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  1. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMR81 View Post
    It's funny reading the posts about the comparison being disrespectful. Clearly the ones who think it's desperation didn't read the 2 or 3 paragraphs linked. It's not about Trevor being a future first ballot HOFer and becoming the undisputed GOAT one day like Brady. What they are comparing is Trevor being overlooked in the draft as Brady was and having the potential to be a good QB early in his career as Brady was able to do. Very fair comparisons, especially when you look at each players first year stats. Trevor may even have thrown for over 4,000 yds had be not been injured. Maybe if his last name was Tebow or Osweiler more would be ok with the comparison? ��
    This post is comparable to the Venezuelan stock market. Started good, but you can't even see the line on the bottom by the time it gets to the end.
    Very Special Thank-You to Freyaka for such an extraordinary Sig!!!..... Formerly known as IAMRED

  2. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strip Sacked View Post
    This post is comparable to the Venezuelan stock market. Started good, but you can't even see the line on the bottom by the time it gets to the end.
    People on here love them some Tebow so you never know. There were also a few who were sold on Oz and his laser rocket arm last year and felt he was our future. Trevor is apparently only a 7th rounder backup after just his first year, so it is unwise to compare his career startup to Brady's startup.

    If only we'd kept Osweiler this thread could be about Oz being the next Brady. Instead we let the future slip away to Houston. Now he's in Cleveland where he, himself and his laser rocket arm shall lead the Browns to many SB victories.

  3. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by SaltySnipes View Post
    ironic considering we got busted filming the 49ers under mcdaniesl.. God bless Josh, for setting us up with an awesome GM, 2 Superbowl appearances (1 ring) Von miller, Roby, Shane Ray, Wolf, etc and a promising young team with Elway being a great GM.
    I'd rather bless Floyd Little. Without him, it's doubtful there would even be the Denver Broncos.

  4. #214
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    I do like the way Trevor carries himself, And he did do some good stuff last year. I would love to see him do great here in Denver. As for TB, I have always doubted or tried to discredit him one way or another until last February, and now I respect his game and what he does.

  5. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by capt. Jack View Post
    I do like the way Trevor carries himself, And he did do some good stuff last year. I would love to see him do great here in Denver. As for TB, I have always doubted or tried to discredit him one way or another until last February, and now I respect his game and what he does.
    Ugh. I am the opposite. I have always given him credit for being great, but his super bowl immortal status that resulted from a mostly bad game and the falcons doing evrrything wrong late...not so much.

  6. #216
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    It's good to label Brady as the GOAT because our defense is his weakness. We're the only team he has a losing record against. We will haunt him forever.

  7. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by SaltySnipes View Post
    It's good to label Brady as the GOAT because our defense is his weakness. We're the only team he has a losing record against. We will haunt him forever.
    Don't forget that his first ever NFL loss and his first ever NFL playoff loss also came at the hands of the Broncos.
    "I never lose, I either win or I learn."

  8. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmc0605 View Post
    Ugh. I am the opposite. I have always given him credit for being great, but his super bowl immortal status that resulted from a mostly bad game and the falcons doing evrrything wrong late...not so much.
    Have to agree with you here. Although I do respect Brady's fire and passion to win. But think he benefitted from having Belicheat as a coach. Actually, I think the two together are greater than the sum of their parts. Their synergy is something else. And I don't think either would have nearly as much success without the other.

    Lastly, Brady will never do one thing that only one QB had ever been able to accomplish. Winning a SuperBowl with two different teams. That takes one heck of a QB to pull off that feat.

  9. #219
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    To me, Tom Brady will always be asterisk boy. As such, he should have his own comic book.
    "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

  10. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrewmlb View Post
    I wonder what patriot fans argue about.........
    Which Superbowl Championship is their favorite.

  11. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by Three peat View Post
    Which Superbowl Championship is their favorite.
    Along with 11 other NFL franchises?

  12. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMR81 View Post
    It's funny reading the posts about the comparison being disrespectful. Clearly the ones who think it's desperation didn't read the 2 or 3 paragraphs linked. It's not about Trevor being a future first ballot HOFer and becoming the undisputed GOAT one day like Brady. What they are comparing is Trevor being overlooked in the draft as Brady was and having the potential to be a good QB early in his career as Brady was able to do. Very fair comparisons, especially when you look at each players first year stats. Trevor may even have thrown for over 4,000 yds had be not been injured. Maybe if his last name was Tebow or Osweiler more would be ok with the comparison? 😀
    I did overlook the draft placement comparison. I do believe Trevor was overlooked, injuries being a huge reason, and having a lot of split QB time in college didn't help. I definitely think Tom Brady was overlooked, though Bill Polian claims he had a 1st rd grade on him when Polian was a Colts GM. I still think Brady was better early in his career than Trevor but it isn't a huge gap. Brady continued to improve we don't know if Trevor will do that yet so I thought it was premature to make a comparison.

  13. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strip Sacked View Post
    This post is comparable to the Venezuelan stock market. Started good, but you can't even see the line on the bottom by the time it gets to the end.
    Yep...

    Was a good post, went downhill

    Why is my man Tebow or that guy Brett being mentioned here?

  14. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMR81 View Post
    Yes, he can hold the ball too long and strays back in the pocket.
    Some of that was wanting to go for a bigger play down the field (which Kubiak rebuked Siemian for doing) and the straying back into the pocket was not trusting the protection up the middle.

    After Kubiak criticized Siemian for the latter, Siemian (rightly) still didn't trust the protection up the middle, but started to stray back and then to his left (so somewhere behind Okung).


    Quote Originally Posted by SMR81 View Post
    Some people say he doesn't go through his progressions quick enough, I disagree. I thinks he's just a little too safe with the ball and doesn't make the decision to fire quick enough. He was in a horrid offensive system last season with a ton of injuries. He played good considering the circumstances, and would have played better with just an average offense. It's looking like he could have a really good team on his side of the ball so I expect a big leap from him this year.

    From ESPN's Legwold -

    For Siemian, opposing defensive coaches have said he has the demeanor in the pocket that's tough to face because he makes quick decisions without being rushed in his reads. Those same coaches also have said his willingness to fit the ball in tight spaces and throw with anticipation gives him the look of a starter.

    His biggest hurdle in the months to come is to know when to say when with the ball. In short, he takes too many hits and he often takes a risk or two with throws outside the numbers that he shouldn't.


    http://www.espn.com/blog/denver-bron...hey-need-to-do

    Those surveyed echoed Joseph's thoughts. One of the defensive coordinators offered that if the Broncos had been able to give Siemian a cleaner pocket more often, he could have been a 4,000-yard passer. Siemian missed two starts with injuries and finished with 3,401 yards.

    Where Siemian’s work is to be done, they said, was first physically -- that he simply must get stronger. Siemian had left (non-throwing) shoulder surgery in the days following the season, so he won't be able to begin his workouts until he is cleared medically.

    Those surveyed also said his willingness to stand in, take a hit and still make a throw showed he keeps his eyes downfield and can work when there is traffic around him. But they added that he tends to hold the ball when stressed at times -- common among young quarterbacks who worry about the impact of mistakes on their playing status -- and takes too many unnecessary hits.

    The defensive coaches noted that Siemian can be difficult to defend at his best, because he did show he could fit passes into tight spaces. But he also takes risks at times he shouldn’t with passes outside the numbers.


    http://www.espn.com/blog/denver-bron...n-starting-job


    NFL.com also ranked Siemian as being among the Top 10 most aggressive QBs.

    10) Trevor Siemian, Denver Broncos (20.8 percent of his passes)

    Trevor Siemian's name appearing at the tail end of this list is likely a surprise for most. However, this should go to show just how much more was asked of Siemian in 2016 than the Broncos could have ever possibly hoped for, as they likely never envisioned a scenario where they would need him to throw 20.8 percent of his passes into tight coverage. With the collapse of both Denver's running game after C.J. Anderson's injury and the overall woes of the pass protection, Siemian needed to make more difficult throws in aggressive situations than originally anticipated. To his credit, he responded well and his 48 completion percentage on tight window throws was the sixth-best among starting quarterbacks. Even the short throws became high-degree of difficulty ones for the Broncos quarterback. His 18.4 tight window percentage on passes that traveled less than 10 air yards was the eight-highest, but again, his 58.9 completion rate on those throws ranked inside the top-five. Siemian has some flaws in his game, there's no doubt about that, but you can take many positives from his time as the starter which saw more on his plate than originally planned for. The next head coach in Denver has to at least wonder if Siemian's 2017 season will be even better if the offense is stabilized around him, and perhaps a big move for a Tony Romo-type player is not necessary.


    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300...aggressive-qbs



    Quote Originally Posted by Freyaka View Post
    I'm not him, but I'm going to hop in on this one. TS's big weakness is moderate to deep sideline passes, he's good inside, but outside he has had some struggles. He's struggled with them since college, he still seems to in the pros. That could get better, or we could just do our best to mask it. He's very, very smart, potentially Peyton Manning smart when it comes to football X's and O's (To me, based on the very little I've seen, intelligence seems to be Lynch's biggest weakness) He's got a weaker arm than some (though not as weak as some try to make it seem)
    Would disagree on that.

    Siemian's big passing plays in college was the deep sideline passes and he also throws a beautiful back shoulder pass.

    Siemian was a gunslinger in HS and his early time at Northwestern, but his OC at NU wanted a short, quick ball control passing game (in part to make up for the deficiencies at the O-line and running game, as well as at WR - who had trouble getting separation); the short, quick ball control passing game is what McCoy likes to do, with some deep shots sprinkled in.


    Quote Originally Posted by Freyaka View Post
    Last season he had a bad habit of checking down too quickly and not taking enough chances. That could be a directive from the coaching staff that he was acting on, but I'd like to see that improve this season.
    Kubiak actually got on Siemian for throwing the ball deep (an incompletion) when he had a short pass open to the TE (Green) which was the 1st read.

    Where Siemian needs to improve is in attacking the zone. Zone coverage is kryptonite for young QBs, esp. when defenses show man and then switch to zone (Cousins still has trouble with zone and he's been in the league going on 6 years).


    Quote Originally Posted by champ&dreallday View Post
    I was very frustrated this season seeing no safety help over DT or Sanders and there was no audible/check to take a shot and throw the go route. Even if Kubiak had called a play, I would think most QBs have the green light to say I saw big play potential, so I called a go route. I never saw that from Trevor and it looked like the offense didn't request that he make risky throws
    See above - opposing defensive coaches would disagree and Siemian was one of the most aggressive passers when it came to throwing into tight windows.

    Also, the Kubiak scheme and scripted plays really hampered what Siemian was allowed to do and call. When Siemian did have the option to change the play (which was only about 20% of the time), it was just Play B (as opposed to Play A).

    That's why when off-script in the 4th Q, Siemian was a lot more effective (being ranked 8th in 4th Q QB rating).

    McCoy's system is a lot more flexible and gives the QB a lot more options when it comes to changing plays at the LoS.

    Also, last season, teams learned to stop blitzing Siemian (who would burn them) and just keep the safeties back in bracket or shell coverage; no need to send an extra pass rusher as could still get pressure on the QB and the only 2 real threats the Broncos had were the 2 outside receivers. RB, TE and slot? Not so much.


    Quote Originally Posted by champ&dreallday View Post
    Brady on the other hand was kind of tossed into the fire when Bledsoe went down. Look back at his first SB run. On several occasions, he either was given the opportunity to throw a 30 yard post on 3rd and 5 or made the call himself. Either way, even as a young QB, drafted in the 6th round, they went pedal to the medal with Brady, as much as they could. I didn't see that with TS, and I don't think that was because of his shoulder or the O line.
    Brady, Roethlisberger, Wilson, etc. were all game managers early in their careers.

    Those teams relied on defense and the ground game.


    Quote Originally Posted by SMR81 View Post
    Siemian should be able to beat out Lynch, even in this shotgun heavy McCoy scheme that almost everyone thinks will favor Lynch over Siemian.
    It's a false premise that McCoy's system favors Lynch.

    Siemian played in shotgun in both HS and college in a spread system and had to learn how to take 3 and 7 step drops in his rookie year.


    Quote Originally Posted by ksubroncosfan View Post
    Betcha you won't see that on a steelers forum
    Roethlisberger was a game manager early in his career.

    And many a time, Steeler fans wanted Roethlisberger to take the check-down instead of throwing into double coverage for an INT.

    Also, last season, Brown showed up Roethlisberger up when Ben missed him being open and took a check down to the TE,
    Last edited by ac24; Yesterday at 09:45 PM.

  15. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by duhyaj View Post
    I'll bite, I'm not really on the fence for anyone in particular, but these comparisons are ludicrous at best... The only two things Seimien and TB12 have in common are late round picks and well that's it.....

    Tom Brady plays with Fire and passion, so much so it makes me sick, I hate him to the core, but his team mates love him and play hard for him, much like guys did with Elway. TS is meek. TB12 plays to this day with a boulder on his back, not just a chip on his shoulder. TS just seems happy to be there kind of guy.
    So you know better than Siemian's teammates?

    "I remember seeing him last year, when I first started seeing him throw, and he was the guy that I was throwing with prior to games," Sanders said of Siemian. "I remember telling Demaryius (Thomas): 'This dude has an arm. He can make every single throw.' It's just all about opportunity in this league."

    “Even when he comes into the huddle, Miley Cyrus can be playing and it can be third-and-five and Trevor can be singing a song while he comes in the huddle. He keeps everyone calm,” Sanders said. “The National Football League is a pressure situation, we are always put under pressure, so once you have the main leader of the offense always calm and cool, the offense will be the same.”

    Rod Smith on what he was told of Siemian.

    “One of the receivers (raved about Siemian) last year when he was basically the scout team guy,” Smith said. “He said, ‘Dude, this guy throws like Aaron Rodgers.’ I said, ‘Man, do you understand who Aaron Rodgers is? You can’t compare this guy to Aaron Rodgers.’ He said, ‘Just trust me. This guy is going to be a star in this league.’ And I believe that to this day.”


    Or how 'bout Siemian's new coach?

    The high praise didn't end there, either. Joseph also raved about Siemian's intelligence and intangibles.

    "Players want to play for him," Joseph told Palmer. "They want to win for him."



    Even Lynch fan-boy, Cecil Lammey concedes that Siemian has the locker room and is loved by his teammates.


    Quote Originally Posted by duhyaj View Post
    Brady can make every throw, (getting a bit weaker on long balls as he ages, but young Brady could throw any route), TS can check down and throw intermediate inside throws, the rest were iffy at best.
    Brady is deadly accurate and on time, always has been, TS not so much.
    A healthy Siemian has a stronger arm than Brady and it took several years of playing for Brady to become Brady.


    Quote Originally Posted by broncos SB2010 View Post
    I agree with what you say but sometimes habits can not be broken and Siemian has a habit of checking down already. It's one thing for a QB to come who didn't do it in college to come in and play it safe. It's another for a QB with a history of it...so much so that his own team called him "checkdown trevor"...to come in and continue doing it. Many times...that's just who they are as a QB. Also...it's one thing to checkdown to a short pass when needed but on 3rd down and you continually checkdown short of the 1st down marker...I have to question that.
    Again, that's a huge MYTH.

    Siemian was 8th or 10th (depending on the source) among all QBs when it came to converting on 3rd and long pass plays (and that was done with a crappy line protecting him).

    Trevor was also in the positive when it came to ALEX.

    http://www.footballoutsiders.com/ale...-season-review



    Quote Originally Posted by FR Tim View Post
    I tend to look at the quality of those 14 starts though. IMO they are not as impressive as some would like to think. For every 10 minute highlight reel posted you could just as easily find 10 mins of poor play. His accomplishments are getting overblown. He may have been the best Bronco QB by default last year but overall he was a mediocre QB at best among his peers.
    Siemian may have been lower-middling among all NFL starters (most of whom were seasoned vets), but historically ranks very well among rookie or 2nd year starters in their 1st season of action (and that's with a horrible O-line and no run game).

    .. Of the 15 first- or second-year quarterbacks with at least 350 attempts in their first season as starters since 2012, Siemian's 84.6 rating ranks sixth, ahead of Jameis Winston, Derek Carr and Andrew Luck, among others, and behind Dak Prescott, Robert Griffin III, Russell Wilson, Marcus Mariota and Teddy Bridgewater.

    All-time, Siemian's rating places him 19th of 109 first- or second-year passers with 350 or more attempts in their first season as a starter. His plus-8 touchdown-to-interception margin is tied for 17th among those 109 quarterbacks.


    http://www.denverbroncos.com/news-an...8-bd7015a445fe

    Also...

    Siemian's 91.5 third-down rating placed him ninth among the 34 quarterbacks with at least 50 third-down attempts. It was also 5.4 points above the league average.

    Note - would have been higher, but for the numerous drops on crucial 3rd downs (which cost the Broncos several games.)


    Quote Originally Posted by broncos SB2010 View Post
    I don't like the argument of...he played well for -----fill in the blank--- either he played well, or he didn't....yes, he is a young, inexperienced player but I don't like the qualifications people put on his play.
    Siemian has a higher QB rating in his 1st year starting than Wentz.

    Guess that means Philly fans should be in despair and not filled with hope.

    Siemian also has a higher QB rating in his 1st year starting than Carr.

    Gee, I wonder how Carr improved?

    Experience + the Raiders adding more pieces around Carr starting with the O-line.


    Quote Originally Posted by broncolee View Post
    What lack of talent?

    There aren't many receiver duos better than Thomas and Sanders.

    Was it a lack of talent or was it his inability to use the talent around him?
    That's not enough for an offense as opposing defensive co-ordinators learned to just keep 2 safeties back.

    Joseph, himself, stated that he would have used bracket or shell coverage against the Broncos to take away DT and Sanders.

    No O-line, RB, TE or slot.

    That's asking a lot of a 1st year starting to make up for the deficiencies at those positions (not to mention playing through a serious inju

    Hmmm - what positions did Elway address in FA and the draft?
    Last edited by ac24; 05-21-2017 at 02:53 AM.

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