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View Full Version : Orton Can Throw DEEP: The Myth Busted



JohnShaft
04-07-2010, 07:02 PM
People are still trotting out the belief Orton can throw deep (thread (http://forum.denverbroncos.com/showthread.php?t=164831))

In response I've put together the following stats (using ESPN's accurate data (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/splits?playerId=8520) tracking throwing ranges) to expose the truth once and for all. This wasn't a quick endevour, but worth it to show those who insist he can are just plain wrong. Let alone those who say he's one of the best deep throwers in football (I mean, come ON).

The top 14 QB's (Every QB up to Orton), by rating, last year.
Their attempts/accuracy on balls thrown 30+ yards the last two seasons.


PLAYER COMP ATT PERC (%)
Brees 21 50 42
Favre 11 42 26
Rivers 21 53 40
Rodgers 18 51 35
Roeth' 13 43 30
Peyton 13 54 24
Schaub 10 26 38
Romo 20 59 34
Brady 7 27 26
Warner 11 28 39
Eli 12 41 29
McNabb 11 42 26
Flacco 14 56 25
ORTON 4 22 18


(In case I get accused of cherryy-picking) for his career Orton is even worse
7/48, for 14.5%

I won't even go in to the fact that of almost half of his 7 career 30+ completions came last year (3). Two were blown coverages in the same game to Marshall, and one was freak of the century, and a horribly thrown ball, in Week 1.

Truth is Orton has one of the worst deep balls in the game. He simply is almost incapable of completing a deep ball to a receiver who is NFL-open.

He has worse deep numbers than almost every starting Quarterback in the league (MUCH worse than most). If it wasn't for his last year flukes he would clearly shown to be what he is, about the worst deep thrower that you're ever likely to see in an NFL game.


Anyone still want to insist he can throw deep well?

Boltheads
04-07-2010, 07:08 PM
Attempts and Completions are in reverse order. Plus, it should be sorted by % completed or yards per completion.

But....back to your point.....Orton doesn't have a deep ball. That's why he is a good fit for McD's dink and dunk system.

NDBroncosFan
04-07-2010, 07:10 PM
People are still trotting out the belief Orton can throw deep (thread (http://forum.denverbroncos.com/showthread.php?t=164831))

In response I've put together the following stats (using ESPN's accurate data (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/splits?playerId=8520) tracking throwing ranges) to expose the truth once and for all. This wasn't a quick endevour, but worth it to show those who insist he can are just plain wrong. Let alone those who say he's one of the best deep throwers in football (I mean, come ON).

The top 14 QB's (Every QB up to Orton), by rating, last year.
Their attempts/accuracy on balls thrown 30+ yards the last two seasons.


PLAYER ATT COMP PERC (%)
Brees 21 50 42
Favre 11 42 26
Rivers 21 53 40
Rodgers 18 51 35
Roeth' 13 43 30
Peyton 13 54 24
Schaub 10 26 38
Romo 20 59 34
Brady 7 27 26
Warner 11 28 39
Eli 12 41 29
McNabb 11 42 26
Flacco 14 56 25
ORTON 4 22 18


(In case I get accused of cherryy-picking) for his career Orton is even worse
7/48, for 14.5%

I won't even go in to the fact that of almost half of his 7 career 30+ completions came last year (3). Two were blown coverages in the same game to Marshall, and one was freak of the century, and a horribly thrown ball, in Week 1.

Truth is Orton has one of the worst deep balls in the game. He simply is almost incapable of completing a deep ball to a receiver who is NFL-open.

He has worse deep numbers than almost every starting Quarterback in the league (MUCH worse than most). If it wasn't for his last year flukes he would clearly shown to be what he is, about the worst deep thrower that you're ever likely to see in an NFL game.


Anyone still want to insist he can throw deep well?

I know KO is a joke!!!!
Nice work on the stats...I think you have your ATT and COMP switched!

JohnShaft
04-07-2010, 07:12 PM
Attempts and Completions are in reverse order. Plus, it should be sorted by % completed or yards per completion.
Thanks, I changed the headings over.

I thought about sorting by comp %, but you can see how plain it is this way. I'm not taking the most accurate thrower, just the highest rated players from last year (up to and including Kyle Orton).

And MANY of your brethren insist he can throw deep. Some that he does it excellently. Others that he's better than Brady, Manning ansd Rivers at it...

-Rod-
04-07-2010, 07:13 PM
Orton completed two throws with the ball sailing 30+ yards to Marshall against Washington, another one to Marshall against New York and one to Lloyd against Kansas City. 4 throws that I remember without having to dig deeper into game tape. Are you saying that these are the 4 throws that Orton completed in 2 seasons with the ball sailing 30+ yards?

EDIT: Orton completed another one to R. Davis against Atlanta, the ball was thrown from the 27 yard line and caught at least 7 yards deep in the end zone. So, the stats presented are wrong. I already counted 5 completions.

EDIT 2: Not to mention drops by the WRs like the one from Hester against New Orleans and the one from Marshall against Cincinnati. They were throws that sailed 30+ yards and were catchable balls.

Peerless
04-07-2010, 07:13 PM
Cool. I totally new that already.

Cyrend
04-07-2010, 07:17 PM
Orton completed two throws with the ball sailing 30+ yards to Marshall against Washington, another one to Marshall against New York and one to Lloyd against Kansas City. 4 throws that I remember without having to dig deeper into game tape. Are you saying that these are the 4 throws that Orton completed in 2 seasons with the ball sailing 30+ yards?

Lloyd had a couple of long catches against KC, one was the one that put us on the goal line and the other(along the sideline), if it wasnt 30 yards, it had to have been damn close

The Big D
04-07-2010, 07:18 PM
I've never been one to argue that Orton is great deep. Then again, he doesn't necessarily have to be great deep. Brady isn't great deep either, and that's the prototype for this offense. The more important issues is passes 10-15y down field. They're what you need to get cooking in order to move the chains reliably, and that's where Orton and the receiving core need to improve.

Peerless
04-07-2010, 07:19 PM
Oh and, LOL @
ESPN's accurate data.

:laugh:

MNBroncs85
04-07-2010, 07:20 PM
http://freshbread.blogs.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/09/04/captainobvious.jpg

Obvious. He's a game manager:doh:

McSmashie
04-07-2010, 07:20 PM
Thank you for that fresh take, Captain Redundancy!

Do you have any other points that you want to repeat for the 34th time?

:doh: Oh wait, sorry. I forgot you don't have anything else to say except bashing Orton.

Back at it, sir. :salute:

KO8pectate
04-07-2010, 07:23 PM
People are still trotting out the belief Orton can throw deep (thread (http://forum.denverbroncos.com/showthread.php?t=164831))

In response I've put together the following stats (using ESPN's accurate data (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/splits?playerId=8520) tracking throwing ranges) to expose the truth once and for all. This wasn't a quick endevour, but worth it to show those who insist he can are just plain wrong. Let alone those who say he's one of the best deep throwers in football (I mean, come ON).

The top 14 QB's (Every QB up to Orton), by rating, last year.
Their attempts/accuracy on balls thrown 30+ yards the last two seasons.


PLAYER COMP ATT PERC (%)
Brees 21 50 42
Favre 11 42 26
Rivers 21 53 40
Rodgers 18 51 35
Roeth' 13 43 30
Peyton 13 54 24
Schaub 10 26 38
Romo 20 59 34
Brady 7 27 26
Warner 11 28 39
Eli 12 41 29
McNabb 11 42 26
Flacco 14 56 25
ORTON 4 22 18


(In case I get accused of cherryy-picking) for his career Orton is even worse
7/48, for 14.5%

I won't even go in to the fact that of almost half of his 7 career 30+ completions came last year (3). Two were blown coverages in the same game to Marshall, and one was freak of the century, and a horribly thrown ball, in Week 1.

Truth is Orton has one of the worst deep balls in the game. He simply is almost incapable of completing a deep ball to a receiver who is NFL-open.

He has worse deep numbers than almost every starting Quarterback in the league (MUCH worse than most). If it wasn't for his last year flukes he would clearly shown to be what he is, about the worst deep thrower that you're ever likely to see in an NFL game.


Anyone still want to insist he can throw deep well?

You didnt expose anything but the fact that you were wrong .

Espn only has the stats in the splits up to Colts game .


You are wrong and its pretty sad that you did all of this in rebuttal of something and was still wrong .

In addition to the throws Roddoliver mention Orton also hit Scheff deep against Oakland

You should be embarrassed I doubt it though because haters dont feel embarrassment

JohnShaft
04-07-2010, 07:27 PM
You're not counting from the line of scrimmage.

Point remains utterly unless ESPN have set Orton up to look way worse than everyone else?...
:orton:

BroncoSynapses
04-07-2010, 07:27 PM
I've never been one to argue that Orton is great deep. Then again, he doesn't necessarily have to be great deep. Brady isn't great deep either, and that's the prototype for this offense. The more important issues is passes 10-15y down field. They're what you need to get cooking in order to move the chains reliably, and that's where Orton and the receiving core need to improve.

I thought the same thing. The chart shows that Brady had 3 more completions and 5 more attempts than Orton.

Boltheads
04-07-2010, 07:28 PM
I've never been one to argue that Orton is great deep. Then again, he doesn't necessarily have to be great deep. Brady isn't great deep either, and that's the prototype for this offense. The more important issues is passes 10-15y down field. They're what you need to get cooking in order to move the chains reliably, and that's where Orton and the receiving core need to improve.You do watch football.....right?

The Big D
04-07-2010, 07:30 PM
You do watch football.....right?

Damn right I watch football. Brady's never been much of a deep threat. Sure, he CAN throw deep. So can Orton. Neither does very often, or is very accurate when they do.

-Rod-
04-07-2010, 07:30 PM
You're not counting from the line of scrimmage.

Point remains utterly unless ESPN have set Orton up to look way worse than everyone else?...
:orton:

If you won't consider the true distance of the throw than you are just dumb, sorry. It's not like the ball only starts flying after it crosses the line of scrimmage. :laugh:

Then I will also count YAC... And we will have tons of throws with 30+ yards :salute:

JohnShaft
04-07-2010, 07:32 PM
If you won't consider the true distance of the throw than you are just dumb, sorry. It's not like the ball only starts flying after it crosses the line of scrimmage. :laugh:

It's counted the same way for every QB.

Once more: Why are Orton's numbers WAY WORSE using the same method?

The Big D
04-07-2010, 07:33 PM
It's counted the same way for every QB.

Once more: Why are Orton's numbers WAY WORSE using the same method?

They're not way worse than Brady. Why aren't you comparing him to people running the same offense?

RaiderFanSD
04-07-2010, 07:34 PM
You do watch football.....right?

I know right.. he must have not watched the '07 season..

KO8pectate
04-07-2010, 07:36 PM
You're not counting from the line of scrimmage.

Point remains utterly unless ESPN have set Orton up to look way worse than everyone else?...
:orton:

No you basically have convinced yourself something is true and so now you are looking for evidence to try and prove it as so . When the truth is that Orton can throw the deep ball he just hasnt attempted as many as the other Qbs.

The Espn stats are only for 13 games this year and why would use stats spanning two seasons knowing he played for two different teams ? the only other player in a situation like that was FAVRE but he went to the same offense . Every other QB on that list had several years within the same offensive system

Now if we go by this year through 13 games Rivers was 4-13 in the 30-40 range while Orton was 2-5 . Now as I said yesterday there are very few Qbs in the league with a ton of passing in the 30-40 range. Brees for instance this year through 13 games was 5-9 while Manning was 6-24 .

So it goes back to what I said in the other thread you cant be whining about more completions because no one is completing a ton of passes in those ranges you just want more ATTEMPTS but I would rather have more completions personally.

This thread is a EPIC FAIL LOL

-Rod-
04-07-2010, 07:37 PM
LOL now let's see which quarterbacks threw more interceptions in the last two seasons :td:

broncozone
04-07-2010, 07:38 PM
Don't worry Orton will be allright. He said that he is taking his game to a whole new level and I trust him when he says so.

There is lot of unknown with respect to Orton. His Footwork, his stance while delivering ball, his vision i.e locking down only one portion of field and receiver, mobility, always seems uncomfortable in the pocket,delivering ball when pressure on face etc....

:D

JohnShaft
04-07-2010, 07:41 PM
They're not way worse than Brady. Why aren't you comparing him to people running the same offense?
Brady only has a sample for last season duew to Week 1 injury last year.

Careerwise
Brady, 59/200, 30%
Orton, 7/48, 15%

Broncbeat
04-07-2010, 07:41 PM
NFL Career stats for Kyle Orton (http://www.nfl.com/players/kyleorton/careerstats?id=ORT716150)has him with 16 at 40+ yard. It does not have 30-40. It only has 20+ and 40+. He has 103 at 20 +. Fact!

The Big D
04-07-2010, 07:42 PM
Brady only has a sample for last season duew to Week 1 injury last year.

Careerwise
Brady, 59/200, 30%
Orton, 7/48, 15%

Wow, Chicago's receivers sucked balls. Really, you don't say?

The Big D
04-07-2010, 07:43 PM
NFL Career stats for Kyle Orton (http://www.nfl.com/players/kyleorton/careerstats?id=ORT716150)has him with 16 at 40+ yard. It does not have 30-40. It only has 20+ and 40+. He has 103 at 20 +. Fact!

Hmm, I'm starting to smell faked stats from JohnShaft. This could get embarrassing for him FAST.

JohnShaft
04-07-2010, 07:44 PM
NFL Career stats. He has 103 at 20 +. Fact!
Once more these are not deep throws.

They include the Denver-patented 2-yard-screen with 40 sick yards of Brandon Marshall YAC.

Broncbeat
04-07-2010, 07:45 PM
Once more these are not deep throws.

They include the Denver-patented 2-yard-screen with 40 sick yards of Brandon Marshall YAC.

Look who is twisting things to his liking:rolleyes:

broncos1997
04-07-2010, 07:45 PM
what message board have you been reading? i have never once heard anyone argue that orton is good at throwing deep, let alone better than brees and brady. those videos showing him throw to marshall, etc. are to prove that yes, orton is physically capable of throwing for longer than 20 yards. doesn't say anything about how good he is at the deep passing game, but it does prove that he has an nfl arm.

The Big D
04-07-2010, 07:47 PM
Once more these are not deep throws.

They include the Denver-patented 2-yard-screen with 40 sick yards of Brandon Marshall YAC.

You just officially embarrassed yourself. Congratulations. Try using some stats that aren't ****ed up next time.

Bigoosh
04-07-2010, 07:48 PM
I really don't understand why it means a darn thing whether KO can throw the deep ball or not. I mean sure, I live watching the long bomb, its fun and gets the blood flowing. However, I also like watching an efficient QB move his team down the field, which is what Orton does.

I guess I don't understand why so many people have a problem with Orton. Near as I can tell, he did a good job last season. Specially when you consider it was his first year in the season and there were times his line was lacking.

Do I think KO is the best QB since Elway? God no, but I do think he did a good job and am very confused why people want to dis on him so much. Please can someone tell me why Orton is so bad without the tired "he can't throw a ball deep" statement? I mean if that is your only legitimate knock on KO then I think we are pretty damn lucky.:logo:

JohnShaft
04-07-2010, 07:49 PM
Look who is twisting things to his liking:rolleyes:
If you don't get why YAC-included throws don't show deep throwing ability you're really missing the point.

These stats include no YAC for everyone. Kyle is still in among the NFL's worst.


what message board have you been reading? i have never once heard anyone argue that orton is good at throwing deep.
Your own board. Your own thread (http://forum.denverbroncos.com/showthread.php?t=164831). Noted posters like Alastor and Hoserman.

JohnShaft
04-07-2010, 07:50 PM
You just officially embarrassed yourself. Congratulations. Try using some stats that aren't ****ed up next time.
Try reading the first post next time. No-one looks at YAC throws to evaluate deep throwing ability.

Well, some special people I guess...

Broncoyearound
04-07-2010, 07:51 PM
People are still trotting out the belief Orton can throw deep (thread (http://forum.denverbroncos.com/showthread.php?t=164831))

In response I've put together the following stats (using ESPN's accurate data (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/splits?playerId=8520) tracking throwing ranges) to expose the truth once and for all. This wasn't a quick endevour, but worth it to show those who insist he can are just plain wrong. Let alone those who say he's one of the best deep throwers in football (I mean, come ON).

The top 14 QB's (Every QB up to Orton), by rating, last year.
Their attempts/accuracy on balls thrown 30+ yards the last two seasons.


PLAYER COMP ATT PERC (%)
Brees 21 50 42
Favre 11 42 26
Rivers 21 53 40
Rodgers 18 51 35
Roeth' 13 43 30
Peyton 13 54 24
Schaub 10 26 38
Romo 20 59 34
Brady 7 27 26
Warner 11 28 39
Eli 12 41 29
McNabb 11 42 26
Flacco 14 56 25
ORTON 4 22 18


(In case I get accused of cherryy-picking) for his career Orton is even worse
7/48, for 14.5%

I won't even go in to the fact that of almost half of his 7 career 30+ completions came last year (3). Two were blown coverages in the same game to Marshall, and one was freak of the century, and a horribly thrown ball, in Week 1.

Truth is Orton has one of the worst deep balls in the game. He simply is almost incapable of completing a deep ball to a receiver who is NFL-open.

He has worse deep numbers than almost every starting Quarterback in the league (MUCH worse than most). If it wasn't for his last year flukes he would clearly shown to be what he is, about the worst deep thrower that you're ever likely to see in an NFL game.


Anyone still want to insist he can throw deep well?

Why do we insist on beating on a dead horse all the time? Orton is who he is. Our starting qb until he is replaced by our next qb. It doesn't matter if he can go deep or can't. If he can win games for you then the rest of that stuff is irrelevant such as deep balls and percentage. Winning matters and if Orton can win on a consistent basis then why argue about dumb things such as throwing the ball deep.

Main point is we need to let this topic go. Its been discussed thousands of times and if you don't like him then tough cause he's starting whether you like it or not. Have a good day and don't forget to :) for :orton: Cause he is your starting qb for the Denver Broncos...Fact.

JohnShaft
04-07-2010, 07:53 PM
Why do we insist on beating on a dead horse all the time? Orton is who he is.
To clarify: I'm not posting this for people like yourself who know this.

I'm posting it for those who insist he throws deep well. Or better than well...

Those who already don't think he does, well, I'm already with ya.

KO8pectate
04-07-2010, 07:56 PM
To clarify: I'm not posting this for people like yourself who know this.

I'm posting it for those who insist he throws deep well. Or better than well...

Those who already don't think he does, well, I'm already with ya.

how can you post lies and misleading stats to show anyone anything ?

You are embarrassing yourself .

Hoserman117
04-07-2010, 07:58 PM
So wait, just to clarify, these are stats from the last 2 season?

TH3JUICEMAN
04-07-2010, 07:58 PM
http://freshbread.blogs.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/09/04/captainobvious.jpg



Did nobody else notice this guys cunning resemblence to Cutler? I bout spit my drink out when I saw the pic and then compared it to Johnwacks avatar

JohnShaft
04-07-2010, 07:59 PM
how can you post lies and misleading stats to show anyone anything ?
You are embarrassing yourself .

The stats are valid.

And they only make Orton look suckage.

Go to ESPN and find them even slightly significantly miscalculated for any of those QB's.

Comparing him to tother QBs using the same source, they only make Orton look bad.

Of course you're not interested in really looking in to it like I have.

JohnShaft
04-07-2010, 08:00 PM
So wait, just to clarify, these are stats from the last 2 season?
Yes, sir.

Taken from the ESPN source listed for each QB.

Boltheads
04-07-2010, 08:01 PM
Why do we insist on beating on a dead horse all the time? Orton is who he is. Our starting qb until he is replaced by our next qb. It doesn't matter if he can go deep or can't. If he can win games for you then the rest of that stuff is irrelevant such as deep balls and percentage. Winning matters and if Orton can win on a consistent basis then why argue about dumb things such as throwing the ball deep.

Main point is we need to let this topic go. Its been discussed thousands of times and if you don't like him then tough cause he's starting whether you like it or not. Have a good day and don't forget to :) for :orton: Cause he is your starting qb for the Denver Broncos...Fact.Well...he can't throw the deep ball and he didn't do better than Cutler did the year before....so, I don't see how it is irrelevant.

Bernie24
04-07-2010, 08:03 PM
Well...he can't throw the deep ball and he didn't do better than Cutler did the year before....so, I don't see how it is irrelevant.

Difference is nobody really claimed Cutler was good at a deep ball...

I wonder what this board would sound like if Orton was on any other team.

Hoserman117
04-07-2010, 08:04 PM
Yes, sir.

Taken from the ESPN source listed for each QB.

Okay....

So Peyton Manning, arguably the best Quarterback in the NFL, and perhaps one of the top pure passers in the history of the NFL, has only completed 13 of these throws in two years.

Doesn't that tell you something?

The top NFL passer, and one of the best ever, has completed just 13 of these in two seasons....

Maybe...

*gasp*

The deep ball doesn't really matter as much as you think it does?

JayJack
04-07-2010, 08:06 PM
To clarify: I'm not posting this for people like yourself who know this.

I'm posting it for those who insist he throws deep well. Or better than well...

Those who already don't think he does, well, I'm already with ya.

KO throws it just as well as any QB in the NFL. Name me one QB who deep throws are always accurate. I'm pretty sure that Manning, Brady, & Brees have all overthrown/underthrew, their recievers. I'm pretty sure that their recievers had to ajust to the ball, dive for it, catch it with one hand etc...Brady threw a deep pass to Gaffney that he had to slow down for. Manning had 2 ugly deep balls against NE last year. I think KO is in good company.:thumb:

JohnShaft
04-07-2010, 08:11 PM
So Peyton Manning, arguably the best Quarterback in the NFL
Maybe...
The deep ball doesn't really matter as much as you think it does?
Hose if you want to change to that horse (and debate that, which we can, and it's something I already partly agree with) then I'd at least like you to say you've moved on from the belief that Kyle has a good deep ball first.


KO throws it just as well as any QB in the NFL.
Not according to these distance-brokendown stats he doesn't. He's one of the worst in the NFL.

Boltheads
04-07-2010, 08:17 PM
KO throws it just as well as any QB in the NFL.Seriously....do some of you Bronco fans really watch games on Sunday?

MNBroncs85
04-07-2010, 08:17 PM
Did nobody else notice this guys cunning resemblence to Cutler? I bout spit my drink out when I saw the pic and then compared it to Johnwacks avatar

That is so jay cutler in about 20 years i didnt even really notice:D

Broncoyearound
04-07-2010, 08:19 PM
Well...he can't throw the deep ball and he didn't do better than Cutler did the year before....so, I don't see how it is irrelevant.

First year in a new system lets wait and see how he does this year. He might have finished 9-7 had he been able to finish the redskins game and who knows he might have beat you guys the second time had Simms not put up that god awful performance. Orton proved a lot on a team that wasn't even suppose to be in playoff contention. We were suppose to win 2-3 games whatever happened to that?

He brought the team to the same rate as Cutler did the three years before and this season he outperformed Cutler record wise in the games he played. So irrelevant is your knowledge on what I was talking about.

Everyone knocks him for not throwing deep or having an arm what is your point? If he wins games that's all that matters. We don't have a reciever who can burn defenders and stretch the field anyways and if it isn't your forte don't go out and change that play to your strenths. Orton had a very solid first year and he can only get better. Tell me man how many championships has Rivers brought you with a strong arm and accuracy and stuff? None zero so yes its irrelevant if people can throw long or not It doesn't win you games. Smart decisions win you game and good teamwork.

Its a team sport and Orton is not as gifted as Rivers I'm not saying that by any means but if he wins games dunkin and dinkin then why complain? That's all I'm saying people really need to get over this love affair of going deep all the darn time. Orton is who he is and in my book he's okay because he works hard and he's about the team. I believe he can win and I know several other broncos who probably would jump on a limb with me and say the same thing. I expect good things from Orton this season so lets bring this up midpoint through the season and talk then.

MNBroncs85
04-07-2010, 08:19 PM
Bottom line is KO cant throw the deep ball to save his life and he is not gonna get the broncos to where they need to get to period:yawn:

JayJack
04-07-2010, 08:20 PM
Seriously....do some of you Bronco fans really watch games on Sunday?

Sure i do!:D

KO8pectate
04-07-2010, 08:20 PM
The stats are valid.

And they only make Orton look suckage.

Go to ESPN and find them even slightly significantly miscalculated for any of those QB's.

Comparing him to tother QBs using the same source, they only make Orton look bad.

Of course you're not interested in really looking in to it like I have.

Ive already explained to you why the stats are not accurate and Ive already looked into them and explained this several times . None of the split passing numbers from this season are accurate because they dont include the last 3 games .

You also included last years because when you went through this years numbers alone you realized that

Brees - 5-9
Favre - 3-13
Rivers - 4-13
Rodgers - 4-10
Roeth' - 4-10
Peyton - 6-24
Schaub - 3-5
Romo - 2-13
Brady - 3-12
Warner - 3-5
Eli - 5-15
McNabb - 3-9
Flacco - 3-12
ORTON - 2-5
now let me repeat this was through the first 13 games which is what espn has in there splits for all the qbs .

So now we see why you used the 2 year stats because after making your comments you went and saw that Orton basically made a fool of you and so you needed both years to increase the numbers to try and salvage this failed argument .

now there are some who will refuse to believe it because they think every passes in the nfl goes 30+ yards and is caught because they learn everything they know about football from sports center top ten .

But sorry you are wrong and this entire argument about deep ball should be over ..................................waits on the next hater to restart this .

JohnShaft
04-07-2010, 08:24 PM
What are you even talking about?


Ive already explained to you why the stats are not accurate and Ive already looked into them and explained this several times . None of the split passing numbers from this season are accurate because they dont include the last 3 games .

Then they don't include them for any QB. Level-playing field still. Why does just Orton look to suck and no other QB? You talk about 13 games like it's 3.

Look at Orton's stats for just last year.

Or any earlier year.

Still abysmal. More abysmal. Post YOUR stats.

Boltheads
04-07-2010, 08:25 PM
Sure i do!:D.....and you think that Orton throws the deep ball as well as Manning, Rivers, Brees, Brady, etc...????

ChargersDivison
04-07-2010, 08:26 PM
KO throws it just as well as any QB in the NFL. Name me one QB who deep throws are always accurate. I'm pretty sure that Manning, Brady, & Brees have all overthrown/underthrew, their recievers. I'm pretty sure that their recievers had to ajust to the ball, dive for it, catch it with one hand etc...Brady threw a deep pass to Gaffney that he had to slow down for. Manning had 2 ugly deep balls against NE last year. I think KO is in good company.:thumb:

LMAO noodle arm Orton sucks badly. I can't imagine having him as my team's QB. How freakin embarrassing.

Orton sucks, big time.

Throws it deep as good as any?? HAHAHAHA stupid guy.

Hoserman117
04-07-2010, 08:28 PM
Hose if you want to change to that horse (and debate that, which we can, and it's something I already partly agree with) then I'd at least like you to say you've moved on from the belief that Kyle has a good deep ball first.


It isn't hose, it's HoserMan cause I used to live in Canada.

Hoser eh?

Anyways, and no, I just don't think the cut off for a deep ball is at 30+ yards. For 20+ yards, Orton completes a nice 42% of his throws, which is better than a lot of "elite QB's"

KO8pectate
04-07-2010, 08:31 PM
What are you even talking about?


Then they don't include them for any QB. Level-playing field still. Why does just Orton look to suck and no other QB? You talk about 13 games like it's 3.

Look at Orton's stats for just last year.

Or any earlier year.

Still abysmal. More abysmal. Post YOUR stats.

are you high ?

Those are the numbers for just the 13 games for all the Qbs you listed for just this year taken directly from the link you provided .

They are not abysmal you are in denial considering your entire theory about Orton has fell apart.

Its a HUGE difference between not being very good at something and simply not doing something enough.

Orton at week 15 had only attempted 5 passes in the 30-40 range while manning had attempted 24 however no one on your list had completed more than 6 so 4 more passes than Orton over 13 games ? ?????? Somehow thats abysmal ? Once you factor in the first 4 weeks with a fractured finger and your argument actually becomes kinda sad .

JohnShaft
04-07-2010, 08:34 PM
are you high ?

Those are the numbers for just the 13 games for all the Qbs you listed for just this year taken directly from the link you provided .

They are not abysmal you are in denial considering your entire theory about Orton has fell apart.

Its a HUGE difference between not being very good at something and simply not doing something enough.

Orton at week 15 had only attempted 5 passes in the 30-40 range while manning had attempted 24 however no one on your list had completed more than 6 so 4 more passes than Orton over 13 games ? ?????? Somehow thats abysmal ? Once you factor in the first 4 weeks with a fractured finger and your argument actually becomes kinda sad .
I'm stopping "debating" with you because you cannot make sense. And you certainly can't see it. See ya.

PS. I love your Kyle Username though. Not a lot of bias going on there I'm sure.

JayJack
04-07-2010, 08:35 PM
.....and you think that Orton throws the deep ball as well as Manning, Rivers, Brees, Brady, etc...????

I know i went a little to far. I like to push the envelope a little bit.:D Honestly, i don't like Manning or Brady's deep ball, especially Brady. I think that it's unfair to judge KO off of his 1st season in this offense, with a different set of recievers. People really discredit how important chemistry is between the QB & WR's, and also being comfortable in the system. Why is JohnShaft comparing KO to QB's who have been in the same system, with most of the same offensive weapons for years, is beyond my understanding.

JohnShaft
04-07-2010, 08:37 PM
Why is JohnShaft comparing KO to QB's who have been in the same system, with most of the same offensive weapons is beyond my understanding.
Jack, Kyle's stats at Chicago are even worse. Much worse. I was being kind to him.

2008, 1/11
2007, 2/10
2006, DNP
2005, 1/16

Chicago career 4/37 or 11%...

KO8pectate
04-07-2010, 08:38 PM
I'm stopping "debating" with you because you cannot make sense. And you certainly can't see it. See ya.

PS. I love your Kyle Username though. Not a lot of bias going on there I'm sure.

LOL youve been spotted and shown to be a fraud and a liar . I posted raw uncensored facts and you dont know what to do with them


:orton::D:logo::td:

Broncoyearound
04-07-2010, 08:42 PM
LMAO noodle arm Orton sucks badly. I can't imagine having him as my team's QB. How freakin embarrassing.

Orton sucks, big time.

Throws it deep as good as any?? HAHAHAHA stupid guy.

That same noodle arm qb beat your team in week 6 yeah what an embarrassment. Then a further embarrassment going into the playoffs rivers gets owned in his home...talk about embarrassing...Mark Sanchez and the Jets remember it well my friend cause thats embarrassing.

ChargersDivison
04-07-2010, 09:06 PM
That same noodle arm qb beat your team in week 6 yeah what an embarrassment. Then a further embarrassment going into the playoffs rivers gets owned in his home...talk about embarrassing...Mark Sanchez and the Jets remember it well my friend cause thats embarrassing.

You mean royal and his fluke kick returns won the game, not awful Orton, no way. Sorry!!


You mean Rivers losing to the #1 defense, with his kicker missing 3 kicks. Yeah Embarrassing!


Rivers at his absolutely worst is 5 times the QB Orton is, was or ever will be at his absolute best best best.

NDBroncosFan
04-07-2010, 09:10 PM
Difference is nobody really claimed Cutler was good at a deep ball...

I wonder what this board would sound like if Orton was on any other team.

If the Chargers would have done to their team, What the we did to ours...This board would be :laugh:their heads off!!! That is a Fact!!

-Rod-
04-07-2010, 09:12 PM
FACT: Kyle Orton can throw the ball so deep with so much arm strenght that it turns around the world and still finds his receiver 10 yards after the line of scrimmage

:orton: :smash:

Bigoosh
04-07-2010, 09:58 PM
You mean royal and his fluke kick returns won the game, not awful Orton, no way. Sorry!!


You mean Rivers losing to the #1 defense, with his kicker missing 3 kicks. Yeah Embarrassing!


Rivers at his absolutely worst is 5 times the QB Orton is, was or ever will be at his absolute best best best.

Umm, when I watched that game, I remember Orton doing a pretty good job. Sure Royal's returns were nice, but Orton still did a nice job.

If Rivers was as awesome as you say, then the number 1 defense shouldn't have given him any problems. Sad but true.

I have seen Rivers play some really bad games and if anything he was 5 times worse than Orton in those games. I mean don't get me wrong here, and I really hate to admit this, but I think Rivers is an underrated QB, but he isn't 5 times better than Orton.

ChargersDivison
04-07-2010, 10:13 PM
Umm, when I watched that game, I remember Orton doing a pretty good job. Sure Royal's returns were nice, but Orton still did a nice job.

If Rivers was as awesome as you say, then the number 1 defense shouldn't have given him any problems. Sad but true.

I have seen Rivers play some really bad games and if anything he was 5 times worse than Orton in those games. I mean don't get me wrong here, and I really hate to admit this, but I think Rivers is an underrated QB, but he isn't 5 times better than Orton.

I'd say throwing for 300 plus yds and technically 2 tds with what 68% comp vs the #1 defense with no running game didn't seem to be much problem. Outside of 1 fluke int, he had 1 bad pass.

If not for Kaeding Rivers would of beat them and been 2-1 vs #1 defenses in the playoffs. He can't do Kaeding's job for him.

Rivers at his worst the past 2 years is better than Orton at his best.

MH Stampede
04-07-2010, 10:30 PM
Its a travesty this post got moved to talkin' smack.

I've debated alastor on several occasions about different things, but I had never questioned his fairness as a mod.

Until now.

MH Stampede
04-07-2010, 10:35 PM
what message board have you been reading? i have never once heard anyone argue that orton is good at throwing deep, let alone better than brees and brady. those videos showing him throw to marshall, etc. are to prove that yes, orton is physically capable of throwing for longer than 20 yards. doesn't say anything about how good he is at the deep passing game, but it does prove that he has an nfl arm.

There have been a few posters, that have contended that Orton is one of THE premier deep ball QB's in the NFL.

Yeah, I find that concept funny too.

JohnShaft
04-07-2010, 10:36 PM
Its a travesty this post got moved to talkin' smack.
I really appreciate a Broncos fan saying what I was thinking.

Smack-posting is the least of what I was doing, and not what the post and data were about.

There's a lot of really good posters here. But way too many seem completely unable to discuss Kyle Orton rationally, or see any chinks in his armour.

He has his good points. But his deep ball is not one of them. I'm sure even he would tell you that.

MH Stampede
04-07-2010, 10:38 PM
Difference is nobody really claimed Cutler was good at a deep ball...

I wonder what this board would sound like if Orton was on any other team.

No one here would care.

MH Stampede
04-07-2010, 10:40 PM
.....and you think that Orton throws the deep ball as well as Manning, Rivers, Brees, Brady, etc...????

According to some, Orton is even better at it than they are.

Broncoyearound
04-07-2010, 10:40 PM
You mean royal and his fluke kick returns won the game, not awful Orton, no way. Sorry!!


You mean Rivers losing to the #1 defense, with his kicker missing 3 kicks. Yeah Embarrassing!


Rivers at his absolutely worst is 5 times the QB Orton is, was or ever will be at his absolute best best best.

you guys were still in the game until Orton hit Scheff in the corner of the endzone to put you guys away. Yeah embarrassing with that noodle arm it should have been picked off but it wasn't and you guys lost just like you did to the number one defense. Its no excuse you guys put rivers on a pedestool and claim him as some great qb but he can't get it done when it matters and thats in post season. Has to be bad just to show up right. If you want to just show up by all means get your team some tickets so they can enjoy the game like the rest of us and make way for someone who really wants to win a championship. Sorry to say it but you just got owned lol admit it. Not much but a little haha.

MH Stampede
04-07-2010, 10:42 PM
You mean royal and his fluke kick returns won the game, not awful Orton, no way. Sorry!!


You mean Rivers losing to the #1 defense, with his kicker missing 3 kicks. Yeah Embarrassing!


Rivers at his absolutely worst is 5 times the QB Orton is, was or ever will be at his absolute best best best.

Sad but very true.

Broncoyearound
04-07-2010, 10:48 PM
Sad but very true.

Yes he is true on the very last line of his statement. Again in no way shape or form would I ever say Orton is physically on Rivers level in no way. If I said that then the kool aid would really be in my genes. I'll just debate that Orton scored the last td to put the game away lets just leave it at that. If you want me to clarify something thats well known and it pains me to do it but I'm a realist most times and now its time for me to put that out.

Rivers4x>Orton There I said it.

MH Stampede
04-07-2010, 10:51 PM
I really appreciate a Broncos fan saying what I was thinking.

Smack-posting is the least of what I was doing, and not what the post and data were about.

There's a lot of really good posters here. But way too many seem completely unable to discuss Kyle Orton rationally, or see any chinks in his armour.

He has his good points. But his deep ball is not one of them. I'm sure even he would tell you that.

My personal take on Orton is that he is a smart, hard working team oriented player. He is tough, physically and mentally. Generally makes good decisions.

But he just isn't all that gifted a player. He lacks mobility. He has decent footwork, but he isn't overly athletic. He is as accurate as they come, out to 10 yards. Between 10 and 20 yards, he is reasonable. Beyond that, questionable. His arm IS strong enough for most throws, except the deep outs. To be fair,less than half the starting QB's in the NFL can't make that throw consistently. Orton, does not make it all...he isn't alone in that, but it is what it is.

I do not think Orton is a bad QB, nor is he a particularly good one. I do think, he is an average starting NFL QB. Does some things well, some things not so well.

The problem with that, is that to be a regular contending team, average play from your QB just isn't good enough. Orton would be, a top flight backup though. Exactly what you want in a QB coming off the bench when the starter goes down.

Bigoosh
04-07-2010, 11:04 PM
I'd say throwing for 300 plus yds and technically 2 tds with what 68% comp vs the #1 defense with no running game didn't seem to be much problem. Outside of 1 fluke int, he had 1 bad pass.

If not for Kaeding Rivers would of beat them and been 2-1 vs #1 defenses in the playoffs. He can't do Kaeding's job for him.

Rivers at his worst the past 2 years is better than Orton at his best.

Okay I get that you are a Rivers fan. I will even admit, as I did in my last post, that he is a great QB. However, Orton did a good job last season.

Here are the stats from last season

Orton:

21 TD's
12 Int's
3,802 yards
86.8 rating

Rivers

28 TD's
9 Int's
4,254 yards
104.4 rating

Ortons best game (based on full game played and QB rating)

2 TD's
0 Int's
243 yards
117.5 rating

Rivers worst game (based on full game played and QB rating)

1 TD
1 Int
252 yards
84.5 rating

The seasonal stats do show Rivers played better. However, it was not that significant in most categories, yes River threw 7 more touchdowns and 3 less picks. He also passed for 400 more yards. If Rivers was so much superior those numbers should be a lot more lopsided than they are.

I am not saying Orton is a better QB. I am saying that your statement that Rivers at his worse is better than Orton at his best is not true. You can go look at the individual game numbers for yourself. While Rivers does have more good games than Orton, Orton shows up well in quite few himself.

I am sure you will in some way refute these facts. By all means do so if you wish. I am sure you will say something along the lines of if Rivers was throwing to Brandon Marshall... Or if you had a running game.... Or if only we had played better than the jets....However, when it is all said and done the numbers show that Orton's best game is better than Rivers worst game.

Jer_ber73
04-07-2010, 11:08 PM
EVERY QB in the NFL can throw the ball. Even I can throw it 40 yds. Orton is just to careful and smart enough to know that the odds are not in his favor. I realize he doesnt have a rocket like Cutler, but the he can throw the ball 40 yds. I guarantee it. As far as cry baby Rivers, at least Orton takes his losses like a man. Did anybody else see Rivers face when he realized that the JETS(who backed into the playoffs)were smacking the ALL MIGHTY Chargers around. Priceless

12and4
04-07-2010, 11:15 PM
Attempts and Completions are in reverse order. Plus, it should be sorted by % completed or yards per completion.

But....back to your point.....Orton doesn't have a deep ball. That's why he is a good fit for McD's dink and dunk system.

I think its more that McD adjusted his system to accommodate for ortons noodle arm.

-Rod-
04-07-2010, 11:21 PM
Of course Orton struggles with the deep ball. He does not like to sling it down the field. But can he throw deep? Yes. His arm strenght is better than advertised, and Philip Rivers is living proof that other factors are involved. His accuracy is improving along with his mechanics, he will only get better in our system.

The problem is the stats presented make Orton look worse than he is. 4 completions of 30+ yards in 2 seasons? Does not sound accurate to me. And I can't discount the yards behind the line of scrimmage. For the purpose of official stats, obviously they will not count.

But for this discussion they are valid. If Orton completed a 26-yard pass after dropping back 5 yards, that means he had enough arm and accuracy to make the ball sail 30+ yards for a completion.

The deep ball is not his only problem. His mobility certainly is another weakness. His subtle movements in the pocket to avoid the rush are inconsistent. Sometimes he can take an extra step, go the right spot and buy time but not consistently.

Still, 4 completions with the ball sailing 30 or more yards, in 2 seasons, is unfair. He certainly did better than that. And it's not like all the incompletions were interceptions or balls out of range. There were drops, catches that were denied by pass interference.

Just don't make Orton look worse than he really is. I remember ESPN rated him as the worst starting quarterback before the 2009 season. I doubt they will make the same mistake in 2010.

Broncoyearound
04-07-2010, 11:40 PM
Of course Orton struggles with the deep ball. He does not like to sling it down the field. But can he throw deep? Yes. His arm strenght is better than advertised, and Philip Rivers is living proof that other factors are involved. His accuracy is improving along with his mechanics, he will only get better in our system.

The problem is the stats presented make Orton look worse than he is. 4 completions of 30+ yards in 2 seasons? Does not sound accurate to me. And I can't discount the yards behind the line of scrimmage. For the purpose of official stats, obviously they will not count.

But for this discussion they are valid. If Orton completed a 26-yard pass after dropping back 5 yards, that means he had enough arm and accuracy to make the ball sail 30+ yards for a completion.

The deep ball is not his only problem. His mobility certainly is another weakness. His subtle movements in the pocket to avoid the rush are inconsistent. Sometimes he can take an extra step, go the right spot and buy time but not consistently.

Still, 4 completions with the ball sailing 30 or more yards, in 2 seasons, is unfair. He certainly did better than that. And it's not like all the incompletions were interceptions or balls out of range. There were drops, catches that were denied by pass interference.

Just don't make Orton look worse than he really is. I remember ESPN rated him as the worst starting quarterback before the 2009 season. I doubt they will make the same mistake in 2010.

Wow that deserved a bold print. Even worse than Russel?

-Rod-
04-07-2010, 11:57 PM
Wow that deserved a bold print. Even worse than Russel?

Yes. ESPN said Denver had the worst quarterbacks in the entire league.

Bigoosh
04-08-2010, 12:05 AM
Yes. ESPN said Denver had the worst quarterbacks in the entire league.

Yet one more reason why I hardly ever watch ESPN anymore. NFL network all the way baby!:logo:

12and4
04-08-2010, 01:36 AM
Yet one more reason why I hardly ever watch ESPN anymore. NFL network all the way baby!:logo:

Yeah because nfln loves denver

Broncoyearound
04-08-2010, 01:46 AM
Yeah because nfln loves denver

Of course because we are Duke's favorite team. He loves everything we do.

Hoserman117
04-08-2010, 07:42 AM
Yet one more reason why I hardly ever watch ESPN anymore. NFL network all the way baby!:logo:

http://www.jamiedukes.com/multimedia/images/JamieDukes-5_After.jpg

:sick: :sick:

jdubv724
04-08-2010, 08:13 AM
You're not counting from the line of scrimmage.

Point remains utterly unless ESPN have set Orton up to look way worse than everyone else?...
:orton:

It's not like anyone else is completing 60 percent of their deep balls. Most QB's are only completing a quarter of passes that are for 30 yards or more.

Beagle
04-08-2010, 09:57 AM
http://www.profootballfocus.com/by_player.php?tab=by_player&season=2009&surn=O&playerid=2323&group=2

I aint saying Orton has a great deep ball but its not as horrible as the op has shown. I could have saved him alot of time getting all those stats wrong just by pointing him to the link above.

How serious can anyone talking about a QB be taken when he is obviously a Cutler fan.

Broncosojia
04-08-2010, 10:05 AM
http://www.profootballfocus.com/by_player.php?tab=by_player&season=2009&surn=O&playerid=2323&group=2

I aint saying Orton has a great deep ball but its not as horrible as the op has shown. I could have saved him alot of time getting all those stats wrong just by pointing him to the link above.

How serious can anyone talking about a QB be taken when he is obviously a Cutler fan.

The problem with those stats is that they include passes thrown 20+ yards down the field.


The OP stats are for passes thown 30+.



His stats are not made up.

joeknox
04-08-2010, 10:41 AM
LOL youve been spotted and shown to be a fraud and a liar . I posted raw uncensored facts and you dont know what to do with them


:orton::D:logo::td:

no sir..your refusing to see the obvious

he is showing attempts of passes where the ball travels from the LOS to 30 or more yards in the air

you are trying to counter with nfl.com stats that show completions but include YAC

so savey yet?...your stats may include a 8 yard pass completion where a wr took it another 22 yards

case in point..marshall had 1120 recieving yards ...of which 45.5% came after the catch...510 yards after the catch from marshall

subtracting marshalls YAC..his average completion was about 6 yards

ChargerCarl
04-08-2010, 11:29 AM
Okay I get that you are a Rivers fan. I will even admit, as I did in my last post, that he is a great QB. However, Orton did a good job last season.

Here are the stats from last season

Orton:

21 TD's
12 Int's
3,802 yards
86.8 rating

Rivers

28 TD's
9 Int's
4,254 yards
104.4 rating

Ortons best game (based on full game played and QB rating)

2 TD's
0 Int's
243 yards
117.5 rating

Rivers worst game (based on full game played and QB rating)

1 TD
1 Int
252 yards
84.5 rating

The seasonal stats do show Rivers played better. However, it was not that significant in most categories, yes River threw 7 more touchdowns and 3 less picks. He also passed for 400 more yards. If Rivers was so much superior those numbers should be a lot more lopsided than they are.

I am not saying Orton is a better QB. I am saying that your statement that Rivers at his worse is better than Orton at his best is not true. You can go look at the individual game numbers for yourself. While Rivers does have more good games than Orton, Orton shows up well in quite few himself.

I am sure you will in some way refute these facts. By all means do so if you wish. I am sure you will say something along the lines of if Rivers was throwing to Brandon Marshall... Or if you had a running game.... Or if only we had played better than the jets....However, when it is all said and done the numbers show that Orton's best game is better than Rivers worst game.

You forgot the fact that Orton had almost 100 more attempts than Rivers. What really makes some QB's superior to others is their efficiency; what they accomplish per throw. Unsurprisingly, Rivers has led the league in that category for the past two seasons. Orton has been in the middle of the pack.


EVERY QB in the NFL can throw the ball. Even I can throw it 40 yds. Orton is just to careful and smart enough to know that the odds are not in his favor.

Of course he can throw it that far, thats not he question. What is in question is his ability to locate intermediate and deep routes.

KO8pectate
04-08-2010, 02:01 PM
no sir..your refusing to see the obvious

he is showing attempts of passes where the ball travels from the LOS to 30 or more yards in the air

you are trying to counter with nfl.com stats that show completions but include YAC

so savey yet?...your stats may include a 8 yard pass completion where a wr took it another 22 yards

case in point..marshall had 1120 recieving yards ...of which 45.5% came after the catch...510 yards after the catch from marshall

subtracting marshalls YAC..his average completion was about 6 yards

No sir you are clueless just like he is . How many times does this have to be explained .

I took the stats from Espn following the link he posted .

he ignored the obvious because he doesnt like Orton .

Im not talking about YAC and its beyond stupid that after saying this several times people still follow the fool .

On passes thrown at least 30 yards which is what he quoted in the first post. If you look at 2009 stats(splits) they only go to week 13.

If you look at each of the situational splits and add up the tds it only comes to 16 tds . Orton had 21 tds last year . If you go to favres he has 27 but for the season he had 33 .

So the numbers he listed only includes the first 13 games of this year so they cant possibly be right which is what several people who have actually watched the games have said .

Orton hit Scheffler for 30+ yards against Oak

Orton hit Lloyd for 40+ yards against the Chiefs

Those numbers are incomplete period so they cant be correct and they have nothing to do with YAC.

the list I posted a page or so back is the correct numbers for this year through the 13 games which is all ESPN has listed .

Those are the numbers to look at if you are interested in the truth. The manipulation of the facts being done in this thread is mind boggling.

No one was really even talking about how Orton was better than this QB or that QB.

The OP started this thread with this and this is where the entire debate comes from .


People are still trotting out the belief Orton can throw deep


In the list I posted a few pages back the most completed throws of the Qbs that the OP listed was 6 through 13 weeks (thats all the espn numbers go up to for this year) . Orton we know based on the link the OP provided had 2 at the time .

So there is not some huge disparity for last season betwen completed passes in the 30-40 range from Orton as the OP claimed there is just a huge difference in the number of attempts but as someone said there are not a ton of deep ball being completed .

Thats why the OP had to go back two years because just using the stats from this year blows his claims away.

What the stats show is that the deep ball is very up and down on a year to year basis . Some years they just get into a rhythm and are nailing everything and other years the timing is just not there . Brees completed fewer deep balls this year than he did in 2008 and yet everyone will say he had a much better year throwing the ball this season. In 2008 they didnt make the playoffs with all the deep completions but made the SB with him completing far fewer .

Fire_Josh
04-08-2010, 02:26 PM
No sir you are clueless just like he is . How many times does this have to be explained .

I took the stats from Espn following the link he posted .

he ignored the obvious because he doesnt like Orton .

Im not talking about YAC and its beyond stupid that after saying this several times people still follow the fool .

On passes thrown at least 30 yards which is what he quoted in the first post. If you look at 2009 stats(splits) they only go to week 13.

If you look at each of the situational splits and add up the tds it only comes to 16 tds . Orton had 21 tds last year . If you go to favres he has 27 but for the season he had 33 .

So the numbers he listed only includes the first 13 games of this year so they cant possibly be right which is what several people who have actually watched the games have said .

Orton hit Scheffler for 30+ yards against Oak

Orton hit Lloyd for 40+ yards against the Chiefs

Those numbers are incomplete period so they cant be correct and they have nothing to do with YAC.

the list I posted a page or so back is the correct numbers for this year through the 13 games which is all ESPN has listed .

Those are the numbers to look at if you are interested in the truth. The manipulation of the facts being done in this thread is mind boggling.

No one was really even talking about how Orton was better than this QB or that QB.

The OP started this thread with this and this is where the entire debate comes from .




In the list I posted a few pages back the most completed throws of the Qbs that the OP listed was 6 through 13 weeks (thats all the espn numbers go up to for this year) . Orton we know based on the link the OP provided had 2 at the time .

So there is not some huge disparity for last season betwen completed passes in the 30-40 range from Orton as the OP claimed there is just a huge difference in the number of attempts but as someone said there are not a ton of deep ball being completed .

Thats why the OP had to go back two years because just using the stats from this year blows his claims away.

What the stats show is that the deep ball is very up and down on a year to year basis . Some years they just get into a rhythm and are nailing everything and other years the timing is just not there . Brees completed fewer deep balls this year than he did in 2008 and yet everyone will say he had a much better year throwing the ball this season. In 2008 they didnt make the playoffs with all the deep completions but made the SB with him completing far fewer .

Thats all well, and good... but even in a off year, they have to respect Drew's ability to GO DEEP, and make a team pay for blitzing... with Kyle they know that is his last option, and even man on man covrage will force him to do the "smart" thing, and either fall down like the girl he is, or throw it to the ball boy on the sidelines...

Kyle is game manager, for what that is worth....don't try and make him into something he is not...

TheBroncoEra
04-08-2010, 04:41 PM
Thats all well, and good... but even in a off year, they have to respect Drew's ability to GO DEEP, and make a team pay for blitzing... with Kyle they know that is his last option, and even man on man covrage will force him to do the "smart" thing, and either fall down like the girl he is, or throw it to the ball boy on the sidelines...

Kyle is game manager, for what that is worth....don't try and make him into something he is not...

"either fall down like the girl he is..."

I know this is the smack section but that's just weak dude, and unfair. Orton played through an injury that would sideline a lot of QBs for a while, and he gets treated like crap. I'm not saying Orton is the perfect QB but at least show a little respect for him.

KO8pectate
04-08-2010, 05:23 PM
Thats all well, and good... but even in a off year, they have to respect Drew's ability to GO DEEP, and make a team pay for blitzing... with Kyle they know that is his last option, and even man on man covrage will force him to do the "smart" thing, and either fall down like the girl he is, or throw it to the ball boy on the sidelines...

Kyle is game manager, for what that is worth....don't try and make him into something he is not...

Again typical hater gibberish .

We arent talking about your alleged ability to read the defensive coordinators of every team in the league minds . We are talking about deep passes tangible verifiable stats not message board psychic ability Nostradamus

*Atwater*
04-08-2010, 08:55 PM
Oh Look a Orton bashing thread how original.

:rolleyes:

Bigoosh
04-08-2010, 09:00 PM
You forgot the fact that Orton had almost 100 more attempts than Rivers. What really makes some QB's superior to others is their efficiency; what they accomplish per throw. Unsurprisingly, Rivers has led the league in that category for the past two seasons. Orton has been in the middle of the pack.

I totally agree with you. I was never saying Orton was a better QB, the entire point I am trying to make is that while Rivers is the better QB, Orton did an okay job and that an erroneous statement like "Rivers is five times the QB" is a fallacy. If I had to choose between Rivers and Orton, I would pick Rivers. However, if I had to choose between Orton and a QB such as Russell or some of the other truly bad QB's in the league (and there are a few) I would be happy to have Orton.

Orton did a GOOD job for us last year. Was he amazing? No, but A: it was his first year in our system. B: His line had some problems protecting him, and C: He wasn't expected to be the next coming of Elway, he was simply expected to manage the game and not make too many mistakes which is exactly what he did.

Now that I have gone waaaaay off topic, I will be quiet.

Mcharger70
04-11-2010, 05:31 PM
To be fair they said Jmarcus russel could throw the ball 75 yards on his knees coming out of college...............yeah thats my point

long passing isnt Ortons strong point so it isnt used often and isnt gonna show in the stats .....i'm sure he can sling the ball as good as most QB's

he's still a better QB than cuddles