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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butler By'Note View Post
    I'm not sure why it matters what Mecklenburg thinks? Joseph stated it clearly in the press conference, there will be an open battle in the offseason and training camp, the best QB will be the starter. It's pretty simple. Unless someone offers a decent draft pick for Siemian, I see no reason to cut him, let him stay, let him show his stuff, if he's not the future, and Lynch is, Lynch will hopefully win the job.
    Football politics.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butler By'Note View Post
    I'm not sure why it matters what Mecklenburg thinks? Joseph stated it clearly in the press conference, there will be an open battle in the offseason and training camp, the best QB will be the starter. It's pretty simple. Unless someone offers a decent draft pick for Siemian, I see no reason to cut him, let him stay, let him show his stuff, if he's not the future, and Lynch is, Lynch will hopefully win the job.
    I think most here understand all of that, Trevor isn't the worse qb ever and will compete for the job barring an unexpected trade. However, he is also very over rated on this board. Paxton played terrible in the very limited time he got, but Trevor was also pretty terrible when we needed him the most. I think as Broncos fans we should be hoping for Paxton to take a big step this offseason.
    If we ever forget that we are One Nation Under God, then we will be a nation gone under.
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  3. #18
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    We're not going to be able to fairly compare these 2 QB's to be completely honest with ourselves.

    If we're to believe what was intimated by Meck, Kubiak was a key ingredient to both Trevor's successes but also responsible for holding Lynch back. Last season there was no doubt Trevor was the better choice at QB for the Broncos.

    With McCoy and Elway taking charge of this offense now though, maybe Trevor ends up folding playing the way they want Lynch to play. Lynch couldn't really be Trevor. Trevor probably can't be Lynch so ........ it's not all so black and white.

    With an entire offense designed around Paxton's strengths he could look a whole lot better. And if Trevor lives up to that challenge too, then so be it. But it's quite unclear to try and see how he'd do if the roles were reversed and the offense was built more toward a Lynch style.
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  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by broncos SB2010 View Post
    Really no idea why so many here are so sold on Siemian. I was pulling for him just like everyone else and even claimed he should be the starter during this past TC. However, he does not look like he has the skills to be a true NFL long term starter. He made plays here and there but so did a QB who will not be named. The longer the season went on, the more apparent it became to me. IMO, Siemian will NOT be the QB next season and very well may not be on the team. yes, i understand that would create another opening that needs filling but if they decide to go with paxton, Siemain may be cut just to give him piece of mind.
    Totally agree.
    #swapping

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJBroncoFan View Post
    I think most here understand all of that, Trevor isn't the worse qb ever and will compete for the job barring an unexpected trade. However, he is also very over rated on this board. Paxton played terrible in the very limited time he got, but Trevor was also pretty terrible when we needed him the most. I think as Broncos fans we should be hoping for Paxton to take a big step this offseason.
    Paxton and Trevor had identical completion percentages and similar yards per attempt, passer rating, TD percentage, and INT percentage. Trevor did play better overall, but his sample size was considerably larger. I don't think it is fair to say Lynch played terrible while praising Simian at the same time (not that you were).

    The gap between them right now is small. Given an offseason in a new offense one would hope that Lynch's continued development and superior skill set will allow him to claim the starting job early in OTA's and training camp.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Den615 View Post
    Paxton and Trevor had identical completion percentages and similar yards per attempt, passer rating, TD percentage, and INT percentage. Trevor did play better overall, but his sample size was considerably larger. I don't think it is fair to say Lynch played terrible while praising Simian at the same time (not that you were).

    The gap between them right now is small. Given an offseason in a new offense one would hope that Lynch's continued development and superior skill set will allow him to claim the starting job early in OTA's and training camp.
    I don't think there's a large gap at all, but the difference between the two this season was noticeable. Siemian looked like he had a place in the NFL, whether it's as a starter or a backup QB remains to be seen. But he looked like he could play in the league. And in the second half of the first KC game you could see him start to make better decisions, like the game was starting to slow down for him. Lynch never had that point where the game looked like it was slowing down for him. Everything looked like he was feeling rushed and trying to work his way through things while having no luck. Siemian did have a lot more playing time, but the Broncos need for Lynch to get to that point where the game starts to slow down for him in order to be able to accurately judge what they have.

    Both get a clean slate and they'll start off at the same spot, but Lynch has more to work on at this point. Of course he also has the larger upside.
    "I never lose, I either win or I learn."

  7. #22
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    I think it's no question

    New offense with hopefully much better blocking, and run game...you start the qb with the biggest upside...the best athletic ability, the bigger arm...and that is lynch

    You can say Trevor was the better choice last year, and it may be true, but let's not act like he set the league on fire...there was also multiple games where he couldnt score tds much less get 1ST downs...until late in games

    If lynch is the future you roll with him

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butler By'Note View Post
    I don't think there's a large gap at all, but the difference between the two this season was noticeable. Siemian looked like he had a place in the NFL, whether it's as a starter or a backup QB remains to be seen. But he looked like he could play in the league. And in the second half of the first KC game you could see him start to make better decisions, like the game was starting to slow down for him. Lynch never had that point where the game looked like it was slowing down for him. Everything looked like he was feeling rushed and trying to work his way through things while having no luck. Siemian did have a lot more playing time, but the Broncos need for Lynch to get to that point where the game starts to slow down for him in order to be able to accurately judge what they have.

    Both get a clean slate and they'll start off at the same spot, but Lynch has more to work on at this point. Of course he also has the larger upside.
    Agree with this. In general I think letting a QB sit on the bench to learn isn't helpful. For the most part you either have it or you don't. The only way to find out and get better is real game experience.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Den615 View Post
    Paxton and Trevor had identical completion percentages and similar yards per attempt, passer rating, TD percentage, and INT percentage. Trevor did play better overall, but his sample size was considerably larger. I don't think it is fair to say Lynch played terrible while praising Simian at the same time (not that you were).

    The gap between them right now is small. Given an offseason in a new offense one would hope that Lynch's continued development and superior skill set will allow him to claim the starting job early in OTA's and training camp.
    I guess that depends on what you mean by small. Paxton looked pretty lost in much of his action, and at times so did Trevor.

    What Trevor had that Lynch didnt, was times were he looked very good, starting caliber good. As you pointed out, Trevor had much more opportunity to showcase his talent, and practiced as the starter all year. I'm not a fan of Trevor as more than a nice backup, but he was the better overall QB last season. I do believe Lynch will take the starting job at some point next season though.
    If we ever forget that we are One Nation Under God, then we will be a nation gone under.
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  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by arapaho View Post
    I think it's no question

    New offense with hopefully much better blocking, and run game...you start the qb with the biggest upside...the best athletic ability, the bigger arm...and that is lynch

    You can say Trevor was the better choice last year, and it may be true, but let's not act like he set the league on fire...there was also multiple games where he couldnt score tds much less get 1ST downs...until late in games

    If lynch is the future you roll with him
    Only if he looks ready to go. If they get to September and he's still struggling with knowing and communicating the plays, or doing the basic mechanical things, then you can't start him, no matter the upside. But if he proves that he's ready to start, then you go with him.
    "I never lose, I either win or I learn."

  11. #26
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    Nearly everything that went wrong with Siemian can be traced to the five guys that lined up in front of him. He had no time in the pocket to read to opposing D and do all of his checkdown. When he did, he still ended up getting hit way too often. Manning or Brady would have had a hard time succeeding with this crap O-line we had. I can almost bet that Trevor was purple from his to his ankles after every game.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJBroncoFan View Post
    I guess that depends on what you mean by small. Paxton looked pretty lost in much of his action, and at times so did Trevor.

    What Trevor had that Lynch didnt, was times were he looked very good, starting caliber good. As you pointed out, Trevor had much more opportunity to showcase his talent, and practiced as the starter all year. I'm not a fan of Trevor as more than a nice backup, but he was the better overall QB last season. I do believe Lynch will take the starting job at some point next season though.
    Lynch really didn't play much so saying Trevor had times where he looked good and Paxton didn't isn't fair, and he played very well against the bucs

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Rod- View Post
    I don't know how people expect Paxton Lynch to just wake up one day this offseason and be a better QB than Trevor Siemian. Or will Elway force Lynch as the starter no matter what? Because it looked like there is a wide gap between Siemian and Lynch. Yes, Lynch can get a lot better with another offseason and training camp, but so can Siemian. Let's not forget that Lynch struggled to learn Kubiak's playbook and now Mike McCoy is bringing a completely new system. Kubiak always hinted that Siemian was the smarter QB that can absorb more information faster. There is a good chance the gap between Siemian and Lynch will only get wider.

    I am not one of Siemian's greatest supporters; I think he's "okay" and needs to get a lot better to make this team competitive. The problem is that Paxton Lynch is way behind. I want a QB that can throw for 4,000+ yards and 30+ touchdowns. The AFC West has become a very competitive division and the Broncos have fallen behind the Raiders and Chiefs. We can't go on hoping for a miracle going into games with only "adequate" or "average" QB play.
    I have seen similar comments here. My response is in part due to a comment which Kubiak made on one of his pressers. It was my understanding that Trevor had two advantages at a minimum over Lynch. The first is that he was given the ability to audible out of a play and into a different one at the LOS. Second it was also my understanding that Kubiak severely restricted the playbook when Lynch was playing and thus he was in some respects playing at a true disadvantage. We will never know 100% all of the specifics but those are two things which over the course of the season were said about Lynch when he played. So basically Lynch's play was either 100% on him missing a read or 100% not on him as the play which he was effectively being forced to run was being blown up by our opponent. With Trevor due to his lack of restrictions his mistakes had the ability to be a lot more complicated. Add onto the fact that Trevor both played and practiced with the 1's and Lynch rarely did.
    Last edited by Rich_C; 01-16-2017 at 06:45 AM.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThreeGees View Post
    Nearly everything that went wrong with Siemian can be traced to the five guys that lined up in front of him. He had no time in the pocket to read to opposing D and do all of his checkdown. When he did, he still ended up getting hit way too often. Manning or Brady would have had a hard time succeeding with this crap O-line we had. I can almost bet that Trevor was purple from his to his ankles after every game.
    This. Those that are saying Siemian doesn't have it don't seem to understand how truly awful our oline was last year. He may have been slightly conservative with the ball, but he still threw plenty of good passes, almost all of them under pressure. The pocket was non existent this season, and instead of forcing throws into tight coverage he made really good decisions with the ball. That, and he never threw his line under the bus, called anyone else out or got frustrated on the sidelines or with the press. He's cool under pressure and mentally tough enough to keep it together when things fall apart. He almost singlehandedly kept us in the KC game in Denver, and had some other games where he looked really good when he had time to throw (Colts, Bengals games).

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butler By'Note View Post
    Only if he looks ready to go. If they get to September and he's still struggling with knowing and communicating the plays, or doing the basic mechanical things, then you can't start him, no matter the upside. But if he proves that he's ready to start, then you go with him.
    That is one way of going or you can go at it from another perspective and see if being thrown into it forces and immediate elevation of play. If in 1-3 games he shows he is not elevating his game play then I think you give Trevor that second shot. Another thing which I think many others here are forgetting is that we split reps this pre-season between three QB's nearly evenly. There was a period of time there where Sanchez was our penciled in starter, or so it seemed. Those reps and that practice has an impact as well. Lynch will have a complete off-season with items to work on coming his way shortly. Based on how far he has progressed already I'd be shocked if he doesn't come in ready to go next season. Now he still has to beat out Trevor but Lynch has shown he can work and work hard to improve,

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