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  1. #1
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    The Jay Cutler trade revisited

    Well, it seems as if Jay Cutler, Mr. Charisma himself, has decided to hang 'em up. I couldn't help remembering his trade and what a crazy time that was in Broncos history. It got me to thinking, who actually won that trade?

    You could actually argue that both teams LOST the trade. I mean, the Broncos did little with the draft picks they got, while the Bears never amounted to much with Cutler at the helm. Looking deeper, however, I definitely think Denver came out ahead.

    Really, the Cutler fiasco was the beginning of the much larger McD fiasco, whose incompetent handling of the whole situation was a harbinger of things to come. Luckily, Pat Bowlen sent McD packing after the 2010 season. That, of course, led to the return of John Elway, who was essential in luring Peyton Manning to the Broncos. The rest is history.

    In the end, I'm glad the way things turned out. Cutler was never a franchise QB, and his trade eventually led to one of the best eras in Denver history.

  2. #2
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    Honestly who knows how it would've turned out if Shanny was able to stay on longer. QB's generally perform better if they have more familiarity and aren't switching offensive schemes and coordinators at a fast pace which Cutler did in Chicago.

    To the trade itself.


    We gave Cutler and a 5th to Chicago.

    In return we got:

    Orton.

    Pick 18 in 2009 (Robert Ayers),

    3rd rounder we ended up packaging with another 3rd to Pittsburgh to trade up and take Richard Quinn in the 2nd. I believe we got a later pick in that deal as well and picked Seth Olsen. Pittsburgh I think got Mike Wallace with one of those picks.

    Pick 11 in 2010. (Traded to SF for 13 and a 4th) 13 became 24 from Philly and we picked up 2 third rounders. One of those 3rd rounders we packaged to trade up for Tebow. The other was used on Eric Decker. 24 became 22 from New England which we gave them the 4th we had picked up from SF earlier. At 22 We picked Demaryius Thomas.


    So we picked up some good players from the picks we acquired eventually, although there were some missed chances, like picking Ayers over Clay Matthews.

  3. #3
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    I think it was about even. Nobody can draft perfectly but the fast fact we had Josh Mcdaniels means we tied even. CTM thanks for the breakdown!!!
    Last edited by $Broncos$; 05-06-2017 at 09:16 PM.

  4. #4
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    This is a really challenging thread by the way!!!

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by $Broncos$ View Post
    I think it was about even. Nobody can draft perfectly but the fast fact we had Josh Mcdaniels means we tied even. CTM thanks for the breakdown!!!
    Interesting take. McDummy, he stunk.


    2015 & 2016 Adopted Bronco: Chris Harris Jr.

  6. #6
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    If we didn't trade Cutler we likely don't get Von...

    Though I wanted to keep Cutty

    2013 Adopted Bronco - Duke Ihenacho

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by CTM View Post
    Honestly who knows how it would've turned out if Shanny was able to stay on longer. QB's generally perform better if they have more familiarity and aren't switching offensive schemes and coordinators at a fast pace which Cutler did in Chicago.

    To the trade itself.


    We gave Cutler and a 5th to Chicago.

    In return we got:

    Orton.

    Pick 18 in 2009 (Robert Ayers),

    3rd rounder we ended up packaging with another 3rd to Pittsburgh to trade up and take Richard Quinn in the 2nd. I believe we got a later pick in that deal as well and picked Seth Olsen. Pittsburgh I think got Mike Wallace with one of those picks.

    Pick 11 in 2010. (Traded to SF for 13 and a 4th) 13 became 24 from Philly and we picked up 2 third rounders. One of those 3rd rounders we packaged to trade up for Tebow. The other was used on Eric Decker. 24 became 22 from New England which we gave them the 4th we had picked up from SF earlier. At 22 We picked Demaryius Thomas.


    So we picked up some good players from the picks we acquired eventually, although there were some missed chances, like picking Ayers over Clay Matthews.
    I also wonder what Shanny might have done with Cutler. I'm sure he would have done better than he did with Chicago, which has never been the most QB friendly franchise.

  8. #8
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    Shanahan - McDaniels - Studesville - Fox - Kubiak - Joseph

    Cutler - Orton - Simms - Tebow - Manning - Osweiler - Siemian - Lynch

    Dennison - McCoy - Gase - Dennison - McCoy

    Slowik - Nolan - Martindale - Allen - Del Rio - Phillips - Woods

    All of that in about ten years; an interesting and sometimes crazy decade.
    "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

  9. #9
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    Yeah it's funny how Denver is the only team in the league that is super bowl contending good AND experiences a lot of internal turmoil... the others like pitt, ne, balt... they are stable like glaciers. Denver stable like FIRE over GASOLINE.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by JakeNbake View Post
    If we didn't trade Cutler we likely don't get Von...

    Though I wanted to keep Cutty
    That's kind of how I look at it as well. It's about so much more than Cutler, but really he's the lynchpin. If McDaniels keeps Cutler, I think he has more success. Not a great coach and QB, but I think that they're 9-7 in 2009 and then I think they'd have won 5 or 6 games in 2010, possibly more. In that case, I'm not sure the Broncos would have fired McDaniels after 2010 (and certainly not in season) so then all of a sudden you don't have Von Miller and it's possible the team never brings John Elway in as GM. No John Elway likely means no Peyton Manning, and onward it goes.

    I know a lot of people hate McDaniels and what he did in Denver, and I certainly hated watching the team and the weekly results, but he actually did a lot of positives for the team during his time in Denver, although somewhat indirectly. First he ran off Cutler, I think that saved the Broncos fans, because it would have been longer years of mediocrity ahead with Cutler. Second he was responsible for the franchise reconnecting with John Elway. I believe he was the one who asked Elway to come back to training camp and welcoming him back into the building. Thirdly, he bottomed the team out, after so many years of 7-9 to 10-6 and no real progress (save 2005) the team was stuck, not good enough to truly compete (again, save 2005) and not bad enough to bottom out. McDaniels ended up forcing the Broncos to bottom out. In comes Elway, Miller gets drafted, a year later Manning is signed. And the rest is history.

    Without McDaniels and the Cutler trade, the Broncos are in a very very different place right now.
    "I never lose, I either win or I learn."

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by samparnell View Post
    Shanahan - McDaniels - Studesville - Fox - Kubiak - Joseph

    Cutler - Orton - Simms - Tebow - Manning - Osweiler - Siemian - Lynch

    Dennison - McCoy - Gase - Dennison - McCoy

    Slowik - Nolan - Martindale - Allen - Del Rio - Phillips - Woods

    All of that in about ten years; an interesting and sometimes crazy decade.

    Did Simms ever start a game in Denver? I honestly can't remember if he did.
    "I never lose, I either win or I learn."

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butler By'Note View Post
    Did Simms ever start a game in Denver? I honestly can't remember if he did.
    I know he posted an abysmal stat line against Tennessee

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by beastlyskronk View Post
    I know he posted an abysmal stat line against Tennessee
    No! Orton got injured against redskins and Simms started against Chargers. The biggest ovation Orton ever got from Bronco fans were he hobbled in on one leg to take over after Simms in the Charger game, and could not use his legs but was still the better QB.

  14. #14
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    9news has this from yesterday that is much more accurate that the Shanny/Cutler love fest.


    KUSA - There is not one Broncos fan who is going to like reading this, but Josh McDaniels was right.

    Eight years after the infamous McJaygate saga, it can be conclusively stated McDaniels was right about Jay Cutler.

    Although Cutler finished as a champion for those afflicted with Type 1 diabetes by playing nine additional NFL seasons after his diagnoses, he announced Friday he would no longer continue as a quarterback. He leaves without ever leading his team to a Super Bowl. He will replace John Lynch as the No. 2 NFL color commentator on Fox.

    Since his departure from Denver, the Broncos have played in two Super Bowls, winning one.

    It worked out better for the Broncos after Cutler left than it did for him.

    Had Cutler stayed, Bronco fans would not have been treated to the exhilarating, “Will to Win” season of Tim Tebow in 2011. Had Cutler stayed, the Broncos never would have signed Peyton Manning. Between Tebow’s magical run of fourth quarter miracles and Manning’s precise execution that broke passing records and generated seasons of 13-3, 13-3, 12-4 and 12-4, the Broncos won the AFC West Division title five years in a row.

    Would the Broncos have enjoyed that kind of success had Cutler stayed? I talked to Brandon Marshall -- another highly talented, but sometimes emotionally disruptive player McDaniels ran off -- on the Levi’s Stadium field prior to kickoff of Super Bowl 50 on February 7, 2016.

    “I was immature then, but I have wondered if I was able to work through that, what would have happened if our young group stayed together,’’ Marshall said.

    The Broncos’ 2006 draft: Cutler in the first round; tight end Tony Scheffler in the second; the receiver Marshall, pass rusher Elvis Dumervil and returner-receiver Domenik Hixon in the fourth round; guard Chris Kuper in the fifth.

    It was the greatest draft class that never was.

    Cutler, Scheffler and Marshall all got sideways with McDaniels – himself a volatile, stubborn, nowhere-near-ready leader of men -- and were traded away while they were still young. Broncos coach Mike Shanahan quickly gave up on the oft-injured Dixon, who helped the New York Giants win two Super Bowls. Dumervil got caught up in a Fax Fiasco with John Elway’s current regime and took his sack skills to Baltimore. Kuper’s career came to a premature end because of an ankle injury.

    Cutler was never better than the first three games in his third season of 2008. With new passing game coordinator Jeremy Bates creatively designing the patterns, the Broncos opened with a 41-14 rout of the Raiders in Oakland on Monday night, rallied late to edge nemesis Philip Rivers and the San Diego Chargers, 39-38, and held on to beat the Drew Brees-led New Orleans Saints, 34-32.

    Cutler had combined for 914 passing yards and eight touchdowns against two interceptions and 114 points in those three wins.

    But he and the Broncos’ slipped from there. Cutler threw 17 touchdowns against 16 interceptions in the final 13 games and the Broncos finished 5-8. When he overthrew a wide-open Brandon Stokley in the end zone in what should have been a gimme, game 15 against Buffalo, the Broncos would choke away a three-game lead with three to play to miss the playoffs.

    Cutler still finished with what turned out to be a career-best 4,526 passing yards and he made his first and only Pro Bowl. The late-season collapse was disappointing, but Cutler was only 25. There would be better days ahead.

    Shanahan, though, would not survive. With just one playoff win in the 10 seasons since Elway retired as a player, the collapse cost Shanahan his job.

    Cutler was livid and impetuously requested to be traded. He settled down, but when the Broncos hired McDaniels, Cutler again asked to be traded because he deduced, correctly, it would be the end of Bates. Both McDaniels and Bates were 32-year-old, offensive-minded wunderkinds. There is only room for one on an NFL coaching staff.

    Knowing Cutler wanted out before he gave him a chance, McDaniels quietly got involved in trade discussions regarding his former New England quarterback Matt Cassel. When Tom Brady went down with a season-ending knee injury in the first quarter of the first game in 2008, the Patriots went 11-5, anyway, with Cassel at quarterback.

    Cassel’s success made McDaniels, the Pats’ offensive coordinator, the NFL’s hottest head coaching candidate in 2009.

    The Broncos got him but when McDaniels’ dalliance with Cassel became public, Cutler – who again had calmed and was willing to give the new coach a chance – was understandably agitated. In fairness to McDaniels, he never got deep into Cassel trade talks. He checked into it, but it never got to the point of telling owner Pat Bowlen about the potential deal.

    Still, the damage was done. A clear-the-air meeting was arranged between McDaniels and Cutler. At Cutler’s insistence, his agent Bus Cook sat in. According to multiple sources, it was going well until Cutler justifiably asked McDaniels if he could simply promise he wouldn’t trade him.

    All McDaniels had to do was assure Cutler he was a Bronco and the next step would have been a peace-offering handshake.

    But nooooooooo.

    McDaniels said he would trade anybody if he thought it helped the Broncos. He got worked up as he talked.

    When McDaniels was finished, Cutler and Cook got up, left the room, never to be seen at Broncos headquarters again. McDaniels had a choice of trading Cutler to Washington in a deal that would have made Jason Campbell the Broncos’ new quarterback, or the Bears in exchange for Kyle Orton.

    McDaniels went with Orton, who played well for a year but then was crushed beneath the onslaught that was Tebowmania. Included in the Orton trade was the Bears’ first-round draft pick in 2010. That pick was repackaged in other trades as McDaniels and general manager Brian Xanders moved up and down the first round, but it can be traced to the Broncos taking receivers Demaryius Thomas in the first round and Eric Decker in the third.

    The McDaniels-Cutler squabble – dubbed ‘McJaygate’ by former Denver Post sports writer John Henderson – turned out to be lose-lose for the parties directly involved. McDaniels was fired after the 2010 season, although he has since returned to New England where he is once again among the league's best offensive coordinators. Even Bates, the third party in the fractured relationship, went on to a rocky coaching career, although he just got back in the league as the New York Jets’ quarterback coach.

    Cutler considered reuniting with Bates before deciding instead to join his favorite fraternity, the media.

    Cutler did lead the Bears to the NFC Championship Game in 2010. But against the Packers at Soldier Field, Cutler completed 6 of 14 with an interception before leaving with a knee injury. On one of his passes, he had Devin Hester wide open in the end zone. Cutler nearly threw the ball in the stands. After leaving the game, Cutler was often caught by TV cameras appearing disinterested as he sat on the bench.

    Put all of Cutler’s quarterback characteristics in a list and arm strength would be at the top with body language at the bottom.

    The home conference championship loss to Green Bay was the last time Cutler and the Bears were in the postseason.

    The McDaniels-Cutler fallout led the Broncos to hire Elway as general manager. It led to having the No. 2 overall pick in the 2011 NFL Draft, where Elway took a pass-rusher named Von Miller. It led to Manning.

    Manning led the Broncos to the Super Bowl in the 2013 season. Miller won the Super Bowl for the Broncos in 2015.

    None of this would have happened if not for McJaygate.

    One more McDaniels' remnant -- his offensive system. It stayed with offensive coordinator Mike McCoy and quarterbacks coach Adam Gase. Gary Kubiak dismantled it with his West Coast offense, but now McCoy is back as offensive coordinator, employing many of McDaniels' offensive principles. We'll see how the 2017 season goes for the Broncos' offense.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by samparnell View Post
    Shanahan - McDaniels - Studesville - Fox - Kubiak - Joseph

    Cutler - Orton - Simms - Tebow - Manning - Osweiler - Siemian - Lynch

    Dennison - McCoy - Gase - Dennison - McCoy

    Slowik - Nolan - Martindale - Allen - Del Rio - Phillips - Woods

    All of that in about ten years; an interesting and sometimes crazy decade.
    Take Manning and Phillips out and the decade might have looked quite different. Even though it did not turn out differently, the turnover and lack of consistency is alarming!

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