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View Full Version : So what did Cutler do to keep Bronco fans



PrideisBears
01-16-2011, 03:06 PM
mad at him? I honestly would love to know. If it was that he forced himself out of Denver, well then you would half right on that. That was 50/50 on McD and Cutler. Cutler was immature during the time but McD seemed even worse IMO. Also that is like Colts fans being mad at Elway after he threaten to quit football and go play baseball without even playing a down for them,Cutler at least was here for 3 seasons.

If it is about what he said at training camp, I still don't understand. Bears fans come out in droves every training camp but that training camp was special because of the trade. Same number of fans showed up when Peppers was signed. Also Orton said that he learned more about offense in one season in Denver than he has his entire career with Chicago, should Bears fans call him a traitor and crybaby?

Maybe you guys are waiting on the second coming of Elway and Cutler attitude didn't reflect that? I honestly think fans expectations are way too high at times. Bears fans are still looking for the next Walter Payton and it's futile. There will never be another Payton or Elway.

I honestly just want to know.I can't bring myself to root against former players, I still root for Grossman lol even though he drove me nuts, like Cutler does now. I don't want this to come off as Bears fans>Bronco fans or anything like that, I just want to know why the hate?

Hadez
01-16-2011, 03:19 PM
anyone who hates Cutler for what he did and does not hate Elway for what he did are hypocrites

my ill feelings are towards the Bronco leadership for allowing it to get that far.

red19
01-16-2011, 03:24 PM
Cutler is a part of this teams history and I will always root for him, much like McDaniels.
Both McDaniels and Cutler played key roles in us aquiring Tim Tebow. And I for one believe Tebow can be a better player than Jay Cutler.

BroncoBryce
01-16-2011, 03:29 PM
mad at him? I honestly would love to know. If it was that he forced himself out of Denver, well then you would half right on that. That was 50/50 on McD and Cutler. Cutler was immature during the time but McD seemed even worse IMO. Also that is like Colts fans being mad at Elway after he threaten to quit football and go play baseball without even playing a down for them,Cutler at least was here for 3 seasons.

If it is about what he said at training camp, I still don't understand. Bears fans come out in droves every training camp but that training camp was special because of the trade. Same number of fans showed up when Peppers was signed. Also Orton said that he learned more about offense in one season in Denver than he has his entire career with Chicago, should Bears fans call him a traitor and crybaby?

Maybe you guys are waiting on the second coming of Elway and Cutler attitude didn't reflect that? I honestly think fans expectations are way too high at times. Bears fans are still looking for the next Walter Payton and it's futile. There will never be another Payton or Elway.

I honestly just want to know.I can't bring myself to root against former players, I still root for Grossman lol even though he drove me nuts, like Cutler does now. I don't want this to come off as Bears fans>Bronco fans or anything like that, I just want to know why the hate?

Cutler is a crybaby, thinks he's god and treats people like crap. And really what do you care?

PrideisBears
01-16-2011, 03:36 PM
Cutler is a crybaby, thinks he's god and treats people like crap. And really what do you care?

You'll have to explain. While Cutler does seem mopey all the time, his teammates like him. I don't see someone who buys presents for sick kids
and visits them frequently someone who thinks he is god. Also Cutler just seems to hate the media but he isn't even the worst Bear with the media. Urlacher is way worse

Garywolf001
01-16-2011, 03:51 PM
I liked Cutler until I heard him say He played for himself and the guys in the locker room and no one on the team is from the Broncos Superbowl teams, or something similar to that. I realize a person must love the game and play because he loves the game for himself, but a NFL player needs to understand he has that job because of the fans and because of the history of that team.

BroncoFan46
01-16-2011, 03:59 PM
I think people are just bitter and are mad cuz he's doing great in Chicago. What's better, being in the Conference Title Game or dwelling at the bottom of the NFL's second worst division? You be the judge.

PrideisBears
01-16-2011, 04:12 PM
I liked Cutler until I heard him say He played for himself and the guys in the locker room and no one on the team is from the Broncos Superbowl teams, or something similar to that. I realize a person must love the game and play because he loves the game for himself, but a NFL player needs to understand he has that job because of the fans and because of the history of that team.

Agreed, that statement wouldn't make me dislike Cutler but it is a valid point

Da Swerski
01-16-2011, 04:15 PM
I think people are just bitter and are mad cuz he's doing great in Chicago. What's better, being in the Conference Title Game or dwelling at the bottom of the NFL's second worst division? You be the judge.
I'll just never understand why Cutler seems to get most of the blame.

Did he ask to be traded to Bucs for Matt Cassel? When he tries to work it out with McD. Josh says it can happen again, which he had every right to do. Most franchise QB's like to know they're the guy. So if McDaniels was looking for a guy who fit his system, and Jay wasn't the guy. It was better for everyone involved he moved on.

BroncoBryce
01-16-2011, 04:26 PM
You'll have to explain. While Cutler does seem mopey all the time, his teammates like him. I don't see someone who buys presents for sick kids
and visits them frequently someone who thinks he is god. Also Cutler just seems to hate the media but he isn't even the worst Bear with the media. Urlacher is way worse

Read this if you want an explanation.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/news/story?id=6017986

PrideisBears
01-16-2011, 04:34 PM
Read this if you want an explanation.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/news/story?id=6017986

I've read that article and Reilly has been blasted by other members of the media because of it. How do you get upset with someone because they didn't want to discuss what they did for a bunch of sick kids?

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
01-16-2011, 04:46 PM
I'm over what Cutler did here. I don't know if I'll ever be a fan of his. I was souring on him his last year here.

However, I've always liked the Bears and it was good to see them win today. I'm happy the Bears finally have a QB who can make plays for them. It seems like they've had a long history of mediocrity or worst at that position.

BroncoBryce
01-16-2011, 05:05 PM
I've read that article and Reilly has been blasted by other members of the media because of it. How do you get upset with someone because they didn't want to discuss what they did for a bunch of sick kids?

Umm, that's not why. I seem to remember some other things in the article besides him not wanting to talk about the sick kids.
Listen, you asked, I told you. If you don't like the answer, well, no skin off my back.
And honestly if you don't know why Bronco fans hate Cutler, I don't know what else to tell you. It really isn't that hard to figure out.

JaysusCutler
01-16-2011, 05:12 PM
McDaniels just answered a phone call and listened. He didn't pursue trading him until Cutler refused to talk to Pat Bowlen.
Also Cutler is so talented and he pisses it away with terrible decisions and a bad attitude. He should have had us in the playoffs multiple years but he sucked when it counted.

I liked Cutler, but his whole demeanor has made me hate him. He's probably the leagues most hated player for the same reason

JaysusCutler
01-16-2011, 05:14 PM
I've read that article and Reilly has been blasted by other members of the media because of it. How do you get upset with someone because they didn't want to discuss what they did for a bunch of sick kids?

PFT totally misunderstood the article. It said he's not likeable but he does do some good things. He wasn't saying its bad he doesn't want to talk about it

AznBroncoFan
01-16-2011, 09:19 PM
McDaniels just answered a phone call and listened. He didn't pursue trading him until Cutler refused to talk to Pat Bowlen.
Also Cutler is so talented and he pisses it away with terrible decisions and a bad attitude. He should have had us in the playoffs multiple years but he sucked when it counted.

I liked Cutler, but his whole demeanor has made me hate him. He's probably the leagues most hated player for the same reason

Really?! I'd love to hear from other players around the league and not just reilly please.

Da Swerski
01-16-2011, 10:10 PM
McDaniels just answered a phone call and listened. He didn't pursue trading him until Cutler refused to talk to Pat Bowlen.
Also Cutler is so talented and he pisses it away with terrible decisions and a bad attitude. He should have had us in the playoffs multiple years but he sucked when it counted.

I liked Cutler, but his whole demeanor has made me hate him. He's probably the leagues most hated player for the same reason
You really believe that? No member of the media disputes that all of this started with a failed trade attempt. Only random Bronco's fans seem to cling to initial reports when McD first denied it before later admitting he lied to Cutler. Regardless if you think Cutler is good or sucks. It's pretty well documented what happened.

on2
01-16-2011, 10:31 PM
I'm not a Cutler fan now and I didn't like the way things happened when he left.

However, as someone that has always said "he hasn't done anything in the NFL yet..." I'm hoping he continues to win. If it's his year to prove to the world he can get to the big game, let it be.

I think it's his year.

(caution: I'm 0 for 1000 on predictions. I should be a psychic).

LSIGRAD09
01-16-2011, 10:41 PM
I think it was more McDaniels than Cutler that caused the issue, but I could be wrong.
Cutler hasn't made the best reputation for himself.

TheBroncoEra
01-17-2011, 12:27 AM
mad at him? I honestly would love to know. If it was that he forced himself out of Denver, well then you would half right on that. That was 50/50 on McD and Cutler. Cutler was immature during the time but McD seemed even worse IMO. Also that is like Colts fans being mad at Elway after he threaten to quit football and go play baseball without even playing a down for them,Cutler at least was here for 3 seasons.

If it is about what he said at training camp, I still don't understand. Bears fans come out in droves every training camp but that training camp was special because of the trade. Same number of fans showed up when Peppers was signed. Also Orton said that he learned more about offense in one season in Denver than he has his entire career with Chicago, should Bears fans call him a traitor and crybaby?

Maybe you guys are waiting on the second coming of Elway and Cutler attitude didn't reflect that? I honestly think fans expectations are way too high at times. Bears fans are still looking for the next Walter Payton and it's futile. There will never be another Payton or Elway.

I honestly just want to know.I can't bring myself to root against former players, I still root for Grossman lol even though he drove me nuts, like Cutler does now. I don't want this to come off as Bears fans>Bronco fans or anything like that, I just want to know why the hate?

For one dissing us as a fan base when there was absolutely no need for it, and the reports that he allegedly didn't call Pat Bowlen back. To me that is a sign of the ultimate disrespect, to not even call the owner of the team back. That's understandable if you're mad at the coach, but be a man and call the owner back when he calls you. Plus the way he carries himself screams "arrogant" to me, I obviously don't know him personally so for all I know he's the nicest guy in the world, but that's how I view him.

The truth is the only people that know the full truth of Cutler's departure are Cutler and McDaniels, we as fans have to go off of what the media tells us happened. So naturally we have to pick sides, but the way Cutler couldn't get out of Denver fast enough makes me think (and this is just my opinion) that Cutler saw himself as a guy who couldn't be traded, and when things didn't go his way he wanted out of town. I think Shanahan more or less babied Cutler so he thought he was untouchable, when he found out otherwise he demanded a trade. Like I said I will never know the entire truth of the whole situation, but the way Cutler handled the situation is why I can't stand the guy :salute:

BluenOrnge4Life
01-17-2011, 08:00 AM
mad at him? I honestly would love to know. If it was that he forced himself out of Denver, well then you would half right on that. That was 50/50 on McD and Cutler. Cutler was immature during the time but McD seemed even worse IMO. Also that is like Colts fans being mad at Elway after he threaten to quit football and go play baseball without even playing a down for them,Cutler at least was here for 3 seasons.

If it is about what he said at training camp, I still don't understand. Bears fans come out in droves every training camp but that training camp was special because of the trade. Same number of fans showed up when Peppers was signed. Also Orton said that he learned more about offense in one season in Denver than he has his entire career with Chicago, should Bears fans call him a traitor and crybaby?

Maybe you guys are waiting on the second coming of Elway and Cutler attitude didn't reflect that? I honestly think fans expectations are way too high at times. Bears fans are still looking for the next Walter Payton and it's futile. There will never be another Payton or Elway.

I honestly just want to know.I can't bring myself to root against former players, I still root for Grossman lol even though he drove me nuts, like Cutler does now. I don't want this to come off as Bears fans>Bronco fans or anything like that, I just want to know why the hate?

Because he cried his way out of town. Why do you care?

The Bears are in the NFC Championship game, go celebrate or something.

garzjoe
01-17-2011, 08:22 AM
Sorry I have not read all posts in this thread yet so please forgive me if someone else already addressed what I'm about to post.

In the whole Cutler debacle there is blame all around...first off McDaniel's instigated everything when he looked into trying to trade Cutler for Matt Cassel. Personally I’m not sure why he did anything on the offensive side when most if not all attention should have been on the defensive side (same is true today). I also believe the Broncos FO has some portion of blame as they allowed McDaniel’s to have too much control over personnel to begin with (this was McDaniel’s ultimate downfall in Denver as I do believe McDaniel’s was and will be a good NFL coach). And finally Cutler has blame because of the way he acted.

I personally wanted Cutler to stay because despite some of his issues with arrogance the kid has a lot of talent. The biggest issue I have with Jay is that when Mr. Bowlen (one of the class acts in regards to owners in this NFL) reaches out to you personally you do NOT blow him off. So there is blame all around…I don’t hate Cutler but I do hate that it had to end the way it did.

Thx,
Joe

fightinglee
01-17-2011, 08:36 AM
Bronco fan here and I like Cutler. I think he was immature in the whole McD thing, but I expect it from a young QB out of college who keeps getting told by analysts and the media how great he is going to be.

I didnt expect so much immaturity from McDaniels. That was ridiculous. And the fact the McD didnt seem to be able to get along with anyone and shipped half of the broncos players out whenever they looked at him wrong tells me who was more in the wrong.

Regardless, it went down and I learned to deal with it and hoped for the best for McD and Cutler, but now cutler is fighting to go to the SB in January and McD is unemployed. I will be rooting for Cutler this next week (though its hard because I like rogers, but I am excited for cutler).

JoRo
01-17-2011, 09:15 AM
Personally I've always wondered what really happened. Because if you remember correctly McD and the Denver FO was getting stuff leaked to the media, but you never heard anything from the Cutler camp.


I've moved on from it, but Reilly's story on it made me kind of assume he's just one of those guys who hates the media, so maybe there's a side to it we'll never know.


Either way, glad for him, glad we got Tebow.

JaysusCutler
01-17-2011, 02:37 PM
You really believe that? No member of the media disputes that all of this started with a failed trade attempt. Only random Bronco's fans seem to cling to initial reports when McD first denied it before later admitting he lied to Cutler. Regardless if you think Cutler is good or sucks. It's pretty well documented what happened.

I don't understand where any other idea came from. The truth is that he listened to a phone call and Cutler was offended so he refused to talk to Bowlen, so they traded him. Anything else is just a fabrication. Blame whoever you want though.

JaysusCutler
01-17-2011, 02:40 PM
Really?! I'd love to hear from other players around the league and not just reilly please.

Every Bears fan I know personally (admittedly only a few) hate Cutler. When your own fanbase can't stand you...

saphire1
01-17-2011, 02:48 PM
Every Bears fan I know personally (admittedly only a few) hate Cutler. When your own fanbase can't stand you...

and you admitted you only know a few? which is it? the WHOLE fanbase hates cutler? or the only few you know?

i'm sure the 60k fans was excited to boo him loudly until he silenced them with his first pass. i bet they were even more disgusted with him after shaming the fanbase that way. how dare he throw a td pass? how the heck can they let him know how much they hate him???

LordTrychon
01-17-2011, 02:51 PM
Every Bears fan I know personally (admittedly only a few) hate Cutler. When your own fanbase can't stand you...

And this is despite the glowing reviews that you gave them when he went there, right? ;)

JaysusCutler
01-17-2011, 02:55 PM
And this is despite the glowing reviews that you gave them when he went there, right? ;)

If I can influence people so much that they would hate a guy they've watched for 2 years on their own then I'm very proud of myself. Everyone should already hate John Fox because of the Panther fans' reviews right?

JaysusCutler
01-17-2011, 02:57 PM
and you admitted you only know a few? which is it? the WHOLE fanbase hates cutler? or the only few you know?

i'm sure the 60k fans was excited to boo him loudly until he silenced them with his first pass. i bet they were even more disgusted with him after shaming the fanbase that way. how dare he throw a td pass? how the heck can they let him know how much they hate him???

I hate Nate Jones. When he makes a good play I cheer just as loud as when one of my favorite players does well. Cutler is good 2/3 of the time. The fact that he's just now starting to get it 6 years in is kind of sad.

BroncoBryce
01-17-2011, 03:03 PM
Cutler knew the quickest way to get a huge contract was to be traded. Once he discovered he was going to have to earn it with the new coach, he took the advice of his agent and cried his way out of town.

saphire1
01-17-2011, 04:51 PM
I hate Nate Jones. When he makes a good play I cheer just as loud as when one of my favorite players does well. Cutler is good 2/3 of the time. The fact that he's just now starting to get it 6 years in is kind of sad.

you mentioned you only know a few bears fans, all of whom hate cutler. then you proceeded to conclude that the "fanbase" hates him. that's sad for chicago if their entire fanbase is composed of the few people you know.

it may be sad, but that's all in the past. if you ask me, its not that bad considering the circumstances he was in. 3 years in denver (1 where he's not the full-year starter, 1 with undiagnosed diabetes, and another year where he has a horrible defense but still managed to get 8 wins out of it). traded to a new team, and his second year in a new team, he's hosting a championship game? not too shabby if you ask me. but i do understand that the league has changed greatly and people want immediate, instant gratification. people have rigged on him for being a loser, etc. but now that's he's in the final four, people are now rigging on why it's taken this long. i dunno, for all that "loser" talk, he shouldnt even be in this position right now. the "loser" is not where he's supposed to be.

the fanbase will not always be 100% happy with any player on the team, even moreso with people that they placed high expectations on. last year, a good % of the chicago fanbase was wondering if urlacher was washed-up and if the bears should usher in a new player at mlb, and now they love again. for all of what julius peppers have done, there are still people that are grumbling at his low sack totals for the money he's made. no fanbase is fully 100% happy at any player at all times.

just in here, there's a great divide between orton and tebow. and even with 3 sb rings and all that magnificent performances in the past, im sure there's a lot of pats fans that are not happy with brady right now because he didnt do his magic yesterday. and that will be all moot if they win another sb again.

Da Swerski
01-17-2011, 07:37 PM
I don't understand where any other idea came from. The truth is that he listened to a phone call and Cutler was offended so he refused to talk to Bowlen, so they traded him. Anything else is just a fabrication. Blame whoever you want though.
Fabrication? Guess McDaniels doesn't know what's he's talking about.

March 4th 2009 Gene Wojciechowski writes an article telling Cutler to quit being a cry baby. http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/story?columnist=wojciechowski_gene&id=3946294&sportCat=nfl


"I'm upset," he told The Denver Post. "I mean, I'm really shocked at this point."

And this from Cutler's agent, James "Bus" Cook, who told The Associated Press, "Nobody's going to call the [New York] Giants and ask for Eli [Manning]. Nobody's calling the [Indianapolis] Colts asking about Peyton [Manning]. [Tom] Brady? Come on. So, why call Denver and ask about Jay? And if they do call, why not say, 'That's not for discussion. What else do you want?'"

March 17th Cutler says he can't trust McDaniels, and asked for a trade: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3983805


Broncos quarterback Jay Cutler said Sunday night he has formally asked Denver to trade him and confirmed that a Saturday meeting with first-year coach Josh McDaniels ended badly from his perspective, while McDaniels offered another viewpoint on Sunday night.

"I went in there with every intention of solving the issue, being a Bronco, moving forward as a Bronco," Cutler said. "We weren't in there but about 20 minutes, [McDaniels] did most of the talking and as far as I'm concerned, he made it clear he wants his own guy. He admitted he wanted Matt Cassel because he said he has raised him up from the ground as a quarterback. He said he wasn't sorry about it. He made it clear that he could still entertain trading me because, as he put it, he'll do whatever he feels is in the best interest of the organization.

"At the end of the meeting, he wasn't like, 'Jay, I want you as our quarterback, you're our guy.' It felt like the opposite. He basically said that I needed to tell him if we can't work this out, to let him know," Cutler added. "I thought he was antagonizing me and that was disappointing because I was ready to move on, committed as a Bronco. Really, I figured we'd hash things out, shake hands, laugh a little and move forward. What happened [Saturday] was the last thing I expected. If I didn't think it could be fixed, I never would have come back to Denver. It was painfully obvious to me and Bus [Cook, his agent] it's not something they want to fix."

Cutler was not present for Monday's team meeting.

"I certainly went back there, expecting I'd be there [Monday] but not now," Cutler said. "It's not mandatory. I'll attend every mandatory minicamp and training camp but that's it. Really, it's best for me to move on. As Coach said, he needs every eye in the meeting room to be on him and not me."

As McDaniels pointed out, Cutler had a completely different expectation when he left their private meeting on Saturday.

Cutler said: "You know, even after the meeting, I hung around town, kind of expecting him to call me and say, 'Hey, let's just me and you get away and have lunch or a cup of coffee' and mend things, but that didn't happen. So, I get it, really, it's a business. I'm disappointed because I love being a Bronco but I think it's run its course."

Cutler feels like McDaniels lost his credibility with him when he initially denied to the quarterback that the Broncos tried to acquire Cassel only to admit it later.

"Before this trade for Cassel thing ever came up, in the two weeks or so I had spent with McDaniels, he was basically telling me that he came to Denver because he wanted to coach me and that we needed to trust each other," Cutler said. "He's never been critical to me. But trust now? How can I trust him now?"

McDaniels (how trust worthy is he?) says that they never wanted to trade Jay AFTER the Cassel deal fell through. But it's CLEARLY obvious it fell through:


McDaniels admitted that the team got involved in trade discussions for Cassel, who instead was dealt to the Kansas City Chiefs. However, he said any perception Cutler felt that the team could still trade him was misleading.

"That's what we have communicated ever since the deal with Cassel didn't happen," McDaniels said. "Other teams have called but we're not interested in getting draft picks for Jay. I never made a statement [Saturday] that 'you can be traded at any time.' They asked a question and I told them it was the time of year when people inquire about your team. Your job, as a head coach and general manager, is to listen and not bypass any opportunity to help your team improve. I think most people [in the NFL] feel the same way. You make smart, educated decisions that are best for your football team."

Also on the Bowlen thing.


As for ignoring phone calls from McDaniels and Bowlen, Cutler said: "Josh and I have exchanged text messages. We had a conference call. And if Pat wanted to speak to me, why didn't he come to the meeting on Saturday?"

from ESPN on the day he was traded http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4037373


Cutler had asked to be traded when he found out first-year Denver coach Josh McDaniels tried to acquire Matt Cassel in a trade with the Patriots.


On Tuesday, Broncos owner Pat Bowlen released a statement saying both he and McDaniels had been unable to get Cutler to call them back during the past 10 days. Cutler also had been staying away from the offseason program.

As a result, the Broncos decided to trade Cutler, whom they were convinced "no longer has any desire to play for the Denver Broncos."

According to NFL senior analyst Chris Mortensen, however, Cutler replied, "No," in a text message when asked whether Bowlen had directly tried to contact him.

Cook said the Broncos first got in touch with him on Tuesday.

"The perception that they've been burning the phone lines the last 10 days is wrong," Cook said. "In fact, the other day, I asked Jay if he had heard from them and he said, 'No.' I didn't hear from them until yesterday [Tuesday] morning when [GM] Brian Xanders called me and said that Mr. Bowlen needs to speak with Jay now. I told him all I can do is leave Jay a message.

"I didn't reach Jay directly -- I don't know what he was doing -- but I left a message. Then Brian called at the end of the day and asked me if I had heard from him. I hadn't. I heard from Jay when he called to tell me he just saw on TV he was being traded. They can spin it the way they want to spin it."

Tons of he said she said. The facts are this started when McD tried to trade Cutler, and he admits to that trade. He denies he would have still traded him past that.

MrO
01-18-2011, 02:20 AM
Cutler knew the quickest way to get a huge contract was to be traded. Once he discovered he was going to have to earn it with the new coach, he took the advice of his agent and cried his way out of town.

You can't really believe that can you ? Cutler, aka Mr. Arrogant, was worried that he couldn't get a new contract coming off a nice statistical year on a team that needed (and now still needs) a QB ? He could've gotten a big deal from half the teams in the league by just showing up. He didn't even break the bank in Chicago anyway.

AC1
01-18-2011, 08:06 PM
mad at him? I honestly would love to know. If it was that he forced himself out of Denver, well then you would half right on that. That was 50/50 on McD and Cutler. Cutler was immature during the time but McD seemed even worse IMO. Also that is like Colts fans being mad at Elway after he threaten to quit football and go play baseball without even playing a down for them,Cutler at least was here for 3 seasons.

If it is about what he said at training camp, I still don't understand. Bears fans come out in droves every training camp but that training camp was special because of the trade. Same number of fans showed up when Peppers was signed. Also Orton said that he learned more about offense in one season in Denver than he has his entire career with Chicago, should Bears fans call him a traitor and crybaby?

Maybe you guys are waiting on the second coming of Elway and Cutler attitude didn't reflect that? I honestly think fans expectations are way too high at times. Bears fans are still looking for the next Walter Payton and it's futile. There will never be another Payton or Elway.

I honestly just want to know.I can't bring myself to root against former players, I still root for Grossman lol even though he drove me nuts, like Cutler does now. I don't want this to come off as Bears fans>Bronco fans or anything like that, I just want to know why the hate?

FWIW, most Broncos fans do like Cutler. There was an initial period right after the trade and through the 2009 season when the Broncos PR machine undertook a serious smear campaign against Cutler. It's clear in hindsight now that the boy genius McDaniels doesn't know his ass from his elbow. He admitted to trying to trade for Cassel and lying to Cutler about it. It's clear now from his interactions with Nolan, Marshall, Hillis, Scheffler (not to mention his initial feud with Brady) that he has a problem with his ego and in getting along with people. Cutler meanwhile has had no issues with anyone before or after McDaniels (even though most of the football media was waiting for him to have a clash with Martz).

Cutler played hard here, didn't complain about losing nearly 30 pounds during the 2007 season due to undiagnosed type-1 diabetes, kept Brandon Marshall in line, mentored the young players (while being a young player himself), went the extra mile with his preparation (coming in on off days to study film, working out with teammates on his own in the offseason) and did some good things in the community with underprivileged kids and kids with diabetes. I, and most Broncos fans, don't see much to hate there, even if the Broncos PR machine did cloud things up for a while.

It might not seem that way on this board where our share of idiots (every team has them) bad-mouth Cutler without reason (you've seen two of them on this thread already), but a lot of Broncos fans are rooting for Cutler and the Bears to win the Super Bowl.

thatkidhunt
01-18-2011, 08:16 PM
I think I have caught more crap for being a fan of Cutler then any person on this board.


There was a point in time (before this season obviously when hating Cutler was not only accepted but pretty much encouraged) where I couldn't find anybody to agree that they thought Cutler was good.


Everything that ever came out of anybody's mouth was how he was this or he was that......____ (insert negative comment here)


I have stuck up and defended him since he got traded.


He may not be the media's dream but who cares, I don't.


The guy is a pretty damn good QB and he's only going to get better.


The NFC better hope the Bears don't actually get a few real offensive weapons to put around him........

JaysusCutler
01-18-2011, 08:17 PM
Cutler played hard here, didn't complain about losing nearly 30 pounds during the 2007 season due to undiagnosed type-1 diabetes.

Didn't complain? How could anyone complain about that? "Wahhh I'm losing weight"?


It might not seem that way on this board where our share of idiots (every team has them) bad-mouth Cutler without reason (you've seen two of them on this thread already), but a lot of Broncos fans are rooting for Cutler and the Bears to win the Super Bowl.

Ok, anyone who disagrees with you is any idiot. Makes sense...

Da Swerski
01-18-2011, 08:36 PM
Didn't complain? How could anyone complain about that? "Wahhh I'm losing weight"?
He was losing weight from a serious medical condition that can have serious consequences. You don't understand that?

thatkidhunt
01-18-2011, 08:37 PM
He was losing weight from a serious medical condition that can have serious consequences. You don't understand that?

No, he doesn't.


As his sarcastic post would indicate......

AC1
01-18-2011, 09:01 PM
I think I have caught more crap for being a fan of Cutler then any person on this board.


There was a point in time (before this season obviously when hating Cutler was not only accepted but pretty much encouraged) where I couldn't find anybody to agree that they thought Cutler was good.


Everything that ever came out of anybody's mouth was how he was this or he was that......____ (insert negative coment here)


I have stuck up and defended him since he got traded.


He may not be the media's dream but who cares, I don't.


The guy is a pretty damn good QB and he's only going to get better.


The NFC better hope the Bears don't actually get a few real offensive weapons to put around him........

I can second this. I've been a fan of Cutler the person (based on how he actually carries himself, not how ESPN and the Denver Post portrays him as being) but wasn't sure if as a QB he could have the same level of success without Shanahan. I was also not sure that a scheme-focused guy like Mike Martz was the best OC for Cutler. However, Cutler has proven why many scouts considered him the most scheme-versatile QB in years coming out of the draft. He seems to have figured out a very complex scheme in less than a year and will only get better as he gets more time in the scheme.

As you said, if the Bears can get him some weapons and more importantly as the rest of the offense learns that scheme, they could be very dangerous. This year in many ways appears to be a launching point for them. Imagine the Jay Cutler of 2008 (which is who I think we'll see in 2011, albeit a more mature version) with a top-5 defense and a league-best special teams unit. I'm just glad the Bears are not in the AFC.

acpell671
01-18-2011, 10:06 PM
I can second this. I've been a fan of Cutler the person (based on how he actually carries himself, not how ESPN and the Denver Post portrays him as being) but wasn't sure if as a QB he could have the same level of success without Shanahan. I was also not sure that a scheme-focused guy like Mike Martz was the best OC for Cutler. However, Cutler has proven why many scouts considered him the most scheme-versatile QB in years coming out of the draft. He seems to have figured out a very complex scheme in less than a year and will only get better as he gets more time in the scheme.

As you said, if the Bears can get him some weapons and more importantly as the rest of the offense learns that scheme, they could be very dangerous. This year in many ways appears to be a launching point for them. Imagine the Jay Cutler of 2008 (which is who I think we'll see in 2011, albeit a more mature version) with a top-5 defense and a league-best special teams unit. I'm just glad the Bears are not in the AFC.

I third this. AC1 can testify that we've been on the same page when it came to Cutler. A lot of people took the damaging leaks here as canon all the while completely disregarding everything that Cutler did while he was here. I've always been a firm believer in earning your stripes and I thought Cutler did while everyone here turned on him during the whole smear campaign.

His comment regarding journalists writing anything they want to write anyway makes a whole lot of sense.

JaysusCutler
01-19-2011, 05:38 AM
He was losing weight from a serious medical condition that can have serious consequences. You don't understand that?

Obviously I understand that and it sucks for him.

I just never understand when people say he's brave for playing through it and not complaining. I can't imagine anyone complaining about what at the time seemed to just be weight loss. What would one say to complain about that?

acpell671
01-19-2011, 06:32 AM
Obviously I understand that and it sucks for him.

I just never understand when people say he's brave for playing through it and not complaining. I can't imagine anyone complaining about what at the time seemed to just be weight loss. What would one say to complain about that?

There's a lot more to undiagnosed diabetes than just weight loss.

LordTrychon
01-19-2011, 07:08 AM
Obviously I understand that and it sucks for him.

I just never understand when people say he's brave for playing through it and not complaining. I can't imagine anyone complaining about what at the time seemed to just be weight loss. What would one say to complain about that?

Because it's next to impossible for someone in his build to 'just lose' 30 lbs... especially in season. He also had some serious fatigue, etc that went with it.


I was also always on Jay's side on this, for the record... though I may have stayed out of the more heated debates, because either they needed to be modded and I can't take part and mod fairly... or because they were just upsetting me. lol.

saphire1
01-19-2011, 12:04 PM
Obviously I understand that and it sucks for him.

I just never understand when people say he's brave for playing through it and not complaining. I can't imagine anyone complaining about what at the time seemed to just be weight loss. What would one say to complain about that?

It wasn't just the weight loss, but the mass that he lost and how fast he lost them. Football season is a trying time for everybody, but you just don't lose weight like that when nothing else is really wrong.

Then he also talked about fatigue, how he felt like he shouldn't have been that tired after playing football. Or losing his appetite. Or just not seeing the field clearly like he used to.

I commend him for playing through diabetes. It's no joke and really serious complications could have happened to him anytime during that season. For me, it's not even about complaining, but moreso like he didn't tell anybody what he was feeling to the point of being asked to be taken out of or have more rest during games or practices. I think if there was even a morsel of complaint, or if someone else was perceptive enough to see that he wasn't feeling well, he would have known he had diabetes way earlier than after the season ended.

Broncoholic3233
01-19-2011, 12:12 PM
I loved Cutler when he was here, probably my favorite player. I had all 3 of his authentic jerseys, he signed one of them and also signed a football (at jay cutler live).

However, he really was a complete tool.

He is going to be a very good player, hell he was pretty damn good here, but he didn't have a defense like he's does in Chi and also was still making too many mistakes.

I don't hate him. However, I don't find myself going out of the way rooting for him either.

I hope he does well this week, but I like Rodgers a lot, so I hope Rodgers and the Packers do better.

Good luck though

Axemaster
01-19-2011, 12:35 PM
mad at him? I honestly would love to know. If it was that he forced himself out of Denver, well then you would half right on that. That was 50/50 on McD and Cutler. Cutler was immature during the time but McD seemed even worse IMO. Also that is like Colts fans being mad at Elway after he threaten to quit football and go play baseball without even playing a down for them,Cutler at least was here for 3 seasons.

If it is about what he said at training camp, I still don't understand. Bears fans come out in droves every training camp but that training camp was special because of the trade. Same number of fans showed up when Peppers was signed. Also Orton said that he learned more about offense in one season in Denver than he has his entire career with Chicago, should Bears fans call him a traitor and crybaby?

Maybe you guys are waiting on the second coming of Elway and Cutler attitude didn't reflect that? I honestly think fans expectations are way too high at times. Bears fans are still looking for the next Walter Payton and it's futile. There will never be another Payton or Elway.

I honestly just want to know.I can't bring myself to root against former players, I still root for Grossman lol even though he drove me nuts, like Cutler does now. I don't want this to come off as Bears fans>Bronco fans or anything like that, I just want to know why the hate?

I am personnally not mad at him, but I distinctly remember he alienated fans his first MONTH in Chicago too, not to mention the early incident with Urlacher, need I remind you of these? Or is it selective memory on you/Bears fans part???

There will NEVER be a second coming of Elway, why would you even say that?

I never root against Cutler, Greise, Plummer, or ANY player /QB that has played for the Broncos then moved on. What would be the point of that?:salute:

saphire1
01-19-2011, 03:05 PM
I am personnally not mad at him, but I distinctly remember he alienated fans his first MONTH in Chicago too,

alienated chicago fans, or denver fans? all i can remember was chicago loved him because they found out he was one of them - a bears fan growing up.

milehighireland
01-19-2011, 06:32 PM
Well for one thing, his fans flooding the boards with threads about him whenever he does anything good tends not to let fans forget about the .......

When theres tons of people going "oh well done jay, i hope you continue to succeed, to rub it in the face of the team you shafted again and again, because, well, i told you so", (somewhat ignoring that they support that very team) well anybody who doesn't worship at his altar gets pretty annoyed.

I mean, looking down the 1st page of the other teams forum alone, there are at least SIX threads about him, with many spanning several pages and counting

thatkidhunt
01-19-2011, 06:47 PM
Well for one thing, his fans flooding the boards with threads about him whenever he does anything good tends not to let fans forget about the .......

When theres tons of people going "oh well done jay, i hope you continue to succeed, to rub it in the face of the team you shafted again and again, because, well, i told you so", (somewhat ignoring that they support that very team) well anybody who doesn't worship at his altar gets pretty annoyed.

I mean, looking down the 1st page of the other teams forum alone, there are at least SIX threads about him, with many spanning several pages and counting

Some of us have been saying we believed in Cutler and his abilities all along and most importantly last year when it was the cool thing to do to BASH Jay at any chance one got.

There were just as many threads last year filled with people that had your view on the opposite end of the spectrum.

I was crucified for being a fan of his during the bad times, now that the tables have turned I am not allowed to post or talk about his success?? :confused:


I personally don't feel as if I am rubbing anything in anybody's face.

milehighireland
01-19-2011, 07:24 PM
Some of us have been saying we believed in Cutler and his abilities all along and most importantly last year when it was the cool thing to do to BASH Jay at any chance one got.

There were just as many threads last year filled with people that had your view on the opposite end of the spectrum.

I was crucified for being a fan of his during the bad times, now that the tables have turned I am not allowed to post or talk about his success?? :confused:


I personally don't feel as if I am rubbing anything in anybody's face.

I understand you have been rooting, but threads highlighting his success such as "cutler passing his bears to NFC north title, etc" often come across as "Told you so" and inflammatory, and are intended as such, it feels like a boot to the side when you're already on the ground, given how this season has went

Last year it was very much just laughing at karma after the way things went down... people werent happy, as seen by his decidedly negative reception at mile high in preseason and saw it as karma that things were going badly... and tbh i dont know if his reception will be much different when he's back again next season... dude is very divisive, you either think he took a crap on the team or that he was chased out of town by a coach...

I'm very much in the former, other players were treated far worse than an inquiring phone call being made and handled it way better (Hillis, who i'll always root for)

thatkidhunt
01-19-2011, 07:28 PM
I understand you have been rooting, but threads highlighting his success such as "cutler passing his bears to NFC north title, etc" often come across as "Told you so" and inflammatory, and are intended as such, it feels like a boot to the side when you're already on the ground, given how this season has went

Last year it was very much just laughing at karma after the way things went down... people werent happy, as seen by his decidedly negative reception at mile high in preseason and saw it as karma that things were going badly... and tbh i dont know if his reception will be much different when he's back again next season... dude is very divisive, you either think he took a crap on the team or that he was chased out of town by a coach...

I'm very much in the former, other players were treated far worse than an inquiring phone call being made and handled it way better (Hillis, who i'll always root for)

Fair enough, we just see things a little different on the topic.


I can only speak for myself when I say I don't feel my posts on Jay's success have been inflammatory.....

milehighireland
01-19-2011, 07:46 PM
Fair enough, we just see things a little different on the topic.


I can only speak for myself when I say I don't feel my posts on Jay's success have been inflammatory.....

Exactly, we'll agree to disagree lol

Nah, they haven't, its pretty genuine on your part i would say

dbfan2007
01-20-2011, 02:47 AM
On the show, Cutler was asked about the 20,000 fans who showed up at Bears training camp in Bourbonnais, Ill., during the weekend.

"In Denver, we didn't have this many fans at all," he said. "We weren't even able to accommodate that many fans [at practice]. That's Chicago Bears fans for you. They're proud of their Bears.

"It's a lot [different]. Denver's like a 6 and Chicago's like a 9," Cutler said during the interview. "It's quite a bit different. Just the fans and how passionate they are, that's probably the biggest difference."

Yea, you'll downplay the comment. I really don't care. But why should I ,as a Broncos fan, like Cutler after he says things like this? I really don't care why he did it. I used to support him before he said things like that. I used to wish him well. I used to think he was a fairly smart guy. But crap like that can simply go unsaid. If he likes the Bears fans then good for him. They are all a bunch of idiots anyway. Good luck, Bears fans, with the Int machine. Just count your blessing that you have such a good OC and Defense. Didn't you make it further than this with Rex Grossman? What does that tell you about how big of a part Cutler plays in Chicago.

milehighireland
01-20-2011, 03:48 AM
sure, if you take the team you support and yourself as part of that fanbase being insulted like that, thats fair enough.......

as i've read in another thread.. Jay Cutler doesn't like you. He hates you, just like he hated this team and fanbase and ran for the door the minute it was left open a crack

LordTrychon
01-20-2011, 06:33 AM
sure, if you take the team you support and yourself as part of that fanbase being insulted like that, thats fair enough.......

as i've read in another thread.. Jay Cutler doesn't like you. He hates you, just like he hated this team and fanbase and ran for the door the minute it was left open a crack

See, saying things like 'you like Jay? Well he hates you...' could easily be considered inflammatory. Many of the threads celebrating Jay's bad season last season felt the same way to the other side as the ones you're complaining about feel to you.

I doubt you were calling for people to be less inflammatory then. You don't like threads that upset you, and that's ok. *shrug*

Axemaster
01-20-2011, 06:43 AM
alienated chicago fans, or denver fans? all i can remember was chicago loved him because they found out he was one of them - a bears fan growing up.

Umm, both. Exactly HOW LONG have you been a BEARS FAN?? Or , better still, do you even watch the news? It was all over this board, the Net, and TV how he blew off kids wanting his autograph, not to mention the Brian Urlacher incident.

Listen I have NOTHING against the guy. But facts are facts. Or was all this just MADE UP by a disgruntled Bears or Bronco fan?:D

Axemaster
01-20-2011, 07:08 AM
Another thing. That game last year at home , against Green Bay, when they lost 14-21, that sent their record to 5-8 and he was BOOED by you fans that game, so it is all RELATIVE, if you win and throw more TDS then INTS like this year you are a hero, if your team loses like last year and you throw for like 25 INTs then you are a Goat, a loser a red zone turnover machine just like he was labled in Chicago last year, and Denver the year before.:salute:

saphire1
01-20-2011, 12:07 PM
as i've read in another thread.. Jay Cutler doesn't like you. He hates you, just like he hated this team and fanbase and ran for the door the minute it was left open a crack

and thats not inflammatory at all???

i get it, when you're praising jay it's inflammatory and insulting. but when youre laughing at him, putting him down, it's the truth, and it's the coolest thing to do.

milehighireland
01-20-2011, 12:16 PM
See, saying things like 'you like Jay? Well he hates you...' could easily be considered inflammatory. Many of the threads celebrating Jay's bad season last season felt the same way to the other side as the ones you're complaining about feel to you.

I doubt you were calling for people to be less inflammatory then. You don't like threads that upset you, and that's ok. *shrug*

Pretty much why i strongly dislike cutler and mcd at this point and time. They've created a large split in the fanbase, and neither side has moved on in general naturally, given how we've done. I'm as guilty of it as anybody else.

After all, supposing hypothetically, 10 years down the road, cutler wins the SB (and naturally i'm very aware he could well do it this year), but we've added a 3rd by then... would there be as much talk about it? I somewhat doubt it


and thats not inflammatory at all???

i get it, when you're praising jay it's inflammatory and insulting. but when youre laughing at him, putting him down, it's the truth, and it's the coolest thing to do.

but these are the facts. has anybody any real proof that he wanted to stay here, given his ignoring of phone calls, the meeting in the restaurant with shanny and elway, ignoring lynch's advice during a game?

And, why would he like us? he passed that remark about us being a 6 to a 9 in chicago = cheap shot

LordTrychon
01-20-2011, 12:29 PM
Pretty much why i strongly dislike cutler and mcd at this point and time. They've created a large split in the fanbase, and neither side has moved on in general naturally, given how we've done. I'm as guilty of it as anybody else.

After all, supposing hypothetically, 10 years down the road, cutler wins the SB (and naturally i'm very aware he could well do it this year), but we've added a 3rd by then... would there be as much talk about it? I somewhat doubt it



but these are the facts. has anybody any real proof that he wanted to stay here, given his ignoring of phone calls, the meeting in the restaurant with shanny and elway, ignoring lynch's advice during a game?

And, why would he like us? he passed that remark about us being a 6 to a 9 in chicago = cheap shot

Meh... there've always been splits in the fan base on things.

There was a group that disliked Plummer pretty strongly and got pretty heated, even in his best year... even going into the AFC Championship game.

Then they split even more after that game.

Then they split even more after Jay was drafted.

Every week got worse from then on.

Got really bad after Plummer got benched.

Was finally starting to get better when we fired Shanahan.

Then it got worse again.

I blame McDaniels and Cutler.

But I'm not going to hold it against Cutler that he said something to gain the love of his new fan base... especially when he was still probably hurting over the way he was treated here.

That does not mean he 'hates me' or any other fan... and yes, I think it's inflammatory to say so.

saphire1
01-20-2011, 12:46 PM
but these are the facts. has anybody any real proof that he wanted to stay here, given his ignoring of phone calls, the meeting in the restaurant with shanny and elway, ignoring lynch's advice during a game?

it has been documented that from cutler's mouth himself, he wanted to stay in denver, he wanted to be a bronco, he wanted a reassurance from mcd that even after the failed cassel trade, that it would never happen again. according to cutler, mcd antagonized him even more.

cutler also pointed out that he never received any phone calls or texts from bowlen. after the failed meeting with mcd, he said the only other communication he got was he was gonna be traded soon.

it's all out there printed. obviously thats cutler's side of the story, could be true, could be not. but he did speak out about wanting to be in denver.

so you cannot say that those are "facts" just because it came from mcd and bowlen's sides of the story. there are "facts" too that cutler wanted to be here and mcd didn't. it's really just up to the person whose side to take on. you cannot say these are the "facts" when the other side also has a version of his story. i guess it may have been different had cutler shut up the whole time. but i could also argue that there are "facts" out there that cutler wanted to stay.


And, why would he like us? he passed that remark about us being a 6 to a 9 in chicago = cheap shot

to each his own. to me that's not a cheap shot. he was just being honest. he made that comment when it comes to offseason camps. chicago really has a bigger fanbase that comes to their camp. thats all he mentioned. and i bet that offseason was extra special to the fans because they finally got what they think of as a franchise qb. i would think 20k crowd is pretty big for offseason camps. that probably overwhelmed him. i guess im not just sensitive to those things.

so what you perceive as a cheap shot does not automatically mean as a fact that "cutler hates you". its just your opinion of what he said. it would have been different if he outright said, "yeah, those fans in denver who called me a crybaby and took mcd's side instead of mine, when i see one of them im gonna punch them in the face. then we'll see who's the real crybaby" it was nothing that brutal to conclude and pass on as a fact that "cutler hates you." he may have liked other fanbases even when he was in denver. even if that was true, for me thats nothing too big for me to think that cutler hates me.

EDIT:

Lord Trychon said it better i guess:


But I'm not going to hold it against Cutler that he said something to gain the love of his new fan base... especially when he was still probably hurting over the way he was treated here.

That does not mean he 'hates me' or any other fan...

anyway, i do agree with some here that there will be probably be an eternal divide when it comes to cutler. maybe it will be resolved once and for all when someone writes a tell-all book of some sorts. :P

milehighireland
01-20-2011, 01:14 PM
I'll probably mellow to him over the years but it's still a bit raw right now... what happens when he comes back next year could say a lot too

Basically regarding the row with him and mcd, it takes two to tango.

We have a saying round here not to argue with an idiot or an innocent bystander might see it and not know which one is which... essentially the thing with mcdaniels and cutler, seeing as mcdaniels was certainly an idiot at any rate

Hadez
01-20-2011, 01:26 PM
Cutler was mad because McD talked about trading him. Cutler was mad because he backed Bates and McD did not gives a rats behind and sent Bates packing. McD said nothing to appease Cutler in the meeting. It became clear to me that even though Cutler wanted a trade the problem in his mind was McD.

If only Bowlen would have had the same foresight then we probably do not have the worst losing stretch in 40 years.

At that time it was not too late to get rid of a coach who was already showing allot of us he did not have what it took to be the HC the Broncos wanted him to be.

Cutler saw something he did not like in McD and at this point people should stop hating Cutler and ask themselves..."what did he see that I did not".


Cutler went to a team with much worse offensive talent and is one game away from the Super Bowl.

McD was fired before he could even finish his 2nd season for a long list of bad player moves and the way he handled Spygate II.

How anyone could still question Cutler in the McJayGate is beyond me.

It is sad in hindsight the 25 year old QB looks better then the 32 year old HC.

thatkidhunt
01-20-2011, 01:43 PM
Cutler was mad because McD talked about trading him. Cutler was mad because he backed Bates and McD did not gives a rats behind and sent Bates packing. McD said nothing to appease Cutler in the meeting. It became clear to me that even though Cutler wanted a trade the problem in his mind was McD.

If only Bowlen would have had the same foresight then we probably do not have the worst losing stretch in 40 years.

At that time it was not too late to get rid of a coach who was already showing allot of us he did not have what it took to be the HC the Broncos wanted him to be.

Cutler saw something he did not like in McD and at this point people should stop hating Cutler and ask themselves..."what did he see that I did not".




Cutler went to a team with much worse offensive talent and is one game away from the Super Bowl.

McD was fired before he could even finish his 2nd season for a long list of bad player moves and the way he handled Spygate II.

How anyone could still question Cutler in the McJayGate is beyond me.

It is sad in hindsight the 25 year old QB looks better then the 32 year old HC.

I agree man, CP's to come once I refresh.

Kno-Sean
01-20-2011, 02:28 PM
Is there a reason to like the guy?

What did he ever even do for us? Yeah he played well for us, but he never won anything.

We don't owe Jay Cutler anything. He doesn't owe us anything. He's not a Denver Bronco anymore so I will not hug him the way other people around here do.

I'm a fan of the Denver Broncos. He is a Chicago Bear, so why should I be a fan of his? Sure maybe I would be if he played 10 long years here and took us to the playoffs a few times but he didn't.

I don't like him because he didn't want to be a Denver Bronco. Anyone who doesn't want to be a Bronco isn't going to be one of my favorite players.

thatkidhunt
01-20-2011, 03:47 PM
Kno-Sean



Is there a reason to like the guy?

Yes, the reason is simple, he was drafted by us, played on our team, and we all cheered him on at one point.


What did he ever even do for us? Yeah he played well for us, but he never won anything.

A lot of QB's never won anything when they were on a certain team for a short while (In Jay's case 3 seasons)

Some QB's never won anything that played their entire career at the same place (Dan Marino comes to mind)


We don't owe Jay Cutler anything. He doesn't owe us anything. He's not a Denver Bronco anymore so I will not hug him the way other people around here do.

You don't have to.



I'm a fan of the Denver Broncos. He is a Chicago Bear, so why should I be a fan of his?


I too am a fan of the Denver Broncos, my skin is tattooed for life, I like no other teams at all in the least bit.

I am a fan of Jay though so I hope he does well, if he does well the Bears will probably win (due to the strength in the other facets of the game for Chicago) but that doesn't make me a Bears fan.




I don't like him because he didn't want to be a Denver Bronco. Anyone who doesn't want to be a Bronco isn't going to be one of my favorite players

This is not true, Cutler said multiple times that he wanted to stay a Bronco.


I am just a fan of the player.

From the second we drafted him I became a fan.

You won't find me on the Bears message boards flooding it with threads about how awesome I think Cutler is though, however.

AznBroncoFan
01-20-2011, 04:39 PM
Did anyone on espn, nfl network, etc really call out matt? Florio's rant was classic... if you heard it maybe you'd understand.

Kno-Sean
01-20-2011, 05:16 PM
Yes, the reason is simple, he was drafted by us, played on our team, and we all cheered him on at one point.



A lot of QB's never won anything when they were on a certain team for a short while (In Jay's case 3 seasons)

Some QB's never won anything that played their entire career at the same place (Dan Marino comes to mind)



You don't have to.





I too am a fan of the Denver Broncos, my skin is tattooed for life, I like no other teams at all in the least bit.

I am a fan of Jay though so I hope he does well, if he does well the Bears will probably win (due to the strength in the other facets of the game for Chicago) but that doesn't make me a Bears fan.





This is not true, Cutler said multiple times that he wanted to stay a Bronco.


I am just a fan of the player.

From the second we drafted him I became a fan.

You won't find me on the Bears message boards flooding it with threads about how awesome I think Cutler is though, however.

I don't know TKH I mean I know you are a big Cutler supporter but some of your points are wrong too.

He didn't even get this team over a .500 record. I'm sure Dan Marino did that plenty of times. I'm sure he won a few division titles. I bet he won a few play off games for the Dolphins. He played on that team for a lot longer than Jay played here.

He played here for 3 seasons and did nothing but cause heart break and disappointment.

I'll admit it too, I loved the guy when we brought him here. I have an authentic Jay Cutler jersey packed away somewhere. But the guy clearly did not want to be a Denver Bronco anymore, otherwise he'd still be here. If someone doesn't want to play for the team I cheer for, then why should I cheer for him?

The reason I'm so openly against the Bears winning is so we don't have to see thread after thread about people saying "our franchise QB is in the SB" and stuff like that. It's just stupid. I don't want to see him do good for that very reason. Yeah we got screwed in the trade, and the trade sucked. But it would ease the pain if he didn't do so well.

thatkidhunt
01-20-2011, 06:40 PM
I don't know TKH I mean I know you are a big Cutler supporter but some of your points are wrong too.

He didn't even get this team over a .500 record. I'm sure Dan Marino did that plenty of times. I'm sure he won a few division titles. I bet he won a few play off games for the Dolphins. He played on that team for a lot longer than Jay played here.

He played here for 3 seasons and did nothing but cause heart break and disappointment.

I'll admit it too, I loved the guy when we brought him here. I have an authentic Jay Cutler jersey packed away somewhere. But the guy clearly did not want to be a Denver Bronco anymore, otherwise he'd still be here. If someone doesn't want to play for the team I cheer for, then why should I cheer for him?

The reason I'm so openly against the Bears winning is so we don't have to see thread after thread about people saying "our franchise QB is in the SB" and stuff like that. It's just stupid. I don't want to see him do good for that very reason. Yeah we got screwed in the trade, and the trade sucked. But it would ease the pain if he didn't do so well.

I wasn't trying to discredit Marino in my comparison.

When I said do anything, I was referring to winning SB's, because in the end that is all that matters.

I believe he did want to be here, he at least said that, multiple times, links to those reports have been splattered all over the place.


It's like I said, I'm a Broncos fan, and only a Broncos fan. I liked watching Jay play when he was here. I still root for his success.


This board isn't the only place I took crap about being a fan of his, I still have everyday friends who always have given me crap since the trade who have all of a sudden had to put their foot in their mouth (pretty much since the Bears bye week)

Like I said, you don't have to root for him, I am not suggesting you do, I just don't want get crapped on for rooting for him because I got enough of that last year when it was the easy and popular thing to do (crap on Cutler)

dbfan2007
01-20-2011, 11:00 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=weyYG6BVy_g

dbfan2007
01-20-2011, 11:12 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIvp3uFYbvw <-lmao at this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXLq1Vy4llw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7_duxRMIh0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBrlE0t3Qyw
Haha. I can't stop watching these videos.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jg85N4_kbUs&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0f44k5QWgs&feature=related
Haha. This is the last one. I promise.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYlTpX9bNIs&feature=related

PrideisBears
01-21-2011, 08:58 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIvp3uFYbvw <-lmao at this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXLq1Vy4llw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7_duxRMIh0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBrlE0t3Qyw
Haha. I can't stop watching these videos.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jg85N4_kbUs&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0f44k5QWgs&feature=related
Haha. This is the last one. I promise.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYlTpX9bNIs&feature=related

Okay let me get this straight you hate Cutler because he throws INT and people with no life on youtube make cartoons and songs about him? Wow man....................I'll take you out of the discussion since there are more intelligent discussion in this thread

PrideisBears
01-21-2011, 09:06 AM
it has been documented that from cutler's mouth himself, he wanted to stay in denver, he wanted to be a bronco, he wanted a reassurance from mcd that even after the failed cassel trade, that it would never happen again. according to cutler, mcd antagonized him even more.

cutler also pointed out that he never received any phone calls or texts from bowlen. after the failed meeting with mcd, he said the only other communication he got was he was gonna be traded soon.

it's all out there printed. obviously thats cutler's side of the story, could be true, could be not. but he did speak out about wanting to be in denver.

so you cannot say that those are "facts" just because it came from mcd and bowlen's sides of the story. there are "facts" too that cutler wanted to be here and mcd didn't. it's really just up to the person whose side to take on. you cannot say these are the "facts" when the other side also has a version of his story. i guess it may have been different had cutler shut up the whole time. but i could also argue that there are "facts" out there that cutler wanted to stay.



to each his own. to me that's not a cheap shot. he was just being honest. he made that comment when it comes to offseason camps. chicago really has a bigger fanbase that comes to their camp. thats all he mentioned. and i bet that offseason was extra special to the fans because they finally got what they think of as a franchise qb. i would think 20k crowd is pretty big for offseason camps. that probably overwhelmed him. i guess im not just sensitive to those things.

so what you perceive as a cheap shot does not automatically mean as a fact that "cutler hates you". its just your opinion of what he said. it would have been different if he outright said, "yeah, those fans in denver who called me a crybaby and took mcd's side instead of mine, when i see one of them im gonna punch them in the face. then we'll see who's the real crybaby" it was nothing that brutal to conclude and pass on as a fact that "cutler hates you." he may have liked other fanbases even when he was in denver. even if that was true, for me thats nothing too big for me to think that cutler hates me.

EDIT:

Lord Trychon said it better i guess:



anyway, i do agree with some here that there will be probably be an eternal divide when it comes to cutler. maybe it will be resolved once and for all when someone writes a tell-all book of some sorts. :P

This^ I really don't see why people were upset about the whle training camp thing. Peppers said the same thing a Panther fans didn't take it too seriously. If 20k people are at an offseason workout that is pretty alarming. If Chicago fans think you're the answer to a problem they follow you like you are a god lol.

Da Swerski
01-21-2011, 10:22 PM
but these are the facts. has anybody any real proof that he wanted to stay here, given his ignoring of phone calls, the meeting in the restaurant with shanny and elway, ignoring lynch's advice during a game?
I'm sure you disliked Cutler well before Reilly's crappy article, which is all your comments are based on. Regardless if the Lynch thing happened or not. Here's what Lynch said in July 2009:

On Marshall:

"I don't like saying , but you've got to call a spade a spade, and I think it's a dangerous proposition," Lynch said. "I don't think you'll see the Broncos sign him to a long-term deal, because right now the behavior he's demonstrated off the field, I don't think you'd feel comfortable doing anything long term.

"As I said, on the field, he's very comparable to a guy like Terrell Owens. He's that good of a player. But being a professional in my mind ... takes doing it on the field and off the field. You can't have all choir boys. I believe in first and second chances, but when you're talking about 13 or 14 ... I think at a certain point you've got to say this guy's got some issues that he's got to work out before you can trust him."

On Cutler:

Lynch was more complimentary of his former teammate Jay Cutler, whom the Bears acquired in an offseason trade with the Broncos.

[B]"I like Jay, he's a friend of mine," Lynch said. "He had some growing up to do, probably still has some growing up to do. But in saying that, I think the Broncos erred in letting him go.

"This is a guy, in my mind, that's a once-in-every-15-year-type talent. He's got that kind of skill. I think he'll grow into the other things. I sometimes think during this whole ordeal, they tried to paint him as a bad guy, but he's not a bad guy at all. He's got some growing up to do, but hopefully he learned something from this whole ordeal and offseason."

Lynch said part of that maturation process for the 26-year-old Cutler is opening up.

"I think he's very reserved and to himself, and that's fine," Lynch said. "I think sometimes it's just the way -- I hate to put it on this -- but sometimes the new generation. They just don't understand things that you think everyone should understand. I think he wants to learn. I think he's reached out to people trying to learn, and I think he will because as I said, once you get to know him on a one-on-one basis, he's by no means a bad person or a bad teammate. He's just, as I mentioned, got some things to grow up in."

So while Lynch did say Cutler had growing up to do at the time, he also called him a friend. Something tells me you'll only take the parts you like out of anything.


And, why would he like us? he passed that remark about us being a 6 to a 9 in chicago = cheap shot
1. He was asked about it
2. He's trying to endear himself to a fan base. Should he say "Denver was better"
3. Part of the thing he was talking about was the sheer number of fans showing up. What do you expect in a major media market? There's more people living in Chicago. So there's likely more Bears fans. So lets say 45% of fans show up to training camp. 45% of Bears fans is more people than 45% of Broncos fans. There's a lot more newspapers and general media in Chicago as well. So something like a press conference at training camp he'll be surrounded by more reporters and cameras. I'm sure that has to over whelm you as a person.

LordTrychon
01-21-2011, 10:31 PM
Thanks for the Lynch quotes. I knew there had to be comments out there, but alas... I am lazy.

dbfan2007
01-22-2011, 01:17 AM
Okay let me get this straight you hate Cutler because he throws INT and people with no life on youtube make cartoons and songs about him? Wow man....................I'll take you out of the discussion since there are more intelligent discussion in this thread

Ha. Wow. I'm glad you looked so far into it. Why would I hate a player because they throw Ints or because someone made a video/song about them? That's completely stupid and you should read everything else before making a dumb/uninformed post.

I added the videos so other people could watch and make fun of Cutler with me. I'm sorry you got all butt hurt. Actually, you sound a lot like Jay Cutler. Is this him?:huh:

PrideisBears
01-22-2011, 02:46 AM
Ha. Wow. I'm glad you looked so far into it. Why would I hate a player because they throw Ints or because someone made a video/song about them? That's completely stupid and you should read everything else before making a dumb/uninformed post.

I added the videos so other people could watch and make fun of Cutler with me. I'm sorry you got all butt hurt. Actually, you sound a lot like Jay Cutler. Is this him?:huh:

Okay I get it! You get your thrills off of mocking Cutler with cartoons, INT videos and songs! Cool, sounds very mature and intelligent :paper: Sorry man I was completely off. Poor Jay he'll never sleep at night now

LarryDean
01-22-2011, 08:18 AM
No hate here ...

Me personally being drafted by the Broncos and looking to have the ability to one day be a great QB... He was my favorite or close to favorite player in the NFL .... During the trade rumors I didn't buy into the media hype and believed it was they ineptitude of McD and the FO to begin with and thought in a lot ways he was being villainized by mostly after the fact opinion and hear say

So after he was traded I had no reason not to like him he after all is still one my favorite players in the NFL ... I believe the single purpose of trading him was meant to be a golden opportunity to rebuild the roster and a HC that could guru any QB..

The problem with this is being able to win with what you got and adding to it ... Instead of focusing on rebuilding the defense and slowing changing the offense to fit a certain scheme...McD started to rebuild the offense and add trying to revamp the defense in a Shanahan like manner ...

Now none of this post is to rehash previous discussed topics and things that unless you were living under a rock should be more then aware of ... This post was directed at the simple question .... So what did Cutler do to keep Bronco fans

-Rod-
01-23-2011, 10:50 AM
http://www.denverpost.com/klis/ci_17170363?source=rss


In defense of Josh McDaniels, he never had a chance with Jay Cutler.
On Jan. 12, 2009, the day that McDaniels was officially announced as the Broncos' head coach, Cutler called the front office and demanded a trade, according to three NFL sources.



What Cutler didn't realize is that his close relationship with Bates was one reason Bowlen's search committee led to McDaniels. Bates coaches aggressively and his personality apparently rubs his superiors the wrong way. After he left Denver and coached with Pete Carroll at USC and with the Seattle Seahawks, Bates was just fired again. McDaniels, meanwhile, had every reason to doubt whether he could win with a quarterback who didn't want to play for the head coach. Cutler's defiance gave McDaniels the right to at least explore a deal for Matt Cassel when former boss Bill Belichick set him up with a trade offer.

OrangeCrushinMi
01-24-2011, 01:14 PM
The reason I hated him. is the Denver Broncos had the qb with the 3rd highest winning percentage in the NFL. And trust me, this is why I stopped believing in Shanny....Cutler becoming starting qb of the Broncos is so clear to when this organization became losers. So yeah this is why I hate him above all.... Jay never won here and just claimed to have some arm stronger than Elway. Bull crap on that. I don't hear of today's receivers whining about the Cutler Cross.

So most of my life (born in 1977) I have known the Broncos as perenial playoff contenders. And it went away, and I really think this is what I can pin point, thus place my hatred in.

He was handed the wheels of this fine car, and totally crashed it.

I would say my dislike of him as a Bronco is what made me blindly follow McDaniels because I was finally sold on the hire when he got rid of Jay.

CoryWinget81
01-24-2011, 01:20 PM
I hate Cutler because he's smug and arrogant without ever proving anything.


Also, because of his comments about the Broncos front office and the fanbase.

I wonder if he will still think the Bears fanbase is like a 9 over the next few weeks/months.

lolcopter
01-24-2011, 01:21 PM
he sucks but people think he's good

lolcopter
01-24-2011, 01:24 PM
anyone who hates Cutler for what he did and does not hate Elway for what he did are hypocrites

my ill feelings are towards the Bronco leadership for allowing it to get that far.

you mean one cried his way onto our team and one cried his way off our team... and that's the same? um, no.

cutler is a coward. bottom line. he didn't want to man up in denver, just like he didn't want to man up in chicago. he's emotionally fragile and an average QB to boot.

Spice 1
01-24-2011, 11:30 PM
I don't hate the guy. I hate his game. I hate his game, because of how good he can be (should be). For a minute there, I really thought he was going to be one of the greatest QB's we ever saw. He's proven that he can be that guy when he wants to. He has all the tools, but he refuses to take care of the football. For me, this has nothing to do with his personality. It has everything to do with the cold, hard realization that the Broncos made a terrible mistake drafting him. I can't blame them, because I was temporarily fooled.

The hope was that he would settle down, and stop gambling with the football. Then he got traded. I was mixed about the whole deal, because he was losing as many games as he was winning in Denver. On the other hand, I knew how good he could be. Then came all of this hype, and all of the ridicule from people who assumed that he was going to put Chicago over the top. It was like he suddenly became a guaranteed future Hall of Famer. He was some kind of savior that got his wish to play for his favorite team. After all of the crap we had to put up with, where is your savior now? They strapped the leashes on him, started running the football, and secured a first round buy. It was all a facade. When they needed him to go out and win a football game, he didn't get it done.

I hope this guy, against my will as a Bronco fan, eventually turns into that great quarterback, but I wouldn't hold my breath. I still watch his games, because I can't get over how good he could have been as a Bronco. I still watch, because it's good entertainment. All of the people, who told us we were nuts, get there hearts ripped out on national television. Then, they blame their "savior".

Joshecalpoly
12-18-2014, 04:26 AM
Pretty much why i strongly dislike cutler and mcd at this point and time. They've created a large split in the fanbase, and neither side has moved on in general naturally, given how we've done. I'm as guilty of it as anybody else.

After all, supposing hypothetically, 10 years down the road, cutler wins the SB (and naturally i'm very aware he could well do it this year), but we've added a 3rd by then... would there be as much talk about it? I somewhat doubt it



but these are the facts. has anybody any real proof that he wanted to stay here, given his ignoring of phone calls, the meeting in the restaurant with shanny and elway, ignoring lynch's advice during a game?

And, why would he like us? he passed that remark about us being a 6 to a 9 in chicago = cheap shot

Well that Cutler SB doesnt seem to be working out now does it

martz11
12-18-2014, 04:40 AM
Well at least his arm is still stronger than Elway's:coffee:

broncolee
12-18-2014, 07:34 AM
I didn't really care for Cutler forcing a trade. He shouldn't have gotten so pissy.

It's understandable that he was upset that the new coach considered trading him for Matt Cassel. That's not a reason to demand a trade though.

Can't really say I'm still mad at Cutler. Things worked out for the best eventually. If he hadn't been traded, we wouldn't have Manning right now.

I put more of the blame on Mike Shanahan than anyone. If he had drafted Haloti Ngata or Marshawn Lynch instead of Cutler, the whole mess wouldn't have happened and maybe the Broncos would have remained a playoff caliber team.

BroncoFanBoy
12-18-2014, 12:49 PM
I'm glad we don't have him either. We don't have to deal with that contract he has. We have someone who's a million times better making less.

DirtDiver
12-18-2014, 12:56 PM
I didn't really care for Cutler forcing a trade. He shouldn't have gotten so pissy.

It's understandable that he was upset that the new coach considered trading him for Matt Cassel. That's not a reason to demand a trade though.

Can't really say I'm still mad at Cutler. Things worked out for the best eventually. If he hadn't been traded, we wouldn't have Manning right now.

I put more of the blame on Mike Shanahan than anyone. If he had drafted Haloti Ngata or Marshawn Lynch instead of Cutler, the whole mess wouldn't have happened and maybe the Broncos would have remained a playoff caliber team.

We just might have won a Super Bowl with Plummer at QB and Lynch in the backfield.

dizzolve
12-18-2014, 01:14 PM
I didn't really care for Cutler forcing a trade. He shouldn't have gotten so pissy.

It's understandable that he was upset that the new coach considered trading him for Matt Cassel. That's not a reason to demand a trade though.

Can't really say I'm still mad at Cutler. Things worked out for the best eventually. If he hadn't been traded, we wouldn't have Manning right now.

I put more of the blame on Mike Shanahan than anyone. If he had drafted Haloti Ngata or Marshawn Lynch instead of Cutler, the whole mess wouldn't have happened and maybe the Broncos would have remained a playoff caliber team.

I think CHI has come to grips 11 months too late, that Cutler isn't going to take them forward - but only status quo or backwards. So how do they fix this problem? Maybe they tried to take a page out of JMD's notes. lol -hang with me for a couple paragraphs...

After THIS week's news[Benching] (as opposed to last week's Kromer news) it almost seems as if Chicago actually IS done with Cutler.

Cutler's emo departure from Denver was initiated by the HC/OC JMD's mere considering a trade as far as we know. So Chicago knows he's susceptible to an emo tantrum of proportions that could damage any kind of 'working it out'.

So, last year or maybe the year before CHI brings in the new HC and the new OC(this year?). Things look great for a time, then ..... regression. The OC leaks information to the media that really makes Cutler look like un-coachable. Not only that but Kromer OWNS up to it.

Consider this; Maybe the coaching staff and CHI brass tried to incite another Cutler tantrum in order to facilitate a situation where they could rid themselves of what they see as the problem. Cutler doesn't bite though. No tantrum - not much emotion at all. After all he gets to go home to his 100 million dollar bank account either way.

To me, benching Cutler is the basically the CHI Staff saying, Cutler IS one of the reasons we're fallen apart and doesn't appear to be a part of any solution they can draw up. So they bench him. ~wow~ I saw an article trying to claim they might be protecting him from injury .........<crickets>. Granted he took a lot of shots from a bad NO defense. But who's fault was it? According to lots of former pros - they pointed to Cutler.

Cutler isn't the only problem in CHI but it gonna be hard to fix all their problems when one of the biggest single problem is their biggest single contract. Their biggest single contract should be making up for deficiencies not failing to measure up to what expected of any average NFL QB.

dizzolve
12-18-2014, 01:41 PM
Trestman presser nfl.com

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-around-the-nfl/0ap3000000445531/Trestman-I-ve-changed-my-mind-I-think-we-need-a-spark

Joshecalpoly
12-18-2014, 05:37 PM
I think CHI has come to grips 11 months too late, that Cutler isn't going to take them forward - but only status quo or backwards. So how do they fix this problem? Maybe they tried to take a page out of JMD's notes. lol -hang with me for a couple paragraphs...

After THIS week's news[Benching] (as opposed to last week's Kromer news) it almost seems as if Chicago actually IS done with Cutler.

Cutler's emo departure from Denver was initiated by the HC/OC JMD's mere considering a trade as far as we know. So Chicago knows he's susceptible to an emo tantrum of proportions that could damage any kind of 'working it out'.

So, last year or maybe the year before CHI brings in the new HC and the new OC(this year?). Things look great for a time, then ..... regression. The OC leaks information to the media that really makes Cutler look like un-coachable. Not only that but Kromer OWNS up to it.

Consider this; Maybe the coaching staff and CHI brass tried to incite another Cutler tantrum in order to facilitate a situation where they could rid themselves of what they see as the problem. Cutler doesn't bite though. No tantrum - not much emotion at all. After all he gets to go home to his 100 million dollar bank account either way.

To me, benching Cutler is the basically the CHI Staff saying, Cutler IS one of the reasons we're fallen apart and doesn't appear to be a part of any solution they can draw up. So they bench him. ~wow~ I saw an article trying to claim they might be protecting him from injury .........<crickets>. Granted he took a lot of shots from a bad NO defense. But who's fault was it? According to lots of former pros - they pointed to Cutler.

Cutler isn't the only problem in CHI but it gonna be hard to fix all their problems when one of the biggest single problem is their biggest single contract. Their biggest single contract should be making up for deficiencies not failing to measure up to what expected of any average NFL QB.

They should of listened to Urlacher the first time or the 2nd time, before they fell in love. I think the writing was on the wall for all bears fans to see when his only friend on the team BM went off on him for playing like an idiot.

CanDB
12-18-2014, 06:35 PM
I have been a Cutler critic for some time, although I was excited when we drafted him. I thought he had the makings of being a strong QB for us. For a while I saw some magic, but in time, he would baffle us, losing games that he should have won. He is a contradiction. He seems to thrive where he shouldn't, but fail where he shouldn't as well. He's the kind of player that can come from behind, and throw darts in tiny spaces, when others would not be so daring. But live by the sword........

Also, within a year or so after we drafted him, I started reading about some off the field flaws, and I tried to dismiss them. But each year the list grew, as did his sometimes controversial on the field antics. And then there was that "look" on the sidelines, a look that does not give one the impression that the dude is in full, confident control.

And as for his comments about his arm strength vs Elway's, and so on, even the biggest fan had to scratch their head....wondering if maybe there was a misquote.

The real problem is that Jay has hardly progressed. Based on his rookie year, most of us could see a potential star on the rise. But he just basically levelled off. As of this moment, he has never ended a season with a rating above the 80s. And that, with some real weapons!

And his leadership, or lack thereof, is baffling at times. Whether it's him or the media or whoever, we don't go long stretches with him as a respected leader. Something always seems to change that conclusion.

As for The Bears.....last season should have made them really think hard about the future. McCown had a better year, almost leading them to the playoffs. Instead, McCown did not stay, and Jay did not get franchised. NO.....he won the lottery! How foolish of Chicago to pile so much money and expectation on someone with so many question marks!

I actually don't mind Jay "the man". I sometimes even feel sorry for him. He is so misunderstood.

As a QB, he is ordinary, even though he possesses a rocket for an arm. But his failure to learn and adapt and to lead far outweigh the strength of his arm. He is a huge risk, given the money that has been provided to him.

OrangeCrushem
12-18-2014, 10:16 PM
Jake Plummer was given a raw deal here. His record was 7 WINS 4 LOSSES, and Shanahan STILL yanked him for Jay. That wasn't Jay's fault, but the fact is that he took the reigns in a not so great way, IMHO. Funny how things come full circle, and I wouldn't be surprised if Jake Plummer has been in a better than normal mood this week. Furthermore, when Jay said he could outhrow John Elway when Elway was in his prime, that irked many Bronco fans even more.

The Broncos got a nice haul from the Jay Cutler debacle, and what really did they get from it? I guess they aren't stuck flushing millions down the toilet like the Bears are. They are past the point of no return with Jay. How can they keep him after this terrible series of events? I've seen some bad football, but MAN they are TERRIBLE.

Most of us knew what the Bears were getting with Jay. The guy could drive the team up and down the field here, but when it was time to seal the deal and win the game, he would seemingly on cue throw an interception that left you screaming at the TV. It was not a good few years of Broncos football, that's for sure. McDaniels was right about Cutler, and Cutler was right about McDaniels..and they're both gone, thankfully.

Sophia23
12-18-2014, 11:50 PM
^ Yes, Shannahan had a habit of benching QB's…. A lot of time he didn't make sense to me. I didn't understand his reasoning at the time when he benched Plummer for Cutler, anymore than I understood him benching McNabb with the Redskins. I guess that's part of why Shannahan is no longer a head coach in the NFL.

fallforward3y+
12-19-2014, 04:30 AM
Cutler has his flaws, but it seems many Bronco fans LOVE pointing them out more than they would with most other QBs, so it does seem like many of them have something against Cutler, I'm really not sure why.

Sure, he wanted out of Denver, it seems he felt he was being treated unfairly. Maybe he should have handled it better, maybe he wasn't being treated unfairly(though IMO I would say that's largely being based in opinion) maybe he was being a crybaby, I don't know but if people are still upset about it now I would say they are likely a far bigger crybaby than he is, just get over it already.

With him saying his arm is better than Elway's, there's a good chance it is, he has one of the best arms in the league. It's one dimension of his game, many times players have one dimension of their game that they do better than a great. In truth, it seems retired greats or elite players get romanticized a bit, perhaps making people think a player who isn't considered to be a legend or elite player can't do ONE thing better than them.

JeMarcus Russell probably had a better arm than most QBs in his day. It really isn't a big deal to me for someone to talk themselves up a bit, I like some honesty out of players(unless it seems like it's being used as an excuse to be a jerk), I wish more players were a bit more honest to tell you the truth.

dizzolve
12-19-2014, 09:47 AM
Cutler has his flaws, but it seems many Bronco fans LOVE pointing them out more than they would with most other QBs, ..... I'm really not sure why.



Because he was a Bronco?

Joshua2585
12-19-2014, 09:49 AM
Terrible attitude. Bad sport. I know a lot of people here hate McD, but I was a big fan of him cleaning up our lockroom and getting rid of the riff-raff, a-la Marshall and Cutler.

FL BRONCO
12-19-2014, 10:10 AM
Jake Plummer was given a raw deal here. His record was 7 WINS 4 LOSSES, and Shanahan STILL yanked him for Jay. That wasn't Jay's fault, but the fact is that he took the reigns in a not so great way, IMHO. Funny how things come full circle, and I wouldn't be surprised if Jake Plummer has been in a better than normal mood this week. Furthermore, when Jay said he could outhrow John Elway when Elway was in his prime, that irked many Bronco fans even more.

The Broncos got a nice haul from the Jay Cutler debacle, and what really did they get from it? I guess they aren't stuck flushing millions down the toilet like the Bears are. They are past the point of no return with Jay. How can they keep him after this terrible series of events? I've seen some bad football, but MAN they are TERRIBLE.

Most of us knew what the Bears were getting with Jay. The guy could drive the team up and down the field here, but when it was time to seal the deal and win the game, he would seemingly on cue throw an interception that left you screaming at the TV. It was not a good few years of Broncos football, that's for sure. McDaniels was right about Cutler, and Cutler was right about McDaniels..and they're both gone, thankfully.



Very true cps

samparnell
12-19-2014, 10:21 AM
Terrible attitude. Bad sport. I know a lot of people here hate McD, but I was a big fan of him cleaning up our lockroom and getting rid of the riff-raff, a-la Marshall and Cutler.

I'm sure he did it screaming at the top of his lungs in their faces just like he treated his assistant coaches on the sideline. :rolleyes:

Joshecalpoly
12-19-2014, 02:43 PM
Jake Plummer was given a raw deal here. His record was 7 WINS 4 LOSSES, and Shanahan STILL yanked him for Jay. That wasn't Jay's fault, but the fact is that he took the reigns in a not so great way, IMHO. Funny how things come full circle, and I wouldn't be surprised if Jake Plummer has been in a better than normal mood this week. Furthermore, when Jay said he could outhrow John Elway when Elway was in his prime, that irked many Bronco fans even more.

The Broncos got a nice haul from the Jay Cutler debacle, and what really did they get from it? I guess they aren't stuck flushing millions down the toilet like the Bears are. They are past the point of no return with Jay. How can they keep him after this terrible series of events? I've seen some bad football, but MAN they are TERRIBLE.

Most of us knew what the Bears were getting with Jay. The guy could drive the team up and down the field here, but when it was time to seal the deal and win the game, he would seemingly on cue throw an interception that left you screaming at the TV. It was not a good few years of Broncos football, that's for sure. McDaniels was right about Cutler, and Cutler was right about McDaniels..and they're both gone, thankfully.

Fans here were yelling for Cutler before he got on the field. They chanted his name nearly every game even when we were winning, Plummer couldnt get a break and it frustrated him and then he took it out on this game and a fan or 2. In the end we had more of an impact on that decision then the coach did. Mike wanted to develop Cutler and let him sit behind Plummer for a year or 2 but that wasnt going to fly here.

Cutler couldnt wait to get out the door he just needed an excuse, in fact he said that he wanted out the 2nd we let go his substandard QB coach.

fallforward3y+
12-19-2014, 08:13 PM
Because he was a Bronco?

Guys go to other teams a lot though, it really doesn't seem like it should make fans have a problem with the player. They may not have liked the way he left, they may think he's a crybaby...but if someone still can't get over it after 5 years it seems kind of like pot calling the kettle black to me, it didn't seem like anything worthy of still having an issue with him now. It really seems like people should be over it by now IMO, although I suppose it is just my opinion.

CanDB
12-19-2014, 10:32 PM
Cutler has his flaws, but it seems many Bronco fans LOVE pointing them out more than they would with most other QBs, so it does seem like many of them have something against Cutler, I'm really not sure why.

Sure, he wanted out of Denver, it seems he felt he was being treated unfairly. Maybe he should have handled it better, maybe he wasn't being treated unfairly(though IMO I would say that's largely being based in opinion) maybe he was being a crybaby, I don't know but if people are still upset about it now I would say they are likely a far bigger crybaby than he is, just get over it already.

With him saying his arm is better than Elway's, there's a good chance it is, he has one of the best arms in the league. It's one dimension of his game, many times players have one dimension of their game that they do better than a great. In truth, it seems retired greats or elite players get romanticized a bit, perhaps making people think a player who isn't considered to be a legend or elite player can't do ONE thing better than them.

JeMarcus Russell probably had a better arm than most QBs in his day. It really isn't a big deal to me for someone to talk themselves up a bit, I like some honesty out of players(unless it seems like it's being used as an excuse to be a jerk), I wish more players were a bit more honest to tell you the truth.

I don't think you should challenge what many, many people think, with the argument you have presented. I think it's abundantly clear why we had a problem with him........and so many others do too, including plenty of Bears' fans. As for the stronger arm "thing".......it spoke volumes about the man's inner thinking and personality:

- Lack of class, and respect for a legend.
- Speaking when you should just keep it shut tight.
- Presenting yourself as a bit of a jerk, no matter how accurate the statement might have been

I could go on. Truth is, Elway will always be a legend, and known for so many special things, even to include his non playing days......whereas Cutler will be remembered for his inability to lead, his perceived attitude, and his status as a "business mistake".

It really is interesting how the guy wears out everyone eventually, including Chicago fans who are openly stating that we were right all along.

But go ahead.....make your argument.

fallforward3y+
12-19-2014, 11:44 PM
I don't think you should challenge what many, many people think, with the argument you have presented. I think it's abundantly clear why we had a problem with him........and so many others do too, including plenty of Bears' fans. As for the stronger arm "thing".......it spoke volumes about the man's inner thinking and personality:

- Lack of class, and respect for a legend.
- Speaking when you should just keep it shut tight.
- Presenting yourself as a bit of a jerk, no matter how accurate the statement might have been

I could go on. Truth is, Elway will always be a legend, and known for so many special things, even to include his non playing days......whereas Cutler will be remembered for his inability to lead, his perceived attitude, and his status as a "business mistake".

It really is interesting how the guy wears out everyone eventually, including Chicago fans who are openly stating that we were right all along.

But go ahead.....make your argument.

A lot of people believing something doesn't make it true.

It doesn't seem like there was anything disrespectful to Elway in that statement, that makes it appear that people are too defensive about Elway(like they seem to be about many legends). Talking up yourself doesn't make you a jerk IMO, I've been around plenty of guys who seem to do it that I thought were nice guys. I don't buy that just saying you do something better than someone is disrespectful to them, heck him picking Elway probably means he thought highly of him...otherwise it may not have been meaningful enough to say.

And sure, Elway's career was much better than Jay's has been, and I very much doubt Jay will reach his status. However, I don't believe he ever said he was an equal caliber QB to Elway, so that really isn't relevant to this IMO.

It just doesn't seem like a big deal to me. I believe Percy Howard had never caught a pass in the NFL, then claimed he would be able to beat Mel Blount...then he did it. Cutler I believe had launched a ball 80 yards before he came to NFL training camp. It just seems like a bit of smack talk and/or talking yourself up....it seems a bit silly to be bothered much by it, especially 8 years later. I don't get why people mind it so much when guys talk themselves up a bit.

I don't see any evidence that his personality actually holds the Bears back. I've been critical of his play, and many criticisms of him are very valid IMO...however, for some reason people seem to highlight his struggles more than QBs with similar struggles. Good Jay plays pretty well, but bad Jay seems awful...he's an inconsistent QB IMO, and I think that is very worthy of criticism. However, people seem to criticize him unfairly also.

His attitude gets criticized for seeming to not care, but when he tries to fire up his LT he gets criticized for that too and I think, what do you want from him?

The worst was criticizing him for sitting in the NFCC game for the 2010 season. I believe I actually heard someone say 'if he can walk, he can play'....I mean come on, really? The guy was injured. I think you probably need to be able to do a bit more than walk to play. Granted, they also criticized LT for the same thing so it may be more of a 'play hurt' mind set applied to everyone, but it's another example of something Jay's been criticized for that IMO seemed pretty dumb.

Peerless
12-20-2014, 07:37 AM
I don't know why fans get into such a hoopla over the stronger arm comment Jay made.

Elway even acknowledged it...

Elway on Cutler’s arm vs. those of some NFL greats: “Joe Montana, Steve Young, Brett Favre—they all could get outside and make big plays. Cutler is either more athletic or has better arm strength than each of them. His arm is pretty special, might even be as good as mine when I was his age. Certainly, it’s better than mine was at the end.”

— Elway on comparisons between himself and Cutler: “Some people have asked how he compares to me. He’s closer to me physically than personalitywise. But even I struggled a bit with expectations and the Denver spotlight when I was his age. It can be overwhelming. Once he wins some big games, he’ll start to feel like he belongs. It didn’t happen for me until my fourth year, when we went to Cleveland and won “The Drive” game. It was a big boost for me to win the AFC championship game, especially on the road.”

— Elway on what’s next for Cutler: “Cutler just needs to keep growing. His teammates’ confidence in him and the coaches’ confidence in his abilities have grown by leaps and bounds this year. It’s obvious. Hey, everybody follows a winner. And he’s going to win a lot of NFL games.”



Heck, Rod Smith was quoted saying:

"I don't know why there's an argument about who throws harder," said Rod Smith, the only Broncos receiver who caught passes from both Elway and Cutler. "Quarterbacking is about precision. It's about accuracy. I played with Will Furrer. To me, he threw harder than both of them." Oh no, let's all stone Rod!! He's cocky, blah blah.

dizzolve
12-20-2014, 08:34 AM
Guys go to other teams a lot though, it really doesn't seem like it should make fans have a problem with the player. They may not have liked the way he left, they may think he's a crybaby...but if someone still can't get over it after 5 years it seems kind of like pot calling the kettle black to me, it didn't seem like anything worthy of still having an issue with him now. It really seems like people should be over it by now IMO, although I suppose it is just my opinion.

Can't speak for everyone but for me, it took time to 'get over'. I was in disbelief at Cutler-gate and didn't want to see him go. In the midst of what was to be a rebuilding process, it felt like things were continuing to fall apart. For me it was harder to see Marshall want out. I was a HUGE fan of Marshall. The guy was a mess back then but on the field he was 'The Beast' - he's one of the most physical receivers in the NFL. I'm really glad to see he's gotten it all figured out now.

Once Cutler was gone though it was easier to be an objective observer. And ever since, year after year it's the same old story. Each season proving that 'its all true'. He did have that one good season where he won 1 playoff game? Didn't he win 1 post season game? Then proceeded to crumble against Green Bay if memory serves

About a year after Elway took over, I was over Cutler. I actually wanted him to succeed. I pulled for him- but Cutler himself made it difficult - even the media was like, why is Cutler such a tool? They were talking about body language and lack of leadership and all the same things they still talk about and used to talk about. Cutler doesn't make it easy to just simply 'like him'. But even if he had a worse attitude but won, people could acquiesce

If Cutler was your QB, you'd understand the frustration.

CanDB
12-20-2014, 11:41 AM
A lot of people believing something doesn't make it true.

It doesn't seem like there was anything disrespectful to Elway in that statement, that makes it appear that people are too defensive about Elway(like they seem to be about many legends). Talking up yourself doesn't make you a jerk IMO, I've been around plenty of guys who seem to do it that I thought were nice guys. I don't buy that just saying you do something better than someone is disrespectful to them, heck him picking Elway probably means he thought highly of him...otherwise it may not have been meaningful enough to say.

And sure, Elway's career was much better than Jay's has been, and I very much doubt Jay will reach his status. However, I don't believe he ever said he was an equal caliber QB to Elway, so that really isn't relevant to this IMO.

It just doesn't seem like a big deal to me. I believe Percy Howard had never caught a pass in the NFL, then claimed he would be able to beat Mel Blount...then he did it. Cutler I believe had launched a ball 80 yards before he came to NFL training camp. It just seems like a bit of smack talk and/or talking yourself up....it seems a bit silly to be bothered much by it, especially 8 years later. I don't get why people mind it so much when guys talk themselves up a bit.

I don't see any evidence that his personality actually holds the Bears back. I've been critical of his play, and many criticisms of him are very valid IMO...however, for some reason people seem to highlight his struggles more than QBs with similar struggles. Good Jay plays pretty well, but bad Jay seems awful...he's an inconsistent QB IMO, and I think that is very worthy of criticism. However, people seem to criticize him unfairly also.

His attitude gets criticized for seeming to not care, but when he tries to fire up his LT he gets criticized for that too and I think, what do you want from him?

The worst was criticizing him for sitting in the NFCC game for the 2010 season. I believe I actually heard someone say 'if he can walk, he can play'....I mean come on, really? The guy was injured. I think you probably need to be able to do a bit more than walk to play. Granted, they also criticized LT for the same thing so it may be more of a 'play hurt' mind set applied to everyone, but it's another example of something Jay's been criticized for that IMO seemed pretty dumb.

By the way, I really don't know who you pull for. The Broncos? I don't even know, and for most members, I absolutely know who they support. You seem to be the devil's advocate, or some role like that. That's fine. I just wasn't sure. One thing that seems apparent....your posts are longer than mine, and mine are very long!

Anyway.....I think we are on distant ships. You won't get on board mine, and I will certainly not yours.....at least not on this voyage. The Cutler topic is pretty clear. Guy comes to town, has people's support. Says and does some questionable things, and leaves town, and not on a good note. New town is all excited! For a while he does ok, but people keep saying he doesn't have enough weapons or tools or whatever. Others see cracks in the armour. Mysteriously, new town pays him a fortune to make it happen, even though no tangible evidence to support it. Has all the weapons as well. New town suffers. More than because of him, but also because of him. His performance is mediocre. Soon, the same public outcry. Same results, different town.

One more thing......most experts concur, and it's not in his favour.

ELWAY421
12-20-2014, 12:14 PM
By the way, I really don't know who you pull for. The Broncos? I don't even know, and for most members, I absolutely know who they support. You seem to be the devil's advocate, or some role like that. That's fine. I just wasn't sure. One thing that seems apparent....your posts are longer than mine, and mine are very long!

Anyway.....I think we are on distant ships. You won't get on board mine, and I will certainly not yours.....at least not on this voyage. The Cutler topic is pretty clear. Guy comes to town, has people's support. Says and does some questionable things, and leaves town, and not on a good note. New town is all excited! For a while he does ok, but people keep saying he doesn't have enough weapons or tools or whatever. Others see cracks in the armour. Mysteriously, new town pays him a fortune to make it happen, even though no tangible evidence to support it. Has all the weapons as well. New town suffers. More than because of him, but also because of him. His performance is mediocre. Soon, the same public outcry. Same results, different town.

One more thing......most experts concur, and it's not in his favour.


What is mediocre? I mean some people come to the defense of someone like Brian Hoyer and talk him up pretending he doesn't have 11TD's & 12 INT's and turn right around and want to tear down someone like Cutler down. Why is that? Is Hoyer a better QB because of body language? Has Jay been great? No. His turnovers are atrocious but his overall numbers aren't that bad. They can't all be Manning or Rodgers.

Jay's numbers:

CMP% 66.1
Yards 3640
TD'd 28
INT's 18

Again the turnovers are high, no doubt, but the numbers aren't all bad.

Trestman needs to shoulder more of the blame than he is. I mean who is he? When did he become a Super Bowl winning coach? He came from the CFL and everyone wants to crown him a offensive guru. What like Mcdaniels was a offensive guru which didn't equal squat for him in Denver. Not to mention the Bear offensive line is horrid. Didn't Jay get sacked 8 times in one game here recently? Just my two cents...

CanDB
12-20-2014, 01:04 PM
What is mediocre? I mean some people come to the defense of someone like Brian Hoyer and talk him up pretending he doesn't have 11TD's & 12 INT's and turn right around and want to tear down someone like Cutler down. Why is that? Is Hoyer a better QB because of body language? Has Jay been great? No. His turnovers are atrocious but his overall numbers aren't that bad. They can't all be Manning or Rodgers.

Jay's numbers:

CMP% 66.1
Yards 3640
TD'd 28
INT's 18

Again the turnovers are high, no doubt, but the numbers aren't all bad.

Trestman needs to shoulder more of the blame than he is. I mean who is he? When did he become a Super Bowl winning coach? He came from the CFL and everyone wants to crown him a offensive guru. What like Mcdaniels was a offensive guru which didn't equal squat for him in Denver. Not to mention the Bear offensive line is horrid. Didn't Jay get sacked 8 times in one game here recently? Just my two cents...

I disagree on several points. Jay Cutler has never had a QB rating in the 90s, and even this year, with so many weapons, and so many short passes!!! He has the most turnovers, even with all the short passes, and I believe he has the worst stats for passes over 5 yards. And don't blame his Oline........AGAIN!!! They may not be great, but they aren't the worst by any stretch.

He is mediocre. He is ordinary. He makes the same mistakes he did as a Bronco. His technique is suspect. He throws long just because. But if he can't do well in Trestman's short pass game, where will he do well?

As for Trestman, don't knock what you don't understand. Sure he comes from my league, The CFL. Go ahead, minimize its value. But I really believe he can coach in The NFL......but not with Cutler, who forgets the plan once he hits the field. And it's not Trestman's fault that his D needs a remake. But he will pay the price for being stuck with a poor D and an un-inspirational QB. A QB who can't progress, even with different leaders, and people like Marshall, Jeffery, Bennett....and Forte, one of the most talented backs in football. Heck, I could make a go of it, handing the ball off and throwing short passes to Forte!!!!

Funny thing, this maligned Head Coach was pretty darn good in his first year, guiding the backup.

ELWAY421
12-20-2014, 02:44 PM
I disagree on several points. Jay Cutler has never had a QB rating in the 90s, and even this year, with so many weapons, and so many short passes!!! He has the most turnovers, even with all the short passes, and I believe he has the worst stats for passes over 5 yards. And don't blame his Oline........AGAIN!!! They may not be great, but they aren't the worst by any stretch.

He is mediocre. He is ordinary. He makes the same mistakes he did as a Bronco. His technique is suspect. He throws long just because. But if he can't do well in Trestman's short pass game, where will he do well?

As for Trestman, don't knock what you don't understand. Sure he comes from my league, The CFL. Go ahead, minimize its value. But I really believe he can coach in The NFL......but not with Cutler, who forgets the plan once he hits the field. And it's not Trestman's fault that his D needs a remake. But he will pay the price for being stuck with a poor D and an un-inspirational QB. A QB who can't progress, even with different leaders, and people like Marshall, Jeffery, Bennett....and Forte, one of the most talented backs in football. Heck, I could make a go of it, handing the ball off and throwing short passes to Forte!!!!

Funny thing, this maligned Head Coach was pretty darn good in his first year, guiding the backup.


Here's what I understand about the CFL.

1) It's for players who aren't good enough to play in the NFL.

2) It's for coaches who aren't good enough to coach in the NFL.

Trestman is proving to be a mediocre coach in the NFL. Winning a few games with a backup QB last year means nothing. What he's Bill Belichick now? Jeffrey hasn't proven he's a consistent proven WR & neither has Bennett at the TE position. One good year or even two doesn't make you stellar! Do over a period of time like Calvin Johnson or Gronk. So that leaves Marshall and Forte. Marshall has been hurt all year but Forte has played well. If the coach was that genius he would have ran the ball more, switched the offensive philosophy so to speak, kind of like we did. You don't want to hear about the porous Oline but giving up seven or eight sacks in a game is JV or CFL if you will.

Sometimes I wonder if your blind for Rodgers has something to do with your hate for Jay? But hey, its easy to kick a guy when he's down, right? Just don't be particular CAN, make sure you kick Rodgers if he falters in the playoffs again. Man, I don't know what it is, but you sure do bring up Jay a lot?

Oh well, we don't have to agree. You say Jay is mediocre, I say he's above average.

CanDB
12-20-2014, 06:04 PM
Here's what I understand about the CFL.

1) It's for players who aren't good enough to play in the NFL.

2) It's for coaches who aren't good enough to coach in the NFL.

Trestman is proving to be a mediocre coach in the NFL. Winning a few games with a backup QB last year means nothing. What he's Bill Belichick now? Jeffrey hasn't proven he's a consistent proven WR & neither has Bennett at the TE position. One good year or even two doesn't make you stellar! Do over a period of time like Calvin Johnson or Gronk. So that leaves Marshall and Forte. Marshall has been hurt all year but Forte has played well. If the coach was that genius he would have ran the ball more, switched the offensive philosophy so to speak, kind of like we did. You don't want to hear about the porous Oline but giving up seven or eight sacks in a game is JV or CFL if you will.

Sometimes I wonder if your blind for Rodgers has something to do with your hate for Jay? But hey, its easy to kick a guy when he's down, right? Just don't be particular CAN, make sure you kick Rodgers if he falters in the playoffs again. Man, I don't know what it is, but you sure do bring up Jay a lot?

Oh well, we don't have to agree. You say Jay is mediocre, I say he's above average.

First quote:

Not very classy. I'll leave it there. Never said it was a great league, but it's a good league, and players do make The NFL from there.....and Trestman is a pretty decent HC. And the sad thing is, you're feeling for Cutler, while Trestman will likely get fired, partly because of Cutler. That is quite confusing logic there!:confused:

Second quote:

Hmmm....interesting. Well it's nice to be recognized for your likes/dislikes. Albeit, I don't really pay attention much attention to who likes who around here. Then again, it's obvious sometimes, just by one response. And I don't "hate". I dislike for sure. Don't use that word on me again, please.

And yes I like Rodgers. Again, your description of my support for him is not a smart one, for more than one reason. Regardless, I know a lot of people who also like Rodgers, a lot! So? By the way, whether I like him or not, he's one of the best QBs in the game, and from what I gather, many experts think he's the best. Makes no difference what I think.

Further, who's kicking anyone down here. Apparently, based on your comment, I am always kicking him....even when he's up I guess. By the way, I'd sure like to be down, making that kind of guaranteed money!!!

Finally, if Rodgers falters, life goes on. He's been through a few things, he can handle it. So can I. My first priority is Manning and The Broncos. I just happen to be a fan of Rodgers and The Pack. Is that ok? I happen to love his story, the one whereby a good QB sits and sits and sits, waiting his turn. And then makes the most of it. It's a good story.

But thanks for knowing my taste. It's flattering, I think. And next time try not to criticize The CFL. That's just uncalled for, and tells me something about you.

Joshecalpoly
12-20-2014, 06:07 PM
Here's what I understand about the CFL.

1) It's for players who aren't good enough to play in the NFL.

2) It's for coaches who aren't good enough to coach in the NFL.

Trestman is proving to be a mediocre coach in the NFL. Winning a few games with a backup QB last year means nothing. What he's Bill Belichick now? Jeffrey hasn't proven he's a consistent proven WR & neither has Bennett at the TE position. One good year or even two doesn't make you stellar! Do over a period of time like Calvin Johnson or Gronk. So that leaves Marshall and Forte. Marshall has been hurt all year but Forte has played well. If the coach was that genius he would have ran the ball more, switched the offensive philosophy so to speak, kind of like we did. You don't want to hear about the porous Oline but giving up seven or eight sacks in a game is JV or CFL if you will.

Sometimes I wonder if your blind for Rodgers has something to do with your hate for Jay? But hey, its easy to kick a guy when he's down, right? Just don't be particular CAN, make sure you kick Rodgers if he falters in the playoffs again. Man, I don't know what it is, but you sure do bring up Jay a lot?

Oh well, we don't have to agree. You say Jay is mediocre, I say he's above average.
A good QB and a good coach cover up the warts on a team to a degree. Even an above average coach and an average QB can do wonders for a team if they work well enough together. However, when both coach and QB are not on the same page the entire team gets exposed more so then ever. Truth is Cutler has made a lot of coordinators and coaches look bad over the years because he wants to do things a certain way. Hes not easy to coach and its a very big problem that hurts the team.

When you dont go through your progressions like nearly everyone has accused him of doing over the years you make dumb mistakes. When you stare down receivers like nearly everyone has accused him of you force even good receivers to have to fight more coverage then they should be. Its becomes difficult when your QB sees double coverage and stares it down and tries to force it in a hole he thinks he can get it in rather then looking for a better target. Truth is the reason why it worked with an average or even below average QB is Cutler has some talent around him and the coach was smart enough to know how to get the best out of them when things were done the right way. The coach isnt a horrible coach but I wouldnt say hes good, he didnt have a lot to work with but he made them better then they were.

fallforward3y+
12-20-2014, 07:38 PM
By the way, I really don't know who you pull for. The Broncos? I don't even know, and for most members, I absolutely know who they support. You seem to be the devil's advocate, or some role like that. That's fine. I just wasn't sure. One thing that seems apparent....your posts are longer than mine, and mine are very long!

Anyway.....I think we are on distant ships. You won't get on board mine, and I will certainly not yours.....at least not on this voyage. The Cutler topic is pretty clear. Guy comes to town, has people's support. Says and does some questionable things, and leaves town, and not on a good note. New town is all excited! For a while he does ok, but people keep saying he doesn't have enough weapons or tools or whatever. Others see cracks in the armour. Mysteriously, new town pays him a fortune to make it happen, even though no tangible evidence to support it. Has all the weapons as well. New town suffers. More than because of him, but also because of him. His performance is mediocre. Soon, the same public outcry. Same results, different town.

One more thing......most experts concur, and it's not in his favour.

I often have a lot to say, I guess...lol. You are right that we feel differently about certain things with Cutler, like what he said about his arm and etc. We have different views, and probably won't convince each other of the other's point. How to feel about it is pretty much all subjective IMO, so it's hard to make a convincing argument for either side.

As for my team, I'm a Niners fan. I usually have a couple of teams I also root for as well, I consider myself a fan of the game above any team though.

Cutler is worthy of criticism, but I just think sometimes he's a bit 'overhated' in a sense. He has flaws, and honestly I would not want him as my QB. However, at times people seem to act like he's one of the worst QBs in the league...a team could do worse. The thing about him is, he gives you a good chance to be a great passing attack on a given day...but he can also can play terrible on a given day, and turn the ball over a lot...they seem to have had several games where they would have won as long as he didn't turn it over.

The weapons argument for him not playing like an elite QB isn't a good one, I agree with that. When CHI signed him, believe it or not I actually thought people were over hyping how much better he'd make them, I thought that without the offensive weapons he had in Denver he wouldn't be able to put up the numbers he had in 2008.

His stats got better when more weapons came to CHI, however problems like him being turnover prone aren't likely the result of not having weapons, and don't seem to be in his case, because it hasn't gotten any better.

However, the defense argument for why he hasn't been on winning teams is a good one I think. His defenses have not been good, and we saw in 2010 that CHI could win games when he was the QB. And Cutler had one of his worst statistical years that year, which I think further supports the point. A lot goes into a team winning besides one player, even a QB so I don't think the wins argument is a good one.

I do think he's worthy of criticism, but he seems to be a favorite target, more so than other QBs with similar issues.

Joshecalpoly
12-20-2014, 08:10 PM
I often have a lot to say, I guess...lol. You are right that we feel differently about certain things with Cutler, like what he said about his arm and etc. We have different views, and probably won't convince each other of the other's point. How to feel about it is pretty much all subjective IMO, so it's hard to make a convincing argument for either side.

As for my team, I'm a Niners fan. I usually have a couple of teams I also root for as well, I consider myself a fan of the game above any team though.

Cutler is worthy of criticism, but I just think sometimes he's a bit 'overhated' in a sense. He has flaws, and honestly I would not want him as my QB. However, at times people seem to act like he's one of the worst QBs in the league...a team could do worse. The thing about him is, he gives you a good chance to be a great passing attack on a given day...but he can also can play terrible on a given day, and turn the ball over a lot...they seem to have had several games where they would have won as long as he didn't turn it over.

The weapons argument for him not playing like an elite QB isn't a good one, I agree with that. When CHI signed him, believe it or not I actually thought people were over hyping how much better he'd make them, I thought that without the offensive weapons he had in Denver he wouldn't be able to put up the numbers he had in 2008.

His stats got better when more weapons came to CHI, however problems like him being turnover prone aren't likely the result of not having weapons, and don't seem to be in his case, because it hasn't gotten any better.

However, the defense argument for why he hasn't been on winning teams is a good one I think. His defenses have not been good, and we saw in 2010 that CHI could win games when he was the QB. And Cutler had one of his worst statistical years that year, which I think further supports the point. A lot goes into a team winning besides one player, even a QB so I don't think the wins argument is a good one.

I do think he's worthy of criticism, but he seems to be a favorite target, more so than other QBs with similar issues.

People make excuses for his team all the time

Years 1-3, 9
Its his D

Years 5-8
Its his protection

Years 1, 4, 7
Its his receivers

Year 10
Its the coach

There comes a point where it is him, people complain that the Broncos spend to much money on Manning like the Colts and because of that the team around him suffers, well the Bears spend a lot more on Cutler so its not like its going to get much better. Manning did a lot last year and the D was said to be the worst D to make it to the SB. A good QB can prevent that from being a problem but in order to do that he needs to keep his D off the field by not making stupid mistakes.

CanDB
12-20-2014, 08:40 PM
I often have a lot to say, I guess...lol. You are right that we feel differently about certain things with Cutler, like what he said about his arm and etc. We have different views, and probably won't convince each other of the other's point. How to feel about it is pretty much all subjective IMO, so it's hard to make a convincing argument for either side.

As for my team, I'm a Niners fan. I usually have a couple of teams I also root for as well, I consider myself a fan of the game above any team though.

Cutler is worthy of criticism, but I just think sometimes he's a bit 'overhated' in a sense. He has flaws, and honestly I would not want him as my QB. However, at times people seem to act like he's one of the worst QBs in the league...a team could do worse. The thing about him is, he gives you a good chance to be a great passing attack on a given day...but he can also can play terrible on a given day, and turn the ball over a lot...they seem to have had several games where they would have won as long as he didn't turn it over.

The weapons argument for him not playing like an elite QB isn't a good one, I agree with that. When CHI signed him, believe it or not I actually thought people were over hyping how much better he'd make them, I thought that without the offensive weapons he had in Denver he wouldn't be able to put up the numbers he had in 2008.

His stats got better when more weapons came to CHI, however problems like him being turnover prone aren't likely the result of not having weapons, and don't seem to be in his case, because it hasn't gotten any better.

However, the defense argument for why he hasn't been on winning teams is a good one I think. His defenses have not been good, and we saw in 2010 that CHI could win games when he was the QB. And Cutler had one of his worst statistical years that year, which I think further supports the point. A lot goes into a team winning besides one player, even a QB so I don't think the wins argument is a good one.

I do think he's worthy of criticism, but he seems to be a favorite target, more so than other QBs with similar issues.

A 49er fan!! I didn't know that. Looks like they're putting The Chargers down for the season.

Listen, you sound like a bright dude, and I like that. And as for long posts, I am kind of glad that others write as much as I do!! Takes a little of the heat off me.

And yes, we will disagree on Jay. Believe it or not, at times I kind of like him. But not as a QB, and not as an ex Bronco. I don't have to elaborate on that. Been said many times.

As for my bolded point.....I do think that Chicago had a quality D in 2010, and from my perspective, that's why they made the playoffs and went so deep. If we look back, I believe that's when Peppers was like a super star, Urlacher and Briggs were playing extremely tough, while Peanut and company were picking off and pulling away, and scoring TDs in the process. So from my perspective, Jay had a D that year, and they won a playoff game before losing to GB.

And don't forget the impact that Hester had, changing game momentum with those electric returns!

Anyway.....maybe I'm too tough on Jay, but he sure is getting paid a ton of money, and still looking like the same QB that rode into Denver. And unfortunately some others are paying for his performance/other.

fallforward3y+
12-20-2014, 09:00 PM
I don't know why fans get into such a hoopla over the stronger arm comment Jay made.

Elway even acknowledged it...

Elway on Cutler’s arm vs. those of some NFL greats: “Joe Montana, Steve Young, Brett Favre—they all could get outside and make big plays. Cutler is either more athletic or has better arm strength than each of them. His arm is pretty special, might even be as good as mine when I was his age. Certainly, it’s better than mine was at the end.”

— Elway on comparisons between himself and Cutler: “Some people have asked how he compares to me. He’s closer to me physically than personalitywise. But even I struggled a bit with expectations and the Denver spotlight when I was his age. It can be overwhelming. Once he wins some big games, he’ll start to feel like he belongs. It didn’t happen for me until my fourth year, when we went to Cleveland and won “The Drive” game. It was a big boost for me to win the AFC championship game, especially on the road.”

— Elway on what’s next for Cutler: “Cutler just needs to keep growing. His teammates’ confidence in him and the coaches’ confidence in his abilities have grown by leaps and bounds this year. It’s obvious. Hey, everybody follows a winner. And he’s going to win a lot of NFL games.”



Heck, Rod Smith was quoted saying:

"I don't know why there's an argument about who throws harder," said Rod Smith, the only Broncos receiver who caught passes from both Elway and Cutler. "Quarterbacking is about precision. It's about accuracy. I played with Will Furrer. To me, he threw harder than both of them." Oh no, let's all stone Rod!! He's cocky, blah blah.

I think Rod Smith touched on a key point, in truth arm ranks very low on the list of what is most important for a QB in my eyes. Accuracy, reading defenses, avoiding turnovers, getting rid of the ball to avoid sacks, quick release(or buying time with mobility)and etc. A great arm does not mean a player will become a great QB, so it hardly seems like he was saying he was as good as John Elway.

For me, if a player wants to be a bit cocky I'm ok with it. It only becomes a problem for me if they start disrespecting people while doing it, or if it starts to negatively impact their play. The most common way it would effect their game IMO is if they don't respect the ability of other players, or don't acknowledge fundamentals and other things because they think they're too good to need to acknowledge them.

Many players have specific aspects of their game that they are among the best in it seems, if they want to brag a little be my guest.

If I remember correctly, I believe Mel Blount just laughed when Percy Howard claimed he would be able to beat him deep(I think that's what he claimed). In Percy's case, he actually did what he claimed he could do, but if he hadn't, to me it seems like something that should just be laughed off...probably ridicule them a bit but then for the most part let it go. Perhaps remember it, maybe bring it up again at times, but actually being bothered a lot by it IMO seems a bit silly.

fallforward3y+
12-20-2014, 09:22 PM
People make excuses for his team all the time

Years 1-3, 9
Its his D

Years 5-8
Its his protection

Years 1, 4, 7
Its his receivers

Year 10
Its the coach

There comes a point where it is him, people complain that the Broncos spend to much money on Manning like the Colts and because of that the team around him suffers, well the Bears spend a lot more on Cutler so its not like its going to get much better. Manning did a lot last year and the D was said to be the worst D to make it to the SB. A good QB can prevent that from being a problem but in order to do that he needs to keep his D off the field by not making stupid mistakes.

Well, there's a bit of a difference. Denver's D was mediocre, the Bears D is awful. If your D is as bad as Chicago's is, it's tough to go much of anywhere no matter how good your offense is. An example would be GB of 2008, they had a great offense...but their D was pretty bad and went 6-10. The Saints of 2007-2008 only managed 7-9 and 8-8 despite how good they were as a passing offense with Brees.

Look, Cutler is no elite QB..I won't argue that at all. However, even elite QBs won't likely win SBs without a good defense. Rodgers had a top defense when he won his, Brady also in 03-04, in 01 he had a top 10 scoring defense. P.Manning had a defense that played like a great one in the playoffs, a long with Brees when he won his.

Some teams have managed to get a first round bye without a very good defense, such as GB of 2011, but they at least had a 'bend but don't break one'..they gave up a lot of yards, but they were able to create turnovers..and they seemed to be the top 'clutch defense' where when teams attempted game winning drives they failed every single time. It was big in their playoff run too, stopping a GW drive attempt in 3 of their 4 playoff wins.

Defenses are likely to eventually make stops, and if you often need to score 30 points or more to win the game it's likely to catch up to you. It's nice to be able to win shoot outs, however if you often find yourself in them it's likely to catch up to you.

fallforward3y+
12-20-2014, 09:46 PM
A 49er fan!! I didn't know that. Looks like they're putting The Chargers down for the season.

Listen, you sound like a bright dude, and I like that. And as for long posts, I am kind of glad that others write as much as I do!! Takes a little of the heat off me.

And yes, we will disagree on Jay. Believe it or not, at times I kind of like him. But not as a QB, and not as an ex Bronco. I don't have to elaborate on that. Been said many times.

As for my bolded point.....I do think that Chicago had a quality D in 2010, and from my perspective, that's why they made the playoffs and went so deep. If we look back, I believe that's when Peppers was like a super star, Urlacher and Briggs were playing extremely tough, while Peanut and company were picking off and pulling away, and scoring TDs in the process. So from my perspective, Jay had a D that year, and they won a playoff game before losing to GB.

And don't forget the impact that Hester had, changing game momentum with those electric returns!

Anyway.....maybe I'm too tough on Jay, but he sure is getting paid a ton of money, and still looking like the same QB that rode into Denver. And unfortunately some others are paying for his performance/other.

Thanks...your alright too lol.

I agree, it was mostly the D that got CHI to the NFCC game that year, a long with the special teams. However, that I think further illustrates the point of more going into it than the QB. I think it was a bad year for Jay, he was nowhere near as good as Rodgers, but his team won their division, and was in the NFCC game with GB to near the end because their defense was able to keep them in games. There are instances of mediocre QBs being on winning teams, good QBs being on mediocre-bad teams and etc., more goes into a team winning than a QB.

I do believe Jay is overpaid, but it's hard to fault him for that for me. If he was holding out for a contract I would blame him, however if not then I would put that on management. IMO it is on them to realize when a player hasn't played to the level of their contract.

I think it's time for Jay to be done in CHI though, his play versus the Packers may be the biggest problem. He throws a lot of picks against them, and seems to be a big part of their struggle with GB. Struggling with GB has been a huge problem for them lately, and while Cutler may not be the only reason he is a big one, getting rid of him will probably help the problem. It's a bad idea to give up on a QB too quickly, but he's had a long time in CHI and doesn't seem to be getting better.

CanDB
12-20-2014, 10:36 PM
Thanks...your alright too lol.

I agree, it was mostly the D that got CHI to the NFCC game that year, a long with the special teams. However, that I think further illustrates the point of more going into it than the QB. I think it was a bad year for Jay, he was nowhere near as good as Rodgers, but his team won their division, and was in the NFCC game with GB to near the end because their defense was able to keep them in games. There are instances of mediocre QBs being on winning teams, good QBs being on mediocre-bad teams and etc., more goes into a team winning than a QB.

I do believe Jay is overpaid, but it's hard to fault him for that for me. If he was holding out for a contract I would blame him, however if not then I would put that on management. IMO it is on them to realize when a player hasn't played to the level of their contract.

I think it's time for Jay to be done in CHI though, his play versus the Packers may be the biggest problem. He throws a lot of picks against them, and seems to be a big part of their struggle with GB. Struggling with GB has been a huge problem for them lately, and while Cutler may not be the only reason he is a big one, getting rid of him will probably help the problem. It's a bad idea to give up on a QB too quickly, but he's had a long time in CHI and doesn't seem to be getting better.

See now, we hardly disagree at all. Then the question becomes, where would he go??? That would make for some interesting stuff. Is Tennessee the odds on to go after him? I think St. Lou would be a reasonable candidate. If they could improve a little, that team has a lot going for it. Mind you, based on how many teams are out of the picture, there has to be decent list of teams looking for a QB. And as I say, if he could play a wee bit better, he could help a team get better.

Joshecalpoly
12-20-2014, 11:18 PM
Well, there's a bit of a difference. Denver's D was mediocre, the Bears D is awful. If your D is as bad as Chicago's is, it's tough to go much of anywhere no matter how good your offense is. An example would be GB of 2008, they had a great offense...but their D was pretty bad and went 6-10. The Saints of 2007-2008 only managed 7-9 and 8-8 despite how good they were as a passing offense with Brees.

Look, Cutler is no elite QB..I won't argue that at all. However, even elite QBs won't likely win SBs without a good defense. Rodgers had a top defense when he won his, Brady also in 03-04, in 01 he had a top 10 scoring defense. P.Manning had a defense that played like a great one in the playoffs, a long with Brees when he won his.

Some teams have managed to get a first round bye without a very good defense, such as GB of 2011, but they at least had a 'bend but don't break one'..they gave up a lot of yards, but they were able to create turnovers..and they seemed to be the top 'clutch defense' where when teams attempted game winning drives they failed every single time. It was big in their playoff run too, stopping a GW drive attempt in 3 of their 4 playoff wins.

Defenses are likely to eventually make stops, and if you often need to score 30 points or more to win the game it's likely to catch up to you. It's nice to be able to win shoot outs, however if you often find yourself in them it's likely to catch up to you.
Though as I know Ive told you before, D's do have a hard time playing the more INT's you give up and Cutler does just that. If your D has a hard time getting off the field they dont do well. Truth be told your team isnt that much worse this year. You get to the QB 0.25% less without Peppers, and yes they pass more against you with that secondary being a bit more thing and do it a bit more consistently but your D was bad last year. Your D has been on the field longer this year then they were last year because their offensive counterpart averages more turnovers per game more incompletions per game, and they are allowing more sacks per attempt. It is for this reason the 3rd down percentage is worse and the offense cant stay on the field as easily as they did last year and the D is forced to play more.

Those warts are being exposed, because the QB and coach arent working well together and the QB isnt good enough to help his D out when he can. Also, when your averaging over a turnover a game your teams confidence is waning and are just waiting for that shoe to drop. You saw how well our team played with Tebow, that was because they had confidence in themselves that he wouldnt turn the ball over and that the D could keep them off the field. This team was horrible but we made it because well the West sucked but still a team can do wonders if the QB takes care of the ball and doesnt act like an idiot.

I know I went there and i like many others promised I never would, but lets be honest it doesnt take a good QB to win in the league or a good team, the Bears are in a good conference and they do need both a bit but right now theyve got neither. Though with what they have to pay Cutler they will always be

CanDB
12-21-2014, 09:31 AM
It appears that what this all comes down to is the money (the ole "follow the money" trail), and can The Bears afford to pay (lets just say) an average QB huge money including bonuses, when it is clear they need to spend in other places. And based on contract details, The Bears have some big decisions to make at key points, especially March 12th, when they owe Jay a sizable bonus. Similarly, if he plays another down this season and gets hurt, they are committed to paying him money that they can avoid, via a trade or cut?

So The Bears' management has to be sold on what direction they are going at QB, and that hinges around what they want to do with their D, etc. If they need a remake on D, can they afford Jay? And who then will they have or get to play QB? And can they even afford Jay without thinking about the holes, given his performance?

Soul searching times for The Bears' brass. Most of us probably have little sympathy, because we would have subscribed to the "franchise" tag in 2014. That would have cost a lot less, and still provided an opportunity to determine if he was the guy going forward. And yes, anyone who says that it's not Jay's fault for the big contract is absolutely correct! Hey, you take what they give you.

CanDB
12-21-2014, 12:43 PM
Maybe they should swap Cutler for McCown.;) Neither is having a good season. But I do have to say that in 2013, McCown had the better season:

QB Comp% TDS INT INT% Y/A Rate

Cutler 63.1 19 12 3.4 7.4 89.2

McCown 66.5 13 1 0.4 8.2 109.0

And not to want to extend the debate too much, but Trestman clearly had a positive influence on McCown.