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CTM
02-13-2008, 08:56 PM
It seemes that a lot of people want to deal our first rounder this year. The next question becomes who do you think we can deal it to and who would give us the best deal?

There are the obvious TB and Detroit suggestions in moving back but I have an interesting idea. Seattle. Yes I said it Seattle. They are picking at 25 this year and it seems they may want to snatch up a top RB for the replacement of the oft injured Alexander. They would want to jump ahead of the Bears and Cardinals and Texans who will definatley look at RB. Those of you who want RB in the first round may want to close your ears. We could trade back to 25 and also receive Seattle's 3rd round this year AND their 2009 1st rounder. That seems like it could possibly work. We would probably lose out on Phillips and some of the OT and RB we would be targeting but there is the possibility of some great talent sliding to 25. I personally would prefer Connor but I would also love to add a DT maybe Balmer if he falls that far or a OT to solidify the position. And all you RB mainiacs out there, let me tell you there is great depth at the position to find a stud in round 2 at 44. A Chris Johnson or Ray Rice or Jamal Charles type.

Just so you know the big sell point in this is picking up an extra 1st rounder next year as well as the much needed 3rd rounder this year. And as Ive been constently told, next years draft will have better elite prospects in the first round.

Who do you think will most likely be the team we look to deal with? What do you think about Seattle?

BroncosTX77
02-13-2008, 09:08 PM
Nice thought, but I just don't see Seattle giving up that much when they can go RB in 2nd or 3rd. Where they are they can grab Felix Jones or whichever other back falls or they can also grab a TE which is a pressing need for them too.

jlhawkins9
02-13-2008, 09:10 PM
The Seattle trade could work, but i would prefer to trade with Bal and give up a 4th this year and a 3rd next year and draft Ellis! If he is gone, then maybe Detroit and we receive Rogers.

ReleaseTheBeast7
02-13-2008, 09:38 PM
If they want Mendenhall bad enough, this may work.

Dub-DeuceKnight
02-13-2008, 10:48 PM
If I was Seattle I wouldn't do it, personally I'd rather trade up and get Ellis or trade back slightly with the Lions and pick up Rogers, anyway to get a DT possible. If we trade back though we will most certainly lose out on an OT which is another obvious need, but at 15 we could pick up Phillips.

CTM
02-13-2008, 11:30 PM
If I was Seattle I wouldn't do it, personally I'd rather trade up and get Ellis or trade back slightly with the Lions and pick up Rogers, anyway to get a DT possible. If we trade back though we will most certainly lose out on an OT which is another obvious need, but at 15 we could pick up Phillips.

I would be fine with the Detroit scenario. And as for Seattle it depends on how highly they value Stewart or Mendenhal because their run game last season was almost non existent. If they view these players as must haves then a trade could be possible. I would love to have a couple of first rounders next year to fill the holes we miss this year because were obviously not going to be able to fix everything this year. :coffee:

BroncoKazuki
02-14-2008, 02:07 AM
It seemes that a lot of people want to deal our first rounder this year. The next question becomes who do you think we can deal it to and who would give us the best deal?

There are the obvious TB and Detroit suggestions in moving back but I have an interesting idea. Seattle. Yes I said it Seattle. They are picking at 25 this year and it seems they may want to snatch up a top RB for the replacement of the oft injured Alexander. They would want to jump ahead of the Bears and Cardinals and Texans who will definatley look at RB. Those of you who want RB in the first round may want to close your ears. We could trade back to 25 and also receive Seattle's 3rd round this year AND their 2009 1st rounder. That seems like it could possibly work. We would probably lose out on Phillips and some of the OT and RB we would be targeting but there is the possibility of some great talent sliding to 25. I personally would prefer Connor but I would also love to add a DT maybe Balmer if he falls that far or a OT to solidify the position. And all you RB mainiacs out there, let me tell you there is great depth at the position to find a stud in round 2 at 44. A Chris Johnson or Ray Rice or Jamal Charles type.

Just so you know the big sell point in this is picking up an extra 1st rounder next year as well as the much needed 3rd rounder this year. And as Ive been constently told, next years draft will have better elite prospects in the first round.

Who do you think will most likely be the team we look to deal with? What do you think about Seattle?


Denver's Pick 12th.. 1200 pts

Seattles Pick 25th... 750 pts

Difference 450 points need to make up

Seattle would have to give us their. 2nd round (320pts) 3rd round (140 pts) as well which totals 460 points.


Then we would have to give up a 6th pick next year to them to make up the rest of the total.

We would be moving all the way out of the top half Missing Mendenhall/Stewart/Jones/Williams/Clady. Then going OL/DT/WR instead with Safety in the 3rd.

Yes I just said it I would rather go after an O-linemen(Anthony Collins,Kansas) over Phillips, grab someone like Moore at DT then getting Bennett. Then Drafting someone like Demps with our 3rd round pick.

Thats if we wouldn't go RB in the first. But doing so, Denver should not look at any RB's this year at all. That means no Choice, no Forte, No Keven Smith, or whoever else in the lower rounds and just use this draft to rebuild the lines and LB corps. Then we wait 4 years until we can draft an RB again.


Yea this works only if Denver does not target any RB at all in any of the rounds, because if we draft an RB in the later rounds.

I mean lets say an OLB in Jordon Dizon vs an RB in Patrick Allen, since we didnt get the best of the best in RB talent it would be good for Denver to pass on Allen and draft Dizon because we already got 3 backs why need another back at the current level of the ones we have. It makes no sense.

So in final going with Seattle would be a big mistake, even if it nets us another day 1 round 2 draft pick. Its no use in addressing RB espically when you pass up the best talent RB wise in the draft.. :coffee:

Its just smarter in my Honest Opinion that if we draft down and miss the best talent at a position we should avoid that position.

Now the Detroit trade is more of a better trade as were still in shot of either Clady or Willams and/or Mendenhall and Stewart. Plus we'll fix Offense and Defense at the same time so guess which plan I would go for ;)

Bowie Man
02-14-2008, 07:54 AM
If I was Seattle I wouldn't do it, personally I'd rather trade up and get Ellis or trade back slightly with the Lions and pick up Rogers, anyway to get a DT possible. If we trade back though we will most certainly lose out on an OT which is another obvious need, but at 15 we could pick up Phillips.

I agree completely about Ellis or Detroit, but I think Kenny Philips could fall past 15 easily. I also like Harris and Pears so I don't think that OT is pressing enough for a 1st round pick on one.:salute:

bjoli198
02-14-2008, 08:25 AM
Denver's Pick 12th.. 1200 pts

Seattles Pick 25th... 750 pts

Difference 450 points need to make up

Seattle would have to give us their. 2nd round (320pts) 3rd round (140 pts) as well which totals 460 points.


Then we would have to give up a 6th pick next year to them to make up the rest of the total.



I think itīs more likely to get their 2nd or 3rd round next year.

CTM
02-14-2008, 08:34 AM
Denver's Pick 12th.. 1200 pts

Seattles Pick 25th... 750 pts

Difference 450 points need to make up

Seattle would have to give us their. 2nd round (320pts) 3rd round (140 pts) as well which totals 460 points.


Then we would have to give up a 6th pick next year to them to make up the rest of the total.

We would be moving all the way out of the top half Missing Mendenhall/Stewart/Jones/Williams/Clady. Then going OL/DT/WR instead with Safety in the 3rd.

Yes I just said it I would rather go after an O-linemen(Anthony Collins,Kansas) over Phillips, grab someone like Moore at DT then getting Bennett. Then Drafting someone like Demps with our 3rd round pick.

Thats if we wouldn't go RB in the first. But doing so, Denver should not look at any RB's this year at all. That means no Choice, no Forte, No Keven Smith, or whoever else in the lower rounds and just use this draft to rebuild the lines and LB corps. Then we wait 4 years until we can draft an RB again.


Yea this works only if Denver does not target any RB at all in any of the rounds, because if we draft an RB in the later rounds.

I mean lets say an OLB in Jordon Dizon vs an RB in Patrick Allen, since we didnt get the best of the best in RB talent it would be good for Denver to pass on Allen and draft Dizon because we already got 3 backs why need another back at the current level of the ones we have. It makes no sense.

So in final going with Seattle would be a big mistake, even if it nets us another day 1 round 2 draft pick. Its no use in addressing RB espically when you pass up the best talent RB wise in the draft.. :coffee:

Its just smarter in my Honest Opinion that if we draft down and miss the best talent at a position we should avoid that position.

Now the Detroit trade is more of a better trade as were still in shot of either Clady or Willams and/or Mendenhall and Stewart. Plus we'll fix Offense and Defense at the same time so guess which plan I would go for ;)

See my whole thing is that we have so many holes to fill that we just have to pick up more 2nd and 3rd round picks. True we may lose out on elite talent like Mendenhal and Philips and Clady but there are still solid prospects in round 2 and 3. By the time you get to round 5 the team has to stop looking to fill in needs and just take the best available and hope they strike gold but in rounds 1-4 the talent is still good enough to draft need and we have a ton of needs.
About the value points, I did look at the chart before I posted this but I sort of guestimated that a 1st round next year might be the correct value. Do you know how it works for the value of future picks?:confused:

I see your point about either taking RB in the 1st round or not at all. While I dont agree with going RB in the first, if we end up going in that direction, I would still be pumped about getting an elite RB in our backfield.

BroncosTX77
02-14-2008, 08:40 AM
See my whole thing is that we have so many holes to fill that we just have to pick up more 2nd and 3rd round picks. True we may lose out on elite talent like Mendenhal and Philips and Clady but there are still solid prospects in round 2 and 3. By the time you get to round 5 the team has to stop looking to fill in needs and just take the best available and hope they strike gold but in rounds 1-4 the talent is still good enough to draft need and we have a ton of needs.
About the value points, I did look at the chart before I posted this but I sort of guestimated that a 1st round next year might be the correct value. Do you know how it works for the value of future picks?:confused:

I see your point about either taking RB in the 1st round or not at all. While I dont agree with going RB in the first, if we end up going in that direction, I would still be pumped about getting an elite RB in our backfield.

But you need money to pay all those 2nd and 3rd draft picks....Not every player drafted on the previous Day 1 of the draft is a for sure Star. That is why teams have scouting departments so as to get lower round picks that fit your system and can contribute that wont cost alot and if they become stars GREAT, and if not oh well you don't lose much.


:salute:

CTM
02-14-2008, 10:30 AM
But you need money to pay all those 2nd and 3rd draft picks....Not every player drafted on the previous Day 1 of the draft is a for sure Star. That is why teams have scouting departments so as to get lower round picks that fit your system and can contribute that wont cost alot and if they become stars GREAT, and if not oh well you don't lose much.


:salute:

This is true and I'm not diminishing the importance of second day draft picks but those are the guys that usually takes a year or two before they are able to contribute in the system. Mind you they might be great, look at Marshall, Marshall didnt play much in his first year and then blossomed this year. But I guess its the balance of taking positions that you need fixed right away in the first few rounds and taking positions that need improvement but not necessarily right now in the later rounds. :cheers:

BroncoKazuki
02-14-2008, 03:20 PM
I think itīs more likely to get their 2nd or 3rd round next year.

Correct and thats what people dont see.


We wont get Seattles picks this year if we trade out of the 12th spot. We'll get them next year when the Offense talent is low and the Defensive talent is high. :coffee:

honestly Draft value this year and draft need next year.

KWHIT97
02-15-2008, 08:27 AM
The Seattle trade could work, but i would prefer to trade with Bal and give up a 4th this year and a 3rd next year and draft Ellis! If he is gone, then maybe Detroit and we receive Rogers.

That is brilliant, let's give up everything we have for a DT, if a trade resembling this did go down, I will become a Browns fan (I live in Ohio)

spcdlee02
02-15-2008, 05:40 PM
I'm really torn on this one. Seattle specifically, I don't see that trade happening. I don't really see them giving up much this year considering it's Holmgrens last year. New coach next year means new system. Given that I don't see them giving up future draft picks knowing this.
Now to the arguement of trading down, I'm very much torn on this issue because a good arguement can be made in trading down and staying put. One thing is certain though, and it's something we can all agree on, the Draft/FA is critical this year more so than any other year. Shanny's philosophy of reloading proved to be inadequate. So given that, rebuilding through young FA talent and good draft talent is more critcal now than ever. Considering the offense we are on the verge of having, and yes I do see us being and offensive powerhouse next year, the biggest thing that has to be considered is who can we get where in the draft and what are our most pressing needs. DT, LB, Safety are all obvious. I think that if we can trade down in the first round and pick up Day 1 picks in the process and still fill our most pressing needs with QUALITY talent, then I think we should do it. BUT if there is a marked drop in the talent of who we could pick up to fill these needs by going down in the first round and not getting the quality we so desperatly need, we need to stay put and look ahead and keep building this thing through next years draft.

Interceptor
02-15-2008, 07:17 PM
It is time to change paying big money to free agents. They are usually not the quick fix, esp. with more than just one or two holes to fill. I don't want the history with drugs, injury, the law, or the in-laws. Often they take time to adjust to a new system too.

High first rounders? No guarantee except they are expensive, unproven in the NFL, take time to develop and as in the case of our own Jarvis Moss, drafted to be Bates next Jason Taylor and now he might not even fit into the next new defensive scheme. Wasted bucks? Maybe, glad its not my money on the line.

So how about stocking up on more of those 2nd, 3rd and 4th rounders. Let them fight it out in camps, practice squads and special teams for a year and learn the Broncos System. Then the ones that the coaches know from 1st hand experience, that are going to contribute to the team, rework their contracts. and lock them up for the prime years of their career.

This is the time to trade down this year and spend the money on Marshall, Dumerville and Scheffler. Then next year be looking at Thomas, Crowder, Harris etc.

Of course there are exceptions, a disastrous season with a top 5 pick true blue chipper, but I think we must always be adding to the core of home-grown Broncos.

stnzed
02-15-2008, 08:45 PM
I think itīs more likely to get their 2nd or 3rd round next year.


Correct and thats what people dont see.


We wont get Seattles picks this year if we trade out of the 12th spot. We'll get them next year when the Offense talent is low and the Defensive talent is high. :coffee:

honestly Draft value this year and draft need next year.

Then why do it? Why would Denver want next years draft picks?

The Broncos need help now, and if Seattle isn't willing to trade this years picks, then they can pound sand!

The value attached to the Seahawks picks in 09 most likely won't be the same as this year, making the possibility of getting screwed a reality.

Any team that wants the 12th pick better be willing to give what the Broncos want......

stnzed
02-15-2008, 08:50 PM
It is time to change paying big money to free agents. They are usually not the quick fix, esp. with more than just one or two holes to fill. I don't want the history with drugs, injury, the law, or the in-laws. Often they take time to adjust to a new system too.

High first rounders? No guarantee except they are expensive, unproven in the NFL, take time to develop and as in the case of our own Jarvis Moss, drafted to be Bates next Jason Taylor and now he might not even fit into the next new defensive scheme. Wasted bucks? Maybe, glad its not my money on the line.

So how about stocking up on more of those 2nd, 3rd and 4th rounders. Let them fight it out in camps, practice squads and special teams for a year and learn the Broncos System. Then the ones that the coaches know from 1st hand experience, that are going to contribute to the team, rework their contracts. and lock them up for the prime years of their career.

This is the time to trade down this year and spend the money on Marshall, Dumerville and Scheffler. Then next year be looking at Thomas, Crowder, Harris etc.

Of course there are exceptions, a disastrous season with a top 5 pick true blue chipper, but I think we must always be adding to the core of home-grown Broncos.

Tennessee wanted to draft Moss too, why would they want Moss if he only fits in Bates system (How did Taylor manage to win Defensive MVP in 06 if he only fits Bates system?)?

Poor Jarvis, the only system he fits is no longer employed in Denver.

Jarvis Moss was drafted to play DE, not be somebodies counterfeit.

As far as trade partners are concerned, Denver should have anybody within the Vikings at 17 on speed dial. They should be looking for a 3rd pick, but also should consider veterans like Rogers and Antrell Rolle (There's your stinkin safety)......

CTM
02-15-2008, 09:16 PM
Look I was just looking at it logically and it seemed the Seahawks have the motive to trade up and get a top running back making them a logical possibility. It is also being later than TB or Detroit we would get the best package of picks. We need to start filling the holes in our roster this year and expand on it next year. Just a bit of history for everyone. As of now there are 4 RB projected to go in the first round. The last time 4 RB's were taken was 2006 when Bush, Maroney, Williams, who was clasified as one of the cant miss prospects along with Bush, and Addai were taken. Of them only Addai has had a 1000 yard season. For all you 1st round RB hopefuls it is rare that a rookie RB will take over the season for a team. Obviously Peterson did last year but there is no one like Peterson in this year's draft. I'm not saying it would be a bad idea I just hear people saying that this would solve a ton of problems and yet you see all those 1st rounders who haven't had a tremendous impact yet. They probably will but it takes time. So if you want a RB in the 1st go ahead but its not a guarentee that they have a huge impact on their teams in their rookie year.

stnzed
02-15-2008, 09:23 PM
Look I was just looking at it logically and it seemed the Seahawks have the motive to trade up and get a top running back making them a logical possibility. It is also being later than TB or Detroit we would get the best package of picks. We need to start filling the holes in our roster this year and expand on it next year. Just a bit of history for everyone. As of now there are 4 RB projected to go in the first round. The last time 4 RB's were taken was 2006 when Bush, Maroney, Williams, who was clasified as one of the cant miss prospects along with Bush, and Addai were taken. Of them only Addai has had a 1000 yard season. For all you 1st round RB hopefuls it is rare that a rookie RB will take over the season for a team. Obviously Peterson did last year but there is no one like Peterson in this year's draft. I'm not saying it would be a bad idea I just hear people saying that this would solve a ton of problems and yet you see all those 1st rounders who haven't had a tremendous impact yet. They probably will but it takes time. So if you want a RB in the 1st go ahead but its not a guarentee that they have a huge impact on their teams in their rookie year.

But considering the Broncos get Bush/Maroney type production from undrafted rookie RB's, if you can think of any player that would make a bigger impact at 12 than a RB, then you let us know......

Max Power
02-15-2008, 09:38 PM
But considering the Broncos get Bush/Maroney type production from undrafted rookie RB's, if you can think of any player that would make a bigger impact at 12 than a RB, then you let us know......

Why take a RB at 12 if that's the case then? To get a slightly better, more productive starting tailback? Viewed that way, it's not really much of an impact, because we could just get some guy off the street for similar production.

I think a LB could have a bigger impact, even reaching for Connor or Rivers at #12. Although I prefer Curtis Lofton in round 2 if he's still available.

stnzed
02-15-2008, 09:46 PM
Why take a RB at 12 if that's the case then? To get a slightly better, more productive starting tailback? Viewed that way, it's not really much of an impact, because we could just get some guy off the street for similar production.

I think a LB could have a bigger impact, even reaching for Connor or Rivers at #12. Although I prefer Curtis Lofton in round 2 if he's still available.


Normally I would agree, but this RB carousel got old about 3 or 4 Reuben Droughns' ago, and RB is the one position that Denver always gets production. Making it a safe pick!

That's why I say get a franchise back in round 1, or don't draft one at all!

Btw, right now, it doesn't look like Connor is a value at 12, and Rivers has lost a lot of ground between now and this time last year when getting him at 12 was a pipe dream. Is he worth the 12th pick?

I'm all for improving the defense, but it just doesn't look like a good year to have finished with the 12th pick.

That's typical Broncos luck, lately, if they didn't have bad luck, they'd have no luck at all......

Bronco_Rob
02-15-2008, 11:23 PM
If I was the GM (which I'm obviously not) I'd trade our first round pick for either

1. Chad Johnson, 4th round pick for Javon Walker, 1st Round Pick
2. Roy Williams, Shaun Rogers for Javon Walker, 1st Round Pick
3. Trade Down to the 20's and get an extra 3rd, 4th, 6th round pick

won't we be receiving a 7th round pick this year for Jake Plummer and a 5th round pick for Gerrard Warren?