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View Full Version : I just can't take it anymore!!!!!!!!!!!! ARGH



VA BroncosFan
02-10-2008, 07:47 PM
There is no reason to draft a RB in the first round, please here me out.

First off, Travis Henry will stay in Denver and Young is a very serviceable change of pace back.

Okay, so Henry had a bad year, but he has something to prove to his critics. The guy was very good in Buffalo and Tennessee and I remember nobody dogging this guy on the message boards before this season. By calling him a bum now is ridiculous.

Our running game will go as far as our offensive line takes us. Look at the Rams & the "Chefs". Both of their running games suffered due to damaged offensive lines. Are Steven Jackson and Larry Johnson bums too? If you say yes, then quit reading this right now. So look at their stats, they are comparable. Henry averaged 4.1 yards/carry, Jackson 4.2 & Johnson 3.5. Hell they had bad years and that happens. Why abandon this guy now. Fast Willie Parker and Willis McGahee both averaged 4.1 yards/carry this year and both are in the Probowl. (Parker injured/could not play but would have been there and likely led the league in rushing.)

Look at the top 13 teams that led the league in rushing yards/game.
Vikings, Jaguars, Steelers, Giants, Titans, Raiders, Chargers, Eagles, Broncos, Browns, Bucs, Redskins, Patriots. (8 made the playoffs. And you could say the Packers found their running game the second half of the year and that is why they made it to the NFC Championship game).

We have to address the Lines on both sides. Why is this even being argued at all? I've read your points on why to draft a RB in the 1st round and while you make understandable points, you are not prioritizing 1)what our team needs, 2) what we currently have and 3) understand why we had the season we had. Yes, our running game was not stellar (9th in NFL), but why? Henry got injured and had the little "second hand smoke" fiasco, (in which he was acquitted for) but Young filled in exceptional for him. The guy got injured. So he has one injury plagued season and you want to drop him? I could understand if he has 2 or more consistent injury plagued seasons or even a serious injury that would prevent him to play well in the future, but this is not the case.

Our offensive line had an injury plagued season. Hell, lets just drop Nalen & Hamilton then. Of course not, that doesn't make any sense does it. So why does dropping Henry? Our depth chart at runningback is not our problem. Our offensive line is our problem. We need to 1) stay healthy and 2) get more talented. Now I'm not going to argue who they should draft on the offensive line, that is for a later date. The scouts will have their chance at the combine and after.

Its no secret, we NEED to be able to stop the run. Defensive Tackle is a huge priority. Why pay all of this money and have all-pro defensive backs if the teams we play can run the ball down are throat at will and keep the ball out of Cutler's hands. If we do not stop the run next year, we will not make the playoffs again. Look at the top 12 teams that stopped the run last year. Vikings, Ravens, Steelers, Redskins, Titans, Cowboys, Eagles, Giants, Cardinals, Patriots, Jaguars, Seahawks. (8 made the playoffs).

And we all seen what rushing the quarterback can do for a team (see superbowl 42). Why can't we get to the quarterback? We never blitz our linebackers. How come? Beacause they have to stay in their gaps to defend the run because of our sub-par defensive line. IF we get a respectable defensive line, we can send more blitz schemes and get to the quarterback. Still questioning my motives? Look at the top five teams that led the league in sacks this year. GIANTS, PATRIOTS, Cowboys, Seahawks, Chargers. Yep, you guessed it, all made the playoffs, 3 of the four conference championship participants.

I cannot rant anymore on this, I just can't. If we neglect to land key free-agents and draft early to boost our offensive and defensive lines we will go nowhere. Hell, I'd even understand drafting safety in the first round, but RB in the first would be a joke.

The Dyna$ty
02-10-2008, 07:52 PM
I say draft a RB if Kenny Phillips and Sedrick Ellis are gone.

MindField
02-10-2008, 07:55 PM
Yeah, your right, Drafting a top notch RB in the first round, which could once and for all stop the seemingly endless revolving door at RB, help us improve dramatically in the Red Zone (which in itself could transalte to three or four more wins next year) is a BAD idea!

Especially when you have a proven knucklehead at tailback that has already let us down when we counted in him, and even if he can manage to stay out of trouble, can't stay healthy.

Look, you are entitled to your opinon, but don't try to make an argument that Drafting a RB in the first round does not have merit or would be a waste of a first round pick, because that simply is not the case.

The REALITY is, the Broncos probably could not draft a player that would have a BIGGER impact on their team in 2008 THAN a RB.

VA BroncosFan
02-10-2008, 08:00 PM
I say draft a RB if Kenny Phillips and Sedrick Ellis are gone.

WHY??????

I could live with Phillips, but why draft a RB? I'd even be okay with trading down to get a DT or OL later in the first round as long as we can get some more picks with it. What is wrong with Henry and Young? Did you even read what I posted?

VA BroncosFan
02-10-2008, 08:05 PM
Yeah, your right, Drafting a top notch RB in the first round, which could once and for all stop the seemingly endless revolving door at RB, help us improve dramatically in the Red Zone (which in itself could transalte to three or four more wins next year) is a BAD idea!

Especially when you have a proven knucklehead at tailback that has already let us down when we counted in him, and even if he can manage to stay out of trouble, can't stay healthy.

Look, you are entitled to your opinon, but don't try to make an argument that Drafting a RB in the first round does not have merit or would be a waste of a first round pick, because that simply is not the case.

The REALITY is, the Broncos probably could not draft a player that would have a BIGGER impact on their team in 2008 THAN a RB.

OFFENSIVE LINE CAUSED THE LACK OF RUNNING GAME. Let me guess, Henry is the reason Cutler had 2 seconds to get rid of the ball all year too? Henry had done nothing wrong but get injured in Denver. I hope Bailey doesn't twist a knee or seperate a shoulder again. You guys would want to cut him loose too. GEEZ

stnzed
02-10-2008, 08:14 PM
It's not really that hard to understand where people are coming from when they talk about taking a RB in the first round.

It makes sense, ya'll just don't like it.

If, by the time the draft rolls around, there is magically some defensive player worth taking at 12, I'm sure everybody would be open to taking a defensive player.

But right now, it doesn't appear that Phillips/Conner/Rivers/Merling/Campbell/Balmer are worth it, it doesn't look like Ellis/Dorsey/Golston will be available.

You know damn good and well Shanahan will never take Long/Clady/Williams!

There are no WR's to take!

They don't need a QB!

Btw, Henry cannot be counted on, Young and Hall are China Dolls.

RB makes sense, YOU JUST DON'T LIKE IT.

Btw, I'm still trying to figure out how drafting Phillips helps the Run Defense......

MindField
02-10-2008, 08:15 PM
WHY??????

I could live with Phillips, but why draft a RB? I'd even be okay with trading down to get a DT or OL later in the first round as long as we can get some more picks with it. What is wrong with Henry and Young? Did you even read what I posted?

Yeah, we read it, so what?

It does not make you right.

Travis Henry has reached the point in his career where he won't be able to stay healthy. Selvin Young is a great change-up as a backup, but nothing more.

The bottom line is, in the first round, you have to get a GREAT player that can become an instant impact player, and there aren't many of those in this Draft.

Sedrick Ellis is the only DT even remotely in consideration for the #12 pick, and history would suggest he will be gone.

Kenny Phillips is a talented young player, but if you Draft him, he is likely to be at least two years away from serioulsy helping the Defense.

I agree that OT Ryan Clady would be a great pick, but OLT's also get Drafted early due to demand, so there is no guarantee he will be there.

Beyond that, there wouldn't be a BETTER selection available at #12 than Stewart/Mendenhall. It's easy to say trade down, but if you do that, you are taking a lesser ranked player, period, and settling for that with the return of an additional pick. That is a questionable tactic in a Draft like this one that is filled with 'pothole' players in what is a poor Draft in alot of areas that are important to the Broncos, such as DT, LB and Safety.

The bottom line is Jonathan Stewart and Rashard Mendenhall look like great players that could help the Broncos both dramatically and immediately, and you can't say that about alot of other players at other positions.

AC1
02-10-2008, 08:15 PM
Yeah, your right, Drafting a top notch RB in the first round, which could once and for all stop the seemingly endless revolving door at RB, help us improve dramatically in the Red Zone (which in itself could transalte to three or four more wins next year) is a BAD idea!

Especially when you have a proven knucklehead at tailback that has already let us down when we counted in him, and even if he can manage to stay out of trouble, can't stay healthy.

Look, you are entitled to your opinon, but don't try to make an argument that Drafting a RB in the first round does not have merit or would be a waste of a first round pick, because that simply is not the case.

The REALITY is, the Broncos probably could not draft a player that would have a BIGGER impact on their team in 2008 THAN a RB.

He is saying that there are more important needs than RB. There's no doubt that it would be nice to have a feature back, and had we been coming off a 13-3 season, we could have afforded to add the final piece to the puzzle (like we almost did with Maroney after the 2005 season).

Getting a premier LT is critical to ensure that Cutler gets the best protection to maximize his potential and turn our team into a consistent contender. He is the most important player on our team, and his play can have the largest possible impact on the fortunes of our team, even if we bring in a franchise RB. He may be able to do a decent job while getting as much pressure as he did this past season. But to truly get the best return for our investment in him, we need to provide him with a premier LT to grow with. Pears is a scrub, and Harris' injury concerns don't inspire absolute confidence. He may turn out to be good, but getting a first-round talent to compete with him (with the loser getting the RT spot), ensures that Cutler gets a strong pocket around him to shred opposing defenses from.

It could be argued that we need to get a first-round RB as well (I believe we could get a first-round caliber back in the second round this season with Tashard Choice or Kevin Smith, who could both be franchise backs). In that case, the smart thing to do would be to get your LT first because he will take longer to develop than the RB who can have an immediate impact like you said.

I fail to see why people are so obsessed with getting immediate impact. The goal should be to turn into a perennial championship contender.

Geandily
02-10-2008, 08:18 PM
Broncos will not draft a runningback in the first round, it' definitely not one of our top needs, Selvin Young and Travis Henry should be fine, Mike Bell is a decent enough backup. Our running game was consistently getting 125 yards throughout the season, a first round draftpick runningback would MAYBE push us up to like 140 yards per game, if that.

Our running game is fine, the NFL isn't a running league anymore, if you can get 4.2 yards per carry you're doing great, the running game just needs to be good enough to take pressure off of the passing game. We already have that, the running game is fine, we won't draft a runningback in the first round.

VA BroncosFan
02-10-2008, 08:20 PM
He is saying that there are more important needs than RB. There's no doubt that it would be nice to have a feature back, and had we been coming off a 13-3 season, we could have afforded to add the final piece to the puzzle (like we almost did with Maroney after the 2005 season).

Getting a premier LT is critical to ensure that Cutler gets the best protection to maximize his potential and turn our team into a consistent contender. He is the most important player on our team, and his play can have the largest possible impact on the fortunes of our team, even if we bring in a franchise RB. He may be able to do a decent job while getting as much pressure as he did this past season. But to truly get the best return for our investment in him, we need to provide him with a premier LT to grow with. Pears is a scrub, and Harris' injury concerns don't inspire absolute confidence. He may turn out to be good, but getting a first-round talent to compete with him (with the loser getting the RT spot), ensures that Cutler gets a strong pocket around him to shred opposing defenses from.

It could be argued that we need to get a first-round RB as well (I believe we could get a first-round caliber back in the second round this season with Tashard Choice or Kevin Smith, who could both be franchise backs). In that case, the smart thing to do would be to get your LT first because he will take longer to develop than the RB who can have an immediate impact like you said.

I fail to see why people are so obsessed with getting immediate impact. The goal should be to turn into a perennial championship contender.

EXACTLY MY POINT!!!! IT WON"T HURT TO GIVE CUTLER A FEW SECONDS TO THROW THE BALL & LET HENRY AND YOUNG DO THEIR THING. HENRY GOT BANGED UP THIS SEASON, HE WILL BE FINE.

MindField
02-10-2008, 08:23 PM
OFFENSIVE LINE CAUSED THE LACK OF RUNNING GAME. Let me guess, Henry is the reason Cutler had 2 seconds to get rid of the ball all year too? Henry had done nothing wrong but get injured in Denver. I hope Bailey doesn't twist a knee or seperate a shoulder again. You guys would want to cut him loose too. GEEZ

OK, take 2007 out of the equasion...look at 2006 when the Broncos lost in the AFC Championship game....Mike Anderson ran out of gas the last month of the season, our running game ground to a halt, and that more than anything else cost us a Super Bowl berth.

Travis Henry, Mike Anderson, Selvin Young, Mike Bell and Ruben Droughsn are not Terrell Davis or Clinton Portis, and if you think they are, you have bought in too much to the myth surrounding the Broncos vaunted running game.

In the NFL, talent supercedes anything else, and both Jonathan Stewart and Rashard Mendhenhall would have a greater impact and return on investment than virtually any other players we could select.

Mike Shanahan is an Offensive coach first and foremost, so the best blueprint for the Broncos is to get him as many weapons as humanly possible, and just go about outscoring teams, just as we did in 1997-98.

It won't be hard to build a defense that was as good as those Defenses were.

We don't need to be the 1985 Bears or the 2001 Ravens, and all of this talk that we do is simply not true.

VA BroncosFan
02-10-2008, 08:27 PM
OK, take 2007 out of the equasion...look at 2006 when the Broncos lost in the AFC Championship game....Mike Anderson ran out of gas the last month of the season, our running game ground to a halt, and that more than anything else cost us a Super Bowl berth.

Travis Henry, Mike Anderson, Selvin Young, Mike Bell and Ruben Droughsn are not Terrell Davis or Clinton Portis, and if you think they are, you have bought in too much to the myth surrounding the Broncos vaunted running game.

In the NFL, talent supercedes anything else, and both Jonathan Stewart and Rashard Mendhenhall would have a greater impact and return on investment than virtually any other players we could select.

Mike Shanahan is an Offensive coach first and foremost, so the best blueprint for the Broncos is to get him as many weapons as humanly possible, and just go about outscoring teams, just as we did in 1997-98.

It won't be hard to build a defense that was as good as those Defenses were.

We don't need to be the 1985 Bears or the 2001 Ravens, and all of this talk that we do is simply not true.

Do you not remember Jake Plummer having about 1.4 seconds to get rid of the ball all game long. That could have had something to do with losing that game too don't ya think?

broncobuss
02-10-2008, 08:32 PM
You make alot of good arguments, we can get by with henry, and our o-line needs upgraded, but I dont think we should draft a O-line in the 1st round, or probably the 2nd for that matter, the players that fit our system are guys that we only want, so we can wait until later rounds and still get the best guys for our system, not to mention I think the best way to address the o-line is through free agency, I know that the broncos said that they are not going to be big players in FA this year, but I think there are alot of journeyman lineman to be had that could help us out much more than a rookie o-lineman. and of all of our free agent signings we do best with lineman, (zimmerman, schreleth, habib, tony jones, salam,) we need to go back to that, journeyman o-lineman and 2nd day picks to develop. As far as dt in the 1st, there just isnt that many that are differance makers besides the top 2, and there is good value in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. so that doesnt leave much besides linebacker, saftey, and running back to get in the 1st round, I like trading back like alot have said and getting more picks, but I think alot of people are looking at the 1st round and saying the best value at that point is RB, and to say henry is more than a 1 season answer right now is stretching it and people would like to see the broncos get that francise back, me included.

MindField
02-10-2008, 08:36 PM
Broncos will not draft a runningback in the first round, it' definitely not one of our top needs, Selvin Young and Travis Henry should be fine, Mike Bell is a decent enough backup. Our running game was consistently getting 125 yards throughout the season, a first round draftpick runningback would MAYBE push us up to like 140 yards per game, if that.

Our running game is fine, the NFL isn't a running league anymore, if you can get 4.2 yards per carry you're doing great, the running game just needs to be good enough to take pressure off of the passing game. We already have that, the running game is fine, we won't draft a runningback in the first round.

I guess you have to define what 'fine' means...I know this, I do not see our running game as any better now than it was in the 2005 season, when Mike Anderson was the featured back. Our running game was not good enough to take pressure off of Plummer when we needed it most, and get us past the Steelers and back to a Super Bowl, and between Anderson and Bell, they each had over 900 yards rushing.

We could debate just exactly what your statement about the NFL 'not being
a running League anymore' means, but if you think you don't absolutely need to run it down the stretch, when you could be playing in bad weather and in the Playoffs, you could not be more wrong....and mediocre backs like Selvin Young and Travis Henry are not going to be the starting RB for a Super Bowl team, I am sure of that.

...and for all of you that say, 'Well, look at the teams that have won the Super Bowls, they did not all have "great" RB's.." To that I say SO WHAT? There is more than one way to build a Championship team...so for every NY Giants, or Tampa Bay Buccaneers, or New England Patriots that did not have great running backs, I give you the Denver Broncos with Terrell Davis, the Dallas Cowboys with Emmitt Smith, the St. Louis Rams with Marshall Faulk, the Baltimore Ravens with Jamal Lewis, and the Steelers, who leaned heavily on Jerome Bettis and Willie Parker in winning their Super Bowl...and even the Buccaneers had 100 yard performance out of Michael Pittman in the SB, and the New England Patriots utilized big-time perfomances by Laurence Maroney in this years Playoff run, as did the NY Giants, particularly in Green Bay in frigid weather to get past the Packers.

stnzed
02-10-2008, 08:40 PM
You make alot of good arguments, we can get by with henry, and our o-line needs upgraded, but I dont think we should draft a O-line in the 1st round, or probably the 2nd for that matter, the players that fit our system are guys that we only want, so we can wait until later rounds and still get the best guys for our system, not to mention I think the best way to address the o-line is through free agency, I know that the broncos said that they are not going to be big players in FA this year, but I think there are alot of journeyman lineman to be had that could help us out much more than a rookie o-lineman. and of all of our free agent signings we do best with lineman, (zimmerman, schreleth, habib, tony jones, salam,) we need to go back to that, journeyman o-lineman and 2nd day picks to develop. As far as dt in the 1st, there just isnt that many that are differance makers besides the top 2, and there is good value in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. so that doesnt leave much besides linebacker, saftey, and running back to get in the 1st round, I like trading back like alot have said and getting more picks, but I think alot of people are looking at the 1st round and saying the best value at that point is RB, and to say henry is more than a 1 season answer right now is stretching it and people would like to see the broncos get that francise back, me included.

It makes me sick to my freakin stomach, but this is probably how Denver sees it......Denver has no use for Talented offensive lineman.

The notion that 1st or 2nd round lineman do not fit Denver's system is a myth, though, imo Chris Kuper could have been considered in the 2nd round had he not been a small school prospect......

broncolee
02-10-2008, 08:42 PM
If Henry is serious about making things right for the Broncos, drafting a running back in the first round is a moot point. The Broncos supposedly want to restructure his contract, he hasn't openly stated that he's opposed to that idea.

Bringing Henry back is a better option than drafting a running back to replace him in 2008. Fixing the front seven or the offensive line is a bigger issue than getting a running back. Dorsey and Ellis will be gone before we pick. Getting Keith Rivers or an offensive tackle would be a better option than a running back. Although, Scouts, Inc has Kentwan Balmer ranked 17th overall now, he might also be a better option than a running back.

Btw, for all the Kenny Phillips lovers, Scouts,Inc now has him ranked 28th. They did have him at 11th.

Mendenhall is now ranked 13th so it wouldn't be a reach for the Broncos to take him, I just hope they don't though. I suppose it would be necessary to draft him if they can't restructure Henry. If Henry's gone by draft day, I won't be upset if they take Mendenhall or Stewart.

Of course, the rankings could change by draft day and the NFL teams might not agree with them anyway. We'll see come April.

MindField
02-10-2008, 08:44 PM
Do you not remember Jake Plummer having about 1.4 seconds to get rid of the ball all game long. That could have had something to do with losing that game too don't ya think?

There were a number of factors in why we lost that game, and I am not suggesting our O-Line is great by any stretch of the imagination, and if you are going to suggest we select Boise St. OLT Ryan Clady, for example, I would have no argument against it at all....I just object to all of this talk about the selection of Jonathan Stewart or Rashard Mendenhall as being bad or 'wasted' picks, because to me, that is a complete joke, because either of them would add a dynamic new dimension we have lacked in our Offense since Clinton Portis left town....and with a QB like Cutler, with his arm, and a budding young Superstar at WR in Brandon Marshall, this could easliy be the most powerful offensive team seen in Denver since the days of Elway, Davis, Smith, Sharpe, McCaffrey, et all...and that is exciting to me....much more exciting than facing the prospects of another year of Mike Bell, Selvin Young, Andre Hall or Travis Henry, that is for damn sure.

stnzed
02-10-2008, 08:49 PM
If Henry is serious about making things right for the Broncos, drafting a running back in the first round is a moot point. The Broncos supposedly want to restructure his contract, he hasn't openly stated that he's opposed to that idea.

Bringing Henry back is a better option than drafting a running back to replace him in 2008. Fixing the front seven or the offensive line is a bigger issue than getting a running back. Dorsey and Ellis will be gone before we pick. Getting Keith Rivers or an offensive tackle would be a better option than a running back. Although, Scouts, Inc has Kentwan Balmer ranked 17th overall now, he might also be a better option than a running back.

Btw, for all the Kenny Phillips lovers, Scouts,Inc now has him ranked 28th. They did have him at 11th.

Mendenhall is now ranked 13th so it wouldn't be a reach for the Broncos to take him, I just hope they don't though. I suppose it would be necessary to draft him if they can't restructure Henry. If Henry's gone by draft day, I won't be upset if they take Mendenhall or Stewart.

Of course, the rankings could change by draft day and the NFL teams might not agree with them anyway. We'll see come April.

Funny you mention Rivers and Scouts Inc, Rivers is 22nd on Scouts Inc at the moment.

Balmer is a possible one year wonder/underachiever/contract year DT isn't he? Those are Scarlett Letters in these parts, and it's cause enough to keep him out of 12th pick consideration......

slick7
02-10-2008, 08:51 PM
I think our o line is what loses us games to the more physical teams, especially that playoff loss to the Steelers. Throw the Jags and two Charger butt whippings this year, in there too.

I also can't really argue that a top flight RB wouldn't be maybe the best help for the team right away. IMO they're both needs. This draft happens to have two backs that should fall to us, that many posters feel would help our team immediately.


I still think with Mendenhall or Stewart, we eat up the yards between the 20's and stall out, but hopefully I'm wrong.

broncobuss
02-10-2008, 08:52 PM
It makes me sick to my freakin stomach, but this is probably how Denver sees it......Denver has no use for Talented offensive lineman.

The notion that 1st or 2nd round lineman do not fit Denver's system is a myth, though, imo Chris Kuper could have been considered in the 2nd round had he not been a small school prospect......

I think that the guys in the 1st round are talented, just they are too big to handle the type of quick blocking that we do, I think there are alot of guys in the later rounds that have just as much talent but that other teams look at as too small to fit there systems, which is why we can wait until later to pick them, because no one else is going to. If there is a guy that we really like, but that we know nobody else is going to take, then would it make sense for us to use a 1st round pick on him just because he is rated high on our boards? no. drafting aint all about drafting who you think is best, its also about knowing what everyone else thinks so you can maximize your picks at the right time.

MindField
02-10-2008, 08:52 PM
If Henry is serious about making things right for the Broncos, drafting a running back in the first round is a moot point. The Broncos supposedly want to restructure his contract, he hasn't openly stated that he's opposed to that idea.

Bringing Henry back is a better option than drafting a running back to replace him in 2008. Fixing the front seven or the offensive line is a bigger issue than getting a running back. Dorsey and Ellis will be gone before we pick. Getting Keith Rivers or an offensive tackle would be a better option than a running back. Although, Scouts, Inc has Kentwan Balmer ranked 17th overall now, he might also be a better option than a running back.

Btw, for all the Kenny Phillips lovers, Scouts,Inc now has him ranked 28th. They did have him at 11th.

Mendenhall is now ranked 13th so it wouldn't be a reach for the Broncos to take him, I just hope they don't though. I suppose it would be necessary to draft him if they can't restructure Henry. If Henry's gone by draft day, I won't be upset if they take Mendenhall or Stewart.

Of course, the rankings could change by draft day and the NFL teams might not agree with them anyway. We'll see come April.

It is not a moot point, because if you look at the last FIVE years of Henry's NFL career, four of them have seen him miss significant playing time due to injury, which raises a legitimate question about his ability to take the pounding of a full season.

To me, Henry just takes too much of a pounding to hope that he can stay healthy. The odds just aren't in his favor, period.

SBboundBRONCOS
02-10-2008, 08:58 PM
everyone needs to stop bringing up yards and the average yards per rush and all these stats.

the fact is our offense only put up 20 points a game on avg thats good for 21st in the league.

all of our "good" RBs had 7 TD total . . . . . :sad:
and cecil sapp our FB had another 2

so this vaunted denver rushing game is all a bunch of crap because we were not getting the points we needed.

how many times were we shut out of the end zone . . . . too damn many

and if i hear one more time that they did good last year. . . .well lets just say

I CAN"T TAKE IT ANYMORE!!!!!!!!!!!!ARGH

a rookie RB will impact this dramatically more so than a rookie DT will help our rush D or the same for a S.

slick7
02-10-2008, 08:58 PM
Mind, how comfortable are you with Harris and Pears as the starting tackles for this team next year?

broncolee
02-10-2008, 08:58 PM
Funny you mention Rivers and Scouts Inc, Rivers is 22nd on Scouts Inc at the moment.

Balmer is a possible one year wonder/underachiever/contract year DT isn't he? Those are Scarlett Letters in these parts......

I mentioned Rivers because he's the best linebacker available(at least according to Scouts, Inc.). Fixing the front seven is a bigger issue than getting a running back that is only necessary if Henry is cut.

I'm not advocating for Balmer as much as I am for the front seven. If Henry is cut, I would gladly take Mendenhall or Stewart over Balmer. I would, however, take Rivers or an offensive tackle over a running back, Henry or no Henry.

MindField
02-10-2008, 09:02 PM
I think that the guys in the 1st round are talented, just they are too big to handle the type of quick blocking that we do, I think there are alot of guys in the later rounds that have just as much talent but that other teams look at as too small to fit there systems, which is why we can wait until later to pick them, because no one else is going to. If there is a guy that we really like, but that we know nobody else is going to take, then would it make sense for us to use a 1st round pick on him just because he is rated high on our boards? no. drafting aint all about drafting who you think is best, its also about knowing what everyone else thinks so you can maximize your picks at the right time.

This is another falacy of the so-called 'Broncos Philosophy' when it comes to the Draft...people say, 'The Broncos won't Draft an O-Lineman in the first round'...yet they drafted Georgia OT George Foster #20 overall....then they say, 'The Broncos would NEVER Draft a RB in the first Round!'...yet just two years ago, we know they were primed to draft Laurence Maroney before they traded up for Cutler.

The point is, no one here knows anything about what the Broncos absolutely WILL or WON'T do.

In Shanahan's years he has taken a QB in the first round, (2) WR's in Marcus Nash and Ashley Lelie, an OT in Foster, a DT in Trevor Pryce, a DE in Jarvis Moss, (3) LB's in John Mobley, Al Wilson and DJ Williams, and (2) CBs in Deltha O'Neal and Willie Middlebrooks.

stnzed
02-10-2008, 09:02 PM
I mentioned Rivers because he's the best linebacker available(at least according to Scouts, Inc.). Fixing the front seven is a bigger issue than getting a running back that is only necessary if Henry is cut.

I'm not advocating for Balmer as much as I am for the front seven. If Henry is cut, I would gladly take Mendenhall or Stewart over Balmer. I would, however, take Rivers or an offensive tackle over a running back, Henry or no Henry.


But that's the point the RB crowd is making: Why reach for Rivers/Balmer when Mendenhall is supposed to go that high?

Travis Henry is insignificant at this point......

Bronkster
02-10-2008, 09:03 PM
I completely agree with my fellow "Monder". Sure, it would be sweet to have an awesome fantasy running back. We could all draft him in our fantasy leagues and play with him in Madden...

However, there are MUCH more pressing needs right now. I would be much happier with:
Obviously- KLong, Dorsey, Ellis, Gholston
Not obvious to y'all but still obvious- Phillips, Rivers, Clady, and Connor.

Mendenhall will never single handedly take a team to the promise land. I'm sorry, but thats what he would need to do in Denver.

SBboundBRONCOS
02-10-2008, 09:09 PM
Mendenhall will never single handedly take a team to the promise land. I'm sorry, but thats what he would need to do in Denver.

and will any of those other players :coffee: :rolleyes:

however mendenhall/stewart sure has the best chance to do it

AC1
02-10-2008, 09:12 PM
I guess you have to define what 'fine' means...I know this, I do not see our running game as any better than the 2005 season when Mike Anderson was the featured back. Our running game was not good enough to take pressure off of Plummer when we needed it and get us past the Steelers.

We could debate just exactly what your statement about the NFL 'not being
a running League anymore' means, but if you think you don't absolutely need to run it down the stretch, when you could be playing in bad weather and in ther Playoffs, you could not be more wrong....and mediocre backs like Selvin Young and Trqvis henry are not goin got be the starting RB for a Super Bowl team.

...and for all of you that say, 'Well, look at the teams that have won the Super Bowls, they did not all have "great" RB's.." To that I say SO WHAT? There is more than one way to build a Championship team...so for every NY Giants, or Tampa Bay Buccaneers, or New England Patriots that did not have great running backs, I give you the Denver Broncos with Terrell Davis, the Dallas Cowboys with Emmitt Smith, the St. Louis Rams with Marshall Faulk, the Baltimore Ravens with Jamal Lewis, and the Steelers, who leaned heavily on Jerome Bettis and Willie Parker in winning theor Super Bowl...and eve the Buccaneers had 100 yard performances out of Miichael Pittman, and the New England Patriots utilized big-time perfomances by Laurence Maroney in this Playoff run, as did the NY Giants, particularly in Green Bay in frigid weather.

The problem in the AFCCG of the 2005 season was that Pittsburgh came out throwing early to get an early lead and eliminate our running game from our gameplan. They were successful because our defense collectively laid an egg that game, especially our D-line that got zero pressure on their QB. Our blitzing schemes were beautifully neutralized by Whisenhunt (that game was one of the biggest reasons for him getting a HC position).

Once we fell behind, we had neither the QB, nor the pass-protection to mount a comeback with our passing game. We trailed by so much, our very strong running game had to be dumped. It wouldn't have mattered if we had Larry Johnson in that game. We needed to be able to make a comeback with our passing game and failed. That was the reason we drafted Cutler. It was a pick aimed at the future of the team.

One of the lessons learned from that game should be how easily a running game can be taken out of the equation in the playoffs. This is especially significant to us now, because the quality of our defense will allow more teams to attack us the way Pittsburgh did.

I'm not saying a running game is unimportant. I'm just saying it is not the be-all and end-all of things, and is certainly not the reason we didn't get to the Superbowl in the 2005 season.

As for the significance of the NFL becoming more of a passing league (I don't think one should say that it isn't a running league) is that passing offenses are more successful against good defenses than they used to be. This means higher scoring games, that teams that have favored the run-game heavily have to adapt to. We have been able to survive as a terrible drop-back passing team in the past, but will not be able to in the future in a passing-favored league. It doesn't mean we abolish the zone-blocking scheme, but that we augment it with multi-dimensional players - players who can run the ZBS as effectively as lighter players, but can pass-protect better in obvious passing situations than them. This transition has already begun. Both Kuper and Holland (who will likely be our starting guards when Nalen retires and Hamilton takes his place) are larger than what we're used to (Holland who at 330 pounds has the quickness to run the ZBS, is the perfect example). Lepsis' retirement gives us the opportunity to get our next-gen player at LT. It's possible Harris may be the answer there, but Pears certainly is not (based on talent level). You've mentioned the talent level of Henry and Young. Pears is a bigger weakness at tackle than Henry or Young are at RB (and that's saying a lot). We need to bring in an elite OT who is both quick and powerful to compete with Harris at LT (with the loser taking the RT spot). A player with that kind of skill-set at OT is only available in the first-round of the draft. We should be able to get players like that for the interior OL in the middle rounds (or even FA), but OT is a key position (possibly second in importance only to the QB on offense), and elite talents in the position are snatched up quickly and never let go in FA.

We have the QB to play in the pass-favored league. We just need to make sure we give him the right protection to do so. And good protection doesn't just mean limiting the number of sacks. It means giving him enough time in the pocket to go through his progressions. An average LT might limit the number of sacks, but cause Cutler to be pressured on every throw. (In fact , this would almost be worse than having a bum at LT, because the sacks would be low, but the QB play would be hampered. This might transfer the blame from the LT to the QB.)

stnzed
02-10-2008, 09:13 PM
I think that the guys in the 1st round are talented, just they are too big to handle the type of quick blocking that we do, I think there are alot of guys in the later rounds that have just as much talent but that other teams look at as too small to fit there systems, which is why we can wait until later to pick them, because no one else is going to. If there is a guy that we really like, but that we know nobody else is going to take, then would it make sense for us to use a 1st round pick on him just because he is rated high on our boards? no. drafting aint all about drafting who you think is best, its also about knowing what everyone else thinks so you can maximize your picks at the right time.


This is mostly BS! No offense, but it's just something people say because it's been said so many freaking times that it must be true.

You cannot convince me that the top tackles in the draft over the past 15 years can't play in this system! You can't tell me that Joe Thomas can't play in this system......Walter Jones? C'mon! But if it is true, then there is something wrong with the system!

Btw, if the players you're talking about have just as much talent, they go in the 1st round, don't kid yourself. The players that Denver insists on drafting does not have the talent to go in the 1st, size is not the only reason they drop.

Denver just doesn't feel the need for the State-of-the-Art offensive lineman because to them "The System" is the real talent......

MindField
02-10-2008, 09:15 PM
Mind, how comfortable are you with Harris and Pears as the starting tackles for this team next year?

It does not matter what I think. The Broncos did not spend a third round pick on Ryan Harris because they did not think he could play. I think they view him as a good fit for what they want to do; it is only logical to assume that he will get a shot. I also think Erik Pears is viewed as a young, developing player who is in a 'make or break' year. I would also expect a veteran Free Agent or two to be brought in...and again, it would not shock me to see us take a great O-Line propsect like a Clady if he is available.

But I also agree with John Madden when he says great Running Backs make O-Lines, not vice versa.

To me, our question marks on the O-Line are only MORE of a reason to invest in a top notch running back prospect. It will just take that much more pressure off a young O-Line. Most O-lineman will tell you they like to run block more than anything else, which will only make the play-action game that much more effective, especially with a QB with a canon arm like Cutler.

I just feel the best value for the Broncos, with the biggest impact, and the best longterm investment is in a franchise-type back, which I certainly believe Jonathan Stewart to be. I am not as well versed with Rashard Mendenhall yet, but his performance against USC was pretty impressive and suggests he is a very talented player.

I will wait for the Combine to give me the speed and athletic numbers on each to determine which one I want for sure, but I want all of this RB sillyness to end, period.

chaseb13
02-10-2008, 09:22 PM
henry gets another chance. he will be on the hottest seat since brian griese but shannahan wil give him a shot. and denver has more pressing needs in the draft than runningback. if he stays healthy denver will jump back to top five in rushing. if they draft a good ot and upgrade the fb position expect top 3.

slick7
02-10-2008, 09:22 PM
It does not matter what I think. The Broncos did not spend a third round pick on Ryan Harris because they did not think he could play. I think they view him as a good fit for what they want to do; it is only logical to assume that he will get a shot. I also think Erik Pears is viewed as a young, developing player who is in a 'make or break' year. I would also expect a veteran Free Agent or two to be brought in...and again, it would not shock me to see us take a great O-Line propsect like a Clady if he is available.

But I also agree with John Madden when he says great Running Backs make O-Lines, not vice versa.

To me, our question marks on the O-Line are only MORE of a reason to invest in a top notch running back prospect. It will just take that much more pressure off a young O-Line. Most O-lineman will tell you they like to run block more than anything else, which will only make the play-action game that much more effective, especially with a QB with a canon arm like Cutler.

I just feel the best value for the Broncos, with the biggest impact, and the best longterm investment is in a franchise-type back, which I certainly believe Jonathan Stewart to be. I am not as well versed with Rashard Mendenhall yet, but his performance against USC was pretty impressive and suggests he is a very talented player.

I will wait for the Combine to give me the speed and athletic numbers on each to determine which one I want for sure, but I want all of this RB sillyness to end, period.

Fair enough.

I knew you wouldn't come back with "more comfortable than I am with Travis Henry as the starting RB."

Good post.

It does matter what you think though, otherwise I wouldn't bother coming here to read what you and others have to say about the Broncos. I'd just read newspapers and neutral websites. :salute:

AC1
02-10-2008, 09:27 PM
It makes me sick to my freakin stomach, but this is probably how Denver sees it......Denver has no use for Talented offensive lineman.

The notion that 1st or 2nd round lineman do not fit Denver's system is a myth, though, imo Chris Kuper could have been considered in the 2nd round had he not been a small school prospect......

It's getting the point where even mock drafts don't think about getting o-linemen till the fifth or sixth round, when a token player with a size-concern is tossed in. I even seem to remember reading some concern last year over why we had "wasted such a high pick" on Harris.

Correct me if I'm wrong stnzed, but wasn't the ZBS run in the early 90s by the Cowboys and the 49ers with players much larger (and much more talented) than ours? Didn't Shanahan learn the ZBS in SFO?

CTM
02-10-2008, 09:29 PM
I agree with this topic. No reason at all to go RB in the first round. Defense is a top priority. Yes I said it. I dont care if next years defensive class is better than this years. You dont base your building strategy of a team based on college kids who wont be eligible for the draft untill next year. We need to improve the front seven and add young depth at safety. RB can wait. And also if you didnt notice, we are starting to move toward a more pass oriented offense with Cutler's development. Look for us to air it out more next year. Does this mean we can't have a dominant running game? No, we just have the ability to pass more on Cutler's arm than we have with any QB since Elway. We can still run the ball but we wont have to rely upon so heavily on it as a way of success.

NVBroncfan
02-10-2008, 09:31 PM
I think that the guys in the 1st round are talented, just they are too big to handle the type of quick blocking that we do, I think there are alot of guys in the later rounds that have just as much talent but that other teams look at as too small to fit there systems, which is why we can wait until later to pick them, because no one else is going to. If there is a guy that we really like, but that we know nobody else is going to take, then would it make sense for us to use a 1st round pick on him just because he is rated high on our boards? no. drafting aint all about drafting who you think is best, its also about knowing what everyone else thinks so you can maximize your picks at the right time.

what your saying here USED to be true, but now 4 or 5 teams are running our zone blocking system that will push "our" o-lineman from the 6th-7th rounds into the 3rd-4th.

That said I'm not as scared as most of pears and ryan as our tackles this year, and think mendenhal/stewart could put us deep into the playoffs.

MindField
02-10-2008, 09:35 PM
Fair enough.

I knew you wouldn't come back with "more comfortable than I am with Travis Henry as the starting RB."

Good post.

It does matter what you think though, otherwise I wouldn't bother coming here to read what you and others have to say about the Broncos. I'd just read newspapers and neutral websites. :salute:

I appreciate that, and we would all like to think our opinon matters.:cheers:

The bottom line for me is the Broncos have alot of needs, and the most important thing is that they just a get a cornerstone player, regardless of position, that will stick and can become someone they will build their team around....to me, there are only four that fill that description at #12:

Stewart, Mendenhall, Ryan Clady or Kenny Phillips.

I would consider it to be sage drafting to trade down to say #17 or so and still be able to take Vanderbilt OT Chris Williams there, for example, and add another pick in the process...or a Keith Rivers, who I do not consider ideal, but if the Broncos are set on keeping DJ Williams in the middlle, to add a Keith Rivers to the weakside would make sense.

In the end, there are a number of ways the Broncos can play it, but they are at a critical juncture in their development, and having a successful Draft is an absolute must.

stnzed
02-10-2008, 09:46 PM
It's getting the point where even mock drafts don't think about getting o-linemen till the fifth or sixth round, when a token player with a size-concern is tossed in. I even seem to remember reading some concern last year over why we had "wasted such a high pick" on Harris.

Correct me if I'm wrong stnzed, but wasn't the ZBS run in the early 90s by the Cowboys and the 49ers with players much larger (and much more talented) than ours? Didn't Shanahan learn the ZBS in SFO?


The 49ers before Denver, yes, but their lineman were very much like Denver's......only much dirtier (Just ask Karl Mecklenburg). And yes, more talented, now that you mention it. But they were having to reach defensive lineman much smaller back then too, just like Denver's SB years.

But the DLman they have to block today are to a man far bigger and just as quick, it stands to reason that the offensive lineman have improved as such too.

My point is, the athlete in the NFL has come a long way the past 10/15 years, bigger/stronger/faster, yet the athlete that populates the Denver Broncos offensive line has stayed the same. And I'm not talking about getting 350lb lineman, just guy's that are big/strong enough to handle the short yardage/goal line problems in the 2008 NFL.

If you don't change the way you do things, you can't expect different results!

And SF is where Shanahan learned the ZBS.

As for the mock drafts, picking Denver's offensive lineman is the easiest part of their day.

If a guy has the "Try Hard Gene" but just not nearly enough size and ability, he's a Prototypical Denver Broncos offensive Lineman......

stnzed
02-10-2008, 09:54 PM
I appreciate that, and we would all like to think our opinon matters.:cheers:

The bottom line for me is the Broncos have alot of needs, and the most important thing is that they just a get a cornerstone player, regardless of position, that will stick and can become someone they will build their team around....to me, there are only four that fill that description at #12:

Stewart, Mendenhall, Ryan Clady or Kenny Phillips.

I would consider it to be sage drafting to trade down to say #17 or so and still be able to take Vanderbilt OT Chris Williams there, for example, and add another pick in the process...or a Keith Rivers, who I do not consider ideal, but if the Broncos are set on keeping DJ Williams in the middlle, to add a Keith Rivers to the weakside would make sense.

In the end, there are a number of ways the Broncos can play it, but they are at a critical juncture in their development, and having a successful Draft is an absolute must.

Whatever they decide to do at LB, they can also improve the position in free agency much easier than any other need, imo......

KWHIT97
02-10-2008, 10:18 PM
WHY??????

I could live with Phillips, but why draft a RB? I'd even be okay with trading down to get a DT or OL later in the first round as long as we can get some more picks with it. What is wrong with Henry and Young? Did you even read what I posted?

You're absolutely right, we should jump on a guy like Sam Baker or Chris Williams (who both grade out in the bottom half of the 1st round), just to fill a need!!!
This would not only be idiotic but I think the last straw with Shanahan!!!

The bottom line is there are alot of 2nd and 3rd, HECK maybe even 4th round Offensive and Defensive Tackles in this draft and there are only 4 elite RB prospects (McFadden, Stewart, Mendenhall, and Jones), it is all about VALUE, and RB is the only way to go at 12, unless MAYBE Ryan Clady or Jake Long is there which is highly unlikely!

The last thing I want to say is DO NOT EVER EVER EVER compare Travis Henry to the likes of Larry Johnson and Steven Jackson, he has never carried a full load anywhere he has been and gets hurt way to often, I question his conditioning and commitment to the game. He's pushing 30 and maybe has 1 or 2 good years left in him so why not replace him now!!!

So based on your philosophy I will do a mock draft for you, tell me what you think, these are the guys that will likely be available where we pick and if we draft by need instead of BPA this is something along the lines of what we will be stuck with;
rd. 1- OT Sam Baker (about 15 picks too high) terrible value!!!
rd. 2- DT Frank Okam (around 2 rounds too high) " "
and so on, you get the point!

I will personally guarantee that a 4th round OT like Oniel Cousins or Duane Brown will be just as good as a guy like Williams or Baker.

BOTTOM LINE, while you are entitled to your opinion, your point sucks!!!

Broncosfreak_56
02-10-2008, 10:21 PM
Minnesota is a good example of why you can never have too many good runningbacks.

stnzed
02-10-2008, 10:22 PM
Chris Williams is looking like a top15 pick right now......

broncolee
02-10-2008, 10:59 PM
But that's the point the RB crowd is making: Why reach for Rivers/Balmer when Mendenhall is supposed to go that high?

Travis Henry is insignificant at this point......

Henry is not insignificant until he is cut. That's what all the Mendenhall and Stewart lovers fail to understand. The Broncos are working on restructuring Henry's contract. If he stays, it's because they want him to be the starter and share time with Young. It takes away the need to draft a running back in the first round. If you keep Henry and want to give Young 15 to 20 touches per game, why would you draft a running back in the first round, if you're the Denver Broncos? With Henry on the team, a running back would be a wasted pick. You either have a first round running back that's behind Henry and Young or you just sent a bad message to Henry that you're already looking to replace him after you just worked out a way to keep him. In the second case, you better hope Henry doesn't have a Plummer-esque reaction to the rookie looking over his shoulder.

I'm not jumping on the Mendenhall/Stewart bandwagon until Henry is cut.:fight:

SBboundBRONCOS
02-10-2008, 11:08 PM
Minnesota is a good example of why you can never have too many good runningbacks.

that and also what a great RB can do for your team


yes i know they have a great line but that team is completely different than last year with the same line but a different RB, just look they went from top 10 pick to a game or two away from the playoffs.

i mean i dont understand how people say offense is set, we were 21 in points scored and 28 in points given up. neither is good and both need help, the best way to do that is to trade down pick up a Rb in the first (improves RZ scoring and scoring all together) the take a DT in the 2nd (sims, laws, bryant) all just as good as any first rounder after dorsey and ellis. and hopefully in the process of trading down pick up a 3rd rounder to get a solid LB prospect:rockon:

that would be ideal for me :salute:

Ravage!!!
02-11-2008, 12:18 AM
Its interesting that so many think we need to spend our first round picks on OL....

Look at a couple of the better OLs in the NFL... the Patriots and the Colts.

Patriots: Light-2nd, Mankins-1st (32ndoverall), Koppen-5th, Neal (UDFA), Kaczur-3rd

Colts: Diem-4th, Dylan-4th, C-UDFA, Scott-5th, Ugoh-2nd

BroncoKazuki
02-11-2008, 01:14 AM
I respect your Opinion but I also think your dead wrong on using the leap frog strategy. You don't go Defense Defense Defense Defense every year unless you got someone like Rex Gorssman,as your QB because really... with a QB like that bonehead its just a waste to get top talent Offensive weapons.

the smart money is to leap frog and play the wait game. If the Defense is good this year .. Draft Defense. If the Defense is medicore at places you need but great in fixing that Offense... Draft Offense.... repeat each year.


I agree with this topic. No reason at all to go RB in the first round. Defense is a top priority. Yes I said it. I dont care if next years defensive class is better than this years. You dont base your building strategy of a team based on college kids who wont be eligible for the draft untill next year. We need to improve the front seven and add young depth at safety. RB can wait. And also if you didnt notice, we are starting to move toward a more pass oriented offense with Cutler's development. Look for us to air it out more next year. Does this mean we can't have a dominant running game? No, we just have the ability to pass more on Cutler's arm than we have with any QB since Elway. We can still run the ball but we wont have to rely upon so heavily on it as a way of success.

See your quote and raise you mine.


There’s only one way to draft this year and that is Draft through Value. Meaning if the Value isnt there then Don’t Draft there, or if the player in question is worth the level you picking from don’t draft him. If the player you wanted is too high and it will cost you... Don’t go Up and draft him.

Simple concept, now with that being said from where at the 12 spot may only be Offensive Personnel.

Since in the Free Agent Market we addressed some crippling issues (namely Safety and OLB) with our 12th we can address another (DT) and fix something that has been on Shanahan’s mind (RB) now in his press conference he hinted, not tipped Hinted on some aspects namely the run game, something Denver is known for is our dominant run game, So with that being said to everyone’s hatred or disgust look for Shanahan to pull the trigger on a 1st round RB.

“Wait why is he going to do that we’ve got Henry?”

Well since this questions is basically answering those people who will post “we will not draft an RB until Henry is cut” its quite simple. Why Did we Draft Jay Cutler? If you can answer that you’ve just discredited your own thought. People on the boards (Plummer Apologist) for the most part thought it was stupid for Drafting Jay because we had a winning QB. The clearer thinking man would think, “there’s no way Jake can get us to the SB let alone keep up his performance at this level without falling over his own weight, its just a matter of time.” Truth be told that Jake fell under his own weight and the pressure during the 06 season. Now we got Jay who needs a legit RB to perform at the next level.
The same thing with Jake will not happen to Henry in fact drafting an RB will help Henry. It will lighten his load by sharing the touches. We’ve seen what Henry can do in 4 games until he got hurt now limit him to ½ the carries and see him carry that length through 8 games.

VA BroncosFan
02-11-2008, 10:34 AM
You're absolutely right, we should jump on a guy like Sam Baker or Chris Williams (who both grade out in the bottom half of the 1st round), just to fill a need!!!
This would not only be idiotic but I think the last straw with Shanahan!!!

The bottom line is there are alot of 2nd and 3rd, HECK maybe even 4th round Offensive and Defensive Tackles in this draft and there are only 4 elite RB prospects (McFadden, Stewart, Mendenhall, and Jones), it is all about VALUE, and RB is the only way to go at 12, unless MAYBE Ryan Clady or Jake Long is there which is highly unlikely!

The last thing I want to say is DO NOT EVER EVER EVER compare Travis Henry to the likes of Larry Johnson and Steven Jackson, he has never carried a full load anywhere he has been and gets hurt way to often, I question his conditioning and commitment to the game. He's pushing 30 and maybe has 1 or 2 good years left in him so why not replace him now!!!

So based on your philosophy I will do a mock draft for you, tell me what you think, these are the guys that will likely be available where we pick and if we draft by need instead of BPA this is something along the lines of what we will be stuck with;
rd. 1- OT Sam Baker (about 15 picks too high) terrible value!!!
rd. 2- DT Frank Okam (around 2 rounds too high) " "
and so on, you get the point!

I will personally guarantee that a 4th round OT like Oniel Cousins or Duane Brown will be just as good as a guy like Williams or Baker.

BOTTOM LINE, while you are entitled to your opinion, your point sucks!!!


Throwing out names right now is ridiculous. February's Mock drafts are never right, lets wait until about May before even throwing names into the equation, because it is pointless. All I am saying is that we have much more pressing needs than runningback right now. The games are won & lost in the trenches. We need to solidify our offensive and defensive lines, they have a trickle down effect on everything else we do. Our running game had a sub par year for our standards, but what few others are recognizing is that it is due to our battered offensive line.

I compared Larry Johnson & Steven Jackson's stats to Henry's because they ALSO had injury plagued offensive lines and their stats dropped tremendously for it.

Our offensive line is old, slowing and battered. We have a couple of plugs in a leaking dam right now at tackles.

It sounds like you guys would rather "look good and lose than look bad and win". Sorry, had to throw the "white men can't jump" line in there.

KWHIT97
02-11-2008, 12:37 PM
Throwing out names right now is ridiculous. February's Mock drafts are never right, lets wait until about May before even throwing names into the equation, because it is pointless. All I am saying is that we have much more pressing needs than runningback right now. The games are won & lost in the trenches. We need to solidify our offensive and defensive lines, they have a trickle down effect on everything else we do. Our running game had a sub par year for our standards, but what few others are recognizing is that it is due to our battered offensive line.

I compared Larry Johnson & Steven Jackson's stats to Henry's because they ALSO had injury plagued offensive lines and their stats dropped tremendously for it.

Our offensive line is old, slowing and battered. We have a couple of plugs in a leaking dam right now at tackles.

It sounds like you guys would rather "look good and lose than look bad and win". Sorry, had to throw the "white men can't jump" line in there.

Why throw names out there in May, the draft will be over.
We had some injuries to our line last year and if you really want to get technical about it we had such a bad year running the ball because A. we didn't have a consistent RB, B. our defense constantly had us playing from behind and they could not get off the field.

I belive that the key to winning nowadays in the NFL is controlling the clock, a great RB will help do this.
I agree that we need one or 2 pieces added to our O-Line, but why address it at 12 when there is no value there.
We can sign RT Jordan Gross, draft another Tackle in the 4th round and let Harris and Pears battle it out at LT, boom our O-Line is fixed. Gross may be a little pricy, but well worth it!
Any rookie that we bring in will take at lest 2 years to develop, when was the last time you saw Denver draft an O-Linemen and start him right away and they play well, uuuuummmmm, NEVER!

Ravage!!!
02-11-2008, 12:56 PM
I said this in the OTHER thread made by VA about the very same thing.

But why do we feel we need to use our 1st round pick on a OLman? Rarely are OLman worth that top 10 pick, and although we are 12, do we really think there is a OLman that would make a huge impact? I know there is one that many have their hopes for, but do we think he'll make it?

You can't just look at the position, but value as well.

Lets look at two of the top OL's in the league... Colts and Patriots:

COLTS: Diem-4th, Dylan-4th, Saturday-UDFA, Scott-5th, Ugoh-2nd

Patriots: Light-2nd, Mankins-1st, Koppen-5th, Neal-UDFA, Kaczur-3rd

SanDiego: McNeil-2nd, Dielman-UDFA, Hardwick-3rd, Goff-FA, Clary-6th

THE ONLY 1st round pick in any of these OL's is Mankins, and he was taken 32nd overall... not top 12.

slick7
02-11-2008, 03:40 PM
If you take a T at 12 and he turns out to be as good as Walter Jones, Ogden, Boselli, Munoz etc, then it's an outstanding pick. You never know though, he could turn out like Foster.

With a QB like Cutler, it's a risk I'd be willing to take.

I can't believe anyone would be opposed to taking a T or a RB at 12 in this years draft.

stnzed
02-11-2008, 07:23 PM
Henry is not insignificant until he is cut. That's what all the Mendenhall and Stewart lovers fail to understand. The Broncos are working on restructuring Henry's contract. If he stays, it's because they want him to be the starter and share time with Young. It takes away the need to draft a running back in the first round. If you keep Henry and want to give Young 15 to 20 touches per game, why would you draft a running back in the first round, if you're the Denver Broncos? With Henry on the team, a running back would be a wasted pick. You either have a first round running back that's behind Henry and Young or you just sent a bad message to Henry that you're already looking to replace him after you just worked out a way to keep him. In the second case, you better hope Henry doesn't have a Plummer-esque reaction to the rookie looking over his shoulder.

I'm not jumping on the Mendenhall/Stewart bandwagon until Henry is cut.:fight:

Who cares how Henry would react to a 1st round RB?

Henry will be in Denver for no more than one more year, he is the very definition of "Insignificant".

The only significance he has is that he IS the main reason he WILL be replaced......

broncolee
02-11-2008, 07:59 PM
Who cares how Henry would react to a 1st round RB?

Henry will be in Denver for no more than one more year, he is the very definition of "Insignificant".
The only significance he has is that he IS the main reason he WILL be replaced......

You keep thinking that.;):rolleyes:

Like I said, I'm not jumping on the Mendenhall/Stewart bandwagon until Henry is cut.

lancane
02-11-2008, 08:09 PM
You keep thinking that.;):rolleyes:

Like I said, I'm not jumping on the Mendenhall/Stewart bandwagon until Henry is cut.

Question is would you, even if he was cut jump on one of those bandwagons? I do not think you would Lee, I think you would be one of the others claiming a latter round back is just good enough. That is not a cut down or anything, just an observation and if that is how you do feel...then really it does not matter. You are all for other needs, which is very understandable.

;)

broncolee
02-12-2008, 06:46 AM
Question is would you, even if he was cut jump on one of those bandwagons? I do not think you would Lee, I think you would be one of the others claiming a latter round back is just good enough. That is not a cut down or anything, just an observation and if that is how you do feel...then really it does not matter. You are all for other needs, which is very understandable.

;)

I would jump on one of those bandwagons. I've said it before. As a matter of fact, I've said more than once that Laurence Maroney would have been a Bronco if it hadn't been for Plummer stinking it up in the 2005 AFCCG. I remember being excited about the prospect of getting a first round talent at running back, only to have my hopes dashed by Plummer's failure(I'm happy that we have Cutler, but Jake and the team might have been better served by getting Maroney). I've never been a proponent of the idea that getting a player at any position(other than kicker or punter) in a later round is better than getting one in the early rounds.

My argument is, especially with Henry still on the team, the offensive line is a higher priority than running back. I probably wouldn't jump completely on the running back bandwagon if Henry is cut, but I would at least be happy with the idea of getting Mendenhall or Stewart. Henry or no Henry, I would still think the offensive line is a higher priority because protecting Jay should be the bigger concern.

lancane
02-12-2008, 10:18 AM
I would jump on one of those bandwagons. I've said it before. As a matter of fact, I've said more than once that Laurence Maroney would have been a Bronco if it hadn't been for Plummer stinking it up in the 2005 AFCCG. I remember being excited about the prospect of getting a first round talent at running back, only to have my hopes dashed by Plummer's failure(I'm happy that we have Cutler, but Jake and the team might have been better served by getting Maroney). I've never been a proponent of the idea that getting a player at any position(other than kicker or punter) in a later round is better than getting one in the early rounds.

My argument is, especially with Henry still on the team, the offensive line is a higher priority than running back. I probably wouldn't jump completely on the running back bandwagon if Henry is cut, but I would at least be happy with the idea of getting Mendenhall or Stewart. Henry or no Henry, I would still think the offensive line is a higher priority because protecting Jay should be the bigger concern.

Unfortunatley I wanted both Cutler and Maroney, so I was happy that we got Cutler...it is always harder to find the 'franchise quarterback' though I really liked Maroney as well. And I do see your argument Lee, yes the offensive line needs help and I will be the first to admit that, but I also look at it from a different view, one being that Dennison really is a crap line coach. But also from the fact that the two who really fit our system in the first round will be gone and even if Clady falls to us the question is will he make an impact? I do not believe so, while I think he has good tangibles and overall ability I think Clady is a bit rawer then the rest of those available in the first and his talent is the one thing which has him going so high. Williams is not from the zone system, and I think you have to give him a year to actually make an impact if not longer...but he is a valued prospect. But also could Shanahan be 'gun shy' after the Foster ordeal? He might just be, I would almost positively count out receiver in round one, but tackle I think is an option - just not one he will take. We have officially have three tackles in Harris, Pears and Kuper...so I think we will add some tackles through free agency and likely in the draft, but also we have only really four guards so I also expect us to get some guards added as well. We have five centers...so I think that position is covered...lol.

I just am not sure the value is there to jump on a tackle compared to halfback, but I also agree that an offensive line prospect would help us as well, so I am not against the idea either, but Mendenhall in my opinion is just to good a prospect to overlook with our pick.

MindField
02-13-2008, 08:55 PM
Question is would you, even if he was cut jump on one of those bandwagons? I do not think you would Lee, I think you would be one of the others claiming a latter round back is just good enough. That is not a cut down or anything, just an observation and if that is how you do feel...then really it does not matter. You are all for other needs, which is very understandable.

;)

I can guarantee you, all of these 'critics' would be on the Mendenhall/Stewart bandwagon as soon as they had their first 100 yards game!

BRONCOS_OWN_U16
02-13-2008, 10:44 PM
were going to draft a rb in the first round and your going to like it.

lottaphil
02-13-2008, 11:16 PM
It was less than a year ago that we brought Henry in. Everyone said, finally we have a franchise back, we're set at RB now, etc... In four games he led the league in rushing then his season was lost to injury. He showed how strong of a runner he was and can be. So what if he has eight kids, so what if he was exposed to second hand smoke? The league found him innocent. So what's the problem? This is about football, not whether he is suitable to date your daughter! The fact is we have holes everywhere and RB may be one of our deepest positions right now. We need DT's, Oline help, a safety to replace Lynch next year, a #2 WR, at least 2 solid LB's, KR/PR, a punter... The list could go on. I don't understand how people can justify drafting a 1st round RB when there may be players like Kenny Phillips, Keith Rivers, or Ryan Clady that could help us now and gain experience. Why draft a RB who may not even start this year. Why not draft a 1st round RB next year and plug him in like Minnesota did with Adrian Peterson. Elite RB's don't need two years to develop anymore, use the RB corp we have this year (which is more than serviceable) and go after a RB next year if Henry doesn't pan out.

lancane
02-14-2008, 12:08 AM
It was less than a year ago that we brought Henry in. Everyone said, finally we have a franchise back, we're set at RB now, etc... In four games he led the league in rushing then his season was lost to injury. He showed how strong of a runner he was and can be. So what if he has eight kids, so what if he was exposed to second hand smoke? The league found him innocent. So what's the problem? This is about football, not whether he is suitable to date your daughter! The fact is we have holes everywhere and RB may be one of our deepest positions right now. We need DT's, Oline help, a safety to replace Lynch next year, a #2 WR, at least 2 solid LB's, KR/PR, a punter... The list could go on. I don't understand how people can justify drafting a 1st round RB when there may be players like Kenny Phillips, Keith Rivers, or Ryan Clady that could help us now and gain experience. Why draft a RB who may not even start this year. Why not draft a 1st round RB next year and plug him in like Minnesota did with Adrian Peterson. Elite RB's don't need two years to develop anymore, use the RB corp we have this year (which is more than serviceable) and go after a RB next year if Henry doesn't pan out.

Were you a member last year? And even if so, then you would have read that half the fans thought he was not worth the ink on his contract. If you could go back and read, it was after he was signed I even stated that it would backfire because he is injury proned and likely to be in trouble for drugs again. All which was a fact and proven to be likely, before signing here, he had only finished one complete season out of six; now seven, he has barely started over 65% of the games he could have anywhere, meaning that other teams lost faith in him as well and benched him! Buffalo actually went out and drafted a top back because they had no faith in him, Tennessee he was replaced simply because he was undependable. So you are stretching what has been said, not all of us ever believed him that good. And so what he led the league for the first four or five games, he has always done that, been all hot till he is busted for another drug problem or benched because of health reasons or simply because the team soon knew he was incapable of being the back they needed.

The drug infraction suit this season was won strictly by default, the NFL openly admitted it handled somethings wrong and that was the reason they overturned the ruling...and I for one believe them, we are one of the biggest pro sport leagues in drug testing and updating their banned illegal substance lists.

A top all that, he is not a good halfback, he is mediocre. Young and Hall can not carry the main part of the load...so we leave it to an injury proned mediocre back? I do not think so, because that will hurt us more then having a bad defense.

As for the Rivers, Phillips and Clady issue, I really do not think Denver has a shot at any of those three, first off Phillips will go near the twenty something range if he goes in the first, I do not see us reaching for him at #12 and I will flat out tell you there are some compitent if not better overall safeties later in the draft for us. Rivers if he is there at 11th overall will be a Buffalo Bill, but the chances are not likely because he will likely be gone, plus some question if he is even a top 15 prospect, Clady will be a hot commodity come the draft because even if K.C. does not take him, Detroit or Carolina may trade up for him but New England, Cincinnati and Baltimore also need an offensive tackle, and I doubt Baltimore takes a quarterback unless Ryan falls.

The chances are high that we take a running back and I will flat out say if it happens I will be as happy as the day we took Cutler because we need to be able to compete and the 21st overall scoring offense will not compete and Henry is not the back to risk a season on either!

AllEyezOnZach27
02-14-2008, 01:45 AM
Were you a member last year? And even if so, then you would have read that half the fans thought he was not worth the ink on his contract. If you could go back and read, it was after he was signed I even stated that it would backfire because he is injury proned and likely to be in trouble for drugs again. All which was a fact and proven to be likely, before signing here, he had only finished one complete season out of six; now seven, he has barely started over 65% of the games he could have anywhere, meaning that other teams lost faith in him as well and benched him! Buffalo actually went out and drafted a top back because they had no faith in him, Tennessee he was replaced simply because he was undependable. So you are stretching what has been said, not all of us ever believed him that good. And so what he led the league for the first four or five games, he has always done that, been all hot till he is busted for another drug problem or benched because of health reasons or simply because the team soon knew he was incapable of being the back they needed.

The drug infraction suit this season was won strictly by default, the NFL openly admitted it handled somethings wrong and that was the reason they overturned the ruling...and I for one believe them, we are one of the biggest pro sport leagues in drug testing and updating their banned illegal substance lists.

A top all that, he is not a good halfback, he is mediocre. Young and Hall can not carry the main part of the load...so we leave it to an injury proned mediocre back? I do not think so, because that will hurt us more then having a bad defense.

As for the Rivers, Phillips and Clady issue, I really do not think Denver has a shot at any of those three, first off Phillips will go near the twenty something range if he goes in the first, I do not see us reaching for him at #12 and I will flat out tell you there are some compitent if not better overall safeties later in the draft for us. Rivers if he is there at 11th overall will be a Buffalo Bill, but the chances are not likely because he will likely be gone, plus some question if he is even a top 15 prospect, Clady will be a hot commodity come the draft because even if K.C. does not take him, Detroit or Carolina may trade up for him but New England, Cincinnati and Baltimore also need an offensive tackle, and I doubt Baltimore takes a quarterback unless Ryan falls.

The chances are high that we take a running back and I will flat out say if it happens I will be as happy as the day we took Cutler because we need to be able to compete and the 21st overall scoring offense will not compete and Henry is not the back to risk a season on either!

:clap: Wow! took the words right out of my mouth! CP's to you! If everyone would understand that if you want to build a winning franchise you need to draft based upon value not on need. Just look at last year when we traded up to get Moss. Shanny did this because he thought we were only a player away from the SB. Look what happened...We ended up 7-9 and lost a 3rd round pick in the process. Im not saying I dont like Moss because I do but we drafted him based on purely on need and that is it.

Ok I will admit that I am on the Mendenhall bandwagon but not only because he is an amazing RB but he is great value at #12. On Mike Mayock's draft bored he has Mendenhall above McFadden, meaning that he has the potential to be a top 10-15 pick. I believe that after the combine he will really show what he can do.

Now if we go OT I would not be mad at all but I hope we dont make another Foster selection and have a high draft pick (which Denver rarely ever has) go to waste. High drafted OL in our system have soooo much more of a bust rate compared to a high round RB. If everyone here wants to just plug another RB in or go RBC that will get us to the 1st maybe 2nd round of the playoffs but no further. This team is based off of the run and wont change as long as Shanny is a the helm.

Now just let me ask all of you one last thing...Would you rather have 3 RB's in Henry, Young and Hall who are all serviceable and would get the job done or a RB like we used to have (TD/Portis) that strike fear into the opposing defenses?

Having a feared RB's makes Cutler soooo much more dangerous in this offense. He can run the play-action, bootleg and throw one of the best deep balls in the NFL.

Value, value value!!!:salute:

BroncoKazuki
02-14-2008, 02:34 AM
Now if we go OT I would not be mad at all but I hope we dont make another Foster selection and have a high draft pick (which Denver rarely ever has) go to waste. High drafted OL in our system have soooo much more of a bust rate compared to a high round RB. If everyone here wants to just plug another RB in or go RBC that will get us to the 1st maybe 2nd round of the playoffs but no further. This team is based off of the run and wont change as long as Shanny is a the helm.



I had to catch you on this its not that OL have a heavy bust. its more they tend to bust on us because of Dennison as our O-line coach. If we had a better O-line coach I doubt we'll be talking about getting a new O-line personnel but if we had to Clady would be someone we should go after.

Shanny has to go out and find a real O-line coach because really, we got the personnel right now that can use some more but we need the right coach to teach the talent we bring in, and have. :rockon:

Yet getting an RB at the position we are at is a value not a need. We need an RB upgrade and the value of such an RB is there so why not take it, cease it and dont look back.

VA BroncosFan
02-21-2008, 04:48 PM
Broncos | Team restructures Henry's contract
Thu, 21 Feb 2008 09:33:05 -0800

Bill Williamson, of The Denver Post, reports the Denver Broncos agreed with RB Travis Henry on a restructured deal Thursday, Feb. 21. Terms of the deal were not disclosed.

.......

Ha!!!!

As I said. No RB in the 1st Round.

CLADY baby. CLADY.

lancane
02-21-2008, 05:06 PM
Broncos | Team restructures Henry's contract
Thu, 21 Feb 2008 09:33:05 -0800

Bill Williamson, of The Denver Post, reports the Denver Broncos agreed with RB Travis Henry on a restructured deal Thursday, Feb. 21. Terms of the deal were not disclosed.

.......

Ha!!!!

As I said. No RB in the 1st Round.

CLADY baby. CLADY.

Draft has not happened yet...lol. And if Shanahan does take one you will feel sort of shallow, but there is also a very high possiblity that we will not draft a lineman either...so I guess we can all be dissapointed!

;)

VA BroncosFan
02-21-2008, 08:52 PM
I'm not sure we will take an OL either. Honestly I just don't think Clady will be there. All the buzz in Baltimore is that they are gonna nab him to take over for Ogden.

As long as we don't use the first round pick on a RB, I'll be okay with it. We have so many needs in much more dire straights than RB.
........

lancane
02-21-2008, 08:59 PM
I'm not sure we will take an OL either. Honestly I just don't think Clady will be there. All the buzz in Baltimore is that they are gonna nab him to take over for Ogden.

As long as we don't use the first round pick on a RB, I'll be okay with it. We have so many needs in much more dire straights than RB.
........

We are still planning to add a halfback, Adam Schefter and Bill Williamson have reported that though Henry re-worked his contract Denver is still interested in bringing in another tailback, the question is in free agency or the draft? More likely in the draft and before the end of the 4th round.

Gr3yStreet
02-21-2008, 09:06 PM
We are still planning to add a halfback, Adam Schefter and Bill Williamson have reported that though Henry re-worked his contract Denver is still interested in bringing in another tailback, the question is in free agency or the draft? More likely in the draft and before the end of the 4th round.

Perhaps, but a RB in the first seems unlikely, though admittedly not impossible, now.

lancane
02-21-2008, 09:13 PM
Perhaps, but a RB in the first seems unlikely, though admittedly not impossible, now.

Well as some have asked me, does this really eliminate it as a possibility? No it doesn't, in fact it gave us 6 million to work with and guaranteed Henry less money overall, 10 million less then he originally had agreed to, which also makes him less a burden when we do cut him. It seems unlikely, but I will not overlook it as a possibility until free agency is said and done with...

stnzed
02-21-2008, 09:25 PM
Keeping Henry is cheaper than cutting/trading him, but that doesn't mean Denver can count on him.

I've thought all along that Denver should keep/restructure Henry, and that drafting a franchise RB is definitely an option.

Drafting a RB in the 1st round is still an option, especially if Denver doesn't like what's left of the defensive options.

But, this reaffirms my feeling that if Denver doesn't draft a franchise RB, they shouldn't draft a RB at all.

Get another free agent RB out of the yellow pages, don't waste a pick on Matt Forte......

BroncoKazuki
02-21-2008, 11:49 PM
Keeping Henry is cheaper than cutting/trading him, but that doesn't mean Denver can count on him.

I've thought all along that Denver should keep/restructure Henry, and that drafting a franchise RB is definitely an option.

Drafting a RB in the 1st round is still an option, especially if Denver doesn't like what's left of the defensive options.

But, this reaffirms my feeling that if Denver doesn't draft a franchise RB, they shouldn't draft a RB at all.

Get another free agent RB out of the yellow pages, don't waste a pick on Matt Forte......

I knew someone thought on the same wavelenght as I did,

if we dont address RB in the 1st round (just so happens Franchise RB's settle in the first). Its best off Denver doesnt even look at a back at all in the draft.

If thats true then the best alternative would be to spend a pick on the Best FB in the draft.

Yet its very wishful for anyone to think Shanahan can be the "RB whisperer" all the 'gems' we've found in the 5th 6th 7th and later in the 4th rounds have all be fodder and gone in the league.

The 2nd round has not been so kind for Shanahan as well, he's only batting .500 in that area when it comes to RB's

Honestly, if a RB falls on Shanahan's head at the 12th spot he'll be stupid if he doesnt take him. Even if an OT falls on that same spot he'll be stupid not to take him but OT is unlikely as shanahan has already been "once bitten twice shy"

neago
02-22-2008, 10:57 AM
Maybe you all are all a little oxygen starved up there in Colorado, and your brain not thinking right, but as far as taking a running back in the first round, thats ridiculous. We think a little clearer in virginia, I guess, because looking at last years games, RUNNING BACK WAS NOT OUR PROBLEM!!!!!! I cant believe it. Theres not going to be a great running back at that posistion anyways, and what good is a running back if he has no line to block for him. So of course lets, draft a running back, we only got like four of them now, and u know, just spent a lot of money on Henry. How about drafting what we need instead of what you guys want. Good thing you all dont run this team, beacause I might be looking for a new team to like. You people must be related to Dan Snyder. Even if there is not a great offensive or defensive linemen available then, maybe we could trade that pick and get compensated nicely for it, versus just waisting it on a highly overpaid running . There are plenty of running backs in the later rounds that got more to prove on the playing field instead of being first round choice and geting a major blockbuster deal. So how about shopping the pick or gettting a linebacker (san fran- patrick willis-last year) (led the league in tackles) or a (joe Thomas)(who helped make derek anderson look like Peyton Manning) or a safety( brandon merriweather)(new england- all he did is help take them to the best record in football history) so dont tell me that there is not any first round talent worth taking other than qb's and rb's and wr's. You need to wake up or we will be sitting here blogging about the same crap next year.
Joshua from VA petersburg

BroncoKazuki
02-22-2008, 12:06 PM
Maybe you all are all a little oxygen starved up there in Colorado, and your brain not thinking right, but as far as taking a running back in the first round, thats ridiculous. We think a little clearer in virginia, I guess, because looking at last years games, RUNNING BACK WAS NOT OUR PROBLEM!!!!!! I cant believe it. Theres not going to be a great running back at that posistion anyways, and what good is a running back if he has no line to block for him. So of course lets, draft a running back, we only got like four of them now, and u know, just spent a lot of money on Henry. How about drafting what we need instead of what you guys want. Good thing you all dont run this team, beacause I might be looking for a new team to like. You people must be related to Dan Snyder. Even if there is not a great offensive or defensive linemen available then, maybe we could trade that pick and get compensated nicely for it, versus just waisting it on a highly overpaid running . There are plenty of running backs in the later rounds that got more to prove on the playing field instead of being first round choice and geting a major blockbuster deal. So how about shopping the pick or gettting a linebacker (san fran- patrick willis-last year) (led the league in tackles) or a (joe Thomas)(who helped make derek anderson look like Peyton Manning) or a safety( brandon merriweather)(new england- all he did is help take them to the best record in football history) so dont tell me that there is not any first round talent worth taking other than qb's and rb's and wr's. You need to wake up or we will be sitting here blogging about the same crap next year.
Joshua from VA petersburg


21st Scoring offense and 9th rushing Offense does not compute. usually if were the 9th rushing offense were at least 13-18th scoring Offense. Yet we werent so yea... have fun keep thinking our run game is not a problem :coffee:

VA BroncosFan
02-22-2008, 01:40 PM
Maybe you all are all a little oxygen starved up there in Colorado, and your brain not thinking right, but as far as taking a running back in the first round, thats ridiculous. We think a little clearer in virginia, I guess, because looking at last years games, RUNNING BACK WAS NOT OUR PROBLEM!!!!!! I cant believe it. Theres not going to be a great running back at that posistion anyways, and what good is a running back if he has no line to block for him. So of course lets, draft a running back, we only got like four of them now, and u know, just spent a lot of money on Henry. How about drafting what we need instead of what you guys want. Good thing you all dont run this team, beacause I might be looking for a new team to like. You people must be related to Dan Snyder. Even if there is not a great offensive or defensive linemen available then, maybe we could trade that pick and get compensated nicely for it, versus just waisting it on a highly overpaid running . There are plenty of running backs in the later rounds that got more to prove on the playing field instead of being first round choice and geting a major blockbuster deal. So how about shopping the pick or gettting a linebacker (san fran- patrick willis-last year) (led the league in tackles) or a (joe Thomas)(who helped make derek anderson look like Peyton Manning) or a safety( brandon merriweather)(new england- all he did is help take them to the best record in football history) so dont tell me that there is not any first round talent worth taking other than qb's and rb's and wr's. You need to wake up or we will be sitting here blogging about the same crap next year.
Joshua from VA petersburg

.............................

Pretty funny stuff. OT CLADY - If he is there, TAKE HIM!!!!!!!! I don't care if Stewart or Mendenhal is still there. We need help at OL now. Lets see what Cutler can do with 4 seconds to throw the ball. Lets see what Henry can do when healthy and a hole to cut back through. Why not? Might be fun right.

neago
02-22-2008, 02:54 PM
21st Scoring offense and 9th rushing Offense does not compute. usually if were the 9th rushing offense were at least 13-18th scoring Offense. Yet we werent so yea... have fun keep thinking our run game is not a problem :coffee:


Dude, you must not know alot oabout football because those stats you just throw at me and then your following comment proves it. We lost our starting running back and still finished 9th in rushing offense. And when you have no offensive line and no good goaline linesmen, how do you expect to score in the redzone. And as far as the scoring offense stat you throw at me, look at that closely. Thats not just a rushing stat, but a offensive stat in a whole. Which means that our passing game was not that great either. What does rushing and pass offense have in common. Same offensive line to protect running back or quarterback. Dont know if you have ever had a 300 lb linemen coming for you but it is a lot easier to get away when you have someone protecting you. Also, I dont know about you, but I got tired of watching Justin Fargas and Kevin Jones from Detroit looking like League MVP's when they played of because of our defensive line and linebackers. So go ahead and get your running back in the first round that you will pay millions for and watch your million dollar quarterback and running back lay on their back 90 percent of the plays while the other team is rushing for 160+ yards a game. Then come on these message boards and let loose about how we need a new coach. By that time, you will probably be experienced enough to take over for Shanahan.. Yeah right. Joshua From Petersburg, VA

lancane
02-22-2008, 03:04 PM
Dude, you must not know alot oabout football because those stats you just throw at me and then your following comment proves it. We lost our starting running back and still finished 9th in rushing offense. And when you have no offensive line and no good goaline linesmen, how do you expect to score in the redzone. And as far as the scoring offense stat you throw at me, look at that closely. Thats not just a rushing stat, but a offensive stat in a whole. Which means that our passing game was not that great either. What does rushing and pass offense have in common. Same offensive line to protect running back or quarterback. Dont know if you have ever had a 300 lb linemen coming for you but it is a lot easier to get away when you have someone protecting you. Also, I dont know about you, but I got tired of watching Justin Fargas and Kevin Jones from Detroit looking like League MVP's when they played of because of our defensive line and linebackers. So go ahead and get your running back in the first round that you will pay millions for and watch your million dollar quarterback and running back lay on their back 90 percent of the plays while the other team is rushing for 160+ yards a game. Then come on these message boards and let loose about how we need a new coach. By that time, you will probably be experienced enough to take over for Shanahan.. Yeah right. Joshua From Petersburg, VA

Wow...tactless noobs, and what he said is true and his opinion! Maybe not yours but swallow it slowly because that is what this board is for...we rushed with so many different players that Young nor Henry were the only ones running the ball, we had receivers rushing sometimes as well, take away the extra yards from trick plays or the quarterback scrambling and we down right were not that good at rushing...

:coffee:

BroncoKazuki
02-22-2008, 03:27 PM
Dude, you must not know alot oabout football because those stats you just throw at me and then your following comment proves it. We lost our starting running back and still finished 9th in rushing offense. And when you have no offensive line and no good goaline linesmen, how do you expect to score in the redzone. And as far as the scoring offense stat you throw at me, look at that closely. Thats not just a rushing stat, but a offensive stat in a whole. Which means that our passing game was not that great either. What does rushing and pass offense have in common. Same offensive line to protect running back or quarterback. Dont know if you have ever had a 300 lb linemen coming for you but it is a lot easier to get away when you have someone protecting you. Also, I dont know about you, but I got tired of watching Justin Fargas and Kevin Jones from Detroit looking like League MVP's when they played of because of our defensive line and linebackers. So go ahead and get your running back in the first round that you will pay millions for and watch your million dollar quarterback and running back lay on their back 90 percent of the plays while the other team is rushing for 160+ yards a game. Then come on these message boards and let loose about how we need a new coach. By that time, you will probably be experienced enough to take over for Shanahan.. Yeah right. Joshua From Petersburg, VA

I'll break it down for you Nicely, and make it easier to digest.

21st Scoring Offense = 20 point per average
11th in Combine Yards = 346.3ypa
13th in Passing yards = 224ypa
9th rushing yards = 122.3ypa

Total 1st downs = 305
FIRST DOWNS (Rushing-passing-by penalty)= 96 - 187 - 22
THIRD DOWN CONVERSIONS= 80/198
FOURTH DOWN CONVERSIONS= 7/22
TOTAL OFFENSIVE YARDS= 5541
OFFENSE (Plays-Average Yards)= 976 - 5.7
TOTAL RUSHING YARDS = 1957
RUSHING (Plays-Average Yards)= 429 - 4.6
TOTAL PASSING YARDS= 3584
PASSING (Comp-Att-Int-Avg)= 326 - 515 - 15 - 7.3
SACKS= 33
FIELD GOALS = 27/31
TOUCHDOWNS = 34 = Break Down (Rushing-Passing-Returns-Defensive) = 10 - 21 - 1 - 2
TIME OF POSSESSION = 29:34 .

in red are some things you should look at,
Jay has 20 TD's 14 int on this season. Ramsey has 1TD 1 INT so add that up thats 21 TD's scoring in the air.

Rushing,
T. Henry 4 TD's after he got injured Disapeared
S.Young 1 TD nothing after that
A. Hall 2 TD's did slightly better then Young still need more production.
Jay Cutler 1 TD QB scramble play
C. Sapp 2 TD's did good as well for a FB but needed more production.

Now take Cutler's TD out and out of 4 backs a total of 9 TD's and a total of 1900 yards now that's really unbalanced, I mean LT gets what 1400 yards and 15 TD's. Wow if you look at that its comes clear that our run game flat out sucks.

When we get a great run game, Sacks go down, look at Farv's sack rate from when he didnt have a run game up to now (2007 regular season) run games help quarterbacks, they also help the O-line as its easier to run block then it is to pass block.

Also if you look 27/31 FG attempts meaning that every time we martched into the red zone and stalled we had Elam bail us with 3's because 3 points is better then noting. Espically when you got a piss poor run game, exposing a weak O-line that could benefit from a better RB, a better O-line coach or both.

So yea you can say I dont follow football, but I'm using stats to back up my claim vs you trying to personally attack me :coffee: