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keithbishop
07-09-2010, 09:34 AM
Stay tuned. Word is that the deal will be for C Jesus Montero (Yankees top prospect), 2B David Adams (top 15 prospect), and perhaps another minor leaguer.

BroncoFanBoy
07-09-2010, 09:49 AM
Yankees getting ANOTHER one?


http://forums.denverbroncos.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3669&d=1278694112

Bronco51
07-09-2010, 10:21 AM
I think the Yankees see the Red Sox and Rays staying competitive for the long haul and decided to add some insurance and also keep some other AL contenders from getting him. Good move on their part.

the0rangecrush
07-09-2010, 10:26 AM
It must feel good to have an infinite amount of money to get any player you want. This is like a fantasy baseball, but the yankees can pick whenever they want, it's ludacris at some point someone needs to step in and say well we have the Yankees who have everyone, and the poor pirates who can't afford to keep their best players it's a bit sad. However, I hope this is a method that seattle is using to drive up the price on him. Last I heard the twins have the number 1 catching prospect which is funny as he has no chance of becoming the starter with Joe Mauer there.

thatkidhunt
07-09-2010, 12:47 PM
Man if the Yanks get Lee, might as well lock it up.

SeekandDestroy
07-09-2010, 12:54 PM
I hate this evil empire known as the new york yankees so much, baseball needs a salary cap...but i guess it does make it that much sweeter when they spend all their money and fail.

And apparently you’re not allowed to bring I-Pad's into Yankee Stadium anymore. Which means if you want to look at an expensive, overrated slab at a Yankees game, you’ll just have to watch A-Rod. :D

BroncoFanBoy
07-09-2010, 01:15 PM
Cliff Lee will not be joining the Yankees (at least he wont now)
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/yankees/yankees_get_cliff_lee_in_trade_with_jBr2qMDmubCgVs SlLAOdpL


The Yankees and Mariners were on the goal line for a deal that would have sent Cliff Lee to the defending champions, but in mid-afternoon Seattle officials told their Yankees counterparts that they were no longer willing to do a deal that the sides had agreed upon the previous day, The Post has learned.

The Yankees would have sent top prospect Jesus Montero, plus second baseman David Adams and pitcher Zach McAllister to Seattle for one of the best pitchers in the sport.

But Adams has been out with a high ankle sprain and the Mariners were a bit concerned about obtaining him. They asked the Yankees to consider putting another player in the deal. The Yankees said they would, but Seattle came back and asked for more still and, at that point, the Yankees said no and the Mariners informed them they were looking elsewhere.

It is possible that another team that had been involved in the talks such as the Twins or Rangers sweetened their offer. It also is possible that the Mariners were feeling some pressure of making the rich richer by dealing Lee to the Yanks.

Either way, unless this is brinksmanship or the sides can reconnect, the Yanks’ attempt to create a powerhouse rotation fronted by CC Sabathia and Lee is off.

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/yankees/yankees_get_cliff_lee_in_trade_with_jBr2qMDmubCgVs SlLAOdpL#ixzz0tDa95OTV


i saw on a recent update that there is "one team" that made a huge offer for lee after the yankees. IMO it's the rays. they're one of the teams that are interested and don't want him in the division. (it could also be boston)

keithbishop
07-09-2010, 01:26 PM
Rays had supposedly offered Upton for Lee. Rangers are trying hard to get a deal done.

I was surprised to see David Adams name in the proposal to begin with. He's been on the disabled list for AA Trenton since May 24th-- an ankle injury that isn't improving.

I'm VERY relieved the Yankees didn't trade Jesus Montero. Only 20 and already in AAA, his offensive ceiling is Mike Piazza-level. He isn't strong defensively, but he's better with the glove than Piazza (but aren't we all?).

I'm a Yankees fan who would welcome a salary cap. Here's a novel idea: why doesn't commissioner Blameless Bud Selig do something other than run the all star game and look the other way on rampant steroid use in the sport? Change the rules, then cry to me if the Yankees break them. World wide draft? Salary cap? I'm not opposed in the least. I want a REAL commissioner.

Fail? I've watched them win it 7 times, SeekandDestroy. No one gives a $*** about my finances (and the notion of "fair" in life isn't something I've seen -- it's a myth), and I don't care about any supposed financial injustice (that's within the rules of the sport) with the monopoly money billionaire owners spend on multi millionaire players. Maybe you can fathom the money amounts, but I can't. Cry me a river. Give me a commish who will do his job.

Same system is in place in the NBA and MLB. Can't say I like the system...... nor do I approve of all the loopholes in the NFL's system (Deadskins are good at that), but, until the rules are changed, I fail to see what crying will do.

BroncoFanBoy
07-09-2010, 01:31 PM
Rays had supposedly offered Upton for Lee. Rangers are trying hard to get a deal done.

I was surprised to see David Adams name in the proposal to begin with. He's been on the disabled list for AA Trenton since May 24th-- an ankle injury that isn't improving.

I'm VERY relieved the Yankees didn't trade Jesus Montero. Only 20 and already in AAA, his offensive ceiling is Mike Piazza-level. He isn't strong defensively, but he's better with the glove than Piazza (but aren't we all?).

I'm a Yankees fan who would welcome a salary cap. Here's a novel idea: why doesn't commissioner Blameless Bud Selig do something other than run the all star game and look the other way on rampant steroid use in the sport? Change the rules, then cry to me if the Yankees break them. World wide draft? Salary cap? I'm not opposed in the least. I want a REAL commissioner.

i think the yankees would be idiots to trade montero. he's the 6th best prospect in baseball and jorge posada is getting old so they'll need a catcher. adams is the reason the mariners are backing out because they're concerned about his knee. as for the rangers and this, why would seattle trade him to a divison rival? you may be telling me that "donovan mcnabb was" ya because andy reid is an idiot at trades. the mariners aren't idiots.

keithbishop
07-09-2010, 01:37 PM
Cliff Lee will not be joining the Yankees (at least he wont now)
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/yankees/yankees_get_cliff_lee_in_trade_with_jBr2qMDmubCgVs SlLAOdpL



i saw on a recent update that there is "one team" that made a huge offer for lee after the yankees. IMO it's the rays. they're one of the teams that are interested and don't want him in the division. (it could also be boston)



I don't think Boston has the upper level hitting prospects the Mariners want. The Rays, Rangers, and Twins do, though. Jesus Montero is a top 5 prospect (all of baseball -- #1 Yankees prospect) and the deal would have taken him plus 2 more prospects. Rays could certainly get a deal done starting with Upton.

keithbishop
07-09-2010, 01:42 PM
i think the yankees would be idiots to trade montero. he's the 6th best prospect in baseball and jorge posada is getting old so they'll need a catcher. adams is the reason the mariners are backing out because they're concerned about his knee. as for the rangers and this, why would seattle trade him to a divison rival? you may be telling me that "donovan mcnabb was" ya because andy reid is an idiot at trades. the mariners aren't idiots.

I don't think the Mariners would worry about trading him to the Rangers. The Rangers are going through bankruptcy. No way they could sign Lee to an extension. The Rangers have a great set of prospects to offer. All things being equal, yeah, you trade him out of the division. In this case, however, the Mariners are done this year and having Lee in Texas for 4 months or less is no big deal.

I don't want to see Montero traded (he and Phil Hughes are the best prospects the Yankees have had in years -- Cano wasn't highly rated....prospect "experts" blew the call on that one), but the reason the Yankees would consider it is that their #2 prospect, Austin Romine, is a catcher in AA. 4 of the Yankees top 8 prospects are catchers.

keithbishop
07-09-2010, 01:49 PM
Wild day. Yankees beat writer Mark Feinsand says the Yankees are still in it.

I'll be heartbroken if Montero is dealt.

Replacing David Adams in the deal won't be hard. Adams is a 23 year old AA
2B. He's a top 15 Yankees prospect, as is AAA SS Eduardo Nunez. Nunez is also 23. He's not on the disabled list with a badly sprained ankle, a definite advantage over Adams. Hell, 2B Corban Joseph (High A Tampa) is a top 10 Yankees prospect. He turns 22 in October.

Seattle will get a huge take no matter where Lee ends up.


MLB runs the Rangers..... and the owners of all the other teams are providing $$ to keep the Rangers afloat. Look for outrage aplenty from the owners if he goes to Texas. Interesting.....

BroncoSexyDaddy
07-09-2010, 02:01 PM
I hope if happens.CC and Cliff Lee wow!!!!!! :D

keithbishop
07-09-2010, 02:04 PM
Current word is Lee will be traded to Texas for Justin Smoak and 3 other prospects. Seattle may pay the rest of Lee's salary this season.

keithbishop
07-09-2010, 02:05 PM
Joel Sherman says it's a done deal: Lee to Rangers for 1B Smoak and 3 prospects.

ERoyal248
07-09-2010, 02:58 PM
Ken_Rosenthal
#Yankees livid with #Mariners. Believed they had deal, then M's took it to #Rangers saying put Smoak in and Lee is yours... #MLB

CTM
07-09-2010, 03:14 PM
Wow, Texas looks pretty legit right now. They were legit before but with Lee they are probably the top contender in the AL to challenge the Yanks.

SeekandDestroy
07-09-2010, 03:38 PM
Best part about this is that the Yankees are pissed. Way to stick it to the man Seattle!

keithbishop
07-09-2010, 05:49 PM
This Yankees fan isn't, SeekandDestroy. I've been following Montero since he was signed as a 16 year old. Most of the Yankees fanbase, and a HUGE % of those, like myself, who follow Yankees prospects, aren't.

Trading prospects for established vets happens all the time, and Lee would have been a nice addition, but it's scary with a prospect with a ceiling as high as Montero's. There are 5 Yankees prospects I'm dead set against trading: Montero, Austin Romine, Gary Sanchez, Dellin Betances, and Manny Banuelos. There are several others: Hector Noesi, Adam Warren, and Graham Stoneburner, for example, that I don't like the idea of trading. Following prospects is heartbreaking due to trades, injuries, and those who never approach reaching their ceilings, but the payoff is immense when they make it big.

I'm awfully glad the Rangers turned down a prospect named Robinson Cano in the A-Rod trade.

If this means the Yankees will no longer talk trades with Seattle, fine by me. Word has it the Twins aren't thrilled with the Mariners GM, either.

Nothing to be upset about for Yankees fans. Sorry. Defending world champs and the best record in baseball. All is well.

DevilSpawn
07-09-2010, 06:41 PM
I wanted him here, but KB's right, keeping Montero is one hell of a consolation. I'm not into the minors as much, but I know this kid and he can be damn good.

The Rays had a prospect player that teams were drooling over, with the teams offering standout all-stars, but the Rays held on to him. That player was Evan Longoria.

I remember the Mets trading the Scott Kasmir for Victor Zambrano. That move caused the Mets GM at the time to be demoted.

I think we're fine with out 5.
CC
Pettitte
AJ
Hughes
Javi

The battle for the 4th spot in the playoffs if we make there will be between AJ and Javi Vasquez.

BroncoFanBoy
07-09-2010, 10:53 PM
i would HATE to be cliff lee right now

Bernie24
07-09-2010, 11:00 PM
Another reason why I hate baseball: buying championships like the Yankees do.

I know they didn't get Cliff Lee but still, can't stand it.

BroncoFanBoy
07-09-2010, 11:05 PM
Another reason why I hate baseball: buying championships like the Yankees do.

I know they didn't get Cliff Lee but still, can't stand it.

the new york yankees are the exact OPPOSITE of this guy:
http://www.kellyskindergarten.com/Games/GamestoMake/images/krabs.gif

keithbishop
07-10-2010, 07:42 AM
Cry, baby, cry. I've only been listening to the "too much $$" whining since the mid 70's. That crap goes back to the 1920's. B$tch, moan, whine..... and I really love it when those who don't even follow the sport gripe about it. Hilarious.

In honor of those who cry, I'll watch all 162 games plus the post season this year.

Hey, I don't give a rat's a$$ about the NBA, so why don't I whine about Lebron or any number of other NBA subjects? I guess I don't because I have better things to do. Crazy, isn't it?

Anyways, keep up the whining, Yankees haters. I love every moment of it. :salute:

the0rangecrush
07-10-2010, 08:52 AM
First of all, let me start this off I am not a big baseball fan, nor will I pretend to be. However, I don't just disagree with the payroll for the Yankees, but teams such as Boston as well. This year A-Rod is scheduled to make $33 million, and the entire pirates team is scheduled to make $34,933,000. Now when one player is making as much as an entire team, there is something wrong. How can smaller franchises hope to compete? These bottom feeder teams have really no option now, But to become places where an occasional star is brought in, then leaves via FA or trade to one of the bigger markets. This isn't a knock on a single team, but the MLB.

Bernie24
07-10-2010, 09:00 AM
Cry, baby, cry. I've only been listening to the "too much $$" whining since the mid 70's. That crap goes back to the 1920's. B$tch, moan, whine..... and I really love it when those who don't even follow the sport gripe about it. Hilarious.

In honor of those who cry, I'll watch all 162 games plus the post season this year.

Hey, I don't give a rat's a$$ about the NBA, so why don't I whine about Lebron or any number of other NBA subjects? I guess I don't because I have better things to do. Crazy, isn't it?

Anyways, keep up the whining, Yankees haters. I love every moment of it. :salute:

Just saying this is why Baseball doesn't have the appeal of the NBA or the NFL. Its not competitive for the most part. The Yankees win every year.

The Yankees add the #1 FA every year. I honestly don't get how people can enjoy a sport that is so blatantly unfair because of a lack of salary cap.

keithbishop
07-10-2010, 09:28 AM
Just saying this is why Baseball doesn't have the appeal of the NBA or the NFL. Its not competitive for the most part. The Yankees win every year.

The Yankees add the #1 FA every year. I honestly don't get how people can enjoy a sport that is so blatantly unfair because of a lack of salary cap.

Strange.... the NBA has the same system as MLB: Luxury tax, not a salary cap. That isn't news to an NBA fan, right?

Stranger yet, the Yankees FA additions last winter:
Reserve OF Randy Winn -- 1 year $ 1.1 mil. plus $900 K incentives.

Reserve OF/DH Marcus Thames-- 1 year $900 K

That's it. I take it you're so in the habit of griping about the Yankees that you have no idea what free agents sign where in MLB. I can't pretend to follow NBA free agency.... I just don't gripe about it. I can't stand the NBA. Damned shame because I used to enjoy it. Whether I like a sport or not won't make you lose any sleep, now will it? You owe me no explanation why you like the NBA. Maybe you like 16 teams making the playoffs. I think it's a joke.

Winn was released by the Yankees and picked up by the Cardinals. He obviously won't earn any of his incentives.

Thames rarely plays.... generally starts vs. LHP.... and he's in danger of losing his roster spot.

Which of them was the #1 free agent? Do you have any idea who Thames or Winn are? Neither has been a "top free agent" at any point in their careers. Both are very likely in their final season in the majors.

Like I said, I love the whining..... especially the misinformed variety.

keithbishop
07-10-2010, 09:36 AM
Just saying this is why Baseball doesn't have the appeal of the NBA or the NFL. Its not competitive for the most part. The Yankees win every year.

The Yankees add the #1 FA every year. I honestly don't get how people can enjoy a sport that is so blatantly unfair because of a lack of salary cap.

I don't get the "win it every year" thing, either.

Didn't win it in 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, or 2008.... hell, I watched them go from 1982 through 1994 without making the playoffs. I've followed them religiously since I was a little boy, so what do you mean by "The Yankees win every year"?

Maharishineo
07-10-2010, 12:45 PM
I don't get the "win it every year" thing, either.

Didn't win it in 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, or 2008.... hell, I watched them go from 1982 through 1994 without making the playoffs. I've followed them religiously since I was a little boy, so what do you mean by "The Yankees win every year"?

Try being a fan of say, the Rangers, who haven't made it to the playoffs since 1999. A team who's never made it to the World Series, and therefore sure haven't won it even once as opposed to what? 27 times? That's one-in-four, and while it's not exactly every year, that's a pretty ludicrous number when you think of it that way.

I mean, as a Broncos fan I'm sure you can understand what it means when somebody says it's a lot easier to be a Yankees fan.
To me, that's what's being implied when somebody says they win it every year, or they somehow criticize Yankees fans.

And don't get me wrong, you sound like one of the more loyal Yankees fans I've seen (because I'm sure as one, you see a lot of peeps on your bandwagon), but understand that doesn't take away from the fact that the Yankees do have a significant leg-up on what's far from level competition in their sport, and since they do have that they are going to be criticized, as are you for being a fan of the most convenient team in sports to root for.

Maharishineo
07-10-2010, 12:49 PM
In addition to my other post...

By the way, NBA versus MLB. The NBA does have a cap. Then there's the luxury tax, which also has a cap. There's a significant difference. Not sure why you're really arguing the facts. I know you love your Yankees, but the only thing you really can be to be honest with yourself is say it's not a level-playing field, and understand and live with the consequences. At least in the end you're still going to be able to watch your team win. *shrugs*

DevilSpawn
07-10-2010, 12:52 PM
Try being a fan of say, the Rangers, who haven't made it to the playoffs since 1999. A team who's never made it to the World Series, and therefore sure haven't won it even once as opposed to what? 27 times? That's one-in-four, and while it's not exactly every year, that's a pretty ludicrous number when you think of it that way.
The Rangers are a bad and perfect example. In the days of Alex Gonzalez, they had a playoff contender. Then they had $262 million to put on one player instead of a couple of superstars and role players. It ruined them for years to come and they're still paying for it off of a dumb decision.

Teams like the Rays show you it can happen without top dollar.

From 01-08, nobody was talking after the Yanks lost a series or didn't make the playoffs. Only when they win.

MLB is at fault, not the Yankees. They haven't broken one single rule.

Maharishineo
07-10-2010, 02:18 PM
MLB is at fault, not the Yankees. They haven't broken one single rule.

I agree with that. MLB's system is what promotes the Yankee's unfair advantage. But they still have one. I don't blame them for exploiting the system, that's what you're supposed to do. But I think despite that all my points still hold true. As long as they have that advantage, they'll win, and people will be upset and criticize, and that's what it is.

Personally I don't hate the Yankees. I'm just saying that's how I see it. I mean, it's MLB's fault. But they leave it that way because people are silly enough to blame the Yankees, thus Yankee love, Yankee hate. That's what works for baseball, and that's why MLB will keep in that way. (Which does seem lame to me.)

keithbishop
07-10-2010, 06:59 PM
Try being a fan of say, the Rangers, who haven't made it to the playoffs since 1999. A team who's never made it to the World Series, and therefore sure haven't won it even once as opposed to what? 27 times? That's one-in-four, and while it's not exactly every year, that's a pretty ludicrous number when you think of it that way.

I mean, as a Broncos fan I'm sure you can understand what it means when somebody says it's a lot easier to be a Yankees fan.
To me, that's what's being implied when somebody says they win it every year, or they somehow criticize Yankees fans.

And don't get me wrong, you sound like one of the more loyal Yankees fans I've seen (because I'm sure as one, you see a lot of peeps on your bandwagon), but understand that doesn't take away from the fact that the Yankees do have a significant leg-up on what's far from level competition in their sport, and since they do have that they are going to be criticized, as are you for being a fan of the most convenient team in sports to root for.

That's the part that you seem to get that most don't. The ones who come across with the "I don't see how you root for..." types.... as if I had a choice. One simply doesn't change colors after 30+ seasons. Deeper than that, my obsession goes to the level of being livid when one of their minor leaguers has a bad day (try tracking 800 games per season --literally... I love it. LOL).

I have a real problem with the "fair" issue, too. From as young as I can remember, I was told life wasn't fair. Were I a Cavaliers fan, I'd wonder what part of "fair" involves zero compensation for losing James. Were I a Nets fan, I'd wonder where "fair" failed to land my team the top pick in the draft. As it stands, I'm a lifelong 76ers fan (not an easy task, as you could imagine) who feels damned lucky to have been able to see Dr. J and co. win a title. I like the fact that my first favorite NBA player, Doug Collins, is now their coach. The game itself, though........ just isn't the same to me anymore. I love college basketball, though.

Back to the Yankees.... it gets so old hearing the same exact things I heard when Reggie Jackson joined the team as a free agent. I know that the same things were said in the 50's, the 30's, the 20's. How about the criticism that the Kansas City A's were essentially a "Yankees farm team"..... nothing about "level playing field" fits with that accusation.

It goes too far, though, when a poor boy like me is somehow supposed to justify the doings of billionaires. When the fact that a legion of fans just like myself.... the ones who understand the "Core Four" of Jeter, Posada, Pettitte, and Rivera (plus retired Bernie Williams) are what won our titles. I can break the roster (be it the 25 man or the 40 man) down in a blink of an eye, yet I hear over and over and over and over again that it's all about free agents.... a mercenary team. What a load of crap. Look at the Yankees starting lineup: one free agent (Teixeira)/ 4 home grown players/ 3 from trades/ revolving DH. Top 3 relievers are home grown. 2 home grown starting pitchers/2 free agents/1 from trade.

Following these guys from the Gulf Coast League Yankees (rookie league-- assuming the guy signs to begin with....hell, I sweat out the deadline for draft picks to sign!) .... up through Charleston, to Tampa, to Trenton, to Scranton to the majors, sweating out injuries and trade rumors along the way.... knowing my heart would have been ripped out of my chest had Phil Hughes been traded for Johan Santana......or had Montero been traded for Lee.....

it's a wild ride. After being so deep into this team for so long, it's hard not to tee off on a casual fan shooting his mouth off, especially the ones who don't like baseball to begin with.

Number one: I don't owe any explanations. Number 2: I want home grown players, not free agents. For every Chan Ho Park making over a million to pitch like crap in relief for my team, I'm tracking a prospect who is being blocked in AAA. This year's version is Jonathan Albaladejo, who is putting up Mariano Rivera-type numbers in AAA, which makes my head explode watching a veteran free agent struggle.

I'm pro-salary cap....Hard salary cap (I don't care what the NBA calls it, the system is exactly like MLB: You go over the threshold, you pay a heavy tax). The NFL's is a good model, but there are too many loopholes in it for my taste. I love the Larry Bird exception from the NBA, though. All major sports should adopt it. Be it Bird, Joe Mauer, or John Elway, every advantage possible should be given to teams to retain their own free agents.

I'm also pro-salary FLOOR. You have to pay to play and I'll never feel sorry for any owner collecting millions from the Steinbrenners when that money isn't invested in the team.

Institute a hard salary cap and floor.

World wide MLB draft.

Don't allow the teams with the top records to indiscriminately sign free agents.

Sign me up. Preaching to the choir.

Best bet would be to combine the best ideas from MLB, the NFL, and the NBA. I know the unannointed will tell me MLB has no good ideas, but their free agency compensation system is top notch. Here's how it would have worked with Lebron James:

The Cavs would have received the Heat's 1st round draft pick plus a second pick, a "sandwich" pick between the 1st and 2nd rounds. Perfect? No, but it beats the hell out of no compensation.

A little creativity from the commissioner's office would go a long ways.

In the mean time, Yankees fans are not to blame for the system. Since being a Yankees fan automatically makes me a bad guy, though, I'll run with it and enjoy the role. Hell, just call me Ivan Drago.

The thing that will not go away: MLB needs The Evil Empire. No american sport is as tied to one team as MLB is to the Yankees. Ask a Red Sox fan what 2004 felt like. I embrace the "us against the world" mentality.

keithbishop
07-10-2010, 07:05 PM
I agree with that. MLB's system is what promotes the Yankee's unfair advantage. But they still have one. I don't blame them for exploiting the system, that's what you're supposed to do. But I think despite that all my points still hold true. As long as they have that advantage, they'll win, and people will be upset and criticize, and that's what it is.

Personally I don't hate the Yankees. I'm just saying that's how I see it. I mean, it's MLB's fault. But they leave it that way because people are silly enough to blame the Yankees, thus Yankee love, Yankee hate. That's what works for baseball, and that's why MLB will keep in that way. (Which does seem lame to me.)

Nothing sells like Yankees love/hate. It's MLB's longest, best ongoing story. From Ruth and Gehrig to Jeter and A-Rod. The $$ amounts have changed, but the story remains the same.

Personally, I love being a fan of the most hated team.

Maharishineo
07-11-2010, 12:12 AM
The Cavs would have received the Heat's 1st round draft pick plus a second pick, a "sandwich" pick between the 1st and 2nd rounds. Perfect? No, but it beats the hell out of no compensation.

A little creativity from the commissioner's office would go a long ways.

It wasn't implemented by the league, but the Cavs did concede to a sign-and-trade that got them two 1sts, two 2nds, and a trade exception, I believe.

And as far as fans go, it's not you I have a problem with. In fact, by all that you've said... wow. Props, kudos, you're a little nuts, and it's awesome. It's the fair-weather fans that happens to like a team that's usually in fair weather, if that makes any sense, that irk me.


Personally, I love being a fan of the most hated team.

To be honest, I'm a LeBron fan when it comes to basketball. I'll always root for the Broncos and Astros. All I knew when I was first getting into basketball about LeBron was that he was this 'chosen one' and he failed to make the playoffs his first two years. I bought into wanting to see this kid come into his own, and prove everybody right. but what I'm trying to get at, is that:

I guess I should take notes then, following LeBron on the Heat from here on out. :laugh:

keithbishop
07-11-2010, 04:48 AM
It wasn't implemented by the league, but the Cavs did concede to a sign-and-trade that got them two 1sts, two 2nds, and a trade exception, I believe.

And as far as fans go, it's not you I have a problem with. In fact, by all that you've said... wow. Props, kudos, you're a little nuts, and it's awesome. It's the fair-weather fans that happens to like a team that's usually in fair weather, if that makes any sense, that irk me.



To be honest, I'm a LeBron fan when it comes to basketball. I'll always root for the Broncos and Astros. All I knew when I was first getting into basketball about LeBron was that he was this 'chosen one' and he failed to make the playoffs his first two years. I bought into wanting to see this kid come into his own, and prove everybody right. but what I'm trying to get at, is that:

I guess I should take notes then, following LeBron on the Heat from here on out. :laugh:

Wow. I guess I was so put off by the ESPN special (can you imagine the public outcry if A-Rod pulled something like that?) that I didn't follow the details. Kudos to Cleveland for making it a sign and trade.

It was Dr. J all the way when I was a kid. Couldn't change teams, but I desperately wanted to when Philly traded Barkley for a whole bunch of nothing (he had to be traded, but trading a future HOFer in the prime of his career should net you SOMETHING).

Yeah, the fair weather thing ticks me off, too. My grandpa (R.I.P.) was the biggest KC A's/Royals fan.... wouldn't have mattered if they went 12-150, he wouldn't change colors. He was a huge Chiefs fan, too. He had to LOVE the fact I was a Broncos fan. LOL. I was stubborn even as a little kid. Had to have all my own teams, with the exception of Kansas Jayhawk basketball.

Yeah, nuts, indeed. Blame the internet. LOL. I keep telling my son how differen things were. MLB had televised games on Monday and Saturday. Unless the Yankees played KC (a local station showed many of the Royals games), I might get to see 2 Yankees games a month (if I was lucky) back then. Beyond my subscription to The Sporting News, had to go to the library to read the NY papers to get any minor league info.

Astros.... it has to hurt listening to all the Oswalt trade rumors.

Bernie24
07-11-2010, 07:33 AM
Strange.... the NBA has the same system as MLB: Luxury tax, not a salary cap. That isn't news to an NBA fan, right?

Stranger yet, the Yankees FA additions last winter:
Reserve OF Randy Winn -- 1 year $ 1.1 mil. plus $900 K incentives.

Which of them was the #1 free agent? Do you have any idea who Thames or Winn are? Neither has been a "top free agent" at any point in their careers. Both are very likely in their final season in the majors.

Like I said, I love the whining..... especially the misinformed variety.

Whatever the NBA runs their system better I guess because at least there are two powerhouses in that, and most teams are still competitive. That almost every team in the league has a chance to go all the way.

You simply can't say that about baseball.

Didn't you guys sign CC Sabathia this summer?

keithbishop
07-11-2010, 08:19 AM
Whatever the NBA runs their system better I guess because at least there are two powerhouses in that, and most teams are still competitive. That almost every team in the league has a chance to go all the way.

You simply can't say that about baseball.

Didn't you guys sign CC Sabathia this summer?

CC was signed winter of 2008. I guess I left out Nick Johnson as a 2009 free agent because he's likely out for the year after wrist surgery. Left out Chan Ho Park, too. They signed 4 players (Winn, Johnson, Park and Thames) to 1 year deals for a total of $8.7 mil. after winning the world series last season.
Not sure what Park was thinking. He rejected a 1 year/ $3 mil. deal from the Phillies, thinking he could land a multi year deal. No such luck. He ended up getting $1.2 mil., a pay cut of $2.3 mil. from what he made last season. None of the 4 is anywhere near being a "top free agent". Every so called baseball "expert" KNEW the Yankees would sign Jason Bay, Matt Holliday, and John Lackey last summer. Didn't happen. They didn't even make a bid on any of the big FA's last winter. Teams that stay strong long term HAVE to be a mix of trades, free agents, and home grown players. It's always been that way in MLB. George Steinbrenner tried buying every free agent in the 80's. His approach failed miserably. Chemistry is never, ever built that way and far too many prospects were traded for journeyman major leaguers. What the Yankees might have been in those years had they not traded Doug Drabek, Willie McGee, Fred McGriff, and Jay Buhner for substandard vets. It was an awful time to be a Yankees fan.


Sure, they can and will spend (wouldn't you in the MLB system?) , but, counting the starting lineup, starting rotation, top 3 bench spots, and top 5 spots in the bullpen, here's the breakdown (Thames isn't an everyday player, but I'll call him one because Johnson would be the DH if he were healthy):

Free Agents: 5

Acquired by trade: 5

Home grown: 12

People are so in the habit of thinking "the Yankees buy every free agent", they swear it to be a fact, truth be damned.

The other 3 roster spots, FWIW:
1 minor league FA -- RHRP Dustin Moseley was non-tendered by the Angels after the 2009 season.

1 player claimed on waivers -- RHRP Chad Gaudin was released by the Yankees in spring training, then brought back after the A's released him in May. I look for the Yankees to release him next week.

1 home grown players-- utility IF/OF Kevin Russo.



I'm still not sure where people get the "Yankees win it every year" stuff. Last 2 titles were in 2000 and 2009.

I would love for the system to be changed. Not sure how I'm supposed to do it as a fan. I have a ton of ideas that would be healthy for the game and increase the odds of prospects I root for being in the starting lineup. I want to know how I'm supposed to switch teams after rooting for the Yankees (Broncos, too) since I was 7. 1 reason would be plenty.

My goal for next season is to replace our FA DH spot with home grown Jesus Montero, our top prospect. Should have a couple of kids moving up from the AAA bullpen to replace FA Chan Ho Park next season, too. Hell, I want Park gone now.

I can't stand the NBA (used to love it), but that's personal preference. Kudos to those who enjoy it. It's never been my place to tell others what sports/teams they should follow.

Maharishineo
07-11-2010, 10:03 AM
Wow. I guess I was so put off by the ESPN special (can you imagine the public outcry if A-Rod pulled something like that?) that I didn't follow the details. Kudos to Cleveland for making it a sign and trade.

Astros.... it has to hurt listening to all the Oswalt trade rumors.

Yeah, I was pretty disappointed in LeBron myself for doing the special. I think the sign-and-trade was post-special fall-out.

I don't know. In my opinion, it seems like the Astros are pretty good in their own right when it comes to their farm system. But then they make pretty lousy trades and FA moves. It's like they do such a good job, and then they shoot themselves in the foot. But that's just the opinion of somebody who watches from afar. So either way, it doesn't surprise me with Roy O. He wants to win, and heck, he deserves to. It doesn't seem like we're going to get back there anytime soon. I would've perhaps liked to see the trade to the Rangers, at least it would've been reminiscent of Nolan Ryan staying in state.


Free Agents: 5

Acquired by trade: 5

Home grown: 12

1. Curious question as somebody who doesn't follow the sport in depth: what's the typical breakdown like?

2. Acquired by trade is pretty significant. I mean, that plus the FA could potentially put the number at 10. But going back to the Rangers, there's no way that they're going to be able to keep Lee. The Yankee's money allows them not only to pick up FAs, but is also a factor for them when making trades and keeping those players.

keithbishop
07-11-2010, 11:18 AM
Yeah, I was pretty disappointed in LeBron myself for doing the special. I think the sign-and-trade was post-special fall-out.

I don't know. In my opinion, it seems like the Astros are pretty good in their own right when it comes to their farm system. But then they make pretty lousy trades and FA moves. It's like they do such a good job, and then they shoot themselves in the foot. But that's just the opinion of somebody who watches from afar. So either way, it doesn't surprise me with Roy O. He wants to win, and heck, he deserves to. It doesn't seem like we're going to get back there anytime soon. I would've perhaps liked to see the trade to the Rangers, at least it would've been reminiscent of Nolan Ryan staying in state.



1. Curious question as somebody who doesn't follow the sport in depth: what's the typical breakdown like?

2. Acquired by trade is pretty significant. I mean, that plus the FA could potentially put the number at 10. But going back to the Rangers, there's no way that they're going to be able to keep Lee. The Yankee's money allows them not only to pick up FAs, but is also a factor for them when making trades and keeping those players.

It's a fair % of home grown players for a big market team. Certainly defies the myth of "mostly free agents".

Glancing at the Mets, for example (off the top of my head):

LF, CF, Closer, top 2 catchers, 2B, utility IF from FA (CF and 2B are on the disabled list)

3B, SS, 1B, #2 SP home grown

#1 starter and RF from trade

I can't break down their entire roster, but that's a glance at some of the top spots.


Trades for big $$ are a good point, but there are 2 types of trades.

A-Rod certainly would be the 1st to spring to mind, but that trade only took place with the Yankees willingness to part with major home grown talent (Alfonso Soriano).

The other trade route landed the Yankees Nick Swisher. He's not a big $$ player ($6.75 mil. this season) , but White Sox manager Ozzie Guillen hated him. He had a miserable year in Chicago, playing out of position in CF and leading off. Ozzie only knows why-- Swisher's top 2 positions are RF and
1B.... and best lineup spots are #2 or #6. Thrilled to see Swisher as an all star this year. Great guy to have on any team but the White Sox.

Javy Vazquez was traded to the Yankees (for a 2nd time) due to the ridiculous contract the Braves gave Derek Lowe. They needed a young affordable OF and landed Melky Cabrera plus a top pitching prospect from the Yankees.

FA signee Nick Johnson, BTW, was drafted and developed by the Yankees. He was traded to the Expos the 1st time the Yankees traded for Vazquez.

CF Curtis Granderson (not a huge $$ guy, either) is a big risk. The Yankees rolled the dice that their then #2 prospect, CF Austin Jackson, wasn't ready for the majors. The deal looks bad for NY thus far. Jackson had an incredible
1st 2 months for Detroit and Granderson is off to a poor start. It will take a couple years to fairly judge the trade. I hated to lose Jackson, a gifted defender with blinding speed and some power potential. Jackson's #'s have dropped as pitchers are getting used to him, but he is capable of making adjustments as he gains experience. Granderson is very talented, though. Hope he picks things up in the 2nd half. Needs to hit much better vs. LHP.

Teams like the Yankees, Mets, Dodgers, Cubs, Phillies, and Angels can spend as much as they want. Don't ask me why, as their owner is loaded (far more $$ than the Steinbrenners), but the Angels rarely make much of an effort to retain their own free agents.

I'd like to see more balance. I'd be thrilled to see the Yankees increase their % of home grown players. They have worked to increase it in latter years. Having a cost controlled home grown player for his 1st 6 years, then extending his contract at least a year before he hits FA is the optimal route.


Lee could end up signing with the Yankees as a free agent. It depends on expiring contracts, though. Javy Vazquez and Andy Pettitte are FAs after the season. Pettitte has hinted at retirement the past few years. The Yankees love Lee, who really wanted to be traded to NY.... doesn't hurt that CC Sabathia is his best friend, either. Pettitte is having a great year. I hope this isn't his last. Vazquez has been our 2nd best starting pitcher the past few months. His performance the rest of the year plus his contract demands will determine his fate. Jeter and Mariano Rivera are free agents after the season. 95% chance both stay, but their negotiations are directly tied to what the Yankees do in the offseason. It's going to be a wild winter in New York.

kmcgough25
07-12-2010, 08:16 AM
Have to agree with you Keith. If the Yankees don't win, it's "see, $$ doesn't buy titles!" and if the Yankees win, it isn't fair because they have so much $$ to spend.

And, hey, I'm still not giving up on the Sox, regardless of the injuries.