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  1. #31
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    We’ve all made some poor decisions in life, whether due to our selfishness or ignorance, but the majority of us did not wind up with those poor decisions attached to a police report. The fact that the issue was taken even to this level, should definitely be of concern as to the past character of Vance Joseph. No charges were filed and the case appeared long since buried.

    He mentioned of “irresponsibility” and “immaturity” earlier in life, and has since learned from it and grown “as a person, as a coach, as a father, as a husband.” I certainly don’t mean to make light of the seriousness of this case, nor ignore any suffering endured by the victims…but as Butler mentioned, NFL teams will submit an exhaustive background check on hires of this magnitude. There is no question that Elway and Ellis were well aware of this blemish on his record, yet still chose him over other viable candidates. Why? Perhaps this speaks volumes as to the type of coach that Elway believes Vance to be. I also see this as a potential opportunity for Vance to leverage this mistake as a valuable lesson learned, to be imparted on troubled players before they venture down the wrong path. Perhaps a sincere heart to heart talk with a troubled player from a Kyle Shanahan or a Josh McIdiot, just wouldn’t have the same gravity as from a coach like Vance Joseph. Again, I don’t mean to disregard the offense, but perhaps it could yield twice its weight in “good” going forward in helping others make the right decisions in life. One can only hope so.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lumiere View Post
    We’ve all made some poor decisions in life, whether due to our selfishness or ignorance, but the majority of us did not wind up with those poor decisions attached to a police report. The fact that the issue was taken even to this level, should definitely be of concern as to the past character of Vance Joseph. No charges were filed and the case appeared long since buried.

    He mentioned of “irresponsibility” and “immaturity” earlier in life, and has since learned from it and grown “as a person, as a coach, as a father, as a husband.” I certainly don’t mean to make light of the seriousness of this case, nor ignore any suffering endured by the victims…but as Butler mentioned, NFL teams will submit an exhaustive background check on hires of this magnitude. There is no question that Elway and Ellis were well aware of this blemish on his record, yet still chose him over other viable candidates. Why? Perhaps this speaks volumes as to the type of coach that Elway believes Vance to be. I also see this as a potential opportunity for Vance to leverage this mistake as a valuable lesson learned, to be imparted on troubled players before they venture down the wrong path. Perhaps a sincere heart to heart talk with a troubled player from a Kyle Shanahan or a Josh McIdiot, just wouldn’t have the same gravity as from a coach like Vance Joseph. Again, I don’t mean to disregard the offense, but perhaps it could yield twice its weight in “good” going forward in helping others make the right decisions in life. One can only hope so.
    G.....I like to believe that good things can happen from bad experiences. Not always, but often. It's how most of us grow and learn, and appreciate the fate of others. It brings folks together, with similar situations, or at least with those who are in the good business of caring. I hope you are right. We are all working with limited info. Sometimes we do our best to put together the puzzles, with few, sometimes many pieces missing. Some of us, through intellect, common sense, experiences and other means, can see the bigger picture better than others most of the time. In VJ's case, I have to be careful like others in evaluating without enough of the pieces. But a general perspective....he is innocent by law, he has life experiences that he should learn from, and he might be a better mentor as a result, and yes, I have to believe our leaders did an exhaustive vetting before signing him up.
    Last edited by CanDB; 01-19-2017 at 04:18 PM.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lumiere View Post
    We’ve all made some poor decisions in life, whether due to our selfishness or ignorance, but the majority of us did not wind up with those poor decisions attached to a police report. The fact that the issue was taken even to this level, should definitely be of concern as to the past character of Vance Joseph. No charges were filed and the case appeared long since buried.

    He mentioned of “irresponsibility” and “immaturity” earlier in life, and has since learned from it and grown “as a person, as a coach, as a father, as a husband.” I certainly don’t mean to make light of the seriousness of this case, nor ignore any suffering endured by the victims…but as Butler mentioned, NFL teams will submit an exhaustive background check on hires of this magnitude. There is no question that Elway and Ellis were well aware of this blemish on his record, yet still chose him over other viable candidates. Why? Perhaps this speaks volumes as to the type of coach that Elway believes Vance to be. I also see this as a potential opportunity for Vance to leverage this mistake as a valuable lesson learned, to be imparted on troubled players before they venture down the wrong path. Perhaps a sincere heart to heart talk with a troubled player from a Kyle Shanahan or a Josh McIdiot, just wouldn’t have the same gravity as from a coach like Vance Joseph. Again, I don’t mean to disregard the offense, but perhaps it could yield twice its weight in “good” going forward in helping others make the right decisions in life. One can only hope so.
    This is a great post and I appreciate these points, especially the part I underlined. I hadn't heard him say anything about being irresponsible or immature and learning from it, so perhaps this is what he was referring to. But I think you may be right about being able to use those things from the past to share so others don't make the same mistakes.

    I think we all do that. Our strength usually comes from our deepest failings. Thanks for bringing up that point. I think it's really valuable.
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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butler By'Note View Post
    I respect your point of view and what you're saying, and I really hope that he's not guilty, not because I want him to be free or for the stain it would leave on the Broncos, but because I wouldn't have wanted the victims (if they were victims) to have had to live with it for this long.

    Unfortunately I disagree with you about the media, the days of Woodward and Bernstein have long since passed. We've gone for good responsible journalism, getting to the bottom of important things, to now having sensationalized journalism, see what you can get out there, get the most attention possible, keep at it to get the most attention possible (regardless of truth) and then keep at it until the next story comes along and then completely forget the last one and move on to the next one being the biggest thing ever. It's sad that news has become ratings and what celebrities are doing instead of getting important stories out there in a responsible and professional manner.
    Good Post--gotta spread it--but great post. It is a shame.



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  5. #35
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    Not sure about the rest of you, but I wanna party with that guy!

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanDB View Post
    G.....I like to believe that good things can happen from bad experiences. Not always, but often. It's how most of us grow and learn, and appreciate the fate of others. It brings folks together, with similar situations, or at least with those who are in the good business of caring. I hope you are right. We are all working with limited info. Sometimes we do our best to put together the puzzles, with few, sometimes many pieces missing. Some of us, through intellect, common sense, experiences and other means, can see the bigger picture better than others most of the time. In VJ's case, I have to be careful like others in evaluating without enough of the pieces. But a general perspective....he is innocent by law, he has life experiences that he should learn from, and he might be a better mentor as a result, and yes, I have to believe our leaders did an exhaustive vetting before signing him up.
    I completely agree, bud…without all available information, it’s impossible to formulate what actually happened. I don’t mean to presuppose guilt, sans conviction…just trying to find a silver lining in the event “bad circumstances” occurred. I want to give Vance every opportunity to prove himself and lead this team…my hope is that Elway chose wisely.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by broncoslover115 View Post
    This is a great post and I appreciate these points, especially the part I underlined. I hadn't heard him say anything about being irresponsible or immature and learning from it, so perhaps this is what he was referring to. But I think you may be right about being able to use those things from the past to share so others don't make the same mistakes.

    I think we all do that. Our strength usually comes from our deepest failings. Thanks for bringing up that point. I think it's really valuable.
    Thank you - I know mine does.

  8. #38
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    I like many women have been the victim of a sexual assault.
    Mine was brutal, violent and horrifying. I could have been murdered. I was stabbed and beaten.

    Anyway.. I have very mixed feelings about this. I sort of think predatory behavior doesn't just go away or get better. I am sure there are professionals who would tell me how wrong I am about that.

    I also understand what I went through is not anything like what Joseph is accused of although all sexual assault is somewhat violent in my opinion.

    I also recognize that many men get accused of this, and some of them are actually innocent.

    I just wonder why Elway hired him knowing his history. I'm not sure it's worth it to be quite honest. It brings a lot of controversy and drama.
    Last edited by KansasKrista; 01-19-2017 at 10:34 PM.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by KansasKrista View Post
    I like many women have been the victim of a sexual assault.
    Mine was brutal, violent and horrifying. I could have been murdered. I was stabbed and beaten.

    Anyway.. I have very mixed feelings about this. I sort of think predatory behavior doesn't just go away or get better. I am sure there are professionals who would tell me how wrong I am about that.

    I also understand what I went through is not anything like what Joseph is accused of although all sexual assault is somewhat violent in my opinion.

    I also recognize that many men get accused of this, and some of them are actually innocent.

    I just wonder why Elway hired him knowing his history. I'm not sure it's worth it to be quite honest. It brings a lot of controversy and drama.
    I'm sorry, KansasKrista . Thank you for sharing.

    This is why I appreciate the mature and sensitive way you all have been discussing this situation.
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  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by KansasKrista View Post
    I like many women have been the victim of a sexual assault.
    Mine was brutal, violent and horrifying. I could have been murdered. I was stabbed and beaten.

    Anyway.. I have very mixed feelings about this. I sort of think predatory behavior doesn't just go away or get better. I am sure there are professionals who would tell me how wrong I am about that.

    I also understand what I went through is not anything like what Joseph is accused of although all sexual assault is somewhat violent in my opinion.

    I also recognize that many men get accused of this, and some of them are actually innocent.

    I just wonder why Elway hired him knowing his history. I'm not sure it's worth it to be quite honest. It brings a lot of controversy and drama.
    I'm sorry KansasKrista, and thank you for sharing. Your perspective and voice are greatly valued, and I think should be shared with Broncos PR. I hope they are reading this and understand the concerns felt by so many.

  11. #41
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    What difference does it matter what he did or did not do all those years ago? Everyone deserves a 2nd chance. What matters is what he can do for the Broncos now and going forward. That will be the only thing I judge him on!

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by KansasKrista View Post
    I like many women have been the victim of a sexual assault.
    Mine was brutal, violent and horrifying. I could have been murdered. I was stabbed and beaten.

    Anyway.. I have very mixed feelings about this. I sort of think predatory behavior doesn't just go away or get better. I am sure there are professionals who would tell me how wrong I am about that.

    I also understand what I went through is not anything like what Joseph is accused of although all sexual assault is somewhat violent in my opinion.

    I also recognize that many men get accused of this, and some of them are actually innocent.

    I just wonder why Elway hired him knowing his history. I'm not sure it's worth it to be quite honest. It brings a lot of controversy and drama.
    I'm so sorry to hear this Krista. That must have been hard and I can totally understand your feelings. I share your history (though nowhere near as brutal) and had many of your feelings all week.

    As both a survivor and working in the field of sexual assault for over 35 years, this hiring pushed every one of my buttons. And it took a lot of processing for me to deal with.

    I've decided to give him a chance and see how he proceeds going forward. Hopefully he will be everything that he's been touted to be. We'll see. I'm willing to give him that chance. The alternative, not being a Bronco fan, was too painful. Because that's where I was on Monday.
    Last edited by broncoslover115; 01-20-2017 at 10:52 AM.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by KansasKrista View Post
    I like many women have been the victim of a sexual assault.
    Mine was brutal, violent and horrifying. I could have been murdered. I was stabbed and beaten.

    Anyway.. I have very mixed feelings about this. I sort of think predatory behavior doesn't just go away or get better. I am sure there are professionals who would tell me how wrong I am about that.

    I also understand what I went through is not anything like what Joseph is accused of although all sexual assault is somewhat violent in my opinion.

    I also recognize that many men get accused of this, and some of them are actually innocent.

    I just wonder why Elway hired him knowing his history. I'm not sure it's worth it to be quite honest. It brings a lot of controversy and drama.
    Very sorry KK. Your perspective is very important to hear. As for the bolded point, as I have mentioned previously, my gut tells me that Elway and his selection team did extensive due diligence, given everything we have read/heard. Short of that, I would be very disappointed. So, given I have a lot of faith in Elway, my hope is that he vetted this candidate to the nth degree, and therefore it makes me feel like the hiring might be ok. I have nothing else to go on, and as you say, sometimes folks are innocent, and that is something we all need to be aware of, especially when some like to judge just based on bits and pieces of information.

    I sure hope we got this one right.

  14. #44
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    My attack happened back in 1988. I was just a teenager.
    I've had a long time to work through it and heal.
    Naturally though I lost my sense of feeling like the world is a safe place. And I keep a gun in the house and I know how to use it.

    Edit.. I wrote out what happened to me but decided to delete it. It's not the place for that. Mine was a home invasion attack .. that's detail enough.

    Anyway.. I will give Joseph a chance.
    I would certainly understand if some don't want to.. I think that's something we all need to decide for ourselves.
    Last edited by KansasKrista; 01-20-2017 at 03:14 PM.

  15. #45
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    I read somewhere. Denver Post I think ..... that Joseph claims the reports were false...... but at the same time claiming how disappointed and embarrassed he is and how much he's matured since then. Contradictory if you ask me. On one hand he says it didn't happen... on the other he says in so many words he's older now and that wont happen again

    It's troubling. It's somewhat minor in the grand scheme of the offense 'Sexual Harassment' but still ...

    I highly doubt this type of behavior would ever happen again by him, but the distraction of it ........ sucks. And what if players have trouble respecting him over something like this... Lets hope it doesn't effect the team and his ability to do his job
    Red 98

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