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slostenracing
11-14-2008, 12:11 AM
NORFOLK, Va. (AP) - Imprisoned NFL quarterback Michael Vick expects to return to pro football, according to his bankruptcy attorneys who laid out a plan to pay creditors based in part on his anticipated earnings.

"The Debtor has every reason to believe that upon his release, he will be reinstated into the NFL, resume his career and be able to earn a substantial living," Vick's attorneys wrote in a disclosure statement filed before a hearing Thursday in U.S. Bankruptcy Court in Norfolk.

The former Atlanta Falcons star is serving a 23-month sentence in a federal penitentiary for bankrolling a dogfighting ring in rural Virginia and is scheduled to be released on July 20.

Once the NFL's highest-paid player, Vick has assets of $16 million and liabilities of $20.4 million, according to the court filing in which attorneys wrote in extraordinary detail about Vick's dizzying financial mess listing a fleet of vehicles, properties, businesses and the extended family he supported.

A Vick attorney said a committee representing all his debtors has proposed a plan to pay off his debt. A judge scheduled a hearing for mid-December on the appointment of a trustee, which Vick's attorneys oppose.

"The committee attorney acknowledged that there's been a lot of progress, so we're hopeful," Peter R. Ginsberg told The Associated Press.

Vick still faces two state felony counts dogfighting and animal cruelty. They carry maximum prison terms of 10 years, but under a plea deal, Vick would serve a suspended sentence and a year of probation.

He is scheduled to appear in Surry County Circuit Court on Nov. 25.

Paul K. Campsen, another Vick attorney in the bankruptcy proceeding, said he had not had any contact with the NFL, nor had Vick. While Vick still has a contract with the Falcons, NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell would have the final say on his return, which he is counting on after he is released.

"That's the hope," Campsen said in an interview. "I think efforts will be made once we get past this."

The attorneys laid out a payment plan to Vick's creditors that includes expected NFL earnings and possible signing bonuses.

Campsen said the reorganization plan involves those expected payments and liquidation of his larger assets.

Ginsberg said if the sides can't agree in December, another hearing will be held in January. Vick was ordered to attend.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/8791532?MSNHPHMA

stnzed
11-14-2008, 01:07 AM
NORFOLK, Va. (AP) - Imprisoned NFL quarterback Michael Vick expects to return to pro football, according to his bankruptcy attorneys who laid out a plan to pay creditors based in part on his anticipated earnings.

"The Debtor has every reason to believe that upon his release, he will be reinstated into the NFL, resume his career and be able to earn a substantial living," Vick's attorneys wrote in a disclosure statement filed before a hearing Thursday in U.S. Bankruptcy Court in Norfolk.

The former Atlanta Falcons star is serving a 23-month sentence in a federal penitentiary for bankrolling a dogfighting ring in rural Virginia and is scheduled to be released on July 20.

Once the NFL's highest-paid player, Vick has assets of $16 million and liabilities of $20.4 million, according to the court filing in which attorneys wrote in extraordinary detail about Vick's dizzying financial mess listing a fleet of vehicles, properties, businesses and the extended family he supported.

A Vick attorney said a committee representing all his debtors has proposed a plan to pay off his debt. A judge scheduled a hearing for mid-December on the appointment of a trustee, which Vick's attorneys oppose.

"The committee attorney acknowledged that there's been a lot of progress, so we're hopeful," Peter R. Ginsberg told The Associated Press.

Vick still faces two state felony counts dogfighting and animal cruelty. They carry maximum prison terms of 10 years, but under a plea deal, Vick would serve a suspended sentence and a year of probation.

He is scheduled to appear in Surry County Circuit Court on Nov. 25.

Paul K. Campsen, another Vick attorney in the bankruptcy proceeding, said he had not had any contact with the NFL, nor had Vick. While Vick still has a contract with the Falcons, NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell would have the final say on his return, which he is counting on after he is released.

"That's the hope," Campsen said in an interview. "I think efforts will be made once we get past this."

The attorneys laid out a payment plan to Vick's creditors that includes expected NFL earnings and possible signing bonuses.

Campsen said the reorganization plan involves those expected payments and liquidation of his larger assets.

Ginsberg said if the sides can't agree in December, another hearing will be held in January. Vick was ordered to attend.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/8791532?MSNHPHMA

See, if Michael Vick were a CEO he'd have nothing to worry about, he'd just get himself one of them fancy pardons or.......what do they call them?.......Buyouts.

You paid One Hundred and Thirty Million Dollars for a dog fighting operation? I hope it was worth it, you freak.......

Overtime
11-14-2008, 02:05 AM
All of the Pro sports commissioners should band together, and have a common rule. If you are convicted of a felony, "you are not allowed to play, sign a contract, coach, advise, or receive payments for services in anyway shape or form related directly or indirectly to professional sports".

end of story.


this piece of crap, should be banned from the NFL for life, and he should no longer have the "Privilege" of playing in the NFL, or coaching, or anything.

Playing in the NFL is not a right. It's a "PRIVILEGE".

They should take everything he owns, any endorsement earnings, signing bonuses, to satisfy his debt, and whatever else he owes, they should just garnish his wages to the maximum.

he can go back to flipping burgers at $7 an hour.

this man is a disgrace to professional sports.

slostenracing
11-14-2008, 02:15 AM
he can go back to flipping burgers at $7 an hour.


HAHA if you think that guy flipped burgers for a living before the NFL you are nuts. He's more thug than Travis Henry and we know where that took him post-NFL.

Overtime
11-14-2008, 02:43 AM
HAHA if you think that guy flipped burgers for a living before the NFL you are nuts. He's more thug than Travis Henry and we know where that took him post-NFL.

yeah, i forgot...guys like him are too lazy and too proud to flip burgers to make a bug...they'd just rather sell crack to kids to make their living.

slostenracing
11-14-2008, 02:46 AM
yeah, i forgot...guys like him are too lazy and too proud to flip burgers to make a bug...they'd just rather sell crack to kids to make their living.

In Henry's case probably some of his own kids.

orangeblue72
11-14-2008, 07:15 AM
How ironic that scumbag Vick now has real blocking. If his crimes kept him in the real world like the rest of us instead of his money keeping him out this is what would have and should have happened....
1. MINIMUM 10 year sentence for racketeering
2. MINIMUM 10 year sentence for animal cruelty violations
3. LIFETIME BAN from ANY level of football
Instead, we have a scumbag who knowingly and with no reservation tortured and killed animals for personal gain. He knew it was illegal yet still did it for almost ten years. I hope with his felonies that he will be barred from crossing international borders and that he has to get a job outside of football, no CFL no other leagues or levels. His lawyer team is on the same level as the scumbags who represent Mafia, and drug cartel dealers. I think as fans, we should stand united on this and tell the commissioner no way.

:fight:

slostenracing
11-14-2008, 08:20 AM
His lawyer team is on the same level as the scumbags who represent Mafia, and drug cartel dealers.

Don't even compare the two. Mafias at least have morals and codes they abide by. Vick didn't care about morals.

saltybuggah
11-14-2008, 09:00 AM
honestly, what are the bankruptcy attorneys supposed to say on behalf of Vick paying off his debts... :confused:

of course they are going to say that Vick is planning a return to the NFL, make money and pay it back... but the debtors might want to think twice about Vick getting a big contract cuz its not going to happen if he does get reinstated... but, why wouldnt Vick want to say and try to continue his career in the NFL, being that the commish cant make a ruling on Vick until he gets released from jail...

its going to be interesting on what the commish does...

he could look at it either way...

he easily could ban him from the NFL, the code of conduct policy has been violated and the commish can use this as his bible and place Vick outside looking in...

he also could put a year or so ban on him with this violation as well...

now on the posibility that Vick gets placed back in the league upon his release... highly unlikely but he could jsut say that Vick served his time away from football being in jail and if a team wants to take a chance on him this will be the pacman senerio... screw up once and your gone again...

imo when Vick gets released he will serve an additional year away from football... the commish at the very least has to give him a year additional ban if not life... the reason the additional year ban has to be inforced is because while Vick is in jail chances are he wont get into any trouble... take Vick outside of jail and the troubled past might come back and bite him in the ass... the commish needs to see if Vick is willing to change his self destructive ways and get away from the lifestyle he once lived... as sick and twisted of an individual that Vick is he will probably get another chance to play in the NFL if upon his release he stays clean for a year or so...

slostenracing
11-14-2008, 09:14 AM
I personally don't think he'll be out long before going back in. Remember these are just the federal charges, he still has state charges and apparently he is over $4 million in LITERAL debt, gonna be kind of hard to get a good lawyer when your making pennies an hour.

ebsoria
11-14-2008, 01:48 PM
I like how it says in anticipation of signing bonuses... I'm willing to bet that someone does indeed take a risk on him. HIGH reward for low money-risk. He'll get vet minimum with an incentive laden contract and that signing bonus will equate to gas money to get his ass to camp. But, he's gonna be too "proud" and not want to sign until he sees that the next higher offer is in Detroit and includes a little box of tick-tacs each week as well.

jojo187
11-14-2008, 05:04 PM
some of the posters in this thread are very unamerican, if the man serves with debt to society he should be allowed continue to work and to make a living maybe not in the NFL put somewhere.

I believe someone mentioned that ALL felons in any sport should be banned for life. Remember DUI is a felony, Peeing in public is a Felony in Arizona, there are many crimes which are felonies, which average people sometimes commit, not saying that they are not a big deal, but just because you get a DUI does not mean you are a bad person.

The lawyers in this case are not bad people either, if you know anything about the legal profession you would know that you do not have to agree with or even believe your client. Every American has a constitutional right to representation, even if they are accused of Racketeer or have been convicted of dog fighting. I hope you never get accused of a serious crime but if you do be thankful that there are lawyers who will defend you no matter how guilty you look.

Also every American has a constitutionally protected right to bankruptcy it may not always be pretty but if you ever have to, be thankful that the right exists.

Vick did some terrible things, I am sure he thought it was no big deal and that he was somewhat above the law. 2 years in prison will change that I have no doubt. Whether or not you think Vick should be allowed to play in the NFL once he is out of prison he has served his debt to society and he should be treated as a citizen.

BarkdogRX7
11-14-2008, 10:19 PM
I am speaking out of bias here so bare with it

If this were...I dunno, Shannon Sharpe (Who lives down South) or someone who was beloved in Denver, u guys would all say "What a jerk move, maybe he will learn something while in prison and be eligible to play football again".

Since it is Vick who had a semi thuggish rep beforehand, u guys want him to never rise up again. I just think it is pretty harsh of you guys, he got what he deserved, he lost his status and is at the bottom, he deserves a shot to work back up to something imo

Drunk Bronco
11-14-2008, 10:27 PM
who gives a f****kk

ebsoria
11-15-2008, 08:46 AM
I am speaking out of bias here so bare with it

If this were...I dunno, Shannon Sharpe (Who lives down South) or someone who was beloved in Denver, u guys would all say "What a jerk move, maybe he will learn something while in prison and be eligible to play football again".

Since it is Vick who had a semi thuggish rep beforehand, u guys want him to never rise up again. I just think it is pretty harsh of you guys, he got what he deserved, he lost his status and is at the bottom, he deserves a shot to work back up to something imo

I bolded the part that I think makes the distinction between if it were SHannon and it actually being Vick. Sorry for the pun... bu tyou can't teach and old dog new tricks. Sure.. you get the one every so often that does indeed change, and Vick could quite possibly be that one... but if you were a betting man chances are you're not going to reach into the cage of the dog that bit you and has had an image of being a biter. You're just not gonna do it.

IMO playing in the NFL is indeed an honor. It's an honor to be out there playing a game for money and putting on a show for the fans. It's an honor to be walking down the street and have some kid with YOUR name on his back because of what you do on that field. To break the law so blatantly and with so little regard, like Vick did... YES, you need to be banned from the league. Not from life. Go get a "common man" job, because you abused and lost your shot at an "elite" job. To me, this does not come down to- felony or no felony. It's not that cut and dry because, yes, a DUI is a felony. Sadly, most of the times a DUI gets swept under the table because one out of every three adults in this country has or has had one. While it's illegal and frowned upon, it is more socially acceptable and easier to deal with due to the varying nature of damage done. But Vick's case here? There is not grey area. There is no question. DONE, in my book.

Kapaibro
11-15-2008, 09:27 AM
some of the posters in this thread are very unamerican, if the man serves with debt to society he should be allowed continue to work and to make a living maybe not in the NFL put somewhere.

I believe someone mentioned that ALL felons in any sport should be banned for life. Remember DUI is a felony, Peeing in public is a Felony in Arizona, there are many crimes which are felonies, which average people sometimes commit, not saying that they are not a big deal, but just because you get a DUI does not mean you are a bad person.

The lawyers in this case are not bad people either, if you know anything about the legal profession you would know that you do not have to agree with or even believe your client. Every American has a constitutional right to representation, even if they are accused of Racketeer or have been convicted of dog fighting. I hope you never get accused of a serious crime but if you do be thankful that there are lawyers who will defend you no matter how guilty you look.

Also every American has a constitutionally protected right to bankruptcy it may not always be pretty but if you ever have to, be thankful that the right exists.

Vick did some terrible things, I am sure he thought it was no big deal and that he was somewhat above the law. 2 years in prison will change that I have no doubt. Whether or not you think Vick should be allowed to play in the NFL once he is out of prison he has served his debt to society and he should be treated as a citizen.

No one is denying him the right to work, they just don't think that he should be involved in the NFL.

And as for serving his time, no he hasn't. 23 months?? Are you serious? Any other person would be serving the minimum 5 years. And he is coping a plea to the dogfighting and animal cruelty charges, so rather than serving the 10 years there, he will be free.

Spice 1
11-15-2008, 09:29 AM
Don't even compare the two. Mafias at least have morals and codes they abide by. Vick didn't care about morals.

Bribery, Taxation without representation, Money laundering, Murder, Grand theft, etc, etc, etc. vs Dog fighting.:confused: I blame the Sopranos.

slostenracing
11-15-2008, 09:55 AM
Bribery, Taxation without representation, Money laundering, Murder, Grand theft, etc, etc, etc. vs Dog fighting.:confused: I blame the Sopranos.

And they do them all with morals. People that cross them or challenge them get messed with, innocents do not. Maybe not so much today but the original idea behind it and the ones that were around back in the 20's and stuff did more for their communities than any politician or policeman did.

Vick had zero morals in running a dog fighting ring.

BarkdogRX7
11-15-2008, 10:15 AM
No one is denying him the right to work, they just don't think that he should be involved in the NFL.

And as for serving his time, no he hasn't. 23 months?? Are you serious? Any other person would be serving the minimum 5 years. And he is coping a plea to the dogfighting and animal cruelty charges, so rather than serving the 10 years there, he will be free.

Thank you, I don't know if he'll play in the NFL again, he's working out every day, physically he can probably play and if he does I am sure he will get booed everywhere he plays to be honest, but weather plays again or not, he deserves a shot at redeeming his character and making a living somehow

orangeblue72
11-15-2008, 10:26 AM
All about any kind of defense. Even if the prison he's in gets updated reading material Scumbag Vick still wouldn't be able to read any defense. He willfully and with arrogance lied to the face of the Commissioner about his involvement in the then rumored " dog-fighting activities ". If the commissioner wants to prove he's got some morals he will lifetime ban the thug. Yeah, my bad, Mafia lawyers as well as drug cartel Kingpins do have more morals than Scumbag Vick. For me this is where I stand....
1. I do not care what color the criminal is
2. I do not care what team they played for
Scumbag Vick is without any doubt still the most overrated QB of all time that lasted longer than most thanks to his athleticism and the blocking WR's downfield. I hope he has to work outside of football and have the luxury lifestyle he so coveted taken away from him and that he has to earn a real living like the rest of us who are law abiding, and tax paying do.

BarkdogRX7
11-15-2008, 10:40 AM
Wow tell us how u really feel...

I know what Vick did was insanely immoral but Dany Heatley of the NHL KILLED a teammate and he is still playing. I'm not a big supporter of Vick now but all I am saying is he deserves a shot at some kind of life.

orangeblue72
11-15-2008, 11:01 AM
Wow tell us how u really feel...

I know what Vick did was insanely immoral but Dany Heatley of the NHL KILLED a teammate and he is still playing. I'm not a big supporter of Vick now but all I am saying is he deserves a shot at some kind of life.


Yeah he killed a teamate in a DUI, which is still sad and he should have been banned for a year at the minimum. What really angers me is that Steve Moore is living the remainder of his life in a wheelchair after that scumbag Bertuzzi gave him a cheap shot in the back of the head and crushed his spine. Scumbag Vick sets a bad example of how to reward the overrated. I think Heatley should be barred from coming into the USA for a vehicular homicide from when he was in Atlanta. It's not even the countless corpses of dogs that were tortured and killed for Scumbag Vick's money and pleasure it's the fact that he knowingly and willfully engaged in that illegal lifestyle from his rookie season until he was caught. A ten year investigation that we the taxpayers paid for finally busted his arrogant and defiant ass. Vick is still way overrated. Ask yourself this...his " highlight reel " is him running 65 yards against the Vikings for a touchdown...why couldn't he read that defense, and why did he score ? The answer will be...just like now he couldn't read the defense and used his covered WR's to block for him downfield. A lifetime ban is only fitting, or at least a ten year one since that's how long he engaged in his ILLEGAL activities. How I really feel ? I feel sick that Millionaires such as him and many others use their money to avoid the justice the rest of us would be dealt, yet he's bankrupt what a joke. The only return scumbag Vick needs to do is back to prison to face REAL TIME eight more years to his joke two.

BarkdogRX7
11-15-2008, 03:59 PM
I dunno, to be honest, this is a gray area. I feel that any man (for the most part) should face the consequences for what he does. But most on here, don't feel it is severe enough, weather u believed in his QB skills is a matter of opinion and if Goddell believes he served his time, he should be given a fair shot to compete for some team if Goddell doesn't take further action (Track record says he will to be honest).

I guess I am just wondering this, he got his sentence, he is serving it, he will get out...is that not enough?

Kapaibro
11-15-2008, 05:33 PM
I dunno, to be honest, this is a gray area. I feel that any man (for the most part) should face the consequences for what he does. But most on here, don't feel it is severe enough, weather u believed in his QB skills is a matter of opinion and if Goddell believes he served his time, he should be given a fair shot to compete for some team if Goddell doesn't take further action (Track record says he will to be honest).

I guess I am just wondering this, he got his sentence, he is serving it, he will get out...is that not enough?

Answer me this.

If you were a fan of the team who is idiot enough to pick him up, or your child became a fan of his, would you want to pay $75.00+ for a Vick jersey? And would you like to walk down the street wearing that jersey, whilst others are walking their dogs?
The NFL is a business. Just how many Vick jerseys do you think are going to sell?

slostenracing
11-15-2008, 05:48 PM
Answer me this.

If you were a fan of the team who is idiot enough to pick him up, or your child became a fan of his, would you want to pay $75.00+ for a Vick jersey? And would you like to walk down the street wearing that jersey, whilst others are walking their dogs?
The NFL is a business. Just how many Vick jerseys do you think are going to sell?

A million or so. He still has plenty of fans.

Kapaibro
11-15-2008, 05:54 PM
A million or so. He still has plenty of fans.

And if he became a Bronco, would you buy one? Would you buy one for a child, knowing they were looking up to a felon?

slostenracing
11-15-2008, 06:06 PM
And if he became a Bronco, would you buy one? Would you buy one for a child, knowing they were looking up to a felon?

Depends on what he does when he comes out. Personally I think he will turn around and go right back for something else but if he turns his life around and stuff I wouldn't care if my kid looked up to a PRIOR felon.

There's quite a few people who spent a lot of time in prison and now lead a straight life that a lot of people look up to.

Remember, in some states even having a restraining order brought on you can be a felony and sometimes you they are just brought on you cause the other person is crazy not cause you committed a crime. ;)

Kapaibro
11-15-2008, 06:13 PM
Depends on what he does when he comes out. Personally I think he will turn around and go right back for something else but if he turns his life around and stuff I wouldn't care if my kid looked up to a PRIOR felon.

There's quite a few people who spent a lot of time in prison and now lead a straight life that a lot of people look up to.

Remember, in some states even having a restraining order brought on you can be a felony and sometimes you they are just brought on you cause the other person is crazy not cause you committed a crime. ;)

We're not talking about minor issues such as restraining orders or DUI's. We're talking about a person who bankrolled, and assisted in building an illegal dog fighting kennel for the express purpose of breaking the law. This person di so for 10 years, using money earned from the NFL, under a contract that said he could not engage in illegal activites.
The man is a cheat, a liar, a gambler and an abuser of animals.

Not sure if you realise this, but abuse of animals is most often times associated with serial killers, and those who abuse animals are more likely to abuse people.

slostenracing
11-15-2008, 06:31 PM
We're not talking about minor issues such as restraining orders or DUI's. We're talking about a person who bankrolled, and assisted in building an illegal dog fighting kennel for the express purpose of breaking the law. This person di so for 10 years, using money earned from the NFL, under a contract that said he could not engage in illegal activites.
The man is a cheat, a liar, a gambler and an abuser of animals.

Not sure if you realise this, but abuse of animals is most often times associated with serial killers, and those who abuse animals are more likely to abuse people.

I'm really missing your logic on serious crimes cause the person with the restraining order could have maimed or seriously injured a PERSON, the guy with a DUI could have hit and killed an entire family of PEOPLE in a mini-van. You are siding with DOGS over PEOPLE here. The crimes I listed CAN BE minor is all I said, not that they are.

Drinking in public is an illegal activity. I bet less than 1% of the NFL players have not participated in an illegal activity at some point in their careers, though out of the the thousands the only ones you hear about are the retards who got caught doing it.

Where was that study conducted? I always heard that but never saw any evidence. I can honestly say if I see them, I will stop to let squirrels or anything else cross the street, I have never abused any animals but when I see cats I speed up.

It's not that I am deep down some psycho serial killer, I just hate cats. They spread fleas to dogs, they claw everything, they stink up your house if you have them no matter if you keep the litter box clean or not. I have never liked cats, never will, doesn't mean in ten years I will be in prison for murder. :rolleyes:

Point is it'd depend on time served, severity of crime and how they act after they get out.

Kapaibro
11-15-2008, 07:42 PM
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/425882/the_link_between_animal_abuse_and_serial.html

http://ezinearticles.com/?Animal-Cruelty:--The-Key-to-Serial-Minds&id=35856

http://animalsvoice.com/edits/editorial/features/link/randour_link.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_cruelty

http://www.all-creatures.org/letters/shannon22nov99.html

http://www.pet-abuse.com/pages/abuse_connection.php

http://www.oregonanimallaw.com/?p=54

http://www.ncaresonline.org/abuseviolencelink.html

http://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/prod/parlment/hansart.nsf/V3Key/LC20001011042


The FBI and Purdue University, among others, have conducted studies showing a definitive link between animal abuse and violence towards humans.


According to a 1997 study done by the Massachusetts Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals (SPCA) and Northeastern University, animal abusers are five times more likely to commit violent crimes against people and four times more likely to commit property crimes than are individuals without a history of animal abuse.

Many studies in psychology, sociology, and criminology during the last 25 years have demonstrated that violent offenders frequently have childhood and adolescent histories of serious and repeated animal cruelty. The FBI has recognized the connection since the 1970s, when its analysis of the lives of serial killers suggested that most had killed or tortured animals as children. Other research has shown consistent patterns of animal cruelty among perpetrators of more common forms of violence, including child abuse, spouse abuse, and elder abuse. In fact, the American Psychiatric Association considers animal cruelty one of the diagnostic criteria of conduct disorder.

If you break it down to its bare essentials:
"Abusing an animal is a way for a human to find power/joy/fulfillment through the torture of a victim they know cannot defend itself."

Now break down a human crime, say rape. If we substitute a few pronouns, it's the SAME THING.
"Rape is a way for a human to find power/joy/fulfillment through the torture of a victim they know cannot defend themselves."

Now try it with, say, domestic abuse such as child abuse or spousal abuse:
"Child abuse is a way for a human to find power/joy/fulfillment through the torture of a victim they know cannot defend themselves."

Do you see the pattern here?

The line separating an animal abuser from someone capable of committing human abuse is much finer than most people care to consider. People abuse animals for the same reasons they abuse people. Some of them will stop with animals, but enough have been proven to continue on to commit violent crimes to people that it's worth paying attention to.

Virtually every serious violent offender has a history of animal abuse in their past, and since there's no way to know which animal abuser is going to continue on to commit violent human crimes, they should ALL be taken that seriously. FBI Supervisory Special Agent Allen Brantley was quoted as saying "Animal cruelty... is not a harmless venting of emotion in a healthy individual; this is a warning sign..." It should be looked at as exactly that. Its a clear indicator of psychological issues that can and often DO lead to more violent human crimes.

Dr. Randall Lockwood, who has a doctorate in psychology and is senior vice president for anti-cruelty initiatives and training for the American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, states "A kid who is abusive to a pet is quite often acting out violence directly experienced or witnessed in the home," Lockwood said, adding that about one-third of children who are exposed to family violence will act out this violence, often against their own pets.


I'm not dismissing the POSSIBILTY of DUI's etc being serious, but those are hypotheticals as compared to a factual situation. Michael Vick has been proven to have done the things he has been charged and convicted of. It's not hypothetical.

LordTrychon
11-15-2008, 07:49 PM
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/425882/the_link_between_animal_abuse_and_serial.html

http://ezinearticles.com/?Animal-Cruelty:--The-Key-to-Serial-Minds&id=35856

http://animalsvoice.com/edits/editorial/features/link/randour_link.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_cruelty

http://www.all-creatures.org/letters/shannon22nov99.html

http://www.pet-abuse.com/pages/abuse_connection.php

http://www.oregonanimallaw.com/?p=54

http://www.ncaresonline.org/abuseviolencelink.html

http://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/prod/parlment/hansart.nsf/V3Key/LC20001011042


The FBI and Purdue University, among others, have conducted studies showing a definitive link between animal abuse and violence towards humans.



I'm not dismissing the POSSIBILTY of DUI's etc being serious, but those are hypotheticals as compared to a factual situation. Michael Vick has been proven to have done the things he has been charged and convicted of. It's not hypothetical.

Yes... but he wasn't convicted of violence towards humans or serial-killerness.

There's articles out there that link Serial Killers to high IQs, I'm sure... but that doesn't mean I AM one! ;)

Kapaibro
11-15-2008, 07:52 PM
Yes... but he wasn't convicted of violence towards humans or serial-killerness.

There's articles out there that link Serial Killers to high IQs, I'm sure... but that doesn't mean I AM one! ;)

I never said he was Trych.

I said that studies have shown that abuse of animals can lead to abuse of humans.

You have a high IQ, as do I, but did you abuse animals, wet the bed, or light fires? (All serious indicators of potential serial killer material)

;)



p.s. Why are there 2 salute smilies now?

slostenracing
11-15-2008, 08:09 PM
You have a high IQ, as do I, but did you abuse animals, wet the bed, or light fires? (All serious indicators of potential serial killer material)

Anyone who says they never wet the bed is either lying or a VERY tiny fraction of the population. Kids can't hold their bladders as well as older people and always have the habit of drinking before bed time.

Same with guys and lighting fires. If you didn't experiment with fire in some way then you are a small minority. I am not saying if you weren't convicted of arson by 12 you aren't normal by any means just mean lighting things on fire, making a flamethrower out of deodorant, burning stuff with a magnifying glass.

LordTrychon
11-15-2008, 08:14 PM
I never said he was Trych.

I said that studies have shown that abuse of animals can lead to abuse of humans.

You have a high IQ, as do I, but did you abuse animals, wet the bed, or light fires? (All serious indicators of potential serial killer material)

;)



p.s. Why are there 2 salute smilies now?

I'd like to take these questions one by one if I may...

Did I abuse animals? Does a particular Bunny count? ;)

Did I wet the bed? Again... this depends on the... er... I'm going to stop here... I don't see a red border and a dark blue background.

Did I start fires? I've always loved fires... and you could argue that I... er... forget that again... um... I think a fascination with fire is normal... I did play with matches once that led to a trash can on fire... that's about it though.

Anyway... I don't think Vick has a high IQ... so I think he's less of a risk than you think. :laugh:

slostenracing
11-15-2008, 08:21 PM
I'd also like to add, abuse of humans is in his DNA. Remember his brother stomped on our boy Elvis's leg.

slostenracing
11-16-2008, 07:50 AM
So I was just thinking cause MSN had the article still up about it....why don't we put a monitor in Vick's prison cell that plays the latest craze, The Puppy Cam (http://www.ustream.tv/channel/shiba-inu-puppy-cam), 24 hours a day. Anyone game for this? Start a petition? That would be hilarious.

sean669
11-16-2008, 07:58 AM
All of the Pro sports commissioners should band together, and have a common rule. If you are convicted of a felony, "you are not allowed to play, sign a contract, coach, advise, or receive payments for services in anyway shape or form related directly or indirectly to professional sports".

end of story.


this piece of crap, should be banned from the NFL for life, and he should no longer have the "Privilege" of playing in the NFL, or coaching, or anything.

Playing in the NFL is not a right. It's a "PRIVILEGE".

They should take everything he owns, any endorsement earnings, signing bonuses, to satisfy his debt, and whatever else he owes, they should just garnish his wages to the maximum.

he can go back to flipping burgers at $7 an hour.

this man is a disgrace to professional sports.

Yeah, because knowone in America ever made a mistake. America stands for something. We have a Judicial system! He did his time, he turned himself in early, and once his debt is paid, COMPLETELY whether that is parole or probation if the NFL warrants, he should have a right to make a living. I wish this anomosity would be directed at white collar crime. You know, like people who steal peoples 401k money, or run up the price of electricity by gouging claiming electrical shortage. I wish people felt they should never be able to make a dollar again in life. I mean after all, by that definition its a priviledge for them as well...:rolleyes:

GridironChamp
11-16-2008, 10:42 AM
Answer me this.

If you were a fan of the team who is idiot enough to pick him up, or your child became a fan of his, would you want to pay $75.00+ for a Vick jersey? And would you like to walk down the street wearing that jersey, whilst others are walking their dogs?
The NFL is a business. Just how many Vick jerseys do you think are going to sell?

I would do it, and do it proudly. :coffee:

Has anyone ever watched that joke of a show Outside The Lines? Most of it
is of crap just like this, guy on roids gets suspended for a year comes back
and plays again. Guy gets in alot of trouble, gets suspended comes back and
plays again. ect...

This kind of stuff happens, and if you don't give him another chance then you
are dealing with a huge problem of why Pacman was let back in, why guys with
multiple DUI's are allowed to play again, why Matt Jones is still playing, ect...

And for the record DUI's> Dog fighting in my mind, so let em play if ppl that have
DUI's can.

Overtime
11-16-2008, 12:07 PM
Yeah, because knowone in America ever made a mistake. America stands for something. We have a Judicial system! He did his time, he turned himself in early, and once his debt is paid, COMPLETELY whether that is parole or probation if the NFL warrants, he should have a right to make a living. I wish this anomosity would be directed at white collar crime. You know, like people who steal peoples 401k money, or run up the price of electricity by gouging claiming electrical shortage. I wish people felt they should never be able to make a dollar again in life. I mean after all, by that definition its a priviledge for them as well...:rolleyes:

a mistake? Felony conspiracy, extensive planning, and bankrolling, heinous abuse to animals, to include execution of dogs by drowning, electrical shock, and hanging...and that's a ****ing mistake?

no i don't think so. a mistake is, you got into a bar fight defending your wife at a bar from three drunken *******s and you accidentally killed one of them...that's a mistake. a mistake is driving down the highway at 78 miles an hour, and getting a ticket for 12 over. A mistake is you had too much too drink at the company christmas party, thought you were ok to make it home, but instead you tried to drive home, and you get pulled over and taken in for DUI. A Mistake, is someone who exploited your need for money, so you sold some company secrets to get out of debt. A mistake is you were horny, and you solicited yourself to a prostitute who happened to be an undercover cop. those are mistakes. What Michael Vick did was not a mistake. That was a deliberate, well planned, criminal enterprise, with a DELIBERATE INTENT to abuse, and kill animals. That wasn't a ****ing mistake.

The man is a POS, he had his opportunity, he squandered it. 2 yachts, several properties, the high life, and everything each and everyone of us dreams about living...had it all...and he pissed it away. Screw MICHAEL VICK. SCREW HIS 2nd CHANCE. I hope he never plays another down of professional sports. He's a felon...once a felon always a felon.

I'm not saying the man can't make a living, i'm just saying he shouldn't have the right to do it in the NFL or any other PROFESSIONAL SPORT. it's a privelege to play in the NFL, and if Goodell has any common sense, he'll stamp a big fat BANNED/REJECTED on Vick's application and say "Sorry, we don't want you representing our FINE ORGANIZATION". You had your chance, you screwed it up.

If this were you or me, we'd be in prison for 5 - 10 years, not no lousy 23 months, if not more. So please quit defending this filth, this pig, this POS.

slostenracing
11-16-2008, 02:23 PM
If this were you or me, we'd be in prison for 5 - 10 years, not no lousy 23 months, if not more. So please quit defending this filth, this pig, this POS.

I stopped reading the rant part after thirty points already brought up in this thread were brought up. But this part caught my eye, I love when people say this about celebrities or sports stars or CEOS. They didn't get preferential treatment because of their status, they got preferential treatment cause of the money they threw at a lawyer.