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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich_C View Post
    Why would anyone in their right mind remove a guy from his role as DC who has a top 10 defense in the league aND I'm many categoriES sits atop the league. Defensive minded coach or not. In addition as a franchise we have shown that winning is great but it is how you win. So if the new HC doesn't win or shows that with the clear talent we have on defense he cannot maintain its high level of play we've already shown we will happily part ways.

    Because the new coach coming in has someone he knows and trusts? Wade Phillips is a very good DC, but it's not like he's the only good DC out there. If you give a good defensive mind the same players, they'll probably get similar results.

    I'm not advocating one way or the other.
    "I never lose, I either win or I learn."

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butler By'Note View Post
    Because the new coach coming in has someone he knows and trusts? Wade Phillips is a very good DC, but it's not like he's the only good DC out there. If you give a good defensive mind the same players, they'll probably get similar results.

    I'm not advocating one way or the other.
    The players Denver has are more suited to one-gap/spill run D, and are well built to defend the pass.

    If a new DC wanted to go two-gap, D-Linemen who can command a double and bigger Backers would be needed. It is possible that some of those might be obtainable, but not all in one offseason. Switching to two-gap would probably detract from the level of attention demanded by the offense.
    "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by samparnell View Post
    Lots of conspiracy theories here which are pure speculation. No mention of Kubiak's health issues, some of which are documented public knowledge.
    Agree. I admire and respect him even more for the courage to address his situation. It takes a lot of courage to step away from something you love doing. He publicly admitted that because of health concerns he could not do the job the way he knows best. All of us should strive to conduct themselves like Gary Kubiak.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by samparnell View Post
    The players Denver has are more suited to one-gap/spill run D, and are well built to defend the pass.

    If a new DC wanted to go two-gap, D-Linemen who can command a double and bigger Backers would be needed. It is possible that some of those might be obtainable, but not all in one offseason. Switching to two-gap would probably detract from the level of attention demanded by the offense.
    They're not suited for a 2 gap defense at all, they'd need 3 to 4 new full time starters to pull that transition off. But I'm not a fan of the under defense either. I prefer a true 40 and I think Miller should be playing DE in that true 40. He's a dominant player in the box, outside of the occasional wrinkle, he shouldn't be dropping into coverage.

    The AFC Championship last year was a good wrinkle, he lined up as the 7 technique like he normally does, and then he dropped.

    This season there were too many times where a player would motion across and then Miller would plus out with him for man to man coverage. That's not good.
    "I never lose, I either win or I learn."

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butler By'Note View Post
    They're not suited for a 2 gap defense at all, they'd need 3 to 4 new full time starters to pull that transition off. But I'm not a fan of the under defense either. I prefer a true 40 and I think Miller should be playing DE in that true 40. He's a dominant player in the box, outside of the occasional wrinkle, he shouldn't be dropping into coverage.

    The AFC Championship last year was a good wrinkle, he lined up as the 7 technique like he normally does, and then he dropped.

    This season there were too many times where a player would motion across and then Miller would plus out with him for man to man coverage. That's not good.
    If you like Miller as a 5/9 tech in a split front, do you want Ray and Barrett as 5/9 techs, too? Split fronts can be attacked at the edge by an angle blocked rushing attack. Wouldn't you worry about the run D?
    "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

  6. #21
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    Out of all the candidates I've seen, I hate Vance Joseph the most. If anyone can explain to me why he is the man for the job I'm all ears. I have a better resume, the guy has accomplished zip, zero, zilch in the NFL. I don't understand why anyone would want him.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butler By'Note View Post
    They're not suited for a 2 gap defense at all, they'd need 3 to 4 new full time starters to pull that transition off. But I'm not a fan of the under defense either. I prefer a true 40 and I think Miller should be playing DE in that true 40. He's a dominant player in the box, outside of the occasional wrinkle, he shouldn't be dropping into coverage.

    The AFC Championship last year was a good wrinkle, he lined up as the 7 technique like he normally does, and then he dropped.

    This season there were too many times where a player would motion across and then Miller would plus out with him for man to man coverage. That's not good.
    I loved that play!

    Didn't he also do the same thing in the SB defending a pass down the side line that could have been a TD?

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by KWHIT97 View Post
    Out of all the candidates I've seen, I hate Vance Joseph the most. If anyone can explain to me why he is the man for the job I'm all ears. I have a better resume, the guy has accomplished zip, zero, zilch in the NFL. I don't understand why anyone would want him.
    May we see it?
    "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

  9. #24
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    I coached 3 straight pee wee football teams to undefeated seasons and league titles, 21 wins in a row. Doesn't sound like much huh? It's way more than Joseph has accomplished. He led a very talented Miami D to a ranking of 30th in the league. He is hot trash and should be coaching at my level.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by samparnell View Post
    If you like Miller as a 5/9 tech in a split front, do you want Ray and Barrett as 5/9 techs, too? Split fronts can be attacked at the edge by an angle blocked rushing attack. Wouldn't you worry about the run D?
    Yes, although that would have both Broncos ends a little on the light side. But that's where all 3 are better off playing in my mind, I don't look at them as coverage players. On base downs it might be best to have Williams (if he were re-signed) at 3 tech and then have Wolfe as the strong side end. On passing downs, do what they do now and just bump Wolfe into the 3 tech spot.

    The Broncos are pretty much in a split front, they just call it a 3-4. But they've got the 1 tech, a lot of time they'll have the 3 tech (occasionally he'll be a 4) they've got a 5 tech those are the 3 down linemen, then you've got the 6 tech on the weak side (really just a stand up end) and the 7 tech on the strong side, which is just a Sam walked up.
    "I never lose, I either win or I learn."

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by KWHIT97 View Post
    I coached 3 straight pee wee football teams to undefeated seasons and league titles, 21 wins in a row. Doesn't sound like much huh? It's way more than Joseph has accomplished. He led a very talented Miami D to a ranking of 30th in the league. He is hot trash and should be coaching at my level.
    Congrats. Instead of being negative about Vance Joseph allegedly having "no resume", which candidate do you feel has one? BTW you might want to check on what a resume is. Everyone has a resume of some kind.
    "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by KWHIT97 View Post
    I coached 3 straight pee wee football teams to undefeated seasons and league titles, 21 wins in a row. Doesn't sound like much huh? It's way more than Joseph has accomplished. He led a very talented Miami D to a ranking of 30th in the league. He is hot trash and should be coaching at my level.

    He's coached in the NFL since 2005, he's been paid to do that, by people who feel he's qualified. You volunteered to coach 10/11 year olds. You'd think if he was as horrible coach as you believe he probably wouldn't be hired by qualified football people to continue coaching football for a living. My guess is that your opinion might be wrong.
    "I never lose, I either win or I learn."

  13. #28
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    He simply is not who I want leading our Broncos. He might be good at what he does, all I know is what I can read, and he has been a D coordinator for 1 year, his D was ranked 30th in the NFL. McCoy, Shanahan, Marrone, heck even McDaniels are 10 times more qualified than him.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by KWHIT97 View Post
    He simply is not who I want leading our Broncos. He might be good at what he does, all I know is what I can read, and he has been a D coordinator for 1 year, his D was ranked 30th in the NFL. McCoy, Shanahan, Marrone, heck even McDaniels are 10 times more qualified than him.
    I'm not concerned with the 1 year as a coordinator, nor where that defense ranked. With a guy who hasn't been much of a coordinator during his career, the odds increase greatly that he'll have a DC with autonomy to do what he wants. Mike Tomlin comes to mind, he was a 1 year coordinator and was a staunch 4-3 guy (I believe he was a Tampa 2 guy) but he kept Dick Lebeau and let him do his thing with his 3-4.

    I'm more concerned with how Joseph deals with other coaches and players. Does he deal with them in a way they respect? Is he a leader? When he gives a rah rah speech will they follow?

    Those are what matter, because the odds are that he's not going to be running the defense. If Elway believes he's that guy, I'm okay with that.

    Question: Are you uncomfortable with him thinking he'll come in and want to do everything with the defense? Would you be more comfortable with him if he came in and immediately announced he's keeping Phillips and the entire defensive staff?
    "I never lose, I either win or I learn."

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butler By'Note View Post
    I'm not concerned with the 1 year as a coordinator, nor where that defense ranked. With a guy who hasn't been much of a coordinator during his career, the odds increase greatly that he'll have a DC with autonomy to do what he wants. Mike Tomlin comes to mind, he was a 1 year coordinator and was a staunch 4-3 guy (I believe he was a Tampa 2 guy) but he kept Dick Lebeau and let him do his thing with his 3-4.

    I'm more concerned with how Joseph deals with other coaches and players. Does he deal with them in a way they respect? Is he a leader? When he gives a rah rah speech will they follow?

    Those are what matter, because the odds are that he's not going to be running the defense. If Elway believes he's that guy, I'm okay with that.

    Question: Are you uncomfortable with him thinking he'll come in and want to do everything with the defense? Would you be more comfortable with him if he came in and immediately announced he's keeping Phillips and the entire defensive staff?
    One thing for everyone to keep in mind about HC candidates is that position coach is different from coordinator which is different from head coach. A great position coach may never be a great coordinator, and a great coordinator may never be a great head coach. Each has its own job description and are three very different jobs.
    "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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