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thehighlander
04-05-2007, 04:41 PM
:confused:

I have been thinking about this....

Elvis Dummervil is a good pass rusher, but is regarded as undersized for a full time DE position....

Could he convert to a linebacker?

there are several discussion already in the forum re Al Wilson possibly not returning and DJ converting to Middle Linebacker....If that is the case could we have a line backer corps of:
Elvis - D.J. - Gold

Karl Mecklenburg was a successful convert so why not Elvis?

ErnieNovember
04-05-2007, 04:45 PM
I brought this up a few months back, I think its a great idea... but most people on the boards had nothing good to say about it... everyone is an expert in one way or another.

xX-Bronco-Xx
04-05-2007, 04:47 PM
We don't run a 3-4 where the outside linebacker is like a pass rusher so I honestly doubt it.

CinnaMunMun
04-05-2007, 04:48 PM
I brought this up a few months back, I think its a great idea... but most people on the boards had nothing good to say about it... everyone is an expert in one way or another.

Well thats not nice. Just because people don't believe in you opinion, doesn't mean you should label them as wannabe-experts.

I would give it a thought if we switched to the 3-4 (but we aren't), but as a 4-3 LB I doubt he would do too good.

muse
04-05-2007, 04:49 PM
I think he's better used at DE tbh. He's got foot down acceleration but I don't think his flat line speed is quite high enough for our LB corps.

Thank you for not mentioning the 3-4 though. The next person who suggests that we do will probably find themselves e-castrated.

Chidoze
04-05-2007, 04:50 PM
He's a DE and he'll likely stay there.

ErnieNovember
04-05-2007, 05:01 PM
Well thats not nice. Just because people don't believe in you opinion, doesn't mean you should label them as wannabe-experts.

I would give it a thought if we switched to the 3-4 (but we aren't), but as a 4-3 LB I doubt he would do too good.

Well I disagree, he would make a good MLB, he has speed and there is no doubt he can hit, he's young enough to retrain for the position. It would sure beat getting his head and chin pulled up in an unatural angle everytime he rushed the QB like he does on the D line

LoyalSoldier
04-05-2007, 05:07 PM
Not all positions are interchangeable. Unless you are playing Madden.

muse
04-05-2007, 05:09 PM
Not all positions are interchangeable. Unless you are playing Madden.

And of course everyone knows you get a ratings boost when you convert from LB to DE, not the other way round. Duhhhh! What were you guys thinking? :goofy:

BRONCOS_OWN_U16
04-05-2007, 05:09 PM
Not all positions are interchangeable. Unless you are playing Madden.
thats not true sir.

atleast play the damn game before you use it in your post.

ErnieNovember
04-05-2007, 05:10 PM
[QUOTE=LoyalSoldier]Not all positions are interchangeable. Unless you are playing Madden.[/QUOT

And some are...
And Madden sux - ESPN 2k all the way.

stnzed
04-05-2007, 05:11 PM
I think Elvis Dumervil and Reggie Nelson could run for President!


Why does Dumervil HAVE TO START?


I'm tellin ya....Make him the starting deep snapper and I'm his biggest fan. :D

ErnieNovember
04-05-2007, 05:12 PM
I think Elvis Dumervil and Reggie Nelson could run for President!


Why does Dumervil HAVE TO START?

Because we didn't draft him to sit on the bench.

stnzed
04-05-2007, 05:13 PM
Because we didn't draft him to sit on the bench.


Yes we did!!!!!!

dogfish
04-05-2007, 05:14 PM
no. . . he's not athletic enough-- his straight-line speed may or may not be adequate, but it certainly isn't what we want from linebackers in our scheme. . . he also lacks top change-of-direction skills, even for an end-- i don't think he can backpedal and flip his hips, meaning that he would be lost in coverage. . . besides, he's a natural fit at end, and is the only decent young defensive lineman on the entire roster. . .

ErnieNovember
04-05-2007, 05:17 PM
no. . . he's not athletic enough-- his straight-line speed may or may not be adequate, but it certainly isn't what we want from linebackers in our scheme. . . he also lacks top change-of-direction skills, even for an end-- i don't think he can backpedal and flip his hips, meaning that he would be lost in coverage. . . besides, he's a natural fit at end, and is the only decent young defensive lineman on the entire roster. . .

And I disagree, in the game against SF last year, he pulled back into coverage real fast, then when he seen it was a run he closed in on the back up for Gore and nearly tore his head off... See my earlier post about everyone considering themselves an expert...
PS I don't think I'm an expert
I just see what I see...
And PS I was calling for an improved D-line a few years ago before it became fashionable around heya.

Anikai
04-05-2007, 05:20 PM
hes smaller then most on the DL, but compared to the rest, he moves like the Flash....to put him at LB would be a mistake....

ErnieNovember
04-05-2007, 05:23 PM
hes smaller then most on the DL, but compared to the rest, he moves like the Flash....to put him at LB would be a mistake....

It don't matter.
When his neck is messed up in five years from the constant barrage of forearm lifts to it...
The fans around here will be calling for him to be traded.

stnzed
04-05-2007, 05:29 PM
And I disagree, in the game against SF last year, he pulled back into coverage real fast, then when he seen it was a run he closed in on the back up for Gore and nearly tore his head off... See my earlier post about everyone considering themselves an expert...
PS I don't think I'm an expert
I just see what I see...
And PS I was calling for an improved D-line a few years ago before it became fashionable around heya.


If Dumervil would make such a good LB then why did Shanahan try to make him a DT? He's got LB size, but when he signs and comes to camp, Shanahan's first order of business is to try him at DT....

....

....

....

See where I'm going with this?

dogfish
04-05-2007, 05:29 PM
And I disagree, in the game against SF last year, he pulled back into coverage real fast, then when he seen it was a run he closed in on the back up for Gore and nearly tore his head off... See my earlier post about everyone considering themselves an expert...
PS I don't think I'm an expert
I just see what I see...
And PS I was calling for an improved D-line a few years ago before it became fashionable around heya.


PS i think you're funny-- everyone else who has an opinion is a "wannabe expert," but not you, right? how's that work again?? looks to me like anyone who fails to agree with you gets the derrogatory label. . . . nice!

PS elvis successfully dropping into coverage on a zone blitz in ONE instance that you can remember from last year isn't exactly evidence that he has the athleticism to become a fulltime linebacker. . . if the coaching staff think he fits best at LB, then they'll move him there-- but don't be surprised when he's playing DE again next season. . .

PS i'm not even sure what the last statement is intended to mean. . . . :confused: LOTS of broncos fans have been calling for improvements on the D-line for years now, as it's obviously been one of our biggest weaknesses for quite some time. . . .

GREATEST SHOW ON TURF 2000
04-05-2007, 05:30 PM
If Dummervil converts to OLB then who will rush the passer
:confused:

stnzed
04-05-2007, 05:30 PM
It don't matter.
When his neck is messed up in five years from the constant barrage of forearm lifts to it...
The fans around here will be calling for him to be traded.


Can't argue with that! :salute:

stnzed
04-05-2007, 05:31 PM
If Dummervil converts to OLB then who will rush the passer
:confused:


Reggie Nelson.... :D

muse
04-05-2007, 05:31 PM
Alvin McKinley and his beard :laugh:

http://cache.denverbroncos.com/resources/custom/Team/McKinley_Alvin_mug06.jpg

It's a fine (non-sexual...) Abe Lincoln he's got there....

GREATEST SHOW ON TURF 2000
04-05-2007, 05:33 PM
Reggie Nelson.... :D

yo i want Denver to draft that guy so badddddddddddddddd!

stnzed
04-05-2007, 05:35 PM
yo i want Denver to draft that guy so badddddddddddddddd!


Ya don't say? :D

GREATEST SHOW ON TURF 2000
04-05-2007, 05:35 PM
Alvin McKinley and his beard :laugh:

http://cache.denverbroncos.com/resources/custom/Team/McKinley_Alvin_mug06.jpg

It's a fine (non-sexual...) Abe Lincoln he's got there....

he looks like he just killed somebody...

GREATEST SHOW ON TURF 2000
04-05-2007, 05:36 PM
Ya don't say? :D

:laugh:
but they wont
:(

muse
04-05-2007, 05:37 PM
True, it's a bit of a prison mugshot. Maybe he could hide the murder weapon in there...

JRWIZ
04-05-2007, 05:38 PM
He is barely a DE has a great 5yard burst past that I suspect not much. If they wish to drop him in coverage from time to time ok but he knows DE, until he learns the pro side of that leave him be.

I also suspect that rotating in at DT is far less a stretch than learning a new position altogether

GREATEST SHOW ON TURF 2000
04-05-2007, 05:38 PM
True, it's a bit of a prison mugshot. Maybe he could hide the murder weapon in there...

:laugh:
your probally right :thumb:
but isnt he as slow as a slug?

stnzed
04-05-2007, 05:44 PM
:laugh:
but they wont
:(

I guess they'll have to find someone else to rush the passer. Nelson isn't the only player in the draft.

To be honest, I have no idea why he's so popular around here......I know he's a hell of a player, but I just don't get it.


There isn't anything so bad about the safeties that a better pass rush couldn't help.

topscribe
04-05-2007, 06:00 PM
thats not true sir.

atleast play the damn game before you use it in your post.
Oh? Can you imagine Gerrard Warren at wide receiver?

Dominique Foxworth at defensive tackle?

-----

antiwup
04-05-2007, 06:11 PM
what we can do is create a hybrid 3-4/4-3 scheme where elvis can be an outside linebacker on occasion but sit off the line on occasion to get him started in a better pass rush attack than sitting on the line of scrimage and get a face full of hand. at least sitting outside in a 3-4 defense in passing situations can help him to put a better move on opposing tackles and get after the QBs quicker. your thoughts?! we would use a 3-4 scheme only on obvious passing situations not half the time! just enough to get opponents thinking. we can set a play to look like a 4-3 and quickly shift into a 3-4 and throw other teams off and get them :confused: with elvis in!

stnzed
04-05-2007, 06:16 PM
what we can do is create a hybrid 3-4/4-3 scheme where elvis can be an outside linebacker on occasion but sit off the line on occasion to get him started in a better pass rush attack than sitting on the line of scrimage and get a face full of hand. at least sitting outside in a 3-4 defense in passing situations can help him to put a better move on opposing tackles and get after the QBs quicker. your thoughts?! we would use a 3-4 scheme only on obvious passing situations not half the time! just enough to get opponents thinking. we can set a play to look like a 4-3 and quickly shift into a 3-4 and throw other teams off and get them :confused: with elvis in!

Maybe the Broncos could use Dumervil as a pass rush specialist....like last year.

Broncosinindy
04-05-2007, 06:28 PM
Oh? Can you imagine Gerrard Warren at wide receiver?

Dominique Foxworth at defensive tackle?

-----


i mean seriuosly though. if denver would put him at tackle i know it would be rotational why wouldnt it make sense.. yes i heard about straight line speed. i mean i would think he has a better chance at his size to play linebacker then DT the guy is 250 some odd lbs and 5'11 dont most tackles weigh 300 plus? he would anchor the linebacker unit as a linebacker sure he doesnt have the speed to play third downs but dont bates wanna use gold and williams on third. i dont think people should bash others when they have a question.. i mean if its seriously a crazy idea why not just answer it.. it would seem eaiser then trying to poke ones chest out.. and that ws not directed to you TOP

LoyalSoldier
04-05-2007, 07:30 PM
thats not true sir.

atleast play the damn game before you use it in your post.


I own all the copies dating back to 2002 thank you.

SM19
04-06-2007, 05:22 AM
Maybe the Broncos could use Dumervil as a pass rush specialist....like last year.

That's crazy talk.

JvDub95
04-06-2007, 05:46 AM
:confused:

I have been thinking about this....

Elvis Dummervil is a good pass rusher, but is regarded as undersized for a full time DE position....

Could he convert to a linebacker?

there are several discussion already in the forum re Al Wilson possibly not returning and DJ converting to Middle Linebacker....If that is the case could we have a line backer corps of:
Elvis - D.J. - Gold

Karl Mecklenburg was a successful convert so why not Elvis?
It could probably work but why add another LB? I could see if we lose one of our starters but even in that case Webster or a rookie would be the first options. :coffee:

ErnieNovember
04-06-2007, 07:54 AM
PS i think you're funny-- everyone else who has an opinion is a "wannabe expert," but not you, right? how's that work again?? looks to me like anyone who fails to agree with you gets the derrogatory label. . . . nice!

PS elvis successfully dropping into coverage on a zone blitz in ONE instance that you can remember from last year isn't exactly evidence that he has the athleticism to become a fulltime linebacker. . . if the coaching staff think he fits best at LB, then they'll move him there-- but don't be surprised when he's playing DE again next season. . .

PS i'm not even sure what the last statement is intended to mean. . . . :confused: LOTS of broncos fans have been calling for improvements on the D-line for years now, as it's obviously been one of our biggest weaknesses for quite some time. . . .

Well no shyte..
You're great at stating the obvious.
Of course we are thin at the D-line and the chances of the coaching staff turning Dumervil into a super linbacker are not going to happen.
Sorry I confused you... thats usualy what happens when people have a one track mind and can't see beyond the obvious.
But like I said when his neck is injured in a few years from constantly getting it jarred up from linemen. All the experts around here will be calling for him to be traded or cut.
I am hoping the new coaches will teach him how to spin like Freeney, maybe add a few years to his career.

antd700
04-06-2007, 08:30 AM
Doesn't Elvis pretty much fit Bates' system to a T? Plus i seem to remember at the combine he practiced at LB and impressed nobody. He has the size, just apparently not the skills, I'll let Shanny make the decisions.

JRWIZ
04-06-2007, 09:48 AM
Doesn't Elvis pretty much fit Bates' system to a T? Plus i seem to remember at the combine he practiced at LB and impressed nobody. He has the size, just apparently not the skills, I'll let Shanny make the decisions.

I don't recall him at the combine but if he was, he would have mostly likely worked out as a LB, because NO ONE in their right mind would have drafted him to play DL at his size.

topscribe
04-06-2007, 09:51 AM
i mean seriuosly though. if denver would put him at tackle i know it would be rotational why wouldnt it make sense.. yes i heard about straight line speed. i mean i would think he has a better chance at his size to play linebacker then DT the guy is 250 some odd lbs and 5'11 dont most tackles weigh 300 plus? he would anchor the linebacker unit as a linebacker sure he doesnt have the speed to play third downs but dont bates wanna use gold and williams on third. i dont think people should bash others when they have a question.. i mean if its seriously a crazy idea why not just answer it.. it would seem eaiser then trying to poke ones chest out.. and that ws not directed to you TOP
Actually, many successful pass-rushing DEs are closer to Dumervil's size, Broncosinindy.
The lack of sustained speed would probably prevent his success at LB. The fact he
has a terrific burst . . . essentially a good first 10 yards . . . makes him an explosive
pass rusher from DE. But I really don't see him playing anywhere else.

IMHO.

-----

lex
04-06-2007, 10:23 AM
And I disagree, in the game against SF last year, he pulled back into coverage real fast, then when he seen it was a run he closed in on the back up for Gore and nearly tore his head off... See my earlier post about everyone considering themselves an expert...
PS I don't think I'm an expert
I just see what I see...
And PS I was calling for an improved D-line a few years ago before it became fashionable around heya.

Ernie, I give you a lot of credit. Its a very interesting idea that youve entered for discussion. One thing to keep in mind though is that DEs often bracket running plays and tackle QBs (or RBs in pursuit). They dont often fill and arent confronted with avoiding all the traffic and making plays like a LB is. A LB is avoiding several possible blockers, filling and tackling the best runner on the other team. Its different for a DE. Dumervil may be athletic enough as you are saying but what Ive mentioned is a HUGE part of playing middle LB. Im not saying Dumervil couldnt do it or even that its not worth considering but Id feel a lot more comfortable about it if I knew Elvis had the necessary skillset that Ive mentioned.

Bronx84
04-06-2007, 10:26 AM
I like Dummerville at DE, he did awesome as a situational pass rusher last year.

JRWIZ
04-06-2007, 10:30 AM
I like Dummerville at DE, he did awesome as a situational pass rusher last year.

Unlike Mikey trying to make people into other players.

Lets see Lepsis was a TE, Sharpe was WR, as was Putz, and the other TE on the roster.

Mikey like to play games.

Bronx84
04-06-2007, 10:33 AM
Unlike Mikey trying to make people into other players.

Lets see Lepsis was a TE, Sharpe was WR, as was Putz, and the other TE on the roster.

Mikey like to play games.
Yeah it could happen but I just don't think it's going to happen.

JRWIZ
04-06-2007, 11:01 AM
Yeah it could happen but I just don't think it's going to happen.

I was not encouraging, it but then again the mastermind knows all.























Except drafting.

Monjava
04-06-2007, 12:10 PM
:confused:

I have been thinking about this....

Elvis Dummervil is a good pass rusher, but is regarded as undersized for a full time DE position....

Could he convert to a linebacker?

there are several discussion already in the forum re Al Wilson possibly not returning and DJ converting to Middle Linebacker....If that is the case could we have a line backer corps of:
Elvis - D.J. - Gold

Karl Mecklenburg was a successful convert so why not Elvis? Good to see other people with similar thoughts along this line, I myself mentioned this very subject in post #24 of the Safety first thread 2 days ago. Considering the fact that Bates has a preference for larger D-Linemen that can stand their ground and create pressure, moving the smaller but very talented Dumervil to the LB position just may not be a bad idea. He may need to lose about 15 pounds but it would also make him even faster than he already is. Good thread Highlander, and good idea.

thehighlander
04-06-2007, 01:33 PM
Good to see other people with similar thoughts along this line, I myself mentioned this very subject in post #24 of the Safety first thread 2 days ago. Considering the fact that Bates has a preference for larger D-Linemen that can stand their ground and create pressure, moving the smaller but very talented Dumervil to the LB position just may not be a bad idea. He may need to lose about 15 pounds but it would also make him even faster than he already is. Good thread Highlander, and good idea.

It was just a thought

some agrees with me.... what is the world coming to?

I remember how good Mecklenburg was .... remember his story
13th round pick DE
converted to LB

We all know this one... He is one of the all time greats in Bronco History...

A good discussion but the final decission lies with the coaches....

:salute:

Broncosinindy
04-06-2007, 07:34 PM
It was just a thought

some agrees with me.... what is the world coming to?

I remember how good Mecklenburg was .... remember his story
13th round pick DE
converted to LB

We all know this one... He is one of the all time greats in Bronco History...

A good discussion but the final decission lies with the coaches....

:salute:
Meck played every DL and LB position before he found his home at MLB

Ravage!!!
04-06-2007, 08:07 PM
I was not encouraging, it but then again the mastermind knows all.






Except drafting.

He certainly has had good drafts the last couple of years :coffee: :coffee: :coffee:

WABronco
04-06-2007, 08:08 PM
This would make as much sense as moving Champ to safety, IMO.

Why take away one of our only threats off the edge and move him to SAM, or whatever?

SHELLBACKBRONCO
04-06-2007, 09:14 PM
This would make as much sense as moving Champ to safety, IMO.

Why take away one of our only threats off the edge and move him to SAM, or whatever?
I like the comparrisons of Elvis Dummerville to Dwight Freeney. Both are DE's. Freeney is 6'1" at most and about 268 lbs. Dummerville (I hope I'm spelling it right) is 5'11" almost 6'0" and about 250 lbs. Last year Freeney had been in the league 6 years and had 26 tackles and 5.5 sacks. Last year was Elvis' rookey season. As a rookey he had 14 tackles and 8.5 sacks. (Led our team) Last year Elvis was pretty much our ONLY pass rusher. WHY RUIN A GOOD THING???

Hoserman117
04-06-2007, 09:14 PM
I just don't know if he's fast enough...

SHELLBACKBRONCO
04-06-2007, 09:26 PM
I just don't know if he's fast enough...
As long as he can do the job!? Definately get him some help through the draft!!!

JRWIZ
04-07-2007, 02:05 AM
He certainly has had good drafts the last couple of years :coffee: :coffee: :coffee:

this remains to be seen. So far

2005 his top pick was for a KR specialist that just happened to be better than the TWO "DB" he planned to be better, so good he had to trade for Williams replacement. IN the process trading away to failed first dayers from previous drafts.

Not so sure that equates to a good a draft. Then of course there was clarrett because Who was it dallas was thinking about taking him?
The best one in this draft was probably Meyers in the 6th.

2006 he got a QB that many think will be a franchise player might be might not be time will tell.,

potential future stars most think at TE and WR.I'd guess that like every other WR that Mikey has DAFTED marshall also will be gone in two years. I hope not but that is PAR for the course. scheffler could be special but so migt have been Nate , Putz and just about every TE since Sharpe.

a third down pass rusher.

a maybe KR type

and two potential backup OLine guys, that may be around in three years, if they survive they may become starters when nalen retires.

So out of 13 taken in the last two years, I'll bet 4 maybe around in 3 years, barring injury. 2 might make it past their rookie contracts.

2004 draft he has ONE player left from that one out of 10 taken.

2005 has 3.5 left out of 6 after training camp probably meyers and maybe foxworth a perennial at best nickle or dime back.

2006 now this one will make or break Mikey as a GM. Or most likely spare Pat from pulling his plug on making draft choice for a couple more years.

But mark my words his lackluster at best draft record will eventually assure Pat hiring a legit GM to oversee the draft if nothing else. This one will be a big I told you so when it happens.

NickTranOwnz
04-07-2007, 12:32 PM
Wow! Deja vu! I was reading some stuff about Dumervil being OLB a few days ago.

But he's too slow.

rcsodak
04-07-2007, 01:19 PM
I was thinking NO WAY!!!!!! HE'S DEAD!
:confused:


:goofy:

Broncosinindy
04-07-2007, 01:57 PM
JRWIZ

2006 now this one will make or break Mikey as a GM. Or most likely spare Pat from pulling his plug on making draft choice for a couple more years.

But mark my words his lackluster at best draft record will eventually assure Pat hiring a legit GM to oversee the draft if nothing else. This one will be a big I told you so when it happens.[/QUOTE]



I aggree i am not all impressed with shannys draft record. But then again there are alot of teams i could say the same thing about.. now on the other hand Shanny has pulled the triger on some block buster type trades in the past..ayhr two Javon Walker and Champ trades are all time classics.

Dream
04-07-2007, 02:20 PM
Elvis probably could play linebacker, but why would we want that? Even if Elvis never develops into a three down lineman, I'm okay with that. Role players like Dumervil who can rush the passer have niches on teams and people like him shouldn't be underestimated. He had a successful rookie campaign, and I'm sure he wants to be better and do better and eventually become a starter. If so great, but I'm fine with having a kid who can get after the quarterback on third-downs and score in the sack range he's in consistently. The saddest thing about all of this is that Elvis playing a limited number of snaps had more sacks than any starter. Pathetic for the rest of the players, great for Elvis.

Keep him as a DE, even if it's situational - role players are good things.

stnzed
04-07-2007, 02:29 PM
Elvis probably could play linebacker, but why would we want that? Even if Elvis never develops into a three down lineman, I'm okay with that. Role players like Dumervil who can rush the passer have niches on teams and people like him shouldn't be underestimated. He had a successful rookie campaign, and I'm sure he wants to be better and do better and eventually become a starter. If so great, but I'm fine with having a kid who can get after the quarterback on third-downs and score in the sack range he's in consistently. The saddest thing about all of this is that Elvis playing a limited number of snaps had more sacks than any starter. Pathetic for the rest of the players, great for Elvis.

Keep him as a DE, even if it's situational - role players are good things.


But if Dumervil doesn't start SOMEWHERE the world just may come to an end!

"We didn't draft him to sit on the bench"

chickennob2
04-07-2007, 03:45 PM
The way I see it, Dumerville is not that great of a specimen. He is short, playing at a weight too light for DL and too heavy for LB. He is not fast with only a good burst. He's not strong enough to push anyone around on the line What makes him great, both in college and last year in the Pro's is his technique. He had the most developed set of pass rush moves of any DE that was drafted last year. he uses his long arms very well to fend off blockers and make a play in the backfield. If he were a great athletic specimen with high potential and no real defined position, it might make sense to move him to LB. But as it is, he's a technician. He uses his knowledge of the DE position and his well-practiced skill set to make plays. If you move him to anywhere other than DE, you are taking away his strongest attribute.

I'm not buying it. Leave him at DE.