View Poll Results: will joey bosa be a bust?

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  • YES! wrong system and the chargers made a mistake drafting him!

    9 29.03%
  • NO! the kid can ball and will still have his hand in the dirt a lot!

    7 22.58%
  • too early to tell, same with all draft picks.

    15 48.39%
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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by arapaho View Post
    we understand you are a little confused over the 3rd overall picks worth discussion seeing as you didn't have a 1st round pick


    why was that again?
    I just learned he is really confused, apparently he thinks John Elway built our team by overpaying free agents. 4 of our 22 starters were big free agent signings so we bought our Superbowl.

  2. #32
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    I think its very unrealistic to say a player has to be equally as good as another, in order to not be a bust. That is a silly way to gage what does or doesn't make someone a bust.

    Using that logic, if Cam doesn't win as many championships as other top 10 QB draft picks he's a bust. Any shooting guard drafted in the top 10 in the NBA has to be as good as Jordan or they are a bust.

    See how silly that sounds?

    Is Bosa a bust? Hell if I know the guy has yet to even play in the NFL.

    Being drafted in the top 10 means the team is looking at you as a franchise player. If a player fails to live up to being a franchise player, then he is a bust. If he does live up to that, then he isn't.

    What makes someone a franchise player is dictated by that team and what their stat expectations are. If the Chargers says in order to be a franchise player, Bosa have to get 10 sacks a season for each year of Bosa rookie contract, and Bosa doesn't do that, then by him failing to mean their requirement to be a franchise player, he'd be a bust.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by 58Miller View Post
    I don't want to put words in your mouth, are you saying Aaron Rodgers and Drew Brees are late 1st Rd talents? I would argue both would be #1 overall picks in their respected drafts if they were re-done.
    Are you going to hold Carson Wentz and Jared Goff to the same standard as Lynch?
    Two teams Mortgaged their futures on those guys, Elway gave up a 3rd rd pick to select Lynch.
    Players taken at the end of the 1st Rd should be at the least above average starters, but they are not held to the same standard as a 3rd overall pick.
    i'm saying they were drafted arounf the same spot, using your flawed logic against you. we are talking value here if you are using the argument of bust status. i don't think anybody on the planet thinks that if bosa doesn't become jj watt then hes a bust, thats one of the dumber things i have read recently.

    I would say Paxton Lynch once he starts needs to put up Teddy Bridgewater, to Derek Carr numbers and by the end of his career be somewhere between Flacco & Chad Pennington.
    he will have to be a solid starter and keep his job and be at least a decent starter to be considered not a bust there, simple as that. i think it's pretty stupid to say there is a threshold of players he must be better than in order to not be considered a bust.

    if lynch doesn't turn out to be the guy and washes out of the league or becomes a career back up like mark sanchez? then he is a bust.

    See Baphs top 3 draft picks have to be great or considered a bust. Your boy Bosa has to at least be considered a top 10 talent in 4 years or he was at the least a reach. Paxton Lynch really just needs to out play guys like Cosy Kessler, Conor Cook, Jacoby Brisset, and Dak Prescott. If he ends up being better than Wentz or Goff he is a steal. Bosa not only has to be the best DE including especially Buckner but he needs to be better than Ramsey, Stanley, Tunsil, Floyd, Elliot and everybody else in the 1st Rd minus the two Qbs.
    again, bosa needs to be an impact player and go to multiple pro bowls to justify where they took him, i'm not denying that. but to say he has to be better than all other guys drafted after, as good as jj watt, or he is a bust? do you not see how stupid that sounds?

    so let me guess, lynch must also be better than every other player in the draft that was drafted after him or he will be a bust? he will have to be as good as aaron rogers or drew brees or he will be considered a bust? this is your flawed logic and i seriously doubt you actually believe this.

    I'm not saying he has to be JJ Watt but he needs to be one of the best players from this draft at least a top 10 talent. he will be compared to those in this draft not others drafts.
    A good example would be the 2005 draft. None of the top 10 drafted players turned out to be franchise picks. Demarcus Ware at #11 is the first great player followed by Thomas Davis at #14, Derrick Johnson at #15, and then the best player taken in the first rd was Aaron Rodgers at #24.
    Alex Smith has turned out to be a good starter in the NFL and in my opinion if he was taken 24th overall that wouldn't have been a bad pick but as a Qb taken #1 overall you better be the franchise's savior or you are a bust! Positional players are not held to the same standard as Qbs.
    yes you did say he has to be comparable to watt and i agree he must play like a top 10 player to justify where they took him. if bosa becomes the impact player he is capable of and goes to multiple pro bowls, that will fit the bill.

    unless you mean to tell me that a multi year probowler should be labeled a bust if another player drafted after him turns out slightly better? he would be the first multi year probowler in history to be labeled a bust, i will tell you that.

    oh and IMO any QB taken in the first should be NFL ready or at least close to it and lynch isnt. but i don't blame elway for trading up and reaching for lynch in the first, he petty much had no other choice and lynch does fit your system, if he works out in a year or two.


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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by InsaneBlaze23 View Post
    I think its very unrealistic to say a player has to be equally as good as another, in order to not be a bust. That is a silly way to gage what does or doesn't make someone a bust.

    Using that logic, if Cam doesn't win as many championships as other top 10 QB draft picks he's a bust. Any shooting guard drafted in the top 10 in the NBA has to be as good as Jordan or they are a bust.

    See how silly that sounds?

    Is Bosa a bust? Hell if I know the guy has yet to even play in the NFL.

    Being drafted in the top 10 means the team is looking at you as a franchise player. If a player fails to live up to being a franchise player, then he is a bust. If he does live up to that, then he isn't.

    What makes someone a franchise player is dictated by that team and what their stat expectations are. If the Chargers says in order to be a franchise player, Bosa have to get 10 sacks a season for each year of Bosa rookie contract, and Bosa doesn't do that, then by him failing to mean their requirement to be a franchise player, he'd be a bust.
    ^ this guy gets it at least.

    i think it's safe to say that if bosa goes to multiple pro bowls and has a disruptive impact by getting to the QB and stopping the run, then he will live up to where the chargers picked him.

    it's really as simple as that.


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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Rod- View Post
    I thought Buckner would be the pick because he was a perfect fit. Bosa is better than Buckner as a player overall. I guess he will play OLB and move to DE on nickel formations. This is not much different than Denver passing on a need and perfect fit like Dareus to get their BPA, Miller.

    I voted "NO! the kid can ball and will still have his hand in the dirt a lot!"
    no, he will be the starting DE. i posted a great article explaining how the chargers defense will likely use him, here it is again.

    http://www.elevenwarriors.com/ohio-s...os-3-4-defense

    During a draft-night interview Chargers’ defensive coordinator John Pagano (a Wade Phillips disciple) left little question as to Bosa’s fit in his 3-4 scheme.

    “We see him as a five-technique in our base defense,” Said Pagano. “He’s a defensive end in our sub defense. Everybody wants to rate everything off of base defense these days, and the last two or three years we’ve been in sub defense, which would be a nickel or a dime defense -- a four-down look. I think our numbers were at 70 percent.”

    During the Chargers’ post-draft press conference General Manager Tom Telesco noted the Florida natives’ versatility saying “He’s an outstanding pass rusher, on the edge and moving him inside to rush, but in addition to that, he plays the run extremely well. So for us, he’s very balanced. To find a player to help us in both areas, which we think we need, he’s not just strictly a pass rusher.”

    Bosa agrees with his new teams’ assessment, saying “I think I can fit wherever they want me.” He went on to add “You’re in base 70 percent of the time, so it really doesn’t make much of a difference. My versatility is something I think this team liked, so they’re going to put me where they see fit, and they’re going to find the best spot for me to help the team win.”

    After allowing former strong-side defensive end Kendall Reyes to walk in free agency, Bosa will move into a clearly-defined role within San Diego’s base and sub package defense as a 5-technique on run downs, before sliding outside obvious passing situations. Bosa will rarely be asked to play 2-gaps from this alignment, instead 1-gapping or run stunting with other defensive linemen and linebackers.
    he will be moving up and down the DL, doubt we will see him playing any OLB but you never know i guess?


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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by atwaterandstir View Post
    His best move is the bull rush against Penn State walk- ons.

    He will get eaten alive by NFL tackles.
    I'm voting Buster Douglas.
    LMAO!! it all makes sense now! he just dominated against penn st.'s walk on's with a bull rush.......

    if i was like a lot of the broncos fans here, this is the part where i call you a troll and cry endlessly.


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  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by InsaneBlaze23 View Post
    I think its very unrealistic to say a player has to be equally as good as another, in order to not be a bust. That is a silly way to gage what does or doesn't make someone a bust.

    Using that logic, if Cam doesn't win as many championships as other top 10 QB draft picks he's a bust. Any shooting guard drafted in the top 10 in the NBA has to be as good as Jordan or they are a bust.

    See how silly that sounds?

    Is Bosa a bust? Hell if I know the guy has yet to even play in the NFL.

    Being drafted in the top 10 means the team is looking at you as a franchise player. If a player fails to live up to being a franchise player, then he is a bust. If he does live up to that, then he isn't.

    What makes someone a franchise player is dictated by that team and what their stat expectations are. If the Chargers says in order to be a franchise player, Bosa have to get 10 sacks a season for each year of Bosa rookie contract, and Bosa doesn't do that, then by him failing to mean their requirement to be a franchise player, he'd be a bust.
    Cam Newton is not bust, he was a great value pick in the draft and that draft was loaded.

    Do you think Alex Smith was a bust? How bout Sam Bradford? Both are busts in my book. They are both starting Qbs but never lived up to their teams investment.

    Other notable busts in my opinion:
    Robert Ayers and Knowshon Moreno, two former first rd picks who started but never lived up to our teams investment in them.
    Knowshon is now out of the league and Ayers is on to his 3rd team in 4 years.
    Last edited by 58Miller; 05-03-2016 at 01:04 PM.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by baphamet View Post
    i'm saying they were drafted arounf the same spot, using your flawed logic against you. we are talking value here if you are using the argument of bust status. i don't think anybody on the planet thinks that if bosa doesn't become jj watt then hes a bust, thats one of the dumber things i have read recently.



    he will have to be a solid starter and keep his job and be at least a decent starter to be considered not a bust there, simple as that. i think it's pretty stupid to say there is a threshold of players he must be better than in order to not be considered a bust.

    if lynch doesn't turn out to be the guy and washes out of the league or becomes a career back up like mark sanchez? then he is a bust.



    again, bosa needs to be an impact player and go to multiple pro bowls to justify where they took him, i'm not denying that. but to say he has to be better than all other guys drafted after, as good as jj watt, or he is a bust? do you not see how stupid that sounds?

    so let me guess, lynch must also be better than every other player in the draft that was drafted after him or he will be a bust? he will have to be as good as aaron rogers or drew brees or he will be considered a bust? this is your flawed logic and i seriously doubt you actually believe this.



    yes you did say he has to be comparable to watt and i agree he must play like a top 10 player to justify where they took him. if bosa becomes the impact player he is capable of and goes to multiple pro bowls, that will fit the bill.

    unless you mean to tell me that a multi year probowler should be labeled a bust if another player drafted after him turns out slightly better? he would be the first multi year probowler in history to be labeled a bust, i will tell you that.

    oh and IMO any QB taken in the first should be NFL ready or at least close to it and lynch isnt. but i don't blame elway for trading up and reaching for lynch in the first, he petty much had no other choice and lynch does fit your system, if he works out in a year or two.
    Lynch will need to eventually win the starting job in the next 3 years, after that he will probably get at least 2 years to see what he can do in this league. If he fails to win the starting job, or cant hack it as a starter I would call him a bust.

    Bosa needs to start day 1 in my opinion, and no their is not a post where I state Bosa has to be the same as Watt. I brought up players like Seymour, Watt, and Peppers to give you an idea of successful DE's that have been taken early. Other DE's taken early include Tyson Jackson, Derrick Harvey, Barkavios Mingo, Dion Jordan ,Jadevion Clowney Mario Williams, and Chris Long. None of these guys lived up to their invested pick. Mario Williams is a very good player but #1 overall, and now on his 3rd NFL team? Chris Long pretty good but hasn't been able to stay healthy and now on to his second team.
    Smack aside, the comparison I got of Joey Bosa was Ryan Kerrigan a 3-4 outside linebacker for the Redskins as what Bosa could be in the NFL. I think Kerrigan is a good football player but I wouldn't draft him at #3.
    And you can say I said whatever you want. Bottom line is in 2 to 4 years Joey Bosa will be a household name as one of the leagues top DE's or in my book a bust if he is just an average player.
    Last edited by 58Miller; 05-03-2016 at 01:06 PM.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freyaka View Post
    If they were going to go the route they went, someone who fits their scheme would be nice (he does not, despite your protests otherwise) I still think you should have went o-line, but even if you didn't go o-line you let the best player in the draft Jalen Ramsey pass you by.

    If you are drafting for need, IMO it's o-line, if you are drafting BPA, Bosa isn't it, Ramsey is by a mile.
    go read the article i posted and then come back and talk to me, really read it man. you will probably learn a thing or two about your own defense as well because it applies.

    again, according to pff bosa absolutely was the BPA and plays the position of the greatest need on the chargers team. the chargers literally have nobody, they got rid of their crap starter and after him there is nobody.

    chargers needs going into the draft were.....

    1. DE
    2. center
    3. TE
    4. saftey
    5. OL/ depth

    they filled all those needs except for safety which will be a bit of a question mark. but they brought in dwight lowery who is no weddle but a decent starter, so nowhere near as much of a need as DE was.

    no it wasn't ramsey by a mile, just as many other people were saying it was tunisl. the main reason people were not hyping bosa at #3 is because of the 3-4 system fit and he fell off a little bit after the combine.

    before the combine most said it was bosa and the chargers agreed, i think Dallas agreed too.



    but again, they intend to use him on the edge with his hand in the dirt most of the time, just like he did in college.

    i think the scheme fit thing is irrelevant at this point, he needs to produce, plain and simple.


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  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by 58Miller View Post
    Lynch will need to eventually win the starting job in the next 3 years, after that he will probably get at least 2 years to see what he can do in this league.
    Bosa needs to start day 1 in my opinion, and no their is not a post where I state Bosa has to be the same as Watt. I brought up players like Seymour, Watt, and Peppers to give you an idea of successful DE's that have been taken early. Other DE's taken early include Tyson Jackson, Derrick Harvey, Barkavios Mingo, Dion Jordan ,Jadevion Clowney Mario Williams, and Chris Long.
    bosa is the starter right now man lol

    i don't think you understand, the chargers have nobody currently holding bosa's position. bosa will get every chance to succeed and i think we are in agreement that he has to be an impact player and be a multi year probowler to justify being picked 3rd overall.

    not sure why this is a debate.


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  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by baphamet View Post
    bosa is the starter right now man lol

    i don't think you understand, the chargers have nobody currently holding bosa's position. bosa will get every chance to succeed and i think we are in agreement that he has to be an impact player and be a multi year probowler to justify being picked 3rd overall.

    not sure why this is a debate.
    Its not a debate, and I know Bosa will start right away when you go #3 overall you have to start. At DE in your defense his tackles and sacks wont even be an issue but like you said he will need to be an impact player. Pro Bowls to me are overrated, and I doubt if he is in a role like Derek Wolfe he will get the credit he deserves because he will have to beat out guys like 97 Everson Griffen (Minnesota Vikings) , 94 Cameron Jordan (New Orleans Saints) ,52 Khalil Mack (Oakland Raiders), 94 Ezekiel Ansah (Detroit Lions), 72 Michael Bennett (Seattle Seahawks),96 Carlos Dunlap (Cincinnati Bengals) these were last years Pro Bowl selections. And some of those guys were replacement picks for 95 Chandler Jones (New England Patriots), 99 J. J. Watt (Houston Texans), and 96 Muhammad Wilkerson (New York Jets).
    But who knows I've been wrong before, I just think he fits a 4-3 team like Seattle or Carolina better.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by baphamet View Post
    go read the article i posted and then come back and talk to me, really read it man. you will probably learn a thing or two about your own defense as well because it applies.

    again, according to pff bosa absolutely was the BPA and plays the position of the greatest need on the chargers team. the chargers literally have nobody, they got rid of their crap starter and after him there is nobody.

    chargers needs going into the draft were.....

    1. DE
    2. center
    3. TE
    4. saftey
    5. OL/ depth

    they filled all those needs except for safety which will be a bit of a question mark. but they brought in dwight lowery who is no weddle but a decent starter, so nowhere near as much of a need as DE was.

    no it wasn't ramsey by a mile, just as many other people were saying it was tunisl. the main reason people were not hyping bosa at #3 is because of the 3-4 system fit and he fell off a little bit after the combine.

    before the combine most said it was bosa and the chargers agreed, i think Dallas agreed too.



    but again, they intend to use him on the edge with his hand in the dirt most of the time, just like he did in college.

    i think the scheme fit thing is irrelevant at this point, he needs to produce, plain and simple.
    Hahahaha! That's how they looked after we moved up and got Lynch too!

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by baphamet View Post
    then answer my question, who should they have taken and why?
    They should've taken Ramsey .... imagine Verrett and Ramsey together in the backfield!!!

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jermz79 View Post
    They should've taken Ramsey .... imagine Verrett and Ramsey together in the backfield!!!
    That's what I was worried about, and this draft was full of DE's who they could have gotten in the second or third.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jermz79 View Post
    They should've taken Ramsey .... imagine Verrett and Ramsey together in the backfield!!!
    maybe but the need wasn't as much as DE and apparently the chargers felt bosa was the better player overall. i would have been fine if they drafted ramsey but the chargers still have flowers who can hopefully have a bounce back season so CB wasn't one of the bigger needs and thr chargers brought in dwight lowery to play saftey so that wasn't a huge need either.

    also the chargers wouldn't have hunter henry right now either, who was by far the best TE of the draft.

    so instead of taking ramsey and then likely a guy like chris jones who might not even been top 5 at his position. the chargers got the best DE and best TE of the draft 1 and 2, 2 of their 3 biggest needs as well.

    i'm surprised nobody has mentioned the chargers should of taken myles jack with their second pick because he was there and was taken right after they took henry.

    forget ramsey and verrett, imagine joey bosa and myles jack? they could have pulled the trigger but then they would not have henry and i was not a fan of any of the other TE's really and the obvious injury concerns with his knee are real.

    but i like what they did on paper, it might be my favorite tom telesco draft so far but it's yet to be seen if it works out, we will see.


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