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View Full Version : Could this be the start of the end for Brady???



Ravage!!!
09-09-2008, 07:16 PM
I know its not an injury he can't come back from.. but we've seen this with QBs in the past. Things start off small, and it just seems to roller coaster.

Brady had a mysterious 'boot' on his foot after the last playoff game and before the Super Bowl last season. The team, and Brady, tried to keep it secret at the time and never really said what it was. This pre-season, Brady again was spotted wearing a boot, but insisted it was 'nothing' and no Big deal. Being sure to state that it was NOT the same injury as what kept him in a boot between last post-season.

That of course turned out to be a lie (not saying its a big deal they lied about the injury).. but in fact the injury was a big deal. Tom had a crack in his foot that was severe enough to keep him out of pre-season games. The injury was 'rumored' to be severe enough, that some speculated that he should miss a few of the first few games.

(In fact, because of those rumors.. I predicted to my family (Chief fans) that Glen Dorsey would be on Tom's back... putting enough pressure on the foot that Tom would have to go out of the game with a foot/leg injury)

But now he is out with an ACL.

So although these injuries are supposedly different.... are we sure that last year's boot and this year's boot are for separate injuries?? Could this be a chronic foot injury that Brady and the Patriots were doing their best to keep out of the press?? Now he has the ACL injury on the SAME leg.

Again. I know Tom Brady will play again, I don't have a doubt about that. But we have seen QBs struggle when coming back from ACL injuries in the past. We have seen older QBs struggle once certain injuries start to re-occur.

Could this be the start of the decline for Tom Brady??

Overtime
09-09-2008, 07:46 PM
no, if anything this will give Tom time to heal all areas of his body from the wear and tear he has sustained playing football since 2001. He can get his shoulder healthy, his foot, his ACL, and anything else that's ailing him.

I look for Tom to come back better than ever and healthy as a fresh rookie, even if it takes a game or two to shake off some rust.

BroncosRockdaRockies
09-09-2008, 08:07 PM
That is a tough question. Personally i think he will come out of it like previous poster said he will have time to heal!

But here is another factor to consider. Does he come back gunshy? Or Maybe go out on a limb and say hmmmmmmm I have a couple superbowl rings do i get out now and just retire?

Injuries can cause second guessing especially if he isnt on the field a whole year and half counting off season and being around influential family members who are really close and concerned! I dunno tough thread!

:salute:

anton...
09-09-2008, 08:12 PM
perhaps...

but i highly doubt so...

he now has a whole 12 months or 365 days, give or take a few, to get any surgeries or what have you, to sort everything out...

brady was on a 128-game starting streak, third-longest in nfl history...

i dont care if you are superman or not, injuries will start to mount up and take longer to heal as people get older...

i guess this offseason just wasnt long enough this year for him to fully heal up...

i think he will be back, and i think he may now play a year or 2 longer overall because he now, for the first time since he started in the nfl, has a whole year to rest his body, heal and get away from the grind of nfl life...

:2cents:

interesting idea none the less...

Ravage!!!
09-10-2008, 07:59 AM
I'm not of course.. saying he won't come back. But the deterioration of the body is a funny thing. Once it starts happening like Brady has been suffering from the SAME leg over the last few years, they just seem to generally continue to deteriorate at a much faster rate.

I have no doubt he'll come back.. and feeling stronger than ever. But will he really be? Maybe at first

BarkdogRX7
09-10-2008, 09:12 AM
Remember a similiar thing happened with Culpepper, he came off a pimp season, hurt his knee and had a year to heal, and he was never the same. I saw him as the same QB last year in Oakland but everyone sees you as damaged goods, it's like a Carfax report...you say ur good, and u ARE good but people look at u differently. Brady WILL come back but he will only be a max of 90% for the rest of his career cause people will look at him like dmg goods...mark my words, this is the start of the end for Brady, and who cares, dude did everything before 27 that Dan Marino couldnt do at age 39...I'm not crying

Overtime
09-10-2008, 09:20 AM
Remember a similiar thing happened with Culpepper, he came off a pimp season, hurt his knee and had a year to heal, and he was never the same. I saw him as the same QB last year in Oakland but everyone sees you as damaged goods, it's like a Carfax report...you say ur good, and u ARE good but people look at u differently. Brady WILL come back but he will only be a max of 90% for the rest of his career cause people will look at him like dmg goods...mark my words, this is the start of the end for Brady, and who cares, dude did everything before 27 that Dan Marino couldnt do at age 39...I'm not crying

eh I really question Culpeppers rehab efforts. I mean there's QB's playing in the league right now, who have had blown out knees. Brody Croyle (2 blown out knees in College), Carson Palmer. I believe Rivers had some sort of knee operation awhile back? But Culpepper injures his, and gets cut the following spring. either he was just really lazy and didnt rehab like he should have, or he got caught in a bad situation.

Brady is kinda different, his work ethic is different, so I have no doubt, he'll be rehabbing very diligently to make sure he's back in 100% form, and with his return to the Patriots, no one's gonna care that he is damaged good, they'll just want their QB back. Brady is also a 3 Time Super Bowl Champ, 2 Time Super Bowl MVP, and 1 time League MVP. Culpepper has been none of those things.

LordTrychon
09-10-2008, 10:23 AM
GREAT thread Rav.

I have a few takes on it.

First off... it's always a question whether or not someone will come back the same from injury. Of course there's way more success now than there was even 5 years ago... but then there's always the ones that don't... they just don't get the publicity... because it's more of a non-story.

Then there's the possibility that Brady's starting to break down... and that even if he rehabs perfectly... it causes a chain reaction of sorts that causes him to become more injury prone. The body over compensates to take pressure off of the injured areas, putting too much stress on those other parts.

Then it's possible he just won't be the same for quite a while or ever. Big Ben and Carson Palmer are completely back from injury... but they're not really the same now, are they? You could argue there's other factors though, and I'll get to that last. McNabb tends to come out and look like a world beater every so often... usually in the first few weeks of a season (sound familiar this week?) but what's the over/under on him playing 16 games this year do you think?

I know that those situations are all different... but this thread wasn't really about the obstacles of recovering from a knee injury.

The last thing to consider is window of opportunity. I've held for most of the offseason that one of the biggest surprises this year would be the Pats... and obviously not meaning that they'd win the SB... because that wouldn't really be a shocking prediction, now would it?

Teams can't stay at the top forever... and they've had a great run. Eventually, luck has to turn against you... or the injury bug starts to come back and bite (obviously I wasn't expecting THIS). Add into that... the SB loss hangover is 1,000 times more real than the Madden curse. Laws of statistics say that things tend toward the mean. A 4-12 team is much more likely to have a better season than one that went 12-4... let alone 16-0 in the regular season.

So when Brady comes back, it's possible that the Patriots could be on the downslide and moving backwards... while he's still readjusting to being on the field again. It's just possible that he will have more to struggle with even IF he comes back 100%... and rebuilding isn't an easy thing to do... even for the Pats.

So do I think this could be the start of the end?

Yep.

Chances are that he'll come back and at the very least still be a top 10 QB... and there's obviously the chance that he'll come back and they'll go 19-0. There's a chance that he'll come back and be benched for Cassel. Answer's somewhere in the middle, I'm fairly positive.

Ravage!!!
09-10-2008, 10:29 AM
GREAT thread Rav.

I have a few takes on it.

First off... it's always a question whether or not someone will come back the same from injury. Of course there's way more success now than there was even 5 years ago... but then there's always the ones that don't... they just don't get the publicity... because it's more of a non-story.

Then there's the possibility that Brady's starting to break down... and that even if he rehabs perfectly... it causes a chain reaction of sorts that causes him to become more injury prone. The body over compensates to take pressure off of the injured areas, putting too much stress on those other parts.

Then it's possible he just won't be the same for quite a while or ever. Big Ben and Carson Palmer are completely back from injury... but they're not really the same now, are they? You could argue there's other factors though, and I'll get to that last. McNabb tends to come out and look like a world beater every so often... usually in the first few weeks of a season (sound familiar this week?) but what's the over/under on him playing 16 games this year do you think?

I know that those situations are all different... but this thread wasn't really about the obstacles of recovering from a knee injury.

The last thing to consider is window of opportunity. I've held for most of the offseason that one of the biggest surprises this year would be the Pats... and obviously not meaning that they'd win the SB... because that wouldn't really be a shocking prediction, now would it?

Teams can't stay at the top forever... and they've had a great run. Eventually, luck has to turn against you... or the injury bug starts to come back and bite (obviously I wasn't expecting THIS). Add into that... the SB loss hangover is 1,000 times more real than the Madden curse. Laws of statistics say that things tend toward the mean. A 4-12 team is much more likely to have a better season than one that went 12-4... let alone 16-0 in the regular season.

So when Brady comes back, it's possible that the Patriots could be on the downslide and moving backwards... while he's still readjusting to being on the field again. It's just possible that he will have more to struggle with even IF he comes back 100%... and rebuilding isn't an easy thing to do... even for the Pats.

So do I think this could be the start of the end?

Yep.

Chances are that he'll come back and at the very least still be a top 10 QB... and there's obviously the chance that he'll come back and they'll go 19-0. There's a chance that he'll come back and be benched for Cassel. Answer's somewhere in the middle, I'm fairly positive.

Great reply...... :salute:

LordTrychon
09-10-2008, 11:14 AM
Great reply...... :salute:

Work with what I'm given. :salute:

For the record, I've always thought Brady was a good/very good intelligent QB who really benefitted from being in precisely the right system, and with a team that worked well to build to his strengths... and who had a lot of luck (how many 3 pt wins) along the way... Yes, I know that you make your own luck in the NFL... but to get that much of it...

Last year kinda put a whole in my theory... and then strengthened it a little back up in the end...

*shrug*

We'll see what happens.

GridironChamp
09-10-2008, 01:24 PM
As hard as Brady works I dont think it's a major issue. I remember when Palmer
went down these same things were being discussed, he came back in like 6 months
and hasnt shown any lingering problems. I think Brady works harder and cares
more for the game than Palmer did/does.

He could have Culpepperenitis where he just never looks the same, but it wasnt
a complete knee tear (MCL, ACL, PCL[i think]). It was a torn ACL, and I havnt
heard the full details like a full tear or just a partial. I've seen alot worse so I
think the effects wont last too long for him.

He is also a pocket passer with great protection, so that will help alot. Culpepper
played for bad teams with worse protection in which he had to constantly move
and throw on the run and he couldnt do it. Brady will still just chill in the pocket
and play mind games with the defense, something that his knee wont effect.

Flatlander Fan
09-10-2008, 02:03 PM
As hard as Brady works I dont think it's a major issue. I remember when Palmer
went down these same things were being discussed, he came back in like 6 months
and hasnt shown any lingering problems. I think Brady works harder and cares
more for the game than Palmer did/does.

He could have Culpepperenitis where he just never looks the same, but it wasnt
a complete knee tear (MCL, ACL, PCL[i think]). It was a torn ACL, and I havnt
heard the full details like a full tear or just a partial. I've seen alot worse so I
think the effects wont last too long for him.

He is also a pocket passer with great protection, so that will help alot. Culpepper
played for bad teams with worse protection in which he had to constantly move
and throw on the run and he couldnt do it. Brady will still just chill in the pocket
and play mind games with the defense, something that his knee wont effect.

It's now a torn ACL and MCL (http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/reiss_pieces/2008/09/sources_brady_t.html).

I think the key to him being able to come back is being patient with the process of rehabilitation. It'd be a mistake to rush him into week 1 next season if he's not ready to go.

GridironChamp
09-10-2008, 02:06 PM
It's now a torn ACL and MCL (http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/reiss_pieces/2008/09/sources_brady_t.html).

I think the key to him being able to come back is being patient with the process of rehabilitation. It'd be a mistake to rush him into week 1 next season if he's not ready to go.

Now thats not good news...


But this


Medical tests on the knee, including an MRI performed Monday,
indicated no damage to other knee ligaments and no torn cartilage.

Means as much, if not more.

Flatlander Fan
09-10-2008, 02:09 PM
Now thats not good news...


But this



Means as much, if not more.

Yeah, not a Culpepper knee at all, but still worse than originally thought. I hope for Brady's sake that when they open him up they don't have any surprises.

So with an MCL tear, does it just heal itself? :confused: That's the way the article makes it sound...

GridironChamp
09-10-2008, 02:12 PM
Yeah, not a Culpepper knee at all, but still worse than originally thought. I hope for Brady's sake that when they open him up they don't have any surprises.

So with an MCL tear, does it just heal itself? :confused: That's the way the article makes it sound...

Im pretty sure it does. My friend partially tore his MCL while snowboarding in
like 5th grade and just cruised on crutches for a while then he started to walk
on it again and he was good by mid-spring.

It has to dow with where its located, I think the MCL is the outside and the ACL
is the inside thus putting more reliance on it.

BarkdogRX7
09-10-2008, 02:25 PM
eh I really question Culpeppers rehab efforts. I mean there's QB's playing in the league right now, who have had blown out knees. Brody Croyle (2 blown out knees in College), Carson Palmer. I believe Rivers had some sort of knee operation awhile back? But Culpepper injures his, and gets cut the following spring. either he was just really lazy and didnt rehab like he should have, or he got caught in a bad situation.

Brady is kinda different, his work ethic is different, so I have no doubt, he'll be rehabbing very diligently to make sure he's back in 100% form, and with his return to the Patriots, no one's gonna care that he is damaged good, they'll just want their QB back. Brady is also a 3 Time Super Bowl Champ, 2 Time Super Bowl MVP, and 1 time League MVP. Culpepper has been none of those things.


Culpepper was the 2004 NFL MVP if I am not mistaken

EDIT...He wasnt, but he won something in 2004...or just had a sick year

Ravage!!!
09-10-2008, 09:05 PM
I don't know if we can say Brady cares "more" than Culpepper and Palmer. How can ANYONE here know the thoughts of how a player thinks, wants, wishes or desires? Not to mention.. no one here was even NEAR them during any of their rehabilitation..... so to suggest one player 'wants' it more is pretty ridiculous.

The difference between the players is the severity of their injuries... Culpepper's was about as bad as it can get.

But its not the KNEE itself that I'm talking about being the beginning-of-the-end. ITs a combination of last years late foot injury that was supposedly no big deal... yet... he mysteriously had the boot again the beginning of THIS year (again with the 'no big deal reasons)... and then the new injury to had on TOP of the one that had been obviously lingering.....

So no matter how much Brady works... and no matter how much he 'wants it more'.. that doesn't mean he can make himself impervious to the re-occuring injuries that seem to be taking their toll on him as of very late.

Hoserman117
09-10-2008, 09:35 PM
I think it'll take him a while. Only now does it look like McNabb has recovered from his injury, and it looks like Carson Palmer still hasn't fully recovered.

Ravage!!!
09-12-2008, 03:02 PM
I think it'll take him a while. Only now does it look like McNabb has recovered from his injury, and it looks like Carson Palmer still hasn't fully recovered.

INdeed. Carson still looks horrible. McNabb is healthy, for now. How many times do we have to go through that with McNabb. The "for now."

Philly is the only team in the NFL that actually has to pay their back-up QB starting money and is of starting caliber because he's promised 50% of the plays in his contract :D :P

saltybuggah
09-13-2008, 08:18 AM
I think it'll take him a while. Only now does it look like McNabb has recovered from his injury, and it looks like Carson Palmer still hasn't fully recovered.

mcnabb is questionable every year... just because he had a great game 1 wait till he gets to week 10 or 11 when he nomally is out for the rest of the year... i live in pa and unfortunately have to watch most eagles games... i dont know if its the long haul of the nfl or the wear and tear of mcnabb's body or jsut some rotten luck when it comes to mcnabb...

now to the OP

i think that brady will come back and play fine on the knee if his o-line is solid... look at his play last year... it seemed everytime he had all day to throw the ball and he didnt have to scramble all game long avoiding sacks... now his true test on the knee will come when he plays heavy blitzing d's and they meet him in the backfield... putting pressure on him will force him to run and putting more of a strain on that knee...

i believe any injury will put a target on a player, especially one like brady, and teams will be more prone to test em out... now brady is a smart qb and probably wont have much problems adjusting to the limitations that the new injury brings... but teams have one more full year to add speed and power to the D and get in the backfield to make this happen...

will this be a snowball effect on brady for years to come :confused: i dont really know, funny things happen in the nfl and nagging injuries have a funny way of coming back...

one thing that i dont like is the nfl lets the pats get away with having a shady injury report week in and week out...

BroncoKazuki
09-13-2008, 08:20 PM
rav you forgot to add one thing. Bill-a-cheat has zero loyalty to his star QBs.

Ala Bleatsu now Ala Brady once he finds Brady's replacement.

Corndog
09-17-2008, 07:51 AM
rav you forgot to add one thing. Bill-a-cheat has zero loyalty to his star QBs.

Ala Bleatsu now Ala Brady once he finds Brady's replacement.
Best player plays. As a coach you get paid to win, not be loyal to someone who can't produce anymore. What did Bledsoe do once he left the Pats? He was horrible.
As far as Brady, if it's possible to come back, he will. He loves the game, and works hard on conditioning.