Antonio Pittman Straight Up...

[mxbronco13]

Ok guys I have heard too much so now I must make a case. Pittman looks like the kind of running back Denver is looking for who can carry the load. So far with some prospect wantings:

Marshawn Lynch - doubt he is a woman beater but his fancy little spins and jukes wont work in the NFL and he has injury prone feet and ankles
Adrien Peterson - just stop... he will be gone
Michael Bush - looks good but huge risk in size and not knowing how he has recovered from the broken leg
Chris Brown - maybe a good rotation runner but not what denver is looking for in a franchise back
Lorenzo Booker - too many questions of stamina
Kenny Irons - great power runner but lacks durability in big games
Tony Hunt - not powerful.. senior bowl proved he needs huge holes to make plays
Brandon Jackson - might be a good late round pickup.. decent in all areas but not great in any certain one.. good overall RB

Antonio Pittman + 15 lbs = Franchise Runningback
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMhonqcbXv8

[GridironChamp]

Not being able to criticize Pittman lets me know right there that you are already
set on who you think is the best option, there is no reason for discussing it because
if you cant even criticize the guy there is no way to have this conversation...

BTW Brandon Jackson and Lynch will both better than Pittman.

[hardcorebronco]

Not being able to criticize Pittman lets me know right there that you are already
set on who you think is the best option, there is no reason for discussing it because
if you cant even criticize the guy there is no way to have this conversation...

BTW Brandon Jackson and Lynch will both better than Pittman.

I would put irons above Pittman too. Some of his runs were pitiful, not so much good running as it was horrible defense...

Defenders out of position, over pursuing, missing tackles that you dont have any business missing.... But then with some of the teams they played what do you expect.

I think the arguement of Lynch's spins not working in the NFL is just as applicable here. He wont run over people like that in the NFL either... even with the 15 extra pounds. I do like his effort and motor though. :D

[mxbronco13]

BTW Brandon Jackson and Lynch will both better than Pittman.

funny it seems like you did the exact same thing... i seriously doubt lynch will get far in the NFL unless he is lucky because his twig ankles will get snapped.. he has lots of talent but his style of running will not work.. and how can you say Jackson is better than Pittman? i mean come on just watch some of the highlights of both players.

[GridironChamp]

funny it seems like you did the exact same thing... i seriously doubt lynch will get far in the NFL unless he is lucky because his twig ankles will get snapped.. he has lots of talent but his style of running will not work.. and how can you say Jackson is better than Pittman? i mean come on just watch some of the highlights of both players.

See, unlike you I have watched Jackson and your Pittman highlights, i highly doubt
you watched any high quality Jackson highlights to say he is not real goot at any
thing. Jackson seems to have the best vision of all the RBs this year, and he makes
great 1 cut moves. He also doesnt power through every run and has a tendency
to let angles be taken against him very easily. If you break down the middle of the
field you angle across the field away from the defense, he will just continue down
the middle.


Lynch you claim wont be good because of his agile running style, did Reggie Bush
do terrible last year? Now Lynch doesnt juke like Bush but Lynch has carried more
of the load and Lynch has much more power than Bush... Although Bush runs much
more powerful now than before.

[lancane]

While Lynch and Peterson both have had comparisons done to other NFL All-Stars, such as Thomlinson and ****erson, Irons who is considered a possible 1st Rounder with stock rising has been compared to both Davis and Portis, while I know many fans have favorites...do not discount that he has drawn comparisons to both of the best backs in Denver's recent memory.

I agree though -- Peterson, Lynch, Irons and Jackson are likely to surpass anything over Pittman, he is still a better option then Hunt or Bush, but I am not sold he is a 'premier' capable back, feature capable possibly...but I obviously believe Denver will take Irons at this point, the Jets and Baltimore are two teams favored to nab him in round one, Denver will overlook Lynch even if he fell now...I think Irons is a better option and the comparisons to Davis and Portis will make Shanahan pull the trigger as well.

[stnzed]

While Lynch and Peterson both have had comparisons done to other NFL All-Stars, such as Thomlinson and ****erson, Irons who is considered a possible 1st Rounder with stock rising has been compared to both Davis and Portis, while I know many fans have favorites...do not discount that he has drawn comparisons to both of the best backs in Denver's recent memory.

I agree though -- Peterson, Lynch, Irons and Jackson are likely to surpass anything over Pittman, he is still a better option then Hunt or Bush, but I am not sold he is a 'premier' capable back, feature capable possibly...but I obviously believe Denver will take Irons at this point, the Jets and Baltimore are two teams favored to nab him in round one, Denver will overlook Lynch even if he fell now...I think Irons is a better option and the comparisons to Davis and Portis will make Shanahan pull the trigger as well.

Is he big enough?

.

[mxbronco13]

See, unlike you I have watched Jackson and your Pittman highlights, i highly doubt
you watched any high quality Jackson highlights to say he is not real goot at any
thing. Jackson seems to have the best vision of all the RBs this year, and he makes
great 1 cut moves. He also doesnt power through every run and has a tendency
to let angles be taken against him very easily. If you break down the middle of the
field you angle across the field away from the defense, he will just continue down
the middle.


Lynch you claim wont be good because of his agile running style, did Reggie Bush
do terrible last year? Now Lynch doesnt juke like Bush but Lynch has carried more
of the load and Lynch has much more power than Bush... Although Bush runs much
more powerful now than before.

first off i never said jackson had no skill i just said he isnt as good of a runner for Denver as Pittman is... and Reggie Bush had a 3.8 yd avrg with a Long of 18 yards rushing

[GridironChamp]

first off i never said jackson had no skill i just said he isnt as good of a runner for Denver as Pittman is... and Reggie Bush had a 3.8 yd avrg with a Long of 18 yards rushing

He also scored what 8 TDs? :confused:

RBs are allowed to catch the ball.


Also, i always thought you'd do good in the Denver run scheme with a 1-cut style,
like what Irons and Jackson are good at.

[lancane]

Is he big enough?

.

He is pretty much a Portis clone but a bit more muscular. He has bigger guns then Portis, which helps to carry the ball in a more secure fashion along with strength to take hits and keep a hold of the ball. However -- for weight to height ratio and so on, he matches Portis well and give him a year or two and he will likely be near 210lbs., Irons in my opinion will be a big surprise in the NFL, I know some think he is not built good enough or is not strong enough...but many Auburn fans and their rivals called him 'Iron Horse'...if that does not fit here, then nothing will.

[stnzed]

He is pretty much a Portis clone but a bit more muscular. He has bigger guns then Portis, which helps to carry the ball in a more secure fashion along with strength to take hits and keep a hold of the ball. However -- for weight to height ratio and so on, he matches Portis well and give him a year or two and he will likely be near 210lbs., Irons in my opinion will be a big surprise in the NFL, I know some think he is not built good enough or is not strong enough...but many Auburn fans and their rivals called him 'Iron Horse'...if that does not fit here, then nothing will.


Poorti$ was the same size coming out of college. That would be something if Irons were similar....Minus the attitude of course! (And the durality questions)

:D

[BigBroncLove]

He is pretty much a Portis clone but a bit more muscular. He has bigger guns then Portis, which helps to carry the ball in a more secure fashion along with strength to take hits and keep a hold of the ball. However -- for weight to height ratio and so on, he matches Portis well and give him a year or two and he will likely be near 210lbs., Irons in my opinion will be a big surprise in the NFL, I know some think he is not built good enough or is not strong enough...but many Auburn fans and their rivals called him 'Iron Horse'...if that does not fit here, then nothing will.

I just dont see what you do personally Lancane in Irons.

I've said that Irons impressed me at the Senior Bowl with his individual effort. All the same, I don't think he will be able to break tackles in the NFL nearly as well as he did in College, and that is one of his strong points.

Also, because he is so ripped, you have to wonder how much more development his frame can really take. I think Portis has more speed personally too.

However, he does show plenty of potnetial and I'm not prepared to say Irons wont make it in the NFL. I'm just not sold on him.

[hardcorebronco]

He is pretty much a Portis clone but a bit more muscular. He has bigger guns then Portis, which helps to carry the ball in a more secure fashion along with strength to take hits and keep a hold of the ball. However -- for weight to height ratio and so on, he matches Portis well and give him a year or two and he will likely be near 210lbs., Irons in my opinion will be a big surprise in the NFL, I know some think he is not built good enough or is not strong enough...but many Auburn fans and their rivals called him 'Iron Horse'...if that does not fit here, then nothing will.

Lacane, the more you speak of Irons the more i love the guy. After seeing him in the SEC and studying his running styles the more i think he will fit this scheme. I say we take him at 21. I dont think Okoye will be there by then, and i think we can get a good DT in the second. Grab a De like Kerny in the FA and thats three big needs addressed.

*climbs on the Kenny Irons bandwagon....* Woot Woot!!! Giddeyup horsey! We got some teams to beat!

[lancane]

Poorti$ was the same size coming out of college. That would be something if Irons were similar....Minus the attitude of course!

:D

Kenny and David are both light hearted, they are great spiritual leaders on and off the field and are known to lighten the gloom moods in the lockerroom. He is like Davis and Sharpe mixed, humble and yet quite funny. Irons also has had to work for everything from the JC ranks on up, so he is not afraid of hard work, he is smart and intentive on getting better, he is a team player.

So in my mind he is the perfect fit for Denver, he is a one cut back, north and south runner, he runs much bigger then he is and he fights for his teammates and wants to make a team better, not be better then his team. I think him and Mike Bell would compliment one another because they are very similar in attitude and team spirit, they are both hardworkers and had to prove themselves time and time again.

[BIG HOUSE]

you do realize that just because someone is ripped that they can still put on decent amounts of weight right?

[lancane]

I just dont see what you do personally Lancane in Irons.

I've said that Irons impressed me at the Senior Bowl with his individual effort. All the same, I don't think he will be able to break tackles in the NFL nearly as well as he did in College, and that is one of his strong points.

Also, because he is so ripped, you have to wonder how much more development his frame can really take. I think Portis has more speed personally too.

However, he does show plenty of potnetial and I'm not prepared to say Irons wont make it in the NFL. I'm just not sold on him.

Same was said about Davis, Portis, Q and Mike Bell, they will not make it, not be able to break tackles and yadda, yadda...Mike Bell sure proved it and became our 3rd Down and Powerback in most situations. Portis was figured to be a bust by many analysts, but proved he was a premier back, I just hate his attitude. Irons will prove many wrong, he may not be the next Thomlinson...but he will be in my eyes the next Barber or Portis.

;)

[BigBroncLove]

you do realize that just because someone is ripped that they can still put on decent amounts of weight right?

I do, but go to the NFL, the US Army, any place where physical activity is a must, this is what you'll learn.

When an individual has low Body fat content and high muscle content it makes it difficult for the body to build as easily. You have to put a lot more nutrients into your system to continue to build.

Since you don't actually build muscle (you don't grow muscle. Muscle cells become larger and thats how you build muscle. Muscle is strengthened by very small tears that heal and create a higher degree of strength on a cell to cell basis) you "inflate it" a great deal of energy is required to "inflate" more muscle into weight.

I do understand you can build if your alrady well built. But that also depends on white and red muscle cells, energy intake, and tons of other things, and from a PT standpoint, a guy who is as cut as Irons is tend to have more difficultly building then someone who has higher fat content.

The question is, did you know this? I doubt it.

[BigBroncLove]

Same was said about Davis, Portis, Q and Mike Bell, they will not make it, not be able to break tackles and yadda, yadda...Mike Bell sure proved it and became our 3rd Down and Powerback in most situations. Portis was figured to be a bust by many analysts, but proved he was a premier back, I just hate his attitude. Irons will prove many wrong, he may not be the next Thomlinson...but he will be in my eyes the next Barber or Portis.

;)

If we get him, I hope your right :D.

[GridironChamp]

I do, but go to the NFL, the US Army, any place where physical activity is a must, this is what you'll learn.

When an individual has low Body fat content and high muscle content it makes it difficult for the body to build as easily. You have to put a lot more nutrients into your system to continue to build.

Since you don't actually build muscle (you don't grow muscle. Muscle cells become larger and thats how you build muscle. Muscle is strengthened by very small tears that heal and create a higher degree of strength on a cell to cell basis) you "inflate it" a great deal of energy is required to grow more muscle into weight.

I do understand you can build if your alrady well built. But that also depends on white and red muscle cells, energy intake, and tons of other things, and from a PT standpoint, a guy who is as cut as Irons is tend to have more difficult building then someone who has higher fat content.

The question is, did you know this? I doubt it.

Hell i wish you were my anitomy teacher ;) Assuming that would be anitomy(sp?)

[lancane]

you do realize that just because someone is ripped that they can still put on decent amounts of weight right?

Correct Big, well said. Actually adding weight is easier because muscle weighs more then fat, usually someone like Irons who is ripped adds it - burns into muscle much easier then it would for say Dayne or Bush, while they may still be strong...the fact one is ripped does not hinder them from adding weight, actually they add better weight because it is more muscle then fat in the end. Though the nutrition area is a bit more difficult, the natural release of proteins in a muscular system builds muscle faster, the correct balance of amino acids and those proteins to one whom is healthy and ripped can and will add muscle weight slower, but faster then one whom is overweight or not ripped because they tend to add more sugar based fats cause the burn of their system is different because less muscle.

[BigBroncLove]

Hell i wish you were my anitomy teacher ;) Assuming that would be anitomy(sp?)

Its Physical Trainer knowledge. It is taught in Biology and Physiology at the college level as well.

[BigBroncLove]

Correct Big, well said. Actually adding weight is easier because muscle weighs more then fat, usually someone like Irons who is ripped adds it - burns into muscle much easier then it would for say Dayne or Bush, while they may still be strong...the fact one is ripped does not hinder them from adding weight, actually they add better weight because it is more muscle then fat in the end. Though the nutrition area is a bit more difficult, the natural release of proteins in a muscular system builds muscle faster, the correct balance of amino acids and those proteins to one whom is healthy and ripped can and will add muscle weight slower, but faster then one whom is overweight or not ripped because they tend to add more sugar based fats cause the burn of their system is different because less muscle.

read above :P

[lancane]

I do, but go to the NFL, the US Army, any place where physical activity is a must, this is what you'll learn.

When an individual has low Body fat content and high muscle content it makes it difficult for the body to build as easily. You have to put a lot more nutrients into your system to continue to build.

Since you don't actually build muscle (you don't grow muscle. Muscle cells become larger and thats how you build muscle. Muscle is strengthened by very small tears that heal and create a higher degree of strength on a cell to cell basis) you "inflate it" a great deal of energy is required to "inflate" more muscle into weight.

I do understand you can build if your alrady well built. But that also depends on white and red muscle cells, energy intake, and tons of other things, and from a PT standpoint, a guy who is as cut as Irons is tend to have more difficultly building then someone who has higher fat content.

The question is, did you know this? I doubt it.

The US Army while strict has sure let some heavy more overweight soldiers in the field, not the best comparison there BB, it was once vastly different, but their nutrition is based on a more loose scale then say the Marines or the Navy, both which require more strict health regulations and physical training to the US Army.

;)

[stretch14]

Can people please stop comparing Pittman to Portis. I agree Pittman would be a good fit as would most running backs in denver but you can't compare pittman to portis. Okay they are the same size and weight. Do you guys remember what portis ran at the combine i think it was like a 4.42. He is one of the fastes running backs in the league so u can't compare him to pittman.

[BigBroncLove]

The US Army while strict has sure let some heavy more overweight soldiers in the field, not the best comparison there BB, it was once vastly different, but their nutrition is based on a more loose scale then say the Marines or the Navy, both which require more strict health regulations and physical training to the US Army.

;)

Oh, I know you're not taking about my big green machine that way.

You must be talking about quartermaster or some other civilian job in a military uniform.

The U.S. infantry is very strict on weight and PT. If you do not meet the minimum unit requirments (much higher then the low end of the U.S. Army PT test. In my unit it was 14:00 2 mile run, 65 push ups in 2 minutes, and 70 situps in 2 minutes. Really though, if you didnt score a 300 you needed work.) you are put into a special PT unit that every evening while in garrison when everyone goes back to their homes or barracks, the PT unit goes to the PT field to increase their physical aptitude.

Now recent army recruitment techniques, such as allowing ASVAB phase 4 testers (really really stupid people) to go to basic training, in which a greater majority are pushed through basic since most CO's in TRADOC want everyman to get through basic and then thes phase 4 testers are almost always immediately kicked out of the unit because they pose a substantial risk in getting fellow soldiers killed with their mistakes. I will admit recent recruitment has dulled some of the edge in the armies sword, but none the less, infantry units remain finely tuned sharp machines who are expected to meet the highest of the armies standards.

[lancane]

Oh, I know you're not taking about my big green machine that way.

You must be talking about quartermaster or some other civilian job in a military uniform.

The U.S. infantry is very strict on weight and PT. If you do not meet the minimum unit requirments (much higher then the low end of the U.S. Army PT test. In my unit it was 14:00 2 mile run, 65 push ups in 2 minutes, and 70 situps in 2 minutes. Really though, if you didnt score a 300 you needed work.) you are put into a special PT unit that every evening while in garrison when everyone goes back to their homes or barracks, the PT unit goes to the gym to increase their physical aptitude.

Now recent army recruitment techniques, such as allowing ASVAB phase 4 testers (really really stupid people) to go to basic training, in which a greater majority are pushed through basic since most CO's in TRADOC want everyman to get through basic and then immediately kicked out of the unit because they pose a substantial risk in getting fellow soldiers killed with their mistakes. I will admit recent recruitment has dulled some of the edge in the armies sword, but none the less, infantry units remain finely tuned sharp machines who are expected to meet the highest of the armies standards.

I was talking about them! ;)

I am not saying all US Army personnel are that way, but you have to admit besides units like recon, rangers and so on, the value of physical balance has dropped, I think more so because a lack of recruits as you said they are not as strict in requirements, but when you see a whole unit of overweight privates then you get the feeling the standard has become clouded. I am not anti-army, actually I was bound for service many years ago, but they could not except me cause of a football injury, I am higher on the US Army then the Marines or Navy and the Air Force, but the point I am stating is that if you look carefully to the men and women in the army today, the standards are not as high as it was ten years ago, unlike the Navy and Marines which have kept the same standard, and we all know the Air Force has no standards except for good grades!

;)

[lancane]

Can people please stop comparing Pittman to Portis. I agree Pittman would be a good fit as would most running backs in denver but you can't compare pittman to portis. Okay they are the same size and weight. Do you guys remember what portis ran at the combine i think it was like a 4.42. He is one of the fastes running backs in the league so u can't compare him to pittman.

Pittman to Portis? I compared Irons to Portis, not Pittman...I am sure maybe someone else did. But get over it, comparing is a natural element to measuring up the tangibles of any future or current NFL athlete. Irons has many saying he reminds them of Portis, that is a fact...deal with it. I think so as well, just Irons has a better attitude and is actually a better team player then Portis.

:coffee:

[BigBroncLove]

I was talking about them! ;)

I am not saying all US Army personnel are that way, but you have to admit besides units like recon, rangers and so on, the value of physical balance has dropped, I think more so because a lack of recruits as you said they are not as strict in requirements, but when you see a whole unit of overweight privates then you get the feeling the standard has become clouded. I am not anti-army, actually I was bound for service many years ago, but they could not except me cause of a football injury, I am higher on the US Army then the Marines or Navy and the Air Force, but the point I am stating is that if you look carefully to the men and women in the army today, the standards are not as high as it was ten years ago, unlike the Navy and Marines which have kept the same standard, and we all know the Air Force has no standards except for good grades!

;)

The Marines, yes, they are the most difficult units to get into, and the most brainwashed as well :P.

Navy.... um no. I spent time with plenty of Navy who went through to Airborne School and Air Assault School for different things, and the greater majority of them do not have the same physical abilities as you see in Army and Core men. Sure, you have your select few, but PT is not nearly as rigerous in the Navy (especially on certien ships where areas are confined) then in the Army or NAvy.

And no, regular army infantry units, Airborne units, a lot of Armored units, and even Riggers are held to extremely high standards of Physical training, not only Ranger, SF, Snipers, and Sappers (yes, as far as toughness goes Sapper school is considered to even rival SEAL. The U.S. Defense department reviews achools on a bi-yearly basis and Sapper is considered one of the toughest naton wide, though Delta isn't even in the books).

I'm sorry but I see these boys plenty (still plenty of buddies in the airborne and rangers) and they are rough tough and every bit as killing machines as their Marine counterparts.

Obviously your a Navy or MArines guy (whether you yourself were in it, or a family memeber) so we will never agree on this subject. Please go to nay of the great Army Bases (Benning, Bragg, Campbell, or Drumm) and you will know what I'm talking about.

[DenBronx]

man...some of you are blinder than a bat. you wouldnt reconize talent if it slapped you in the face then took a S$%! on your front porch.

marshawn lynch should never be compared to the likes of pittman. pittman is ONE demensional!!!
could you be any lamer to categorize lynch as one demensional? you said he only is a juke em jive em style back. he is a P-O-W-E-R-B-A-C-K, something that pittman is not! lynch is tri-demensional he not only is a north, south powerback he also can block and play threat at wr too. lynch actually tries to punish you when he hits you...pittman likes to avoid contact and this wont work in denver.

bottom line is pittman will not fit our system.

we need to realize that lynch is not out of reach come draft day. we need to give a couple of picks to get lynch...maybe toss in tatum (good because we lose his contract) and there you have it. why is this so hard? lynch would be a beast in denver.

[lancane]

The Marines, yes, they are the most difficult units to get into, and the most brainwashed as well :P.

Navy.... um no. I spent time with plenty of Navy who went through to Airborne School and Air Assault School for different things, and the greater majority of them do not have the same physical abilities as you see in Army and Core men. Sure, you have your select few, but PT is not nearly as rigerous in the Navy (especially on certien ships where areas are confined) then in the Army or NAvy.

And no, regular army infantry units, Airborne units, a lot of Armored units, and even Riggers are held to extremely high standards of Physical training, not only Ranger, SF, Snipers, and Sappers (yes, as far as toughness goes Sapper school is considered to even rival SEAL. The U.S. Defense department reviews achools on a bi-yearly basis and Sapper is considered one of the toughest naton wide, though Delta isn't even in the books).

I'm sorry but I see these boys plenty (still plenty of buddies in the airborne and rangers) and they are rough tough and every bit as killing machines as their Marine counterparts.

Obviously your a Navy or MArines guy (whether you yourself were in it, or a family memeber) so we will never agree on this subject. Please go to nay of the great Army Bases (Benning, Bragg, Campbell, or Drumm) and you will know what I'm talking about.

Hmmm... How did we turn this thread into a military thread...lol. I actually am not bias, father and grandfather were Marines, stepfather was a Ranger, uncle was a Ranger, cousin was in the Navy as a gunship specialist and I was joining the US Army, so do not take offense by what I am stating, it is an open observation of what I have seen, there are plenty of good soldiers, I just feel the standard has laxed and the Army in whole is not to blame.

Now back on the subject at hand, the fact we are talking size should mean little due to Portis and of course Barber, but muscle wise Irons surpases both Portis and Barber, he is stronger and far more muscular, though the weight and frame is similar.

[BigBroncLove]

Hmmm... How did we turn this thread into a military thread...lol. I actually am not bias, father and grandfather were Marines, stepfather was a Ranger, uncle was a Ranger, cousin was in the Navy as a gunship specialist and I was joining the US Army, so do not take offense by what I am stating, it is an open observation of what I have seen, there are plenty of good soldiers, I just feel the standard has laxed and the Army in whole is not to blame.

Now back on the subject at hand, the fact we are talking size should mean little due to Portis and of course Barber, but muscle wise Irons surpases both Portis and Barber, he is stronger and far more muscular, though the weight and frame is similar.

Sorry if I came off as if I took offense, just letting ya know my opinion :) however biased it may be :P.

Sorry everyone for going so far :offtopic:

Now back to your regularly scheduled programming.

[lancane]

man...some of you are blinder than a bat. you wouldnt reconize talent if it slapped you in the face then took a S$%! on your front porch.

marshawn lynch should never be compared to the likes of pittman. pittman is ONE demensional!!!
could you be any lamer to categorize lynch as one demensional? you said he only is a juke em jive em style back. he is a P-O-W-E-R-B-A-C-K, something that pittman is not! lynch is tri-demensional he not only is a north, south powerback he also can block and play threat at wr too. lynch actually tries to punish you when he hits you...pittman likes to avoid contact and this wont work in denver.

bottom line is pittman will not fit our system.

we need to realize that lynch is not out of reach come draft day. we need to give a couple of picks to get lynch...maybe toss in tatum (good because we lose his contract) and there you have it. why is this so hard? lynch would be a beast in denver.

Lynch is a far more superior halfback and athlete...I do not think many would dispute that DB, but I think Lynch will be out of reach - one because of his ability I think he will be gone and two because Denver may overlook him cause of character if they feel he is a threat to the lockerroom.

My top five halfbacks as of now are:

Peterson, Lynch, Irons, Jackson and Russell...but if we do not get Lynch, I would be more then satisfied with Irons and I feel it is more feesable we can get him, unlike Lynch who may go much quicker.

[DenBronx]

Lynch is a far more superior halfback and athlete...I do not think many would dispute that DB, but I think Lynch will be out of reach - one because of his ability I think he will be gone and two because Denver may overlook him cause of character if they feel he is a threat to the lockerroom.

My top five halfbacks as of now are:

Peterson, Lynch, Irons, Jackson and Russell...but if we do not get Lynch, I would be more then satisfied with Irons and I feel it is more feesable we can get him, unlike Lynch who may go much quicker.


i just dont see why these guys are so high on pittman. he is tatums clone!

last year we made a great decision and gave up little to move up. we have an extra early third. so many times nfl teams take chances and they never pan out. im just saying if this is the time to rebuild or reload as one stated then we need youth at this position...so draft would be the ideal answer for a RB but we desperately need that marque back.

i think everyone would agree that peterson will be gone but there are very few teams ahead of us in need of a running back....just saying it wouldnt be impossible. i think shanny is itching to do this. we will wait and see what the combine brings because this could change everything!

[lancane]

i just dont see why these guys are so high on pittman. he is tatums clone!

last year we made a great decision and gave up little to move up. we have an extra early third. so many times nfl teams take chances and they never pan out. im just saying if this is the time to rebuild or reload as one stated then we need youth at this position...so draft would be the ideal answer for a RB but we desperately need that marque back.

i think everyone would agree that peterson will be gone but there are very few teams ahead of us in need of a running back....just saying it wouldnt be impossible. i think shanny is itching to do this. we will wait and see what the combine brings because this could change everything!

I would agree that a 'premier' gamebreaker is needed at halfback, if we could get Lynch without selling the whole first day, then I would be open to it, but not at the cost of four first day picks, though he is a very special talent, he is not worth our year on the field to get. I admit if he looked to fall to 20, then a trade up would be wise for a third or a player, but not something like our first and two third rounders or so forth. I think Lynch is a possibility, but right now I truly feel Irons will get the nod, not because of superiority but because many issues and he is capable to be a premier or feature back as well, though not as talented as Lynch...still! I do not think Pittman is better then Peterson, Lynch, Irons or even Jackson, he may compare to Russell, though Russell is far faster and a better elusive back.

[BIG HOUSE]

I do, but go to the NFL, the US Army, any place where physical activity is a must, this is what you'll learn.

When an individual has low Body fat content and high muscle content it makes it difficult for the body to build as easily. You have to put a lot more nutrients into your system to continue to build.

Since you don't actually build muscle (you don't grow muscle. Muscle cells become larger and thats how you build muscle. Muscle is strengthened by very small tears that heal and create a higher degree of strength on a cell to cell basis) you "inflate it" a great deal of energy is required to "inflate" more muscle into weight.

I do understand you can build if your alrady well built. But that also depends on white and red muscle cells, energy intake, and tons of other things, and from a PT standpoint, a guy who is as cut as Irons is tend to have more difficultly building then someone who has higher fat content.

The question is, did you know this? I doubt it.

your ignorace is amazing....body fat % has no bearing on a persons ability or inability to gain muscle mass. the determining factors are nutition, genetics and training . if person A has a bf% of say 10% and person B has a bf% of 20% person A has just as good of chance of gaining muscle mass as person B does. of course his cals, fat, protein assimilation is going to have to be higher than person B's because muscle burns more calories than fat does.

and as far as your PT standpoint goes. i know of quite a few NATURAL bodybuilders who jump up from a competition weight of around 180lbs to an offseason weight of around 200lbs(still staying much more ripped than kenny irons) just fine and i also know alot of fat people who excersise everyday and could never put on that kind of mass in such a short period of time. again, nutrition, training and genetics dictate a persons ability to gain mass, not body fat% and if you are a PT as you let on to be i would hate to be one of your clients because if you think a fat person has a greater oppertunity to gain muslce mass than a person with a relatively low bf% such as myself i would say either A) you have no idea about proper nutrition or B) your designed workout routines for clients suck

[DancingHorsey]

My feelings on Pittman: Bleh.

To be honest, I really want Brandon Jackson more than any other back right now. He just looks like the kind of down-hill, vision runner we need. Granted I love Lynch, but I'm not wild about trading up for him. Irons looks solid, but I'm a bit concerned about his ability to carry the load in the NFL. Everyone else just plain doesn't interest me.

[bjoli198]

Since you don't actually build muscle (you don't grow muscle. Muscle cells become larger and thats how you build muscle. Muscle is strengthened by very small tears that heal and create a higher degree of strength on a cell to cell basis) you "inflate it" a great deal of energy is required to "inflate" more muscle into weight.

I do understand you can build if your alrady well built. But that also depends on white and red muscle cells, energy intake, and tons of other things, and from a PT standpoint, a guy who is as cut as Irons is tend to have more difficultly building then someone who has higher fat content.
.

based on this hypothesis, I should be able to build muscles REALLY fast :rockon:

[vicious2500]

Lacane, where do you think Kenny Irons will be pickedi nthe draft? Are we too high to pikc him at 21? Would we be able to tradeback to the end of the 1st and acquire more draft picks to get him at the end of the 1st round or the early 2nd round?

[socalorado1]

QUOTE
marshawn lynch should never be compared to the likes of pittman. pittman is ONE demensional!!!
could you be any lamer to categorize lynch as one demensional? you said he only is a juke em jive em style back. he is a P-O-W-E-R-B-A-C-K, something that pittman is not! lynch is tri-demensional he not only is a north, south powerback he also can block and play threat at wr too. lynch actually tries to punish you when he hits you...pittman likes to avoid contact and this wont work in denver.

If there is one thing Lynch is not, its a P-O-W-E-R-B-A-C-K! Yeah so he hits the hole hard and slams into people once in a while. ALL RB eventually have to do this!
I've even seen Irons Do this! WOW big deal they all get hit or do some hitting eventually. Its a contact sport for crying out loud! Niether Lynch or Irons have POWER! This is the issue at hand- Some think thast because Lynch can make those cool moves and hit the corner and turn it up field (against PAC-10 "D"s of course) that hes some beast who can make it at the NFL level. If there is a back whos built like Tatum it Lynch! And i could care less about his character issues if he really has any. Irons is even worse! This guy is a great cut back runner so people automatically assume he is good for our system. Hey, ANYONE is good for our system! Seriously, Shanny could get the guy working the Taco Bell drive thru to run for a grand! What we dont need is another 200 lbs back whos out with injuries all the time. WE already have 2 backs that are just like these 2 guys. So why draft more?
Here is my question to guys who are on the Lynch and Irons bandwagon.
Why do you want to go and use a 1st round draft pick on a back that is close in style or has the same "basic height and weight " as guys that are already on the team? Anyone who would draft Irons in the 1st is crazy! Thats the biggest waste of a 1st ive ever seen! Guys a 3rd round pick tops! Not to mention hes no different than MBell! We already got a perfect clone of Irons on the team. What a waste of a pick!

[lancane]

Lacane, where do you think Kenny Irons will be pickedi nthe draft? Are we too high to pikc him at 21? Would we be able to tradeback to the end of the 1st and acquire more draft picks to get him at the end of the 1st round or the early 2nd round?

He will go anywhere between 20 and 36, so there is a small window. Irons is one of those picks that will go to the team who wants him the most, there are drafts with him going to the Giants before us at 20, there are drafts that have him going in the top of the 2nd, there are also drafts with him going to Baltimore and the Jets in round one. So there is no set position and at 21 he would still be of value, maybe a tad of a reach to some teams, however any athlete at 21, unless a faller is or could be a reach.

If he has a solid combine, then he will be a solid first round pick and will be slated to go late first, bad combine he may slip into late second round...but after his Senior Bowl which was good and his practices which were great, he will not fall too far if at all.

[BigBroncLove]

your ignorace is amazing....body fat % has no bearing on a persons ability or inability to gain muscle mass. the determining factors are nutition, genetics and training . if person A has a bf% of say 10% and person B has a bf% of 20% person A has just as good of chance of gaining muscle mass as person B does. of course his cals, fat, protein assimilation is going to have to be higher than person B's because muscle burns more calories than fat does.

and as far as your PT standpoint goes. i know of quite a few NATURAL bodybuilders who jump up from a competition weight of around 180lbs to an offseason weight of around 200lbs(still staying much more ripped than kenny irons) just fine and i also know alot of fat people who excersise everyday and could never put on that kind of mass in such a short period of time. again, nutrition, training and genetics dictate a persons ability to gain mass, not body fat% and if you are a PT as you let on to be i would hate to be one of your clients because if you think a fat person has a greater oppertunity to gain muslce mass than a person with a relatively low bf% such as myself i would say either A) you have no idea about proper nutrition or B) your designed workout routines for clients suck

So I’m ignorant because you don’t know anything about how the body utilizes energy and took the most simple information you could find and did a poor job of reposting it? Alright, I see the gloves are off (seeing as you called me ignorant), so let me give you a little lesson in how the body works with fat in a highly trained state, and how it utilizes that fat to the benefit of the individual exercising. Maybe then you’ll shove your foot back in your mouth where it belongs.

So here we go, a step by step process in explaining exactly why you know nothing about this subject.

So firstly you might ask, why would fat make any difference to exercising and in this case body building and gaining positive weight (muscle mass)??

But as you already show an automatic disbelief on anything I say, I will let professional sites make my point for me. Here is an article from Health Fitness, a popular fitness magazine in Australia. I will provide links to all articles and medical journals.

http://healthfitness.com.au/articles/weights/weightloss.html

“You see muscle is a vital component in your body's furnace. Basically the more muscle you have, the more furnaces you have operating in burning energy or food. In fact putting on around 0.5 kg of muscle will allow you to eat an extra 300 calories per week without affecting your weight.

That's the reason 100 kg bodybuilders eat two chickens, one kilo of rice, twenty egg whites and seven rolls plus 2 protein shakes and that's just his desert, yet they're still leaner that you and even me. Clearly, muscle mass is proportional to metabolic rate. The more active muscle you have the more calories you burn throughout the day.”

So already we see that the body will utilize more energy on a day to day basis without even considering physical activity. If you consider the amount of Physical activity a NFL football player uses on a day to day basis, unless they spend a greater part of the day eating or they in take protein drinks on a tri hourly basis (the body also is unable to process refined nutrients in protein drinks as easily as in other natural forms. That’s why a lot of protien drinks have so many nutrients, because it’s the only way the body can absorb the amount of energy the companies like to advertise their products deliver), that it is very difficult for them to intake the proper amount of energy on a day to day basis to not only build, but to maintain their current physical aptitude.

[BigBroncLove]

Then you might ask, well great, they use more energy, how does that mean that fats help a positive weight gaining process??

This is a complicated question, that involves how the body actually utilizes energy. The process that this involves is called ATP, which is how the body moves almost all energy. This is through the process of breaking down Glycogen into glucose and other fatty acids. As they are transported they are either used immediately or turned into what is known as triglycerides (or what we think of as fat). ATP is the process that utilizes oxygen and those glucose and fatty acids to create energy. So what that tells us I that triglycerides are exactly the thing our body needs to operate at a high pace. Just like carbohydrates or the glucose and fatty acids we eat, fat in itself is a very efficient form for the body to utilize energy. What has also been found by the Journal of Applied Physiology is that trained individuals who exercise will utilize more fat then the regular person, and this is because of the process that it takes to break down fats. Breaking down fats is one of the most difficult thigns to do in the body, but when you exercise, the body is creating the exact environment where it is easiest for the body to break down fats. Here is the article….

http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/content/abstract/60/2/562

“The respiratory exchange ratio (RER) is lower during exercise of the same intensity in the trained compared with the untrained state, even though plasma free fatty acids (FFA) and glycerol levels are lower, suggesting reduced availability of plasma FFA. In this context, we evaluated the possibility that lipolysis of muscle triglycerides might be higher in the trained state. Nine adult male subjects performed a prolonged bout of exercise of the same absolute intensity before and after adapting to a strenuous 12-wk program of endurance exercise. The exercise test required 64% of maximum O2 uptake before training. Plasma FFA and glycerol concentrations and RER during the exercise test were lower in the trained than in the untrained state. The proportion of the caloric expenditure derived from fat, calculated from the RER, during the exercise test increased from 35% before training to 57% after training. Muscle glycogen utilization was 41% lower, whereas the decrease in quadriceps muscle triglyceride concentration was roughly twice as great (12.7 +/- 5.5 vs. 26.1 +/- 9.3 mmol/kg dry wt, P less than 0.001) in the trained state. These results suggest that the greater utilization of FFA in the trained state is fueled by increased lipolysis of muscle triglyceride.”

This article probably doesn’t make much sense to people sine it uses a lot of terms not known to the lamen, but the important part is at the bottom…

“These results suggest that the greater utilization of FFA in the trained state is fueled by increased lipolysis of muscle triglyceride.”

It has been found that increased levels of Plasma free fatty acids (the very thing that muscles utilize to grow) is fueled by increased lipolysis (the process of breaking down fats through Hydrolysis) of muscle triglycerids (muscle triglycerids meaning fat inside the muscles.)

Everyone always thinks of fat as a thick layer of white cells between the skin and muscles, but what does red meat look like often when you buy it at the store? Fat is marbalized into the muscle, and this fat located on the muscle makes for storable energy that is easily utilized (since working out creates the best conditions for fat to be broken down) and is packed with FFA (free fatty acids). Generally that means, if a trained individual is not cut like crazy, but has some amounts of fat on their body, that fat will provide a very easy source of energy for them to utilize in a body to build muscle. If someone doesn’t have a fiar deal of fat on their body, unless they bombard their system with anabolic steroids, in taking that energy is more difficult since they burn a great deal of energy doing nothing, they have low energy stores in their body, and since they have such a rigi work out regiment, they usually have difficulty in taking as much energy as they put out, generally meaning they will lose even more body fat.

So, yes, having some body fat is something that helps to build muscle. Having less body fat doesn't mean you won't be able to build (Like I already said!), but it does help to have that fatty energy to feed the muscles the glucose it requires.

And no, sorry to tell ya bjoli, but given you eluded that your fat, just because your fat doesn't mean you build easier. It mean when you are in shape, and you have some fat on your body, you cna utilize that fat to create energy in an effecient manner to help build.

So I hope you like the taste of raw nike, or whatever foot apparel you wear, because given that you liked to pretend like you know it all, please keep stupid comments about subjects you know nothing about to yourself.

[DenBronx]

QUOTE
marshawn lynch should never be compared to the likes of pittman. pittman is ONE demensional!!!
could you be any lamer to categorize lynch as one demensional? you said he only is a juke em jive em style back. he is a P-O-W-E-R-B-A-C-K, something that pittman is not! lynch is tri-demensional he not only is a north, south powerback he also can block and play threat at wr too. lynch actually tries to punish you when he hits you...pittman likes to avoid contact and this wont work in denver.

If there is one thing Lynch is not, its a P-O-W-E-R-B-A-C-K! Yeah so he hits the hole hard and slams into people once in a while. ALL RB eventually have to do this!
I've even seen Irons Do this! WOW big deal they all get hit or do some hitting eventually. Its a contact sport for crying out loud! Niether Lynch or Irons have POWER! This is the issue at hand- Some think thast because Lynch can make those cool moves and hit the corner and turn it up field (against PAC-10 "D"s of course) that hes some beast who can make it at the NFL level. If there is a back whos built like Tatum it Lynch! And i could care less about his character issues if he really has any. Irons is even worse! This guy is a great cut back runner so people automatically assume he is good for our system. Hey, ANYONE is good for our system! Seriously, Shanny could get the guy working the Taco Bell drive thru to run for a grand! What we dont need is another 200 lbs back whos out with injuries all the time. WE already have 2 backs that are just like these 2 guys. So why draft more?
Here is my question to guys who are on the Lynch and Irons bandwagon.
Why do you want to go and use a 1st round draft pick on a back that is close in style or has the same "basic height and weight " as guys that are already on the team? Anyone who would draft Irons in the 1st is crazy! Thats the biggest waste of a 1st ive ever seen! Guys a 3rd round pick tops! Not to mention hes no different than MBell! We already got a perfect clone of Irons on the team. What a waste of a pick!



in the words of lex luthor "your not getting the big picture"

the running game sets up the passing game. pittman is a smaller back UNDER 200 pounds!!! how can he be a threat in the NFL? i said it before HE IS TATUMS CLONE...NOTHING MORE!

btw, your greatly mistaken about lynch not being a powerback....your wayyy off on this one buddy.

[BigBroncLove]

i dont know if u actually read my post but if you had you would have noticed that part where i said "a person with a lower bf% needs to increase their cals/potein/fats compared to someone with a higher bf%" and all your "professional" quotes do is reiterate my point that with proper diet and training a person with a low bf% will not suffer any handicap when it comes to putting on muscle mass.

also, your point about a fat person having more stored energy than someone with a low bf% is true. however, as most athletes know, in order to gain size one needs to load up on efas(good fat) and cals(energy) so it really makes no difference in the long run weather or not the fat is perminantly stored in the body(fat people) or there in the body only during training(athletes)

but ya youre right, just because i use my own knowledge rather than copying and pasting reports means that i should eat my shoe? even though nothing you have posted disagrees with my statements...i read your other post about the "vigorous tests" you had to do to get into the army and after reading that you find it difficult doing 65pushups and 70situps in 4 minutes i think i realize why youre trying o desperatly to prove that fat people are btter at gaing muscle than trained athletes

Read the second article carefully. Obviously you only read the first article. It says that people who are trained (meaning that do physical activity on a regular basis) use more triglycerides in the muscle for the use of FFA (plasma free form acids).

The initial arguement was about the ability for people with low bady fat(I'm not talking nation wide low like 7 - 4 bf %, I'm talking low in atheletes, 2-3%. Personally, I feel like Kenny Irons who has little fat between his skin and muscles based on all the shots of him I've seen, meaning theres a higher chance he has a low low body fat ratio IMO. Now that may change when he becomes inactive ebcause enery used for muscles while inactive will be broken down back into fat for people with high amounts of muscle. That energy has to go somewhere and unless you starve yourself or use your muscles at least in proportion to a training regiment, that muscle will become fat.)

So yes, what I posted did contradict what you said...

your ignorace is amazing....body fat % has no bearing on a persons ability or inability to gain muscle mass

It obviously has bearing, more so then you think.

Even if an individual eats like crazy and and uses a great deal of supplements, the body can only intake so many nutrients in a single sitting of a meal. That's why many atheletes are asked to eat more meals (usually smaller) on a daily basis. However still there are limits to that.

A person with low body fat (Perhaps like Kenny Irons. Theres no way for me to know for sure by just looking at a picture, but its possible.) may already be starting to peak out. Metabolic rates can effect ones ability to gain muscle, and if someone has already been running a hard workout regiment, and that has raised their metabolism to where they have trouble retaining fat in areas that (depending on genetics) should have them, then when asked to increase that workout regime (like they would in the NFL) and put on pounds is not always something everybody can do.

Remember, this entire thing started over a talk about Kenny Irons, so naturally I would assume you understood that everything I spoke about would be in reference to NFL atheltes, who are all highly tuned machines.

You argued, BF% does not have bearing on a persons ability to build, and frankly it does. It tells you about where they may or may not be in their metabolism, fat also helps the muscle grow when we are talking about someone like these type of atheletes who use a great deal of red muscle cell. While atheletes combat this by increasing nutrient intake through supplements and other means, that doesn't mean the human body can always process these nutrients properly through the body before it is flushed out of the system.

So no, you didn't "agree with me" in your other post, and you still don't. I can't dumb it down any further then that. I said my peace, you can either research it further and find out for yourself or stew over it until your fingers can't type anymore, I don't care.

Also, if you knew anything about the military you will notice I wrote

If you do not meet the minimum unit requirments (much higher then the low end of the U.S. Army PT test. In my unit it was 14:00 2 mile run, 65 push ups in 2 minutes, and 70 situps in 2 minutes. Really though, if you didnt score a 300 you needed work

That those requirements are the minimum. A 300 in the army is a 13:00 2 mile run (average 6:30 minutes each mile, yeah thats a real breeze for you I'm sure, and before you cry me a river and tell me about your amazing physical abilities, save it for someone who will read it.), 76 push ups in 2 minutes, 85 situps in 2 minutes.

Do that all in about an hour and a half. Big deal right? that's what everyone always says until they have to do it. Like I said I'm done debating you on this, it's extremely far :offtopic: and rude. Sorry thread creator. Back to Pittman.

[BigBroncLove]

I see you deleted your post.....

[BIG HOUSE]

ya, i feel that internet arguments just really arent worth my time or yours....whos to say ur theories are better tan mine or mine are better than yours? if youre getting gains and im getting gains then we both must know a little about training and nutrition....i also think we were both not on the same page, i believe you were comparing the 2 as if they had similar diets but i was assuming the athlete was already loading up on efas/cals/protein to counteract the fact that muscle burns more energy than fat

[D.J.55]

so why is everyone so sold on the fact that a running back will be the first round pick? honestly we have a back that ran for a 1000+ yds and only played 12 games. i think if we can keep him healthy theres no reason to go after a RB with such a early pick. especially with all the quality backs on the board this year and needing to fill in so many positions.... however if we do it needs to be irons or bush. both backs can pound the ball and fits in the scheme we run very well...

[mxbronco13]

so why is everyone so sold on the fact that a running back will be the first round pick? honestly we have a back that ran for a 1000+ yds and only played 12 games. i think if we can keep him healthy theres no reason to go after a RB with such a early pick. especially with all the quality backs on the board this year and needing to fill in so many positions.... however if we do it needs to be irons or bush. both backs can pound the ball and fits in the scheme we run very well...

if you think about it just barely making it over 1000 yards isn't a huge accomplishment like it used to be... nowadays in the nfl if your team doesnt have a thousand yard rusher it is pretty pathetic.. tatum bell is not a difference maker in important games and he never will be.. an elite running team like denver expects to have a runner pass the 1500 mark as a mininum.. anything below that doesnt cut it.

[MindField]

While Lynch and Peterson both have had comparisons done to other NFL All-Stars, such as Thomlinson and ****erson, Irons who is considered a possible 1st Rounder with stock rising has been compared to both Davis and Portis, while I know many fans have favorites...do not discount that he has drawn comparisons to both of the best backs in Denver's recent memory.

I agree though -- Peterson, Lynch, Irons and Jackson are likely to surpass anything over Pittman, he is still a better option then Hunt or Bush, but I am not sold he is a 'premier' capable back, feature capable possibly...but I obviously believe Denver will take Irons at this point, the Jets and Baltimore are two teams favored to nab him in round one, Denver will overlook Lynch even if he fell now...I think Irons is a better option and the comparisons to Davis and Portis will make Shanahan pull the trigger as well.


You now have Quentin Moses falling to the third round????

[MindField]

I think taking Kenny Irons in the first round is an incredible reach. Pittman, to me, is right about where we will be selecting in the second round, and I would be fine with the Broncos taking him there...

The thing is, we still have to see where Pittman will measure in at and how fast he runs, so the jury is still out on him.

Adrian Peterson is not going to be available, unless the Broncos trade waaaaaay up in the first round, which would be expensive, and at this point, unrealistic.

Marshawn Lynch to me looks like Laurence Maroney...I think he will be a decent to good Pro, but nothing spectacular and certainly not worth a first rounder...

I still see Kenny Irons and Antonio Pittman as the two most realistic projections to the Broncos, and both as second rounders.

[stnzed]

I think taking Kenny Irons in the first round is an incredible reach. Pittman, to me, is right about where we will be selecting in the second round, and I would be fine with the Broncos taking him there...

The thing is, we still have to see where Pittman will measure in at and how fast he runs, so the jury is still out on him.

Adrian Peterson is not going to be available, unless the Broncos trade waaaaaay up in the first round, which would be expensive, and at this point, unrealistic.

Marshawn Lynch to me looks like Laurence Maroney...I think he will be a decent to good Pro, but nothing spectacular and certainly not worth a first rounder...

I still see Kenny Irons and Antonio Pittman as the two most realistic projections to the Broncos, and both as second rounders.

I don't see a problem with them trading whatever it takes to move up and get something like Cutler.....

One more Cutler means a few less Claretts and Toviessi's.

Sounds good to me.

Trade up! the less picks Shanahan has the better! :D

[lancane]

You now have Quentin Moses falling to the third round????

Well remember Dumervil, not comparing them but the fall of, and Castillo...the fact is that good defensive lineman will fall, of the top round ends as of right now I think Moses will be the one taking a hard dive - Spencer, Abiamiri, Moore, Crowder are moving up quickly, Moss, Moses and McDonald are falling. Do not be surprised to see someone overlooked again and to be sitting there waiting for the call...unless Moses has a monster Pro Day and Combine he is currently out of the top 10.

Jamaal Anderson (Arkansas)
Gaines Adams (Clemson)
Adam Carriker (Nebraska)
Victor Abiamiri (Notre Dame)
Anthony Spencer (Purdue)
Charles Johnson (Georgia)
Jarvis Moss (Florida)
Tim Crowder (Texas)
Jay Moore (Nebraska)
LaMaar Woodley (Michigan)
Qeuntin Moses (Georgia)
Ikaika Alama-Francis (Hawaii)
Dan Bazuin (Central Michigan)
Ray McDonald (Florida)
Baraka Atkins (Miami)

Above is my top 15, as you can see the class has shifted and many like Moore, Crowder and Spencer have had stock rising, the combine more then the Pro Days will set there open projected rounds...but unless Moses who really lost a lot of stock and Woodley rebound, they may both be there in the 3rd Round, which I think Denver should take either at that time.

[lancane]

I think taking Kenny Irons in the first round is an incredible reach. Pittman, to me, is right about where we will be selecting in the second round, and I would be fine with the Broncos taking him there...

The thing is, we still have to see where Pittman will measure in at and how fast he runs, so the jury is still out on him.

Adrian Peterson is not going to be available, unless the Broncos trade waaaaaay up in the first round, which would be expensive, and at this point, unrealistic.

Marshawn Lynch to me looks like Laurence Maroney...I think he will be a decent to good Pro, but nothing spectacular and certainly not worth a first rounder...

I still see Kenny Irons and Antonio Pittman as the two most realistic projections to the Broncos, and both as second rounders.

How? Antonio Pittman and Kenny Irons are projected to be gone no later then mid second round, at which point the only good option maybe Brandon Jackson, who I am high on, but Kenny Irons is already considered to be a 1st Round sneaker come April, so either they take him or they miss. Pittman will not be there in the second round at 53 either, so what does Denver do? I think they reach or go for Lynch, unless Okoye is there.

[stnzed]

Well remember Dumervil, not comparing them but the fall of, and Castillo...the fact is that good defensive lineman will fall, of the top round ends as of right now I think Moses will be the one taking a hard dive - Spencer, Abiamiri, Moore, Crowder are moving up quickly, Moss, Moses and McDonald are falling. Do not be surprised to see someone overlooked again and to be sitting there waiting for the call...unless Moses has a monster Pro Day and Combine he is currently out of the top 10.

Jamaal Anderson (Arkansas)
Gaines Adams (Clemson)
Adam Carriker (Nebraska)
Victor Abiamiri (Notre Dame)
Anthony Spencer (Purdue)
Charles Johnson (Georgia)
Jarvis Moss (Florida)
Tim Crowder (Texas)
Jay Moore (Nebraska)
LaMaar Woodley (Michigan)
Qeuntin Moses (Georgia)
Ikaika Alama-Francis (Hawaii)
Dan Bazuin (Central Michigan)
Ray McDonald (Florida)
Baraka Atkins (Miami)

Above is my top 15, as you can see the class has shifted and many like Moore, Crowder and Spencer have had stock rising, the combine more then the Pro Days will set there open projected rounds...but unless Moses who really lost a lot of stock and Woodley rebound, they may both be there in the 3rd Round, which I think Denver should take either at that time.

Why is Moss falling , cane? Could he be had with the no2?

That'd be titts!

:D

[BigBroncLove]

Why is Moss falling , cane? Could he be had with the no2?

That'd be titts!

:D

I know this question wasn't aimed at me, but I thought I'd throw a few cents in the pot.

I think just like Dumerville, there is a question about how his size will translate into the NFL. He is an explosive player but at around 250, it's unsure how he will do on run defense, and if he will be able to compete with powerful tackles.

Thats why I think he's falling IMO.

[lancane]

I know this question wasn't aimed at me, but I thought I'd throw a few cents in the pot.

I think just like Dumerville, there is a question about how his size will translate into the NFL. He is an explosive player but at around 250, it's unsure how he will do on run defense, and if he will be able to compete with powerful tackles.

Thats why I think he's falling IMO.

Good observation BB, and that is correct - that is why Crowder, Moore and Abiamiri and even Spencer are getting up there, they are showing skill for the traditional size ends and the lighter ends are dropping - not all, Woodley is like Dumervil and his height to body weight is playing a major factor, but Moss and Moses have to have outstanding combine numbers to bounce back, especially when the linebackers are getting heavier and some are taking them to be the hybrids as well.

Moss will fall to the top of the second round, Abiamiri will be borderline, Johnson will creep back into the first pushing fallers further. Woodley and Moses may drop into our laps in the 3rd, in the 2nd Round I think Denver will take Brown from Miami because he has really risen up to be effective big tackle, much like Bates likes. But the rushing ends, or lighter ends will force the change in the rankings leaving viable options with our high 3rd Round Pick.

[MindField]

Well remember Dumervil, not comparing them but the fall of, and Castillo...the fact is that good defensive lineman will fall, of the top round ends as of right now I think Moses will be the one taking a hard dive - Spencer, Abiamiri, Moore, Crowder are moving up quickly, Moss, Moses and McDonald are falling. Do not be surprised to see someone overlooked again and to be sitting there waiting for the call...unless Moses has a monster Pro Day and Combine he is currently out of the top 10.

Jamaal Anderson (Arkansas)
Gaines Adams (Clemson)
Adam Carriker (Nebraska)
Victor Abiamiri (Notre Dame)
Anthony Spencer (Purdue)
Charles Johnson (Georgia)
Jarvis Moss (Florida)
Tim Crowder (Texas)
Jay Moore (Nebraska)
LaMaar Woodley (Michigan)
Qeuntin Moses (Georgia)
Ikaika Alama-Francis (Hawaii)
Dan Bazuin (Central Michigan)
Ray McDonald (Florida)
Baraka Atkins (Miami)

Above is my top 15, as you can see the class has shifted and many like Moore, Crowder and Spencer have had stock rising, the combine more then the Pro Days will set there open projected rounds...but unless Moses who really lost a lot of stock and Woodley rebound, they may both be there in the 3rd Round, which I think Denver should take either at that time.


I think you really over-state this....there is NO WAY Moses gets out of the Top 40. Teams are still going to view him as an OLB prospect...and it is not likely he is going to grade out poorly as an athlete at the Combine. He is still a lock for the Top 40....

As for Moss, he is projected by some, Scouts Inc., for example, as a Top 20 player.

[lancane]

I think you really over-state this....there is NO WAY Moses gets out of the Top 40. Teams are still going to view him as an OLB prospect...and it is not likely he is going to grade out poorly as an athlete at the Combine. He is still a lock for the Top 40....

As for Moss, he is projected by some, Scouts Inc., for example, as a Top 20 player.

MindField, you have a lot to learn about the draft if all you do is read the lines set forth by ScoutsInc. and more, funny thing about that, they are usually wrong on 65% of the draft if not more. The only sure picks are usually the top 10, after which is a crapshoot, and anyone worth their weight in the draft could tell you there is a big chance for fallers, but I guess you forget that. Remind me, where was Dumervil projected? How about Kiwa and Rothlisberger, Rodgers even? There will be fallers, no matter if you think they are studs and Moses's stock took a plummit this past two weeks. Just like your thought on Pittman and Irons, just cause mocks have them where they do means very little, the fact they have stock rising and you do not realize that says alot, your going off what others think...use your own mind and come up with the fallers, Woodley will fall, so will Moses, Moss may be the one that really rebounds - but until the combine (As I have stated) no one knows where they will fall or climb to. You act like all the good ends will be gone by the top 60 spots, good for us I guess, then we are guaranteed a top halfback, offensive lineman and receiver! -- That right there tells you that the mocks are wrong, not everyone needing an end will take one over another position, not everyone will fill a position if a better athlete of need falls. Some take the best available, some take the highest of need, not all will take ends cause you feel that is where they are ranked...some will fall MF, you will see.

;)

[stnzed]

He may participate at the combine, but how much?

If he test as well as he has in the past he'll move up a little.

Dumervil dropped b/c he's the Rudy Ruettiger of DE's.

Moss is still my realistic pick. He won't be asked to start this year, so he'll have time to add some bulk before he's expected to compete for a starting job.

Now getting a draft like Moss 1st, Kareem Brown 2nd and Moses 3rd?

Hooo man!!! Who say's I'm pessimistic?

:D

[lancane]

He may participate at the combine, but how much?

If he test as well as he has in the past he'll move up a little.

Dumervil dropped b/c he's the Rudy Ruettiger of DE's.

Moss is still my realistic pick. He won't be asked to start this year, so he'll have time to add some bulk before he's expected to compete for a starting job.

Now getting a draft like Moss 1st, Kareem Brown 2nd and Moses 3rd?

Hooo man!!! Who say's I'm pessimistic?

:D

Would be nice, but with needs we have as a team, very unrealistic...lol.

But Ruettiger is not a good term for Dumervil, who could easily start on a 3-4 team, so I think we took him as a pass rushing specialist more then as an every down end, but he is capable. Woodley is much the same mold, smaller and bigger - but that does not mean he will not fall. Every year top prospects fall, because of other athletes rising -- this is the fact I was trying to show MindField, but for now we have to guess the fallers, till the combine and Moses and Woodley are my big two fallers at the position...I think Moss at latest would be a high second, if at all. But it is unrealistic for everyone to think all top 10 ends will be gone by the end of the 2nd or early in the 3rd, more unrealistic is the entire top 15 by the end of the 3rd, not with other good and great athletes out there. The problem this year is that ends are higher ranked then usual, but that does not mean that teams will overlook need to rank or best available to most needed -- a huge factor when drafting...look at Detroit, they go best available and still suck!

Denver is one of need and like, they are a reaching team come the draft or they set on someone and that is it, as I always say the proof is in the pudding, and may be why I think if Lynch is gone they will reach for Irons.

[stnzed]

Would be nice, but with needs we have as a team, very unrealistic...lol.

But Ruettiger is not a good term for Dumervil, who could easily start on a 3-4 team, so I think we took him as a pass rushing specialist more then as an every down end, but he is capable. Woodley is much the same mold, smaller and bigger - but that does not mean he will not fall. Every year top prospects fall, because of other athletes rising -- this is the fact I was trying to show MindField, but for now we have to guess the fallers, till the combine and Moses and Woodley are my big two fallers at the position...I think Moss at latest would be a high second, if at all. But it is unrealistic for everyone to think all top 10 ends will be gone by the end of the 2nd or early in the 3rd, more unrealistic is the entire top 15 by the end of the 3rd, not with other good and great athletes out there. The problem this year is that ends are higher ranked then usual, but that does not mean that teams will overlook need to rank or best available to most needed -- a huge factor when drafting...look at Detroit, they go best available and still suck!

Denver is one of need and like, they are a reaching team come the draft or they set on someone and that is it, as I always say the proof is in the pudding, and may be why I think if Lynch is gone they will reach for Irons.

Yeah I like Dumervil too. I just like picking on him b/c it seems like he's the next Freeney around here. He's a hell of a pass rusher, just not a starter.

Denver has a lot of needs, I know. But man that'd be sweet!

3 d-lineman through the draft! (And Stienbach thru free agency) :)

Btw, Detroit sucks b/c they suck. Drafting "B.A.A" may be part of it...But it can't be all of it!

.

[lancane]

Yeah I like Dumervil too. I just like picking on him b/c it seems like he's the next Freeney around here. He's a hell of a pass rusher, just not a starter.

Denver has a lot of needs, I know. But man that'd be sweet!

3 d-lineman through the draft! (And Stienbach thru free agency) :)

Btw, Detroit sucks b/c they suck. Drafting "B.A.A" may be part of it...But it can't be all of it!

.

No, it is not all of it -- bad coaching and bad management as well, but over the last decade Detroit has had almost nothing but top picks come April, they should be elite by now...Hell, if Denver had those picks we would be the biggest Juggernaut in league history! So it shows that the draft is a big need, but succeeding in the draft is more important then position...Denver has always been a reaching team, they see an athlete they like disguise it (as best they can) and take the player they like. Cutler, 90% of the fans were shocked, only a few of us actually got it right. That is the key, watch who they are watching but not talking to and it will lead most times to where or what they will pick, funny they have talked to defensive backs, linebackers and defensive ends, so as of right now I think it will be a halfback or defensive tackle, but the combine will tell us more!

If they talk with Kenny Irons, I would not bet on him either at that point, but for now they have only been watching him.

;)

[stnzed]

No, it is not all of it -- bad coaching and bad management as well, but over the last decade Detroit has had almost nothing but top picks come April, they should be elite by now...Hell, if Denver had those picks we would be the biggest Juggernaut in league history! So it shows that the draft is a big need, but succeeding in the draft is more important then position...Denver has always been a reaching team, they see an athlete they like disguise it (as best they can) and take the player they like. Cutler, 90% of the fans were shocked, only a few of us actually got it right. That is the key, watch who they are watching but not talking to and it will lead most times to where or what they will pick, funny they have talked to defensive backs, linebackers and defensive ends, so as of right now I think it will be a halfback or defensive tackle, but the combine will tell us more!

If they talk with Kenny Irons, I would not bet on him either at that point, but for now they have only been watching him.

;)


Ok! Heres what ya do! Draft Irons no1....Trade up in round 2 and get Moss! We're both happy. Ya still have a 3rd and maybe you add a 4th too.

It really is that simple....I don't see why Shanahan struggles with it so much! :D


Btw, maybe Shanahan knows that people will be watching him watching....Thinking he'll take the player he's watching not the player he's talking...So maybe he'll take the player he's talking instead of the player he watching???


Maybe!


.

[lancane]

Ok! Heres what ya do! Draft Irons no1....Trade up in round 2 and get Moss! We're both happy. Ya still have a 3rd and maybe you add a 4th too.

It really is that simple....I don't see why Shanahan struggles with it so much! :D


Btw, maybe Shanahan knows that people will be watching him watching....Thinking he'll take the player he's watching not the player he's talking...So maybe he'll take the player he's talking instead of the player he watching???


Maybe!


.

LMAO...mind games are so nice are they not? I would not be surprised if he felt that way, then did a whole new twist on it, but the fact he has yet to really be unhandled of his master mind game, I think it will remain...hahaha.

I would not mind Moss in the 2nd, really I would not mind many things - A feature or premier back, a solid capable starting caliber end, a defensive tackle to groom into a powerful leader, a future replacement for Hamilton at left guard and the same for a left tackle...I do not care if he goes wide receiver with every other pick, I would not mind a fullback either, but with those top five, I would be happy!

:smug:

I am not sold on only Irons either, there are some backs I think are big 'gems' - Brandon Jackson being the top of that group, but I would be impressed if we got Lynch or Irons, and would be okay as long as they got a back capable of being more then an average back.

[stnzed]

LMAO...mind games are so nice are they not? I would not be surprised if he felt that way, then did a whole new twist on it, but the fact he has yet to really be unhandled of his master mind game, I think it will remain...hahaha.

I would not mind Moss in the 2nd, really I would not mind many things - A feature or premier back, a solid capable starting caliber end, a defensive tackle to groom into a powerful leader, a future replacement for Hamilton at left guard and the same for a left tackle...I do not care if he goes wide receiver with every other pick, I would not mind a fullback either, but with those top five, I would be happy!

:smug:

I am not sold on only Irons either, there are some backs I think are big 'gems' - Brandon Jackson being the top of that group, but I would be impressed if we got Lynch or Irons, and would be okay as long as they got a back capable of being more then an average back.


That, cane!...Is where Steinbach comes in! Move Hamilton over to RG (Or the bench...whatever) and sign the player they should have drafted instead of Foster (Who, btw, should be the starting RG)


It really is that simple!

:D