut it in my book. Sure he is young, but if u find someone out of the draft late the second day that can compete for the starting job and possibly do better at the same generic ball park, price wise, then i would think we would grab em! But yah, our needs are basic positions, but where you may say sure shanahan drafted a player at each need, the tricky part is hoping you didnt just grab a bust. They do happen quite frequent i dont care who you are. All in all, i think this will be a great draft, because we are likely to fill a role with atleast 2 great players. Thats my prediction! :D

[stnzed]

Well then he must be a better coach than I thought if he never has good talent yet can always compete like he does.

I don't know if you think football is like baseball or what but no team has that many top shelf players. It is impossible since the invention of the salary cap. So in that case you have to pick and choose where you have the top shelf players and sometimes just take the ones that you can get.

It isn't like he has had good picks to work with at any time in his career in Denver. We didn't get like 15 years of top 10 picks like San Diego did.


Dude just stop! Stop putting words in my mouth. I NEVER said Shanahan never has good talent.

I don't even know what your talking about anymore. What are you talking about?

What does baseball have to do with Shanahan's poor drafting? You have stopped making sense.

Shanahan must be a better coach than you thought b/c he IS obviously a worse personel guy than you think!

Was Merriman a top ten pick? Castillo? Phillips? Olshansky? Cooper? Harris? Hardwick? Deilman? Gates? McNeill?

No they were not!

LT, Rivers and Jammer were. That's it!

Do not compare Shanahan's body of work to those SD had not taken in the top ten.


Put the Kool-Aid down and back away!

[lonefaninohio]

Denvers draft last year was excellent. This year I hope turns out as well for the D side of the ball, as last year was for the O side. I would like to see a Dt taken in the 1st round if one is there good enough to be taken at that spot, and a De in the 2nd round. Then worry about finding a safety after that. I personally wouldn't want to see a punter taken until at least the 6th round. For no more than they do they're not worth it.

[stnzed]

Thank You!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Someone who understands the realism of the NFL. Look at some of the contenders in the AFC that went into the playoffs. They all had a weakness!!!
Colts - Awesome Offense | Good Denfense
Patriots - Good Offense | Good Defense
Chargers - Awesome Offense | Good defense
Ravens - Average Offense | Spectacular defense
It is Impossible to have two awesome's or expecially two spectacular's. You have to decide where to focus the attention and dedicate yourself and your offseason moves to solidify that area. Just the fact that Shanahan and Sundquist have aquired two good defensive coaches means that they are not trying to give the shaft to the defense. There is no way we will have a ravens d for anytime soon. So the whole draft / sign / trade for 2 DE's 1 DT 1 safety and 1 lb to replace gold and 1 new corner across from Bailey certainly wont all be filled. Expect Shanahan to shore up the d-line with a couple new players. But i doubt there is an overhaul at defense. The safety-corner-lb, positions will most likely not be addressed unless a rediculous opportunity falls in our hands. Shanahan has always been about a good d, and potent o. I expect to see some second day offensive linemen, and a first day rb at the least.

Also, the people pointing out every bum, and underachiever that ever was brought here, is meaningless. You can literally go to any team in the NFL and criticize it just like you criticize Shanahan. Stop please? Like JHNS said. the chargers had a ton of top ten picks, and not until recently have they become good at drafting and successful in personel aquisations. So chill. He might not be the best coach in the NFL, but they guy is definately in the top ten, and you wouldnt find another coach to fill his place. Have faith Broncomania, Shanahan has a great base of talent to build on, and he will take us to the promise land again! :D



Realism?

You want reality?

The reality of the matter is that all of these teams have outstanding personel people.

All of them.

They are all better at drafting than the Broncos!

They all draft well.....And not just in the last couple years either. That IS what we're talking about here isn't it? Shanahan drafting?

Sure they have made mistakes but, "Everybody makes mistakes"!!!

How is that for Reality? :D


Btw, how many top ten picks have the Chargers had? How many is a ton? Do you know the answer? Or are you just regurgitating something someone else said?

Shanahan is the best coach in the league (with the possible exception of Belichick), imo. Nobody is suggesting replacing Shanahan, not even as personel guy! So stop putting words in my mouth!

Can you people not debate without misrepresenting what people are saying?





.

[BroncoForLife27]

What are you guys talkin about? Shanny is a good drafter, better than most I think.

Last year he drafted our whole future offense basically, best draft ever (J Walker too).

Year before he got our 2 future corners and a good ST guy in Paymah. RIP DWILL

Year before that he got DJ and Tater.... wait, nevermind, I just looked at the old drafts and Shanny is horrible. 03 draft produced 0 starters and 04 draft only gave DJ.

Ok, ok, but he's obviously getting better. :goofy:

[stnzed]

What are you guys talkin about? Shanny is a good drafter, better than most I think.

Last year he drafted our whole future offense basically, best draft ever (J Walker too).

Year before he got our 2 future corners and a good ST guy in Paymah. RIP DWILL

Year before that he got DJ and Tater.... wait, nevermind, I just looked at the old drafts and Shanny is horrible. 03 draft produced 0 starters and 04 draft only gave DJ.

Ok, ok, but he's obviously getting better. :goofy:


It is getting better. I agree with that.

I started out by saying I will not have complete faith in Shanahan's drafting until he get's the Broncos out of this mess. That is how I feel. But I get torched and labeled a Judas.

The Broncos could really use help at every position except LB, couldn't they?

This is a direct result of mistakes and wrong moves Shanahan has made prior to these last couple years.

Anyone who contests that fact should wake up and smell what they're shoveling!


.

[lonefaninohio]

So , he takes a few chances. I like that. I agree with whoever it was that said Denver doesn't get top ten picks like some teams do every couple years, because they don't have those bad years, and yet the team is improving. someone has to be doing something right.

[lonefaninohio]

It is getting better. I agree with that.

I started out by saying I will not have complete faith in Shanahan's drafting until he get's the Broncos out of this mess.

The Broncos could really use help at every position except LB, couldn't they?

This is a direct result of mistakes and wrong moves Shanahan has made prior to these last couple years.

Anyone who contests that fact should wake up and smell what they're shoveling!

Do you really think they need that much help? I think you need to see an eye doctor, because you didn't see what I saw. Out of the afc teams in the playoffs that they played, they either beat'em or it was a close game.

[stnzed]

So , he takes a few chances. I like that. I agree with whoever it was that said Denver doesn't get top ten picks like some teams do every couple years, because they don't have those bad years, and yet the team is improving. someone has to be doing something right.



Shanahan can coach his ass off! That is the thing that is being done right.

Someone tell me how many top ten picks tha Chargers have had.

A better point of fact would be that all of those were not only top ten picks, but top five picks.

But far be it from me to help jhns and hardcore make a pertinent point! :rolleyes:

[lancane]

So , he takes a few chances. I like that. I agree with whoever it was that said Denver doesn't get top ten picks like some teams do every couple years, because they don't have those bad years, and yet the team is improving. someone has to be doing something right.

unfortunatley he needs another good off-season, because he has a Clarett stain that seems to remain, in most of his previous drafts he has produced fewer starters then nearly every NFL franchise, including Washington who I feel is the worst at drafting then any NFL organization. I am positive because our head scout is the same as last years, which was his first year at the position and had a wonderful draft, I think more or less Shanahan was listening to his head scout that did not know the difference between a 3rd Round grade and a 1st Round grade...I think we will have a great draft and off-season.

[fraguela09]

It is getting better. I agree with that.

I started out by saying I will not have complete faith in Shanahan's drafting until he get's the Broncos out of this mess.

The Broncos could really use help at every position except LB, couldn't they?

This is a direct result of mistakes and wrong moves Shanahan has made prior to these last couple years.

Anyone who contests that fact should wake up and smell what they're shoveling!


I agree that Shanny has had some poor drafts in the past... I don't necessarily blame him for taking a few busts early b/c he's more than made up for that with some incredible late round selections. Getting TD on day two... nice. BUt, there were a few years where he didn't draft a single player to impact team and give production. IN the NFL, especially these days... you just can't have consecutive drafts where you don't add talent, let alone depth, to your squad. I commend Shanny for realizing this and bringing in help two years ago...

Now, you can look at it two ways. You can be happy with last two drafts and feel Shanny has gotten better (whether it's delegating responsibility, relying more on others, whatever) or you can feel like we are due for another bad draft where we net duds, not studs!

This is my concern for this draft: Denver drafts #21 & #56 with first two picks. You can be assured we get a stud with the first rounder but what about the second rounder? This is where Shanny and crew need to do their homework. It might even be worth trading up in second round, not first... Depending on what we sign during free agency, Denver needs to fill other hole with first round pick. Here's the deal: we can fill a need with 1st round pick but may miss out on player we covet to fill other needs b/c after we select in 1st round, all the other "falling" talent will be gobbled up by #56 pick.

I would love for Denver to get RB and DE in first two rounds. But, if we grab RB early we may miss out on all these potential dominating pass rushing DEs. BUt, if we take a DE early, we might miss out on getting top five RB in draft. This is why I say trade up in second round, get two low-risk picks... this will lower the probability of selecting a bust. If we trade up in first we risk getting one need filled, but sacrificing the other need by waiting on a bust. :confused:

[lonefaninohio]

Shanahan can coach his ass off! That is the thing that is being done right.

Someone tell me how many top ten picks tha Chargers have had.

A better point of fact would be that all of those were not only top ten picks, but top five picks.

But far be it from me to help jhns and hardcore make a pertinent point! :rolleyes:
So do you not think that they made excellent move last year in the draft? Because I thought last year was A+.

[stnzed]

Do you really think they need that much help? I think you need to see an eye doctor, because you didn't see what I saw. Out of the afc teams in the playoffs that they played, they either beat'em or it was a close game.


No! And thanks for asking! I think they could use some help! I DO see what your seeing!

I don't think they are that far off. Their one glaring weakness is the pass rush.

Improvements elsewhere are needed as well. I'm not saying they are the freaking Raiders.

I'M ONLY SAYING I DON'T HAVE COMPLETE FAITH IN SHANAHAN'S DRAFTING YET!

It is my opinion that you could benifit from a course in Reading and Comprehension.

What that means is that you apparently can't read very well!

The Broncos are not in the play-offs with those teams you mentioned. Deal with it! The rest of that BS is just that...BS!


.

[stnzed]

So do you not think that they made excellent move last year in the draft? Because I thought last year was A+.



Jesus H @$@#$#$^^!!!!!!!!!!!


YES I DOOOOOOOO!!!!!@!!! :brick: :brick:


Seriously. I love last years draft! I LOVE LAST YEARS DRAFT! I LOVE THE DRAFT THE YEAR BEFORE....AND THE YEAR BEFORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Do not respond to this post until you have read it at least five times!!!!!! Slowly!

[fraguela09]

To get an idea regarding Shanny's tendencies in the draft let's look at the history during Mike's tenure:

1995 - 1st pick Denver had was in 4th round... they chose OT Jamie Brown from
Florida A&M. Other noteables: Terrell Davis (6th) & B.Chamberlain (7th)

1996 - #1 pick (15th overall) Denver selected LB John Mobley. CB Tory James 2nd
round pick.

1997 - #1 pick (28th overall) Denver slect DE Trevor Pryce out of Clemson.

1998 - {Shanny's first really bad draft} #1 Pick Denver selects WR Marcus Nash
with the final pick of 1st round. CB Samari Rolle & CB Brian Kelly go in
2nd round... In 3rd round, with 91st pick Denver takes B.Griese, Hines
Ward is the next pick.

1999 - #1 Pick (31st overall) Denver selects LB Al Wislon.

2000 - #1 Pick (15th overall) Denver selects CB Deltha O'Neil (Shaun Alexander
is taken four picks later but we get Mike Anderson in 6th at #189).

2001 - #1 Pick (24th overall) Denver selects CB Willie MIddlebrooks (In the next
20 picks went Chad Johnson, Drew Brees, Algae Crumpler, Reggie Wayne,
Todd Heap, Chris Chambers & Fred Smoot... Ouch!).

2002 - #1 Pick (19th pick) WR Ashley Lelie (take Clinton Portis in 2nd Round)

2003 - #1 Pick (20th pick) OT George Foster (passing LJ and Mcgahee) & with
#2 Pick (51st overall) Denver takes LB Terry Pierce (passing on Mike Doss
Anquan Boldin and Osi Umenyiora).

2004 - #1 Pick (17th overall) Denver slects LB D.J. Williams from the "U."

2005 - With the 56th pick (2nd round) Denver takes the belated and beloved
Darrent Williams.

2006 - #1 Pick (11th overall) Denver selects Jay Cutler



In all, in the first round coach Mike Shanny has done just about everything... trade up, trade out, Dbs, RBs, OLs, WRs, LBs... In the history of 1st round picks Shanny has had 10 first round picks (3LBs, 1DL, 1OL, 2WRs, 2CBs & 1QB)... If you account for the other two drafts where Shanny did not have first rounder, his first picks in the draft include (another OL & CB). To be honest, in the twelve drafts Shanny has overseen, FIVE 1st selections by the Broncos have panned out (Mobley, Pryce, Wilson, Williams & Williams)... The rest were either busts or disappointments. Five of Twelve! NOw, Shanny has atoned for poor early picks with some nice later round selections.

The obvious is, of course, Shanny has entered draft day focused on team needs and has gone from there. You are not going to draft LJ when Portis is on your squad. With that said, it appears Shanny had most success when he drafted the best available player with 1st round picks, not most needed. In other words, when Denver was looking for a WR or CB they made some poor decisions... when they took best available athlete out there they got nice picks... Seems like this will be the case this year.

My Final Conclusion: after careful analysis, Broncos will select best avaliable defensive body... DE or DT... OR... even LB. If there is a LB they like, they will not pass over on one.. I think they will take a saftey with their second round pick but there is still a possibility if one of the SS/FS slip to Denver and they like him, they may take a safety with the first round pick.

[Tour]

me... did i earn a CP for that?

[lonefaninohio]

Jesus H @$@#$#$^^!!!!!!!!!!!


YES I DOOOOOOOO!!!!!@!!! :brick: :brick:


Seriously. I love last years draft! I LOVE LAST YEARS DRAFT! I LOVE THE DRAFT THE YEAR BEFORE....AND THE YEAR BEFORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Do not respond to this post until you have read it at least five times!!!!!! Slowly!
You liked there previous drafts, but you think they need help at every position but LB. Is that what you wrote, or am I making that up? That is what I read, 10 times!!! I read it really slow, and it said the same thing all 10 times.

[stnzed]

To get an idea regarding Shanny's tendencies in the draft let's look at the history during Mike's tenure:

1995 - 1st pick Denver had was in 4th round... they chose OT Jamie Brown from
Florida A&M. Other noteables: Terrell Davis (6th) & B.Chamberlain (7th)

1996 - #1 pick (15th overall) Denver selected LB John Mobley. CB Tory James 2nd
round pick.

1997 - #1 pick (28th overall) Denver slect DE Trevor Pryce out of Clemson.

1998 - {Shanny's first really bad draft} #1 Pick Denver selects WR Marcus Nash
with the final pick of 1st round. CB Samari Rolle & CB Brian Kelly go in
2nd round... In 3rd round, with 91st pick Denver takes B.Griese, Hines
Ward is the next pick.

1999 - #1 Pick (31st overall) Denver selects LB Al Wislon.

2000 - #1 Pick (15th overall) Denver selects CB Deltha O'Neil (Shaun Alexander
is taken four picks later but we get Mike Anderson in 6th at #189).

2001 - #1 Pick (24th overall) Denver selects CB Willie MIddlebrooks (In the next
20 picks went Chad Johnson, Drew Brees, Algae Crumpler, Reggie Wayne,
Todd Heap, Chris Chambers & Fred Smoot... Ouch!).

2002 - #1 Pick (19th pick) WR Ashley Lelie (take Clinton Portis in 2nd Round)

2003 - #1 Pick (20th pick) OT George Foster (passing LJ and Mcgahee) & with
#2 Pick (51st overall) Denver takes LB Terry Pierce (passing on Mike Doss
Anquan Boldin and Osi Umenyiora).

2004 - #1 Pick (17th overall) Denver slects LB D.J. Williams from the "U."

2005 - With the 56th pick (2nd round) Denver takes the belated and beloved
Darrent Williams.

2006 - #1 Pick (11th overall) Denver selects Jay Cutler



In all, in the first round coach Mike Shanny has done just about everything... trade up, trade out, Dbs, RBs, OLs, WRs, LBs... In the history of 1st round picks Shanny has had 10 first round picks (3LBs, 1DL, 1OL, 2WRs, 2CBs & 1QB)... If you account for the other two drafts where Shanny did not have first rounder, his first picks in the draft include (another OL & CB). To be honest, in the twelve drafts Shanny has overseen, FIVE 1st selections by the Broncos have panned out (Mobley, Pryce, Wilson, Williams & Williams)... The rest were either busts or disappointments. Five of Twelve! NOw, Shanny has atoned for poor early picks with some nice later round selections.

The obvious is, of course, Shanny has entered draft day focused on team needs and has gone from there. You are not going to draft LJ when Portis is on your squad. With that said, it appears Shanny had most success when he drafted the best available player with 1st round picks, not most needed. In other words, when Denver was looking for a WR or CB they made some poor decisions... when they took best available athlete out there they got nice picks... Seems like this will be the case this year.

My Final Conclusion: after careful analysis, Broncos will select best avaliable defensive body... DE or DT... OR... even LB. If there is a LB they like, they will not pass over on one.. I think they will take a saftey with their second round pick but there is still a possibility if one of the SS/FS slip to Denver and they like him, they may take a safety with the first round pick.

This is another great post!

One thing I want to point out about the 99 draft is that the Broncos had 6 picks in the top 127 picks in that draft......And came away with ONE player that is still starting!

1st rd) Al Wilson,LB, 31st overall. The lone remaining starter. Irreplacable!

2nd rd) Montae Reagor, DE, 58th overall. The Broncos thought so much of this DE that they promptly moved him to DT when it was obvious he was not a DE.

2nd rd) Lennie ******* Friedman, G, 61st overall!!!! ??????????

3rd rd) Chris Watson, CB, 67th overall. Gone a couple years later!

3rd rd) Travis ******* McGriff, WR, 93 overall. Never did a thing in the pros. Rumor was that Shanahan drafted him as a favor to a friend.

4th rd) Olandis Gary, RB, 127th overall. One and a quarter good seasons and he hurt his knee and promptly screwed the pooch.

6 picks in the top 127 picks!

To be fair Shanahan did draft David Bowens, Desmond Clark and Billy Miller later in the draft. Right where some would suggest Shanahan should do some damage in this years draft.

This was the begining of his obsession with turning LB's into DE's, and WR's into TE's!

If you want a TE, draft a TE!

[maruske845]

well 1st of all you got to have faith or get off these boards


and i always have faith
he gets great players everyone in my mind
member D.J. hes great
foster-continues to get better

and how about all them running backs



and the league is more about the vets...not the rookies


IMO

[stnzed]

You liked there previous drafts, but you think they need help at every position but LB. Is that what you wrote, or am I making that up? That is what I read, 10 times!!! I read it really slow, and it said the same thing all 10 times.


What I said was that they could use some help at every position except LB!

Let me break it down for you:

QB: Really need some veteran back-up help. But that is a tall order. There aren't that many Jeff Garcia's out there. So another young guy might be good if the right guy is there.

RB: I think most of us agree that they need/could use a no1 back.

FB: Cecil Sapp is coming off an injury. And both he and Kyle Johnson are UFA's.

WR: Walker is the only certainty here. I like Marshall as much as the next. And Rod Smith is one of my all-time favorites. I really think they could use some more help. Kircus, Morgan, Hixon? Come on!

TE: You got Scheffler and...and....and....Stephen Alexander? I'm not saying he needs to be replaced but he's not a key cog that's for sure. He's a good player.

OL: Jeez. Where should I start? Age and injury are the biggest reasons for the need for a player or two. I honestly do know what to make of the back-ups. I wouldn't be suprised to see the Broncos do something here.

DL: I like Warren as a starter. I like Lang/Ekuban but the Broncos should look to find a better long term answer at DE over the next two years. Dumervil is a good situational pass rusher. I like Myers as a back-up. I'm not a big fan of Veal. DE and DT are needs right now!

LB: Williams, Wilson and Gold are the best unit in the league. Webster was ok last year in the SF game. This just isn't a priority right now (knock on wood).

CB: There is Champ, who is the best in the league. I like Foxworth a lot. I like what little I've seen of Paymah. That's only three corners. Cox an fill in here but....

S: Lynch is titts. I love him! But he can't play forever. Maybe this could be his last year, Idk. Ferguson is coming off a season ending injury as is Brandon. Cox can fill in here too. But the future is gaining fast!

PK: Elam is getting old...And by old, I mean old even for a kicker. He can't run to the sideline without tweaking a hammy. Again the future is gaining fast. I would love to see the Broncos take Crosby keep 3 kickers as Elam rides into the sunset, but I know that is a pipedream!

P: Ernster is erratic. He is totally replacable. (Sepulveda or Podlesh would be nice)

I'm not saying the Broncos have needs everywhere. I'm saying almost anything is possible in this years draft and free agency!

Read this slowly and don't bother putting words in my mouth.

I'm not saying the whole team sucks, ok people. I'm saying there is only one position that is set for next season. Meaning there are no roster spots available at the position.

[stnzed]

well 1st of all you got to have faith or get off these boards


and i always have faith
he gets great players everyone in my mind
member D.J. hes great
foster-continues to get better

and how about all them running backs



and the league is more about the vets...not the rookies


IMO


Please! Your delusional. I'm not even sure this is in english....And I'm not going anywhere homer!

If you don't like what I have to say find the "Ignore" button like everyone else! :D

[hardcorebronco]

To get an idea regarding Shanny's tendencies in the draft let's look at the history during Mike's tenure:

1995 - 1st pick Denver had was in 4th round... they chose OT Jamie Brown from
Florida A&M. Other noteables: Terrell Davis (6th) & B.Chamberlain (7th)
1996 - #1 pick (15th overall) Denver selected LB John Mobley. CB Tory James 2nd
round pick.
1997 - #1 pick (28th overall) Denver slect DE Trevor Pryce out of Clemson.
1998 - {Shanny's first really bad draft} #1 Pick Denver selects WR Marcus Nash
with the final pick of 1st round. CB Samari Rolle & CB Brian Kelly go in
2nd round... In 3rd round, with 91st pick Denver takes B.Griese, Hines
Ward is the next pick.
1999 - #1 Pick (31st overall) Denver selects LB Al Wislon.
2000 - #1 Pick (15th overall) Denver selects CB Deltha O'Neil (Shaun Alexander
is taken four picks later but we get Mike Anderson in 6th at #189).
2001 - #1 Pick (24th overall) Denver selects CB Willie MIddlebrooks (In the next
20 picks went Chad Johnson, Drew Brees, Algae Crumpler, Reggie Wayne,
Todd Heap, Chris Chambers & Fred Smoot... Ouch!).
2002 - #1 Pick (19th pick) WR Ashley Lelie (take Clinton Portis in 2nd Round)
2003 - #1 Pick (20th pick) OT George Foster (passing LJ and Mcgahee) & with
#2 Pick (51st overall) Denver takes LB Terry Pierce (passing on Mike Doss
Anquan Boldin and Osi Umenyiora).
2004 - #1 Pick (17th overall) Denver slects LB D.J. Williams from the "U."
2005 - With the 56th pick (2nd round) Denver takes the belated and beloved
Darrent Williams.
2006 - #1 Pick (11th overall) Denver selects Jay Cutler

I think this post can be completely skewed, by pointing out who we drafted, and then showing stars that we passed on. The "rough stretch" of the drafting years where no starters or playmakers evolved can be chalked up to the team needs. Drafting D. O'Neal and passing on shaun alexander? Well unless my head is screwed on backwards, Denver had a guy named Terrell Davis, we were set in that position. Mike Anderson was meant to be a change of pace, third down bust through the line back to spell T.D. Now why would we have wanted another back like Shaun, who played just like T.D.? The Broncos drafted need not talent. (maybe this isnt the best drafting meathod, but more on that later)

Drafting OT. George Foster instead of L.T. and Mc Gahee!?!?!?!? That has to be the worst example, why would we risk a high pick on those fellows when we saw the damage to be done with C. Portis!?!? Drafting L.T. would have been illogical, because we were perfectly fine with Portis. Instead we hoped getting a bigger than normal OT would aid our running game on the outside, and help the pass protection to give the Qb more time to throw. Idea: Bigger OT = Fewer time the small o-line gets pushed back by bigger DE's. Obviously this hasnt worked like expected, but there was a meathod behind the madness.

"Denver selects CB Willie MIddlebrooks (In the next 20 picks went Chad Johnson, Drew Brees, Algae Crumpler, Reggie Wayne, Todd Heap, Chris Chambers & Fred Smoot... Ouch!)." ohhh Boy....
Chad Johnson, Reggie Wayne, Chris Chambers = When you got Rod Smith and Easy Ed, and hoping Eddie Kennison grows up, why would you take these fellows so early in the draft? Remember we draft by need...
Drew Brees = Up until this point in Broncomania history, Griese was still making young qb mistakes, he was still supposed to be great one day. His season of absolute wreckage was still to come. No need to take Brees at this point in time.
Alge Crumpler = Well, Dwayne Carswell was looking very promising and Desmond Clark was supposed to be a star. In retrospect it is easy to criticize this part. But remember at this point in time no one could see the future at this position.
Fred Smoot = Well call it talent mistake or what, Many had Middlebrooks from Minnisota over Smoot from Mississippi State. Call it what you will, mistake or bad scouting... Many considered the faster more agile CB's over the Physical stronger CB's at this time still. Who knows? Still there was a need at CB and the scouts said we prefer Middlebrooks.

You can very easily put this list on any other team's Forum, and say you got so, and so is average at best, and look who you missed on! The whole point is we drafted according to need, many times taking players above where they should have been drafted. Ohh well, these past three years show that Shanahan has revised his meathods to not taking the best talent availible, but to the point of saying we need help, here here and here. When our pick comes, we take the best talent at those positions that's there. Example: "Maybe the d-line is more of a need, ohh well there is a stud rb, and we need that too, Drafted RB." That is the drafting meathod employed in the recent years, and it works! Give Shanahan a break, he isnt perfect and will make a mistake from time to time. The point is the get over it, and move on, learning from the past, and building for the future.

*This was a pertinate point made by: hardcorebronco, the 20th day of the first month, year of our Lord, 2007.* :salute:

[Freestyle]

I understand, but the last two drafts to this point have been solid. Maybe Shanahan and his staff have finally learned to evaluate the draft talent. Or maybe he's trusting their evaluations more.
That's true he's had success.

I can't see myself leaning one way or the other. He's had some GREAT moves (last year), some luck (TD), and some terrible moves (Terry Pierce, Middlebroken, Lelie).

I'm hoping for the best, and he has shown that he can hit the bullseye once in a while. He's also shown the ability to reach and nab players he could have had a round or 3 later.

I'm pretty much on the fence on this subject :)

[fraguela09]

I think this post can be completely skewed, by pointing out who we drafted, and then showing stars that we passed on. The "rough stretch" of the drafting years where no starters or playmakers evolved can be chalked up to the team needs. Drafting D. O'Neal and passing on shaun alexander? Well unless my head is screwed on backwards, Denver had a guy named Terrell Davis, we were set in that position. Mike Anderson was meant to be a change of pace, third down bust through the line back to spell T.D. Now why would we have wanted another back like Shaun, who played just like T.D.? The Broncos drafted need not talent. (maybe this isnt the best drafting meathod, but more on that later)

Drafting OT. George Foster instead of L.T. and Mc Gahee!?!?!?!? That has to be the worst example, why would we risk a high pick on those fellows when we saw the damage to be done with C. Portis!?!? Drafting L.T. would have been illogical, because we were perfectly fine with Portis. Instead we hoped getting a bigger than normal OT would aid our running game on the outside, and help the pass protection to give the Qb more time to throw. Idea: Bigger OT = Fewer time the small o-line gets pushed back by bigger DE's. Obviously this hasnt worked like expected, but there was a meathod behind the madness.

"Denver selects CB Willie MIddlebrooks (In the next 20 picks went Chad Johnson, Drew Brees, Algae Crumpler, Reggie Wayne, Todd Heap, Chris Chambers & Fred Smoot... Ouch!)." ohhh Boy....
Chad Johnson, Reggie Wayne, Chris Chambers = When you got Rod Smith and Easy Ed, and hoping Eddie Kennison grows up, why would you take these fellows so early in the draft? Remember we draft by need...
Drew Brees = Up until this point in Broncomania history, Griese was still making young qb mistakes, he was still supposed to be great one day. His season of absolute wreckage was still to come. No need to take Brees at this point in time.
Alge Crumpler = Well, Dwayne Carswell was looking very promising and Desmond Clark was supposed to be a star. In retrospect it is easy to criticize this part. But remember at this point in time no one could see the future at this position.
Fred Smoot = Well call it talent mistake or what, Many had Middlebrooks from Minnisota over Smoot from Mississippi State. Call it what you will, mistake or bad scouting... Many considered the faster more agile CB's over the Physical stronger CB's at this time still. Who knows? Still there was a need at CB and the scouts said we prefer Middlebrooks.

You can very easily put this list on any other team's Forum, and say you got so, and so is average at best, and look who you missed on! The whole point is we drafted according to need, many times taking players above where they should have been drafted. Ohh well, these past three years show that Shanahan has revised his meathods to not taking the best talent availible, but to the point of saying we need help, here here and here. When our pick comes, we take the best talent at those positions that's there. Example: "Maybe the d-line is more of a need, ohh well there is a stud rb, and we need that too, Drafted RB." That is the drafting meathod employed in the recent years, and it works! Give Shanahan a break, he isnt perfect and will make a mistake from time to time. The point is the get over it, and move on, learning from the past, and building for the future.

*This was a pertinate point made by: hardcorebronco, the 20th day of the first month, year of our Lord, 2007.* :salute:

By posting this draft history I was just pointing out the obvious... WE ARE BETTER OFF TAKING BEST AVAILABLE PLAYER in 1st round, instead of filling a need. I believe you fill a need by drafting depth at that position AFTER first two rounds. I believe you should use your 1st pick (definately) on BAP... possibly even your second pick...

Also, I copied this post from a previous thread I started trying to illustrate Shanny's draft history to show his inclinations and proclivities... I tossed in some observations I thought interesting... in no way was I accusing Shanny or blaming him. I wanted to see what positions Shanny went for with first pick and which positions he avoided... That's it!

Anyway, I was just proving the point that when it comes to top 50 players in draft a team is best suited to ALWAYS draft best player on board, not fitting need. Fill need by taking depth round 3 and on...

[hardcorebronco]

By posting this draft history I was just pointing out the obvious... WE ARE BETTER OFF TAKING BEST AVAILABLE PLAYER in 1st round, instead of filling a need. I believe you fill a need by drafting depth at that position AFTER first two rounds. I believe you should use your 1st pick (definately) on BAP... possibly even your second pick...

Also, I copied this post from a previous thread I started trying to illustrate Shanny's draft history to show his inclinations and proclivities... I tossed in some observations I thought interesting... in no way was I accusing Shanny or blaming him. I wanted to see what positions Shanny went for with first pick and which positions he avoided... That's it!

Anyway, I was just proving the point that when it comes to top 50 players in draft a team is best suited to ALWAYS draft best player on board, not fitting need. Fill need by taking depth round 3 and on...

To true, what your post did was show in many cases why drafting the best player availible is a good draft strategy. Not to criticize, but that isnt always the way to go, only for the obvious reasons like, Your team has a franchise back - you wouldnt take another one even if its the best talent. Or, you have a good qb that your satisfied with, why spend another 1st rounder on a qb? But ofcourse apply reason, say your team needs a CB, DE, DT, WR - in importance of that order. But when its your pick in the first round the best availible player is a DT. Do you take the best Cb around or the best availible player in your list of needs aka the DT? the old shanahan would have taken the CB but i would argue the new Shanahan (last three drafts) would take the DT. So yah what you say makes sense in some cases, but no way you take a best talent availible if your team is solid in that area. :D

I think shanahan will do a fine job this offseason. Whereas he will spend most of his cap on his offense and rebuilding it for the future, he has expressed interest in solidifying the defense. There is a cap on players saleries, there is a lot more room to be made in a franchise to grab a great coach. Thats why the signing of our two newest D coaches is encouraging. I think we will see a new DE in the FA, a DT taken late on the first day in the draft, a 2 or 3 round DE and the rest of the picks to be spent on any of the following: O, OT, OG, WR, RB. (not in that order lol)

[Broncos88]

Complete faith, shanny is the man. :rockon:

[In-com-plete]

Do I have faith in Shanny & Co. this Draft? Not really. If they didn't ignore our biggest weakness year after year, I would have faith. But I completly lost it last year. Sure they had some good picks, but D-line was our glaring need...and they ignored it. AGAIN! I know I know, we got Elvis in the 4th. But IMO, that's not good enough.

[In-com-plete]

Heavens forbid the guy make mistskes!!! Get over it! Shanahan had to teach himself to draft, he wasnt responsible for that in San Fran or Oakland. (I think there is more to the draft than any of us who have never experienced it before realize.) He carried a major load as to what he wanted when it came to draft day and he had to learn. Some by success, some by hard lessons. Cut the guy some slack, he is learning and as a previous poster mention, Sundquist is helping significantly to add some reason and experience in deals, and options. No matter what, he is becoming a master, look beyond the draft. He has pulled in major players in the FA practically every offseason! he has also organized and pulled off sick and really unfair trades down on other teams. This guy is a offensive guru, but he had a young, and inexperienced squad for a majority of the season, and had to deal with a qb that acted like he wanted benched. Overall, his offensive production has been phenominal year in and year out. And yet the guy is criticized for not being a defensive mastermind like Bill Bellicheck. The whole "look at the situation he has created on the d-line" arguement cant hold any water. Seriously, the guy has had busts there, as everyone has, but he has also had some serious talent. Berry, Hayward, Pryce. These are guys who left us for money or were offered better deals. That cant be blamed on shannahan. There is a cap limit and sometimes you just cant afford to resign a player for what you expect to recieve in return. By the way, for as much criticism as the Browncos get, does anyone remember what we gave up for all those players? One average runningback. The rest were signed or packaged in the trade. Remember our lead sacker and pass rusher was hurt the whole season. I guess that was shanahan's fault to for not knowing that would happen. Kudos, goes to shanahan for trying to address the situation already. Atleast he knows he cant master defense and was willing to pay for someone to come in that does. I think too many people are expecting perfection here. Cutler/Plummer isnt Elway. Mike/Tatum arent Terrell Davis. Lynch isnt a Atwater. Carlile is not a Zimmerman. Pears/Foster arent a Lepsis. And Eukabon/Dumerville arent even a Pryce!!! Go figure, we arent perfect, and we never will be. Even the #1 seed in the AFC, aka the most complete team in the NFL, was beat in the divisional round of the playoffs. Ladies and Gentlemen, i have a news flash. There has never been and will never be a completely perfect all-star regular season team. It is really unrealistic to expect every hole/gap/weakness to be addressed and filled with a all-star. What i would really like to see is some slack cut out for our coaches and players. We shouldnt put unrealistic measures on these guys, i am hoping that we get a franchise back, a solid pass rusher, and a cover safety that isnt soft... and all the rest. but please? "Shanahan drafted a so and so 5 years ago and therefore isnt qualified to be a good drafting expert" is a very dumb statement. I would hate to see mile high city put mile high expectations on this organization. Dream? sure. Work, ofcourse! Try? always! But let's reserve some of this criticism until it becomes apparent that criticism is due. That time of criticism has not arrived for shanahan or his young offense, and fighting defense either. Criticism was due for Coyer, and possibly for other players that the organization feels are weak links. But please! Let's hope for the future and build from the past.
You have some good points.

But I would like to point out that Berry, Heyward, and Pryce were drafted on day 1. Add in Montae Reagor and Paul Toviessi and there's your complete list of first day D-line selections by Shanny & Co. 4 out of 5 is pretty damn good. But, the fact of the matter is Shanny has ignored the d-line early. With the exception of Elvis, I can't think of one single D-lineman taken in the 4th-7th rounds that's became something more than adequate.

[Tour]

I think it’s too easy criticize when you have already see the results, but you know, last year Shanny brought Jay Cutler and now we can became into a passing team (not that I’m completely happy with that).

I think that unless you have read my book “how to draft a future legend” you cannot never ever know who you are going to get, take an example; do you know which teams pass on Tom Brady the year he was drafted?... A: all. And another question: do you know what happen with Tim Couch? A: I don’t know and I don’t care, but you know who was drafted after him? A: Donovan McNabb.

Year after year I’m happy with the decisions of Shanny in the draft and the last year he was a genius manipulating the draft to get Jay Cutler and the same day Javon Walker. Which HC or GM can do that? you tell me because I don’t know.

He’s the man.

[hardcorebronco]

I think it’s too easy criticize when you have already see the results, but you know, last year Shanny brought Jay Cutler and now we can became into a passing team (not that I’m completely happy with that).

I think that unless you have read my book “how to draft a future legend” you cannot never ever know who you are going to get, take an example; do you know which teams pass on Tom Brady the year he was drafted?... A: all. And another question: do you know what happen with Tim Couch? A: I don’t know and I don’t care, but you know who was drafted after him? A: Donovan McNabb.

Year after year I’m happy with the decisions of Shanny in the draft and the last year he was a genius manipulating the draft to get Jay Cutler and the same day Javon Walker. Which HC or GM can do that? you tell me because I don’t know.

He’s the man.

Getting Cutler doesnt make us a passing team. We are simply placing new names over the old ones.
Cutler <-- Elway
Walker <-- Fomer Rod Smith (downfield reciever)
Rod Smith <-- Eddy Mac (not as physical, but a possesion reciever nonetheless)
Sheffler <-- Sharp
........ <-- Terrell Davis

Not that any of these guys are better than the old, or if they are its too early to tell, i simply think shanahan is filling the void, and trying to rebuild an offense that mirrors and plays like the offense of old. That is also why i feel shanahan will sign a de, and maybe a dt as well, in the FA. BUT he will look for that Franchise RB in the draft. Whoever Shanahan has destined that back to be. I think if he is willing to go up to 11 to take Cutler, he will go that distance to grab a RB. Cutler will not play Mini Payton in this offense but rather be a mobile accurate passer, that is a threat to prevent opposing defenses from putting 7-8 men in the box shutting down the run.

Both, from what we can tell. Shanahan plays a significant role with Ted Sundquist in roping in the Broncos they want. Shanahan more of the talent, needs analist and Sundquist more of the deals, contracts man. Together they are responsible for the draft and offseason aquisitions. They complement each other, its hard to blame one or the other for a move. Mainly Shanahan takes the brunt because sometimes talent falls through or or needs go unfilled. Not too many critics on Sundquists' back for a lucrative contract being made, only cap management from time to time... :D

[jbones733]

i certainly do, last years was one of best i can remember, alot of promise, w alot of picks, can really set us up to be good for a long time

[Plummer#16]

Does anyone think that Shanahan will draft anyone with talent? I hope he doesn't pass up a good oppurtunity to draft someone who is worth a damn.

[Colorado69]

You must think you can do better than the summation of a group of intelligent and experienced professionals. Stay a fan, as you have no idea what you are complaining about. Sounds like just another spoiled Bronco fan.

[lancane]

You must think you can do better than the summation of a group of intelligent and experienced professionals. Stay a fan, as you have no idea what you are complaining about. Sounds like just another spoiled Bronco fan.

Get em', sic em' C69! :D

LMAO...well, you know it could be a kid just trying to get his *** whipped quickly on here so he can lick his wounds and contribute!

:D

[Bronco in UT]

Whaste of a thread, go away

[Plummer#16]

Sorry about this threadit wasn't really me. It was my friend who thinks he knows what hes talking about.