Do you believe in GOD?

Return of Lava · ^#1 11-12-2003, 09:25 PM

I dont understand how you cant.

The-4th-Amigo · ^#2 11-13-2003, 01:34 AM

Yes, I believe in Jesus!
Unfortunetly a lot o f people do not believe in God.

muse · ^#3 11-13-2003, 03:54 AM

I don't...my life took a downturn when I did, so I rejected it. I can't see how god can exist actually...I like things like the Onion which trivialise it more...the 'Christ Returns to the NBA' article is gold.

rascal · ^#4 11-13-2003, 08:54 AM

Yes I believe in God. I find it amazing that people can't, because there are so many things that can't be explained, and the only explanation is God. Furthermore, I would have a hard time finding the meaning of life, if there was no God. If there is no meaning in life, what prevents me and everyone else from doing (killing, raping, stealing, etc) whatever they want?

Broncofan-13 · ^#5 11-13-2003, 09:07 AM

yes I believe in god, but I dont really come to the boards to have my faith questioned.

orangenblue420 · ^#6 11-13-2003, 09:59 AM

At this point in my life I am in a quandry. I believe with my heart there is a God and I believe in Jesus. But I dont believe in religion and the "practice" thereof. I believe we (people in general) have taken advantage of it and twisted it and now its a HUGE money maker.

I live in the "Bible Belt" and I am surrounded by some huge Christian organizations and see in the inner workings of some, being in the legal field, and it totally disgusts me.

There are so many unanswered questions, both for and against, that it comes down to your personal belief and faith.

And Broncofan 13, its a topic for discussion, thats why its in the anything but football thread...........and if you ddidnt like being questioned, why did you voluntarily answer?

RunByDesign · ^#7 11-13-2003, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Return of Lava
I dont understand how you cant.

I will not pretend to know one way or the other. In my opinion, God can niether be proven or unproven.

So called "proof" is based upon stories. "Disproof" is almost always based on inexact sciences or studies of unexplanable events. To committ to one or the other is to be without understanding, IMO.

Will I be the sorry one for this point of view? I really don't care. If I should be wasting my time performing ritualistic worship of something that there is no proof of but stories, then in my opinion, God should come and tell me so hisself/herself?. Is that so much to ask?

For all those religous peoples who may be offended for this simplistic, but realistic view, I say that in reality, I am not much different from you; albiet I do not take part in ritualistic worship of anything. I indeed am a good person who believes in good and bad and has morals. How? You say? Just because I don't belive in what you have blindly believed in, does not mean I have to be without love, justice or any other characteristic that makes a person whole and good.

Taken into consideration of this question is the fact that there are THOUSANDS of religions and millions of religous views on our little planet.

Stories is what they are.

Ways of control is what they amount to.

Broncofan-13 · ^#8 11-13-2003, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by orangenblue420

And Broncofan 13, its a topic for discussion, thats why its in the anything but football thread...........and if you ddidnt like being questioned, why did you voluntarily answer?

Im sorry. this wasnt directed at lava or anyone on this board. but due to the fact that Im not a frequent church goer, people have looked at me like a heathen. I just got a little defensive. luckily, one of my best friends is a frequent churchgoer, and he doesnt think I am evil cuz I dont go to sermons. so I know there are many people out there who dont judge you on faith alone. my bad, lava. but I do believe in god and jesus, and not to get preachy, but I love them.

Javalon · ^#9 11-13-2003, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by rascal
Yes I believe in God. I find it amazing that people can't, because there are so many things that can't be explained, and the only explanation is God. Furthermore, I would have a hard time finding the meaning of life, if there was no God. If there is no meaning in life, what prevents me and everyone else from doing (killing, raping, stealing, etc) whatever they want?

Do you believe in the Christian God or just god as a concept?

Just to play the Devil's Advocate (pun intended

) I would like to address a couple of items in your statement:

1) "there are so many things that can't be explained, and the only explanation is God."

Mankind has long tried to grapple with issues they cannot understand and have thought up higher powers to fill in the blanks. The Greeks are a perfect example; we call their religion "mythology" and think them a little silly for believing in obvious fabrications. But how is the "modern" view on God any different? There are so many things that, in the past, humans couldn't explain that are now easily explainable. Who's to say that, given enough time, we won't answer most or all of the questions you now consider unexplainable?

2) "Furthermore, I would have a hard time finding the meaning of life, if there was no God. If there is no meaning in life, what prevents me and everyone else from doing (killing, raping, stealing, etc) whatever they want?"

You obviously discount the hoards of non-believers out there that manage to find meaning in life despite not believing in God. Do you not see that, as a generally intelligent species, humankind has the intelligence to see the wisdom of not just "doing whatever they want?" There have been terrible events in the world's history that illustrate that there are some individuals who have tried to do whatever they want. But many of them acted in the name of God; this is an exact counter to your statement that God gives meaning to life and therefore keeps people from killing, raping, stealing, etc.

Now, I'm not trying to be overly harsh here. It's just that in discussions like this one, there are often answers like yours that are given without looking at the world from a little bit broader perspective. I am not attacking your (or anybody else's) personal beliefs; rather, I just get a little bemused at answers like that one I'm curious as to the thoughts behind your post.

rascal · ^#10 11-13-2003, 12:34 PM

I am a devout Christian, and many of the things I said were simply to start a discussion and were not what I necessarily believed in. I have studied many other religions (Islam and Buddhism) and have had experience living in countries such as China and Japan so I have a broad perspective of the world. I was not offended by your comments, and I hope that mine did not offend you, I simply made them to start the discussion since it appeared that it wasn't going anywhere. Before I start this, please do not become offended (Javalon or anyone else) about what I am saying. I respect your rights to believe in God, or not believe in God, and as you said I am not attaking you, or anyone else, beliefs.

Addressing your points:

1) Just to jump into the fray....Where do you, and others, think all of this, our surroundings, came from? How did the universe become the universe? It can't come from nothing. It is true many of the things that ancient scholars found unexplainable have been explained to a degree. But the question I posed above still remains...where did all of this come from? I'm an engineer, so I have a scientific background, and I find it impossible to get all of this from nothing. Someone or something had to create all of this...and that points to God in my opinion.

2) It is true that many horrible acts have been done in the name of Christianity and many other religions. That is perhaps the darkest part of any religion, and one that is often shunned by many religious followers. However, just because there are people that misconstrue what the basic beliefs are of a religion does not make that religious belief false. If you have studied the Bible, you know that Jesus was a man who would condemn many of the horrible acts described earlier. He stressed how we should treat others and how we should live our lives, which today's world would describe a person who lived that lifestyle as weak, humble, or meek.

I assume that you do not believe in God. If you do so then I apologize. I will not go into Jesus yet, but start with God. Because if you don't believe in God, how can one expect to believe in Jesus. The second question I have for you is this: Why do you not believe in God?

I won't be able to respond till later tonight as I have meetings rest of the day, but I will try to respond ASAP to your comments.

orang/blu in LA · ^#11 11-13-2003, 01:31 PM

Well, i believe in God but don't subscribe to a certain religion at all. i consider myself more of a spiritual person, as i do have a very strong faith in a higher power. i was raised by my father who is mostly Zoroastrian (he's from Kurdistan of Iraq) and my mother who was raised Catholic (she's Belgian, but raised in Minnesota) - two VERY different people with different beliefs, so my "religious" upbringing was always very muddled... though they let me decide for myself what i believed in. through the years i've found my own beliefs, and they make me happy, and that's what's important.

I have no problem with people that don't believe in God. That's fine. In MY life i've found reasons to believe, and that's why i do. As long as it's not used as a crutch or an excuse, i support anyone and their religious beliefs. I DO, however, take issue with the idea that b/c someone is a particular relgion that means their faith is stronger than mine (which, going to catholic school - for the education - i was told a few times)...or that for someone to be good, they must believe in God. I don't think someone has to be religious to have morals or ethics- one does not hinge on the other. And i don't think that one has to go to church to have a relationship with God either. I believe in God very strongly - but would never get married in a church (not that i should, but you know, this is an example) - i would get married in the mountains, or by the ocean, as that's where i feel God's presence the most. but that's just me. Other than that i won't get into the particulars of what i believe in... unless someone really wants to know. I'll just leave it at that.

orangenblue420 · ^#12 11-13-2003, 01:38 PM

http://nydailynews.com/front/breakin...p-121403c.html

WoodlandPkPunk · ^#13 11-13-2003, 01:57 PM

Yes I do. I am not a holy roller or really a consistant church goer, but I truly beleive in the power of prayer.

Javalon · ^#14 11-13-2003, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rascal
I am a devout Christian, and many of the things I said were simply to start a discussion and were not what I necessarily believed in. I have studied many other religions (Islam and Buddhism) and have had experience living in countries such as China and Japan so I have a broad perspective of the world. I was not offended by your comments, and I hope that mine did not offend you, I simply made them to start the discussion since it appeared that it wasn't going anywhere. Before I start this, please do not become offended (Javalon or anyone else) about what I am saying. I respect your rights to believe in God, or not believe in God, and as you said I am not attaking you, or anyone else, beliefs.

Don't worry, I'm not offended in the slightest. I have always enjoyed theological discussions and I can take either side of the argument.

Quote:

1) Just to jump into the fray....Where do you, and others, think all of this, our surroundings, came from? How did the universe become the universe? It can't come from nothing. It is true many of the things that ancient scholars found unexplainable have been explained to a degree. But the question I posed above still remains...where did all of this come from? I'm an engineer, so I have a scientific background, and I find it impossible to get all of this from nothing. Someone or something had to create all of this...and that points to God in my opinion.

If you can conceive of God (or any god) existing forever then why can you not conceive of the universe existing forever? If God wasn't created then why do you assume the universe was created? The human brain has a near impossible time wrapping itself around the idea of infinity but if it can apply to God then why not the universe?

(On a side note, the Big Bang theory only goes so far but, even if you believed it, there is nothing to tell you what existed before the Bang)

Quote:

2) It is true that many horrible acts have been done in the name of Christianity and many other religions. That is perhaps the darkest part of any religion, and one that is often shunned by many religious followers. However, just because there are people that misconstrue what the basic beliefs are of a religion does not make that religious belief false. If you have studied the Bible, you know that Jesus was a man who would condemn many of the horrible acts described earlier. He stressed how we should treat others and how we should live our lives, which today's world would describe a person who lived that lifestyle as weak, humble, or meek.

Yes, but you had stated that if there was no God, there was no meaning to life and if there's no meaning to life then what would keep people from "doing (killing, raping, stealing, etc) whatever they want."

My point was that belief in God (and Christ) does not keep people from doing whatever they want. And, on the other hand, not believing in God doesn't mean you'll do those exact things. I think most people are decent people who just want to get by in the world. But there are always those who don't, regardless of their religious beliefs. I fully understand that there are those who misconstrue Christianity's basic precepts, and there always will be.

And Jesus was not the first man to stress the ideas attributed to him, he just happened to have a divine background to back it up.

Quote:

I assume that you do not believe in God. If you do so then I apologize. I will not go into Jesus yet, but start with God. Because if you don't believe in God, how can one expect to believe in Jesus. The second question I have for you is this: Why do you not believe in God?

Ah, now there's the real question. If you noticed in my original post I said right up front that I was going to play the Devil's Advocate. As it happens, I do believe in God. I was raised Baptist. However, I no longer believe that the Church has it right. There were always too many questions that pastors, Sunday school teachers, etc. would refuse to (or couldn't) answer. Take it on FAITH, they'd say. I got so sick of that line I just couldn't take it any more.

I do believe there is a God but I'm not sure I buy into the idea that God created us and now insists that we worship him. That seems a little vain. (God, please don't strike me down for saying that!) And I have many other thoughts on the subject but I'm starving so I'll leave it at that.

Ciao!

LawDog · ^#15 11-13-2003, 03:13 PM

(Using "man, he and his" in a gender neutral way)

Mankind always tries to put things in a context that makes it so (1) he can get his mental arms around it, and (2) try and explain it to someone else. Throughout history man has tried to describe God in such a way. But God's nature is not limited to what we can see, feel and otherwise directly experience. That is the beauty of faith. Trusting in something that you have no possibility of proving or controlling. My own feelings are that religions are a man created way of trying to accomplish points (1) and (2), supra. You and I can be looking at the same cloud and have two entirely different interpretations of what it looks like. God exists whether we believe or not, we choose to have faith or not and through the exercise of free will, we accept the consequence of our choice.

Sorry for the stream of consciousness method of this post, I was just thinking and typing...

Interesting thread. I am interested to see how it goes along.