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View Full Version : Why Denver should wait until Round 2 to draft a DT



Max Power
01-26-2008, 03:46 PM
- Ellis and Dorsey will both be gone by #12.

- No other remaining DT is worth that high a pick.

- A myriad of good DT prospects will be available in round 2 and later, including Dre Moore, Pat Sims, Trevor Laws, DeMario Pressley, Marcus Harrison, etc.

- Who should we draft? My sig says it all, in order of personal preference from left to right. Trading down is an appealing option, but I wouldn't get my hopes up on that.

Momentum
01-26-2008, 03:50 PM
Id even be happy with Balmer at #12, even though that is a large reach.. but look at Donte Whitner

Max Power
01-26-2008, 03:54 PM
Id even be happy with Balmer at #12, even though that is a large reach.. but look at Donte Whitner

true, plus it's not like the word "reach" means anything to Shanahan.

fraguela09
01-26-2008, 04:23 PM
I agree... If Dorsey & Ellis are gone, the only other DT option would be Balmer.

I would then say Connor/Rivers or Phillips should eb the next option, followed by a RB after that (Stewart, Jones, Mendenhall).

I do agree that there are DT and LB available in the second round.

I even read in the DEN POST today how Broncos want another 2 round pick... That makes sense... With 6 picks in Day Two... DEN should try to turn somehting into a 2nd round pick...

Having 3 Day One picks would ensure DEN got 3 quality players... SO, say they get Phillips in the first... They would still be able to grab a DT and a LB in the second... and still have a 4th to get a KR/WR.

Phillips
Lofton
Moore
Royal

That would be nice!

Schism
01-26-2008, 04:46 PM
I'll be shocked, appalled and a wee bit moody if we don't trade down from #12.

There's no value for us picking at #12, particularly with the depth in Round 2 and the amount of needs on this team.

So yeah, trade down in Round 1 and get a DT with a mid-round pick.

BroncoKazuki
01-26-2008, 04:51 PM
it just means

RB/OT/WR = in the first 2-3 rounds

then defense afterwards

face it folks were getting that prospect RB in the first round no matter how much most of the Defense-thinks think we'll go defense in the first.


THis year is Defensive Depth, next year will have mostly starters in the draft.

rugbythug
01-26-2008, 04:58 PM
true, plus it's not like the word "reach" means anything to Shanahan.


Please name one first round reach?

Max Power
01-26-2008, 05:44 PM
Please name one first round reach?

Willie Middlebrooks

Max Power
01-26-2008, 05:50 PM
it just means

RB/OT/WR = in the first 2-3 rounds

then defense afterwards

face it folks were getting that prospect RB in the first round no matter how much most of the Defense-thinks think we'll go defense in the first.


THis year is Defensive Depth, next year will have mostly starters in the draft.

Well, if you say so. :coffee:

BroncoKazuki
01-26-2008, 06:10 PM
Well, if you say so. :coffee:

If shanny screws up the draft this year by reaching for a player. Im virtually be putting the Anti-Shanny threads up every game of the season.

With so many great Chances to finally fix the Run game, the O-line and to get quaility defensive players.

This is a freaking no-brainier for him. if he goes defense I'm seriously gonna call into question his train of thought.

I seriously question why people think we'll find the 2nd coming of TD in the 4th 5th 6th rounds. If that were true we should of had him 2 seasons ago.

Our last best RB was Porits and he was drafted in round 2.:coffee:

Max Power
01-26-2008, 06:14 PM
If shanny screws up the draft this year by reaching for a player. Im virtually be putting the Anti-Shanny threads up every game of the season.

With so many great Chances to finally fix the Run game, the O-line and to get quaility defensive players.

This is a freaking no-brainier for him. if he goes defense I'm seriously gonna call into question his train of thought.

I seriously question why people think we'll find the 2nd coming of TD in the 4th 5th 6th rounds. If that were true we should of had him 2 seasons ago.

Our last best RB was Porits and he was drafted in round 2.:coffee:

You're going to question the train of thought that our defense was one of the league's worst, especially against the run? Yeah, I mean what the HELL is he thinking trying to fix the biggest weakness? :rolleyes:

BroncoKazuki
01-26-2008, 06:16 PM
You're going to question the train of thought that our defense was one of the league's worst, especially against the run? Yeah, I mean what the HELL is he thinking trying to fix the biggest weakness? :rolleyes:

hmm...

you know what I guess you cant seem to grasp that the Defensive Scheme last year was virtually non-existent witch lead to our crappy defense ranking.

It was like watching Pee-wee defensive style football.

Yes our D-line was horrid but without a scheme to play of course its gonna look bad.

in fact go read some of Lancane's stuff and tell him the same things your telling me. He came up with the same conclusion I've had at the start of this year's draft season that the Defense did poorly was mainly influenced by the coaching staff.

:coffee:

Max Power
01-26-2008, 06:23 PM
hmm...

you know what I guess you cant seem to grasp that the Defensive Scheme last year was virtually non-existent witch lead to our crappy defense ranking.

Defensive scheme non-existant? Did we not run the base 4-3 with not much blitzing and the corners playing 8 yards off their man? You can't tell me that's not a scheme. This defense lacks talent and playmakers, even leaders.

It was like watching Pee-wee defensive style football.

Yes our D-line was horrid but without a scheme to play of course its gonna look bad.

There was a scheme to play. You can argue it wasn't a good scheme, but it was a scheme nonetheless.

in fact go read some of Lancane's stuff and tell him the same things your telling me. I think he'll come with the same conclusion I've had at the start of this year's draft season.

Been there, done that, no thank you.

:coffee:

------------

fraguela09
01-26-2008, 06:29 PM
Right now... with Walker-Henry still here... You have to assume Shanny will go defense in the first round... Ellis-Phillips-LB. I would think Ellis-Phillips in the first round, a LB in the second PLUS getting another second to grab a RB or WR.

OF COURSE, chances are Walker-Henry are gone and if this happens, I could see Shanny doing something. Still, right now... I think Clady-Ellis-Phillips are the targets...

I think a FS like Barrett plus a first round RB is better than Phillips and a 4th round RB... That's just me.

I think Shanny wants to get another 2nd and a third rounder... Give him more flexibility.

JvDub95
01-26-2008, 06:36 PM
If shanny screws up the draft this year by reaching for a player. Im virtually be putting the Anti-Shanny threads up every game of the season.

With so many great Chances to finally fix the Run game, the O-line and to get quaility defensive players.

This is a freaking no-brainier for him. if he goes defense I'm seriously gonna call into question his train of thought.

I seriously question why people think we'll find the 2nd coming of TD in the 4th 5th 6th rounds. If that were true we should of had him 2 seasons ago.

Our last best RB was Porits and he was drafted in round 2.:coffee:


I didn't know we had anything wrong with the run game:confused: Weren't we like in top 5 or something like that in yardage? There are trades available for the running back position if Henry is booted. I just read somewhere that the saints weren't committed to picking up Duece McCallisters contract, he would be an excellent addition, imo. When was the last time Shanahan picked running back with the first pick? I might take you a while to find it, because he's never done it. Clinton Portis was a second rounder and TD was a fourth rounder. He won't spend the top dollar money on a running back when he knows that almost anybody will do. With the defense as bad as it was this last season I don't see how he can't go with defense first, and maybe the next 3:coffee:

fraguela09
01-26-2008, 06:39 PM
Henry led NFL in ruhsing after first few games... And.. Walker was a beast.

I doubt both return... but not unlikely. Keeping these two will allow DEN to address other needs, and then focus on RB and WR in future drafts.

I'm on the fence really... Have to see what falls to us at 12. Football is won in the trneched though... AND, Broncos are clos eot having the lines for the next 5 years... SO... why not complete the overhaul?

AND... I think gettign stud LBs is a must!

JvDub95
01-26-2008, 06:44 PM
Henry led NFL in ruhsing after first few games... And.. Walker was a beast.

I doubt both return... but not unlikely. Keeping these two will allow DEN to address other needs, and then focus on RB and WR in future drafts.

I'm on the fence really... Have to see what falls to us at 12. Football is won in the trneched though... AND, Broncos are clos eot having the lines for the next 5 years... SO... why not complete the overhaul?

AND... I think gettign stud LBs is a must!

I think you hit it right on, we can't continue to allow that kind of yardage on the ground and having good LB's behing good D-linemen are what Shanahan's offseason will be all about.:salute:

broncofansd
01-26-2008, 06:50 PM
I don't think we can wait til the 2nd Round to get a good DT. Here is the solution.

We trade #12 to Dallas for its 1st(22nd), 2nd, and 3rd Round Picks.

1st Round #22 ---Pat Sims DT Auburn 6'4" 312lbs monster DT from the SEC. Was ALL-SEC with Glen Dorsey at DT.

2nd Round Pick---Erin Henderson LB Maryland 6'3" 243lbs Tackling machine from Maryland.

2nd Round Pick(Dallas)---DaJuan Morgan Safety NC State. 6'1" 205lbs Had 117 tackles this year. Excellent player to learn from John Lynch

3rd Round Pick(Dallas)---Eddie Royal WR Virginia Tech


4th Round Pick-------Duane Brown Tackle Virginia Tech

4th Round Pick-------Matt Forte RB Tulane

5th Round Pick-------Kevin Robinson WR/KR

5th Round Pick-------Durant Brooks Punter

7th Round Pick-------Maurice Murray DT New Mexico St.

7th Round Pick-------Glen Sharpe CB Miami

Free Agents Corey Williams
Marlon McCree
DJ Hackett

fraguela09
01-26-2008, 06:52 PM
I think you hit it right on, we can't continue to allow that kind of yardage on the ground and having good LB's behing good D-linemen are what Shanahan's offseason will be all about.:salute:

Let's just say DEN signs Boss Bailey or something... They then draft a DT and a LB in the first two rounds... BASICALLY, the defesnive front seven will be locked-in and written in stone for the next 5 years...

DJ-Bailey-Rookie
Elvis-Thomas-Rookie-Crowder (Moss)

NOw... say the Broncos bring in a guy like Shaun Rogers... THEN, DEN might adjust their thinking and get a DT in the 4th, thus opening up a Day One pick for another need.

NOW... say Phillips falls to them... They sign Boss and get Rogers, add Phillips and a secon round LB... NOw they have their fron 7 plus Champ-Dre-Hamza-Phillips...

NOW, DEN can turn their attention to the offense b/c their defensive will be good to go for a few years.


Elvis-Thomas-Rogers-Crowder (Moss)
DJ-Lofton-Bailey
Champ-Hamza-Phillips-Bly

fraguela09
01-26-2008, 06:55 PM
I don't think we can wait til the 2nd Round to get a good DT. Here is the solution.

We trade #12 to Dallas for its 1st(22nd), 2nd, and 3rd Round Picks.

1st Round #22 ---Pat Sims DT Auburn 6'4" 312lbs monster DT from the SEC. Was ALL-SEC with Glen Dorsey at DT.

2nd Round Pick---Erin Henderson LB Maryland 6'3" 243lbs Tackling machine from Maryland.

2nd Round Pick(Dallas)---DaJuan Morgan Safety NC State. 6'1" 205lbs Had 117 tackles this year. Excellent player to learn from John Lynch

3rd Round Pick(Dallas)---Eddie Royal WR Virginia Tech


4th Round Pick-------Duane Brown Tackle Virginia Tech

4th Round Pick-------Matt Forte RB Tulane

5th Round Pick-------Kevin Robinson WR/KR

5th Round Pick-------Durant Brooks Punter

7th Round Pick-------Maurice Murray DT New Mexico St.

7th Round Pick-------Glen Sharpe CB Miami

Free Agents Corey Williams
Marlon McCree
DJ Hackett





I LIKE IT... I could live with this draft. We all pretty much agree on what positions need upgraded but just differ on the order we address them. HArd to guess b/cI need to see what happens before the draft and who is on the board when we select.

BUT... I do agree that DT, FS, LB, KR/WR will be the first needs addressed and if we get extra picks (RB, OL)...


I'm just saying... if we get Rogers then I doubt DT is our first round choice... Stuff like this makes it hard to say for sure what direction we go in... BUT... I do think we all agree that DEN needs to bring in players at DT, FS, LB.

Bowie Man
01-26-2008, 07:48 PM
I don't think we can wait til the 2nd Round to get a good DT. Here is the solution.

We trade #12 to Dallas for its 1st(22nd), 2nd, and 3rd Round Picks.

1st Round #22 ---Pat Sims DT Auburn 6'4" 312lbs monster DT from the SEC. Was ALL-SEC with Glen Dorsey at DT.

2nd Round Pick---Erin Henderson LB Maryland 6'3" 243lbs Tackling machine from Maryland.

2nd Round Pick(Dallas)---DaJuan Morgan Safety NC State. 6'1" 205lbs Had 117 tackles this year. Excellent player to learn from John Lynch

3rd Round Pick(Dallas)---Eddie Royal WR Virginia Tech


4th Round Pick-------Duane Brown Tackle Virginia Tech

4th Round Pick-------Matt Forte RB Tulane

5th Round Pick-------Kevin Robinson WR/KR

5th Round Pick-------Durant Brooks Punter

7th Round Pick-------Maurice Murray DT New Mexico St.

7th Round Pick-------Glen Sharpe CB Miami

Free Agents Corey Williams
Marlon McCree
DJ Hackett



I like it too, but I have one and possibly two problems. 1) There are a lot of ifs, perhaps too many, this is not a big problem since some of it can happen and then the Broncos can pick whatever player they like if one of these guys is not available. The second is a maybe, I'm not familiar with the Dallas needs, do they have a reason to trade up to us?:salute:

Max Power
01-26-2008, 07:54 PM
I don't think we can wait til the 2nd Round to get a good DT. Here is the solution.

We trade #12 to Dallas for its 1st(22nd), 2nd, and 3rd Round Picks.

1st Round #22 ---Pat Sims DT Auburn 6'4" 312lbs monster DT from the SEC. Was ALL-SEC with Glen Dorsey at DT.

2nd Round Pick---Erin Henderson LB Maryland 6'3" 243lbs Tackling machine from Maryland.

2nd Round Pick(Dallas)---DaJuan Morgan Safety NC State. 6'1" 205lbs Had 117 tackles this year. Excellent player to learn from John Lynch

3rd Round Pick(Dallas)---Eddie Royal WR Virginia Tech


4th Round Pick-------Duane Brown Tackle Virginia Tech

4th Round Pick-------Matt Forte RB Tulane

5th Round Pick-------Kevin Robinson WR/KR

5th Round Pick-------Durant Brooks Punter

7th Round Pick-------Maurice Murray DT New Mexico St.

7th Round Pick-------Glen Sharpe CB Miami

Free Agents Corey Williams
Marlon McCree
DJ Hackett



There seems to be an obsession with trading down, especially with Dallas. Would they really want to give up three high picks for a slightly higher 1st round pick? I doubt it. Where they are right now in terms of picks is where the value is. Besides, Pat Sims can probably be had in round 2. That's where he's graded by most scouts right now.

broncofansd
01-26-2008, 08:19 PM
Dallas is the perfect trading partner at 13-3 and not many needs WR/CB. They will definetely be players for Kenny Phillips/Reggie Smith/McKelvin/Cromartie. 4 Rookies arn't going to start for Dallas. If they trade up and get the guy they want they will definetely pull the trigger.

Let's put it this way. If Denver was 13-3 and had 2 1st Round Picks and Shanahan wanted a player would he trade up???????

We all know the answer. Yes. So would Jerry Jones!!!!
____________________________________________

As far as Pat Sims. Kiper Jr. has him rated top 25 players in college. He won't make it to our 2nd Round Pick. Teams like Miami/Cinn/Oak would jump on him.

The great news is LB is loaded in the 2nd Round Henderson/Curtis Lofton/Jerod Mayo/Adibi/ we should easily pick up a great LB in the 2nd Round.

TheFuture6
01-26-2008, 10:35 PM
it just means

RB/OT/WR = in the first 2-3 rounds

then defense afterwards

face it folks were getting that prospect RB in the first round no matter how much most of the Defense-thinks think we'll go defense in the first.


THis year is Defensive Depth, next year will have mostly starters in the draft.

You saying you'd be comfortable starting Kenny Peterson and Marcus Thomas at DT's? Ill pray we rank even 31st against the run with our current DT's. Defensive line is the most important position on the field, DT in particular. We will never have a good D until we get some serious players in there, and serious players are alot harder to find on the 2nd day :coffee:

KWHIT97
01-26-2008, 10:42 PM
If shanny screws up the draft this year by reaching for a player. Im virtually be putting the Anti-Shanny threads up every game of the season.

With so many great Chances to finally fix the Run game, the O-line and to get quaility defensive players.

This is a freaking no-brainier for him. if he goes defense I'm seriously gonna call into question his train of thought.

I seriously question why people think we'll find the 2nd coming of TD in the 4th 5th 6th rounds. If that were true we should of had him 2 seasons ago.

Our last best RB was Porits and he was drafted in round 2.:coffee:

AMEN, BRO!!!:rockon:

KWHIT97
01-26-2008, 10:45 PM
You saying you'd be comfortable starting Kenny Peterson and Marcus Thomas at DT's? Ill pray we rank even 31st against the run with our current DT's. Defensive line is the most important position on the field, DT in particular. We will never have a good D until we get some serious players in there, and serious players are alot harder to find on the 2nd day :coffee:


That is why we sign a FA like Corey Williams or Randy Starks and draft a PROJECT DT in the 4th!!!

BroncoKazuki
01-27-2008, 02:11 AM
You saying you'd be comfortable starting Kenny Peterson and Marcus Thomas at DT's? Ill pray we rank even 31st against the run with our current DT's. Defensive line is the most important position on the field, DT in particular. We will never have a good D until we get some serious players in there, and serious players are alot harder to find on the 2nd day :coffee:

with such an inexperienced defensive line, I'm surprised that they did so well even with the injuries and how poor our coaching was. Yes our Coaching lead to majority of the poor play by our Defensive line, if you think the coaching didnt add to the problem then you are truly blind.

you just cant put Rookie DT's into a Pro setting and not expect some bumps from him learning. But knowing you you'll go "football is football"

The bad thing rookie DT's have going against them is the Veteran-ship of the opponents Offensive line. Rookie DT's take 2-3 years to mature..

Peterson is a backup at best. We need Veteran Leadership and I think at best we need to sign Corey Williams a FA DT from Green Bay.

Theres a thing called not tipping your hand. If Shanny Cut's Henry guess what happens. It tips the rest of the league that we want a RB and quite logically NFL teams will try to move ahead of us screwing us out of our chances to grab a great RB.

Honestly if you cant think about it logically, then just read some of the other pre-drafts.

theres ways to interprate the info.

Madden type drafts

Balanced drafts.

antd700
01-27-2008, 05:17 AM
with such an inexperienced defensive line, I'm surprised that they did so well even with the injuries and how poor our coaching was. Yes our Coaching lead to majority of the poor play by our Defensive line, if you think the coaching didnt add to the problem then you are truly blind.

you just cant put Rookie DT's into a Pro setting and not expect some bumps from him learning. But knowing you you'll go "football is football"

The bad thing rookie DT's have going against them is the Veteran-ship of the opponents Offensive line. Rookie DT's take 2-3 years to mature..

Peterson is a backup at best. We need Veteran Leadership and I think at best we need to sign Corey Williams a FA DT from Green Bay.

Theres a thing called not tipping your hand. If Shanny Cut's Henry guess what happens. It tips the rest of the league that we want a RB and quite logically NFL teams will try to move ahead of us screwing us out of our chances to grab a great RB.

Honestly if you cant think about it logically, then just read some of the other pre-drafts.

theres ways to interprate the info.

Madden type drafts

Balanced drafts.

This is exactly why we should draft a DT this year in the first or, at very least, second round. As you quite rightly say, they take 2-3 years to develop. Do you honestly think that we are good enough to win the superbowl next year? I can't say I do, I think we are probably a playoff team since we were descimated by injuries this year but we simply cannot match up to NE Indy and as gutting as it is to say this, the Chargers. That won't happen for a couple of years so get the stud DT now. Not only that, but it will prolong the careers of Bailey and Bly since as they get older and slower, they don't have to cover for so long.

Now, it is obvious that one of the easiest positions to come in and perform, and perform bloody well, is at RB. Look at Williams a couple of years ago, Peterson last year, hell, with us, look at Mike Bell, and Selvin Young. Both undrafted rookies who put up good numbers and were strong contributors. IN NO WAY AM I SAYING THEY SHOULD BE OUR FEATURE BACK. But why bother wasting a pick on them now, when we know that when the time is right, we can select that feature back, plug him in and let him gain 1500. It would be lovely to see that this year but if we don't fix our defense, we are, at best an 8-8 team. Hell, maybe if we draft the players to help the run defense then we only improve to 9-7 or 10-6. However, then, next year we draft running back and suddenly you vault to 13-3. This is a long term business, and selecting RB is a short term decision that will not benefit us as much as run defense would, preferably in my book, a DT, but I'm open to ideas.

BroncoKazuki
01-27-2008, 06:01 AM
This is exactly why we should draft a DT this year in the first or, at very least, second round. As you quite rightly say, they take 2-3 years to develop. Do you honestly think that we are good enough to win the superbowl next year? I can't say I do, I think we are probably a playoff team since we were descimated by injuries this year but we simply cannot match up to NE Indy and as gutting as it is to say this, the Chargers. That won't happen for a couple of years so get the stud DT now. Not only that, but it will prolong the careers of Bailey and Bly since as they get older and slower, they don't have to cover for so long.

Now, it is obvious that one of the easiest positions to come in and perform, and perform bloody well, is at RB. Look at Williams a couple of years ago, Peterson last year, hell, with us, look at Mike Bell, and Selvin Young. Both undrafted rookies who put up good numbers and were strong contributors. IN NO WAY AM I SAYING THEY SHOULD BE OUR FEATURE BACK. But why bother wasting a pick on them now, when we know that when the time is right, we can select that feature back, plug him in and let him gain 1500. It would be lovely to see that this year but if we don't fix our defense, we are, at best an 8-8 team. Hell, maybe if we draft the players to help the run defense then we only improve to 9-7 or 10-6. However, then, next year we draft running back and suddenly you vault to 13-3. This is a long term business, and selecting RB is a short term decision that will not benefit us as much as run defense would, preferably in my book, a DT, but I'm open to ideas.


Wow..:coffee: i cant believe how awfully you spun my words around. DT's this year other then Ellis and Dorsey are good enough to be ... Depth.

We need some veteran leadership in the D-line to hone in the rest of the line to play well. Theres some good DT's in round 3 and 4. I dont see why we have to use our 12th pick to get a DT.

I doubt Dorsey, Ellis and Phillips will be on the board. Miami, Cinn, NO. all need help on the defensive side.

So those top 2 Defensive DT's will be gone plus the top Safety in the 2008 draft will be gone.

That leaves us with... thats right leaves us perfectly getting a RB in the draft and moving down to do so while grabbing an 3rd pick.

Its easy to yell defense and neglect the offense because of the numbers our system allows RB's to put up. but this year has shown that the "running back by committee" is showing big huge cracks. If you cant see that then you really havent been paying attention.



But why bother wasting a pick on them now, when we know that when the time is right, we can select that feature back, plug him in and let him gain 1500.

This is the same mentality that has gotten us to our current predicament. Imagine if we never traded Portis for Champ. Instead we fixed our D-line and LB core. Have Cutler start this year we may have been in the Play offs against Jax, Pitt or Indy. Thats saying volumes on what a back can do.

Shanny put us in a bind because he was scared of how Manning was able to light up our secondary every time we played them. Thats why we got Champ.. then later Bly.

If anything Shanny has realized that in order for everything to play well we need to be a dominating offense again. Thats how we won during the late 90's, thats how teams are winning now. Solid play making defenses and strong Offense.

Our Defense now is more talented then our Defense was during our SuperBowl Runs. The thing missing is the continuity that our SB defense had.

Everyone expected (granted I was one of them) that when we ousted Coyer and brought in Bates we would have a turn around. Well we know how that went and I think as i look back, it was the poor excuition of our Defense Coaches teaching the scheme and working on it. We wasted last years draft doing nothing but drafting D-linemen for Bates and that didnt do jack. He even cut players that did well under Coyer. If anything 50% of the poor Defense came from the Defensive Coaching Staff being in such turmoil. The rest of the percentage 25% due to injuries and 25% due to just bad play.

Our Offense red zone numbers are horrendous, our running game virtually evaporates when we get in the 20 to goal. We dont have one, With this draft we can remedy it for years to come. I don't see us going 13-3 next year but most likely 11-5 thats if we get the offense back up to speed. Give Cutler more weapons to use and some shielding.

We need a defense but nothing of the level of the Bears and Ravens type. We just need a defense that can come up with key plays at the right time and capitalize on the desperation of our opponents when they make a bad mistake. :salute:

antd700
01-27-2008, 08:01 AM
Wow..:coffee: i cant believe how awfully you spun my words around. DT's this year other then Ellis and Dorsey are good enough to be ... Depth

...



I'm sorry that you think that I spun your words or took them to mean something else, that was never my intention.

Now on to your most recent post, I guess it displays that we have fundamental differences in opinions. You clearly do not think that running back by commitee is not a viable option with the Broncos. Let me state that I agree with you on this. It is not acceptable in the long run, however, unfortunately I think that it is a short term necessity that will reap long term rewards.

I think if you look at the good teams in the league then you will see they are all pretty well rounded, and don't have one are which is a major let down. The Pats, Giants, Chargers, Colts, Packers can all throw the ball effectively, run the ball effectively, and play good defense. Afterall this is a team game. The Broncos defense is nowhere near the standard it needs to be to allow us to be a superbowl contender. I agree with you that we need a good, not great defense, but at the moment we rank 30th in the league. If we are to get back to being a dominant team then we will need a defense that is at least 15th in the league.

I agree with you that we need a defense that makes plays, however we don't have that at the moment. We have potentially 3 playmakers on defense, Dumervil, Bailey and perhaps Bly too. DJ has done a solid job but you cannot call him a playmaker. However, I would be interested to see whether or not you agree with me that adding a quality defensive tackle makes all those around him better? If you do then I think we agree that we need to add a quality DT.

Now that brings us on to another of our paradigm wars; that you think the DTs in this draft (other than Ellis and Dorsey) are good for nothing but depth. With this, I could not disagree any more, Laws, Okam, Balmer, Sims, Bryant, Moore all look to have the tools to be very good defensive tackles in this league. I was particularily impressed with the play of Laws and Bryant at the Senior Bowl. I would be interested as to why you didn't think it was a very good draft in that regard?

FYI in 1998 we were 11th in Total Denfese, 10th in Third Down Percentage, 6th in Sacks, 10th in Interceptions and 15th in Fumbles Recovered. Above average in all those regards. (which we were not in 2007). In 1997 we were 5th in total defense, 1st in Third down percentage (thus proving your point that we need a timely defense - however, I contend that we don't have one at the moment). 6th in scoring defense, 10th in sacks, 8th in INTs and 12th in Fumbles Recovered. Again all those stats proves the point that we need a strong defense in order to win the Superbowl.

I am not disagreeing with you that Offense is our staple, it is what we do well, and so it should be with Shanny as our coach, however, I hope that the statistics that I provided for you show you how far we are from having that defense that is capable of getting us to the superbowl.

(Sorry, I forgot to add the 2007 Broncos defense... Points, 28th. Yards 19th. Rush Yards, 30th. INTs 23rd. Fumbles recovered 7th (ok that suprised me but then I remembered that we have Dumervil). Sacks 16th - so that is OK but not great. 3rd down percentage... 27th! We can't get of the field in order to get the great offense on it. There is no point having a great offense if you cannot use it!)

Cheers

BroncoKazuki
01-27-2008, 03:15 PM
Ok I do agree but I also dont agree. You have to remember I'm doing forecasting in the 2009 draft so far the RB's in that draft have not impressed me as much as those RB's that are in the 1st and mid 2nd rounds.




Now that brings us on to another of our paradigm wars; that you think the DTs in this draft (other than Ellis and Dorsey) are good for nothing but depth. With this, I could not disagree any more, Laws, Okam, Balmer, Sims, Bryant, Moore all look to have the tools to be very good defensive tackles in this league. I was particularily impressed with the play of Laws and Bryant at the Senior Bowl. I would be interested as to why you didn't think it was a very good draft in that regard?

This brings up what Ive been thinking

We can get a DT in round 2 not necisarily in round 1. I would like to pick up Moore or Laws who will be in the 2nd round and probably 3rd (if they are pushed into the 3rd by a surge of other players climbing)

I also think we need to pick up an O-linemen or two to groom.

Also in FA i would like us to pick up a good DT on a short term basis, giving us time in the next draft a DT next year.

In the draft I see us moving down, Grabbing a 3rd or maybe an extra 2nd.

The Dallas Trade would be risky, but its rewards would pay off I see it only happening if we go for Mendenhall who may land at 20 or go for the 15th or 17th and pick up an 3rd, then trade some players.