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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by MHS View Post
    If there was strong evidence of him doing this then it was a mistake to hire him and shows a lack of character by Elway

    And I read a few article that say he was cleared by exceptional means

    The information below was taken from someone in the comments section of an article



    The bolded part is what is important... It means that there could have been enough evidence to that VJ to trial but the victims decided to not press charges. Which could also mean they settled outside of court... essentially were paid to not press charges.
    Are you stating an opinion or a fact? Unless you know something the rest of us (and apparently some law enforcement agencies) don't know bolded is irresponsible and misleading. There are two sides to every story, sounds like some drinking and pot smoking ending in (Coc) hope and rejection.

    I hate the media's constant dragging skeletons out of the closet for a quick scoop. Let the man be, focus on football.
    My adopted Bronco is Floyd "The Franchise" Little

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butler By'Note View Post
    Without any charges being filed, and without the case actually going to trial, and Joseph being given his right to a fair trial, I'm not sure how anyone can make any sort of judgment on this? Yes it sounds disturbing, but we have one side and the point of the article (both the initial and then the various ones by other publications) were to make a very sided point of view and leave it at that.

    There are plenty of cases where the person committed a crime, and we hope that justice is realized. But I also think of the case of Patrick Kane, where he was charged with sexual assault, and everyone condemned him, following the investigation the DA refused to bring charges, and then it came out that the alleged victim's mother was involved in a hoax attempt involving the rape kit bag in the case.

    http://www.si.com/nhl/2015/11/05/pat...ges-no-winners

    People will always remember that Patrick Kane was charged with sexual assault, but in the end the prosecution didn't press charges and the victim's mother was caught trying to tamper with (fabricate) evidence. So does he deserve for everyone to remember that? Does he deserve that footnote that will always be attached to him? I personally don't know, but without a trial, is it fair to assume he's guilty?

    And even though I hate Dook, I would also have to mention the Duke lacrosse case.

    If you're going to hire someone for a multi million dollar job you tend to do an extensive background search on them. NFL teams have very good security departments (usually filled with retired detectives and FBI agents) I would assume (hope) they looked into Joseph and uncovered this and came away thinking it was okay to hire him.
    You raise some good points here Butler. Good food for thought. Unfortunately, when you hire someone in a high profile job like this with these kinds of things in their background it opens one up to all kinds of questions and concerns about them. That's just part of the deal. It just is. And I'm sure the Broncos and Vance Joseph had to know this. And I'm sure questions are going to continue to be raised until the media feels they've been answered to their satisfaction.

    Now it's up to me to choose how I move forward. Do I hold on to it or do I give him the benefit of the doubt. At the beginning of the week I was considering no longer being a Bronco fan; I was that upset and pissed off. Sounds pretty extreme to some but many of you know my background so I'm sure you can understand it. I was pissed, angry, and my heart fell to the floor.

    Today, I've put it in more perspective and don't feel so extreme and am willing to give him a go. But I still have questions and he will have to earn my trust. I will file this away as a questionable past (thank you AsianPA) and see how he proceeds from here.
    Adopted Bronco: DeMarcus Ware

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by broncoslover115 View Post
    You raise some good points here Butler. Good food for thought. Unfortunately, when you hire someone in a high profile job like this with these kinds of things in their background it opens one up to all kinds of questions and concerns about them. That's just part of the deal. It just is. And I'm sure the Broncos and Vance Joseph had to know this. And I'm sure questions are going to continue to be raised until the media feels they've been answered to their satisfaction.

    Now it's up to me to choose how I move forward. Do I hold on to it or do I give him the benefit of the doubt. At the beginning of the week I was considering no longer being a Bronco fan; I was that upset and pissed off. Sounds pretty extreme to some but many of you know my background so I'm sure you can understand it. I was pissed, angry, and my heart fell to the floor.

    Today, I've put it in more perspective and don't feel so extreme and am willing to give him a go. But I still have questions and he will have to earn my trust. I will file this away as a questionable past (thank you AsianPA) and see how he proceeds from here.
    I really do appreciate your concerns BL, what irks me is resurrecting a ten or fifteen or in the case of Peyton a twenty year old case for the sake of as it's known in the biz, "Breaking a Scoop".

    VL owes the media nothing! His responsibility is to his family and his team...Our team, I hope this is something we can all get over and more importantly that his apology and intentions moving forward are sincere.

    I think the term "Sleaze-ball" has been used in reference to a lot of reporting by the NY Times in the past. The pot is simply addressing the kettle in this case.
    My adopted Bronco is Floyd "The Franchise" Little

  4. #19
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    The way I take the situation is this, things were going well, he went back to her place, she went to bed and he assumed (incorrectly) that things were going better than they were and she wasn't into it. He left...The end...

    Does it make it right? not necessarily. But I think it's getting blown up quite a bit. It was 15 years ago...We've all made stupid, stupid calls when we were young. (granted, maybe not this type of mistake) I'd have been more worried if he'd tried to go further rather than recognizing that he wasn't getting anywhere any leaving.


    I dunno, just sounds like he picked up on signals he thought were there that were not and took it too far, when he realized he was wrong he left and that was that.


  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taos_Broncomaniac View Post
    I really do appreciate your concerns BL, what irks me is resurrecting a ten or fifteen or in the case of Peyton a twenty year old case for the sake of as it's known in the biz, "Breaking a Scoop".

    VL owes the media nothing! His responsibility is to his family and his team...Our team, I hope this is something we can all get over and more importantly that his apology and intentions moving forward are sincere.

    I think the term "Sleaze-ball" has been used in reference to a lot of reporting by the NY Times in the past. The pot is simply addressing the kettle in this case.
    Thanks Taos for understanding where I was coming from.

    The term "Sleaze-Ball" was used by the woman who spoke to the police, not by the reporter. He was reporting what was said in the police report. What I meant about the media is that I'm sure they are going to ask the questions until they don't. Whether he owes it to anyone or not, is another thing.

    And as I've said, I have come to terms with it by talking to some trusted posters here and others, which is why I have decided to file this away and give him the benefit of the doubt and to be open to see how he proceeds forthwith. It was a shock to me and completely took me off guard. But after my initial feelings I took the time to see it for what it was and decided to give him a go as the HC of my team.
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  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by broncoslover115 View Post
    Thanks Taos for understanding where I was coming from.

    The term "Sleaze-Ball" was used by the woman who spoke to the police, not by the reporter. He was reporting what was said in the police report. What I meant about the media is that I'm sure they are going to ask the questions until they don't. Whether he owes it to anyone or not, is another thing.

    And as I've said, I have come to terms with it by talking to some trusted posters here and others, which is why I have decided to file this away and give him the benefit of the doubt and to be open to see how he proceeds forthwith. It was a shock to me and completely took me off guard. But after my initial feelings I took the time to see it for what it was and decided to give him a go as the HC of my team.
    I am glad you have thought this thing through with a lot of concern, but with objectivity. For me that is the key to most cases.....being objective. Knowing the facts, understanding the environment, hearing both sides.

    I still do not have enough background on this topic, but I tend to go innocent until proven otherwise. Then again, we all know of cases that were not handled correctly, or got off because of power/fame/connections/etc.

    Butler presented a good example of how a case got ahead of itself, given the outcome. Patrick Kane is not new to public controversy, and though many still have concerns about his actions, is it fair that he was made to look guilty before proper judgement was initiated? Was it fair he was booed for a good chunk of the season, probably got tons of threatening mail (for all we know) and will always be associated with a crime he was not guilty of.....based on the verdict. I'll put it another way, if he is 100% innocent, how wrong is it that the court of public opinion gets away with such abuse and irresponsibility? Just something to consider. I haven't read up on the case of late, but as I understand, he was freed of charges (please let me know if I am incorrect).

    So J, my friend, I believe strongly in proof, as I am sure you do. And I am weary of source information. Similarly, I am cautious when there is "smoke". But in the end, as long as we have legal systems with any integrity, and no proof otherwise, I have to side with the law. And until I hear otherwise, he is our Head Coach.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanDB View Post
    I am glad you have thought this thing through with a lot of concern, but with objectivity. For me that is the key to most cases.....being objective. Knowing the facts, understanding the environment, hearing both sides.

    I still do not have enough background on this topic, but I tend to go innocent until proven otherwise. Then again, we all know of cases that were not handled correctly, or got off because of power/fame/connections/etc.

    Butler presented a good example of how a case got ahead of itself, given the outcome. Patrick Kane is not new to public controversy, and though many still have concerns about his actions, is it fair that he was made to look guilty before proper judgement was initiated? Was it fair he was booed for a good chunk of the season, probably got tons of threatening mail (for all we know) and will always be associated with a crime he was not guilty of.....based on the verdict. I'll put it another way, if he is 100% innocent, how wrong is it that the court of public opinion gets away with such abuse and irresponsibility? Just something to consider. I haven't read up on the case of late, but as I understand, he was freed of charges (please let me know if I am incorrect).

    So J, my friend, I believe strongly in proof, as I am sure you do. And I am weary of source information. Similarly, I am cautious when there is "smoke". But in the end, as long as we have legal systems with any integrity, and no proof otherwise, I have to side with the law. And until I hear otherwise, he is our Head Coach.
    Yup. Man, this was a tough week for me being a Bronco fan. This pushed all of my buttons. And it wasn't easy for me to step back and take a moment, listen, read, discuss, write furious private messages, (y'all know who you are and I thank you) and make the choice to give our new HC the time to prove who he is on the field and not decide who he is by these media stories.

    But I still say no to Joe Mixon as others are wanting. What, are you all trying to have me jump off a ledge?
    Last edited by broncoslover115; 01-19-2017 at 11:39 AM.
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  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by broncoslover115 View Post
    Yup. Man, this was a tough week for me being a Bronco fan. This pushed all of my buttons. And it wasn't easy for me to step back and take a moment, listen, read, discuss, write furious private messages, (y'all know who you are and I thank you) and make the choice to give our new HC the time to prove who he is on the field and not decide who he is by these media stories.

    But I still say no to Joe Mixon as others are wanting. What, are you all trying to have me jump off a ledge?
    It's a hard thing to go through. We put so much emotion into our team. They become like family. And this comes up. It's almost like a betrayal.

    As I mentioned one of Cory's posts to you, that's where I stand right now.
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  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peanut View Post
    It's a hard thing to go through. We put so much emotion into our team. They become like family. And this comes up. It's almost like a betrayal.

    As I mentioned one of Cory's posts to you, that's where I stand right now.
    Yeah, it felt like a betrayal. And Cory's post was really good too. As Taos said, "let's get back to winning."
    Adopted Bronco: DeMarcus Ware

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by broncoslover115 View Post
    Yup. Man, this was a tough week for me being a Bronco fan. This pushed all of my buttons. And it wasn't easy for me to step back and take a moment, listen, read, discuss, write furious private messages, (y'all know who you are and I thank you) and make the choice to give our new HC the time to prove who he is on the field and not decide who he is by these media stories.

    But I still say no to Joe Mixon as others are wanting. What, are you all trying to have me jump off a ledge?
    I was trying to get you to jump off a ledge, about 1 inch off the ground!!!

    As for Joe Mixon, which is another thread, you know where I stand. We are on the same ledge. Having said that, I do not have all the details as to what caused what, but I have seen the disturbing outcome. That makes my assessment a little more valid than with regard to VJ. However, if JM proves to me and others that he is a decent person, and proves that he knows what he did was wrong...and hopefully makes amends with that person, I would definitely reconsider. I believe in the human spirit, and the importance of keeping an open mind.

    Off topic a bit, sorry.
    Last edited by CanDB; 01-19-2017 at 12:51 PM.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanDB View Post
    I was trying to get you to jump off a ledge, about 1 inch off the ground!!!

    As for Joe Mixon, which is another thread, you know where I stand. We are on the same ledge. Having said that, I do not have all the details as to what caused what, but I have seen the disturbing outcome. That makes my assessment a little more valid than with regard to VJ. However, if JM proves to me and others that he is a decent person, and proves that he knows what he did was wrong...and hopefully makes amends with that person, I would definitely reconsider. I believe in the human spirit, and the importance of keeping an open mind.

    Off topic a bit, sorry.
    Well I skinned my knees even from the one inch mark.
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  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by broncoslover115 View Post
    Well I skinned my knees even from the one inch mark.
    Band aids in the mail.....

    But in the meant time, you need a lift for all the pain....please eat or drink or do something that makes you happy!!!

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanDB View Post
    So J, my friend, I believe strongly in proof, as I am sure you do. And I am weary of source information. Similarly, I am cautious when there is "smoke". But in the end, as long as we have legal systems with any integrity, and no proof otherwise, I have to side with the law. And until I hear otherwise, he is our Head Coach.
    Are you weary, or wary, or both?

    Superbowl 50 MVP defeats 2015 League MVP, Feb. 7th, 2016

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by LynchMobster View Post
    Are you weary, or wary, or both?

    Oooops....need to proof occasionally. Hey, but that's why you folks are here, right?

    Then again, I am a bit weary as we speak!

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by broncoslover115 View Post
    You raise some good points here Butler. Good food for thought. Unfortunately, when you hire someone in a high profile job like this with these kinds of things in their background it opens one up to all kinds of questions and concerns about them. That's just part of the deal. It just is. And I'm sure the Broncos and Vance Joseph had to know this. And I'm sure questions are going to continue to be raised until the media feels they've been answered to their satisfaction.

    Now it's up to me to choose how I move forward. Do I hold on to it or do I give him the benefit of the doubt. At the beginning of the week I was considering no longer being a Bronco fan; I was that upset and pissed off. Sounds pretty extreme to some but many of you know my background so I'm sure you can understand it. I was pissed, angry, and my heart fell to the floor.

    Today, I've put it in more perspective and don't feel so extreme and am willing to give him a go. But I still have questions and he will have to earn my trust. I will file this away as a questionable past (thank you AsianPA) and see how he proceeds from here.
    I respect your point of view and what you're saying, and I really hope that he's not guilty, not because I want him to be free or for the stain it would leave on the Broncos, but because I wouldn't have wanted the victims (if they were victims) to have had to live with it for this long.

    Unfortunately I disagree with you about the media, the days of Woodward and Bernstein have long since passed. We've gone for good responsible journalism, getting to the bottom of important things, to now having sensationalized journalism, see what you can get out there, get the most attention possible, keep at it to get the most attention possible (regardless of truth) and then keep at it until the next story comes along and then completely forget the last one and move on to the next one being the biggest thing ever. It's sad that news has become ratings and what celebrities are doing instead of getting important stories out there in a responsible and professional manner.
    "I never lose, I either win or I learn."

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