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  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by baphamet View Post
    you mean teams with 5 or 6 RB's? 7 or 8 receivers? you are right that the deeper teams can withstand injuries better, that's not what i'm talking about here. being deep doesn't apply when you are signing guys off the street because you have so many.

    i ask again, find me a team that has had more guys on IR in a 3 year span than the chargers have had, go back 20 years if you like. then realize the chargers have had a 25th or worse OL ranking the last 3 years which no other team has.

    every team has injuries yes....no team has been as injured as the chargers over the last few years, it's simply a fact. maybe the chargers continue to be that injury prone? maybe they continue to have a horrendous OL?

    sure, but that's what it will take for the chargers to be bad again, that's what all of you are banking on if you think the chargers are still that same team they were at the end of last season.
    If you face that many injuries, it's an issue of strength and conditioning...It's still a problem with your team sucking no matter how bad you want to try and spin it into a positive. You can make excuse after excuse after excuse but your team has 9 wins in 2 seasons. That's the bottom freaking line baph. Dress it up however you feel like to help you sleep at night...We had as many wins in one year last year (when our team supposedly wasn't as "well rounded" as yours) as your team had in two years. Period...


  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagle View Post
    So you assume you wont face the Broncos in the playoffs I am guessing? We all know what happens in that instance
    Doncos have to make the playoffs first before that can be discussed.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freyaka View Post
    If you face that many injuries, it's an issue of strength and conditioning...It's still a problem with your team sucking no matter how bad you want to try and spin it into a positive. You can make excuse after excuse after excuse but your team has 9 wins in 2 seasons. That's the bottom freaking line baph. Dress it up however you feel like to help you sleep at night...We had as many wins in one year last year (when our team supposedly wasn't as "well rounded" as yours) as your team had in two years. Period...
    1. they fired their strength and conditioning coach

    2. i'm not a doctor but it seems to me having 9 guys go down with knee ligament tears might just be a freak thing, i'm not sure how you strengthen a knee ligament other than stretching.

    3. yes, if the injuries continue like they have the chargers will likely miss the playoffs again but that's what you are banking on and i have to believe these injury issues will not continue to that degree.

    all you are doing is going back and looking at win loss records from last year and the year before to justify why the chargers suck and why they will continue to do so.

    on week 1 when our teams face you will not see a depleted chargers team that is missing multiple key guys on both sides of the ball, you will see for yourself what i am talking about.

    when healthy the chargers are more well rounded than the broncos, meaning they have multiple good players on offense and defense and have a QB who is the leader of that team, not just defense like the broncos.

    when i say well rounded, that's what that means. it doesn't mean how deep your team is at certain positions....it doesn't mean how many wins your team had. you seem like a smart guy frey and it's odd to me you can't figure that out.

    who the hell is arguing that the broncos are not one dimensional and only good on defense? that's what they are at this point. with wade your defensive mastermind now gone, it will be interesting to see if the defense can still be elite and carry the offense.

    even last year they couldn't do it with wade. my guess is if elway has a fantastic draft and gets a really good back (doesn't have to be mccaffrey, this draft is deep) and draft a LT in the first, they might be able to get that running game going and with your QB situation that's an absolute must if you want to compete for the playoffs IMO.
    Last edited by baphamet; 04-21-2017 at 10:08 AM.


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  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by baphamet View Post
    if i didn't just own you bad enough, here is another for good measure.

    http://www.chargers.com/video/2015/0...rams-spin-move

    "Dwight is a big reason for that spin move and a guy named chuck smith......Dwight really showed me how to do it though" -melvin ingram



    LOL@ arapaho claiming i am wrong 95% of the time, dude doesn't have the slightest clue what the hell he is talking about
    so, is that a WRAPaho?

    you must be crushed right now, literally years of the same ignorant melvin ingram smack talk slammed directly in your face.

    you too beaglederp!


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  5. #95
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    baph, as a total outsider I see your argument and I think you are wrong. Yes Denver's O outside of Thomas/Sanders is at best average, but that D will still be top10. All the Broncos need is the O to improve just a little and they will again be relevant in the West. As you say this prediction is pre-draft so an entire draft thrown at the offensive side of the ball may be all they need.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by bears6385 View Post
    baph, as a total outsider I see your argument and I think you are wrong. Yes Denver's O outside of Thomas/Sanders is at best average, but that D will still be top10. All the Broncos need is the O to improve just a little and they will again be relevant in the West. As you say this prediction is pre-draft so an entire draft thrown at the offensive side of the ball may be all they need.
    yeah, if elway has a really good draft which turns into Denver having a much more effective and consistent running game, i could see them being a contender and i have said that. but i don't agree that the offense just needs to improve a little, they need to improve a lot.

    the reason being is i just don't see that defense continuing to be an elite top 3 defense like they have been in the past. they took a step back last season and now minus wade Philips i see them taking yet another.

    don't forget, that defense was good but not great before wade got there with basically the same core of players. not to mention that Denver was one of the more healthy teams in the NFL last season, they will need to remain that healthy.

    because a couple key injuries on defense will absolutely cripple that team IMO without a vastly improved offense.


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  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by baphamet View Post
    so you deny making that hail mary reference when talking about pressures? you deny saying it has an effect 1 out of 1000 times?
    and how in the hell is a pressure per snap stat a fantasy stat? LOL



    it's a stat that shows how often a pass rusher applies pressure per snap, has nothing to do with fantasy.




    it was a fantasy website and had a great article showing you the importance of not just looking at sack numbers like you always do yet deny. i mean right there in that quote you are accusing me of saying a pressure is more important than sack, never once have i ever said that.





    [/B]so who is lying again? do you honestly think it's hilarious i proved you wrong about ingram after all those years of smacking on him? pff has him ranked 6th, hes 7th among LB'er in sacks the last two years......i said when healthy we have seen flashes of dominance and he has been really dominant.




    be a man and admit you were wrong, being in denial about it just makes it more comical lol

    as far as what i said about freeney teaching ingram how to spin, prepare to get owned......




    http://www.atlantafalcons.com/news/b...5-3bd4daee203f

    that article is a pretty good read, freeney did it for von miller, melvin ingram, and now beasley. you think you know so damn much but you don't know jack except how to look up sacks numbers and win loss records, ill teach you something bout this game one day boy!

    you deny saying it has an effect 1 out of 1000 times

    another bap lie heres what I said
    I guess because that's the entire content of this thread...bap insisting ingram is one of the best pass rushers because of a fantasy metric stat that uses 'hurries"

    you seem to be defending his opinion on the value of a Hurry,that probably 90 out of a 100 times has zero impact on a play
    it's a stat that shows how often a pass rusher applies pressure per snap, has nothing to do with fantasy.
    when you use a pff fantasy metric stat to justify melvins greatness...it has everything to do with fantasy
    https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...ure-frequency/

    notice ingram is on the list of the most productive pass rushers in the league last year when you ignore the amount of snaps a player has, don't only look at sacks, and just look at the % of QB pressures per snap that he actually has

    pressure is more important than sack, never once have i ever said that.
    http://forums.denverbroncos.com/show...99#post4896599
    lol you opened your mouth and look foolish now. if you watched that game today then now you know how pressuring the QB can be better than a sack


    ......i said when healthy we have seen flashes of dominance and he has been really dominant.


    what have you proved...that he is top ten? with more seasons under his belt getting a single sack than seasons with at least 9 sacks, that his first 3 seasons netted him 6 sacks compared to shane ray doubling that in 2...he has had one good season...
    nothing more..shane ray has shown more in his first two seasons that Melvin in his first three

    as far as what i said about freeney teaching ingram how to spin, prepare to get owned

    and for the 100th time...as we have said over and over...we never contested your story that freeney taught Melvin the spin move, nobody cares if he did, we laugned at your insistence that the spin move was rare and vintage and seldom used in the league
    http://forums.denverbroncos.com/show...26#post5219126
    freeney made a career out of that move and taught it to ingram apparently

    not too many pass rushers use a spin move anymore
    http://forums.denverbroncos.com/show...76#post5219276

    not too many pass rushers use a spin move anymore."

    what part of that statement do you not understand? it's more of a vintage move that way more pass rushers back in the day used vs now


    and again...NOBODY CARES IF FREENEY TAUGHT IT TO THE MORMON TABERNACLE CHOIR... we cared about it being seldom used and vintage
    Last edited by arapaho; 04-24-2017 at 01:06 PM.

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by baphamet View Post
    so, is that a WRAPaho?

    you must be crushed right now, literally years of the same ignorant melvin ingram smack talk slammed directly in your face.

    you too beaglederp!

    really? where?

    your weak smack aint slamming anything

  9. #99
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    learn how to multi quote dude, i mean seriously.

    Quote Originally Posted by arapaho View Post
    when you use a pff fantasy metric stat to justify melvins greatness...it has everything to do with fantasy
    https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...ure-frequency/

    notice ingram is on the list of the most productive pass rushers in the league last year when you ignore the amount of snaps a player has, don't only look at sacks, and just look at the % of QB pressures per snap that he actually has.
    it's PFF, a reference you yourself have used on multiple occasions and a reference that is far more credible than you or i will ever be in terms of judging player performance.

    that said, explain to me how the % of pressures per snap is only a fantasy stat? that's a stat that shows how efficient a pass rusher is per every snap they take. now, it is just for pressures but pressures have a much bigger impact that you obviously think they do.

    https://www.profootballfocus.com/sig...nder-pressure/

    ive posted this link before and this is the same kind of information you push aside and claim is a "fantasy stat metric" as if pressures per snap % has anything to do with fantasy football.

    the fact of the matter is, pressures absolutely do have an effect on a lot of plays and you can see in that graphic in the link i posted, on average it has a huge affect.

    oh and a point i have never made before which is relevant, a holding penalty can be better than a sack as well, in fact they are better than most sacks that are not more than 10 yards loses or are strip sacks.

    pressure draws those holding penalties a lot of times of course.

    you always try to pretend i say pressures are better than sacks just because i said they can be better, just like a holding penalty can be better. but the fact remains, pressure has an effect on the outcome of plays and it doesn't always show up on the stat sheet.

    http://forums.denverbroncos.com/show...99#post4896599
    lol you opened your mouth and look foolish now. if you watched that game today then now you know how pressuring the QB can be better than a sack
    yeah, and? my response above covers any confusion you might have.

    what have you proved...that he is top ten? with more seasons under his belt getting a single sack than seasons with at least 9 sacks, that his first 3 seasons netted him 6 sacks compared to shane ray doubling that in 2...he has had one good season...nothing more
    lets see.....you talked smack to me about my "flashes of dominance" comments, when i said that ingrams main issues have always been health. you said kendall reyas was a better pick than ingram, you called it a wasted pick and a bust.

    but as i told you then, i actually watch the games. i seen "flashes" of a really dominant player but he always got hurt. well, the last two years he has been healthy and he is 7th in sacks among all LB'ers over that period and he is the ranked #6 edge rusher according to PFF last season.

    BECAUSE HE HAS BEEN HEALTHY. he was considered the #6 edge rusher last season yet only had 8 sacks, there is a lot more to ingrams game than just sacks and that was the only point i ever tried to make about that.

    oh and the point about the effectivness of pressure, i think the link i provided pretty much destroys that angle too.


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  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by arapaho View Post
    [NOBODY CARES IF FREENEY TAUGHT IT TO THE MORMON TABERNACLE CHOIR... we cared about it being seldom used and vintage
    it is more seldom used than it used to be 20 or 30 years ago which makes it somewhat vintage, that was my point. today's pass rushers are far more about speed rushing (spinning slows them down obviously ) and if it was commonly used then why would two pros von miller and melvin gordon need advice from freeney on how to do it more effectively? because freeney is one of the few that have mastered it and uses it frequently.

    the fact of the matter is, you talked smack for years about ingram and it has all been thrown back in your football ignorant face.


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  11. #101
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    of course arapaho negs me for embarrassing his sorry ass!


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  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by baphamet View Post
    learn how to multi quote dude, i mean seriously.



    it's PFF, a reference you yourself have used on multiple occasions and a reference that is far more credible than you or i will ever be in terms of judging player performance.

    that said, explain to me how the % of pressures per snap is only a fantasy stat? that's a stat that shows how efficient a pass rusher is per every snap they take. now, it is just for pressures but pressures have a much bigger impact that you obviously think they do.

    https://www.profootballfocus.com/sig...nder-pressure/

    ive posted this link before and this is the same kind of information you push aside and claim is a "fantasy stat metric" as if pressures per snap % has anything to do with fantasy football.

    the fact of the matter is, pressures absolutely do have an effect on a lot of plays and you can see in that graphic in the link i posted, on average it has a huge affect.

    oh and a point i have never made before which is relevant, a holding penalty can be better than a sack as well, in fact they are better than most sacks that are not more than 10 yards loses or are strip sacks.

    pressure draws those holding penalties a lot of times of course.

    you always try to pretend i say pressures are better than sacks just because i said they can be better, just like a holding penalty can be better. but the fact remains, pressure has an effect on the outcome of plays and it doesn't always show up on the stat sheet.



    yeah, and? my response above covers any confusion you might have.



    lets see.....you talked smack to me about my "flashes of dominance" comments, when i said that ingrams main issues have always been health. you said kendall reyas was a better pick than ingram, you called it a wasted pick and a bust.

    but as i told you then, i actually watch the games. i seen "flashes" of a really dominant player but he always got hurt. well, the last two years he has been healthy and he is 7th in sacks among all LB'ers over that period and he is the ranked #6 edge rusher according to PFF last season.

    BECAUSE HE HAS BEEN HEALTHY. he was considered the #6 edge rusher last season yet only had 8 sacks, there is a lot more to ingrams game than just sacks and that was the only point i ever tried to make about that.

    oh and the point about the effectivness of pressure, i think the link i provided pretty much destroys that angle too.

    show me one time I used a pff fantasy stat to prove anything...I use stats from various sources...I do not use FANTASY STATS

    and again in your weird kellyann way of spin...you are lying again, the part where I said your article that used only pressure to judge pass rushers...was a Pff fantasy metric story, which it was...does not mean I'm saying pressure are fantasy stats

    and as we insisted a dozens of times...a pressure can result in a bad play...but it can also result more often in a completion, a 1st down, a scramble for yardage, and many times a offensive TD, that is a fact that cannot be denied, where you tried to insist a hurry can be better than a sack because hurries is all barney had

    a pressure is recorded anytime a qb steps up, moves lateral, or scambles when a defenders rush brings him within 2 yards..

    you insisted we judge barney by pressures ...we insisted pressures are ok but to be a great pass rusher they must also COME WITH QB HITS, TACKLES FOR LOSS, PASSES DEFENDED AND SACKS...to judge a pass rusher

    not simply pressures

    as for holdings can be better...a sack comes with a loss of down...now tell me if its third and 5 and you get the offense to hold its still third an 15...if its 3rd and 5 and you get a sack....the other team punts...which is better?
    I guarantee you ask any defender, coach in the league what would you rather have on 3rd down...a offensive holding...or a defensive sack they are going to say sack

    now your being ridiculous

    when you used your fantasy stats to prop up barney..reyas was the better player...10.5 sacks 62 tackles in his first two season as a DT...compared to barneys 2 sacks and 49 tackles as a OLB...

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by arapaho View Post
    show me one time I used a pff fantasy stat to prove anything...I use stats from various sources...I do not use FANTASY STATS
    there is no fantasy stat, PFF and their stats are bought and used by multiple NFL teams lol

    the "fantasy stat" you ae referring to is 100% relevant to what we are talking about, considering pressure is a lot more important than you are pretending it is.

    and again in your weird kellyann way of spin...you are lying again, the part where I said your article that used only pressure to judge pass rushers...was a Pff fantasy metric story, which it was...does not mean I'm saying pressure are fantasy stats
    how comical, you want to talk about spin? this is exactly what you are doing right now. it's talking about the importance of pressure and the affect it has on a QB vs non pressure and you are doing everything in your power to discredit it because it annihilates your ignorant argument.

    PFF >>>>>>>> you and your cherry picked stats

    and as we insisted a dozens of times...a pressure can result in a bad play...but it can also result more often in a completion, a 1st down, a scramble for yardage, and many times a offensive TD, that is a fact that cannot be denied, where you tried to insist a hurry can be better than a sack because hurries is all barney had
    no, that was your interpitation of it. what i was saying was backed up by hard data and you are just trying to push it aside and claim it's "fantasy stats".

    its a 100% fact that on average pressure alone lowers QB efficiency by a considerable amount. i wasn't saying at all that i thought a pressure alone is better than a sack except for when it causes a turn over or a bad play.

    you discredited the amount of disruption ingram showcased because he didn't have the sack numbers, that was your smack angle and that's all you really knew. of course you never watched him play like i did, you didn't see the "flashes" that i and others that closely followed the chargers seen.

    dude just needed to get healthy and stay healthy and i knew he would be alright, he still has prove he can stay healthy.

    a pressure is recorded anytime a qb steps up, moves lateral, or scambles when a defenders rush brings him within 2 yards..

    you insisted we judge barney by pressures ...we insisted pressures are ok but to be a great pass rusher they must also COME WITH QB HITS, TACKLES FOR LOSS, PASSES DEFENDED AND SACKS...to judge a pass rusher

    not simply pressures
    show me where i said you must judge any pass rusher on pressures alone. no i didn't insist you should judge him on pressure, i was attempting to show you that just because he wasn't finishing all his sacks doesn't mean he wasn't doing his job or that he just was a bad player, like you insisted that he was.

    i was showing you he was disruptive and wreaking havoc even though it wasn't showing up on the stat sheet. either way, we now know i wasn't just blowing hot air, obviously i knew what i was talking about and you clearly do not.

    as for holdings can be better...a sack comes with a loss of down...now tell me if its third and 5 and you get the offense to hold its still third an 15...if its 3rd and 5 and you get a sack....the other team punts...which is better?
    I guarantee you ask any defender, coach in the league what would you rather have on 3rd down...a offensive holding...or a defensive sack they are going to say sack

    now your being ridiculous
    it depends what down it is. 1/10 would you rather have it be 2/13 or 1/20? same goes for second down. it also depends on field position. i'm still not wrong, it can be better than a sack but that doesn't mean i'm saying all holding penalties are generally better than a sack, that's just idiotic.

    when you used your fantasy stats to prop up barney..reyas was the better player...10.5 sacks 62 tackles in his first two season as a DT...compared to barneys 2 sacks and 49 tackles as a OLB...
    that's your problem, you look up sack totals and make sweeping conclusions based off that alone, that's why you are sitting here right now looking like a giant fool. you want to talk about fantasy stats as if they are not credible when multiple NFL teams use their data yet you simply look up sack totals and come to a conclusion based on that alone? that's the better method??

    now that is ridiculous.


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  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by baphamet View Post
    it is more seldom used than it used to be 20 or 30 years ago which makes it somewhat vintage, that was my point. today's pass rushers are far more about speed rushing (spinning slows them down obviously ) and if it was commonly used then why would two pros von miller and melvin gordon need advice from freeney on how to do it more effectively? because freeney is one of the few that have mastered it and uses it frequently.

    the fact of the matter is, you talked smack for years about ingram and it has all been thrown back in your football ignorant face.
    no that is a absolute bull crap excuse

    the spin move has always been used in fact I would bet its actually used more now than 20-30 years ago...big men are stronger, faster and more agile...and the spin move is used in every game by players from every team in every week of the season, including DTs


    again what have you throw in my face...besides your whiney most injured ever excuses
    or your worst defense ever

    or worst special teams ever
    or worst playcalling

    or worst scheme

    barney is a 5th year vet, OLB...with 24 sacks...nothing spectacular
    Beasley has two years and already 19.5 sacks
    by vons 5th year he had 60 sacks
    chandler jones same 5 years as barney...47 sacks
    r kerrigans 5th year came with 47.5 sacks

    your trying to insist barney...like Lorenzo alexander with one good year is somehow one of the top pass rushers because of one good season

  15. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by baphamet View Post
    there is no fantasy stat, PFF and their stats are bought and used by multiple NFL teams lol

    the "fantasy stat" you ae referring to is 100% relevant to what we are talking about, considering pressure is a lot more important than you are pretending it is.



    how comical, you want to talk about spin? this is exactly what you are doing right now. it's talking about the importance of pressure and the affect it has on a QB vs non pressure and you are doing everything in your power to discredit it because it annihilates your ignorant argument.

    PFF >>>>>>>> you and your cherry picked stats



    no, that was your interpitation of it. what i was saying was backed up by hard data and you are just trying to push it aside and claim it's "fantasy stats".

    its a 100% fact that on average pressure alone lowers QB efficiency by a considerable amount. i wasn't saying at all that i thought a pressure alone is better than a sack except for when it causes a turn over or a bad play.

    you discredited the amount of disruption ingram showcased because he didn't have the sack numbers, that was your smack angle and that's all you really knew. of course you never watched him play like i did, you didn't see the "flashes" that i and others that closely followed the chargers seen.

    dude just needed to get healthy and stay healthy and i knew he would be alright, he still has prove he can stay healthy.



    show me where i said you must judge any pass rusher on pressures alone. no i didn't insist you should judge him on pressure, i was attempting to show you that just because he wasn't finishing all his sacks doesn't mean he wasn't doing his job or that he just was a bad player, like you insisted that he was.

    i was showing you he was disruptive and wreaking havoc even though it wasn't showing up on the stat sheet. either way, we now know i wasn't just blowing hot air, obviously i knew what i was talking about and you clearly do not.



    it depends what down it is. 1/10 would you rather have it be 2/13 or 1/20? same goes for second down. it also depends on field position. i'm still not wrong, it can be better than a sack but that doesn't mean i'm saying all holding penalties are generally better than a sack, that's just idiotic.



    that's your problem, you look up sack totals and make sweeping conclusions based off that alone, that's why you are sitting here right now looking like a giant fool. you want to talk about fantasy stats as if they are not credible when multiple NFL teams use their data yet you simply look up sack totals and come to a conclusion based on that alone? that's the better method??

    now that is ridiculous.
    ima say this real slow...I know you kellyann using alternative facts here...but

    I said your PFF article proclaiming barney a top 10 pass rusher by using pressures per pass rush snap....was a fantasy football article

    I am not saying as you well know...that pressures are only a fantasy stat

    I wanna talk about the spin....but didn't you post some BS article proving freeney was teaching the rare and vintage spin move?...that was you wasn't it
    so when I laufgh at the entire joke of it being rare and vintage...some how I'm spinning?
    lay off the weed dude

    he didn't have the sack numbers...tackle for loss numbers...qb hit numbers...and sack numbers...its amazing how we keep informing you your fantasy of ..."we only use sacks" keeps getting ripped, but you still keep insisting

    and now your gonna make foolish hypotheticals to prove a holding call is better then a sack...is that what your little smoke induced brain is resorting to
    Last edited by arapaho; 04-24-2017 at 04:11 PM.

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