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  1. #2356
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murph2432 View Post
    What quality left tackle in FA are you talking about?
    See your point as of today.

    The issue lies more in all the potential quality signings at a variety of positions that are now signed elsewhere as Elway patiently waits at the whims of Jones to release Romo for a chance to talk to him. If he ever does.

    Keeping that $12-14M in reserve for Romo could have been wisely distributed for overall upgrades to the entire team. Every time I see a complaint about signing Watson or Stephenson I laugh. Direct result of Elway budgeting for Romo instead of the team.

    Now the Broncos have to go with what they have or can find in the bargain bins. Hope Romo proves to be worth it. If he even makes it to a Bronco roster.

  2. #2357
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    Or just maybe they are waiting for more cuts to happen on other teams. Draft will have an impact on that. Just a thought
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  3. #2358
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    Quote Originally Posted by armedequation View Post
    Or just maybe they are waiting for more cuts to happen on other teams. Draft will have an impact on that. Just a thought
    The majority of cuts based on contract value for quality players have already been made.

    The next round of cuts you are describing are those based on declining performance or injury concerns. The vets that are getting replaced by younger players for a reason.

    Maybe Elway can find some reclamation projects that can help the team.

  4. #2359
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    Good article from Mike Klis -


    KUSA—As an offensive guard, Ron Leary didn’t generate much excitement during the local offseason news cycle.

    If he can move defensive linemen during the fall, though, the Denver Broncos will have chosen wisely for their No. 1 get of the free-agent period.

    In truth, Leary wasn’t the Broncos’ top choice in free agency. He was tied for first with 3-4 defensive end Calais Campbell.

    The Broncos had Leary, a left guard from the vaunted offensive line of the Dallas Cowboys, locked up early Wednesday, March 8, the day before the official opening of free agency. The Broncos waited until later Wednesday, March 8, to make their first move on Campbell, the former Denver South High School and Arizona Cardinal star.

    The Broncos’ bid of $13 million per year was apparently too much of a hometown discount compared to the $15 million per year the Jacksonville Jaguars offered Campbell.

    The acquisition of Leary, and failure to beat out the cap-rich Jaguars for Campbell, made this a mixed free agent period for the Broncos, who ranked 16th in the 32-team NFL with $66.7 million in free-agent spending. The Jaguars were first with $167.97 million.

    The five Bronco free-agent acquisitions: Leary (four years, $36 million), right tackle Menelik Watson (three years, $18.75 million), nose tackle Domata Peko (two years, $7.5 million), defensive end Zach Kerr (two years, $3.25 million) and outside linebacker Kasim Edebali (one year, $1.2 million).

    On the flip side, the Broncos lost five free-agent players who received a combined $83.5 million worth of contracts: Left tackle Russell Okung (four years, $53 million); defensive tackle Sylvester Williams (three years, $16.5 million); cornerback Kayvon Webster (two years, $8 million); outside linebacker Dekoda Watson (three years, $6 million) and outside linebacker DeMarcus Ware (retired).

    Until Tony Romo is released by the Cowboys, though, the Broncos’ free-agent work is incomplete. Romo, a four-time Pro Bowl quarterback, would move the needle like no other free-agent player since Peyton Manning in 2012.

    Romo remains property of Cowboys’ owner Jerry Jones, though, and until the quarterback is set free, the Broncos are through with their free-agent spending, with the exception of a minimum-type deal to fill needs as they arise.

    Even if Romo does become a free agent, the Broncos may still be essentially finished with their free-agent spending and stick with their two young quarterbacks in Trevor Siemian and Paxton Lynch.

    Here’s the good, bad and too-early-to-tell aspects of the Broncos’ free-agent period:

    The Good

    Throughout the 2016 regular season and into the offseason, Bronco followers repeatedly stated the team’s priority had to be upgrading its offensive line.

    The Broncos then added two starting offensive linemen in Leary and Menelik Watson and the prevailing feeling is Broncos’ free agency was a dud.

    The men up front may not sell tickets. But they can complete a championship team.

    Dollar for dollar, the Broncos believe Leary was the best value in the guard market. Kevin Zeitler was considered the top guard but it took $12 million a year for Cleveland to sign him. Detroit got T.J. Lang who is older and with some health concerns, for $9.5 million per.

    The Broncos picked up Leary for a $9 million average.

    He will help the Broncos transition from the zone, finesse-type running scheme to more of a one-on-one, power system.

    On the other side of the ball, the Broncos also believe Peko, the former longtime Cincinnati Bengal, is a better nose tackle than Williams. In fairness, Williams is best suited for defensive tackle in a 4-3 front. That’s what he was drafted for.

    Peko is a nose tackle through and through. Williams got a three-year, $16.5 million deal with Tennessee. The Broncos got Peko for two years and $7.5 million. Denver general manager John Elway no doubt feels he got more his money with Peko.

    The concern is Peko is about to play his 12th NFL season at 32 years old. The Broncos believe he has two more good years left him in.

    The bad

    Instead of Campbell -- who was not only the best defensive end available, but the highest-paid, non-quarterback free agent in this class with his $15 million average salary – the Broncos got Kerr, who was not tendered as a restricted free agent by the Indianapolis Colts.

    And while Okung is a strong contender for this offseason’s Most Overpaid Player distinction after he got $13.25 million per year from the rival Los Angeles Chargers, he did leave a monstrous void at left tackle for the Broncos.

    Too Early To Tell

    In four seasons, Menelik Watson has played in 27 games and made 17 starts. That’s less than 8 games and just more than 4 starts a year.

    The Oakland Raiders’ second-round draft pick out of Florida State, Watson’s most serious injury was a season-ending torn Achilles suffered in the preseason of 2015. He missed six games last season with groin and calf strains.

    Still, the Broncos love his talent and size (6-foot-5, 315 pounds) as they transition to the power-blocking scheme.

    Kerr is another player with potential who hasn’t quite done it yet.

    Edebali is a better pass rusher than Dekoda Watson but it will be difficult to match Watson’s play as a special teamer.

    The ultimate uncertainty, though, is Romo. It’s uncertain whether the Broncos will pursue the quarterback. If do go after him and sign him, it’s questionable whether the move would be considered good or bad.

    The opinions of quarterbacks are stronger than they are of guards

  5. #2360
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bterres105 View Post
    Reps are more for timing and cohesion with the receivers and every inch matters on a route. Why do you think Manning was so selfish with the reps? Gotta strengthen those synapses. Further, reps aren't just for rhe qb- receiver development, it applies to the rb-qb dynamic. Qb has to know how deep he has to go on a hand off, has to time a pitch perfectly, and all that good stuff. I don't think you can ever have too many reps. So many possible things need to be down pat.
    Manning was a perfectionist. Hard to compare Manning's work ethic to TS or even anyone else's. Manning was known for this. I just don't think it's as big of a deal you people make it out to be. Is it good to have reps , yes. Will not having as many reps this offseason ruin your career, no. Most people make it seem like if he doesn't get this reps this offseason he will never be a good QB in the NFL or you'll ruin his development for the rest of his career.

  6. #2361
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murph2432 View Post
    Manning was a perfectionist. Hard to compare Manning's work ethic to TS or even anyone else's. Manning was known for this. I just don't think it's as big of a deal you people make it out to be. Is it good to have reps , yes. Will not having as many reps this offseason ruin your career, no. Most people make it seem like if he doesn't get this reps this offseason he will never be a good QB in the NFL or you'll ruin his development for the rest of his career.
    I didn't mean to directly compare Siemian to Manning, just used him as an example. Manning's play was abysmal his rookie year, how do you think he perfected his craft? A whole crap ton of repetition. I think that's what Siemian and Lynch need to improve and possibly take the next step. You know as they say, "use it or lose it."
    Last edited by Bterres105; 03-19-2017 at 09:34 AM.

  7. #2362
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    Quote Originally Posted by Broncos-R-Great View Post
    Lets not mention that the Broncos rushed for a dismal 46 yards average in those 3 games, while giving up 185 yards. Or that they turned the ball over 8 times in those 3 games (2 were Siemian INTs), while defense forced just 1 turnover. Or that Siemian was sacked 7 times in those 3 games (he was sacked just 24 times in all other games he started). Then factor in the drops, Bennie Fowler for example dropped what would've been the game winning TD in the Titans games.

    So, the Broncos were outgained by over 140 yards on the ground in each game, they were a -7 turnover differential, and Siemian was sacked at a higher rate than the rest of the season. Yet, Siemian gets all the blame for those games. And... to answer all those problems we want an aging 37 year old QB that we don't even know if he can take a hit.....
    I whole heartedly agree. "Correlation does not imply causation." We can correlate Siemian's worst games with the lost games, but to say he was the cause of those lost games is so biased and incorrect. There were so many other factors to consider and Broncos-R-Great did an awesome job illustrating so many of the things that went wrong in those losses.
    Last edited by Bterres105; 03-19-2017 at 09:33 AM.

  8. #2363
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murph2432 View Post
    What quality left tackle in FA are you talking about?
    Doesn't trading for a player force you to take their salary as a cap hit as well? We could go for Peters, Veldheer, Staley, or even Joe Thomas, but if I'm not mistaken if you trade for them their salary acts as a cap hit no?
    Superbowl 50 Champions!

  9. #2364
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheAsianPA View Post
    Doesn't trading for a player force you to take their salary as a cap hit as well? We could go for Peters, Veldheer, Staley, or even Joe Thomas, but if I'm not mistaken if you trade for them their salary acts as a cap hit no?
    Maybe that's what we are doing? I would not want Peters at all even with our current LT position. 11 million for a 35 year LT that constantly gets hurt during games, comes back in the game, then leaves again for another injury. Eagles are on TV every week where I live and I feel like I was constantly hearing Peters name for some injury that took him out for a series.

    Chances of us trading for any of these other LT are very slim. Not saying it can't happen but most likely won't.

  10. #2365
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    Quote Originally Posted by Broncos-R-Great View Post
    Lets not mention that the Broncos rushed for a dismal 46 yards average in those 3 games, while giving up 185 yards. Or that they turned the ball over 8 times in those 3 games (2 were Siemian INTs), while defense forced just 1 turnover. Or that Siemian was sacked 7 times in those 3 games (he was sacked just 24 times in all other games he started). Then factor in the drops, Bennie Fowler for example dropped what would've been the game winning TD in the Titans games.

    So, the Broncos were outgained by over 140 yards on the ground in each game, they were a -7 turnover differential, and Siemian was sacked at a higher rate than the rest of the season. Yet, Siemian gets all the blame for those games. And... to answer all those problems we want an aging 37 year old QB that we don't even know if he can take a hit.....
    Yes, lets fail to point out that I specifically stated that the whole team played like crap. However, he didn't play well in those games. I never once said it was completely his fault. But he did not have good games in those specific ones. Not that hard to see for people that arent trying way too hard to defend Trevor.

    Just because I'm not blindly calling Trevor's last five games "good games", doesn't mean I'm "crapping on Bronco quarterbacks".

    Yes, the broncos as an offense did not play well in those games. Doesn't change the fact that neither did Trevor.

  11. #2366
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murph2432 View Post
    Maybe that's what we are doing? I would not want Peters at all even with our current LT position. 11 million for a 35 year LT that constantly gets hurt during games, comes back in the game, then leaves again for another injury. Eagles are on TV every week where I live and I feel like I was constantly hearing Peters name for some injury that took him out for a series.

    Chances of us trading for any of these other LT are very slim. Not saying it can't happen but most likely won't.
    Right. But if we trade for a LT then that essentially means we have given up on Romo as we'll need the rest of the cap to sign for the rookies. For whatever reason Elway does not seem to have moved on from Romo.

    I don't mind getting Peters though because he is a better option than what we have now - a bunch of bad RT or RTs that have never played much at LT, or a drafted rookie tackle that has zero NFL experience.

  12. #2367
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    Quote Originally Posted by ksubroncosfan View Post
    Yes, lets fail to point out that I specifically stated that the whole team played like crap. However, he didn't play well in those games. I never once said it was completely his fault. But he did not have good games in those specific ones. Not that hard to see for people that arent trying way too hard to defend Trevor.

    Just because I'm not blindly calling Trevor's last five games "good games", doesn't mean I'm "crapping on Bronco quarterbacks".

    Yes, the broncos as an offense did not play well in those games. Doesn't change the fact that neither did Trevor.
    To what extent can we attribute Trevor's underwhelming play to his shoulder separation?
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  13. #2368
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bterres105 View Post
    I didn't mean to directly compare Siemian to Manning, just used him as an example. Manning's play was abysmal his rookie year, how do you think he perfected his craft? A whole crap ton of repetition. I think that's what Siemian and Lynch need to improve and possibly take the next step. You know as they say, "use it or lose it."
    You can make a comparison to Manning. I'll make a comparison to Aaron Rodgers. It wasn't until Rodgers 4th year before he started getting 1st team reps. His "rookie" year wasn't abysmal. Im not trying to say Reps aren't important but they are not going to end someone career if they have to learn another year or two. Both our QBs are still young (23,25) and in 1-2 years they will still be considered young QBs.
    Last edited by Murph2432; 03-19-2017 at 09:58 AM.

  14. #2369
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bterres105 View Post
    I whole heartedly agree. "Correlation does not imply causation." We can correlate Siemian's worst games with the lost games, but to say he was the cause of those lost games is so biased and incorrect. There were so many other factors to consider and Broncos-R-Great did an awesome job illustrating so many of the things that went wrong in those losses.
    But, you two are completely and incorrectly putting implication into what my point is. I did not blame Trevor for those losses. But you two can't seem to see what I'm actually talking about. Just because those losses and our inability to put up more than 10 points in three games in a row isn't completely Trevor's fault, doesn't mean he played well in those games.

    Why is that hard to understand? So let me hit the main points here again.

    1. Whole offense did not play well.
    2. This includes Trevor.
    3. Entire point was that Trevor did not have "5 good games" in his final 5.

    Here in the last line, I'll state my argument in case you guys still want to keep arguing to wrong things to me.

    Argument: I want to point out, not that Trevor played bad in all five final games and is some awful qb, because he didn't and he isn't. But, rather, point out that he did not have "5 good games in his final 5 games".

    Since your guys' argument to me doesn't actually rebut the actual argument I'm making, I can understand why you're saying what you're saying.
    Last edited by ksubroncosfan; 03-19-2017 at 09:59 AM.

  15. #2370
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bterres105 View Post
    To what extent can we attribute Trevor's underwhelming play to his shoulder separation?
    See my post above. I'm not saying Trevor is a bad qb. I've never once said that. I don't pretend to know how players will turn out either. But like I said in my last post, you guys are arguing the wrong thing to me. I only ever argued that Trevor did not, in fact have five good games to finish the season.

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