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lancane
02-05-2008, 05:46 PM
Some posters wanted me to show an updated mock with trades in place, TX...lol. As well as a few others, one which did not have us with thirty some odd picks, so I have been working on some ideas and recently with the reconstructioning of Travis Henry's contract and the other information available. So far this is what I have, some of you may be surprised...others will not be.

*Denver trades disgruntled wideout Javon Walker to Tampa Bay who they give mid round value to, Denver will also give them their original 7th round pick from the Jake Plummer debacle and in return Denver receives Tampa Bay's fourth round pick, 116th overall.*

*Needing a solid cornerback but maybe not wanting to overlook other needs, plus lacking a valuable starter at center, the Houston Texans trade their 79th overall pick in the third round for restricted free agent(s) offensive lineman Chris Myers and cornerback Dominique Foxworth. Denver will also receive a compensation pick in 2009 from Houston (Pending their status) in Houston.*

*Denver trades outside linebacker Ian Gold and running back Mike Bell to Green Bay for their fifth round pick, 156th overall. Bell will be looked to add depth to their running back stable and Ian Gold could give them a veteran starter to rotate in their linebacking corps.*

*Denver trades the 12th overall pick to Detroit for the 15th overall pick, in return Denver also receives the rights to defensive tackle Shaun Rogers which fills a huge need for their defensive front.*

*Wanting to move up to nab either a top defensive end or cornerback in the draft Philadelphia trades the 19th overall pick and 80th overall pick to Denver for the 15th overall pick.*

*Denver trade the 79th overall pick along with their 115th and 116th overall picks to Miami for the 57th overall pick in the second round.*

*Denver trades the 143rd overall pick and the 156th overall pick to New England for the 125th overall pick and 189th overall pick.*

Rnd 1 - 19th overall: Jeff Otah - Offensive Tackle - Pittsburgh
- Not your typical Bronco offensive lineman, but none the less one of the most highly touted tackles in the draft. A raw, mammoth tackle with tremendous upside, quick feet and good agility. Otah has an aggressive killer instinct that Denver lacks with their current offensive line and he would likely be an anchor to an offensive line which saw Cutler on his back far too many times for coaches to be at all pleased, on top of all that according to Pittsburgh coaches Otah was the unsung leader of their unit in 2007 and Denver also needs that with Nalen and Hamilton both likely gone in the near future.

Rnd 2 - 42nd overall: Earl Bennett - Wide Receiver - Vanderbilt
- Offense again? Yes, and I will tell you why...Shanahan said not but a month back he wants to give Cutler more weapons. After adding some protection for his franchise player with the first overall pick, Cutler's old friend gets nabbed a little early to secure him and add him to a receiving corps. that will not be considered the fastest in the league, but the most sured handed throughout the NFL. Stokely, Marshall, Stokley, Bennett and Graham gives Cutler an arsenal which would make even Peyton Manning crap his pants!

Rnd 2 - 57th overall: Jason Jones - Defensive End - Eastern Michigan
- Finally a defensive guy and a defensive end? Why not...with Ekuban likely not to return and Denver pulling a trade to get Shaun Rogers, the line has plenty of youth and all the talk of us drafting Merling has some credit. Jones is known to disrupt the field of play with his savvy knowledge of moves, though not at all great, he is still a solid addition. At 270lbs. he gives Slowik an end who is stout against the run and can be moved inside on passing downs and blitz packages. Jones's numbers may not impress fans but his ability to make plays will and he gives us ability for the front seven.

Continued -

lancane
02-05-2008, 05:47 PM
Rnd 3 - 80th overall: Tashard Choice - Tailback - Georgia Tech
- Choice raised some eyebrows with a solid Senior Bowl, but what he brings is your typical downhill running style with great poise, he is not over zealous to make things happen and thus will not do anything stupid. With a solid frame and balanced physical attributes Choice could be a solid second or third round pick, though he lacks great top speed his game speed is impressive as is his nack to find the gap and exploit it. And even though Henry re-worked his contract, no way will Shanahan enter the season with two highly injure proned backs that have saw more bench time in their careers then even most backups in the league. Give him by mid season and Choice may be carrying the load for Denver.

Rnd 4 - 104th overall: Jamar Adams - Strong Safety - Michigan
- With Denver likely given Abdullah a long-term contract according to Bill Williamson of the Denver Post, the team could be looking to re-sign John Ferguson to a minimal one year deal, especially if John Lynch retires. The issue for Denver is that Lynch was a true strong safety and Abdullah who showed flashes last year is a natural free safety. If Lynch does go look for Denver to start Ferguson at strong safety for the season, but Adams who is a mean and tough hitter would likely replace Ferguson the following season giving Denver some youth to their aging backfield between both Adams and Abdullah.

Rnd 4 - 125th overall: Jeremy Leman - Inside Linebacker - Illinois
- Denver missed out on top prospects by adding Jones in the second round, but Leman more then makes up for it. There is a reason why Ron Zook praises this kid and why he is considered the best linebacker in the past decade from the school; he is a tough SOB with a nose for the big play. He would have been a sure-fire third round pick, but he was slowed due to ankle surgery and recovery, the impressive part is that he played in pain for most of the season as he helped lead Illinois to the Rose Bowl, a natural athlete with great leadership abilities, Denver trades up to add him to their corps. he will get a chance to help special teams and learn this season, but with Denver usure about Williams future even on the team he brings valuable depth and a prospective replacement in the near future.

Rnd 5 - 132nd overall: Tyvon Branch - Defensive Back - Connecticut
- Branch could be this years steal for Denver, though Leman is more likely the steal for the Broncos in the long run. But Branch a former safety moved to cornerback is a hard hitting, sure tackler with good return ability. In essence a triple threat which Denver will likely look to add not only to boost special teams, but also give overall depth to the safety position and also the cornerback position.

Rnd 6 - 189th overall: Doug Legursky - Center - Marshall
- With Myers gone to Houston and Hamilton likely to be gone as well, Denver needs a replacement for Nalen when he retires likely after the season. Here enters Legursky a stout center who is bigger then any in recent Bronco memory at 6-3 and 311lbs. he was a solid starter for Marshall starting every game for Marshall during his college career and considered the rock foundation of their offensive line, more balanced then almost any center in the draft he would be a mainstay for the Broncos if he lives up to his potential.

Rnd 7 - 205th overall: Ken Debauche - P - Wisconsin
- Denver is one team who has been on the special teams merry go round since 2000 and one weak spot is punting, with problematic kickers coming and going…Denver will take the best available punter left and it is likely that Debauche who averaged in four seasons a good overall average of 42.5 yards per kick will come in to compete against whoever Denver decided to bring in to tryout for the position. It is not a sexy pick either because he is no Durant Brooks, but Denver has too many needs to go after someone too early in this draft for the position, and even if Debauche is not the answer he is a suitable replacement until Denver can get a solid punter.

**Now some will look at this draft and say I ignored too many needs that Denver has, but did I really? With so many defensive lineman receiving franchise tags, Shaun Rogers was a solid addition as was the addition of Jones who brings that lighter inside rushing ability but all around solid end to the front seven. Yes, I did ignore linebacker because we are likely to add one in free agency and Williams will likely have to start in the middle for the year, but Denver may not re-sign Williams when he becomes a free agent in 2010and if he brings similar numbers as he did last year he could be valuable trade bait for the 2009 off-season. Leman also could be the steal of the draft for Denver and next year Denver could go after a solid linebacker in the top of the draft for the outside. Between both Adams and Branch, along with Abdullah Denver should be able to finally put in place the quality safety corps. they have been hoping for, while Branch also gives a boost to the return game and gives depth at cornerback our strongest position. To top it all off we got a top punter to compete for the position, a anchoring tough offensive tackle, a solid prospect for the center position, a valuable wideout who could be a solid number two and a halfback for depth and who also could be a potential starter. All in all I would say the draft was solid...What do you think TX?**

:D

Gbt31
02-05-2008, 05:55 PM
I would be pretty content...

slick7
02-05-2008, 05:57 PM
Mendenhall in the first. I'm shocked 'Cane. If we could get Rogers and move down only 3 slots, I'd wet myself.

I think Walker for a 3rd is optimistic. I can tell you put some time and thought into this.

Nice work. :salute:

lancane
02-05-2008, 06:00 PM
Mendenhall in the first. I'm shocked 'Cane. If we could get Rogers and move down only 3 slots, I'd wet myself.

I think Walker for a 3rd is optimistic. I can tell you put some time and thought into this.

Nice work. :salute:

The only reason why he will likely get us a third is cause two of the teams who are supposedly interested (Buffalo and Minnesota) have dual picks in the third round, and if we needed a receiver and even a questionable one at that, I believe we would toss our extra third rounder for him if we had to...

;)

denver30
02-05-2008, 06:01 PM
Ok! I like this draft except for a few minor details. Of course, being a huge proponent of Stewart, I say Stewart over Mendenhall, that is a given.

Bruce Davis is an outside linebacker and we have more of a need for an inside linebacker. Thus I would have Jared Mayo in the second round and Eddie Royal in the third.

I love Jamar Adams in the fourth but Jason Jones makes me scratch my head. I don't think its a good pick because we have Dumerville, Moss, Ekuban, Crowder, and Engleburger. I don't think we should trade Foxworth and this would leave us with one less fourth rounder. No Jones give us Hayden instead.


Murphy is a good pick but Branch is not needed with Royal returning punts. I would rather have Dizon instead.

And we have four TE's! We do not need an extra one. Personally I would trade both seventh rounders for a sixth rounder and take Make Dragosavich, who had a 68 yard punt in the senior bowl.

Besides that, I like the draft!;)

lancane
02-05-2008, 06:07 PM
Ok! I like this draft except for a few minor details. Of course, being a huge proponent of Stewart, I say Stewart over Mendenhall, that is a given.

Bruce Davis is an outside linebacker and we have more of a need for an inside linebacker. Thus I would have Jared Mayo in the second round and Eddie Royal in the third.

I love Jamar Adams in the fourth but Jason Jones makes me scratch my head. I don't think its a good pick because we have Dumerville, Moss, Ekuban, Crowder, and Engleburger. I don't think we should trade Foxworth and this would leave us with one less fourth rounder. No Jones give us Hayden instead.


Murphy is a good pick but Branch is not needed with Royal returning punts. I would rather have Dizon instead.

And we have four TE's! We do not need an extra one. Personally I would trade both seventh rounders for a sixth rounder and take Make Dragosavich, who had a 68 yard punt in the senior bowl.

Besides that, I like the draft!;)

First off ESPN and Sporting News have Mendenhall above Stewart, who is no longer on their top 20 lists. Mendenhall is climbing, but I know you love the guy. Secondly, Mayo is a good pick...but Williams had pro bowl numbers at middle linebacker and we need competition besides Gold and Winborn on the outside, Webster himself was originally a mike backup to Al Wilson! Jason Jones brings depth at the end position and we need that, Crowder and Moss still have a lot to prove and you never have too much depth at the end position. And we have two quality tight ends, the others are not near the blockers of Graham and that is why I made that pick...what if Graham goes down again? And is Royal going to help the cornerback and safety depth? No...Branch can and that is why he gets the nod over Royal.

:cheers:

Bowie Man
02-05-2008, 06:10 PM
It's pretty good, the only pick I don't like is the DE. I also would like to get Royal and Dizon.:salute:

broncobuss
02-05-2008, 06:12 PM
the only thing that I see is I dont think we will be able to trade javon until tranning camp at the earliest due to he wont be recovered until then and teams are not going to trade for damaged goods( see al wilson ) but not bad,

isnt bennent suposed to go no higher than a 3rd?,

oh and where is Kevin Smith?:D

but yea a good mock anyway

slick7
02-05-2008, 06:17 PM
The only reason why he will likely get us a third is cause two of the teams who are supposedly interested (Buffalo and Minnesota) have dual picks in the third round, and if we needed a receiver and even a questionable one at that, I believe we would toss our extra third rounder for him if we had to...

;)

If either one of those teams don't sign a FA WR, I could see it. I didn't realize they both had extra 3rds. You really did your homework on this one. Nice job.

ShadeofBlue
02-05-2008, 06:18 PM
Pretty good draft for me. I think that our D is what we need to address the most, but I realize that if we don't trade down a good bit in the first the best value will be at RB. I agree T. Hen will stay, but we need a guy who is both a good runner and not injury prone/ fragile to carry the load if Henry has issues again. Seems like the latter picks are focusing on D which I like, and DT is supposed to be strong next year, no?

I do like Bennett for our team. To me I feel like I did with Weddle last year. Really want the guy -- not only for his skills and history with Jay but mostly because he wants to come here. And for a team thats struggling a skilled person who really desires to be here is huge.


The only real thing I would want that I didn't see addressed is FB. Bell is gone unless he makes a miracle in Shanny's doghouse, and Sapp is okay and may be good as a power RB, but not really a lane opener or great blocker at FB. Since we were totally unable to move the opposing D line or run up the middle, a good FB is a dire need, IMO. Also make good ST players. I'd like a Schmidtt (or best left if someone reaches for him early) instead of 115th overall pick Jason Jones. IMO with all the DE's we brought in to play DT/DE and guys getting healthy, we have pretty good depth there and rotation.

Still, liked it overall and am getting into drafts more as the SB is over and the long doldrums until draft and camp begins. Will be interested to see how it develops after the combine.

BroncosTX77
02-05-2008, 06:23 PM
Too many picks. Other than that.......





:salute:

lancane
02-05-2008, 06:24 PM
the only thing that I see is I dont think we will be able to trade javon until tranning camp at the earliest due to he wont be recovered until then and teams are not going to trade for damaged goods( see al wilson ) but not bad,

isnt bennent suposed to go no higher than a 3rd?,

oh and where is Kevin Smith?:D

but yea a good mock anyway

First off Javon is not medically restricted, he might need microfracture surgery in a year to three years. He was already cleared by our Medical Staff, or he would not have played against Minnesota **Remember Al Wilson was failed a medical examination or he would have been traded**. And Bennet is a second round graded receiver, he could be pushed into the third if some receivers drop, but I do not believe they will and I think he will be the second to third receiver taken in the second round. And Smith...if we did not get Mendenhall I would take Choice over Smith!

:cheers:

lancane
02-05-2008, 06:26 PM
Too many picks. Other than that.......





:salute:

How in the hell is ten picks for a team that has as many holes as us too many?

:confused:

Oh well...:cheers:

BroncoKazuki
02-05-2008, 06:40 PM
If either one of those teams don't sign a FA WR, I could see it. I didn't realize they both had extra 3rds. You really did your homework on this one. Nice job.

I think I told you this Slick


but those teams will try to find a Moss/TO type WR without breaking the Bank.

If they can Get javon for a 3rd they see it as a steal.

I'd bet that CJ would garner a 2nd round pick.
Moss may go back to NE for less because he wants his ring and he knows no one out there will pay him the cash for his attitude. He fits NE's arrogant nature far better then other teams.

TO is with Dallas.


So Minn may love to get Javon and so Will Buff.

A 3rd round to bring a show boating WR that is in that same league as the high price WR's i said.. I can see it happening.


Also Lancane.........

God Damn I would be shocked if something like this or similar to this happens.

Max Power
02-05-2008, 06:44 PM
The first two picks are fine, but I'm really not liking not addressing DT until round 4. I don't like Nick Hayden much either, he really is not starting material at the next level. If Frank Okam is still available there, he would be my choice. But still, I think DT has to be addressed in round 2 at the latest.

BroncosTX77
02-05-2008, 06:45 PM
quality > quantity

FA's and team philosophy will cancel some of those picks.

Those trades are possible, but you gather those extra mid-late rounders to package em to move up not use.


:salute:

MindField
02-05-2008, 06:45 PM
I do not understand the facination with fat, lazy, underachieving, injury-prone DT's, which is exactly what Shaun Rogers is. That is why he was Drafted in the second round in the first place. He and Kris Jenkins, for all of their hype, have not been consistent enough, have not stayed healthy, and have at times been simply obese, which is what their scouting profiles said about them. NFL teams just don't give away great DT's, which as we all know, are hard to come by in the first place. If Rogers is so valuable, why would the Lions give him away?

Part II of my opposition to this trade is that Rogers does not fit Slowick's scheme, which is more about quicker, penetrating types at DT. We have commited to Marcus Thomas, who basically is re-learning how to play football again, and he is going to go through some growing pains....but he and McKinley actually had their moments where they played pretty well down the stretch.

The bottom line for the Defense is, it will have to be rebuilt, piece by piece, and with patience. There is no magic formula, and taking someone else's castoffs isn't going to help anything along any more quickly.

Besides, our LB's are worse. That's where we need the influx of talent most.


As far as the rest of the Draft, Mendenhall is an obvious choice for you...we'll see how he grades out at the Combine against Jonathan Stewart....alot of the other players listed I have never heard of, so I can't comment, although I am NOT a fan of Jamar Adams.

MindField
02-05-2008, 06:50 PM
BTW, shouldn't Mendenhall be wearing #25 on your jersey? Nick Ferguson is not likely to be back...

lancane
02-05-2008, 06:53 PM
quality > quantity

FA's and team philosophy will cancel some of those picks.

Those trades are possible, but you gather those extra mid-late rounders to package em to move up not use.


:salute:

That is very possible, and I would not be surprised if that did happen...but I was generating a basic draft with only two very logical trades in place! If you wanted I could really work the whole thing around to get higher picks in a lot of places, but too many moves are considered unrealistic. So I am sure you can understand I kept it very basic, or for the most part!

;)

slick7
02-05-2008, 06:56 PM
I think I told you this Slick


but those teams will try to find a Moss/TO type WR without breaking the Bank.

If they can Get javon for a 3rd they see it as a steal.

I'd bet that CJ would garner a 2nd round pick.
Moss may go back to NE for less because he wants his ring and he knows no one out there will pay him the cash for his attitude. He fits NE's arrogant nature far better then other teams.

TO is with Dallas.


So Minn may love to get Javon and so Will Buff.

A 3rd round to bring a show boating WR that is in that same league as the high price WR's i said.. I can see it happening.


Also Lancane.........

God Damn I would be shocked if something like this or similar to this happens.

Yea you did bro, and if I were either of those teams, I'd rather go after Berrian or Johnson or Clayton or even DJ Hackett. But your and 'Cane's point still has validity, it just wouldn't be what I would do. :salute:

EDIT: for the record, I'm not fascinated with Rogers or Jenkins, but either one of them could start right away, and if that could happen by sliding down 3 slots in the first, I wouldn't complain. Wetting myself was a little bit of an overstatement.

lancane
02-05-2008, 06:58 PM
I do not understand the facination with fat, lazy, underachieving, injury-prone DT's, which is exactly what Shaun Rogers is. That is why he was Drafted in the second round in the first place. He and Kris Jenkins, for all of their hype, have not been consistent enough, have not stayed healthy, and have at times been simply obese, which is what their scouting profiles said about them. NFL teams just don't give away great DT's, which as we all know, are hard to come by in the first place. If Rogers is so valuable, why would the Lions give him away?

Part II of my opposition to this trade is that Rogers does not fit Slowick's scheme, which is more about quicker, penetrating types at DT. We have commited to Marcus Thomas, who basically is re-learning how to play football again, and he is going to go through some growing pains....but he and McKinley actually had their moments where they played pretty well down the stretch.

The bottom line for the Defense is, it will have to be rebuilt, piece by piece, and with patience. There is no magic formula, and taking someone else's castoffs isn't going to help anything along any more quickly.

Besides, our LB's are worse. That's where we need the influx of talent most.


As far as the rest of the Draft, Mendenhall is an obvious choice for you...we'll see how he grades out at the Combine against Jonathan Stewart....alot of the other players listed I have never heard of, so I can't comment, although I am NOT a fan of Jamar Adams.

Rogers is fat and lazy...but he also was all out better then every tackle we had this season, his fat butt had seven sacks...which one of our not so fat tackles had that many? I understand you do not like him, but Shanahan will understand that he can not fill every hole with the draft alone. I do expect some free agents to be signed...but till that happens we can only guess which way he will go.

As far as Mendenhall ESPN just released their top 30 prospects, Mendenhall was 20 and Stewy dropped to 22. I agree that is not solid, but it is enough to show that Mendenhall may end up changing the look of the draft boards come the combine.

lancane
02-05-2008, 07:00 PM
The first two picks are fine, but I'm really not liking not addressing DT until round 4. I don't like Nick Hayden much either, he really is not starting material at the next level. If Frank Okam is still available there, he would be my choice. But still, I think DT has to be addressed in round 2 at the latest.

And that is very possible, remember this is just one scenario...maybe Denver trades down for an extra pick instead of Rogers and eventually has two second round picks, it is feesable and I would not be surprised if we took Moore or Laws even. But I tried to keep this somewhat simple as I told TX and fill as many holes as I could all the way around.

;)

The Dyna$ty
02-05-2008, 07:01 PM
Great Mock Lancane I would be pretty content with that whole draft. personally I would like Eddie Royal especially for his extra threat to return kicks and punts over Earl Bennett but I can't really complain.

You know personally i'd rather have Stewart at 15 but I don't think he'd be there at 15 for us after he has an outstanding combine which I think he will I wouldn't cry if we drafted Mendenhall hes only a small step down to what Stewart is, either way both would flourish and become Franchise backs for us.

BroncosTX77
02-05-2008, 07:04 PM
That is very possible, and I would not be surprised if that did happen...but I was generating a basic draft with only two very logical trades in place! If you wanted I could really work the whole thing around to get higher picks in a lot of places, but too many moves are considered unrealistic. So I am sure you can understand I kept it very basic, or for the most part!

;)

Me want. Me want.

Depends though on the moves. Many trades happen on draft day. Also realistic possibility that The Javon and Foxy will be dealt for draft picks too.

lancane
02-05-2008, 07:10 PM
Me want. Me want.

Depends though on the moves. Many trades happen on draft day. Also realistic possibility that The Javon and Foxy will be dealt for draft picks too.

It is, as I had on the top of my draft, and Miami, Atlanta, Minnesota, Dallas and Buffalo have multiple picks between the first and third rounds. So anything could happen...I will work on it for you TX and post that version on here later!

;)

beastlyskronk
02-05-2008, 07:26 PM
Trades - Denver trades the 12th overall pick to Detroit for Shaun Rogers and the 15th overall pick, giving Detroit the equivalent of a 3rd round draft pick for Rogers. Denver trades Javon Walker to Buffalo for the 72nd overall pick in the 3rd round. Tennessee gives Denver the 120th overall pick in the 4th round for cornerback Dominique Foxworth.

Draft -

Round One (15th overall pick): Rashard Mendenhall - HB - Illinois
- Mendenhall is climbing the boards, his last timed forty was a 4.43 and if he matches that at the combine there is no doubt in my mind he overtakes Stewart on many team’s boards to become the second back taken in the draft. A perfect combination of speed and power Mendenhall exploded onto the scene with a terrific junior campaign in which he led Illinois all the way to the Rose Bowl. A lot of Denver fan’s will be upset because Henry will still be under contract, but Shanahan is likely to keep Henry at a lesser price and let Mendenhall ease into the starting role as he did with all his other backs. Mendenhall will be a huge contributor to special teams however and will make an immediate impact for the Broncos.

Round Two (44th overall pick): Earl Bennett - WR - Vanderbilt
- At this point fans in Denver will be split, half ready to riot and the other half jumping for joy. While I agree Denver’s defense is a weakness, some fans forget that Denver’s long time dominance is from the offensive side of the ball and not defensive side of the ball. Denver could wait till the third round, but I believe Bennett at that time will no longer be available, with at least three wideouts going in the first round, if not four. The second round graded receivers such as Thomas, Bowman, Manningham and Bennett will all be good picks, but Cutler has been an advocate for Bennett who is a close friend and if his relationship with tight end Tony Scheffler or wideout Brandon Marshall are of any consideration then Shanahan will grab Bennett with this pick.

**Denver fans may not be too happy with day one of the draft, but the addition of Shaun Rogers is a big boost for the front seven of the defense and if he plays up to his potential then he is easily worth a second round pick and Denver again got a steal of a trade. While Mendenhall is a great halfback in Denver he will likely be second on the depth charts for the season returning kickoffs and learning behind Henry and sharing time with Young, and overall giving Denver one of the deepest running back stables in all of the NFL. Now add in wideout Earl Bennett with Brandon Marshall, Tony Scheffler, Brandon Stokely, Daniel Graham, along with Rashard Mendenhall, Travis Henry, Selvin Young and Jay Cutler…Denver fans should be excited, because there offense should scare the hell out of even the likes of Indianapolis and New England.**

Round Three (72nd overall pick): Bruce Davis - LB - UCLA
- Denver fans will say who? But truth is that Davis is really a great athlete and a terrific addition to a depleted linebacker corps. which has lost a step over the past two seasons. The question will be well why him? And the answer is simple he is a 6-3, 237lbs product with terrific bloodlines and pedigree. Davis is quick and not overly fast, but he knows how to rush off the edge and get to the ball. In 2006 Davis has a astonishing 12.5 sacks and three forced fumbles. Considered a tweener, but his upside and attributes should impress Denver enough to bring him in with their third pick.

Continued -

Isn't Earl Bennet projected in the 3rd round or has he rose to the 2nd already?

BroncoKazuki
02-05-2008, 07:32 PM
Isn't Earl Bennet projected in the 3rd round or has he rose to the 2nd already?

he's a borderline 2-3rd who can quite possibly shoot up to 2nd. I also think he's a must get because other teams will be looking to grab him first to take away any productivity and connection He'll have with Jay.

"take any advantage away from your foe and they will fall" kind of terminology. SO I think Bennett will be a pick that others my grab out of spite to rile up Shanahan.

beastlyskronk
02-05-2008, 07:43 PM
he's a borderline 2-3rd who can quite possibly shoot up to 2nd. I also think he's a must get because other teams will be looking to grab him first to take away any productivity and connection He'll have with Jay.

"take any advantage away from your foe and they will fall" kind of terminology. SO I think Bennett will be a pick that others my grab out of spite to rile up Shanahan.

Is DaJuan Morgan a third or a second? This will tie together.

BroncoKazuki
02-05-2008, 07:47 PM
Is DaJuan Morgan a third or a second? This will tie together.

is that the right name?

theres no prospect on the 2008 Draft Scout I did a search. so heres the list so far on NFL Draft Scout

1-2nd round WR
Early Doucet LSU
Limas Sweed Texas

2nd round WR
Andre Caldwell Florida
Mario Manningham Michigan
Devin Thomas Michigan St.

2-3rd round WR
Donnie Avery Houstion
Eaerl Bennett Vanderbilt


3rd roudn WR
Eddie Royal VT
Lavelle Hawkins Cal.

beastlyskronk
02-05-2008, 07:56 PM
is that the right name?

theres no prospect on the 2008 Draft Scout I did a search. so heres the list so far on NFL Draft Scout

1-2nd round WR
Early Doucet LSU
Limas Sweed Texas

2nd round WR
Andre Caldwell Florida
Mario Manningham Michigan
Devin Thomas Michigan St.

2-3rd round WR
Donnie Avery Houstion
Eaerl Bennett Vanderbilt


3rd roudn WR
Eddie Royal VT
Lavelle Hawkins Cal.

He plays safety.

BroncosTX77
02-05-2008, 07:58 PM
It is, as I had on the top of my draft, and Miami, Atlanta, Minnesota, Dallas and Buffalo have multiple picks between the first and third rounds. So anything could happen...I will work on it for you TX and post that version on here later!

;)

Here is a twist to think about I'll leave the details for you.

Trades

Minnesota
Washington


I've got all my stuff hammered out, but I am going to wait for after the combines to finalize it :)

BroncoKazuki
02-05-2008, 08:14 PM
He plays safety.

you forgot to tell me that

and Dajuan Morgan FS from N.C. State is rated at 4th round pick at the moment

beastlyskronk
02-05-2008, 08:23 PM
Then how about Anthony Collins in the 2nd, Lavelle Hawkins in the 3rd, Titus Brown in the 4th instead of Jones, and maybe DaJuan Morgan instead of Jamar Adams but it's really either way depending on if you like a fast safety or a hard hitter.

I do like the Bruce Davis pick but I think Titus Brown is pretty much the same player with more strength. He's 236 pounds I think and he played DE for MSU last year but he is fast enough to play linebacker. A real tweener. That's what I would do if any of my mocks had Mendenhall being taken in the first which they don't. I'm just saying.

Other wise it's a pretty good draft that addresses key needs.

BroncoKazuki
02-05-2008, 08:29 PM
Then how about Anthony Collins in the 2nd, Lavelle Hawkins in the 3rd, Titus Brown in the 4th instead of Jones, and maybe DaJuan Morgan instead of Jamar Adams but it's really either way depending on if you like a fast safety or a hard hitter.

I do like the Bruce Davis pick but I think Titus Brown is pretty much the same player with more strength. He's 236 pounds I think and he played DE for MSU last year but he is fast enough to play linebacker. A real tweener. That's what I would do if any of my mocks had Mendenhall being taken in the first which they don't. I'm just saying.

Other wise it's a pretty good draft that addresses key needs.



here lol http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ better yet to share knowledge then to hog it all.

gyldenlove
02-05-2008, 08:38 PM
First off, good work, some in depth analysis which makes it easier to comment.

Instead of shipping off Walker for a pick in the 3rd, I would love to talk to Dallas and see if they want to split with Marcus Spears straight up. If the rumors are true that they are shopping him we should make a play. He hasn't settled in to playing DE in a 3-4 front, his size is perfect for a 1-gap DT in our scheme.

The Shaun Rogers trade is interesting, he is a big body but can penetrate. His tendency to fade as the season goes on has me worried, but I would talk to the chance if he came cheap enough.

I am not a fan of Mendenhall, I think we should go LB in the 1st if at all possible. We have some huge holes to fill there. The way I see it, Gold is gone. Webster was not a humiliation, but clearly isn't suited to the outside. DJ has another year to show he can dominate in the middle, and don't regurgitate all his tackles to me, tackles are an empty stat that means nothing. I hope we can plug at least one of the OLB positions with an in house candidate, Beck or Winborn, but I think we do need to upgrade the position.

I love Bennett in the 2nd, he has insta-chemistry with Cutler and brings some nice intangibles to the team. He seems be quite like Marshall, very strong with the ball and a solid possession guy.

Bruce Davis doesn't have me jumping with joy. He seems like a prospect more than a ready to play contributor.

I like the 2nd day, although round 3 is now in the 2nd day as well as I remember.

beastlyskronk
02-05-2008, 08:43 PM
here lol http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ better yet to share knowledge then to hog it all.

I thought the site was under construction. Every time I try to get on it that is what it tells me. I can only access it from other parts of the site that I have in my recent history.

BroncoKazuki
02-05-2008, 08:55 PM
First off, good work, some in depth analysis which makes it easier to comment.

Instead of shipping off Walker for a pick in the 3rd, I would love to talk to Dallas and see if they want to split with Marcus Spears straight up. If the rumors are true that they are shopping him we should make a play. He hasn't settled in to playing DE in a 3-4 front, his size is perfect for a 1-gap DT in our scheme.

The Shaun Rogers trade is interesting, he is a big body but can penetrate. His tendency to fade as the season goes on has me worried, but I would talk to the chance if he came cheap enough.

I am not a fan of Mendenhall, I think we should go LB in the 1st if at all possible. We have some huge holes to fill there. The way I see it, Gold is gone. Webster was not a humiliation, but clearly isn't suited to the outside. DJ has another year to show he can dominate in the middle, and don't regurgitate all his tackles to me, tackles are an empty stat that means nothing. I hope we can plug at least one of the OLB positions with an in house candidate, Beck or Winborn, but I think we do need to upgrade the position.

I love Bennett in the 2nd, he has insta-chemistry with Cutler and brings some nice intangibles to the team. He seems be quite like Marshall, very strong with the ball and a solid possession guy.

Bruce Davis doesn't have me jumping with joy. He seems like a prospect more than a ready to play contributor.

I like the 2nd day, although round 3 is now in the 2nd day as well as I remember.

Out of all this only 1 Offensive tool for Cutler...

look if we go to heavy with defense the offense wont get anywhere. Henry will come back but it will also be at a cheaper price and be splitting carries with our Franchise Back.


So in retrospect taking a Franchise back early would be a plus no matter how much we need a LB as we can get a good quality LB in the 4th and better quality next year.

and Rodgers is more of a short term fix for the season, i dont see him being here more then a couple of years.

broncobuss
02-06-2008, 12:14 AM
First off Javon is not medically restricted, he might need microfracture surgery in a year to three years. He was already cleared by our Medical Staff, or he would not have played against Minnesota **Remember Al Wilson was failed a medical examination or he would have been traded**. And Bennet is a second round graded receiver, he could be pushed into the third if some receivers drop, but I do not believe they will and I think he will be the second to third receiver taken in the second round. And Smith...if we did not get Mendenhall I would take Choice over Smith!

:cheers:

thats what im saying, I dont think he is going to pass anyones physical. he was cleared to play but his knee was swelling up after preatty much every game, its going to take the whole offseason of rehab and rest to get back to normal if at all, so no team is going to give up a 3rd round pick for a guy who has medical concerns, remember Al passed our physical last year before the attempted trade and then failed the giants, and I still would rather keep Javon and see if his knee gets fully healthy. a healthy Javon is better than any WR that we could get in the draft, and if you would take Choice over Smith, you would be wrong.

lancane
02-06-2008, 01:28 AM
thats what im saying, I dont think he is going to pass anyones physical. he was cleared to play but his knee was swelling up after preatty much every game, its going to take the whole offseason of rehab and rest to get back to normal if at all, so no team is going to give up a 3rd round pick for a guy who has medical concerns, remember Al passed our physical last year before the attempted trade and then failed the giants, and I still would rather keep Javon and see if his knee gets fully healthy. a healthy Javon is better than any WR that we could get in the draft, and if you would take Choice over Smith, you would be wrong.

What do you do for a living? Seriously...because you keep telling people they are wrong or that they do not know...and unless you are a pro scout, a college level ball player, a collegiate coach or a pro in some form, you do not know diddly about whether or not Choice or Smith is better, you may believe something to that effect...but that is an opinion only. And as far as Walker goes, it is real simple, he does not want to be here and even if he does there is no guarantees and I will bet you any amount we still bring in a receiver or two, becuase Shanahan will not risk it, no intelligent coach would. Also the fact he is unwilling to restructure becomes a bigger issue and that will be his downfall because he does not deserve top dollar to float on the bench, and if he could play he only becomes a distraction with not wanting to be here. Sorry, I just do not see him wanting to stay or willing to take a cut in pay therefor he is history.

;)

axx
02-06-2008, 03:14 AM
Trades - Denver trades the 12th overall pick to Detroit for Shaun Rogers and the 15th overall pick, giving Detroit the equivalent of a 3rd round draft pick for Rogers. Denver trades Javon Walker to Buffalo for the 72nd overall pick in the 3rd round. Tennessee gives Denver the 120th overall pick in the 4th round for cornerback Dominique Foxworth.

Draft -

Round One (15th overall pick): Rashard Mendenhall - HB - Illinois
- Mendenhall is climbing the boards, his last timed forty was a 4.43 and if he matches that at the combine there is no doubt in my mind he overtakes Stewart on many team’s boards to become the second back taken in the draft. A perfect combination of speed and power Mendenhall exploded onto the scene with a terrific junior campaign in which he led Illinois all the way to the Rose Bowl. A lot of Denver fan’s will be upset because Henry will still be under contract, but Shanahan is likely to keep Henry at a lesser price and let Mendenhall ease into the starting role as he did with all his other backs. Mendenhall will be a huge contributor to special teams however and will make an immediate impact for the Broncos.

Round Two (44th overall pick): Earl Bennett - WR - Vanderbilt
- At this point fans in Denver will be split, half ready to riot and the other half jumping for joy. While I agree Denver’s defense is a weakness, some fans forget that Denver’s long time dominance is from the offensive side of the ball and not defensive side of the ball. Denver could wait till the third round, but I believe Bennett at that time will no longer be available, with at least three wideouts going in the first round, if not four. The second round graded receivers such as Thomas, Bowman, Manningham and Bennett will all be good picks, but Cutler has been an advocate for Bennett who is a close friend and if his relationship with tight end Tony Scheffler or wideout Brandon Marshall are of any consideration then Shanahan will grab Bennett with this pick.

**Denver fans may not be too happy with day one of the draft, but the addition of Shaun Rogers is a big boost for the front seven of the defense and if he plays up to his potential then he is easily worth a second round pick and Denver again got a steal of a trade. While Mendenhall is a great halfback in Denver he will likely be second on the depth charts for the season returning kickoffs and learning behind Henry and sharing time with Young, and overall giving Denver one of the deepest running back stables in all of the NFL. Now add in wideout Earl Bennett with Brandon Marshall, Tony Scheffler, Brandon Stokely, Daniel Graham, along with Rashard Mendenhall, Travis Henry, Selvin Young and Jay Cutler…Denver fans should be excited, because there offense should scare the hell out of even the likes of Indianapolis and New England.**

Round Three (72nd overall pick): Bruce Davis - LB - UCLA
- Denver fans will say who? But truth is that Davis is really a great athlete and a terrific addition to a depleted linebacker corps. which has lost a step over the past two seasons. The question will be well why him? And the answer is simple he is a 6-3, 237lbs product with terrific bloodlines and pedigree. Davis is quick and not overly fast, but he knows how to rush off the edge and get to the ball. In 2006 Davis has a astonishing 12.5 sacks and three forced fumbles. Considered a tweener, but his upside and attributes should impress Denver enough to bring him in with their third pick.

Continued -


if this happened i'd be very happy. The only change i'd make and its personal preference is change David 3rd Round to Safety or pick Tavares Gooden 3rd of 4th.

Broncosinindy
02-06-2008, 06:34 AM
The first two picks are fine, but I'm really not liking not addressing DT until round 4. I don't like Nick Hayden much either, he really is not starting material at the next level. If Frank Okam is still available there, he would be my choice. But still, I think DT has to be addressed in round 2 at the latest.

Add to the fact that he is considered "not very coachable" and really is subpar. i woulndt add him. i would rather take a flyer on another guy.

BroncoRT
02-06-2008, 06:45 AM
Good draft. I am still wondering about first round RB's and if Shanny will grab one.

If Shanny is able to grab a third rounder, I think he will grab either Peyton Hillis or Jacob Hester. These two fullbacks will do great in Denver. :rockon:

hardcorebronco
02-06-2008, 06:50 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong...

But isn't Earl Bennet just another big physical wide receiver... That's good and all but typically teams get one burner and one big guy.

Harrison - Fast
Wayne - Physical / Possession.

Welker / Stallworth - Fast
Moss - Physical

Chad Johnson - Physical
T.J. Houshyourmama - Fast

Larry Fitz - Fast
Boldin - Physical


Those are just a few of the tandems that come to mind... See a pattern? I know that Marshall is trying to work on his deep route skills, but he is that physical guy, and if Bennett is taken, then who stretches the field? Stokely? :confused:


I like Earl Bennett a lot, don't get me wrong. But I was pretty sure he isn't the guy we need lining up at #1 or #2 across from Marshall. :salute:

KWHIT97
02-06-2008, 07:01 AM
I can see it now, for the first time in like 10 years I am not totally ripping my hair out because Mike Shanahan finally does what I want him to do.

Overrall I like this off-season and think we would have quite a few keepers in the draft, not guys that we draft and are on the P.S. for 2 years and we cut em', something different eeh.

I still like Stewart a little more than Mendenhall, but would be happy with either, I also wouldn't mind Felix Jones!!!!!!

kratos_godofwar
02-06-2008, 07:43 AM
I would wet myself if the draft happened like this. Going offense heavy on the first day would be great for our future. Jay needs more threats with him and I like Earl Bennett. We're giving Jay someone he's familar with. I like everything about this draft, because it's giving us great players and great ST's. Kenneth Debauche is one of my the favorite Punters coming out of this draft.

This draft would also set us up for an even better draft next year where there will be more playmaking defensive players. There's a few players I disagree with, but if it the first day was like this. Who can complain.

Also, I was thinking the same thing about Walker. He's going to be valued more than a 4th because of what Randy Moss did last year. Denver won't give him up for a 4th unless that was all they can get come draft day. I just don't think Denver will tag/trade Foxworth for a 4th, Shanny likes Foxworth as a depth player. So I think he will be tagged as a 3rd or 2nd to see if any team will bite the bullet for him.

I like the 1st round swap and also aquring Shaun Rogers. If the Denver coaches can get him to commit to getting into better shape. Then we could have one of the best D-Line in the AFC.

broncobuss
02-06-2008, 09:10 AM
What do you do for a living? Seriously...because you keep telling people they are wrong or that they do not know...and unless you are a pro scout, a college level ball player, a collegiate coach or a pro in some form, you do not know diddly about whether or not Choice or Smith is better, you may believe something to that effect...but that is an opinion only. And as far as Walker goes, it is real simple, he does not want to be here and even if he does there is no guarantees and I will bet you any amount we still bring in a receiver or two, becuase Shanahan will not risk it, no intelligent coach would. Also the fact he is unwilling to restructure becomes a bigger issue and that will be his downfall because he does not deserve top dollar to float on the bench, and if he could play he only becomes a distraction with not wanting to be here. Sorry, I just do not see him wanting to stay or willing to take a cut in pay therefor he is history.

;)



Relax, the smith over choice comment was a joke, I just forgot to put one of those smiley faces after it, so relax. Plus ive never told any one they are dead wrong I dont think, and just because you are not a pro scout does not mean you dont know diddy about anything, there are alot of people on these boards that know quite a bit about football and can see talent, I myself do not know everything and am wrong alot when judging guys comming out of collage, but Iam right sometimes also, and like alot of people on these here boards have been playing and watching football our whole lives and enjoy debating who our team needs to pick and what they need to do to get better and look at it as that, just entertainment for fun, some of you all take some things way to siriously (I didnt think you did but maybe I was wrong on that too) I know quite abit about the broncos, im not a fan thats been around only a few years, ive followed football religiously since I was a kid in the late 70s so I know quite a bit, and like a bunch of us played football all the way through high school. Yea I didnt play collage like you but come on, that does not make you any more of an expert than any of us. sorry didnt mean to rant and look, I enjoy reading your post along with alot of other peoples because you have an opinion and most of the time your opinion is alot better than mine and you back up your info and you reserch it well and I respect that, I wish I had more time to reserch guys in collage like you do, but what I do for a "living" i dont have as much time to do this, thats why I try to go on here to see what other bronco fans are thinking because we all want to have the best team. but I too have an opinion and I have players that I would like to see the broncos get. So if you cant handle a little critisism once in a while then dont post any comments, just read them, hopfully you keep posting though, just know I am not going to agree with everything you say and realize that I will state my opinion and really do not mean any thing personal.

Oh yea:D

gyldenlove
02-06-2008, 09:57 AM
Out of all this only 1 Offensive tool for Cutler...

look if we go to heavy with defense the offense wont get anywhere. Henry will come back but it will also be at a cheaper price and be splitting carries with our Franchise Back.


So in retrospect taking a Franchise back early would be a plus no matter how much we need a LB as we can get a good quality LB in the 4th and better quality next year.

and Rodgers is more of a short term fix for the season, i dont see him being here more then a couple of years.

Go ask the Cardinals what happens when you draft offensive skills players year after year, or the Rams, or the Lions. Fact is, a good team need a good defense. Right now our offense is pretty good. Our defense stinks. We will not win more than 7 games next year if we don't upgrade our defense.

The only difference will be, we will lose most of our games 28-41 instead of 17-21.

Do you really want to turn this team into a loser team that will never make it to the playoffs again? Because the playoffs are for good defensive teams. Look at the teams who made it this year, the Giants, have Ahmad Bradshaw and Brandon Jacobs, the Packers have Ryan Grant. Heck, the Patriots went 18-0 with a mixture of Kevin Faulk, Sammy Morris and Maroney (who was injured half the season). They won because they had good D, that is what we need.

kratos_godofwar
02-06-2008, 10:09 AM
Go ask the Cardinals what happens when you draft offensive skills players year after year, or the Rams, or the Lions. Fact is, a good team need a good defense. Right now our offense is pretty good. Our defense stinks. We will not win more than 7 games next year if we don't upgrade our defense.

The only difference will be, we will lose most of our games 28-41 instead of 17-21.

Do you really want to turn this team into a loser team that will never make it to the playoffs again? Because the playoffs are for good defensive teams. Look at the teams who made it this year, the Giants, have Ahmad Bradshaw and Brandon Jacobs, the Packers have Ryan Grant. Heck, the Patriots went 18-0 with a mixture of Kevin Faulk, Sammy Morris and Maroney (who was injured half the season). They won because they had good D, that is what we need.
Yeah, but we are not the Cardinals, Lions, or Rams. We are the Denver Broncos and we actually have a QB. We actually have a coach who can maximize the talent. We have a good defense, we only need a few players to make it more solid. It was Shannahan's fault the Defense was so bad last year. He went and got an aggreisve type coach but threw it out the window because he got scared. We are now going back to what we know, so our defense just got that much better.

Dream
02-06-2008, 11:05 AM
I like the draft besides Davis' pick in the third round. I feel that there will be much better talent available at that selection at a whole ton of other positions. I'd also address OT a little higher. I have never seen that tight end play, but I doubt we'd even use a pick on one; unless he can play special teams.

Overall, I really enjoy it - don't know some of those players, but it's the first two guys that sell me.

As much as people would like to see defense, I think that offense back to back is a real legit chance.

broncofansd
02-06-2008, 11:28 AM
That is possibly the WORST MOCK DRAFT I HAVE EVER SEEN.

Shaun Rogers = Big Fat DT with BAD KNEES.

We Don't need a RB in the 1st.

Bennett is late 2nd or early 3rd WR.

Your picks are horrible.

Did you watch the SUPERBOWL????? DEFENSE WON.

New England with it's #1 Rated Offense LOST.

gyldenlove
02-06-2008, 11:31 AM
Yeah, but we are not the Cardinals, Lions, or Rams. We are the Denver Broncos and we actually have a QB. We actually have a coach who can maximize the talent. We have a good defense, we only need a few players to make it more solid. It was Shannahan's fault the Defense was so bad last year. He went and got an aggreisve type coach but threw it out the window because he got scared. We are now going back to what we know, so our defense just got that much better.

So we have a really good coach who can maximize talent, who also made our defense suck last year? Explain that again please.

So when the defense fell apart in the 2006 season, whos fault was that? Because that is what we are going back to, and it didn't seem a whole lot better to me, that I believe is why Coyer was FIRED!

We were 13-3 in 2005 because we had one of the best defenses in the league, we allowed very few points, had the second best rush defense. Since then we have been 9-7 with a defense that fell apart after 5 games, and 7-9 with no defense. The difference between 13-3 and 7-9 offensively is that we gain 14 yards per game less now than we did.

lancane
02-06-2008, 12:43 PM
That is possibly the WORST MOCK DRAFT I HAVE EVER SEEN.

Shaun Rogers = Big Fat DT with BAD KNEES.

We Don't need a RB in the 1st.

Bennett is late 2nd or early 3rd WR.

Your picks are horrible.

Did you watch the SUPERBOWL????? DEFENSE WON.

New England with it's #1 Rated Offense LOST.

Yep...and New York's 17th overall defense in points allowed won! Indianapolis had a twenty-something ranked defense overall, fact is that their defenses came to play...just like Denver did in both 97' and 98'. You have to be solid, not great. Defenses winning a championship has always been a statement of which defenses at the college and pro level have disproved. When I was in college our university had a very good defense, not the best but one of the best in the Big Ten, we played powerhouses like Michigan, Ohio St. and so forth and they were winning by scoring 30-40 points a game, and we still kept their offense fair, but our offense could barely score 20 points and so no matter what we did defensively we lost. The New York Giants did a great job, part of that was the scheme and game planning...and the fact they wanted it more, meaning they were hungry...New England has won three Super Bowls in this decade, going undefeated made their fire to win flicker and the hungrier team won. It is the 'Rocky' effect, the lower seed wanted the title more, just like Denver in 97' against the highly favored Packers, and we did not win because of Defense or Offense, but because of balance, game planning and our schemes. Look at our offense and defense for that Super Bowl, it was not great. In fact you could compare us to the Giants in a lot of ways, because like them our 'Bend don't break defense' stepped it up, but they did not score points, they did not put together 10 minute drives...that is because of the offense.

Our offense this year could barely score, so even if we improve by an average of 5. points a game which is equal to a top ten unit, our offense would be scoring near the same of around twenty points...then we likely go 8-8, 7-9 or 9-7, but we will not be 13-3, this year if our offense per chance scored on at least six drives they were suppose to, Denver woul have been 11-5 or 12-4, so that right there tells me the offense is in just a big a hole as defense.

;)

lancane
02-06-2008, 12:50 PM
I like the draft besides Davis' pick in the third round. I feel that there will be much better talent available at that selection at a whole ton of other positions. I'd also address OT a little higher. I have never seen that tight end play, but I doubt we'd even use a pick on one; unless he can play special teams.

Overall, I really enjoy it - don't know some of those players, but it's the first two guys that sell me.

As much as people would like to see defense, I think that offense back to back is a real legit chance.

Thanks Dream...

I wanted to go higher for offensive tackle, and I nearly took one in the 4th over the Jones pick, but I think Shanahan may go with his same route for offense linemen and hope to add depth to a very questionable end corps. Jarvis Moss may come and be ready to start, Crowder could be ready to challenge, or Ekuban, but what if we lose two of our ends again this year...or one even, we need that depth and he is a solid pick, not a great end by any means...just a solid ball player with potential. Davis I think will give Slowik a hard-on simply because of his ability to rush off the edge and be productive, 12.5 sacks for backers these days is near unheard of...lol. But I would not have minded if we went another way.

:cheers:

gyldenlove
02-06-2008, 12:58 PM
Our offense this year could barely score, so even if we improve by an average of 5. points a game which is equal to a top ten unit, our offense would be scoring near the same of around twenty points...then we likely go 8-8, 7-9 or 9-7, but we will not be 13-3, this year if our offense per chance scored on at least six drives they were suppose to, Denver woul have been 11-5 or 12-4, so that right there tells me the offense is in just a big a hole as defense.



I would tend to agree with you, however we have a lot of emerging players on our offense. People who should get better all by themselves. Cutler, should improve, Scheffler might be able to play an entire season, Pears, Kuper, Myers are all players I expect to improve. I expect Selvin Young will be better this year than last. Heck, I even expect Brandon Marshall to improve (although this may be stretching it).

On D, we can reasonably hope that DJ will settle into the middle, Abdullah probably will improve at S and we can hope that some combination of Crowder/Moss/Dumervil/Thomas gets better than last year. But on the positions where we really need help, not a lot of improvement is likely. We still need a DT, because we don't have one, we still need a S, because I will be damned if I think Lynch is getting better. Bailey and Bly are nok likely to emerge anymore than they have. Webster and Gold seem to have peaked as well.

I think our Offense with a little help and some natural improvement with experience, will be better than last year. I think our Defense, needs all the help it can get.

muse
02-06-2008, 01:31 PM
I'm pretty sure that we'll be after Bennett even if it's a reach. After all, there's the familiarity with Jay, the fact that his style is similar to Rod's and that he's one of the most intelligent players in the entire draft or so I hear. If Marshall could develop his deep game a little more it'll balance things out.

kratos_godofwar
02-06-2008, 01:35 PM
So we have a really good coach who can maximize talent, who also made our defense suck last year? Explain that again please.

Yeah, when you've been working on a certain scheme all year long and your coach then deceides that he wants to go back to the scheme you practiced last year. You aren't going to have much success because you have to throw out everything you've learned and start all over. That was Shanny's fault, he got scared and threw out the defense that they've been learning. The talents there, but Shanny got sloppy and let the defense slip and used Bates as a scapegoat. He shouldn't have hired Bates in the first place, he should have just had Slowik take control from the start.


So when the defense fell apart in the 2006 season, whos fault was that? Because that is what we are going back to, and it didn't seem a whole lot better to me, that I believe is why Coyer was FIRED!That was Coyers. He didn't adjust and kept the same D through out the whole year. He let the other teams know that they weren't going to change their D.

Dream
02-06-2008, 01:40 PM
How did Bruce look in Mobile in the linebacker drills, he's just a really undersized DE. I just think he's a 3-4 guy; like a poor man's Merriman, like really poor man's.

lancane
02-06-2008, 01:42 PM
I would tend to agree with you, however we have a lot of emerging players on our offense. People who should get better all by themselves. Cutler, should improve, Scheffler might be able to play an entire season, Pears, Kuper, Myers are all players I expect to improve. I expect Selvin Young will be better this year than last. Heck, I even expect Brandon Marshall to improve (although this may be stretching it).

On D, we can reasonably hope that DJ will settle into the middle, Abdullah probably will improve at S and we can hope that some combination of Crowder/Moss/Dumervil/Thomas gets better than last year. But on the positions where we really need help, not a lot of improvement is likely. We still need a DT, because we don't have one, we still need a S, because I will be damned if I think Lynch is getting better. Bailey and Bly are nok likely to emerge anymore than they have. Webster and Gold seem to have peaked as well.

I think our Offense with a little help and some natural improvement with experience, will be better than last year. I think our Defense, needs all the help it can get.

The offense is not that good, we are without a legit number two receiver - Walker wants out, he does not want to take a cut in pay and he may not be up to par, depending on what you believe. I believe he is milking the injury because he wants out and refuses the pay cut in hopes of being cut, fact is I think Shanahan will not risk it and will trade him to the first team who offers a good enough pick in return for him. Our offensive line is missing depth at the least, and at the most a possible legit starter. We have no blocking depth at tight end behind Graham and we use them more then true fullbacks. Denver also has two injury proned halfbacks and another who down right is just an optitmistic fan favorite in Hall, but none of these guys really scare a damn soul, they are overall mediocre. In truth, the fact they are hurting so much scares the hell out of me, because one wrong move and we can not compete period! So we need WR, OL, HB, TE offensively in my honest opinion.

Defensively we are young and had over eight, that is right eight new starters who are either rookies, from other teams or moved into new positions...that does take a toll on your unit, no matter what anyone says. That and remember we were in between schemes. We have a solid core, but we are missing a defensive tack and depth, safety and depth and a solid linebacker. Overall I will say that both offensively and defensively we are hurting about equal, but the fact we have always been a more solid offensive team in my opinion with Bowlen who is an offensive guy and Shanahan who is also offensive minded to me means fix the offensive first and tighten the bolts of the defense second.

broncobuss
02-06-2008, 01:50 PM
I'm pretty sure that we'll be after Bennett even if it's a reach. After all, there's the familiarity with Jay, the fact that his style is similar to Rod's and that he's one of the most intelligent players in the entire draft or so I hear. If Marshall could develop his deep game a little more it'll balance things out.

How much of a familiarity could bennett have with Jay, isnt bennett a junior, and if so that means he only played with jay when he was a freshman, not knocking the guy because he sounds like hes got alot of skills, but I think the familiarity thing might be a little over hyped

lancane
02-06-2008, 01:53 PM
How did Bruce look in Mobile in the linebacker drills, he's just a really undersized DE. I just think he's a 3-4 guy; like a poor man's Merriman, like really poor man's.

Truthfully not solid, on straight rushes he is impressive. As I said he is very one dimensional, he does not move sideline to sideline well, he is quick and not very fast. In fact I would rather have Crowder try to drop back to cover then Davis, you said it best 'he is a poor man's Merriman', or more should I say a hobo's Merriman! His value is strictly as a pash rusher off the edge or through the gaps. And that is why I think Slowik may go for him, I know Slowik's type of scheme, I was forced into a similar defense when I went to college and I swear after my red-shirt, freshmen and sophmore seasons I felt like a pure linebacker almost instead of a good overall strong safety. I think Davis's ability to rush will be the 'hard-on' factor, the other thing is I could see us drafting another light weight Gold-esq backer instead, who is only younger, faster and can do both well.

lancane
02-06-2008, 01:55 PM
How much of a familiarity could bennett have with Jay, isnt bennett a junior, and if so that means he only played with jay when he was a freshman, not knocking the guy because he sounds like hes got alot of skills, but I think the familiarity thing might be a little over hyped

Cutler is the one who talked Bennett into coming out for the draft instead of returning...why? Maybe because he wanted Bennett to come to Denver, otherwise I think he would tell him to give it one more year.

;)

muse
02-06-2008, 01:56 PM
How much of a familiarity could bennett have with Jay, isnt bennett a junior, and if so that means he only played with jay when he was a freshman, not knocking the guy because he sounds like hes got alot of skills, but I think the familiarity thing might be a little over hyped

True, but I think they were room mates and Earl did have 80 receptions in 2005.

broncobuss
02-06-2008, 02:05 PM
The offense is not that good, we are without a legit number two receiver - Walker wants out, he does not want to take a cut in pay and he may not be up to par, depending on what you believe. I believe he is milking the injury because he wants out and refuses the pay cut in hopes of being cut, fact is I think Shanahan will not risk it and will trade him to the first team who offers a good enough pick in return for him. Our offensive line is missing depth at the least, and at the most a possible legit starter. We have no blocking depth at tight end behind Graham and we use them more then true fullbacks. Denver also has two injury proned halfbacks and another who down right is just an optitmistic fan favorite in Hall, but none of these guys really scare a damn soul, they are overall mediocre. In truth, the fact they are hurting so much scares the hell out of me, because one wrong move and we can not compete period! So we need WR, OL, HB, TE offensively in my honest opinion.

Defensively we are young and had over eight, that is right eight new starters who are either rookies, from other teams or moved into new positions...that does take a toll on your unit, no matter what anyone says. That and remember we were in between schemes. We have a solid core, but we are missing a defensive tack and depth, safety and depth and a solid linebacker. Overall I will say that both offensively and defensively we are hurting about equal, but the fact we have always been a more solid offensive team in my opinion with Bowlen who is an offensive guy and Shanahan who is also offensive minded to me means fix the offensive first and tighten the bolts of the defense second.

I think that on offense the main thing we need, like you said, is a legit RB more than anything (might not agree on who that RB is) and its real hard to get that type of guy outside of the 1st 2 rounds so you have to pick up one early. that is what our offense works off of, altough we might end up needing a 2nd wr I dont think that is as important as a rb. and on defense I think our line is going to make a big jump this year with moss thomas and crowder in there 2nd year, to me the position in the draft that we need to look at early on the defensive side is Linebacker, and I think we need to get one in the 1st 2 rounds, like you said our defense dont have to be #1 for us to be good and I think we are not that far off from be above average D.
why do you think we need another TE, we look fairly set there,

cutlerfan
02-06-2008, 02:07 PM
Cutler is the one who talked Bennett into coming out for the draft instead of returning...why? Maybe because he wanted Bennett to come to Denver, otherwise I think he would tell him to give it one more year.

;)

Cutler does wan't Earl real bad. Earl wants to come here. The guy is a great talent and even a better person.

Watch this attutude

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwUzAWUHFy0

broncobuss
02-06-2008, 02:08 PM
True, but I think they were room mates and Earl did have 80 receptions in 2005.

thats pretty good for a freshman, maybe he can throw the combine and slip till the 4th

gyldenlove
02-06-2008, 02:15 PM
The offense is not that good, we are without a legit number two receiver - Walker wants out, he does not want to take a cut in pay and he may not be up to par, depending on what you believe. I believe he is milking the injury because he wants out and refuses the pay cut in hopes of being cut, fact is I think Shanahan will not risk it and will trade him to the first team who offers a good enough pick in return for him. Our offensive line is missing depth at the least, and at the most a possible legit starter. We have no blocking depth at tight end behind Graham and we use them more then true fullbacks. Denver also has two injury proned halfbacks and another who down right is just an optitmistic fan favorite in Hall, but none of these guys really scare a damn soul, they are overall mediocre. In truth, the fact they are hurting so much scares the hell out of me, because one wrong move and we can not compete period! So we need WR, OL, HB, TE offensively in my honest opinion.

Defensively we are young and had over eight, that is right eight new starters who are either rookies, from other teams or moved into new positions...that does take a toll on your unit, no matter what anyone says. That and remember we were in between schemes. We have a solid core, but we are missing a defensive tack and depth, safety and depth and a solid linebacker. Overall I will say that both offensively and defensively we are hurting about equal, but the fact we have always been a more solid offensive team in my opinion with Bowlen who is an offensive guy and Shanahan who is also offensive minded to me means fix the offensive first and tighten the bolts of the defense second.

I agree on the Walker business, he wants out, and he will get out. What we will get in return remains to be seen.
WR is a pretty good position in FA this year (Moss, Berrian, Isaac Bruce, DJ Hacket, Bryant Johnson), plus with a number of talented, but malcontent players out there (Walker, Chad Johnson) the market will be open, and it could turn into a buyers market (I hope).
Right now, the talk is that Hamilton and Nalen will both be back. Along with Myers, Kuper, Holland. That pretty much settles us for inside O-line. We do need tackles, desperately. Pears and Harris will the way I see it get a shot at starting, but we need some veteran depth behind for insurance, and I would like to see a draft pick (rd 4 or higher) on an OT.
TE can go both ways, Graham is obviously a stud, Scheffler can catch it with the best of them. I believe Nate Jackson will be retained, which leaves one spot open. I think we will fill that spot with a low round draft pick, Chad Mustard or a castoff from another team.
I am all for shedding our "fullbacks" and findind a real blocking full back, this would help our run game a lot.
As for half backs. I think with better blocking (Nalen, Hamilton) and development of Pears, along with hopefully a better FB we will be okay. They do have injuries, but find me a team who didn't suffer injuries to a HB this season.
I think if we get a WR in round 1, 2 or maybe 3. We will be okay on offense, we won't be the Patriots, but we can be top 10.

On the D, I just don't see it. Thomas has to come along, and even then we have 0 depth and only 1 quality starter at DT. DT being particularly weak in FA this year, is something we have to deal with either through trade (like you susgested) or through draft.
I hope we are set at DE. We have youth and depth.
I think we need 2 new starting LB's. Winborn, Beck can maybe take one of the slots, but we do need at least 1 new starter. I hope draft on this one, and hopefully round 1.
If Foxworth gets shipped out, we need a CB, midround pick can do it.

The core we have on D, is Bly and Bailey (so our CB's.), Crowder and Dumervil and DJ Williams. We have no DT who has proven to be good in the NFL, we have no S, who gives me any kind of safe feeling. We lack 2 starting linebackers. I think we need a LOT of help here. Changing our scheme might help a little, Thomas should fit in better, which is good. But it will take a lot more than that, we all saw how this scheme completely fell apart in the 2006 season.


Quote:
Originally Posted by gyldenlove
So we have a really good coach who can maximize talent, who also made our defense suck last year? Explain that again please.

Yeah, when you've been working on a certain scheme all year long and your coach then deceides that he wants to go back to the scheme you practiced last year. You aren't going to have much success because you have to throw out everything you've learned and start all over. That was Shanny's fault, he got scared and threw out the defense that they've been learning. The talents there, but Shanny got sloppy and let the defense slip and used Bates as a scapegoat. He shouldn't have hired Bates in the first place, he should have just had Slowik take control from the start.


Quote:
So when the defense fell apart in the 2006 season, whos fault was that? Because that is what we are going back to, and it didn't seem a whole lot better to me, that I believe is why Coyer was FIRED!

That was Coyers. He didn't adjust and kept the same D through out the whole year. He let the other teams know that they weren't going to change their D.

So you are saying you have to change the scheme over the year


He didn't adjust and kept the same D through out the whole year.

But you also say that


Yeah, when you've been working on a certain scheme all year long and your coach then deceides that he wants to go back to the scheme you practiced last year. You aren't going to have much success because you have to throw out everything you've learned and start all over.

So Coyer got fired because he didn't change the scheme during the year and now Shanahan is getting blamed for changing the scheme during the year. You have to make up your mind.


The talents there, but Shanny got sloppy and let the defense slip

They didn't slip, they sucked the whole the year.

We have a fundamental lack of talent on defense, it is plainly obvious that when your backups come in and you are no worse off that your starters aren't that good. Amon Gordon and Sam Adams started on DT, they were both replaced and we actually got slightly better. Gold was replaced by Winborn and we didn't get any worse. Ferguson was replaced by Foxworth and Abdullah, and we got better. When your backups make you better, you lack talent. You have depth, but you lack talent.

When Cutler went down and Ramsey took over, it was plain to see that we are a LOT better with Cutler than with Ramsey. When Walker went down and we had to go to Martinez and Stokley it was easy to see that we were a lot worse off.

cutlerfan
02-06-2008, 02:16 PM
It is funny. Jay is working on his game in Atlanta and Earl is in Florida working on his game before the combine and will go back after the combine.

cutlerfan
02-06-2008, 02:20 PM
When Walker went down and we had to go to Martinez and Stokley it was easy to see that we were a lot worse off.

I can't agree with you on that. I thought Martinez dropped a few balls but he caught some good ones. Stokley just gets it done!

The only thing Walker brought was his deep speed. Here is the question, will he have his 4.3 speed after his knee repair?? I just don't know. I wish the best for the guy but I remember Walker saying last year I am ready to go and each time his knee acted up on him.

lancane
02-06-2008, 02:27 PM
I think that on offense the main thing we need, like you said, is a legit RB more than anything (might not agree on who that RB is) and its real hard to get that type of guy outside of the 1st 2 rounds so you have to pick up one early. that is what our offense works off of, altough we might end up needing a 2nd wr I dont think that is as important as a rb. and on defense I think our line is going to make a big jump this year with moss thomas and crowder in there 2nd year, to me the position in the draft that we need to look at early on the defensive side is Linebacker, and I think we need to get one in the 1st 2 rounds, like you said our defense dont have to be #1 for us to be good and I think we are not that far off from be above average D.
why do you think we need another TE, we look fairly set there,

Why do we need a tight end, for the simple fact that when Graham went down we took a huge dive in both protection and production as a unit in whole, not one of our tight ends other then Graham is a solid blocker, and I think Shanahan eventually wants to eliminate the fullback position - now that is only a guess, but if we can have two tight ends basically in both the pass and blocking in most sets it gives us more weapons, but even for depth...if Graham went down it would be stupid to risk not having at least a tight end who can at least block good enough to replace him.

91bronco
02-06-2008, 02:46 PM
Why do we need a tight end, for the simple fact that when Graham went down we took a huge dive in both protection and production as a unit in whole, not one of our tight ends other then Graham is a solid blocker, and I think Shanahan eventually wants to eliminate the fullback position - now that is only a guess, but if we can have two tight ends basically in both the pass and blocking in most sets it gives us more weapons, but even for depth...if Graham went down it would be stupid to risk not having at least a tight end who can at least block good enough to replace him.

I think this is more a testament to our Offensive line than our TE's blocking ability. If we can't do a decent job with our O-line (yes I know we had substantial injuries) then we should be looking at fixing it with offensive lineman instead of TE's. Besides that, if we wanted a blocking TE we already have one in Mustard. Just my .02

lancane
02-06-2008, 02:53 PM
I think this is more a testament to our Offensive line than our TE's blocking ability. If we can't do a decent job with our O-line (yes I know we had substantial injuries) then we should be looking at fixing it with offensive lineman instead of TE's. Besides that, if we wanted a blocking TE we already have one in Mustard. Just my .02

If that was so then the entire NFL would not have kep on remarking that the loss of Graham is a big part of the loss of protection! ;) Mustard is not a solid tight end, he really has yet to prove anything beyond that he is third on a depth chart...our offensive line was hurting, I agree...but even a first round linemen may not fix this unit, and as I have said before the average starting linemen in this league are 2nd to 4th round picks...I really do not see us starting to change that anytime soon either.

broncobuss
02-06-2008, 03:01 PM
yea, i think we will be fine at TE, no matter what position you look at most of the time you are not going to have a great back up, its hard enough to geat a great starter, and I think musterd is a guy that can come in and play in short stints in replacement of graham if he is injured for a short period of time and if we lose him for the season, well were going to be hurting but grahams been fairly durible for his career so that should not be the case. as for the 2 te set scheffler needs to learn how to at least be a decent blocker or hes not going to make it long term for the Broncs.

lancane
02-06-2008, 03:06 PM
yea, i think we will be fine at TE, no matter what position you look at most of the time you are not going to have a great back up, its hard enough to geat a great starter, and I think musterd is a guy that can come in and play in short stints in replacement of graham if he is injured for a short period of time and if we lose him for the season, well were going to be hurting but grahams been fairly durible for his career so that should not be the case. as for the 2 te set scheffler needs to learn how to at least be a decent blocker or hes not going to make it long term for the Broncs.

I would not bet money on that, even our receivers can block...but we have always had solid blocking tight ends and solid receiving tight ends (Carswell/Sharpe) - (Putz/Alexander) - (Schef/Graham) and if Alexander was going to return for sure, then we may not go tight end, but I do not think he will and Scheffler is our receiving tight end and so we need a blocking tight end to back up Graham in case!

;)

91bronco
02-06-2008, 03:12 PM
I guess what I'm getting at is that if your best blocker is a TE then your problems lie with the offensive linemen NOT your TE's. This is exactly the scenario with Graham and the Broncos. A TE is a lineman who can catch and run as well as block. Losing Graham did have a profound effect on our production because he was our best blocker. What does that say about our starting Guards and Tackles? Does that mean we should get another TE? No, it means we should upgrade our Tackles and Guards.

Theres no point in picking up another TE if all we will use him for is blocking to help the O-line! We already have that in Mustard (who is a phenomenal blocker)- he's 3rd on the depth chart because he is one dimensional for a TE ie lacking recieving skills.

Don't we have Alexander as well on top of that as well?

lancane
02-06-2008, 03:20 PM
I guess what I'm getting at is that if your best blocker is a TE then your problems lie with the offensive linemen NOT your TE's. This is exactly the scenario with Graham and the Broncos. A TE is a lineman who can catch and run as well as block. Losing Graham did have a profound effect on our production because he was our best blocker. What does that say about our starting Guards and Tackles? Does that mean we should get another TE? No, it means we should upgrade our Tackles and Guards.

Theres no point in picking up another TE if all we will use him for is blocking to help the O-line! We already have that in Mustard (who is a phenomenal blocker)- he's 3rd on the depth chart because he is one dimensional for a TE ie lacking recieving skills.

Don't we have Alexander as well on top of that as well?

Graham was our best blocker because we used him as a fullback as well as a tight end, that means he protects the halfbacks, quarterback and is a receiver...

;)

And Alexander was injured this year, he is older and his value per contract is a bit much, he will likely be released.

broncobuss
02-06-2008, 03:42 PM
I would not bet money on that, even our receivers can block...but we have always had solid blocking tight ends and solid receiving tight ends (Carswell/Sharpe) - (Putz/Alexander) - (Schef/Graham) and if Alexander was going to return for sure, then we may not go tight end, but I do not think he will and Scheffler is our receiving tight end and so we need a blocking tight end to back up Graham in case!

;)

yes I dont see alexander returning but I still dont think its somthing we will adress in the draft, maybe there is a good solid blocking TE that we can pick up cheap in FA to back him up, and like I said I dont think mustard is all that bad as a back up and blocker on short yardage.

91bronco
02-06-2008, 03:43 PM
Lets be real here- we didn't use Graham as a recieving threat- we used him as a blocker. Our offensive line struggled to block anything without his help. Essentially we used him as another lineman. It really wouldn't have mattered if he was good or bad at recieving because we couldn't afford to let him run routes. To me that screams to upgrade our tackles and guards, not add another TE to solve the problem.

lancane
02-06-2008, 03:56 PM
Lets be real here- we didn't use Graham as a recieving threat- we used him as a blocker. Our offensive line struggled to block anything without his help. Essentially we used him as another lineman. It really wouldn't have mattered if he was good or bad at recieving because we couldn't afford to let him run routes. To me that screams to upgrade our tackles and guards, not add another TE to solve the problem.

Opinions vary...but the fact Shanahan said to the press "We do not use traditional fullbacks and utilize our tight ends in the run and pass game" speaks volumes against your suggestion and more that I am correct. Denver needs very little to have a good offensive line...and I would bet top dollar it will not be fixed in the first round of the draft.

91bronco
02-06-2008, 04:12 PM
Who said anything about fixing the O-line in the first round???

Read into it what you want, but Graham was underutilized in the passing game, Scheffler is developing into quite a recieving threat and we still have a solid blocker in Mustard as a 3rd tight end. Add Nate Jackson and Alexander into the mix and I fail to see the need for another TE in the draft- in fact, I see it as a team strength.

I look at our Guards, Tackles and Centers and I see some older vets on their way out, injuries and a lack of proven starters and depth. This is an area that needs much more attention than our current stable of 5 TE's.

lancane
02-06-2008, 04:28 PM
Who said anything about fixing the O-line in the first round???

Read into it what you want, but Graham was underutilized in the passing game, Scheffler is developing into quite a recieving threat and we still have a solid blocker in Mustard as a 3rd tight end. Add Nate Jackson and Alexander into the mix and I fail to see the need for another TE in the draft- in fact, I see it as a team strength.

I look at our Guards, Tackles and Centers and I see some older vets on their way out, injuries and a lack of proven starters and depth. This is an area that needs much more attention than our current stable of 5 TE's.

Alexander has a good sized contract and is likely to be released. Mustard is likely to get another shot, and Jackson is likely to follow Alexander. So we may be in for a tight end...and who really cares...I had one as a seventh round pick, if that bothers anyone that is really sad...especially if a tight end did improve our team and depth. And Peterson is more like a fullback, did anyone actually read the draft or just their names and positions? Oh well, this is getting too stupid, but I also think the fact Denver has talked to tight ends at the Senior Bowl sounds a bit like I am on the right track, even if the pick is not a high one!

gyldenlove
02-06-2008, 08:16 PM
I can't agree with you on that. I thought Martinez dropped a few balls but he caught some good ones. Stokley just gets it done!

The only thing Walker brought was his deep speed. Here is the question, will he have his 4.3 speed after his knee repair?? I just don't know. I wish the best for the guy but I remember Walker saying last year I am ready to go and each time his knee acted up on him.

Walker, in the 2 games he played healthy, had 17 catches, 220 yards.

Those numbers are better than what Martinez had for the season.

There can't be any doubt that a healthy Javon Walker is a better starter than Stokley or Martinez.

elevation INC
02-06-2008, 10:54 PM
Walker, in the 2 games he played healthy, had 17 catches, 220 yards.

Those numbers are better than what Martinez had for the season.

There can't be any doubt that a healthy Javon Walker is a better starter than Stokley or Martinez.



are you kidding me? what kind of stat is that when walker played he was the 1st reciver option when martinez played he was the 4th option. how can u compare stats between a 4th guy and 1st guy regardless of injury. thats just plain ludicrous.

how many number 4 recievrs you see in this league catch more than 200 yds????? basically none!!!!!!!

gyldenlove
02-07-2008, 12:35 PM
are you kidding me? what kind of stat is that when walker played he was the 1st reciver option when martinez played he was the 4th option. how can u compare stats between a 4th guy and 1st guy regardless of injury. thats just plain ludicrous.

how many number 4 recievrs you see in this league catch more than 200 yds????? basically none!!!!!!!

Martinez was number 3, not number 4.

Only Stokley and Marshall started ahead of him, but nice going there.

Here is a how-to to comparing stats, for the slow among us:

You look up a stat, receptions, fumbles, tackles, shoe size etc. for 2 or more players, then you figure out who did best. This is often done by finding the highest number (for things you want a lot of, such as receptions) or the lowest number (for things you want few of, such as fumbles). Then you conclude who did better.

What the previous example went to show is that we are in fact better off with Javon Walker on the field, than with Martinez on the field. As can be seen by how many balls they each caught.

lancane
02-22-2008, 12:02 PM
Some posters wanted me to show an updated mock with trades in place, TX...lol. As well as a few others, one which did not have us with thirty some odd picks, so I have been working on some ideas and recently with the reconstructioning of Travis Henry's contract and the other information available. So far this is what I have, some of you may be surprised...others will not be.

*Denver trades disgruntled wideout Javon Walker to Tampa Bay who they give mid round value to, Denver will also give them their original 7th round pick from the Jake Plummer debacle and in return Denver receives Tampa Bay's fourth round pick, 116th overall.*

*Needing a solid cornerback but maybe not wanting to overlook other needs, plus lacking a valuable starter at center, the Houston Texans trade their 79th overall pick in the third round for restricted free agent(s) offensive lineman Chris Myers and cornerback Dominique Foxworth. Denver will also receive a compensation pick in 2009 from Houston (Pending their status) in Houston.*

*Denver trades outside linebacker Ian Gold and running back Mike Bell to Green Bay for their fifth round pick, 156th overall. Bell will be looked to add depth to their running back stable and Ian Gold could give them a veteran starter to rotate in their linebacking corps.*

*Denver trades the 12th overall pick to Detroit for the 15th overall pick, in return Denver also receives the rights to defensive tackle Shaun Rogers which fills a huge need for their defensive front.*

*Wanting to move up to nab either a top defensive end or cornerback in the draft Philadelphia trades the 19th overall pick and 80th overall pick to Denver for the 15th overall pick.*

*Denver trade the 79th overall pick along with their 115th and 116th overall picks to Miami for the 57th overall pick in the second round.*

*Denver trades the 143rd overall pick and the 156th overall pick to New England for the 125th overall pick and 189th overall pick.*

Rnd 1 - 19th overall: Jeff Otah - Offensive Tackle - Pittsburgh
- Not your typical Bronco offensive lineman, but none the less one of the most highly touted tackles in the draft. A raw, mammoth tackle with tremendous upside, quick feet and good agility. Otah has an aggressive killer instinct that Denver lacks with their current offensive line and he would likely be an anchor to an offensive line which saw Cutler on his back far too many times for coaches to be at all pleased, on top of all that according to Pittsburgh coaches Otah was the unsung leader of their unit in 2007 and Denver also needs that with Nalen and Hamilton both likely gone in the near future.

Rnd 2 - 42nd overall: Earl Bennett - Wide Receiver - Vanderbilt
- Offense again? Yes, and I will tell you why...Shanahan said not but a month back he wants to give Cutler more weapons. After adding some protection for his franchise player with the first overall pick, Cutler's old friend gets nabbed a little early to secure him and add him to a receiving corps. that will not be considered the fastest in the league, but the most sured handed throughout the NFL. Stokely, Marshall, Stokley, Bennett and Graham gives Cutler an arsenal which would make even Peyton Manning crap his pants!

Rnd 2 - 57th overall: Jason Jones - Defensive End - Eastern Michigan
- Finally a defensive guy and a defensive end? Why not...with Ekuban likely not to return and Denver pulling a trade to get Shaun Rogers, the line has plenty of youth and all the talk of us drafting Merling has some credit. Jones is known to disrupt the field of play with his savvy knowledge of moves, though not at all great, he is still a solid addition. At 270lbs. he gives Slowik an end who is stout against the run and can be moved inside on passing downs and blitz packages. Jones's numbers may not impress fans but his ability to make plays will and he gives us ability for the front seven.

Continued -

lancane
02-22-2008, 12:05 PM
Rnd 3 - 80th overall: Tashard Choice - Tailback - Georgia Tech
- Choice raised some eyebrows with a solid Senior Bowl, but what he brings is your typical downhill running style with great poise, he is not over zealous to make things happen and thus will not do anything stupid. With a solid frame and balanced physical attributes Choice could be a solid second or third round pick, though he lacks great top speed his game speed is impressive as is his nack to find the gap and exploit it. And even though Henry re-worked his contract, no way will Shanahan enter the season with two highly injure proned backs that have saw more bench time in their careers then even most backups in the league. Give him by mid season and Choice may be carrying the load for Denver.

Rnd 4 - 104th overall: Jamar Adams - Strong Safety - Michigan
- With Denver likely given Abdullah a long-term contract according to Bill Williamson of the Denver Post, the team could be looking to re-sign John Ferguson to a minimal one year deal, especially if John Lynch retires. The issue for Denver is that Lynch was a true strong safety and Abdullah who showed flashes last year is a natural free safety. If Lynch does go look for Denver to start Ferguson at strong safety for the season, but Adams who is a mean and tough hitter would likely replace Ferguson the following season giving Denver some youth to their aging backfield between both Adams and Abdullah.

Rnd 4 - 125th overall: Jeremy Leman - Inside Linebacker - Illinois
- Denver missed out on top prospects by adding Jones in the second round, but Leman more then makes up for it. There is a reason why Ron Zook praises this kid and why he is considered the best linebacker in the past decade from the school; he is a tough SOB with a nose for the big play. He would have been a sure-fire third round pick, but he was slowed due to ankle surgery and recovery, the impressive part is that he played in pain for most of the season as he helped lead Illinois to the Rose Bowl, a natural athlete with great leadership abilities, Denver trades up to add him to their corps. he will get a chance to help special teams and learn this season, but with Denver usure about Williams future even on the team he brings valuable depth and a prospective replacement in the near future.

Rnd 5 - 132nd overall: Tyvon Branch - Defensive Back - Connecticut
- Branch could be this years steal for Denver, though Leman is more likely the steal for the Broncos in the long run. But Branch a former safety moved to cornerback is a hard hitting, sure tackler with good return ability. In essence a triple threat which Denver will likely look to add not only to boost special teams, but also give overall depth to the safety position and also the cornerback position.

Rnd 6 - 189th overall: Doug Legursky - Center - Marshall
- With Myers gone to Houston and Hamilton likely to be gone as well, Denver needs a replacement for Nalen when he retires likely after the season. Here enters Legursky a stout center who is bigger then any in recent Bronco memory at 6-3 and 311lbs. he was a solid starter for Marshall starting every game for Marshall during his college career and considered the rock foundation of their offensive line, more balanced then almost any center in the draft he would be a mainstay for the Broncos if he lives up to his potential.

Rnd 7 - 205th overall: Ken Debauche - P - Wisconsin
- Denver is one team who has been on the special teams merry go round since 2000 and one weak spot is punting, with problematic kickers coming and going…Denver will take the best available punter left and it is likely that Debauche who averaged in four seasons a good overall average of 42.5 yards per kick will come in to compete against whoever Denver decided to bring in to tryout for the position. It is not a sexy pick either because he is no Durant Brooks, but Denver has too many needs to go after someone too early in this draft for the position, and even if Debauche is not the answer he is a suitable replacement until Denver can get a solid punter.

**Now some will look at this draft and say I ignored too many needs that Denver has, but did I really? With so many defensive lineman receiving franchise tags, Shaun Rogers was a solid addition as was the addition of Jones who brings that lighter inside rushing ability but all around solid end to the front seven. Yes, I did ignore linebacker because we are likely to add one in free agency and Williams will likely have to start in the middle for the year, but Denver may not re-sign Williams when he becomes a free agent in 2010and if he brings similar numbers as he did last year he could be valuable trade bait for the 2009 off-season. Leman also could be the steal of the draft for Denver and next year Denver could go after a solid linebacker in the top of the draft for the outside. Between both Adams and Branch, along with Abdullah Denver should be able to finally put in place the quality safety corps. they have been hoping for, while Branch also gives a boost to the return game and gives depth at cornerback our strongest position. To top it all off we got a top punter to compete for the position, a anchoring tough offensive tackle, a solid prospect for the center position, a valuable wideout who could be a solid number two and a halfback for depth and who also could be a potential starter. All in all I would say the draft was solid...What do you think TX?**

:D

BroncoKazuki
02-22-2008, 12:12 PM
Like it Lanc Choice is the Final RB I would look at but do you think he can really be something special to the Broncos, or will he end up like most of the backs we get. Do well the 1st year, ok the 2nd year and 3rd year were trading him away?

also what about a Strait Trade with Dallas we send Walker for Ken Hamlin. They get another wide out and we get a safety?

Just asking about it.

lancane
02-22-2008, 12:17 PM
Like it Lanc Choice is the Final RB I would look at but do you think he can really be something special to the Broncos, or will he end up like most of the backs we get. Do well the 1st year, ok the 2nd year and 3rd year were trading him away?

also what about a Strait Trade with Dallas we send Walker for Ken Hamlin. They get another wide out and we get a safety?

Just asking about it.

No way in hell will they give a Pro Bowl safety for a disgruntled receiver with only one pro bowl to his name, Dallas will not even likely trade us Marcus Spears, the news out of Austin is that the Cowboys are throwing their picks and players Parcells himself really likes to get him to think about a trade between Miami and Dallas, that is why I have the trades as I have them. I really just do not see Dallas trading too much, unless for top notch quality.

BroncoKazuki
02-22-2008, 12:20 PM
No way in hell will they give a Pro Bowl safety for a disgruntled receiver with only one pro bowl to his name, Dallas will not even likely trade us Marcus Spears, the news out of Austin is that the Cowboys are throwing their picks and players Parcells himself really likes to get him to think about a trade between Miami and Dallas, that is why I have the trades as I have them. I really just do not see Dallas trading too much, unless for top notch quality.


I figured as much espcially how Dallas was doing something that was seemingly odd ball. Well if it happens it may pay off for Miami in the long run.

Still great mock Lanc.

BroncosTX77
02-22-2008, 12:52 PM
**Now some will look at this draft and say I ignored too many needs that Denver has, but did I really? With so many defensive lineman receiving franchise tags, Shaun Rogers was a solid addition as was the addition of Jones who brings that lighter inside rushing ability but all around solid end to the front seven. Yes, I did ignore linebacker because we are likely to add one in free agency and Williams will likely have to start in the middle for the year, but Denver may not re-sign Williams when he becomes a free agent in 2010and if he brings similar numbers as he did last year he could be valuable trade bait for the 2009 off-season. Leman also could be the steal of the draft for Denver and next year Denver could go after a solid linebacker in the top of the draft for the outside. Between both Adams and Branch, along with Abdullah Denver should be able to finally put in place the quality safety corps. they have been hoping for, while Branch also gives a boost to the return game and gives depth at cornerback our strongest position. To top it all off we got a top punter to compete for the position, a anchoring tough offensive tackle, a solid prospect for the center position, a valuable wideout who could be a solid number two and a halfback for depth and who also could be a potential starter. All in all I would say the draft was solid...What do you think TX?**

:D


Ask and you shall receive. I would be ecstatic with most of the offseason moves, except for Shaun Rogers.

As for the updated draft...

The problem I have with OT in the first round is most if not all of the OT’s are projected and considered RT in the pro’s yet everyone’s mock have them as protecting Cutler’s blindside. Denver already has LT in Ryan Harris. They need a RT for depth to learn 1 or 2 years and take over when Pears leaves. You don’t blow a mid first round pick for that.

I am warming up to and completely understanding the Earl Bennett pick. Hell I just see Shanny taking Bennett with 2nd round pick whether he has extra 2nd or 3rd rounder to play with.

Jason Jones. I don’t understand the reach on this guy in the 2nd round. Didn’t Denver draft Tim Crowder to be the replacement for Ekuban? Jones is 2nd day prospect 4-5th round. If Denver was looking for someone who could go DT/DE in 2nd round Kendall Langford would be a better prospect and he’s at least considered a 3rd round prospect b4 the combine.

Would be happy with Tashard Choice. Great pick and value.

Great Pick and value. I like this pick, Jamar Adams is strictly SS and would be great depth. Also look into Corey Lynch Appalachian State. Same type of player with just a little better coverage abilities. Could be had in 5th-6th round range.

Great pick and value. J. Lehman would be a wonderful eventual replacement for DJ in the middle, only concern are his ankles. Has durability concerns. He could definitely be the leader DJ is not and that Denver lacks on Defense.

Tyvon Branch is an ok pick. He is more suited to play strong safety than cb in NFL. He would make good competition for a return man. But since he is so limited in coverage I would like to see a different pick here, possibly a WR project that could return. Dexter Jackson or Marcus Smith come to mind.

I’ll give you the last 2 picks.

:salute:

lancane
02-22-2008, 01:10 PM
Ask and you shall receive. I would be ecstatic with most of the offseason moves, except for Shaun Rogers.

As for the updated draft...

The problem I have with OT in the first round is most if not all of the OT’s are projected and considered RT in the pro’s yet everyone’s mock have them as protecting Cutler’s blindside. Denver already has LT in Ryan Harris. They need a RT for depth to learn 1 or 2 years and take over when Pears leaves. You don’t blow a mid first round pick for that.

I am warming up to and completely understanding the Earl Bennett pick. Hell I just see Shanny taking Bennett with 2nd round pick whether he has extra 2nd or 3rd rounder to play with.

Jason Jones. I don’t understand the reach on this guy in the 2nd round. Didn’t Denver draft Tim Crowder to be the replacement for Ekuban? Jones is 2nd day prospect 4-5th round. If Denver was looking for someone who could go DT/DE in 2nd round Kendall Langford would be a better prospect and he’s at least considered a 3rd round prospect b4 the combine.

Would be happy with Tashard Choice. Great pick and value.

Great Pick and value. I like this pick, Jamar Adams is strictly SS and would be great depth. Also look into Corey Lynch Appalachian State. Same type of player with just a little better coverage abilities. Could be had in 5th-6th round range.

Great pick and value. J. Lehman would be a wonderful eventual replacement for DJ in the middle, only concern are his ankles. Has durability concerns. He could definitely be the leader DJ is not and that Denver lacks on Defense.

Tyvon Branch is an ok pick. He is more suited to play strong safety than cb in NFL. He would make good competition for a return man. But since he is so limited in coverage I would like to see a different pick here, possibly a WR project that could return. Dexter Jackson or Marcus Smith come to mind.

I’ll give you the last 2 picks.

:salute:

If you read Dennison's recent interview I believe with the Post, his words do not reassure anything with Harris, in fact they make you question him. As I have said before...there seems to be a chance that Harris will find himself learning from behind Hamilton and eventually replacing him at left guard. Which means tackle is still up in the air, but fortunately Harris could be valuable this year as a backup to both spots. Otah is a monster and that killer instinct he has is something which made Zimmerman so respected...of course a tackle is not a pretty pick, I would prefer we take Mendenhall but value would be there if he falls to the pick we have and that could be enough for Denver to pull the trigger. And as far as Bennett goes, I do not care who we take in the first at this juncture I would bet money that Bennett is our first pick in the second round to secure him for Cutler.

As far as the defensive end pick of Jones, he is considered a solid late 2nd to mid 3rd round pick, and he really brings that inside/outside ability mentioned when some said we should take Merling, I agree we could take someone of that ability, and more likely if we take Rogers...who you may not like, but there is few solid veterans who have the stats Rogers does that will be available to us without losing our shirts! And I agree that Choice, Leman and Adams are good value and solid additions. To not get me wrong, I still hope for Mendenhall and us to move in some similar fashion as I have stated, but I also know there is a chance we may not take him and so this was a viable and plausible mock with that in mind.

slick7
02-22-2008, 01:40 PM
If you could only figure out a way to sneak in my man crush or Caulcrick. :D

I can tell you put a lot of thought and effort into that. Lots of trades. I'd hate to see us lose Myers just because of his versatility, but you addressed it later with Legursky.


I have to be honest, I don't know who he is, or your 3rd,4th rounder or Branch.

lancane
02-22-2008, 01:58 PM
If you could only figure out a way to sneak in my man crush or Caulcrick. :D

I can tell you put a lot of thought and effort into that. Lots of trades. I'd hate to see us lose Myers just because of his versatility, but you addressed it later with Legursky.


I have to be honest, I don't know who he is, or your 3rd,4th rounder or Branch.

Thus a typical Denver draft...lol, only kidding.

Tashard Choice - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0i5NOVLl_s and here - http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/profile.php?pyid=8560

Jeremy Leman - http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/profile.php?pyid=9800

Jamar Adams - http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/profile.php?pyid=33286

Mike Legursky - http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/profile.php?pyid=56407

Tyvon Branch - http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/profile.php?pyid=32938

Those links may help...;)

BroncoKazuki
02-22-2008, 03:40 PM
Choice would be the most logical pick but the thing is we'll need 2 2nd round picks. Like you said but if we fail to get Mendenhall then Choice would be best overall, the guy would have been a sure fire 1st rounder if others didnt declare for this year's draft.

elevation INC
02-23-2008, 12:08 PM
Some posters wanted me to show an updated mock with trades in place, TX...lol. As well as a few others, one which did not have us with thirty some odd picks, so I have been working on some ideas and recently with the reconstructioning of Travis Henry's contract and the other information available. So far this is what I have, some of you may be surprised...others will not be.

*Denver trades disgruntled wideout Javon Walker to Tampa Bay who they give mid round value to, Denver will also give them their original 7th round pick from the Jake Plummer debacle and in return Denver receives Tampa Bay's fourth round pick, 116th overall.*

*Needing a solid cornerback but maybe not wanting to overlook other needs, plus lacking a valuable starter at center, the Houston Texans trade their 79th overall pick in the third round for restricted free agent(s) offensive lineman Chris Myers and cornerback Dominique Foxworth. Denver will also receive a compensation pick in 2009 from Houston (Pending their status) in Houston.*

*Denver trades outside linebacker Ian Gold and running back Mike Bell to Green Bay for their fifth round pick, 156th overall. Bell will be looked to add depth to their running back stable and Ian Gold could give them a veteran starter to rotate in their linebacking corps.*

*Denver trades the 12th overall pick to Detroit for the 15th overall pick, in return Denver also receives the rights to defensive tackle Shaun Rogers which fills a huge need for their defensive front.*

*Wanting to move up to nab either a top defensive end or cornerback in the draft Philadelphia trades the 19th overall pick and 80th overall pick to Denver for the 15th overall pick.*

*Denver trade the 79th overall pick along with their 115th and 116th overall picks to Miami for the 57th overall pick in the second round.*

*Denver trades the 143rd overall pick and the 156th overall pick to New England for the 125th overall pick and 189th overall pick.*

Rnd 1 - 19th overall: Jeff Otah - Offensive Tackle - Pittsburgh
- Not your typical Bronco offensive lineman, but none the less one of the most highly touted tackles in the draft. A raw, mammoth tackle with tremendous upside, quick feet and good agility. Otah has an aggressive killer instinct that Denver lacks with their current offensive line and he would likely be an anchor to an offensive line which saw Cutler on his back far too many times for coaches to be at all pleased, on top of all that according to Pittsburgh coaches Otah was the unsung leader of their unit in 2007 and Denver also needs that with Nalen and Hamilton both likely gone in the near future.

Rnd 2 - 42nd overall: Earl Bennett - Wide Receiver - Vanderbilt
- Offense again? Yes, and I will tell you why...Shanahan said not but a month back he wants to give Cutler more weapons. After adding some protection for his franchise player with the first overall pick, Cutler's old friend gets nabbed a little early to secure him and add him to a receiving corps. that will not be considered the fastest in the league, but the most sured handed throughout the NFL. Stokely, Marshall, Stokley, Bennett and Graham gives Cutler an arsenal which would make even Peyton Manning crap his pants!

Rnd 2 - 57th overall: Jason Jones - Defensive End - Eastern Michigan
- Finally a defensive guy and a defensive end? Why not...with Ekuban likely not to return and Denver pulling a trade to get Shaun Rogers, the line has plenty of youth and all the talk of us drafting Merling has some credit. Jones is known to disrupt the field of play with his savvy knowledge of moves, though not at all great, he is still a solid addition. At 270lbs. he gives Slowik an end who is stout against the run and can be moved inside on passing downs and blitz packages. Jones's numbers may not impress fans but his ability to make plays will and he gives us ability for the front seven.

Continued -






I agree with that mock and like quite a bit of it except for jason jones, i do not want a FA LB i want a rookie who can come in and perform, So give me Erin henderson or Phillip wheeler with that second rd pick and i'm happy, but overall great effort.



I would also be stoked if shanny managed to pull all those trades out, congrats to you for having a crazy enough mind to figure that all out:D



also Cp's for you....i have to spread more around before i can give u more, so take a raincheck....lol