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SLVR and Black
02-17-2010, 12:27 PM
A running back? Ya, good luck with that one. Perhaps they can get someone who's got mad skillz in the open field, but then runs away and cries at the first hint of contact. :)

Justblaze2729
02-17-2010, 01:07 PM
Yes we can finally get rid of Moreno ...

Joke people

:go:

powderblues
02-17-2010, 02:32 PM
Already a thread about this a few spaces down...

Yes we know Cromartie sucks, the Chargers would trade him for a towel boy... we just want him gone, done care what we get for him.

ERoyal248
02-17-2010, 02:35 PM
Already a thread about this a few spaces down...

Yes we know Cromartie sucks, the Chargers would trade him for a towel boy... we just want him gone, done care what we get for him.

Lamont Jordan for Cro, DEAL.

licence_to_kill
02-17-2010, 03:28 PM
Yes we can finally get rid of Moreno ...

Joke people

:go:

Ha

you wish

Accordngs
02-17-2010, 04:45 PM
Ha

you wish

Actually, the Chargers wish.

Moreno's value is WAY higher than Cro's right now.

Cro's play has been in serious decline. He hasn't shown to even be a solid starter yet. Not too mention the guy is a headache off the field. He just lost his grievance today filed by his old agent for never paying the guy. And has 7 kids in 5 states that he wasn't paying support for and is now working it out. Just a headache.

Moreno was nearly a 1000 rusher in his rookie year, showing promise!

licence_to_kill
02-17-2010, 04:58 PM
For all of Cro's faults I would never trade him for a slow RB with no moves who can't break tackles.

At least cro has some athletic potential.

COBronc78
02-17-2010, 05:03 PM
For all of Cro's faults I would never trade him for a slow RB with no moves who can't break tackles.

At least cro has some athletic potential.

ha ha thats hilarious. Moreno is on the rise, guaranteed. Cro, not so much.

Beagle
02-17-2010, 05:21 PM
For all of Cro's faults I would never trade him for a slow RB with no moves who can't break tackles.

At least cro has some athletic potential.

Speed

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d8146c5aa/Knowshon-Moreno-Highlight-WK-11-vs-Chargers-2009

Moves and breaking tackles
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d81485319/WK-12-Knowshon-Moreno-highlights

I would think you were mistaken him for LT but you didn't mention injury riddled or failing to do anything in the playoffs.

licence_to_kill
02-17-2010, 05:43 PM
Neither of those videos are impressive at all.

This, however, is: http://www.youtube.com/watch#playnext=1&playnext_from=TL&videos=Wfh5rm5eeM4&v=PhNhehBHurQ

Andyy_47
02-17-2010, 06:03 PM
Neither of those videos are impressive at all.

This, however, is: http://www.youtube.com/watch#playnext=1&playnext_from=TL&videos=Wfh5rm5eeM4&v=PhNhehBHurQ

Wow, comparing a HoF RB to a rookie is laughable, why did you even bring that up? The arguement was the value of Moreno vs the value of Cro.

licence_to_kill
02-17-2010, 07:17 PM
I already said Cro is more valuable. Moreno has a very low ceiling.

TRUEBRONCOFAN24
02-17-2010, 07:29 PM
I already said Cro is more valuable. Moreno has a very low ceiling.

Dude come on you're better than that... that is complete nonsense.

Andyy_47
02-17-2010, 07:35 PM
I already said Cro is more valuable. Moreno has a very low ceiling.

If you want a 4th year CB who has in the past season been ridiculed by many Chargers fans over a RB who lead all rookies in rushing and racked up over 1,000 yards from scrimmage in his first full season then be my guest. I won't try to argue value since it differs from person to person.

I just don't see the point in bringing LT in the coversation.

ERoyal248
02-17-2010, 07:47 PM
If you want a 4th year CB who has in the past season been ridiculed by many Chargers fans over a RB who lead all rookies in rushing and racked up over 1,000 yards from scrimmage in his first full season then be my guest. I won't try to argue value since it differs from person to person.

I just don't see the point in bringing LT in the coversation.

LOL, dont feed the troll. Moreno obviousally cant get any better, the OL cant block better. Dont feed the 2nd dumbest poster on the board, CD being the first.

ERoyal248
02-17-2010, 07:50 PM
Neither of those videos are impressive at all.

This, however, is: http://www.youtube.com/watch#playnext=1&playnext_from=TL&videos=Wfh5rm5eeM4&v=PhNhehBHurQ

Compare a HOF RB in his prime to a rookie RB who was sharing carries for most of the season.. Good one troll.

SLVR and Black
02-17-2010, 09:38 PM
Compare a HOF RB in his prime to a rookie RB who was sharing carries for most of the season.. Good one troll.
And nobody's thought to compare Moreno's and Tomlinson's rookie seasons yet????

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
02-17-2010, 09:52 PM
And nobody's thought to compare Moreno's and Tomlinson's rookie seasons yet????

LT had 300 more yards rushing, but his avg per carry was less impressive than Moreno's at 3.6. He also fumbled EIGHT times and lost FIVE....

licence_to_kill
02-17-2010, 09:54 PM
LT was also an athletic freak with an extremely high ceiling

Accordngs
02-17-2010, 09:56 PM
Charger fans also told us not that long ago that Cro was the best CB in the league....so yea...not much credibility.

JakeNbake
02-17-2010, 09:57 PM
LT was also an athletic freak with an extremely high ceiling

Freak is the key word.

licence_to_kill
02-17-2010, 10:07 PM
Charger fans also told us not that long ago that Cro was the best CB in the league....so yea...not much credibility.

Well a few years ago that was true.

ERoyal248
02-17-2010, 10:08 PM
Charger fans also told us not that long ago that Cro was the best CB in the league....so yea...not much credibility.

HAHA.. :go:

Beagle
02-17-2010, 10:38 PM
Well a few years ago that was true.

Cro was NEVER the best CB in the league...NEVER thats like saying the Chargers won the Superbowl a few years ago everyone knows it's complete delusion.

ERoyal248
02-17-2010, 10:50 PM
Cro was NEVER the best CB in the league...NEVER thats like saying the Chargers won the Superbowl a few years ago everyone knows it's complete delusion.

Agreed.. Charger fans, so funny. :go:

powderblues
02-17-2010, 11:15 PM
Cromartie is still the best CB.

We demand the Bronco's entire draft selections.

JakeNbake
02-17-2010, 11:16 PM
Cromartie is still the best CB.

We demand the Bronco's entire draft selections.

You've got a deal.

licence_to_kill
02-17-2010, 11:45 PM
Cro was NEVER the best CB in the league...NEVER thats like saying the Chargers won the Superbowl a few years ago everyone knows it's complete delusion.

Yes he was

ERoyal248
02-17-2010, 11:49 PM
Yes he was

No he wasn't troll.

licence_to_kill
02-17-2010, 11:56 PM
No he wasn't troll.

For only starting about half the season he led the league in int's with 10, set the longest play in NFL history, and shut down nearly every receiver he went up against including Randy Moss in the playoffs against the then 17-0 patriots.

suck it

ERoyal248
02-18-2010, 12:11 AM
For only starting about half the season he led the league in int's with 10, set the longest play in NFL history, and shut down nearly every receiver he went up against including Randy Moss in the playoffs against the then 17-0 patriots.

suck it

How has he done after that. :helmet::helmet: 2>>>>>>>>0 suck it troll.

licence_to_kill
02-18-2010, 12:12 AM
How has he done after that. :helmet::helmet: 2>>>>>>>>0 suck it troll.

lrn2readingcomprehension

ERoyal248
02-18-2010, 12:14 AM
lrn2readingcomprehension

2>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>0 suck it troll.. :helmet::helmet:

licence_to_kill
02-18-2010, 12:20 AM
reported for trolling

BroncoPower
02-18-2010, 02:36 AM
A running back? Ya, good luck with that one. Perhaps they can get someone who's got mad skillz in the open field, but then runs away and cries at the first hint of contact. :)

The only thing worth dealing Cromartie for is a bucket of p*ss.

Bootleg
02-18-2010, 03:35 AM
If Cromartie was so good, the Chargers would be able to get something/someone decent in return. The only way they'll get a solid back is draft one. Trade Cro for a 3rd-5th rounder. If he'd been the best CB in the league at any point during the last 3 seasons they'd at least be getting a 2nd for him...he hasn't though.

I've seen flag football played more physically than the way he plays.

Andyy_47
02-18-2010, 03:41 AM
reported for trolling

To be honest he got you there, what has Cro done since? Nothing, 5 picks in two years and he played every game in that timespan.

If Moreno has no ceiling then why the Chargers work him out before the draft?

Sync
02-18-2010, 03:52 AM
http://images.starcraftmazter.net/4chan/for_forums/obvious_troll.jpg

ChargersDivison
02-18-2010, 06:33 AM
Look I'm not afraid to call out Charger fans, because trust me there is some very stupid ones here who know as much about football as Bronco fans.

Cromartie had a very good year, especially in SD's defense, where pressure was coming from DB blitzes and SD played alot of man with 1 deep. So Jammer and Cro were put on islands alot.

No way would SD trade a probowl CB and the most athletically gifted CB in the NFL for Moreno. That'd be dumb by SD.


Cromartie has had 3 good seasons the past 4 years. More than I can say for any CB Den has. Cro's only issue is mentally. Mentally he pulls back on tackling or doesn't get physical all the time or when needed.


Remind us how many ints Champ has had the past 3 years?? ANYONE??

I'll take Cro over Champ for sure. Champ has 1 to 2 years left tops. Get Cro a coach who will ride him in terms of being physical like Jammer and he will be the best CB in the NFL. His coverage is very good, especially in man. His zone got much better and his physical stature 6'2 great speed 210 plus pounds, great ball skills and vertical ability. He's a freak.

ChargersDivison
02-18-2010, 06:38 AM
To be honest he got you there, what has Cro done since? Nothing, 5 picks in two years and he played every game in that timespan.

If Moreno has no ceiling then why the Chargers work him out before the draft?

What Has Champ done since his 10 int season in 06?? 7 ints the past 3 years combined.

You realize there is more to being a CB than ints, right??


Outside his horrible 08 season. In 06, 07 and 09 combined Cromartie has given up a total of 3 tds. PROBOWL LEVEL BEASTIN!

Strimpel
02-18-2010, 07:19 AM
What Has Champ done since his 10 int season in 06?? 7 ints the past 3 years combined.

You realize there is more to being a CB than ints, right??


Outside his horrible 08 season. In 06, 07 and 09 combined Cromartie has given up a total of 3 tds. PROBOWL LEVEL BEASTIN!

Your contradicting yourself. And yes, their is more than INTs. First off champ played about 5 games in 08, and in the games he did play he was plagued with injury. Even so, he's had 202 tackles since 07 and 32 deflected passes. Bailey allowed 0 Tds The past season when he started all 16 games. And he matched up against wayne with 10tds V.J Twice with 9tds and Desean jackson with 9Tds. Who did cromartie match up with those 3 years? He allowed 47 catches for a total of 624 yards. And may I remind you the shut down corner revis allowed 40 for 439 yards. Not bad for a 31 year old corner. Oh and by the way just asking, how many TDs did he give up in 08? :confused: Because he 06 year his was mostly on the bench so I can't imagine you give up TDs playing the dime corner....

Andyy_47
02-18-2010, 08:38 AM
What Has Champ done since his 10 int season in 06?? 7 ints the past 3 years combined.

You realize there is more to being a CB than ints, right??


Outside his horrible 08 season. In 06, 07 and 09 combined Cromartie has given up a total of 3 tds. PROBOWL LEVEL BEASTIN!

Who said anything about champ? And he was injured a lot of games and was the victim of a lousy defense, not a contributor.

Yes there is more to being a CB but even you were moaning about Cromartie this season, and how you want him gone since you have caspn waiting in the wings. Hypocrite.

Keep fishing rod, your ignorance is hilarious.

ChargersDivison
02-18-2010, 08:49 AM
Your contradicting yourself. And yes, their is more than INTs. First off champ played about 5 games in 08, and in the games he did play he was plagued with injury. Even so, he's had 202 tackles since 07 and 32 deflected passes. Bailey allowed 0 Tds The past season when he started all 16 games. And he matched up against wayne with 10tds V.J Twice with 9tds and Desean jackson with 9Tds. Who did cromartie match up with those 3 years? He allowed 47 catches for a total of 624 yards. And may I remind you the shut down corner revis allowed 40 for 439 yards. Not bad for a 31 year old corner. Oh and by the way just asking, how many TDs did he give up in 08? :confused: Because he 06 year his was mostly on the bench so I can't imagine you give up TDs playing the dime corner....

Actually Champ did give up a TD this year. 1 less than Cromartie. In SD's defense, Jammer and Cro line up on 1 side, so they rotate between covering #1 and #2 WR.

I didn't contradict, I just pointed out something someone was bashing Cro for that Champ had a worse case of in terms of lack of ints.

06 Cro was SD's primary nickle not dime.

ChargersDivison
02-18-2010, 08:51 AM
Who said anything about champ? And he was injured a lot of games and was the victim of a lousy defense, not a contributor.

Yes there is more to being a CB but even you were moaning about Cromartie this season, and how you want him gone since you have caspn waiting in the wings. Hypocrite.

Keep fishing rod, your ignorance is hilarious.

I'm pissed at Cromartie's selfish mentality or lack of physical play. But I would never be dumb enough to act like he's some run of the mill bad CB. He's actually a very good CB with huge and I mean huge upside.

SD has good depth at CB with Jammer, Cason and Gregory. Which makes Cro more expendable if the price is right for our top need in which is a RB.

ERoyal248
02-18-2010, 10:36 AM
I'm pissed at Cromartie's selfish mentality or lack of physical play. But I would never be dumb enough to act like he's some run of the mill bad CB. He's actually a very good CB with huge and I mean huge upside.

SD has good depth at CB with Jammer, Cason and Gregory. Which makes Cro more expendable if the price is right for our top need in which is a RB.

Cro has huge upside and is an atheltic freak, but he's not physical in the run game, etc. Cro will never be on the same level as Champ, it's not all about INT't, Nnamdi is a top 2 corner and rarely has any INT's. Jammer is getting older ,he'll be 31. What the hell has Cason done, he's worse then Cro.

ERoyal248
02-18-2010, 10:44 AM
Look I'm not afraid to call out Charger fans, because trust me there is some very stupid ones here who know as much about football as Bronco fans.

Cromartie had a very good year, especially in SD's defense, where pressure was coming from DB blitzes and SD played alot of man with 1 deep. So Jammer and Cro were put on islands alot.

No way would SD trade a probowl CB and the most athletically gifted CB in the NFL for Moreno. That'd be dumb by SD.


Cromartie has had 3 good seasons the past 4 years. More than I can say for any CB Den has. Cro's only issue is mentally. Mentally he pulls back on tackling or doesn't get physical all the time or when needed.


Remind us how many ints Champ has had the past 3 years?? ANYONE??

I'll take Cro over Champ for sure. Champ has 1 to 2 years left tops. Get Cro a coach who will ride him in terms of being physical like Jammer and he will be the best CB in the NFL. His coverage is very good, especially in man. His zone got much better and his physical stature 6'2 great speed 210 plus pounds, great ball skills and vertical ability. He's a freak.

INT's are overrated, Nnamdi is a top 2 corner and he rarely has any INT's, so i guess Cro is better then Nnamdi too, right. Champ doesnt have many years left, neither does Jammer, he'll be 31 this upcoming year.

licence_to_kill
02-18-2010, 11:17 AM
To be honest he got you there, what has Cro done since? Nothing, 5 picks in two years and he played every game in that timespan.

If Moreno has no ceiling then why the Chargers work him out before the draft?

No he didn't. He never even tried to argue the point.

licence_to_kill
02-18-2010, 11:18 AM
INT's are overrated, Nnamdi is a top 2 corner and he rarely has any INT's, so i guess Cro is better then Nnamdi too, right. Champ doesnt have many years left, neither does Jammer, he'll be 31 this upcoming year.

Ok, now prove that.

ChargersDivison
02-18-2010, 11:51 AM
Cro has huge upside and is an atheltic freak, but he's not physical in the run game, etc. Cro will never be on the same level as Champ, it's not all about INT't, Nnamdi is a top 2 corner and rarely has any INT's. Jammer is getting older ,he'll be 31. What the hell has Cason done, he's worse then Cro.

Champ will be 32, Goodman will be 32. Den's CB position is very old also with Law being 37.

Den is gonna be in trouble there.

Cason is young and has played nickle for 2 years in SD and so has Gregory and they even played the 2 and 1 spots.

SD is just fine at CB, Den. Not so much so. In fact their entire secondary is very old. Oldest player in our secondary is Jammer and he's younger than Dawkins, Goodman, Law, Champ, Hill and Vernon Fox. Our second oldest is 27 yr old Gregory.

ChargersDivison
02-18-2010, 11:53 AM
Cro has huge upside and is an atheltic freak, but he's not physical in the run game, etc. Cro will never be on the same level as Champ, it's not all about INT't, Nnamdi is a top 2 corner and rarely has any INT's. Jammer is getting older ,he'll be 31. What the hell has Cason done, he's worse then Cro.

Cason is very physical in the run game and he is mentally much better than Cromartie. He's also good athletic CB with good measureables and size. Worse than Cromartie?? You sound like your are saying Cromartie is bad, which again far from the truth. The areas Cromartie does lack however, Gregory and Cason certainly do not.

Accordngs
02-18-2010, 12:14 PM
Look I'm not afraid to call out Charger fans, because trust me there is some very stupid ones here who know as much about football as Bronco fans.

Cromartie had a very good year, especially in SD's defense, where pressure was coming from DB blitzes and SD played alot of man with 1 deep. So Jammer and Cro were put on islands alot.

No way would SD trade a probowl CB and the most athletically gifted CB in the NFL for Moreno. That'd be dumb by SD.


Cromartie has had 3 good seasons the past 4 years. More than I can say for any CB Den has. Cro's only issue is mentally. Mentally he pulls back on tackling or doesn't get physical all the time or when needed.


Remind us how many ints Champ has had the past 3 years?? ANYONE??

I'll take Cro over Champ for sure. Champ has 1 to 2 years left tops. Get Cro a coach who will ride him in terms of being physical like Jammer and he will be the best CB in the NFL. His coverage is very good, especially in man. His zone got much better and his physical stature 6'2 great speed 210 plus pounds, great ball skills and vertical ability. He's a freak.

Man....you are nuts.

Cro is at BEST worth a 3rd round pick. Moreno's value is higher and so is Champ's.

You were the same guy here telling us that he is the best CB in the league and that after his next season the entire league will now it.

Looks like he isn't even good enough for the dolts to want to keep. They tried offering him for Dallas' 3RD string RB....and Dallas didn't even want it!!! You need to take off the goggles.

And NO....Champ did NOT surrender a TD all year. The only TD NEAR him was a screen pass to Hines Ward when Champ was covering Holmes. He tried to help make the tackle..but it was not his assignment.

http://www.broncosgab.com/2010/01/15/cb-champ-bailey-allowed-no-touchdowns-during-2009-season/

CB Champ Bailey Allowed No Touchdowns During 2009 Season
Posted by Matt Loede on January 15th, 2010 in News

Colorado Springs Gazette beat writer Frank Schwab, the area’s All Pro voter, tracked down detailed stats for the league’s cornerbacks and discovered that Bailey was the only one not to allow a touchdown this season, despite spending much of the season shadowing the opponent’s top receiver (like San Diego’s Vincent Jackson, Indianapolis’ Reggie Wayne and Philadelphia’s DeSean Jackson). According to Stats, Ic., Bailey allowed 47 catches for a total of 624 yards. That’s more than Jets star Darrelle Revis allowed (40 for 439 yards) but that Bailey didn’t allow even a single touchdown is impressive.

ERoyal248
02-18-2010, 12:19 PM
Champ will be 32, Goodman will be 32. Den's CB position is very old also with Law being 37.

Den is gonna be in trouble there.

Cason is young and has played nickle for 2 years in SD and so has Gregory and they even played the 2 and 1 spots.

SD is just fine at CB, Den. Not so much so. In fact their entire secondary is very old. Oldest player in our secondary is Jammer and he's younger than Dawkins, Goodman, Law, Champ, Hill and Vernon Fox. Our second oldest is 27 yr old Gregory.

I agree we need to get a #1 corner to replace Champ in a few years, but Champ played well this year and proved he's still a top 5 corner, safety not as bad. We just drafted McBath who could start this upcoming year for Hill. Bruton looks like a solid all around safety, Barrett is solid and good against tight ends. I like our safety situation. I'm hoping Haden falls to Denver at 10/11, but it probably wont happen. Alphonso had a bad year, he was playing well until his injury against Oakland, i think it's more mental though. Tony Carter surprised when he played, looks like a good nickle. Law may not be back next year, Alphonso will be the nickle, and Carter the #4 CB. Fox is ST, depth at best, probably will get cut.

ChargersDivison
02-18-2010, 12:45 PM
Man....you are nuts.

Cro is at BEST worth a 3rd round pick. Moreno's value is higher and so is Champ's.

You were the same guy here telling us that he is the best CB in the league and that after his next season the entire league will now it.

Looks like he isn't even good enough for the dolts to want to keep. They tried offering him for Dallas' 3RD string RB....and Dallas didn't even want it!!! You need to take off the goggles.

And NO....Champ did NOT surrender a TD all year. The only TD NEAR him was a screen pass to Hines Ward when Champ was covering Holmes. He tried to help make the tackle..but it was not his assignment.

http://www.broncosgab.com/2010/01/15/cb-champ-bailey-allowed-no-touchdowns-during-2009-season/

CB Champ Bailey Allowed No Touchdowns During 2009 Season
Posted by Matt Loede on January 15th, 2010 in News

Colorado Springs Gazette beat writer Frank Schwab, the area’s All Pro voter, tracked down detailed stats for the league’s cornerbacks and discovered that Bailey was the only one not to allow a touchdown this season, despite spending much of the season shadowing the opponent’s top receiver (like San Diego’s Vincent Jackson, Indianapolis’ Reggie Wayne and Philadelphia’s DeSean Jackson). According to Stats, Ic., Bailey allowed 47 catches for a total of 624 yards. That’s more than Jets star Darrelle Revis allowed (40 for 439 yards) but that Bailey didn’t allow even a single touchdown is impressive.

Cromartie is worth much more than a 3rd. Link to Cowboys declining a offer of Cro for Choice please??

Moreno's value is virtually none, same with a old Champ who has proven to be recently injury prone.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/pittsburgh-steelers/09000d5d8141562c/Hines-Ward-2nd-TD-catch

Sure looks to me like Champ gave up a TD, he was in clear site of a chance for a tackle and got punked for a TD.

SLVR and Black
02-18-2010, 01:22 PM
http://www.nfl.com/videos/pittsburgh-steelers/09000d5d8141562c/Hines-Ward-2nd-TD-catch

Sure looks to me like Champ gave up a TD, he was in clear site of a chance for a tackle and got punked for a TD.Looks to me like Champ committed to the wrong side and got caught flat footed -- check out his feet, that's where all the magic happens. Exactly how much time did you spend looking for that anyway?

ERoyal248
02-18-2010, 01:25 PM
Cromartie is worth much more than a 3rd. Link to Cowboys declining a offer of Cro for Choice please??

Moreno's value is virtually none, same with a old Champ who has proven to be recently injury prone.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/pittsburgh-steelers/09000d5d8141562c/Hines-Ward-2nd-TD-catch

Sure looks to me like Champ gave up a TD, he was in clear site of a chance for a tackle and got punked for a TD.

I dont think Dallas ever got a call for the Choice/Cro trade. How is Moreno's value none. Other then 08, Champ has been durable throughout his career. Heres the best corner in the game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCdSxHfzVS0

Accordngs
02-18-2010, 03:56 PM
Cromartie is worth much more than a 3rd. Link to Cowboys declining a offer of Cro for Choice please??

Moreno's value is virtually none, same with a old Champ who has proven to be recently injury prone.

Moreno has no value? LOL! The guy was the leading rookie rusher in the NFL on a team where he shared carries. He was #16 in the league in rushing. Not bad for a guy who wasn't even a starter every game. He had 9 total TD's. I'm not saying he's CJ or ADP....but he has shown plenty of promise and is already a better contributor than Cro.

Champ is still worth much more than Cro even late in his career. Calling him injury prone is a joke. Last year he started every game. In 2008 he started 9 out of 16....and in EVERY year before that he has never not started more than 2 games in a season. In his 11 seasons that totals 176 possible games to start....he has started in 166 --- or 94%....that is injury prone? LOL. I guess the entire Charger team is injury prone by that definition than. Including Gates, Hardwick, McNeil, Merriman, Castillo, Williams, Weddle, etc.
Here ya go:

Here is the relevant quote:
"One source said the team talked with the Dallas Cowboys recently about a deal involving Cowboys running back Tashard Choice, though it was not known whether there were any other components involved in a potential deal. The Cowboys were not interested."

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/feb/17/1s18chargers/

And even "experts" are saying that Cro is probably worth only a 3rd rounder:

ESPN:
"So, if San Diego could get some value for Cromartie, I could see him being shipped out. Realistic compensation for Cromartie is probably a third-round pick."


http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post/_/id/10038/trading-cromartie-isnt-a-horrible-idea



http://www.nfl.com/videos/pittsburgh-steelers/09000d5d8141562c/Hines-Ward-2nd-TD-catch

Sure looks to me like Champ gave up a TD, he was in clear site of a chance for a tackle and got punked for a TD.

Look again amigo. Ward WAS NOT Champ's assignment. He was lined up across from Santonio Holmes.

It was a screen pass that went over to Champ's side after the play began. Not his coverage man. Exactly as I told you....

Before the play Champ on Holmes:
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a271/accordngs/BeginningofPlay.jpg

After catch you can see the balls was thrown to Ward who was not Champ's assignment.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a271/accordngs/AfterCatch.jpg

Andyy_47
02-18-2010, 04:55 PM
No he didn't. He never even tried to argue the point.

He stated the point, put across the question, how has he done after that good season? Maybe not so eloquently, but it was concise enough.

licence_to_kill
02-18-2010, 05:13 PM
He stated the point, put across the question, how has he done after that good season? Maybe not so eloquently, but it was concise enough.

Reading comprehension, this forum needs it.

Andyy_47
02-18-2010, 05:23 PM
Reading comprehension, this forum needs it.

Hmmm, I did comment that he wasn't quite as eloquent with his point as others were, but his point was valid. Cromartie has been far from the star he was 2007.

He didn't expand, but the nucleus of the arguement was there. Unless your "reported for trolling" comment was made in sarcasm, then I don't see what you mean. If that was humour then it would typify your unique brand of contributions to these boards.

licence_to_kill
02-18-2010, 05:33 PM
I have to go to work, so if you haven't figured out why you're both wrong by the time I get back then I will kindly explain it to you.

I have confidence in you.

Andyy_47
02-18-2010, 05:48 PM
I have to go to work, so if you haven't figured out why you're both wrong by the time I get back then I will kindly explain it to you.

I have confidence in you.

You said that a few years ago he was the best CB in the league (still bollocks). We know you said that, but Cro has been nothing but disappointing since then, that's what the other poster was saying. But you injected your stupid one line answer with "lrn2readingcomprehension" instead of saying "I know, I already said that"

ChargersDivison
02-18-2010, 06:11 PM
Moreno has no value? LOL! The guy was the leading rookie rusher in the NFL on a team where he shared carries. He was #16 in the league in rushing. Not bad for a guy who wasn't even a starter every game. He had 9 total TD's. I'm not saying he's CJ or ADP....but he has shown plenty of promise and is already a better contributor than Cro.

Champ is still worth much more than Cro even late in his career. Calling him injury prone is a joke. Last year he started every game. In 2008 he started 9 out of 16....and in EVERY year before that he has never not started more than 2 games in a season. In his 11 seasons that totals 176 possible games to start....he has started in 166 --- or 94%....that is injury prone? LOL. I guess the entire Charger team is injury prone by that definition than. Including Gates, Hardwick, McNeil, Merriman, Castillo, Williams, Weddle, etc.
Here ya go:

Here is the relevant quote:
"One source said the team talked with the Dallas Cowboys recently about a deal involving Cowboys running back Tashard Choice, though it was not known whether there were any other components involved in a potential deal. The Cowboys were not interested."

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/feb/17/1s18chargers/

And even "experts" are saying that Cro is probably worth only a 3rd rounder:

ESPN:
"So, if San Diego could get some value for Cromartie, I could see him being shipped out. Realistic compensation for Cromartie is probably a third-round pick."


http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post/_/id/10038/trading-cromartie-isnt-a-horrible-idea



Look again amigo. Ward WAS NOT Champ's assignment. He was lined up across from Santonio Holmes.

It was a screen pass that went over to Champ's side after the play began. Not his coverage man. Exactly as I told you....

Before the play Champ on Holmes:
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a271/accordngs/BeginningofPlay.jpg

After catch you can see the balls was thrown to Ward who was not Champ's assignment.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a271/accordngs/AfterCatch.jpg

Just compare moreno's production to a injury prone Buckhalter in the same system. Didn't Moreno avg 3.3 YPC or 3.6YPC?? That's on par with LT at his worst, this year at 30. Sorry a probowl CB who is still young at the CB position has 3 times more value than another run of the mill RB who has proven nothing in the NFL. Cromartie has proven alot more, plays a more valuable position which is tougher to acquire talent at. He's flat out a better CB than Moreno is a RB and rather easily to.

Despite his poor display in the playoffs in TACKLING Green on 2 plays and occasionally throughout the season in tackling at SOME spots, Cromartie had a very good season that was top 10 like. His numbers don't lie, check the metrics or do I have to post them and compare them to others for you? On top of SD's 1 deep defense which had alot of pressure coming from DB blitzes and Jammer and Cro in single coverage alot more than most all CB's.

Meanwhile Moreno was out produced by what a 30 yr old RB with knee problems in the same system.

No chance does Champ have the value Cromartie does. Champ is gonna be 32 yrs old. He has 2 years left at best. Cro has 8 to 9 years left. Not even close, seriously.

I guess it just seemed like Champ was injured alot, because without the aid of a good pass rush his play was not note worthy. Lets be honest! 07 and 08 struggled/bad/average seasons at best. But with a pass rush he played much better. Which most CB's do.


So now you put stock into what Willimson says on his AFCW blogs?? His opinion is comparable to NFL GM's and what their opinion of a players worth is. He is the holy bible in NFL trade stock?? Get real.

As for the signonsandiego article, as it says they don't know what other components were involved. SD could of asked for Choice and a 2nd rd pick.

Doesn't matter if it wasn't his assignment, isn't that what you guys said WEEK 1 2008 with Weddle vs Rosario Panthers TE?? But this incident with Champ gave him higher probability of making a play/tackle/preventing the TD than Weddle's did.

ERoyal248
02-18-2010, 07:17 PM
Just compare moreno's production to a injury prone Buckhalter in the same system. Didn't Moreno avg 3.3 YPC or 3.6YPC?? That's on par with LT at his worst, this year at 30. Sorry a probowl CB who is still young at the CB position has 3 times more value than another run of the mill RB who has proven nothing in the NFL. Cromartie has proven alot more, plays a more valuable position which is tougher to acquire talent at. He's flat out a better CB than Moreno is a RB and rather easily to.

Despite his poor display in the playoffs in TACKLING Green on 2 plays and occasionally throughout the season in tackling at SOME spots, Cromartie had a very good season that was top 10 like. His numbers don't lie, check the metrics or do I have to post them and compare them to others for you? On top of SD's 1 deep defense which had alot of pressure coming from DB blitzes and Jammer and Cro in single coverage alot more than most all CB's.

Meanwhile Moreno was out produced by what a 30 yr old RB with knee problems in the same system.

No chance does Champ have the value Cromartie does. Champ is gonna be 32 yrs old. He has 2 years left at best. Cro has 8 to 9 years left. Not even close, seriously.

I guess it just seemed like Champ was injured alot, because without the aid of a good pass rush his play was not note worthy. Lets be honest! 07 and 08 struggled/bad/average seasons at best. But with a pass rush he played much better. Which most CB's do.


So now you put stock into what Willimson says on his AFCW blogs?? His opinion is comparable to NFL GM's and what their opinion of a players worth is. He is the holy bible in NFL trade stock?? Get real.

As for the signonsandiego article, as it says they don't know what other components were involved. SD could of asked for Choice and a 2nd rd pick.

Doesn't matter if it wasn't his assignment, isn't that what you guys said WEEK 1 2008 with Weddle vs Rosario Panthers TE?? But this incident with Champ gave him higher probability of making a play/tackle/preventing the TD than Weddle's did.

LT avg'd 3.6 yds a carry his rookie year, 5 fumbles, 4 lost. You realize Moreno is a rookie, shared carries and is not 3-4 years into his career, right troll?

ChargersDivison
02-18-2010, 07:37 PM
LT avg'd 3.6 yds a carry his rookie year, 5 fumbles, 4 lost. You realize Moreno is a rookie, shared carries and is not 3-4 years into his career, right troll?

LT proved himself, LT had 1200 plus rushing yds, 1600 plus yds from scrimmage.

Moreno didn't even have 1200 yds from scrimmage with so called one of the best o-lines according to Bronco fans... :incomplete:


LT's worst year is basically as good as Moreno's best year. LT's 09 season.

Don't compare a 1st ballot HOF'er to some average rookie run of the mill RB who has proven nothing.

licence_to_kill
02-18-2010, 10:22 PM
Moreno's athletic ceiling is also extremely low compared to LT's which is pretty sad considering how high he was picked.

Accordngs
02-18-2010, 10:32 PM
Just compare moreno's production to a injury prone Buckhalter in the same system. Didn't Moreno avg 3.3 YPC or 3.6YPC?? That's on par with LT at his worst, this year at 30. Sorry a probowl CB who is still young at the CB position has 3 times more value than another run of the mill RB who has proven nothing in the NFL. Cromartie has proven alot more, plays a more valuable position which is tougher to acquire talent at. He's flat out a better CB than Moreno is a RB and rather easily to.

Despite his poor display in the playoffs in TACKLING Green on 2 plays and occasionally throughout the season in tackling at SOME spots, Cromartie had a very good season that was top 10 like. His numbers don't lie, check the metrics or do I have to post them and compare them to others for you? On top of SD's 1 deep defense which had alot of pressure coming from DB blitzes and Jammer and Cro in single coverage alot more than most all CB's.

Meanwhile Moreno was out produced by what a 30 yr old RB with knee problems in the same system.

No chance does Champ have the value Cromartie does. Champ is gonna be 32 yrs old. He has 2 years left at best. Cro has 8 to 9 years left. Not even close, seriously.

I guess it just seemed like Champ was injured alot, because without the aid of a good pass rush his play was not note worthy. Lets be honest! 07 and 08 struggled/bad/average seasons at best. But with a pass rush he played much better. Which most CB's do.


So now you put stock into what Willimson says on his AFCW blogs?? His opinion is comparable to NFL GM's and what their opinion of a players worth is. He is the holy bible in NFL trade stock?? Get real.

As for the signonsandiego article, as it says they don't know what other components were involved. SD could of asked for Choice and a 2nd rd pick.

Doesn't matter if it wasn't his assignment, isn't that what you guys said WEEK 1 2008 with Weddle vs Rosario Panthers TE?? But this incident with Champ gave him higher probability of making a play/tackle/preventing the TD than Weddle's did.

Moreno averaged 3.8ypc. No one here is arguing that he is a hall of famer right now. But he has shown promise to be a solid RB in this league.

Why don't you put that into perspective...

Rookie year:
Emmitt Smith - 3.9ypc
Walter Payton - 3.5ypc
Ladanian Tomlinson - 3.6ypc
Marshall Faulk - 3.7ypc (2nd year) 3.0ypc (3rd year)
Marcus Allen - 3.8ypc (2nd year)
Thomas Jones - 3.3ypc
Ricky Williams - 3.5ypc

and I can go on. The point is all of those guys went on to have great careers..many of them hall of fame. Including your beloved LT. So to say that Moreno has no potential because of a 3.8ypc on a rookie season. He wore down near the end, he admitted it. His ypc was over 4 for most of the season until the end. He's a rookie and will adjust to the longer season.


With Cro the league's seen what they will get. An average corner cover, and a terrible tackler and undisciplined player with good athletic ability. That's it...its not going to change after 4 years in the NFL.

That UT article did say there could be other factors...but it was clear on one thing...the Cowboys weren't interested in Cromartie. I am sure if they were they would of discussed a way to make it happen. They didn't even want to talk about trading for a 3rd string RB.

Champs value is higher. Sure he is getting older, but he still plays at a high level. The guy had a great year. He tackles probably better than 99% of other corners in the league and rarely gets beat. Teams barely even throw at the guy which is a huge intangible that can't even be calculated in stats. Teams never fear Cro...they TARGET him for a reason.

It doesn't matter if Champ made the tackle in regard to Wards' TD. The fact is it wasn't his man in coverage...so it doesn't count as his stat for a TD. That is way different than a Safety like Weddle. Weddle was in a zone coverage and that was his area to cover with Rosario. Champ was in man-man coverage on Holmes. Your reaching desperately and comparing apples and oranges.

Accordngs
02-18-2010, 10:37 PM
Moreno's athletic ceiling is also extremely low compared to LT's which is pretty sad considering how high he was picked.

That makes a lot of sense. So I guess every RB drafted in the top 12 should be as athletically gifted as LT?

You guys like to come here and argue LT is the best RB to play...so how can anyone compare to him? Especially a rookie????

You Charger fans seem to forget that LT's rookie year was anything but spectacular....

3.6ypc, 8 fumbles! 10 total TD's 1236 yards on 336 carries

Moreno
3.8ypc, 4 fumbles, 9 total TD's 947 yards on 247 carries

Good thing you guys weren't judging LT back then....you guys would of said he had a low ceiling with no potential.

Other than the 40 yard dash Knowshon was almost identical to LT at the combine.

40 yd dash
KM - 4.55
LT - 4.38

20ss
KM - 4.27
LT - 4.21

3 Cone
KM - 6.84
LT - 6.84

Bench Press
KM - 25
LT 18

Vert
KM - 35.5
LT - 40.5

ERoyal248
02-18-2010, 10:58 PM
That makes a lot of sense. So I guess every RB drafted in the top 12 should be as athletically gifted as LT?

You guys like to come here and argue LT is the best RB to play...so how can anyone compare to him? Especially a rookie????

You Charger fans seem to forget that LT's rookie year was anything but spectacular....

3.6ypc, 8 fumbles! 10 total TD's 1236 yards on 336 carries

Moreno
3.8ypc, 4 fumbles, 9 total TD's 947 yards on 347 carries

Good thing you guys weren't judging LT back then....you guys would of said he had a low ceiling with no potential.

Other than the 40 yard dash Knowshon was almost identical to LT at the combine.

40 yd dash
KM - 4.55
LT - 4.38

20ss
KM - 4.27
LT - 4.21

3 Cone
KM - 6.84
LT - 6.84

Bench Press
KM - 25
LT 18

Vert
KM - 35.5
LT - 40.5

Knowshon only had 247 carries his rookie year, but agree with all of it.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=12516

licence_to_kill
02-18-2010, 11:00 PM
40 yd dash
KM - 4.55
LT - 4.38

hahahahahahaha

ERoyal248
02-18-2010, 11:33 PM
hahahahahahaha

2>>>>>>>>>>>0 :helmet: :helmet: hahahahahahahhahaa

Andyy_47
02-19-2010, 05:49 AM
hahahahahahaha

Emmitt Smith ran a 4.8 40 yard dash at his college combine. Not saying Moreno is going to be as good as Emmitt Smith, but even he was considered too slow for the pros, look how that turned out.

Jerry Rice is the greatest football player ever to play, he ran a 4.7

ChargersDivison
02-19-2010, 10:51 AM
Moreno averaged 3.8ypc. No one here is arguing that he is a hall of famer right now. But he has shown promise to be a solid RB in this league.

Why don't you put that into perspective...

Rookie year:
Emmitt Smith - 3.9ypc
Walter Payton - 3.5ypc
Ladanian Tomlinson - 3.6ypc
Marshall Faulk - 3.7ypc (2nd year) 3.0ypc (3rd year)
Marcus Allen - 3.8ypc (2nd year)
Thomas Jones - 3.3ypc
Ricky Williams - 3.5ypc

and I can go on. The point is all of those guys went on to have great careers..many of them hall of fame. Including your beloved LT. So to say that Moreno has no potential because of a 3.8ypc on a rookie season. He wore down near the end, he admitted it. His ypc was over 4 for most of the season until the end. He's a rookie and will adjust to the longer season.


With Cro the league's seen what they will get. An average corner cover, and a terrible tackler and undisciplined player with good athletic ability. That's it...its not going to change after 4 years in the NFL.

That UT article did say there could be other factors...but it was clear on one thing...the Cowboys weren't interested in Cromartie. I am sure if they were they would of discussed a way to make it happen. They didn't even want to talk about trading for a 3rd string RB.

Champs value is higher. Sure he is getting older, but he still plays at a high level. The guy had a great year. He tackles probably better than 99% of other corners in the league and rarely gets beat. Teams barely even throw at the guy which is a huge intangible that can't even be calculated in stats. Teams never fear Cro...they TARGET him for a reason.

It doesn't matter if Champ made the tackle in regard to Wards' TD. The fact is it wasn't his man in coverage...so it doesn't count as his stat for a TD. That is way different than a Safety like Weddle. Weddle was in a zone coverage and that was his area to cover with Rosario. Champ was in man-man coverage on Holmes. Your reaching desperately and comparing apples and oranges.

Again all those RB's proved themselves as their career went on. I'm also sure all of them had over 1200 yds from scrimmage and 10 or more tds, I haven't checked. But if they played as many games as Moreno I'm sure they did. Even if they didn't. Until Moreno proves he is anything more than a average at best if that rookie, then his value is little to none. Especially for a position that is easy to get.

Cro is better than ok in coverage. He's very good in coverage, allowing 3 tds in 06, 07 and 09 combined.

Champ was targeted 92 times in 09, Cromartie 79 times, Jammer 82 times. Cromartie has amazing ball skills, play maker ability, athletic ability and just his pure size and speed is huge to teams. He lacks maturity which is easy to develop and the will to be physical all the time. Which again is a teachable attribute.

For all we know SD asked for a 2nd and Choice for Cromartie. Not to mention Dal already has Jenkins and Newman. The fact that Shaun Phillips basically broke the story that DAL and SD was talking indicates the interest DAL still has in Cromartie.

You are overrating Champ. He's not the CB he used to be and without a pass rush he's very vulnerable in coverage and to big plays. He probably has 1 or 2 more years left at best playing at the level he played at in 09. No way does he have more value, that's just crazy. If he was 4 years younger, than yeah definitely.

Fact is Champ was in much better position in stopping Ward than Weddle was Rosario. Ward went to Champ's side of the field. Weddle broke off his guy while in coverage to try and deflect the pass to Rosario.

Accordngs
02-19-2010, 11:49 AM
Knowshon only had 247 carries his rookie year, but agree with all of it.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=12516

typo - will correct!

Accordngs
02-19-2010, 12:14 PM
Again all those RB's proved themselves as their career went on. I'm also sure all of them had over 1200 yds from scrimmage and 10 or more tds, I haven't checked. But if they played as many games as Moreno I'm sure they did. Even if they didn't. Until Moreno proves he is anything more than a average at best if that rookie, then his value is little to none. Especially for a position that is easy to get.

Cro is better than ok in coverage. He's very good in coverage, allowing 3 tds in 06, 07 and 09 combined.

Champ was targeted 92 times in 09, Cromartie 79 times, Jammer 82 times. Cromartie has amazing ball skills, play maker ability, athletic ability and just his pure size and speed is huge to teams. He lacks maturity which is easy to develop and the will to be physical all the time. Which again is a teachable attribute.

For all we know SD asked for a 2nd and Choice for Cromartie. Not to mention Dal already has Jenkins and Newman. The fact that Shaun Phillips basically broke the story that DAL and SD was talking indicates the interest DAL still has in Cromartie.

You are overrating Champ. He's not the CB he used to be and without a pass rush he's very vulnerable in coverage and to big plays. He probably has 1 or 2 more years left at best playing at the level he played at in 09. No way does he have more value, that's just crazy. If he was 4 years younger, than yeah definitely.

Fact is Champ was in much better position in stopping Ward than Weddle was Rosario. Ward went to Champ's side of the field. Weddle broke off his guy while in coverage to try and deflect the pass to Rosario.

I completely disagree with everything you said about Champ and Cro. I think Cro's value will be seen in the near future and I'll just offer you up some crow then.
Champ even in his old age was better than Cro this year:

Champ:
Thrown at 92 times - 53.3% completion
Avg. yds per catch - 12.1
Passes defended - 9
Missed tackles - 5
Yards allowed after catch - 186
Long allowed - 50yds
Int's - 3
TD's allowed - 0
Penalties Committed - 1
Opposing QB passer rating when throwing at him: 63.3
Total plays in 2009/10 season - 1037 (5th among all CBs!!!)

Cro
Thrown at 79 times - 57% completion
Avg. yds per catch - 12.1
Passes defended - 6
Missed tackles - 6 (not counting the awesome playoff one's)
Yards allowed after catch - 178
Long allowed - 49yds
Int's - 3
TD's allowed - 2
Penalties Committed - 3
Opposing QB passer rating when throwing at him: 70.9
Total plays in 2009/10 season - 895 (37th among CB's)


On to Moreno:
Moreno only started in 9 games. He had a total of 247 carries.... that's only 15 a game. You are acting like he was the featured back every game for a full season. Not too mention he had to play through some injuries. All I am saying that you guys are nuts if you are ALREADY saying that Moreno is no good and won't be. The guy had as good of rookie campaign as all those hall of famers...and no one is saying they were scrubs with a low ceiling.

You are just reaching...and your hatred for the Broncos is creating a huge bias against Moreno. You look at his stats objectively compared to those listed above in the rookie year...you can't say the things you did.

But here's the info you wanted:

Emmitt : 937 yards, 11 total TD's (241 attempts)
Payton: 679 yards, 7 total TD's (196 attempts)
LT: 1236 yards, 10 total TD's (339 attempts)
Faulk: 1078 yards, 14 total TD's (289 attempts) 2nd year, 587 yards, 7 total TD's (198 attempts) 3rd year
Allen: 1014 yards, 11 total TD's (266 attempts) 2nd year
Jones: 373 yards, 2 total TD's (112 attempts)
Williams: 884 yards, 2 total TD's (253 attempts)


So Moreno's numbers still stack up right with them:

Moreno: 947 yards, 9 total TD's, (247 attempts)

The fact of the matter is it was just like I said...he was a rookie that wore down in the last part of the season. My point in case:

Moreno through 12 games:
182 carries, 774 yards = 4.25 ypc

Moreno through last 4 games:
65 carries, 173 yards = 2.66 ypc

He will adjust to the longer season, work harder and easily break 1000 yards next season.

Accordngs
02-19-2010, 12:16 PM
hahahahahahaha

He was actually timed running a 4.46 and 4.48 at Georgia. He didn't run well at the combine. But he has decent burst on the field. No one claims he is Chris Johnson here.

The combine shows he was as quick in the short field as LT, as nimble through the cones, and much stronger having benched 7 more reps than baby LT.

ChargersDivison
02-19-2010, 12:59 PM
I completely disagree with everything you said about Champ and Cro. I think Cro's value will be seen in the near future and I'll just offer you up some crow then.
Champ even in his old age was better than Cro this year:

Champ:
Thrown at 92 times - 53.3% completion
Avg. yds per catch - 12.1
Passes defended - 9
Missed tackles - 5
Yards allowed after catch - 186
Long allowed - 50yds
Int's - 3
TD's allowed - 0
Penalties Committed - 1
Opposing QB passer rating when throwing at him: 63.3
Total plays in 2009/10 season - 1037 (5th among all CBs!!!)

Cro
Thrown at 79 times - 57% completion
Avg. yds per catch - 12.1
Passes defended - 6
Missed tackles - 6 (not counting the awesome playoff one's)
Yards allowed after catch - 178
Long allowed - 49yds
Int's - 3
TD's allowed - 2
Penalties Committed - 3
Opposing QB passer rating when throwing at him: 70.9
Total plays in 2009/10 season - 895 (37th among CB's)


On to Moreno:
Moreno only started in 9 games. He had a total of 247 carries.... that's only 15 a game. You are acting like he was the featured back every game for a full season. Not too mention he had to play through some injuries. All I am saying that you guys are nuts if you are ALREADY saying that Moreno is no good and won't be. The guy had as good of rookie campaign as all those hall of famers...and no one is saying they were scrubs with a low ceiling.

You are just reaching...and your hatred for the Broncos is creating a huge bias against Moreno. You look at his stats objectively compared to those listed above in the rookie year...you can't say the things you did.

But here's the info you wanted:

Emmitt : 937 yards, 11 total TD's (241 attempts)
Payton: 679 yards, 7 total TD's (196 attempts)
LT: 1236 yards, 10 total TD's (339 attempts)
Faulk: 1078 yards, 14 total TD's (289 attempts) 2nd year, 587 yards, 7 total TD's (198 attempts) 3rd year
Allen: 1014 yards, 11 total TD's (266 attempts) 2nd year
Jones: 373 yards, 2 total TD's (112 attempts)
Williams: 884 yards, 2 total TD's (253 attempts)


So Moreno's numbers still stack up right with them:

Moreno: 947 yards, 9 total TD's, (247 attempts)

The fact of the matter is it was just like I said...he was a rookie that wore down in the last part of the season. My point in case:

Moreno through 12 games:
182 carries, 774 yards = 4.25 ypc

Moreno through last 4 games:
65 carries, 173 yards = 2.66 ypc

He will adjust to the longer season, work harder and easily break 1000 yards next season.

Well for Moreno we'll see.

It's much like you guys discrediting Weddle, even though his numbers suggest he is a very good young safety. Very versatile to.

But we'll see how Moreno pans out.


In terms of Cro, you guys swear he had a bad year or his play has digressed, even though the numbers you even posted suggest he had nearly as good of a season as Champ who you guys regard as still being top 3. This was with less of a pass rush for Cromartie.

Accordngs
02-19-2010, 01:35 PM
Well for Moreno we'll see.

It's much like you guys discrediting Weddle, even though his numbers suggest he is a very good young safety. Very versatile to.

But we'll see how Moreno pans out.


In terms of Cro, you guys swear he had a bad year or his play has digressed, even though the numbers you even posted suggest he had nearly as good of a season as Champ who you guys regard as still being top 3. This was with less of a pass rush for Cromartie.

We will see about Moreno.

Cro's year wasn't nearly as good as Champ's like you suggest though. Champ outperformed him in almost every statistical category... lower comp%, lower oppsoing QB rating, etc...and played way more snaps than Cro. Cro was off the field quite often.

ChargersDivison
02-19-2010, 05:35 PM
We will see about Moreno.

Cro's year wasn't nearly as good as Champ's like you suggest though. Champ outperformed him in almost every statistical category... lower comp%, lower oppsoing QB rating, etc...and played way more snaps than Cro. Cro was off the field quite often.

They were relatively close enough that suggesting he had a bad year would mean Champ had an average year.

SD's D was on the field less than Den's, due to our offense. Jammer has less snaps than Champ to.

RaiderFanSD
02-19-2010, 05:46 PM
Well for Moreno we'll see.

It's much like you guys discrediting Weddle, even though his numbers suggest he is a very good young safety. Very versatile to.

But we'll see how Moreno pans out.


In terms of Cro, you guys swear he had a bad year or his play has digressed, even though the numbers you even posted suggest he had nearly as good of a season as Champ who you guys regard as still being top 3. This was with less of a pass rush for Cromartie.

Yes, he's a very good young safety!
http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/6169/greenejets.gif

Had to :P

Accordngs
02-19-2010, 05:48 PM
They were relatively close enough that suggesting he had a bad year would mean Champ had an average year.

SD's D was on the field less than Den's, due to our offense. Jammer has less snaps than Champ to.

Jammer was on 949 times - this is 54 more times than Cro. That's a pretty good amount more.

The numbers look close but aren't really. For CB's small differences are huge.

i.e. - Champ was 13 in the NFL among starting CB's for comp % and Cro was 25th.

Opposing QB passer rating for Champ is 12th in the NFL, and for Cro would be 26th.

Champ is 10th in tackles, Cro was 71st.
Champ is 19th in passes defended, Cro was 47th.

and it goes on.....in other words...don't let those stats fool you into thinking he was close.

DevilSpawn
02-19-2010, 07:00 PM
I've seen the Cromartie act before. His athletic ability far outshines his ability as a football player.

Ten years ago I'd say Oakland could turn him into a stud. No longer.

BroncoFanBoy
02-19-2010, 08:51 PM
Actually, the Chargers wish.

Moreno's value is WAY higher than Cro's right now.

Cro's play has been in serious decline. He hasn't shown to even be a solid starter yet. Not too mention the guy is a headache off the field. He just lost his grievance today filed by his old agent for never paying the guy. And has 7 kids in 5 states that he wasn't paying support for and is now working it out. Just a headache.

Moreno was nearly a 1000 rusher in his rookie year, showing promise!

Cromartie is a one year wonder. he was a beast in 07 then sucked afterwards.

Accordngs
02-20-2010, 12:38 PM
Cromartie is a one year wonder. he was a beast in 07 then sucked afterwards.

It was a solid year for him.

He played the nickel which meant he was usually guarding a WR that was deep in the QB's progressions....this would give Cro a lot more time to react and this is when his athleticism came into play.

I've always said that if I was Norv I would put him right back as the nickel corner because this seems like one place he has a chance to excel. Safety wouldn't work since he's so soft.

jhildebrand
02-20-2010, 12:56 PM
http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/6169/greenejets.gif

This is precisely the reason Cromartie wont make it in the NFL as a safety.

SLVR and Black
02-20-2010, 03:58 PM
This is precisely the reason Cromartie wont make it in the NFL as a safety.Looks like the Pats and Pats may be showing a bit of interest. Thomas Jones or Larwrence Maroney? It'd be really interesting to see what affect Belichick would have on Cro.

Accordngs
02-20-2010, 07:25 PM
http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/6169/greenejets.gif

This is precisely the reason Cromartie wont make it in the NFL as a safety.

Also the same reason I think Weddle isn't a true safety. I wouldn't want that guy as my last line of defense when he gets run over by a 5'11" 226lb RB.

Dolt fans have been on Weddle and Cro's jock...but if either of them could make a tackle they might win that game. Instead they only want to look at Nate Finkel's missed kicks.

ChargersDivison
02-20-2010, 11:24 PM
Also the same reason I think Weddle isn't a true safety. I wouldn't want that guy as my last line of defense when he gets run over by a 5'11" 226lb RB.

Dolt fans have been on Weddle and Cro's jock...but if either of them could make a tackle they might win that game. Instead they only want to look at Nate Finkel's missed kicks.

Yeah because every safety hasn't been run over before by much less physical RB's than Shonne Green.

I've seen Dawkins run over plenty and completely wiff on tackles.

Sorry Weddle is a stud. That's the first time I've seen him run over or even miss a tackle. He atleast got in there and attempted it.

Kaeding was why we lost. But he's still 5 times the kicker Pooper is or whatever that clown in Den's name is.

Weddle >> Dawkins

http://www.profootballfocus.com/by_position.php?tab=by_position&season=2009&pos=S&stype=r&runpass=&teamid=-1&numsnaps=25&numgames=1

His INT's are actually in coverage and not standing around field punt like deflected passes that other players deflect.

ChargersDivison
02-20-2010, 11:25 PM
Cromartie is a one year wonder. he was a beast in 07 then sucked afterwards.

He was a beast in his rookie year as a nickle and had a good year this year. He's had 1 bad year due to injury.

He's better than any CB Den has had lately outside of Champ. Goodman?? Really?? Bly?? CMON MAN!!

SLVR and Black
02-21-2010, 12:28 AM
He was a beast in his rookie year as a nickle and had a good year this year. He's had 1 bad year due to injury.

He's better than any CB Den has had lately outside of Champ. Goodman?? Really?? Bly?? CMON MAN!!
Please. If he stays with the Chargers, he's not even a lock to start. :rolleyes:

ChargersDivison
02-21-2010, 03:20 PM
Please. If he stays with the Chargers, he's not even a lock to start. :rolleyes:

Again that has more to do with his mentality than skill set. Skill set is very good and probowl level. Mentality and toughness on a consistent basis, practice squad. You get someone who can instill that in him, which is very very doable. Cromartie would be top 3 CB in the NFL. He needs a hard ass to ride him though.

mozzerpete
02-21-2010, 03:54 PM
Neither of those videos are impressive at all.

This, however, is: http://www.youtube.com/watch#playnext=1&playnext_from=TL&videos=Wfh5rm5eeM4&v=PhNhehBHurQ

There is no comparison, LT is a beast.
RB K. Moreno is hopefully on his way but
he seems to lack that NFL big time play.

SLVR and Black
02-21-2010, 05:36 PM
Again that has more to do with his mentality than skill set. Skill set is very good and probowl level.Ryan Leaf, Jeff George, Jamarcus Russell, Lawrence Phillips, etc.... Attitude problems are very, very difficult things to fix.

Hatake.
02-21-2010, 09:12 PM
Cason is very physical in the run game and he is mentally much better than Cromartie. He's also good athletic CB with good measureables and size. Worse than Cromartie?? You sound like your are saying Cromartie is bad, which again far from the truth. The areas Cromartie does lack however, Gregory and Cason certainly do not.

Cason reminds me of Richard Marshall...

Marshall just is just more of a ballhawk.

Accordngs
02-22-2010, 12:48 AM
Weddle >> Dawkins


Did you stop taking your meds today ROD?