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View Full Version : Holmgren just destroyed the falcons



blue diamond
04-28-2011, 05:39 PM
Just made an outstanding trade.

Guy is smart to move down, gets a 4th, next years 1st, great trade.

Atl must think they are one playmaker away...

lol

They need a pass rush!!!

Jay3
04-28-2011, 05:40 PM
Is Holmgren ever going to get around to making the Browns into a winner?

4th Amigo
04-28-2011, 05:41 PM
Well he certainly has the draft picks now to make them good......got a ton of picks, good trade brownies......

MoXplant
04-28-2011, 05:44 PM
Cleveland came outta that trade in hella good shape - great trade for Cleveland

terribleone
04-28-2011, 05:45 PM
Kinda Suprised they got that much damn!

MoXplant
04-28-2011, 05:48 PM
I agree - the drop to 27th in the first is kinda severe, but they pick up two picks from next years draft as well.... Dayum

blue diamond
04-28-2011, 05:49 PM
I think they are going to get a ton of value, and they are turning things around.

Big win last year vs the Patriots.

God I feel like a moron, forgot who their HC is...oh yeah, I remember now.

Could be a threat with all these picks. And if Colt McCoy is a winner and not a whiner like he seemed mic d up last year. Let him develop.

I like what holmgren got. I also have my doubts about the Falcons next year. Tough division, getting better in Tampa, who knows, I doubt they win the NFC outright again like last reg season.

Charlie Brown
04-28-2011, 06:09 PM
Mike Holmgren is the Browns team president - he is not the GM.

Yea, I know, it is hard to understand the difference between team president and General Manager for a lot of people. But, there is a distinct difference.

Also, no, Heckert did not "destroy the Falcons". The Falcons just destroyed whatever chance the Browns may have had at getting Colt McCoy an offense.

Now, Colt McCoy will only be the starting QB this year. Next year, the Browns will be looking for a QB and will ignore the need at wide reciever yet again.

So, here's to the 2013 NFL Draft, hopefully the Browns finally decide to address their glaring need at wide reciever by then. :beer:

MoXplant
04-28-2011, 06:12 PM
Charlie Brown you need some prozac man - how can you NOT be pleased with two firsts + two late rounds picks.

C'mon mahn :D

I'd be all kinda happy with that deal

Charlie Brown
04-28-2011, 06:15 PM
Charlie Brown you need some prozac man - how can you NOT be pleased with two firsts + two late rounds picks.

C'mon mahn :D

I'd be all kinda happy with that deal

The Browns get two firsts?

Maybe the Browns can select a the next Larry Fitzgerald with the .... 27th pick in the draft this year. Yea.... yea... (that is a pipe dream).

Oh, wait, maybe the Browns can pick the next Larry Fitzerald next year ... oh wait. The Browns won't have anybody to help Colt McCoy out this year... he will have to rise to the occasion with scrubs to throw to ..... yea .... I fully expect him to throw 20+ touchdowns and only 10 interceptions this year ... he can definately do that with MoMass who in his best season had two recieving touchdowns .... at starting wide reciever.

Yea ... not going to happen. So, the Browns will be in the market for a starting QB next year and a top flight reciever .... while holding a high draft pick and a late first round draft pick. Yea, not going to happen. Not going to be able to grab the next "great" QB and the next "great" WR with those types of selections.

Buck_N_Broncs
04-28-2011, 06:20 PM
Correct me if im wrong but i swear i saw the following..

Cleveland gets...

ATL 2011 - 1st, 2nd and 4th

ATL 2012 - 1st, and 4th

ATL gets....

sHAFTED....

Charlie Brown
04-28-2011, 06:23 PM
Correct me if im wrong but i swear i saw the following..

Cleveland gets...

ATL 2011 - 1st, 2nd and 4th

ATL 2012 - 1st, and 4th

ATL gets....

sHAFTED....

You mean Cleveland gets:

27th pick (this year), 56th pick (this year) and ... whatever that fourth round pick is. Also, they get a 1st round pick (27-32) in next year's draft, and a fourth round pick in next year's draft that may as well be a fifth rounder.

Buck_N_Broncs
04-28-2011, 06:27 PM
You mean Cleveland gets:

27th pick (this year), 56th pick (this year) and ... whatever that fourth round pick is. Also, they get a 1st round pick (27-32) in next year's draft, and a fourth round pick in next year's draft that may as well be a fifth rounder.

Yea. But im telling you, as a Browns fan you should be happy. Im in ohio and have like 90 Browns fans on my facebook. They are excited.

Charlie Brown
04-28-2011, 06:32 PM
Yea. But im telling you, as a Browns fan you should be happy. Im in ohio and have like 90 Browns fans on my facebook. They are excited.

Because they think Holmgren is some "genius" in the draft. Sure, Heckert made the picks. But, they believe that Holmgren is this all around great talent evaluator that will bring the Browns back to where they should be.

The best wide reciever that Holmgren drafted in Seattle was Koren Robinson. Koren Robinson?! No, that won't bring the Browns back to where they should be.

Southtown
04-28-2011, 06:35 PM
Holmgren has a proven track record as a great coach. As a talent evaluator, not so much. I do think it was a good value trade though.

Charlie Brown
04-28-2011, 06:38 PM
Holmgren has a proven track record as a great coach. As a talent evaluator, not so much. I do think it was a good value trade though.

See?

There you go.

They have this delusion that Holmgren is this "great talent evaluator" and that he will turn a lump of coal into a diamond - like Bill Bellichick.

He can't and he won't. If he can't ... then it falls to Shurmur to do it. Shurmur, the offensive coordinator from the Rams?!

Ha! Ha! Ha!!!

:sad:

RaiderFanSD
04-28-2011, 06:40 PM
Charlie, give it a rest man. Julio would have been a good pick, but the guy just drops so many balls. Could have been Braylon all over again.

I watched a lot of Alabama games this season, while Julio was a big time playmaker, he also dropped a good amount of easy passes.

Wait till ya see who you get first before you flip out..

Charlie Brown
04-28-2011, 06:42 PM
Charlie, give it a rest man. Julio would have been a good pick, but the guy just drops so many balls. Could have been Braylon all over again.

I watched a lot of Alabama games this season, while Julio was a big time playmaker, he also dropped a good amount of easy passes.

Wait till ya see who you get first before you flip out..

They just traded away the player they needed.

So, it doesn't matter who they select. It won't help the team. It'll be a pick for the sake of making a pick!

The only player worth anything is Stephen Paea. Because it is already too late to help Colt McCoy.

Buck_N_Broncs
04-28-2011, 06:42 PM
Charlie, give it a rest man. Julio would have been a good pick, but the guy just drops so many balls. Could have been Braylon all over again.

I watched a lot of Alabama games this season, while Julio was a big time playmaker, he also dropped a good amount of easy passes.

Wait till ya see who you get first before you flip out..

This. If AJ Green was there, and they did the draft, you could question it. I think the Browns use the pick to get a top tier DE. I think they can either address the WR need in the second round or FA.

Charlie Brown
04-28-2011, 06:44 PM
This. If AJ Green was there, and they did the draft, you could question it. I think the Browns use the pick to get a top tier DE. I think they can either address the WR need in the second round or FA.

Free Agency?

Who?

Terrell Owens? That's a joke.

Joshecalpoly
04-28-2011, 06:48 PM
Hey Charlie I told you that the Browns wont select Jones and would either trade the pick away or go defensive

Buck_N_Broncs
04-28-2011, 06:52 PM
Free Agency?

Who?

Terrell Owens? That's a joke.

Steve Smith, and who knows who will get cut, or move to FA. I dont knwo why youre so negative. I think it was an excellent move.

Charlie Brown
04-28-2011, 06:53 PM
Steve Smith, and who knows who will get cut, or move to FA. I dont knwo why youre so negative. I think it was an excellent move.

Steve Smith?

The 31 year old Steve Smith?

Why don't the Browns just see if Andre Reed wants to play football.

Buck_N_Broncs
04-28-2011, 07:06 PM
Steve Smith?

The 31 year old Steve Smith?

Why don't the Browns just see if Andre Reed wants to play football.

Well the Browns has a rich history of losing. So that might be possible.

Bernie24
04-28-2011, 07:10 PM
Ochocinco

Youd like that right? Lolz

Jay3
04-28-2011, 07:12 PM
Steve Smith?

The 31 year old Steve Smith?

Why don't the Browns just see if Andre Reed wants to play football.

The secret plan is to build a team of the Panthers cast offs.

Joshecalpoly
04-28-2011, 07:19 PM
I think Charlie owes me a CP because I was right I expected that D-line to be fixed and he argued all the way

IrishFan81
04-28-2011, 07:22 PM
Charlie you either need to pick a new team or just go away b/c you can't be happy with anything your Browns do. I live in Ohio and they are happy with the way the draft went and you are the only one who isn't...maybe you should look in the mirror and realize that you don't know as much as you think you do

Charlie Brown
04-28-2011, 07:33 PM
Charlie you either need to pick a new team or just go away b/c you can't be happy with anything your Browns do. I live in Ohio and they are happy with the way the draft went and you are the only one who isn't...maybe you should look in the mirror and realize that you don't know as much as you think you do

They may be really excited in Ohio to hear that the top pick of the Browns in this draft is Shaun Rogers 2.0 but I am not. The guy has bones in his feet that have fused together and he cannot control his weight. At times, he has ballooned to 380 pounds. Scouts all over the NFL have said that his feet are an issue and that through MRI's they have determined it cannot be corrected through surgery.

So, I ask you. Would you want the "success" of your team to lean on that player? Clearly the Browns front office think so. I am happy with a lot of things the Browns do. But not with what they have been doing lately. The Browns fired Eric Mangini and replaced him with Pat Shurmur the offensive coordinator of the Rams. The Rams! Then, they decided that they do not want to sign one of the best (if not the best) blocking fullbacks in the NFL because their new head coach wants a more "athletic" one. Further, there are reports that the new head coach wants to move the Browns starting RB to FB.

The team has a horrible passing game. So, they decide to let another team trade up and select the second best WR in the draft ... that way instead they can draft a defensive tackle who has the issue that I mentioned above.

Yet, here you are saying I should be happy about all this?

I hate to burst your bubble where you think I should be happy that the new management wants to get rid of some of the best players for the Browns. But, happy is the furthest from what Browns fans should be feeling right now.

On last thing,

How can I get excited when the team goes off and decides that their biggest move in the draft is that they are going to get more draft picks, next year. What are they going to do to improve the team for the 2011 season? How are they going to improve the team after getting rid fo Lawrence Vickers?

They aren't. This first round is so extremely underwhelming I tremble to think of what the front office could POSSIBLY do with their remaining draft selections.

ECBeastor
05-17-2011, 01:46 PM
They may be really excited in Ohio to hear that the top pick of the Browns in this draft is Shaun Rogers 2.0 but I am not. The guy has bones in his feet that have fused together and he cannot control his weight. At times, he has ballooned to 380 pounds. Scouts all over the NFL have said that his feet are an issue and that through MRI's they have determined it cannot be corrected through surgery.

So, I ask you. Would you want the "success" of your team to lean on that player? Clearly the Browns front office think so. I am happy with a lot of things the Browns do. But not with what they have been doing lately. The Browns fired Eric Mangini and replaced him with Pat Shurmur the offensive coordinator of the Rams. The Rams! Then, they decided that they do not want to sign one of the best (if not the best) blocking fullbacks in the NFL because their new head coach wants a more "athletic" one. Further, there are reports that the new head coach wants to move the Browns starting RB to FB.

The team has a horrible passing game. So, they decide to let another team trade up and select the second best WR in the draft ... that way instead they can draft a defensive tackle who has the issue that I mentioned above.

Yet, here you are saying I should be happy about all this?

I hate to burst your bubble where you think I should be happy that the new management wants to get rid of some of the best players for the Browns. But, happy is the furthest from what Browns fans should be feeling right now.

On last thing,

How can I get excited when the team goes off and decides that their biggest move in the draft is that they are going to get more draft picks, next year. What are they going to do to improve the team for the 2011 season? How are they going to improve the team after getting rid fo Lawrence Vickers?

They aren't. This first round is so extremely underwhelming I tremble to think of what the front office could POSSIBLY do with their remaining draft selections.

It's well documented that rumor about Taylor's feet being messed up is a fabrication.

Also, tell me exactly how many 1st round WRs did this year's super bowl participants have on their rosters?

Alastor
05-17-2011, 01:51 PM
Also, if there is no NFL this season (which seems likely at this point, not with the premier players at least), the Browns will essentially get bonus picks in what amounts to a second version of the same draft year, where the guys drafted by the picks they could have had are still rookies, but they get bonus rookies in the next draft.

If it works out that way, and it appears it's going to, the Browns look absolutely brilliant.


It's been a long time since I said anything like that about the Browns, and frankly, I didn't foresee it happening again this soon either, but if that's how it pans out...

"Brilliant!"

Kyousukeneko
05-17-2011, 04:24 PM
i love the greg little pick alot for the browns as no 1 WR, he would have been a top ten pick easily. i really do belive he is your number. plus look at other teams, marshall is a number 1 WR, and he was in the fourth round. steve johnson is a number one and he was a seventh. so you don't need to spend a top pick on a no 1 WR. and i think Little Will be a beast in your system, porbably come out as one of the steals of the draft.

Charlie Brown
05-17-2011, 09:43 PM
It's well documented that rumor about Taylor's feet being messed up is a fabrication.

Also, tell me exactly how many 1st round WRs did this year's super bowl participants have on their rosters?

Does it matter?

Those teams have success because they have established GM's and coaches running the team that know talent when they see them. The Browns GM is Heckert who is a nobody. Everybody knows that the brains in Philadelphia was Andy Reid. Further, if you are one of the people the believes that Mike Holmgren is pulling on the strings, then you should be aware that his record as a GM in Seattle was terrible.

Some teams can find talent in later rounds. Other teams can't. The Browns are not one of those lucky few teams that find talent anywhere and everywhere. The Browns have a rookie head coach and a has-been ex-coach as Team President.

ECBeastor
05-18-2011, 06:40 AM
Does it matter?

Those teams have success because they have established GM's and coaches running the team that know talent when they see them. The Browns GM is Heckert who is a nobody. Everybody knows that the brains in Philadelphia was Andy Reid. Further, if you are one of the people the believes that Mike Holmgren is pulling on the strings, then you should be aware that his record as a GM in Seattle was terrible.
Some teams can find talent in later rounds. Other teams can't. The Browns are not one of those lucky few teams that find talent anywhere and everywhere. The Browns have a rookie head coach and a has-been ex-coach as Team President.

I am aware of his record. He had a bad 1st draft. But drafted very well after that. He drafted 4 eventual Pro Bowl players in the next 2 drafts (2000 and 2001) alone and one included the eventual NFL MVP. Also drafted several long time nfl players in later roounds including multiple time 1000 yard receiver Darrell Jackson, Heath Evans, Ken Lucas, Rocky Benard, Maurice Morris, Floyd Womack, Isaiah Kacyvenski, and Dennis Norman. His defensive FA signings were poor and he had too much on his plate to address the defense properly. The defense was suffering and Team Pres - Whitsitt made him give up his GM role and fire several assistants, mostly on defense. But they made the super bowl for the most part on the backs of players he brought in as GM.

Charlie Brown
05-18-2011, 07:50 AM
I am aware of his record. He had a bad 1st draft. But drafted very well after that. He drafted 4 eventual Pro Bowl players in the next 2 drafts (2000 and 2001) alone and one included the eventual NFL MVP. Also drafted several long time nfl players in later roounds including multiple time 1000 yard receiver Darrell Jackson, Heath Evans, Ken Lucas, Rocky Benard, Maurice Morris, Floyd Womack, Isaiah Kacyvenski, and Dennis Norman. His defensive FA signings were poor and he had too much on his plate to address the defense properly. The defense was suffering and Team Pres - Whitsitt made him give up his GM role and fire several assistants, mostly on defense. But they made the super bowl for the most part on the backs of players he brought in as GM.

Also, you should mention what division his Seahawks played in. Was it the NFC North full of tough teams like the Packers and Bears? No, it was the NFC West. Full of such awesome teams as the Rams (who even when they were "good" were overrated), the 49ers (who haven't done anything since Mariucci was their coach) and the Cardinals (hello?!).

ECBeastor
05-18-2011, 08:47 AM
Also, you should mention what division his Seahawks played in. Was it the NFC North full of tough teams like the Packers and Bears? No, it was the NFC West. Full of such awesome teams as the Rams (who even when they were "good" were overrated), the 49ers (who haven't done anything since Mariucci was their coach) and the Cardinals (hello?!).

Poor effort. I guess the Rams going to 2 straight super bowls is overrated. And Mariucci was the coach in SF when Holmgren was GM/Coach of Seattle. Between 1999-2002 the NFC West was a premier division. SF and St. Louis were 10-14 win teams at least 2 years each in that span. Stick to what we are discussing and don't try and compare the 2010 NFC west to Holmgren's Seattle teams of 5-10 years prior

Charlie Brown
05-18-2011, 08:57 AM
Poor effort. I guess the Rams going to 2 straight super bowls is overrated. And Mariucci was the coach in SF when Holmgren was GM/Coach of Seattle. Between 1999-2002 the NFC West was a premier division. SF and St. Louis were 10-14 win teams at least 2 years each in that span. Stick to what we are discussing and don't try and compare the 2010 NFC west to Holmgren's Seattle teams of 5-10 years prior

You know what awesome QB the Rams used to have that liked letting the ball flop around on the turf (since it is a dome they play in)? Yea, I certainly do. The Rams were extremely overrated. The year prior to winning their Super Bowl they were the joke of the NFL. Then, after that trip they fell apart. Sure, they made it to another Super Bowl where they were exposed for the frauds that they were. They NEVER recovered. Within a year of their last Super Bowl Kurt Warner was considered a joke. He was fumbled and bumbling all over the place and was replaced.

By 2001-2002 the 49ers were already falling apart. Jeff Garcia was ending his tenure with the 49ers.

ECBeastor
05-18-2011, 09:10 AM
You know what awesome QB the Rams used to have that liked letting the ball flop around on the turf (since it is a dome they play in)? Yea, I certainly do. The Rams were extremely overrated. The year prior to winning their Super Bowl they were the joke of the NFL. Then, after that trip they fell apart. Sure, they made it to another Super Bowl where they were exposed for the frauds that they were. They NEVER recovered. Within a year of their last Super Bowl Kurt Warner was considered a joke. He was fumbled and bumbling all over the place and was replaced.

By 2001-2002 the 49ers were already falling apart. Jeff Garcia was ending his tenure with the 49ers.

Hmm...I recall the Rams making the playoffs in 2003 and 2004 with Bulger at QB. Maybe they weren't title contenders but that's hardly falling apart after their super bowls in 1999 and 2000.

And by the way, the NFC North was hardly competitive between 2000 and 2007. It was the Packers every year but maybe 2. The Bears were perpetually sub .500 with 1 fluke season in 2001 and the Vikings hovered around 8-8 every year from 2001 to 2007 with a couple decent years in 1999 and 2000. The Lions need no explanation.

Charlie Brown
05-18-2011, 09:24 AM
Hmm...I recall the Rams making the playoffs in 2003 and 2004 with Bulger at QB. Maybe they weren't title contenders but that's hardly falling apart after their super bowls in 1999 and 2000.

And by the way, the NFC North was hardly competitive between 2000 and 2007. It was the Packers every year but maybe 2. The Bears were perpetually sub .500 with 1 fluke season in 2001 and the Vikings hovered around 8-8 every year from 2001 to 2007 with a couple decent years in 1999 and 2000. The Lions need no explanation.

See?

Just goes to show that Holmgren isn't what he is made out to be. If the Packers were still able to find success without him then he is overrated.

The Seahawks faced weaker opponents in their division even when Holmgren was their coach. The 49ers as I said were good his first two years there, then they started to fall apart. Owens started to go after Garcia and by 2002 Mariucci was replaced by Erickson. We all know how that turned out. The Rams found limited success with Bulger at QB. Sure, they made the playoffs but they didn't do jack. The Cardinals always were a joke and the only time they were taken seriously was at the beginning of Plummer's career when they made the playoffs (was either his rookie year or second year).

ECBeastor
05-18-2011, 09:53 AM
See?

Just goes to show that Holmgren isn't what he is made out to be. If the Packers were still able to find success without him then he is overrated.

The Seahawks faced weaker opponents in their division even when Holmgren was their coach. The 49ers as I said were good his first two years there, then they started to fall apart. Owens started to go after Garcia and by 2002 Mariucci was replaced by Erickson. We all know how that turned out. The Rams found limited success with Bulger at QB. Sure, they made the playoffs but they didn't do jack. The Cardinals always were a joke and the only time they were taken seriously was at the beginning of Plummer's career when they made the playoffs (was either his rookie year or second year).

Can't argue with the fact that The Packers never got back to the Super Bowl after Holmgren left until this season. Holmgren (weak division or not) got to the Super Bowl many years sooner with the Seattle Seahawks. Weak division or not they still had to get through the Playoffs against all the alleged better teams from stronger divisions.