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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChampPik4Six View Post
    Does anybody else think that with a offensive line that resembles a NFL product and a average run game Siemian could actually be the guy now with a full season under his belt?
    Not sure. I don't know how anyone can say they've seen enough to say that he can or can't be at this point. In 2016 he showed some good things and some bad things, but still has a lot of work to do. I think Siemian proved that he belongs in the NFL as a QB, but right now it's still up in the air as to whether it's as a starter or as a really good backup.

    I'm honestly not sure how anyone can claim to know definitively one way or the other at this point?
    "I never lose, I either win or I learn."

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butler By'Note View Post
    You make the assumption that the franchise and new coaching staff view Siemian as you do.
    You're right, I do make that assumption, can I not? They wouldn't even put him in the meaningless game against the Raiders. This is Siemian's job to win (again) and runaway with unless he gets traded before the season starts.
    If we could trade Lynch for a LT or offensive weapon then it only helps him and the team.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChampPik4Six View Post
    Does anybody else think that with a offensive line that resembles a NFL product and a average run game Siemian could actually be the guy now with a full season under his belt?
    I think he showed he could be "the guy" last season. He had some really good games in his first season as a starter and didn't even have a camp focused on him as the starter. Horrible line, depleted RB depth with 1 and 2 starters out, injured TE's, important parts of a run first offense or playing. He also played with a grade 5 shoulder separation, can't wait to see him healthy in a quality offense with different play calling.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMR81 View Post
    I think he showed he could be "the guy" last season. He had some really good games in his first season as a starter and didn't even have a camp focused on him as the starter. Horrible line, depleted RB depth with 1 and 2 starters out, injured TE's, important parts of a run first offense or playing. He also played with a grade 5 shoulder separation, can't wait to see him healthy in a quality offense with different play calling.
    Siemian, a 7th round practice squad player, showed me a helluva lot TBH. He had the 2nd worst offensive line in the league, no time to throw, and no running game to be heard about. And he still played very solidly. IMO If you continue to get another piece or two on the line, and draft another pass catching weapon, I think Siemian will be just fine with this defense.

    Its hard to ask a rookie (basically) to go out and put up 28 points with no time to throw and no running game. I thought he did very well for what he had to work with. Hopefully another season under his belt and a coaching staff with McCoy/Musgrave can really make it click for one of these two guys, but it is clear to me that siemian is a full step ahead of Lynch right now.

    I only wish Elway pulled a Browns and absolutly attacked the offensive line in FA from day 1. We got Leary, great, but we lost Okung. IMO the line is only minorly better than it was coming into this. Watson is complete wildcard and cant stay healthy. If we got Leary, Lang and Watson so we can go draft Came Robinson in the 1st--I would be ecstatic--but right now, it is still very very very shaky for me to feel any sort of confidence about.
    Last edited by ChampPik4Six; 03-13-2017 at 09:27 PM.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMR81 View Post
    You're right, I do make that assumption, can I not? They wouldn't even put him in the meaningless game against the Raiders. This is Siemian's job to win (again) and runaway with unless he gets traded before the season starts.
    If we could trade Lynch for a LT or offensive weapon then it only helps him and the team.
    That coaching staff is gone, a new one is in place. If Siemian performs better than Lynch he deserves the job, but there is something to be said for the fact that he has to win the job again. I just hope it's a good competition and they make it hard on the coaches because both are playing at such a high level that it's hard to pick on over the other.

    Lynch isn't being traded. The Broncos don't seem inclined to trade him and teams would probably try to not give up much, because of the fact they're trading a QB the year after drafting him.
    "I never lose, I either win or I learn."

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMR81 View Post
    I think he showed he could be "the guy" last season. He had some really good games in his first season as a starter and didn't even have a camp focused on him as the starter. Horrible line, depleted RB depth with 1 and 2 starters out, injured TE's, important parts of a run first offense or playing. He also played with a grade 5 shoulder separation, can't wait to see him healthy in a quality offense with different play calling.

    There's a lot of qualifiers in there for a guy showing that he can be the guy. I agree he did show some good things and had some good performances in his first year as a starter. But there were also some bad things and overall his play was spotty. He'll need to improve on those things to be a long time starter in the NFL, hopefully he does.

    I'm still not sure how anyone has seen enough either way, I think we're still a season away from knowing if he's a full time NFL starter, or a really good backup. It would be nice to see him show the former.
    "I never lose, I either win or I learn."

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChampPik4Six View Post
    Siemian, a 7th round practice squad player, showed me a helluva lot TBH. He had the 2nd worst offensive line in the league, no time to throw, and no running game to be heard about. And he still played very solidly. IMO If you continue to get another piece or two on the line, and draft another pass catching weapon, I think Siemian will be just fine with this defense.

    Its hard to ask a rookie (basically) to go out and put up 28 points with no time to throw and no running game. I thought he did very well for what he had to work with. Hopefully another season under his belt and a coaching staff with McCoy/Musgrave can really make it click for one of these two guys, but it is clear to me that siemian is a full step ahead of Lynch right now.

    I only wish Elway pulled a Browns and absolutly attacked the offensive line in FA from day 1. We got Leary, great, but we lost Okung. IMO the line is only minorly better than it was coming into this. Watson is complete wildcard and cant stay healthy. If we got Leary, Lang and Watson so we can go draft Came Robinson in the 1st--I would be ecstatic--but right now, it is still very very very shaky for me to feel any sort of confidence about.
    Siemian was 35th in the league in average time to throw a pass at 2.72 seconds from the time the ball was snapped until it was off. That's a long time for a QB who had no time to throw.

    Looking at the players and where they rank there's no real correlation between time to throw and how good a QB is (Brees was 4th fastest, Rodgers 5th longest) but it does show that the narrative that the o-line gave him no time might not be entirely accurate.

    http://www.nfl.com/stats/ngs/timetothrow
    "I never lose, I either win or I learn."

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoundsOfSuccess View Post
    Paxton kinda sucks right now but the "trade him while we can" stuff is pretty dumb IMO

    It'll look even dumber if/when he ends up being our guy

    Bottom line he's either going to succeed or fail HERE and that's that
    Absolutely right.
    Just as dumb as the trade TS garbage, TS is the only QB on the roster with any real game experience or demonstrated ability! At least for now!
    The Lynch MOB and the TS fan boyz need to back up sit down, take a deep breath and root for BOTH OF THEM. They're the QBs for my team THE BRONCOS.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by olgrouch View Post
    The Lynch MOB and the TS fan boyz need to back up sit down, take a deep breath and root for BOTH OF THEM.
    What if we'd rather root for Tony Romo...?
    Last edited by kingelway7; 03-14-2017 at 05:46 AM.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by samparnell View Post
    Oh, wonderful. Textual criticism of Coachspeak. Good luck with that.
    50+ posts later and Sam is sounding wiser and wiser...

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChampPik4Six View Post
    Does anybody else think that with a offensive line that resembles a NFL product and a average run game Siemian could actually be the guy now with a full season under his belt?
    I think if he can get healthy and stay healthy, he can be the guy he was vs the Bengals more often. If he can be that guy consistently then yes, he can be our QB for a long tim.


  12. #57
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    The jury is still out as to whether I am a Paxton Lynch fan. He did lose to the Super Bowl runner-up, who historically blew it and got good pressure on Brady just like they did Lynch. He beat Jacksonville which sounds like a given but they were the 6th best statistical defense last year. He looked good against Tampa who ended up a 9 win team. Fans that isn't a bad couple games. Did Kubiak really want to play Lynch at all? I don't know.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChampPik4Six View Post
    Siemian, a 7th round practice squad player, showed me a helluva lot TBH. He had the 2nd worst offensive line in the league, no time to throw, and no running game to be heard about. And he still played very solidly. IMO If you continue to get another piece or two on the line, and draft another pass catching weapon, I think Siemian will be just fine with this defense.

    Its hard to ask a rookie (basically) to go out and put up 28 points with no time to throw and no running game. I thought he did very well for what he had to work with. Hopefully another season under his belt and a coaching staff with McCoy/Musgrave can really make it click for one of these two guys, but it is clear to me that siemian is a full step ahead of Lynch right now.

    I only wish Elway pulled a Browns and absolutly attacked the offensive line in FA from day 1. We got Leary, great, but we lost Okung. IMO the line is only minorly better than it was coming into this. Watson is complete wildcard and cant stay healthy. If we got Leary, Lang and Watson so we can go draft Came Robinson in the 1st--I would be ecstatic--but right now, it is still very very very shaky for me to feel any sort of confidence about.
    There are a whole lot of moving parts going into the offense, but the QB is a major part of it. I agree that I was thoroughly impressed by Siemian's command, and his ability to make good decisions. Now Butler has been out with his usual Tebow hate, but the 2011 season provides several analogues. With Kyle Orton we had the 26th ranked rushing attack and one of the absolute worst ranked O-line, and at the 3/4 mark we were #1 in both categories.

    From what I have seen so far, I have a lot more confidence in Siemian than Lynch. It did seem like the running game improved with Lynch, but for as much of an arm as he has his accuracy very poor and he does not throw well on bootlegs to either side, and his ball handling skills do not fool opponents.

    Siemian put together a solid campaign, but he has to step up his ability to make players around him better, but sadly Lynch has not shown much to hang our hats on. At this point I would be ok if Elway traded Lynch to the Browns for Osweiler, but there is no denying that Lynch has upside, but at this point he has done nothing that is even remotely as impressive as what TT did in his first start.

    In the end the thing that defines succes at QB is the effect on the team, not small technical details. Every QB has things they are lousy at, but what drives success is what they are great at.
    Last edited by BroncoFanDK; 03-14-2017 at 08:22 AM.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Rod- View Post
    It looks like McCoy is willing to keep some of the verbiage to help the QBs and I don't think the verbiage is as complex as Kubiak's, but I believe McCoy's system usually puts more resposibility on the QB. It's the QB that calls protections, not the center. There are more no-huddle and uptempo drives, with more freedom for the QB to audible.

    McCoy might have been heavily influenced by the McDaniels-Patriots offense and by the Manning-Colts offense. He can make everything more simple to suit a QB like Tebow, but ideally he'd probably want a Manning-Rivers level of command from the QB at the line of scrimmage.

    From one of his latest interviews, it does not seem like he is designing a dumbed-down playbook for young QBs; I believe he said he would throw the playbook at the QBs and see which one stands out absorbing all the info.
    There is a difference between "dumbed-down" and simplified. Every coaching staff at every level reviews their playbook, terminology and playcalls every offseason to see if they can be made less complex.

    I doubt if there is a more complicated offensive system in the NFL than Kubiak's. Any WCO derived system is automatically going to have very long playcalls in order to implement the concepts of that offense.

    Kubiak's double-sided sideline playsheet is indicative of what a QB in his offense needs to know thoroughly and instantly in order to get everyone lined up properly and on the same play in time to see how the defense has lined up on the formation.

    Sideline playsheets are interesting to observe. I used to see what Mike Leach used when he ran the "Air Raid" offense at Texas Tech. It looked like a 3 x 5 card. That is probably similar to what Paxton Lynch's OC used at Memphis.

    The no-huddle Spread Option/Run-And-Shoot/Air Raid shotgun formation offenses most FBS QBs are running do not prepare them for the NFL. They must learn basic things like how to huddle, what the play is, how to call it, how to make sure everyone is lined up correctly and the steps necessary when putting the ball in play from under center.

    That last one is a big deal for shotgun QBs: how to take the snap from under the Center's butt and get to the meshpoint of handoff/PAP without putting the ball on the ground. It isn't nearly as easy as it looks and a lot of reps are required to get the steps consistently correct without stepping on someone or getting stepped on.

    If Denver uses more angle blocking in their rushing/play-action attack, there will be pullers and backs running around in the backfield with the QB on plays designed to look like runs. That's a new experience for most rookie QBs in the NFL. I'm sure Paxton had quite a shock. I hope that has worn off and that McCoy's offense will be friendly to him.
    "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

  15. #60
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    [QUOTE=kingelway7;5560122]What if we'd rather root for Tony Romo...?QUOTE]




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