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  1. #31
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    It is getting to close to the draft to go after Romo now. Chances are Houston feels the same way.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by chad72 View Post
    Well, he ain't no Peyton and Kubiak knew that a hobbling Peyton could squeeze every ounce of what he could to provide some respect for the Broncos offense, come playoff time and Kubiak put the Broncos first, rightly so. Not sure why it was such an affront to Brock. Just see Romo and how well he handled it.

    Actually Broncos' fans should be thankful that he felt that way and took the Texans' money, otherwise folks may be laughing at the Broncos now.
    Or the Broncos may not be in the midst of this QB fiasco. All depends on the point of view. One decisions dominos into another and a different outcome could have occurred.

    It is just as easy to speculate that Osweiler may have been successful in his first season as the Broncos starting QB instead of entering the dysfunctional O'Brian world in Houston. . If Elway initially offers Osweiler a fair contract there is no bidding war. Osweiler signs on and is the presumed starter all through OTAs and camp. First round pick is not a QB. The Sanchez experiment never happens. QB is a consistent stable position instead of this potential Romo fiasco now.

    Look at the stats from Osweiler in the offense in Denver and Simian last year. Almost identical results (Osweiler actually marginally better across the board) only one is considered a joke and the other the "future of the franchise " by many. Go figure.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by FR Tim View Post
    Or the Broncos may not be in the midst of this QB fiasco. All depends on the point of view. One decisions dominos into another and a different outcome could have occurred.

    It is just as easy to speculate that Osweiler may have been successful in his first season as the Broncos starting QB instead of entering the dysfunctional O'Brian world in Houston. . If Elway initially offers Osweiler a fair contract there is no bidding war. Osweiler signs on and is the presumed starter all through OTAs and camp. First round pick is not a QB. The Sanchez experiment never happens. QB is a consistent stable position instead of this potential Romo fiasco now.

    Look at the stats from Osweiler in the offense in Denver and Simian last year. Almost identical results (Osweiler actually marginally better across the board) only one is considered a joke and the other the "future of the franchise " by many. Go figure.
    Jim and Pat of SiriusXM NFL radio were briefly talking about this and all the dominos that fell surrounding Brock's choice to go to Houston. And how several teams drafts changed dramatically as a result. It's quite interesting to picture how many changes it caused.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by FR Tim View Post
    Or the Broncos may not be in the midst of this QB fiasco. All depends on the point of view. One decisions dominos into another and a different outcome could have occurred.

    It is just as easy to speculate that Osweiler may have been successful in his first season as the Broncos starting QB instead of entering the dysfunctional O'Brian world in Houston. . If Elway initially offers Osweiler a fair contract there is no bidding war. Osweiler signs on and is the presumed starter all through OTAs and camp. First round pick is not a QB. The Sanchez experiment never happens. QB is a consistent stable position instead of this potential Romo fiasco now.

    Look at the stats from Osweiler in the offense in Denver and Simian last year. Almost identical results (Osweiler actually marginally better across the board) only one is considered a joke and the other the "future of the franchise " by many. Go figure.
    You don't think Elway offered Osweiler a fair contract?

    You think if Osweiler had stayed, QB would be "a consistent stable position"?

    Go figure is right.
    "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by samparnell View Post
    You don't think Elway offered Osweiler a fair contract?

    You think if Osweiler had stayed, QB would be "a consistent stable position"?

    Go figure is right.
    Well anything could have happened. But more likely than not we probably would have made the playoffs with Oz and from there on who knows what could have happened. Another year in the same system where he produced results.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by samparnell View Post
    You don't think Elway offered Osweiler a fair contract?

    You think if Osweiler had stayed, QB would be "a consistent stable position"?

    Go figure is right.
    LOL

    I wrote a much more scathing response to that Post, but decided not to Post it. I mean, if somebody actually believes that Osweiler and Sanchez were the answer, especially with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight of last season, what's the point.

    Sanchez was beat out by a 1st year QB with one "kneel down" NFL snap, and then stunk it up in his one appearance in the Dallas game against Philly with 2 more interceptions. Houston had to GIVE Cleveland a 2nd Round Draft choice, "bought" by Cleveland, to get osweiler out of their building. And if Cleveland can't find a team to take osweiler off of their hands, they take him to camp, and cut him before the season starts, then Osweiler's NFL career is likely to be over. Somehow we would have been better with those two?

    I will give you credit for having a much more measured and patient response to the total absurdity of that Post.
    Last edited by gtown53; 03-22-2017 at 01:47 PM.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by samparnell View Post
    You don't think Elway offered Osweiler a fair contract?

    You think if Osweiler had stayed, QB would be "a consistent stable position"?

    Go figure is right.
    Initially he did not. Remember he initially made public statements on how a different category of QB salary was needed between starter and backup. Only after Houston put starter money on the table did Elway respond with big contract offer of $16M.

    Elway arguably made the same mistakes with Miller and Anderson His negotiation tactic of low balling and letting the player test the market has been costly.

    The Broncos would not have been more stable at the QB position if Osweiler had been in place and working all off season?

    No Sanchez or Kapernick drama. No lost reps trying to decide if Sanchez was a starter or cut. A starter with experience, wins and system familiarity.

    Who knows what the end result would have been. Broncos are on to another path and different directions. Uncertainty at QB again is the constant though.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by FR Tim View Post
    Initially he did not. Remember he initially made public statements on how a different category of QB salary was needed between starter and backup. Only after Houston put starter money on the table did Elway respond with big contract offer of $16M.

    Elway arguably made the same mistakes with Miller and Anderson His negotiation tactic of low balling and letting the player test the market has been costly.

    The Broncos would not have been more stable at the QB position if Osweiler had been in place and working all off season?

    No Sanchez or Kapernick drama. No lost reps trying to decide if Sanchez was a starter or cut. A starter with experience, wins and system familiarity.

    Who knows what the end result would have been. Broncos are on to another path and different directions. Uncertainty at QB again is the constant though.
    Well, on this issue you and I live in two different worlds of perception concerning Brock Osweiler.

    There was no bidding war. Brock made up his mind he was leaving Denver and cut off all contact with Denver's Front Office and didn't return calls from his Bronco teammates. The only contact Elway could make was with Brock's agent. I was very disappointed when Elway offered $16 million. IMO that way too much for an unproven QB.

    I think Brock made up his mind to leave Denver at halftime of the last regular season game when he was benched. Events at the end of last season in Houston after he was benched, and was asked to finish a game when Savage was concussed tend to corroborate this. He feels entitled.

    He didn't want to play in Kubiak's contolled offense. Brock wanted to make calls at LOS a la Peyton Manning. How did that work out for him? He had less yards, ypa, TD/INT ratio and passer rating than Trevor Siemian. He didn't want to be a Bronco, so he became a Texan. Oh wait, he's a Brown ... now, ... but for how long? Whose fault is all this? Well, it isn't Elway's. If Brock wants to know, he should look in a mirror.

    So, in your world if it wasn't for Elway, Brock would have stayed in Denver and everything would "have been more stable at the QB position" and "Who knows what the end result would have been?"

    Forget about Kaepernick. That had zero effect on anything to do with the football team. Mark Sanchez was due diligence. They were right to bring him in and they were right to release him.

    The main difference between us is I try to understand what I'm seeing and you want to revise it. As far as I can tell, Brock Osweiler decided to leave Denver and when the Texans figured that out, they signed him. The Brock experiment in Houston brought to eight the number of QBs who have started games for the Texans during the past three seasons: Osweiler, Savage, Hoyer, Mallett, Yates, Weeden, Fitzpatrick and Keenum.

    And Brock isn't even a Texan anymore, he's a Brown ... for the moment. Go figure.
    "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by kapzk View Post
    Well anything could have happened. But more likely than not we probably would have made the playoffs with Oz and from there on who knows what could have happened. Another year in the same system where he produced results.
    Total speculation. We'll never know because Brock decided to leave Denver and not be a Bronco anymore.
    "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

  10. #40
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    I don't think it would have mattered much on what Elway offered or would have offered. I think Brock had made up his mind that he did not want to be in Denver any longer once he was benched in week 17. He actually believes he could have won the SB had he not been benched. In reality We probably would have never made it to the SB had Peyton not stepped in. I do believe that had he chose to stay in Denver that he would still be our starter. I'm kinda glad he was a baby about it, I think Siemian is a better leader.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by broncolassiter View Post
    I don't think it would have mattered much on what Elway offered or would have offered. I think Brock had made up his mind that he did not want to be in Denver any longer once he was benched in week 17. He actually believes he could have won the SB had he not been benched. In reality We probably would have never made it to the SB had Peyton not stepped in. I do believe that had he chose to stay in Denver that he would still be our starter. I'm kinda glad he was a baby about it, I think Siemian is a better leader.
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  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by samparnell View Post
    Well, on this issue you and I live in two different worlds of perception concerning Brock Osweiler.

    There was no bidding war. Brock made up his mind he was leaving Denver and cut off all contact with Denver's Front Office and didn't return calls from his Bronco teammates. The only contact Elway could make was with Brock's agent. I was very disappointed when Elway offered $16 million. IMO that way too much for an unproven QB.

    I think Brock made up his mind to leave Denver at halftime of the last regular season game when he was benched. Events at the end of last season in Houston after he was benched, and was asked to finish a game when Savage was concussed tend to corroborate this. He feels entitled.

    He didn't want to play in Kubiak's contolled offense. Brock wanted to make calls at LOS a la Peyton Manning. How did that work out for him? He had less yards, ypa, TD/INT ratio and passer rating than Trevor Siemian. He didn't want to be a Bronco, so he became a Texan. Oh wait, he's a Brown ... now, ... but for how long? Whose fault is all this? Well, it isn't Elway's. If Brock wants to know, he should look in a mirror.

    So, in your world if it wasn't for Elway, Brock would have stayed in Denver and everything would "have been more stable at the QB position" and "Who knows what the end result would have been?"

    Forget about Kaepernick. That had zero effect on anything to do with the football team. Mark Sanchez was due diligence. They were right to bring him in and they were right to release him.

    The main difference between us is I try to understand what I'm seeing and you want to revise it. As far as I can tell, Brock Osweiler decided to leave Denver and when the Texans figured that out, they signed him. The Brock experiment in Houston brought to eight the number of QBs who have started games for the Texans during the past three seasons: Osweiler, Savage, Hoyer, Mallett, Yates, Weeden, Fitzpatrick and Keenum.

    And Brock isn't even a Texan anymore, he's a Brown ... for the moment. Go figure.
    You are correct that perception is everything. I have heard these tales of "what Osweiler was thinking" but never any actual facts. All speculation of when or why he chose to leave up until the press conferences after the fact.

    Not exactly sure what revision of facts I am guilty of. My statements have been consistent throughout. Elway did not extend or offer a market value contract until too late. He openly bemoaned the salary and publicly discussed the need for a "middle class " of QB contracts. Elway is a tough negotiator. IMO the tactics he used drove up the price of Osweiler (and Miller and Anderson). by offering below market contracts and then having to pay more when the player gets much higher offers. I think it is fair to consider that negotiations and the final numbers of contracts "could" have been more beneficial to the Broncos if done differently. Speculation on my part, I was not privy to the negotiation details or have the ability to read minds.

    As you correctly pointed out, Osweiler chose to go to Houston. Not sure anyone realized just how bad a fit that was going to be. Especially Osweiler. But as you also pointed out O'Brian has a toxic relationship with all the QBs that have under performed in his offense. Have no clue if this embarrassment is the final straw in Osweiler's career. Or if he gets another chance in the League. Only time will tell. If his attitude is truly as bad as you suggest he may not. Actually find it interesting that the Browns are so adamant to trade or cut him. They are paying him, seriously doubt anyone is trading for his contract. Might as well trot him out to compete for the job.

    On another point you make, instead of comparing Osweiler's stats to Siemian's this past year why not to Osweiler in his year with the Broncos? Same offensive system, same oline and RB issues. Same dominating defense to carry them. when comparing apples to apples Osweiler produced similar (but slightly better) stats. Whether it was better to have a starting QB in place for is last years argument.

    Getting back to present day. Broncos QB situation appears to be unsettled at best. They have two young QBs to develop but seemingly little confidence either is capable of being the starter they are looking for. Broncos waiting around for the privilege to try to convince a 37 year old with significant back issues does not inspire confidence in stability and consistency. More of an all-in high risk quick fix. And that is if Jones ever gets around to releasing his "favorite".

    You are correct, we have different perceptions of what is happening with our Bronco team. In the end I do think we are rooting for the same thing. Wins and another run in the playoffs. We just seem to disagree on how they can do it.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by FR Tim View Post
    You are correct that perception is everything. I have heard these tales of "what Osweiler was thinking" but never any actual facts. All speculation of when or why he chose to leave up until the press conferences after the fact.

    Not exactly sure what revision of facts I am guilty of. My statements have been consistent throughout. Elway did not extend or offer a market value contract until too late. He openly bemoaned the salary and publicly discussed the need for a "middle class " of QB contracts. Elway is a tough negotiator. IMO the tactics he used drove up the price of Osweiler (and Miller and Anderson). by offering below market contracts and then having to pay more when the player gets much higher offers. I think it is fair to consider that negotiations and the final numbers of contracts "could" have been more beneficial to the Broncos if done differently. Speculation on my part, I was not privy to the negotiation details or have the ability to read minds.

    As you correctly pointed out, Osweiler chose to go to Houston. Not sure anyone realized just how bad a fit that was going to be. Especially Osweiler. But as you also pointed out O'Brian has a toxic relationship with all the QBs that have under performed in his offense. Have no clue if this embarrassment is the final straw in Osweiler's career. Or if he gets another chance in the League. Only time will tell. If his attitude is truly as bad as you suggest he may not. Actually find it interesting that the Browns are so adamant to trade or cut him. They are paying him, seriously doubt anyone is trading for his contract. Might as well trot him out to compete for the job.

    On another point you make, instead of comparing Osweiler's stats to Siemian's this past year why not to Osweiler in his year with the Broncos? Same offensive system, same oline and RB issues. Same dominating defense to carry them. when comparing apples to apples Osweiler produced similar (but slightly better) stats. Whether it was better to have a starting QB in place for is last years argument.

    Getting back to present day. Broncos QB situation appears to be unsettled at best. They have two young QBs to develop but seemingly little confidence either is capable of being the starter they are looking for. Broncos waiting around for the privilege to try to convince a 37 year old with significant back issues does not inspire confidence in stability and consistency. More of an all-in high risk quick fix. And that is if Jones ever gets around to releasing his "favorite".

    You are correct, we have different perceptions of what is happening with our Bronco team. In the end I do think we are rooting for the same thing. Wins and another run in the playoffs. We just seem to disagree on how they can do it.
    Brock Osweiler did not want to be in Denver - period. A guy who cuts off all contact with the coaching staff and front office and won't return the calls of his teammates is sending a message. A member of a Super Bowl team who won't join his previous teammates for a trip to the White House is sending a message.

    Brock Osweiler himself made the decision that he was no longer going to be a Denver Bronco. That was his decision. All this talk about "what if" he had stayed in Denver is total fantasy and a total waste of time. Elway ultimately offered Brock $16 million/year. Do you seriously think he's worth that? Is there anyone else reading this who thinks Brock Osweiler is worth that?

    You sound like the Tebow guys saying that Tim just wasn't given a chance. Brock did what he did and he's the guy who needs to own it. We'll see what happens with his career in the future. That giant contract he's dragging around won't be very attractive to many teams.
    "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by samparnell View Post
    Brock Osweiler did not want to be in Denver - period. A guy who cuts off all contact with the coaching staff and front office and won't return the calls of his teammates is sending a message. A member of a Super Bowl team who won't join his previous teammates for a trip to the White House is sending a message.

    Brock Osweiler himself made the decision that he was no longer going to be a Denver Bronco. That was his decision. All this talk about "what if" he had stayed in Denver is total fantasy and a total waste of time. Elway ultimately offered Brock $16 million/year. Do you seriously think he's worth that? Is there anyone else reading this who thinks Brock Osweiler is worth that?

    You sound like the Tebow guys saying that Tim just wasn't given a chance. Brock did what he did and he's the guy who needs to own it. We'll see what happens with his career in the future. That giant contract he's dragging around won't be very attractive to many teams.
    I doubt Brock's own grandmother thinks he was worth $16m....


  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by samparnell View Post
    Brock Osweiler did not want to be in Denver - period. A guy who cuts off all contact with the coaching staff and front office and won't return the calls of his teammates is sending a message. A member of a Super Bowl team who won't join his previous teammates for a trip to the White House is sending a message.

    Brock Osweiler himself made the decision that he was no longer going to be a Denver Bronco. That was his decision. All this talk about "what if" he had stayed in Denver is total fantasy and a total waste of time. Elway ultimately offered Brock $16 million/year. Do you seriously think he's worth that? Is there anyone else reading this who thinks Brock Osweiler is worth that?

    You sound like the Tebow guys saying that Tim just wasn't given a chance. Brock did what he did and he's the guy who needs to own it. We'll see what happens with his career in the future. That giant contract he's dragging around won't be very attractive to many teams.
    Bolded above describes about 90% of the threads and discussions that we continue to come here for. The vast majority of what is discussed is opinion, speculation and hypothetical biased perceptions. Why should the Osweiler situation be any different?

    I am not arguing that Osweiler wanted out of Denver. Yet all the points you make were after Elway sent his message of indifference in negotiations after the season, correct? Not the first or likely to be the last to take the payday in free agency when their previous team is not enthusiastic about re-signing them. Elway made a business decision. So did Osweiler.

    Or that Osweiler somehow "did not get his chance". He had his chance with the Broncos. For a first year starter he was capable with some good and bad moments. Similar to Siemian. Yet one is perceived as a bust and the other a "future of the franchise". I find that interesting. I wonder why other players have taken the pay raise and moved on but few, if any, receive the same vitriol that Osweiler gets. Or that Siemian continues to receive so much praise for so little production. If not for the "Rudy-like" feel good story, would he?

    Again to get back on topic, the Broncos QB situation is once again "unsettled" at the very least. I am not a fan of the Romo plan. Waiting around for Jones to make a decision just makes a questionable situation even worse. Broncos hired the offensive coaches for a reason. Let them coach. Whether it be the oline or the two young QBs, I would prefer they trust in the coaching and show some confidence in the plan they adopted when they decided not to pay for a starting QB. I would rather see the Broncos develop the young guys instead of high risk short term fixes likethe Romo, Clady or Dunlap speculation..

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