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View Full Version : Does Leinart really suck that bad? And Young hasn't looked that great, either.



Javalon
08-23-2008, 07:35 PM
We all know that the Big 3 quarterbacks from the 2006 draft will always be compared, and so that's what I'm doing now.

I know it's just preseason but I'm stunned at how horrible Matt Leinart is looking in the Cards - Raiders game. He just threw his 3rd pick and it wasn't anything the Raiders were doing to cause it. His throws have just sucked and they've been horrible decisions.

I've only seen high(low)lights of Young and he hasn't looked so hot, either. Anybody been paying closer attention to him?

While this is "only" preseason, usually that means the quarterbacks look even better than normal because the defenses aren't doing anything complex (and neither are the offenses). With that in mind, I have to say there is no doubt in my mind that we lucked out by having Leinart and Young taken before we traded up for Cutler. We made the best decision by default. :beer:

LbloodOjunkieG
08-23-2008, 07:38 PM
I was never a fan of Leinart or Young. Warner needs to be starting for the Cards. Leinart is ruining Fitzgeralds and Boldins numbers. They both are monsters, and Warner can get them both 100 receptions a year.

jdubv724
08-23-2008, 07:42 PM
Where is jcdavey:confused:? He is the expert on Matt Leinert

RealBronco
08-23-2008, 07:44 PM
why is Leinhart even starting over Warner?

giving him a second chance? or they just don't care because it's pre-season?

i mean....when an old, "slow" veteran like Warner can still outplay you...uh....yeah, you suck that bad...

i'd say.

-Rod-
08-23-2008, 07:56 PM
Cutler is owning both of them.

JaysusCutler
08-23-2008, 07:58 PM
I used to love Leinart, but damn, Ramsey > Leinart. (Not really)

Ravage!!!
08-23-2008, 08:04 PM
With that in mind, I have to say there is no doubt in my mind that we lucked out by having Leinart and Young taken before we traded up for Cutler. We made the best decision by default. :beer:

I don't think I agree with this part, Jav. I dont' think it was be default. I think Shanahan wanted Cutler, and that was it. We DID have Plummer on the roster.... so I dont' think it was a situation where we were just going to take ANY QB we could get. I think Cutler was THE VERY QB that Shanahan wanted, and probably the only QB in the draft he wanted. Its not a coincidence that Cutler fits the mold of Elway and Young, and shanahan traded up to get him.

I think we got lucky that the Titans and Cards were foolish enough to pass on him, which enabled us to move up and get the guy we wanted.....but I don't think it was luck that he was the guy we drafted.

Javalon
08-23-2008, 08:13 PM
I don't think I agree with this part, Jav. I dont' think it was be default. I think Shanahan wanted Cutler, and that was it. We DID have Plummer on the roster.... so I dont' think it was a situation where we were just going to take ANY QB we could get. I think Cutler was THE VERY QB that Shanahan wanted, and probably the only QB in the draft he wanted. Its not a coincidence that Cutler fits the mold of Elway and Young, and shanahan traded up to get him.

I think we got lucky that the Titans and Cards were foolish enough to pass on him, which enabled us to move up and get the guy we wanted.....but I don't think it was luck that he was the guy we drafted.

Well, I'd like to think that he was our first choice but we'll really never know. Shanahan would never say if it wasn't the case because people in his position never second-guess the guys they did draft. Kind of like we heard that Cutler was Fisher's first choice but after they picked Young he would never admit that.

Anyway, I was basically just saying that we didn't even have a choice if we were wanting to replace Plummer. We heard rumors that we tried to trade into the top 10 without success and then Cutler was all that was left to us at #11. So, if he really was the guy we had targeted, we got lucky that we couldn't trade up any higher than we did. :)

antipas
08-23-2008, 08:47 PM
I used to love Leinart, but damn, Ramsey > Leinart. (Not really)

Man, thats sayin' something!:D

broooks77
08-23-2008, 09:18 PM
I was pissed when i saw that we got Cutler! i thought Plummer was great! and now after watching cutler I was so happy that we got him and i am 1000% sure that he is and will continue to be better then Young and Leinart:salute:

LarryDean
08-23-2008, 09:24 PM
As fans we dont get to scout players but I was thinking how in the world would any team draft Leinart ....Hoping for Carson Palmer

Looks at the Cardinals Regular Season Record (all-time) : 464-667-39 well that answers that....

I have no problems with Vince Young even though he does not have the passing skills he is a leader ...

I honestly think that Mike Heimerdinger will cost Jeff Fisher his job...

Ravage!!!
08-23-2008, 09:41 PM
As fans we dont get to scout players but I was thinking how in the world would any team draft Leinart ....Hoping for Carson Palmer

Looks at the Cardinals Regular Season Record (all-time) : 464-667-39 well that answers that....

I have no problems with Vince Young even though he does not have the passing skills he is a leader ...

I honestly think that Mike Heimerdinger will cost Jeff Fisher his job...

I don't. Jeff Fisher is about as secure as Mike Shanahan. But I think Vince Young sees his last year as a starter this season, then they hire him as a cheerleader.

Vince Young is just absolutely horrible.

Wolverine83
08-24-2008, 01:36 AM
Well as of right now Matt Leinart = Alex Smith until he proves otherwise.

Vince Young, kind of a different story. I don't think you can compare him to other QB's very easily because his running ability. I know what style of QB I prefer, and I'm glad we have Cutler instead of him, BUT, I wouldn't at all say Vince Young is a bust or anywhere near it. Quarterback doesn't only have to be about passing, and I don't think running QB's will ever 're-define' the position, I could see Vince being a very good QB in a totally different way than Cutler.

Right now Leinart seems like all hollywood-hype, all USC system, no substance. Like another poster said, if Kurt Warner STILL looks better than him in camp, there is a problem.

muse
08-24-2008, 05:35 AM
Well, I'd like to think that he was our first choice but we'll really never know. Shanahan would never say if it wasn't the case because people in his position never second-guess the guys they did draft. Kind of like we heard that Cutler was Fisher's first choice but after they picked Young he would never admit that.

Anyway, I was basically just saying that we didn't even have a choice if we were wanting to replace Plummer. We heard rumors that we tried to trade into the top 10 without success and then Cutler was all that was left to us at #11. So, if he really was the guy we had targeted, we got lucky that we couldn't trade up any higher than we did. :)

I believe that Heimerdinger wanted Young - I know that we were reported to have been very interested in him. Smokescreen? Quite possibly, but the fact that Heimerdinger chose to leave Denver for Tennessee leads me to believe that he had a disagreement there with Shanny.

Complete speculation, obviously, but that's how I saw it.

saltybuggah
08-24-2008, 08:49 AM
We all know that the Big 3 quarterbacks from the 2006 draft will always be compared, and so that's what I'm doing now.

I know it's just preseason but I'm stunned at how horrible Matt Leinart is looking in the Cards - Raiders game. He just threw his 3rd pick and it wasn't anything the Raiders were doing to cause it. His throws have just sucked and they've been horrible decisions.

I've only seen high(low)lights of Young and he hasn't looked so hot, either. Anybody been paying closer attention to him?

While this is "only" preseason, usually that means the quarterbacks look even better than normal because the defenses aren't doing anything complex (and neither are the offenses). With that in mind, I have to say there is no doubt in my mind that we lucked out by having Leinart and Young taken before we traded up for Cutler. We made the best decision by default. :beer:

in watching the highlights of the raiders cards game espn analyst stated that warner will probably start opening day....

they went on to say that leinart jsut looked awful and doesnt have any arm strength whatsoever... in watching him throw ducks around the field it looks as if he hasnt been doing much in the offseason to better his career...

imo if warner does start, which im thinking he will, leinart's confidence is going to go straight down the tubes and from there we will all see what leinart is made out of... he can take the benching and grow or forever fall into the role of the 2nd string for ever more...

Spyder
08-24-2008, 08:58 AM
Matt Leinart was the product of an overly talented USC Trojans team who's system was designed almost 100% towards his strengths. It was great coaching really, he never came across as the Carson Palmer type. He was just an average player who lucked out to be in the position he was in.

Vince Young on the other hand, eh he did a decent enough job his rookie season but after last year when he wasn't nearly as effective on a consistent basis with his legs as he was the year before. Teams forced him to beat them with his arm and he proved, not only last season, but continues to do it thus far in preseason that he's just never going to beat anyone that way.

LbloodOjunkieG
08-24-2008, 12:18 PM
Well look what we have here
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3551359

Source: Cardinals set to name QB Warner as starter

By Chris Mortensen
ESPN.com
(Archive)

Updated: August 24, 2008, 11:58 AM ET


The Arizona Cardinals are expected to name Kurt Warner as the team's starting quarterback, a team source said Sunday.

Matt Leinart's poor performance Saturday night against the Oakland Raiders probably sealed the decision.

Leinart had three interceptions in the first half and completed just 4 of 12 passes for 24 yards. His passer rating was 2.8. The Cardinals won the game 24-0.

The source said Leinart's training-camp performance has been uneven, and the Cardinals are concerned about his arm strength and consistency.


ESPN.com's Mike Sando writes about all things NFC West in his division blog.


After the game, coach Ken Whisenhunt said Leinart was still in the running for the Cardinals' starting job.

"I know Matt's down because he didn't play as well as he would have liked," Whisenhunt said. "This competition, being pushed by Kurt, has made Matt tougher. It's one of the things you have to be as a quarterback."

Javalon
08-24-2008, 12:39 PM
Definitely no surprise there.

It wasn't just poor throws by Leinart but also poor decisions. And for the most part it wasn't the Raiders doing anything special, it was just Leinart looking bad.

While I always thought Cutler was a better fit for the Broncos' offense, I still didn't expect Leinart to completely fall on his face with the Cardinals. I almost feel bad for the guy.

Starbroncs
08-24-2008, 02:42 PM
Leinart has looked good at times but apparently in the oakland game it was really ugly (didnt watch it). Young had an OK rookie year, people overhype him because of his winning % (can we finally do away with this stupid qb stat?) but that team wins with its running game and defense. Just look at his stats last year, he did TERRIBLE and went like 7 weeks straight without a td pass.

BRONCOS_OWN_U16
08-24-2008, 02:53 PM
id still rather have leinart. i mean he was a winner in USC. atleast thats what jcdavey told me.

LarryDean
08-24-2008, 02:57 PM
Vince Young is just absolutely horrible.

Well I'm glad the Broncos drafted Cutler and Fisher should never be compared to Shanahan ....

TheJackal
08-26-2008, 08:16 PM
After I saw Leinart in the CHI game his rookie year I though he was on his way. I guess not... :coffee:

jhildebrand
08-26-2008, 08:34 PM
Matt Leinart was the product of an overly talented USC Trojans team who's system was designed almost 100% towards his strengths. It was great coaching really, he never came across as the Carson Palmer type. He was just an average player who lucked out to be in the position he was in.



You know it is funny you mention that. Carson Palmer really wasn't on the map of college QB's and then he di-sected the Buffs. If it was the system for Leinart, how was it not the system for Palmer? They both were very impressive.

I am not sure the pressure of being the face of a franchise that is in constant chaos and dis-array was not too much. Not to mention they have not been winners. Both Denver and TN have had a lot of success. Not to mention stable organizations.

Booty was not half the QB Leinart was and he could end up taking over in MN within a couple of seasons depending on how TJ comes along.

Spyder
08-27-2008, 01:48 AM
You know it is funny you mention that. Carson Palmer really wasn't on the map of college QB's and then he di-sected the Buffs. If it was the system for Leinart, how was it not the system for Palmer? They both were very impressive.

Carson Palmer for USC is kind of what like most CU Buffs fans are hoping that Darrell Scott will be. He was like an anchor to get the school going again. Most people don't realize it but up until we got Pete Carroll and Carson Palmer, we were nothing for a big part of the 90's. Carson had NFL type talent, that was easily viewable when he played here, it was just a matter of when it would shine. So it finally came out against the Buffaloes? Great, it had to start somewhere.

Carson Palmer was a prototypical QB. He had size, an arm, vision and an all around great feel for the game. The only thing Leinart really had were size and vision because never once did USC really expect the guy to go deep. He just didn't have the arm for it. Carson did that a lot. Most of the things Carson did were on his own, he never had half the talent we'd later have in 2004/2005 etc.

Carson Palmer tore up the Buffs, Oregon, Cal, UCLA etc etc without a Reggie Bush, Lendale White, Mike Williams and well you should get the picture. None of those guys went on to be much in the pros, atleast up until this point, but it was still a gold mine of talent that Leinart had to work with compared to Carson Palmer and yet most of the USC records were owned by Carson until Leinart broke the majority of them, not to mention a lot of the Pac-10 records, by virtue of having such a great team around him.

TNTitan
08-28-2008, 09:30 PM
As fans we dont get to scout players but I was thinking how in the world would any team draft Leinart ....Hoping for Carson Palmer

Looks at the Cardinals Regular Season Record (all-time) : 464-667-39 well that answers that....

I have no problems with Vince Young even though he does not have the passing skills he is a leader ...

I honestly think that Mike Heimerdinger will cost Jeff Fisher his job...

Jeffs not going anywhere, and remember he has already been here once.

TNTitan
08-28-2008, 09:32 PM
Well I'm glad the Broncos drafted Cutler and Fisher should never be compared to Shanahan ....

I agree, jeff is a great coach

Javalon
08-28-2008, 09:40 PM
I agree, jeff is a great coach

I agree. I really like Fisher as a coach. And it certainly wasn't his fault his team had those huge salary cap problems a few years back.

Plus, he and Shanahan are buds so he's okay in my book. :D

RedRaptor
08-28-2008, 09:42 PM
Carson Palmer for USC is kind of what like most CU Buffs fans are hoping that Darrell Scott will be. He was like an anchor to get the school going again. Most people don't realize it but up until we got Pete Carroll and Carson Palmer, we were nothing for a big part of the 90's. Carson had NFL type talent, that was easily viewable when he played here, it was just a matter of when it would shine. So it finally came out against the Buffaloes? Great, it had to start somewhere.

Carson Palmer was a prototypical QB. He had size, an arm, vision and an all around great feel for the game. The only thing Leinart really had were size and vision because never once did USC really expect the guy to go deep. He just didn't have the arm for it. Carson did that a lot. Most of the things Carson did were on his own, he never had half the talent we'd later have in 2004/2005 etc.

Carson Palmer tore up the Buffs, Oregon, Cal, UCLA etc etc without a Reggie Bush, Lendale White, Mike Williams and well you should get the picture. None of those guys went on to be much in the pros, atleast up until this point, but it was still a gold mine of talent that Leinart had to work with compared to Carson Palmer and yet most of the USC records were owned by Carson until Leinart broke the majority of them, not to mention a lot of the Pac-10 records, by virtue of having such a great team around him.

My Iowa Hawkeyes can attest to that :( we had a pretty darn good team that he ripped apart in the 2003 Orange Bowl

Spice 1
08-29-2008, 09:58 AM
Well I am grate full for VY. Fisher was very high on Cutler. I have a feeling that he wanted Cutler. I don't know exactly how that all went down, but if Houston would have taken Young (like the entire city of Houston wanted them to) we might not have Jay Cutler. He'd probably be a Titan.