PDA

View Full Version : Who wins an NBA Championship first?



Broncoholic JS
11-16-2010, 09:36 PM
Ok, so I have been thinking about this a lot lately with the Carmelo rumors swirling around. Who will win a title first?

1. Carmelo Anthony with the Nuggets
2. Carmelo Anthony with another NBA team
3. LeBron James and the "big 3" in Miami

What does everyone think?

Do you think that Carmelo will stay here in Denver and shock the world?

Do you think that Carmelo and LeBron both retire with no rings?

thatkidhunt
11-16-2010, 09:38 PM
Ok, so I have been thinking about this a lot lately with the Carmelo rumors swirling around. Who will win a title first?

1. Carmelo Anthony with the Nuggets
2. Carmelo Anthony with another NBA team
3. LeBron James and the "big 3" in Miami

What does everyone think?

Do you think that Carmelo will stay here in Denver and shock the world?

Do you think that Carmelo and LeBron both retire with no rings?

Lebron in Miami.


It can't be Carmelo with the Nuggets because he will be gone by the end of the year.

Just my :2cents:

Southstander
11-16-2010, 09:46 PM
It could be none of the above.

Spyder
11-16-2010, 09:55 PM
LeBron may win one, but I'd put my money on Wade getting them there and carrying them in clutch situations. Chris Bosh is highly overrated and always been, one of the softest players in the league. Fortunately the NBA isn't stacked with a whole ton of good teams, the only team I see being a major factor in the East against the Heat happen to be the Celtics, but with the age on most of those guys, who knows..

Carmelo? Nah. He'll never win one with the Nuggets or without the Nuggets.

GridironChamp
11-17-2010, 01:06 PM
LeBron may win one, but I'd put my money on Wade getting them there and carrying them in clutch situations. Chris Bosh is highly overrated and always been, one of the softest players in the league. Fortunately the NBA isn't stacked with a whole ton of good teams, the only team I see being a major factor in the East against the Heat happen to be the Celtics, but with the age on most of those guys, who knows..

Carmelo? Nah. He'll never win one with the Nuggets or without the Nuggets.

I suggest you watch Miami before you say Wade carrying them. They only look
really good/dominant with James playing point.

Amari24
11-17-2010, 01:59 PM
I don't even think Lebron wins one at all. He'll retire with no ring(s), to go along with his great career, ala Charles Barkley. Carmelo will be gone before or during the All-Star break, so there shouldn't even be a 'with Denver' option up there.

Amari24
11-17-2010, 02:01 PM
I suggest you watch Miami before you say Wade carrying them. They only look
really good/dominant with James playing point.

I can actually see where he's coming from, Wade has been the one knocking down the clutch shots, to keep Miami in the game when they're down late. He did the same thing Vs. Utah, he gave his team a chance to win by knocking down a late 3 pointer (or was it a 2?).

GridironChamp
11-17-2010, 02:54 PM
I can actually see where he's coming from, Wade has been the one knocking down the clutch shots, to keep Miami in the game when they're down late. He did the same thing Vs. Utah, he gave his team a chance to win by knocking down a late 3 pointer (or was it a 2?).

I disagree 100%. Sure, Wade has the points, and the shots to go with it, so he
might appear to be keeping them in games on a stat sheet or play by play, but
James controls the team/whole game when playing point. (Just like Rondo with the
Celtics)

I think James gets a ring, i think Miami wins the Championship within 3 years, at
the latest.

Spyder
11-17-2010, 04:01 PM
I suggest you watch Miami before you say Wade carrying them. They only look
really good/dominant with James playing point.

I actually have watched every game to this point and I continue to stand by my point. Dwayne Wade is a clutch player and has the Championship ring to prove it. Lebron? Eh, not so much. He's always controlled games when he has the ball in his hands, no one is denying his ability to find the open man and make plays in that regard. Wade is simply the more clutch player and as I said in my previous post; will be the one to carry them to a title, if they ever win one. His clutch shots will affect the game more than what Lebron is able to do at this point.

If you want to argue that, see who has a ring and who doesn't right now.

Your bandwagon jumping of Lebron is blinding you.

ERoyal248
11-17-2010, 08:44 PM
Probably the "Big 3" in Miami.

Carmelo isn't winning anything with the Knicks, that team is garbage. Assuming he goes there via FA and/or trade.

GridironChamp
11-17-2010, 09:46 PM
I actually have watched every game to this point and I continue to stand by my point. Dwayne Wade is a clutch player and has the Championship ring to prove it. Lebron? Eh, not so much. He's always controlled games when he has the ball in his hands, no one is denying his ability to find the open man and make plays in that regard. Wade is simply the more clutch player and as I said in my previous post; will be the one to carry them to a title, if they ever win one. His clutch shots will affect the game more than what Lebron is able to do at this point.

If you want to argue that, see who has a ring and who doesn't right now.

Your bandwagon jumping of Lebron is blinding you.

If you've watched any game I don't see how you can say that. Your basis for your
whole argument, which I could also disagree with based on James leading the
league in 4th quarter scoring for how many seasons now, is Wade makes clutch
shots?? I guess Robert Horry led a lot of Championship teams then, huh?? :confused:

Wade will not "carry" them, he might make a more clutch shots, but that is not
carrying them. James will carry them, like Rondo carries the Celtics. Who makes
their clutch shots? Allen, do we say Allen carries them? Nope. James will have
to be the driving force behind the Heat (as a PG, not a Point Forward, or SF).

I don't think it's bandwagon, seeming I've always liked him and always will. I've
always said I root for him not the Cavs. Now I rood for him to win, still.

Spyder
11-17-2010, 10:16 PM
If you've watched any game I don't see how you can say that. Your basis for your
whole argument, which I could also disagree with based on James leading the
league in 4th quarter scoring for how many seasons now, is Wade makes clutch
shots?? I guess Robert Horry led a lot of Championship teams then, huh?? :confused:

Well then much of your argument is flawed, not just from here, but from past arguments we have had on Lebron and his direct influence on his team winning games. He's lead the league in 4th Quarter scoring for 3-4 years and has had extremely good regular season records, though he has choked it away come playoff time, yes? You continued to argue the fact that the Cavs were without any other true playmakers and thus the team lived and died with Lebron, yes? So either these 4th Quarter stats are a bit inflated due to that fact, or Lebron simply isn't much of a clutch player when it actually counts; You know, come April, May and June.

Also, comparing Robert Horry's who's career PPG which is like 8.0 and Dwayne Wade's which is right around 25-26 isn't the best comparison you could have brought up. Robert Horry, much like Derek Fisher, were the product of being in the right place at the right time and making shots when they actually mattered. Yet I doubt you're willing to make an argument that Derek Fisher is a better player than Lebron.


Wade will not "carry" them, he might make a more clutch shots, but that is not
carrying them. James will carry them, like Rondo carries the Celtics. Who makes
their clutch shots? Allen, do we say Allen carries them? Nope. James will have
to be the driving force behind the Heat (as a PG, not a Point Forward, or SF).

Dwayne Wade was the most vital player on the 2005-2006 Miami Heat team and it wasn't even close. Shaq had his influence on the team from a defensive and rebounding perspective, but if you were an NBA fan at that time, you would understand Dwayne Wade's impact, not only in the Finals, but throughout that entire playoff year.

Rondo only carried the Celtics for one season, yes even beating the heavily favored Cavs where Lebron quit on his team, and even then did it lead to a ring? Nope. The year he got a ring was the year that the Big 3 were still amongst some of the best individual players in the game.

Lebron will have his impact, he's talented enough when he doesn't quit, but Dwayne Wade is still the engine that will move that car. Lebron isn't the center piece any longer, he announced that when he took his talents to South Beach.


I don't think it's bandwagon, seeming I've always liked him and always will. I've
always said I root for him not the Cavs. Now I rood for him to win, still.

Don't sweat it too much.
I'd say a large portion of the east coast jumped on the Miami bandwagon this summer. You guys could probably fill out that arena more than the actual people in Miami.

GridironChamp
11-18-2010, 02:20 PM
Well then much of your argument is flawed, not just from here, but from past arguments we have had on Lebron and his direct influence on his team winning games. He's lead the league in 4th Quarter scoring for 3-4 years and has had extremely good regular season records, though he has choked it away come playoff time, yes? You continued to argue the fact that the Cavs were without any other true playmakers and thus the team lived and died with Lebron, yes? So either these 4th Quarter stats are a bit inflated due to that fact, or Lebron simply isn't much of a clutch player when it actually counts; You know, come April, May and June.

Disagree on all of the above and we aren't changing each others mind.

You think Mo Williams dismal shooting and lack of defense and Jamison's faliure
and even worse defense is somehow a credible support cast to do anything,
I do not. I agree James quit, and he shouldn't have, but I think it was because
he realized nothing he could do would win them games. You clearly are the opposite
side.

As for 4th quarter stats, I'd say they are inflated because no one else on the
team was worthwhile. I still gave you Wade more clutch shots, but as a player
it is debatable. What's more important, one single shot or a whole quarter? It's
all in someones personal opinion.


Also, comparing Robert Horry's who's career PPG which is like 8.0 and Dwayne Wade's which is right around 25-26 isn't the best comparison you could have brought up. Robert Horry, much like Derek Fisher, were the product of being in the right place at the right time and making shots when they actually mattered. Yet I doubt you're willing to make an argument that Derek Fisher is a better player than Lebron.


I was showing the flaw in your logic. You say Wade makes the clutch shots,
thus carrying the team. Therefor Horry carried Championship teams. That is
exactly what you said.



Dwayne Wade was the most vital player on the 2005-2006 Miami Heat team and it wasn't even close. Shaq had his influence on the team from a defensive and rebounding perspective, but if you were an NBA fan at that time, you would understand Dwayne Wade's impact, not only in the Finals, but throughout that entire playoff year.

Rondo only carried the Celtics for one season, yes even beating the heavily favored Cavs where Lebron quit on his team, and even then did it lead to a ring? Nope. The year he got a ring was the year that the Big 3 were still amongst some of the best individual players in the game.

What Wade did in the playoffs was amazing, no doubting that. He has also
proven he hasn't done it since, has he not?? :confused:

Again with Celtics example, much like Horry, it shows the flaw in your side: Anyone
watching the Celtic's now knows Rondo leads that team, yet by your apparent
logic Allen does.


Lebron will have his impact, he's talented enough when he doesn't quit, but Dwayne Wade is still the engine that will move that car. Lebron isn't the center piece any longer, he announced that when he took his talents to South Beach.

Disagree, disagree, disagree. When they play good it is LeBron making it happen.
Wade is not the reason they blew out Orlando, Pho, or even came back against
Boston. James is. We'll see as the year goes on, but especially when you watch
James play with other guys compared to Wade, I think we are going to see
James run the team.




Don't sweat it too much.
I'd say a large portion of the east coast jumped on the Miami bandwagon this summer. You guys could probably fill out that arena more than the actual people in Miami.

I guess I should just start rooting for one of the two most prominent team in
NBA history then??? That would certainly be better! :doh:

Spyder
11-18-2010, 05:26 PM
Disagree on all of the above and we aren't changing each others mind.

You think Mo Williams dismal shooting and lack of defense and Jamison's faliure
and even worse defense is somehow a credible support cast to do anything,
I do not. I agree James quit, and he shouldn't have, but I think it was because
he realized nothing he could do would win them games. You clearly are the opposite
side.

Stop acting like it was the worst supporting cast around. You act like none of these cats should even be in the NBA. The Cavs had one of the best regular season records in the NBA for around 3 seasons, you can credit 100% of that to Lebron all you want, but then where does he disappear to come playoff time? Place the blame on anyone you want, but to this point Lebron isn't the super hero so many made him out to be.

We're not talking about your average super star here, we're talking about the next Michael Jordan and Oscar Robertson rolled into one, right? Robertson even said so a month or so back.

Oh this isn't even mentioning the fact that when times get a little tough, hey lets quit, we're only making millions of dollars a year but hey... we can't get anything done, let's quit. Wonderful view to defend.


As for 4th quarter stats, I'd say they are inflated because no one else on the
team was worthwhile. I still gave you Wade more clutch shots, but as a player
it is debatable. What's more important, one single shot or a whole quarter? It's
all in someones personal opinion.

It depends. But yet again, most people would tell you that Dwayne Wade put his team on his shoulders much more than Lebron did for the Cavs. Honestly, who was Miami's second best player last season? Try to think of someone without going on google or mentioning Michael Beasley, who was absolutely terrible.


I was showing the flaw in your logic. You say Wade makes the clutch shots,
thus carrying the team. Therefor Horry carried Championship teams. That is
exactly what you said.

That's exactly what I said? You're spinning yourself in a circle that you can't get out of now. I never once mentioned Robert Horry being the backbone to the Spurs or the Lakers Championship teams, that was you misinterpreting the fact that Wade already has a Championship ring. Comparing Robert Horry and Dwayne Wade is silly and I pointed that out. It is no different than trying to say Derek Fisher, someone who has rings, is a better player than Lebron James. Wade has a ring but also happens to be one of the best players in the NBA right now. Robert Horry was an average player at best who happened to make the clutch shot when it mattered.

That analogy is clear to everyone, so again I'm not sure where you're trying to go with this. You know what the funny thing is though? Wade and Horry both have rings. Guess who doesn't?


What Wade did in the playoffs was amazing, no doubting that. He has also
proven he hasn't done it since, has he not?? :confused:

It's the fact that he did do it once and Lebron never did. Ask Dan Marino if he'd trade some of his passings records for one of Elway's rings and I guarantee you the answer would be yes.


Again with Celtics example, much like Horry, it shows the flaw in your side: Anyone
watching the Celtic's now knows Rondo leads that team, yet by your apparent
logic Allen does.

Rondo became the leader of that team sometime last season, it was evident by the time the playoffs rolled around, I never once denied that. I simply pointed out that during their Championship season, Rondo was just another piece in that engine that was ran by Garnett, Allen and Pierce. Again, I don't understand what you're trying to say my logic is. Rondo is a horrible shooter, but brilliant with distributing the ball to the open man and an excellent defender, given his relative lack of size. I don't recall anyone saying he'd be the next great PG though, he was viewed as just another guy who might make it. Lebron? He was supposed to be the next best thing to ever happen to basketball.


Disagree, disagree, disagree. When they play good it is LeBron making it happen.
Wade is not the reason they blew out Orlando, Pho, or even came back against
Boston. James is. We'll see as the year goes on, but especially when you watch
James play with other guys compared to Wade, I think we are going to see
James run the team.

Orlando was the lone impressive win of the season. If you think beating Phoenix at home was anything special, then I don't know what to say. Chris Bosh was a bigger factor in that game than either Lebron or Dwayne, by the way. The come back against Boston doesn't really mean anything because it was still a loss. Garbage time points don't really count. Ask Todd Hailey about that.


I guess I should just start rooting for one of the two most prominent team in
NBA history then??? That would certainly be better! :doh:

Whatever floats your boat. Atleast maybe then you wouldn't have to hop on the boat every 2-3 years. Again, don't sweat it, a lot of people outside of Miami are fans now. The actual people of Miami? Eh, I think they like the actual beach better.

GridironChamp
11-19-2010, 11:33 AM
Stop acting like it was the worst supporting cast around. You act like none of these cats should even be in the NBA. The Cavs had one of the best regular season records in the NBA for around 3 seasons, you can credit 100% of that to Lebron all you want, but then where does he disappear to come playoff time? Place the blame on anyone you want, but to this point Lebron isn't the super hero so many made him out to be.

We're not talking about your average super star here, we're talking about the next Michael Jordan and Oscar Robertson rolled into one, right? Robertson even said so a month or so back.

Oh this isn't even mentioning the fact that when times get a little tough, hey lets quit, we're only making millions of dollars a year but hey... we can't get anything done, let's quit. Wonderful view to defend.

We've been over this time and time again, look at Mo Williams/Delonte West's
combined stats in the last two years in the playoffs. Now look at EVERYONE
not named LeBron James compared to to the "other" players on every other
team to win a playoff game in the last two years. I'm sorry, but the Cavs
supporting cast was horrible IN THE PLAYOFFS. I like you are trying to trash
James for playing bad, which he hasn't actually, in the playoffs but are still
trying to defend the role players who were PISS POOR outside of what Gibson
for one series like 3 years ago?? :confused:

The Cavs supporting cast have SOME decent players, but they choked much
more the James did, they choked more than the Chargers every year.

I never defended him quiting, and he sure quit when it got hard against Det
early on in his career huh??




It depends. But yet again, most people would tell you that Dwayne Wade put his team on his shoulders much more than Lebron did for the Cavs. Honestly, who was Miami's second best player last season? Try to think of someone without going on google or mentioning Michael Beasley, who was absolutely terrible.



Chalmers? Q-Rich? James Jones? Not stellar, and yes worse than the Cavs (and
notice how they did compared to the Cavs). [/quote]


That's exactly what I said? You're spinning yourself in a circle that you can't get out of now. I never once mentioned Robert Horry being the backbone to the Spurs or the Lakers Championship teams, that was you misinterpreting the fact that Wade already has a Championship ring. Comparing Robert Horry and Dwayne Wade is silly and I pointed that out. It is no different than trying to say Derek Fisher, someone who has rings, is a better player than Lebron James. Wade has a ring but also happens to be one of the best players in the NBA right now. Robert Horry was an average player at best who happened to make the clutch shot when it mattered.

That analogy is clear to everyone, so again I'm not sure where you're trying to go with this. You know what the funny thing is though? Wade and Horry both have rings. Guess who doesn't? [/quote]



Wade is simply the more clutch player and as I said in my previous post; will be the one to carry them to a title, if they ever win one. His clutch shots will affect the game more than what Lebron is able to do at this point.

Sorry, you're correct, you didn't say Wades clutch shooting would carry them
to Championships. :rolleyes:

You never once said, "Wades clutch shooting plus leading the team in scoring
will lead them." You just said shots, that was what you said. If you mean the
latter then you have, a somewhat, valid point but I will still take LeBron's points
and assists over Wades points.



It's the fact that he did do it once and Lebron never did. Ask Dan Marino if he'd trade some of his passings records for one of Elway's rings and I guarantee you the answer would be yes.



Rondo became the leader of that team sometime last season, it was evident by the time the playoffs rolled around, I never once denied that. I simply pointed out that during their Championship season, Rondo was just another piece in that engine that was ran by Garnett, Allen and Pierce. Again, I don't understand what you're trying to say my logic is. Rondo is a horrible shooter, but brilliant with distributing the ball to the open man and an excellent defender, given his relative lack of size. I don't recall anyone saying he'd be the next great PG though, he was viewed as just another guy who might make it. Lebron? He was supposed to be the next best thing to ever happen to basketball.

You still don't understand do you?? You claimed Wade's clutch shots were the
reason he would carry the team. Rondo carries the Celtics now, despite Ray
Allen's clutch shooting. Paul Pierce carried them to a championship, despite
Allen's clutch shooting. Clearly you just mean, Wade scoring more points is more
important than LeBron accounting for more points.




Orlando was the lone impressive win of the season. If you think beating Phoenix at home was anything special, then I don't know what to say. Chris Bosh was a bigger factor in that game than either Lebron or Dwayne, by the way. The come back against Boston doesn't really mean anything because it was still a loss. Garbage time points don't really count. Ask Todd Hailey about that.

No, blowing out Pho (who just beat the Lakers and Denver) is a solid performance,
especially how they did it. Really?? James, who was in foul trouble all night wasn't
as big of a factor as Bosh who scored 35!?!?!? No way (PS, The heat played
much better with James in the game than they did with Wad, especially Bosh).
Aww, is someone bitter that they are at the bottom of the AFCW??




Whatever floats your boat. Atleast maybe then you wouldn't have to hop on the boat every 2-3 years. Again, don't sweat it, a lot of people outside of Miami are fans now. The actual people of Miami? Eh, I think they like the actual beach better.

Nah, I'd rather hop around then just lock on the best team year in and year
out because it's the cool thing to do.

GridironChamp
11-19-2010, 11:35 AM
I'm done on this subject because I'm not changing your mind and you're not
changing mine. I'll revisit it down the line once we get a better idea.

Im not gonna tell you to not reply or argue back cuz that's stupid when someone
says that, but I am curious to see if your going to continue to attempt to talk
smack in the thread about anything you can grasp at, my guess is yes because
apparently just debating the topic is too simple for you.

Sparky The Sun Devil
11-19-2010, 01:04 PM
Carmelo + Magic > Heat

Spyder
11-19-2010, 02:46 PM
but I am curious to see if your going to continue to attempt to talk
smack in the thread about anything you can grasp at, my guess is yes because
apparently just debating the topic is too simple for you.

I wasn't aware there was any smack talk going on in this thread. If you can't handle a simple rib about being a bandwagon fan on a message board then I'm not sure how you handle anything in life.

:rolleyes:

BroncoFanBoy
11-19-2010, 03:03 PM
Right now, i would say the big 3 in miami hasn't lived up to expectations (unless the heat have a really crappy tram outside of lebron, wade, and bosh) but i would vote them because:

The Nuggets are still getting things put together. they're a great team, but they have major obstacles to go through. (lakers) and the thunder are going to be really good. Melo hasn't been himself this season.

as for the other team, this part depends on which team he goes to. he was almost traded to the NETS. (who were 12-70 last season) he could go to the knicks. they still need a lot of help. or he could luck out and go to a team like the bulls.

so for now, Heat

BroncoSexyDaddy
11-30-2010, 07:47 PM
Chris Bosh is highly overrated and always been, one of the softest players in the league.

Carmelo? Nah. He'll never win one with
I agree with that,i think C Bosh is a weak link and is very overpaid.If i was Wade and Lebron i would have waited for Carmelo and wanted him instead of paying Bosh all that money.The big 3 should have been Melo,Lebron,and Wade.

Broncoholic3233
11-30-2010, 07:53 PM
I agree with that,i think C Bosh is a weak link and is very overpaid.If i was Wade and Lebron i would have waited for Carmelo and wanted him instead of paying Bosh all that money.The big 3 should have been Melo,Lebron,and Wade.

I don't think that would work at all.

Ball hog. Ball hog. Ball hog.

Way to dysfunctional IMO

BroncoSexyDaddy
11-30-2010, 07:57 PM
I don't think that would work at all.

Ball hog. Ball hog. Ball hog.

Way to dysfunctional IMO

It sure did work in the Olympics,with a lot of ball hogs that year lol.

Broncoholic3233
11-30-2010, 07:58 PM
It sure did work in the Olympics,with a lot of ball hogs that year lol.

It sure could work. I just don't see that working at all. They'd all want the ball in their hands during the clutch, and just see it being a train wreck.

Amari24
12-01-2010, 02:53 PM
It sure did work in the Olympics,with a lot of ball hogs that year lol.

The only reason it worked in the Olympics is because Wade and Lebron had a big to go down low. They had Dwight, and Boozer, and Melo himself was a pretty good post player, as he is now. They made a mistake bringing all 3 of them. Spoelstra should've either took Wade and Bosh, Wade and Lebron, or Lebron and Bosh, not all 3. It's apparent that the 3 of them just can't play together.

BluenOrnge4Life
12-01-2010, 03:19 PM
I think the Heat can gel and definitely win a Championship because they have a ton of talent.

I don't see Melo winning a championship anytime soon, if ever.

The guy just won't fully commit to playing Defense, and his desire to move back to the East Coast will get him traded to a team with far less talent.

He can enjoy being a 1st round doormat in the playoffs every year.

GridironChamp
05-11-2011, 06:49 PM
LeBron may win one, but I'd put my money on Wade getting them there and carrying them in clutch situations. Chris Bosh is highly overrated and always been, one of the softest players in the league. Fortunately the NBA isn't stacked with a whole ton of good teams, the only team I see being a major factor in the East against the Heat happen to be the Celtics, but with the age on most of those guys, who knows..

Carmelo? Nah. He'll never win one with the Nuggets or without the Nuggets.

Well, we've both been right and wrong on this one throughout the whole year.