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  1. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by arapaho View Post
    ima say this real slow...I know you kellyann using alternative facts here...but

    I said your PFF article proclaiming barney a top 10 pass rusher by using pressures per pass rush snap....was a fantasy football article

    I am not saying as you well know...that pressures are only a fantasy stat
    what difference does it make??

    because it was a fantasy site that makes it not credible? that's your argument? it was a stat that measures pressures on a per snap basis, instead of crying that it was a fantasy stat, why don't you explain to me how that is not a relevant stat to a pass rusher?

    it absolutely is, it tells you exactly how disruptive he was on every snap. this is literally the only thing you can say because at this point it doesn't matter, i have been proven correct and you refuse to man up and eat your crow.

    I wanna talk about the spin....but didn't you post some BS article proving freeney was teaching the rare and vintage spin move?...that was you wasn't it
    so when I laufgh at the entire joke of it being rare and vintage...some how I'm spinning?
    lay off the weed dude
    is it not more rare than it used to be 20 or 30 years ago? yes it is. pass rushers don't utilize it like they used to because it slows down speed rushers, this is something you are incapable of understanding.

    you and beagle both tried to talk smack to me suggesting that spinning is something guys learn back in high school yet i provided proof that he not only taught ingram how to do it better but he taught von miller and vic beasley as well.

    obviously i knew what i was talking about.

    he didn't have the sack numbers...tackle for loss numbers...qb hit numbers...and sack numbers...its amazing how we keep informing you your fantasy of ..."we only use sacks" keeps getting ripped, but you still keep insisting

    and now your gonna make foolish hypotheticals to prove a holding call is better then a sack...is that what your little smoke induced brain is resorting to
    if you don't agree that a holding call can be better than a sack, there is no hope for you. you clearly believe everything is black and white, every sack is better than every single pressure or every single holding call.

    it's a 100% fact that a holding call can produce better results than a sack but it depends on a few things which i already pointed out to you but you ignored.

    again,. we don't have to rehash anything, i was proven right about ingram, he is a top 10 player at his position (now that he has been healthy) according to your absolute sack numbers as well as according to most around the league including PFF.

    you lose dude, plain and simple.


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  2. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by baphamet View Post
    what difference does it make??

    because it was a fantasy site that makes it not credible? that's your argument? it was a stat that measures pressures on a per snap basis, instead of crying that it was a fantasy stat, why don't you explain to me how that is not a relevant stat to a pass rusher?

    it absolutely is, it tells you exactly how disruptive he was on every snap. this is literally the only thing you can say because at this point it doesn't matter, i have been proven correct and you refuse to man up and eat your crow.



    is it not more rare than it used to be 20 or 30 years ago? yes it is. pass rushers don't utilize it like they used to because it slows down speed rushers, this is something you are incapable of understanding.

    you and beagle both tried to talk smack to me suggesting that spinning is something guys learn back in high school yet i provided proof that he not only taught ingram how to do it better but he taught von miller and vic beasley as well.

    obviously i knew what i was talking about.



    if you don't agree that a holding call can be better than a sack, there is no hope for you. you clearly believe everything is black and white, every sack is better than every single pressure or every single holding call.

    it's a 100% fact that a holding call can produce better results than a sack but it depends on a few things which i already pointed out to you but you ignored.

    again,. we don't have to rehash anything, i was proven right about ingram, he is a top 10 player at his position (now that he has been healthy) according to your absolute sack numbers as well as according to most around the league including PFF.

    you lose dude, plain and simple.
    dude it was a fantasy article that looked at pressures per snap...where barney only played on pass rush downs and only to rush the passer, compared to guys like von who play 3 downs including run downs, or might drop into coverage ..it stands to reason a guy who only played passing downs would have a better % of pressures per snap...you were just to stupid to grasp the facts.

    nobody ever said pressure don't matter...a pressure can at times result in a incompletion or a turnover.. but it can also simply mean the pass rusher was blocked by the qb as the qb stepped into the pocket and threw a TD...what we said was we rely on more then a fantasy pressure stat story...we look at sacks...qb hits...tackles for loss...you at the time insisted these almost sacks proved it

    and no...I don't consider a pass rusher...who has 24 sacks in 5 years of play, averages 4.5 sacks per season...a top ten pass rusher...sorry...von has a 12 sack per year average

    as for the spin move ...it is NOT RARE AND VINTAGE...GET OVER IT ...AND NOBODY CARES IF FREENEY TAUGHT IT TO ANYONE...IT IS NOT RARE AND VINTAGE


    NO ...a sack ends the play...loss of down...on third down it ends the drive...a hold adds ten yards...but a drive can still continue, still result in a offensive score...get over it
    what your moronically insisting is that a sack that is a 4 yard loss, is worse then a O holding which cost the team 10 yards...only looking at yardage...ONLY

    no ingram had one good season...nothing more

  3. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by baphamet View Post
    the broncos will be in last place in the division and have a top 10 pick in the 2018 draft.

    the broncos need a real QB, a rebuilt OL, a good RB, a good pass catching TE, your two best players on offense (sanders and Thomas) are both approaching 30 years old. there isn't a lot of bright spots offensively for the broncos.

    defensively, i'm sure they will still be pretty good. top 10 i'm sure but yet another step back and really not capable of carrying an offense anymore without their defensive mastermind and that's assuming they stay pretty dang healthy like they were last season.

    if the broncos lose some key players on defense to injury, it could get ugly for them......like top 3 pick in the 2018 draft ugly.


    this place got boring fast now that the broncos are a mediocre team, so i figure i will liven the place up a little bit.

    you can thank me later.
    Boring fast? We didn't make the playoffs, so unlike you Baphs we don't continue to talk smack when our team is out of it.
    You said the same crap last year and Denver went 9-7, that's right we started a former 3rd string second year 7th rd Qb and still won 9 games, and had the opportunity to beat Tennessee ( Fowler drops game winner), and KC (defense allowed td drive and 2 pt conversion, which would have put us at 11-5 and in the playoffs. I know I am bias and only seeing the season through orange colored lenses, but i do realize we won some games we could have easily lost as well (Carolina, and New Orleans we got lucky in both) So all and all we are a .500 team and who wins our Qb spot , and how he plays will decide if we win 8 games or 12 games that's where I see us. And we still have the rest of the draft.
    Last edited by 58Miller; 04-28-2017 at 02:29 PM.

  4. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by 58Miller View Post
    Boring fast? We didn't make the playoffs, so unlike you Baphs we don't continue to talk smack when our team is out of it.
    You said the same crap last year and Denver went 9-7, that's right we started a former 3rd string second year 7th rd Qb and still won 9 games, and had the opportunity to beat Tennessee ( Fowler drops game winner), and KC (defense allowed td drive and 2 pt conversion, which would have put us at 11-5 and in the playoffs. I know I am bias and only seeing the season through orange colored lenses, but i do realize we won some games we could have easily lost as well (Carolina, and New Orleans we got lucky in both) So all and all we are a .500 team and who wins our Qb spot , and how he plays will decide if we win 8 games or 12 games that's where I see us. And we still have the rest of the draft.
    what exactly did i say last year? the main things i said about denver was their defense would take a step back but still be really good. i said it would be elways truest test as a GM, i said the broncos would be lucky to make the playoffs.

    i was spot on about the broncos actually lol

    where i was wrong was about the chargers. i didn't foresee the chargers monumental choking early in the season, nor did i foresee them sending a key player to IR nearly every single week for the first 11 weeks and sending 23 guys total.

    i also didn't foresee the OL being that bad and they were actually healthy. why don't you go and look at the starting lineup from the last 1/4 of the season and compare it to what they have right now? not even close to the same team.

    this is why i am saying the same things as last year, because it still holds true today. unless you are banking on the chargers choking huge leads in multiple games again and being the most injured team in the NFL.

    it's cool that you are optimistic and disagree with me, it's that time of year but the chargers are going to be really really good on offense this year and defensively they should be pretty good as well.

    the chargers now have 3 new possible starting offensive lineman and a new receiver that fits exactly what rivers loves to do. remember the days of vincent jackson and malcolm floyd with the jump balls? that's mike williams' game right there.



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  5. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by arapaho View Post
    dude it was a fantasy article that looked at pressures per snap...where barney only played on pass rush downs and only to rush the passer, compared to guys like von who play 3 downs including run downs, or might drop into coverage ..it stands to reason a guy who only played passing downs would have a better % of pressures per snap...you were just to stupid to grasp the facts.
    now you are talking straight out of your ass. both ingram and miller played the same exact position in the same defensive scheme up until now.

    ingram has always been the starter unless he was injured, that stat mattered because he didn't have as many snaps due to injury, which is why i posted it.

    besides, if you can find a pass rush only stat that ignores the amount of snaps and just shows efficiency when rushing the passer, feel free to prove me wrong. you don't want to because you just want to mention how few sacks he had because he was injured so much, it's all you have to go on.

    until then quit crying.



    nobody ever said pressure don't matter...a pressure can at times result in a incompletion or a turnover.. but it can also simply mean the pass rusher was blocked by the qb as the qb stepped into the pocket and threw a TD...what we said was we rely on more then a fantasy pressure stat story...we look at sacks...qb hits...tackles for loss...you at the time insisted these almost sacks proved it
    what did i insist it proved? quote me directly instead of putting words in my mouth like you always love to do. the fact that you call them "almost sacks" just shows how ignorant you are to this subject.

    PFF has him ranked at #6 right now and that includes being #7 in sack totals the last two years combines when he's been healthy. that is the only point i need to make because this whole time my argument has been that we have seen flashes of dominance from ingram, he just needs to stay healthy.

    i was absolutely correct and you refuse to eat your crow.

    and no...I don't consider a pass rusher...who has 24 sacks in 5 years of play, averages 4.5 sacks per season...a top ten pass rusher...sorry...von has a 12 sack per year average

    as for the spin move ...it is NOT RARE AND VINTAGE...GET OVER IT ...AND NOBODY CARES IF FREENEY TAUGHT IT TO ANYONE...IT IS NOT RARE AND VINTAGE
    the dumbest argument you could have possibly made. really, it's the only thing you can say without totally admitting how wrong you were. i mean, ingram could break out with an 18 sack season and all you have to do is mention all the seasons he was injured to justify why he isn't a top player.

    it's idiotic. ingram has developed into a top 10 player, that is what he is right now, not 3 or 4 years ago but right now.

    NO ...a sack ends the play...loss of down...on third down it ends the drive...a hold adds ten yards...but a drive can still continue, still result in a offensive score...get over it
    what your moronically insisting is that a sack that is a 4 yard loss, is worse then a O holding which cost the team 10 yards...only looking at yardage...ONLY

    no ingram had one good season...nothing more
    why are you only mentioning third down? is that the only down a sack can happen on?

    because you are cherry picking. i said it depends on multiple factors, it depends on down and distance for example. if it's first and 10, would you rather be in 2nd and 13 or 1st and 20?

    you can continue with these word play games and cherry pick to pretend you were not proven wrong but it will be funny when ingram has another good season and to see you dance like you are right now


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  6. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by baphamet View Post
    now you are talking straight out of your ass. both ingram and miller played the same exact position in the same defensive scheme up until now. :

    ingram has always been the starter unless he was injured, that stat mattered because he didn't have as many snaps due to injury, which is why i posted it.

    besides, if you can find a pass rush only stat that ignores the amount of snaps and just shows efficiency when rushing the passer, feel free to prove me wrong. you don't want to because you just want to mention how few sacks he had because he was injured so much, it's all you have to go on.

    until then quit crying.





    what did i insist it proved? quote me directly instead of putting words in my mouth like you always love to do. the fact that you call them "almost sacks" just shows how ignorant you are to this subject.

    PFF has him ranked at #6 right now and that includes being #7 in sack totals the last two years combines when he's been healthy. that is the only point i need to make because this whole time my argument has been that we have seen flashes of dominance from ingram, he just needs to stay healthy.

    i was absolutely correct and you refuse to eat your crow.



    the dumbest argument you could have possibly made. really, it's the only thing you can say without totally admitting how wrong you were. i mean, ingram could break out with an 18 sack season and all you have to do is mention all the seasons he was injured to justify why he isn't a top player.

    it's idiotic. ingram has developed into a top 10 player, that is what he is right now, not 3 or 4 years ago but right now. :



    why are you only mentioning third down? is that the only down a sack can happen on? :

    because you are cherry picking. i said it depends on multiple factors, it depends on down and distance for example. if it's first and 10, would you rather be in 2nd and 13 or 1st and 20?

    you can continue with these word play games and cherry pick to pretend you were not proven wrong but it will be funny when ingram has another good season and to see you dance like you are right now :l:
    ...so now your saying you don't understand that I'm talking about your fantasy article...that came out after barneys rookie season, a season in which he predominantly played on passing downs, ...are you really that stupid or simply playing your bap smack flip flop at another level...

    ingram played in every game in his rookie season fool...
    http://www.nfl.com/player/melviningr...gs?season=2012

    and yet he only had 120 defensive snaps..wonder why...cause he mainly came in pass rush situations...HENCE, YOU FANTASY PRESSURES PER SNAP ARTICLE WAS CRAP...IF HE ONLY CAME IN FOR PASS RUSH SNAPS..IT IS ALMOST GUARANTEED HIS PRESSURESS PER SNAP PERCENTAGE WOULD BE HIGHER

    I cant believe you don't get this

    what did you say it proved...DUDE YOU SPENT AN ENTIRE YEAR SAYING THAT your FANTASY STAT ARTICLE PROVED HE WAS A TOP 10 PASS RUSHER.....WITH YOUR WORDS..." if we just look at pressures"



    why cause your stupid...again you ask any defensive coach...would they rather have a sack,,,with the loss of down...or a off holding, that still gives the offense their full three downs...ask them
    its a stupid aurgument

    and please ....ingram isn't a 2 year player...he is a 5 year vet that has averaged a measly 4.5 sacks per year as a OLB...24.5 sacks in five seasons compared to a real top ten pass rusher like miller with 60 in 5
    Last edited by arapaho; 04-29-2017 at 06:36 PM.

  7. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by arapaho View Post
    ...so now your saying you don't understand that I'm talking about your fantasy article...that came out after barneys rookie season, a season in which he predominantly played on passing downs, ...are you really that stupid or simply playing your bap smack flip flop at another level...

    ingram played in every game in his rookie season fool...
    http://www.nfl.com/player/melviningr...gs?season=2012

    and yet he only had 120 defensive snaps..wonder why...cause he mainly came in pass rush situations...HENCE, YOU FANTASY PRESSURES PER SNAP ARTICLE WAS CRAP...IF HE ONLY CAME IN FOR PASS RUSH SNAPS..IT IS ALMOST GUARANTEED HIS PRESSURESS PER SNAP PERCENTAGE WOULD BE HIGHER

    I cant believe you don't get this

    what did you say it proved...DUDE YOU SPENT AN ENTIRE YEAR SAYING THAT your FANTASY STAT ARTICLE PROVED HE WAS A TOP 10 PASS RUSHER.....WITH YOUR WORDS..." if we just look at pressures"



    why cause your stupid...again you ask any defensive coach...would they rather have a sack,,,with the loss of down...or a off holding, that still gives the offense their full three downs...ask them
    its a stupid aurgument

    and please ....ingram isn't a 2 year player...he is a 5 year vet that has averaged a measly 4.5 sacks per year as a OLB...24.5 sacks in five seasons compared to a real top ten pass rusher like miller with 60 in 5
    ive already addressed every single thing you keep rehashing here. again, ingram could break the sack record and win defensive player of the year and all you have to do is revert back to 3 years ago to argue why he isn't a top 10 player currently......

    it's arapaho spin at it's worst to try and save face for being proven dead wrong about melvin ingram after years of smack talking him.

    you just want to talk about one article from one post i made on the subject, never mind the real point i made hundreds of times about seeing "flashes" of dominance from ingram and saying he only needs to stay healthy and he would be a good player.

    this is all well documented and you know it.

    oh and see the underlined? now that is a perfect example of a direct personal attack

    i can tell your panties are getting firmly twisted, i might be stupid in your deluded mind but at least i know what the hell i'm talking about and don't talk smack about a player for years only to get proven totally wrong then try to spin it like i wasn't .

    right now and for the last two seasons.......ingram has been finally healthy and is a top 10 player at his position in the league. go back 3 or 4 years to try and say he isn't, it just shows you are too embarrassed to admit when you have been wrong.

    clearly why you never say anything in smack anymore, are you ever right arapaho? that's what i want to know.


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  8. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by baphamet View Post
    ive already addressed every single thing you keep rehashing here. again, ingram could break the sack record and win defensive player of the year and all you have to do is revert back to 3 years ago to argue why he isn't a top 10 player currently......

    it's arapaho spin at it's worst to try and save face for being proven dead wrong about melvin ingram after years of smack talking him.

    you just want to talk about one article from one post i made on the subject, never mind the real point i made hundreds of times about seeing "flashes" of dominance from ingram and saying he only needs to stay healthy and he would be a good player.

    this is all well documented and you know it.

    oh and see the underlined? now that is a perfect example of a direct personal attack

    i can tell your panties are getting firmly twisted, i might be stupid in your deluded mind but at least i know what the hell i'm talking about and don't talk smack about a player for years only to get proven totally wrong then try to spin it like i wasn't .

    right now and for the last two seasons.......ingram has been finally healthy and is a top 10 player at his position in the league. go back 3 or 4 years to try and say he isn't, it just shows you are too embarrassed to admit when you have been wrong.

    clearly why you never say anything in smack anymore, are you ever right arapaho? that's what i want to know.

    whole lotta whine in that

    no you keep addressing and insisting that my point is that pressures are a fantasy stat...which is nowhere near the point or the truth. you keep insisting that we insist the only way to judge a pass rusher is with sacks...again a lie

    the truth is barney had 2 good seasons in five years you claim he was a starter...and as a whole other than 2015 has put up average numbers for a OLB...
    heres numbers from 2012 forward

    vmiller...274 tackles...62 sacks...17 FF
    chandler jones...260 tackles...47 sacks..14 FF
    Kerrigan...243 tackles...51 sacks...15 FF

    barny...203....24,5....11

    in other words he is showing up lately, and has put up two years of decent numbers, and yes if you cherry pick the last two seasons...you can say hes top ten
    but if you look at his entire career as a starter....hes nowhere near one of the best...if he can carry it forward then we can claim that. but compare his "FLASHES" to shane ray...you cant even compare their respective 1st and second years because ray is far superior
    but in the last two seasons as a full time starter in his 4th and 5th seasons barney has played in 1919 defensive snaps, 125 tackles...18.5 sacks

    shane ray as a rookie and second yr player played, backing up a HOF Dware had 1006 def snaps 913 less defensive snaps than did barney...yet only had 57 less tackles and 6.5 less sacks

    so again barney has talent, but does one good season of 10 sacks in five years make him one of the best...not quite

  9. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by arapaho View Post
    whole lotta whine in that

    no you keep addressing and insisting that my point is that pressures are a fantasy stat...which is nowhere near the point or the truth. you keep insisting that we insist the only way to judge a pass rusher is with sacks...again a lie

    the truth is barney had 2 good seasons in five years you claim he was a starter...and as a whole other than 2015 has put up average numbers for a OLB...
    heres numbers from 2012 forward

    vmiller...274 tackles...62 sacks...17 FF
    chandler jones...260 tackles...47 sacks..14 FF
    Kerrigan...243 tackles...51 sacks...15 FF

    barny...203....24,5....11

    in other words he is showing up lately, and has put up two years of decent numbers, and yes if you cherry pick the last two seasons...you can say hes top ten
    but if you look at his entire career as a starter....hes nowhere near one of the best...if he can carry it forward then we can claim that. but compare his "FLASHES" to shane ray...you cant even compare their respective 1st and second years because ray is far superior
    but in the last two seasons as a full time starter in his 4th and 5th seasons barney has played in 1919 defensive snaps, 125 tackles...18.5 sacks

    shane ray as a rookie and second yr player played, backing up a HOF Dware had 1006 def snaps 913 less defensive snaps than did barney...yet only had 57 less tackles and 6.5 less sacks

    so again barney has talent, but does one good season of 10 sacks in five years make him one of the best...not quite
    the underlined is the only point you made that is relevant to what i have been saying this entire time, all you want to talk about is one post i made on the subject like 3 years ago

    you are pretending that i claimed he was a top 10 player at his position back then due to that post but feel free to bump it again and quote me word for word because i never once said he was a top 10 player overall at his position based on that stat.

    the only reason i posted that article was to show you how disruptive he was when healthy and based on pressures alone he was playing at a top 10 level when healthy.

    you took that and spun it into me saying pressures are more important than sacks and that he is a top 10 player in the league based on that stat alone. that's not what i was saying or implying and it's not a fantasy stat, it's very relevant to a pass rusher.

    it's not the only thing that determines if a player is a top player in the league though, like you pretended i was saying.

    what's most important to remember and the point i made countless times was when healthy we saw "flashes" of dominance from him and he just needs to stay healthy and he would be a good player.

    that is why i am talking about the last two years only, because he's finally been healthy both years, the first time in his career and he has been a top 10 player over that span.


    that has been my point this entire time and you just want to ignore that, you just want to focus on one post i made about the subject years ago and spin it in a different direction because you lose, plain and simple.
    Last edited by baphamet; 05-01-2017 at 11:52 AM.


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  10. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by baphamet View Post
    the underlined is the only point you made that is relevant to what i have been saying this entire time, all you want to talk about is one post i made on the subject like 3 years ago

    you are pretending that i claimed he was a top 10 player at his position back then due to that post but feel free to bump it again and quote me word for word because i never once said he was a top 10 player overall at his position based on that stat.

    the only reason i posted that article was to show you how disruptive he was when healthy and based on pressures alone he was playing at a top 10 level when healthy.

    you took that and spun it into me saying pressures are more important than sacks and that he is a top 10 player in the league based on that stat alone. that's not what i was saying or implying and it's not a fantasy stat, it's very relevant to a pass rusher.

    it's not the only thing that determines if a player is a top player in the league though, like you pretended i was saying.

    what's most important to remember and the point i made countless times was when healthy we saw "flashes" of dominance from him and he just needs to stay healthy and he would be a good player.

    that is why i am talking about the last two years only, because he's finally been healthy both years, the first time in his career and he has been a top 10 player over that span.


    that has been my point this entire time and you just want to ignore that, you just want to focus on one post i made about the subject years ago and spin it in a different direction because you lose, plain and simple.
    dude has had one good season, one average season...and three nothing seasons unless you count his "flashes and almost sacks"

    Shane Ray will be a much better player..

    as for your fantasy stat story...bap, I showed you your exact words telling us to look at your story saying that it proves your pointof barney being a top pass rusher IF WE IGNORE SACKS AND STUFF AND JUST LOOK AT PRESSUREs

    you know this...you ignore it...never the less it is a undeniable fact...you tried to use a fantasy stat article that based its rankings OF PASS RUSHERS ON PRESSURES PER SNAP...NOTHING MORE...THAT WAS YOUR PROOF

    barney may become a top OLB consistently...no doubt he has the ability...but IN my opinion to be one of the best there must be some consistency over the years

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