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powderblues
06-19-2011, 10:16 PM
First, can't believe there isn't a thread about this. If there is and I missed it, please delete. :)

So who do you think from your favorite team deserves to be in the top 100 players list?

Mine:

Philip Rivers
Antonio Gates
Vincent Jackson

CoryWinget81
06-19-2011, 10:20 PM
Brandon Lloyd
Champ Bailey

and

Tim Tebow :snicker:

jcdavey
06-19-2011, 10:25 PM
shaun phillips was listed at 97 via nfl

aside from him, i'd say gates rivers and vj


maybe dielman......

Bernie24
06-19-2011, 10:35 PM
Lloyd Bailey DJ Clady

RaiderFanSD
06-19-2011, 10:55 PM
Lloyd Bailey DJ Clady

Minus DJ yea

Amari24
06-19-2011, 11:15 PM
Champ, Lloyd, and Tebow. :)

powderblues
06-19-2011, 11:47 PM
shaun phillips was listed at 97 via nfl

aside from him, i'd say gates rivers and vj


maybe dielman......

Yeah I'd put Shaun Phillips in.

And these guys as honorable mentions:

Chris Dielman, Nick Hardwick, Marcus McNeil, Darren Sproles, Quentin Jammer, Eric Weddle

---

Lol @ Tebow :)

LordTrychon
06-20-2011, 05:25 AM
Was V Jackson in? I didn't see him, but I've been following on and off.

Hard to picture him being above Calvin Johnson, who was in at 25 last night, I think.

Broncos only had Bailey and Lloyd so far, but I thought I'd heard that the Broncos still had one to go. It's kinda hard imagining Clady or Dum in the top 20 though, especially with Dum's injury last year.

JayJack
06-20-2011, 05:31 AM
This is one show that I don't get. It suppose to be the top 100 from the 2010 season, but they show more highlights of players from previous seasons than they do for the 2010 season.

LordTrychon
06-20-2011, 05:41 AM
This is one show that I don't get. It suppose to be the top 100 from the 2010 season, but they show more highlights of players from previous seasons than they do for the 2010 season.

It's the top players for 2011. How players are projected to do this year based on previous years. I think the show just 'looks' a little better if they have several years' highlights to chose from.

Guys like Bailey, other shutdown corners, or lockdown Tackles have fewer highlights to choose from, and they have several minutes to fill.

JayJack
06-20-2011, 05:48 AM
It's the top players for 2011. How players are projected to do this year based on previous years. I think the show just 'looks' a little better if they have several years' highlights to chose from.

Guys like Bailey, other shutdown corners, or lockdown Tackles have fewer highlights to choose from, and they have several minutes to fill.

Thanx for the correction, 2011. That makes sense for the Bailey's and Ngata's of the world, but I didn't understand why they did the same for WR's, RB's, and LB's.

I think Lloyd and Champ should've been on that list, BUT, I think Champ was rated to high, IMO. And how in the world did McNabb make it on that list is beyond me. i haven't been watching it enough to have a good debate about it, but from i've seen, it's definately an interesting order.

powderblues
06-20-2011, 03:20 PM
Vick being rated higher than Rivers just proves how much of a joke and popularity contest these rankings are.

Just compare Rivers and Vicks stats and remember the weapons they had on their offense last season and you'll know who's the better QB.

The players did this voting, and for some reason they all love Vick and all hate Rivers.

So I wasn't surprised to see Rivers ranked outside of the top 25.

While a guy who's been in prison and didn't even play a complete season has one good stretch and is suddenly better than Rivers?

QB's shoulda been ranked as such

Brady 1st, Rodgers 2nd, Rivers 3rd, P. Manning 4th, Brees 5th, Roethlisburger 6th, Vick 7th, 8-10 can be in any order.

I'm glad Big Ben was ranked low, he is highly overrated. Do you know that the only two times the Steelers defense did not rank in the top 10 in points allowed, he failed to lead them into the playoffs?

Then I read comments like this from idiotic Steeler fans:

"ridiculous Philip Rivers better then Ben Roethlisberger? Ben has been to 3 Super Bowls and has won 2?What has rivers ever done?"

As if this is the NBA and its basically 5 vs 5 and whoever gets 2 superstars wins. The NFL is a team sport. Rivers has done more than his fair share. Only time will tell if he gets ring or not. But Big Ben has done a mediocre job while his defense saves his butt.

AllEyezOnZach27
06-21-2011, 07:57 PM
Vick being rated higher than Rivers just proves how much of a joke and popularity contest these rankings are.

Just compare Rivers and Vicks stats and remember the weapons they had on their offense last season and you'll know who's the better QB.

The players did this voting, and for some reason they all love Vick and all hate Rivers.

So I wasn't surprised to see Rivers ranked outside of the top 25.

While a guy who's been in prison and didn't even play a complete season has one good stretch and is suddenly better than Rivers?

QB's shoulda been ranked as such

Brady 1st, Rodgers 2nd, Rivers 3rd, P. Manning 4th, Brees 5th, Roethlisburger 6th, Vick 7th, 8-10 can be in any order.

I'm glad Big Ben was ranked low, he is highly overrated. Do you know that the only two times the Steelers defense did not rank in the top 10 in points allowed, he failed to lead them into the playoffs?

Then I read comments like this from idiotic Steeler fans:

"ridiculous Philip Rivers better then Ben Roethlisberger? Ben has been to 3 Super Bowls and has won 2?What has rivers ever done?"

As if this is the NBA and its basically 5 vs 5 and whoever gets 2 superstars wins. The NFL is a team sport. Rivers has done more than his fair share. Only time will tell if he gets ring or not. But Big Ben has done a mediocre job while his defense saves his butt.

You cant be serious!!!

There is no way Rivers is the 3rd best QB in the NFL! Manning & Brees below Rivers??? That is the most homer thing I have ever read!

Last time I checked Manning & Brees both took their teams to the Playoffs last year and also have been Super Bowl MVP's. All while Rivers lead his talent heavy Chargers to a .500 record in probably the 2nd worst division in football. Doesnt sound like a top 25 player to me!

Bernie24
06-21-2011, 08:19 PM
Vick>>>Rivers

baphamet
06-21-2011, 10:14 PM
You cant be serious!!!

There is no way Rivers is the 3rd best QB in the NFL! Manning & Brees below Rivers??? That is the most homer thing I have ever read!

Last time I checked Manning & Brees both took their teams to the Playoffs last year and also have been Super Bowl MVP's. All while Rivers lead his talent heavy Chargers to a .500 record in probably the 2nd worst division in football. Doesnt sound like a top 25 player to me!

yet the year before he took a team that had the worst running game and a very mediocre defense to 13 wins and a first round bye in the playoffs.

i Can think of one or maybe two other guys in the league who have proven they can do something like that.

baphamet
06-21-2011, 10:15 PM
Vick>>>Rivers

based on what exactly? your hatred? i think so. :coffee:

baphamet
06-21-2011, 10:19 PM
oh and by the way, AllEyezOnZach27. saying rivers is the third best QB in the league (which i disagree with) is nowhere near as homer as saying tebow should be on that list, which was mentioned more than once in this thread. :rolleyes:

jcdavey
06-21-2011, 10:32 PM
rivers is 5th at the least vick is not

end of discussion.....

johnlimburg
06-22-2011, 12:51 AM
Rivers is one of the best in the NFL no doubt. He should have led his team to the playoffs last year however I still think he is top 5.

Rodgers-Brady-Manning-Rivers/Brees

jcdavey
06-22-2011, 01:02 AM
Rivers is one of the best in the NFL no doubt. He should have led his team to the playoffs last year however I still think he is top 5.

Rodgers-Brady-Manning-Rivers/Brees

he would have if it wasn't for special teams being the worst in the history of the sport

johnlimburg
06-22-2011, 01:44 AM
he would have if it wasn't for special teams being the worst in the history of the sport

I don't care. With the number 1 offense and defense they should have made the playoffs.

jcdavey
06-22-2011, 02:03 AM
I don't care. With the number 1 offense and defense they should have made the playoffs.

yeah but if you did any type of research you'd realize the defense's numbers were not deserving of a true 1

the raiders and bengals game could have told you that

its like how fans here used to tout denvers cutler offense as being 2 in the nfl, but in reality it was a hollow claim when they were getting beat by oakland, in invesco 31-10.

anyway...the chargers special teams was documented as the worst in the history of the nfl......and pretty much everyone knows that`s why they lost some games early on in the season.

30+ to 0 blowouts over kc wouldnt save it when the D was giving up 4 passing tds to the likes of carson - just sold my house- palmer

johnlimburg
06-22-2011, 02:13 AM
yeah but if you did any type of research you'd realize the defense's numbers were not deserving of a true 1

the raiders and bengals game could have told you that

its like how fans here used to tout denvers cutler offense as being 2 in the nfl, but in reality it was a hollow claim when they were getting beat by oakland, in invesco 31-10.

anyway...the chargers special teams was documented as the worst in the history of the nfl......and pretty much everyone knows that`s why they lost some games early on in the season.

30+ to 0 blowouts over kc wouldnt save it when the D was giving up 4 passing tds to the likes of carson - just sold my house- palmer

Well I never said that about Cutler.

I know the San Diego specials teams was awful however with the defense even being top half of the NFL and with Phillip Rivers at QB you have to admit they still should have made the playoffs. Even with their Special Teams

jcdavey
06-22-2011, 02:28 AM
Well I never said that about Cutler.

I know the San Diego specials teams was awful however with the defense even being top half of the NFL and with Phillip Rivers at QB you have to admit they still should have made the playoffs. Even with their Special Teams

if you look at the games though you'd see we had games early in the season where the D and O did their job, had us in position to win, and the ST would completely crew it up

and then that late game in cincy ugh

also you tell me, you saw the final sd at denver game, did that look like a #1 D to you?

really....

had to be the most overrated D i've ever seen in my life

it's like a team who beat up on a few teams 2010, then got their asses handed to them in some other games

no real consistency

i believe they also went on a streak of 5 games without a forced Turnover

that's just sad.

johnlimburg
06-22-2011, 03:32 AM
if you look at the games though you'd see we had games early in the season where the D and O did their job, had us in position to win, and the ST would completely crew it up

and then that late game in cincy ugh

also you tell me, you saw the final sd at denver game, did that look like a #1 D to you?

really....

had to be the most overrated D i've ever seen in my life

it's like a team who beat up on a few teams 2010, then got their asses handed to them in some other games

no real consistency

i believe they also went on a streak of 5 games without a forced Turnover

that's just sad.

Well they were still a very good defense and I would have killed for that defense here.

AllEyezOnZach27
06-25-2011, 03:39 PM
oh and by the way, AllEyezOnZach27. saying rivers is the third best QB in the league (which i disagree with) is nowhere near as homer as saying tebow should be on that list, which was mentioned more than once in this thread. :rolleyes:

Anything thread that has the name Tebow in it should just be ignored! You of all people should know that its not really Broncos fans saying stuff like that. Its Tebow fans on a Broncos message board.

Its a little different.

Also how can anyone put Rivers ahead of 2 QB's that just won Super Bowls with less talent around them?

Honestly I really do like Rivers and think he is one hell of a QB but he hasnt earned the right to be called a top 3 QB in this league. He needs to get over the playoff hump and at least get to the big game (if not win the whole thing).

A few Tebow homers doesnt even come close because everyone else knows they cant be serious (or if they are, they dont know a thing about QB's)! Putting Rivers ahead of guys who have been better and won more is just crazy!!!

BluenOrnge4Life
06-25-2011, 03:46 PM
Vick being rated higher than Rivers just proves how much of a joke and popularity contest these rankings are.

Just compare Rivers and Vicks stats and remember the weapons they had on their offense last season and you'll know who's the better QB.

The players did this voting, and for some reason they all love Vick and all hate Rivers.

So I wasn't surprised to see Rivers ranked outside of the top 25.

While a guy who's been in prison and didn't even play a complete season has one good stretch and is suddenly better than Rivers?

QB's shoulda been ranked as such

Brady 1st, Rodgers 2nd, Rivers 3rd, P. Manning 4th, Brees 5th, Roethlisburger 6th, Vick 7th, 8-10 can be in any order.

I'm glad Big Ben was ranked low, he is highly overrated. Do you know that the only two times the Steelers defense did not rank in the top 10 in points allowed, he failed to lead them into the playoffs?

Then I read comments like this from idiotic Steeler fans:

"ridiculous Philip Rivers better then Ben Roethlisberger? Ben has been to 3 Super Bowls and has won 2?What has rivers ever done?"

As if this is the NBA and its basically 5 vs 5 and whoever gets 2 superstars wins. The NFL is a team sport. Rivers has done more than his fair share. Only time will tell if he gets ring or not. But Big Ben has done a mediocre job while his defense saves his butt.

Maybe because The MVP voting came down to Brady and Vick? Not Brady & Rivers. Take off your Dolt glasses for a second..

BluenOrnge4Life
06-25-2011, 03:48 PM
oh and by the way, AllEyezOnZach27. saying rivers is the third best QB in the league (which i disagree with) is nowhere near as homer as saying tebow should be on that list, which was mentioned more than once in this thread. :rolleyes:

It was a joke...

Bernie24
06-25-2011, 05:38 PM
based on what exactly? your hatred? i think so. :coffee:

No i just honestly think he's the better player

baphamet
06-26-2011, 05:07 PM
Maybe because The MVP voting came down to Brady and Vick? Not Brady & Rivers. Take off your Dolt glasses for a second..

no it didn't, Brady got every single vote for MVP. neither vick nor rivers got any votes

take your own advice and take off the hater glasses. :coffee:

AC1
06-27-2011, 08:00 AM
yet the year before he took a team that had the worst running game and a very mediocre defense to 13 wins and a first round bye in the playoffs.

i Can think of one or maybe two other guys in the league who have proven they can do something like that.

The guy choked away the window of arguably the most talent-loaded team of the last decade. Despite being in the same system throughout his career and having a terrific supporting cast around him, this guy has done zilch (and is a crappy person, to boot).

No QB in recent memory, outside of maybe Rodgers, has been given as many tools to succeed as Rivers.

baphamet
06-27-2011, 08:23 AM
The guy choked away the window of arguably the most talent-loaded team of the last decade. Despite being in the same system throughout his career and having a terrific supporting cast around him, this guy has done zilch (and is a crappy person, to boot).

No QB in recent memory, outside of maybe Rodgers, has been given as many tools to succeed as Rivers.

that is your biased point of view.

what window did he choke away? and you saying he is a crappy person is based on what?

you still butt hurt over cutler?

also, i Can name quite a few other QB's given as many if not more tools to succeed.

romo, Rodgers, Peyton manning, drew brees,

also, what has vick done to make him better? again, just your biased point of view. :coffee:

CoryWinget81
06-27-2011, 08:33 AM
Rivers 3rd?

Rivers has been the QB of the probably the most talent laden football teams from 06-10. HOF TE, HOF RB, great WR's, great line, talented opportunistic D.

What has he done with it?

Brady, Manning, Roethlisberger, Brees, Rodgers, Rivers/Romo

I actually would probably rate Romo and Rivers right next to each other.

AC1
06-27-2011, 09:24 AM
that is your biased point of view.

what window did he choke away? and you saying he is a crappy person is based on what?

you still butt hurt over cutler?

also, i Can name quite a few other QB's given as many if not more tools to succeed.

romo, Rodgers, Peyton manning, drew brees,

also, what has vick done to make him better? again, just your biased point of view. :coffee:

Really, my biased point of view? Is it my bias that your franchise's trophy cupboard is empty? Do you honestly believe that if you guys had Brees instead of Rivers, that would still be the case.

You guys had in Tomlinson, arguably the best player in the NFL for a period of time, along with Antonio Gates, arguably the best TE in the game over the last few years, at the same time, not to mention being loaded at other positions (Michael Turner, your one-time backup RB is one of the best backs in the game today). Your team had enough talent to allow Billy frikkin' Volek to engineer a game-winning drive against the Colts in the playoffs (a game that Rivers might have choked away if he didn't quit after an injury).

You really think Peyton Manning has "as many if not more tools to succeed"? Take away Manning from that team and they're maybe a 6 or 7 win team. Heck, put him on that team that Rivers inherited in 2006 and no other team wins a championship for the next few years.

Rodgers is indeed the closest to Rivers in terms of tools he had been given to succeed. His success at winning the Super Bowl is in sharp contrast to Rivers' inability to do so, despite being in his offensive scheme longer than Rodgers has been in his.

You would think that a fanbase starved for a championship would be annoyed at the guy holding them back from winning one with his crappy performance in the playoffs (seriously 8 TDs and 9 INTs?!) rather than be delighted with him. Then again, maybe you guys are content with division championships (even that window is closing). If so, Rivers is your guy.

LordTrychon
06-27-2011, 09:29 AM
that is your biased point of view.

what window did he choke away? and you saying he is a crappy person is based on what?

you still butt hurt over cutler?

also, i Can name quite a few other QB's given as many if not more tools to succeed.

romo, Rodgers, Peyton manning, drew brees,

also, what has vick done to make him better? again, just your biased point of view. :coffee:

Of those four QBs you mentioned, only one does not have a ring, and he's considered a bit of a choker.

Just FWIW.

I don't consider Rivers a choker myself.

BluenOrnge4Life
06-27-2011, 11:39 AM
no it didn't, Brady got every single vote for MVP. neither vick nor rivers got any votes

take your own advice and take off the hater glasses. :coffee:

And I suppose Rivers deserved the MVP after being on a 9-7 team that missed the playoffs? That's homerism at it's finest.


If the N.F.L. season were to end today, who would be the most valuable player? There are two clear choices: New England quarterback Tom Brady and Philadelphia’s Michael Vick.

By the thinnest margin of a hard hit along the sideline, my choice is Vick. But it’s close.

Brady is playing as well as ever, but Vick is rocking the league. He is must-see TV.

On Sunday, Brady led the Patriots to a come-from-behind victory over the pesky Green Bay Packers, 31-27. Vick turned in an electrifying performance against the Giants, engineering one of the greatest comebacks in recent memory — a 28-point rally with 8 minutes 17 seconds to play as the Eagles stunned the Giants, 38-31.

Three weeks ago, Vick was a lock for comeback player of the year. He has gone far beyond a mere comeback player. He is all the way back.

“I just go out and play my game week in and week out,” Vick said Monday during an interview on Sirius NFL radio. “I don’t want to sit here and say, ‘Yes I should be a M.V.P. candidate based on my play.’ I really don’t get caught up in the personal accolades. I think just to be mentioned in that category is enough for me.

“If I win it, I win it, if I don’t then I’m still thankful that my name was even brought up in the discussion with such a great quarterback as Tom Brady. I’m just thankful that I’m playing football and good football to a point where people are recognizing what I’m doing.”

The choice of an M.V.P. will be a minireferendum on style of play at football’s most important position: Brady is the familiar pocket passer, the most consistent we have ever seen. On the other hand, no quarterback in recent N.F.L. history has leveraged the double threat like Vick.

How do you properly judge an M.V.P. award in a team sport?

Take Brady and Vick away, and their teams become shells of themselves. But which team suffers more?

Who is more versatile? It would be infinitely easier for Vick to adjust and play more like Brady than it would for Brady to adjust and be more like Vick.

Brady has three championship rings, Vick has none.

What gives Vick the edge is the uneven application of rules when it comes to protecting the quarterback. The cloak of protection is wrapped much tighter around some quarterbacks than others.

Brady is protected by New England’s offensive scheme and, it seems, by officials who shield him from a steady diet of hard, follow-through hits as he releases the ball. Brady sits back and picks apart defenses like a missile flying hundreds of miles above its target.

Vick is on the ground, throwing, running, throwing on the run, taking several hard shots a game as a matter of course. Defensive players who even think about putting hits on Brady will be flagged — and financially flogged — by the N.F.L.

New England is 12-2 behind Brady; the Eagles are 10-4 behind Vick, who missed three games and part of a fourth with a rib injury. Some feel Vick’s absence due to injury should give the edge to Brady. That’s foolish. Vick was injured trying to make a play, rushing for a touchdown, doing something far outside of Brady’s job description.

If N.F.L. rules can protect less mobile quarterbacks, then those quarterbacks who run and get injured should not be ruled out of consideration for an award. In fact, the injury, and the way Vick has come back from it, should enhance his chances.

More than any time in recent history, this year’s selection will be complicated by moral and ethical issues surrounding Vick and the voters’ view of redemption, retribution, second chances — and even questions about whether he should be allowed to own a dog.

There are voters who no doubt resent the adulation being heaped on Vick and will refuse to vote for him. A number of Atlanta fans still remember the “old” Michael Vick, the star who made an obscene gesture to Falcons fans and whose involvement with dogfighting led to his departure from Atlanta and his subsequent incarceration.

The new Michael Vick — the Vick who takes football seriously, who spends his days off speaking to students about the perils of knuckleheadedness — is far more appealing.

His presence in the N.F.L. has been a lightning rod for debate around crucial issues, from animal rights to mentorship to the high incarceration rate of young African-Americans.

Tom Brady may be voted the league M.V.P., and who would protest?

Brady is certainly deserving, but for all the issues Vick has raised — intentionally or not — he is the M.I.P., the most invaluable player.

It very much came down to Brady & Michael Vick. Anyone who doesn't have a bias towards a member of their favorite team will tell you that.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/21/sports/football/21rhoden.html

baphamet
06-27-2011, 11:54 AM
Really, my biased point of view? Is it my bias that your franchise's trophy cupboard is empty? Do you honestly believe that if you guys had Brees instead of Rivers, that would still be the case.

we did have brees instead of rivers, with a healthy LT in his prime and gates. he couldn't win one playoff game.

again, yes you are clearly biased and trying to talk smack in a forum not meant for it.


You guys had in Tomlinson, arguably the best player in the NFL for a period of time, along with Antonio Gates, arguably the best TE in the game over the last few years, at the same time, not to mention being loaded at other positions (Michael Turner, your one-time backup RB is one of the best backs in the game today). Your team had enough talent to allow Billy frikkin' Volek to engineer a game-winning drive against the Colts in the playoffs (a game that Rivers might have choked away if he didn't quit after an injury).

brees had all of that when he was the QB in SD and couldn't get it done either. and again with the smack talk, its clear you absolutely hate the chargers and rivers, you are incredulity biased and this post should have been made in smack.

oh and when rivers left the game he had just scored the comeback TD. might have choked it away is different than choking it away, especially when you consider the backup "almost" did choke away when the lead that was given to him.

but, you would have to not be biased to see that i am afraid.


You really think Peyton Manning has "as many if not more tools to succeed"? Take away Manning from that team and they're maybe a 6 or 7 win team. Heck, put him on that team that Rivers inherited in 2006 and no other team wins a championship for the next few years.

why don't you mention Dallas Clark, Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Jeff Saturday, or Edgerrin James?

oh thats right, because it doesn't suit your biased argument.

do you realize that rivers carried a team that had the worst running game in football and a middle of the road defense to 13 wins and a first round bye in the playoffs?

yeah, i am sure the chargers would be just fine if you took rivers off that team. :rolleyes:

rivers is more valuable to SD than Ben is to Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh still wins when Ben isn't in there, its a fact.


Rodgers is indeed the closest to Rivers in terms of tools he had been given to succeed. His success at winning the Super Bowl is in sharp contrast to Rivers' inability to do so, despite being in his offensive scheme longer than Rodgers has been in his.

yet he has shown he can choke too, worse than rivers actually. the only other current QB that has choked as bad as Rodgers did to the cards is romo.


You would think that a fanbase starved for a championship would be annoyed at the guy holding them back from winning one with his crappy performance in the playoffs (seriously 8 TDs and 9 INTs?!) rather than be delighted with him. Then again, maybe you guys are content with division championships (even that window is closing). If so, Rivers is your guy.

if you honestly think it is rivers holding us back, not only are you biased (that much is quite obvious) but you are clueless to the subject.

i have seen countless broncos fans that would even disagree with your biased and ignorant (to there subject at least) point of view.

baphamet
06-27-2011, 12:04 PM
And I suppose Rivers deserved the MVP after being on a 9-7 team that missed the playoffs? That's homerism at it's finest.



It very much came down to Brady & Michael Vick. Anyone who doesn't have a bias towards a member of their favorite team will tell you that.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/21/sports/football/21rhoden.html

ROFL!! :laugh:

that is an opinion, there were articles written about rivers in the same manner.

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/thehuddle/post/2010/12/nfl-mvp-watch-tom-brady-philip-rivers-are-front-runners/1

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post/_/id/20571/philip-rivers-is-worthy-of-mvp-chants



let me say it again real slow for you.......brady.. got... every.....single......MVP... vote, neither vick or rivers got one vote, it is a fact that cannot be debated.

it was not a two person race when the second person didn't get one vote lol

it wasn't even a two person race as far as the irrelevant articles go either because like i said, the same articles were written about rivers too.

its all pointless, all that matters is who actually did get the votes.

baphamet
06-27-2011, 12:07 PM
Of those four QBs you mentioned, only one does not have a ring, and he's considered a bit of a choker.

Just FWIW.

I don't consider Rivers a choker myself.

i actually mentioned 5 lol

CanDB
06-27-2011, 12:07 PM
Too bad Jay still doesn't play here....... he would have easily given us one more top 100 player........


*checks list.........*






Never mind.......

LordTrychon
06-27-2011, 12:16 PM
i actually mentioned 5 lol

lol.... seven, if you include Cutler, Vick and Rivers.

But as for the 4 quarterbacks you claim have been in a similar situation to Rivers... 3 have won the superbowl and the other is considered a choker.

I just thought it wasn't your best argument. Some of your other arguments work better.

CoryWinget81
06-27-2011, 12:21 PM
Romo = Rivers

just sayin'.

baphamet
06-27-2011, 12:24 PM
lol.... seven, if you include Cutler, Vick and Rivers.

But as for the 4 quarterbacks you claim have been in a similar situation to Rivers... 3 have won the superbowl and the other is considered a choker.

I just thought it wasn't your best argument. Some of your other arguments work better.

not really the point i was trying to make.

those were just 4 off the top of my head. the point was to say that rivers is not the only QB that has all this talent around him.

i can elaborate on those other 4, especially manning who has lost more games in the playoffs than he has won.

he choked to a lot of teams that the colts were supposed to beat. he choked to the chargers alone more than rivers has choked to any team.

actually, i can argue that every top QB has choked in the playoffs regardless of talent around them.

but again, not really the point i was trying to make though.

BluenOrnge4Life
06-27-2011, 12:32 PM
ROFL!! :laugh:

that is an opinion, there were articles written about rivers in the same manner.

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/thehuddle/post/2010/12/nfl-mvp-watch-tom-brady-philip-rivers-are-front-runners/1

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post/_/id/20571/philip-rivers-is-worthy-of-mvp-chants



let me say it again real slow for you.......brady.. got... every.....single......MVP... vote, neither vick or rivers got one vote, it is a fact that cannot be debated.

it was not a two person race when the second person didn't get one vote lol

it wasn't even a two person race as far as the irrelevant articles go either because like i said, the same articles were written about rivers too.

its all pointless, all that matters is who actually did get the votes.

:laugh: what a joke. You Dolt fans are sooo delusional that you can't be taken seriously.

powderblues
06-27-2011, 03:43 PM
Rivers 3rd?

Rivers has been the QB of the probably the most talent laden football teams from 06-10. HOF TE, HOF RB, great WR's, great line, talented opportunistic D.

What has he done with it?

Brady, Manning, Roethlisberger, Brees, Rodgers, Rivers/Romo

I actually would probably rate Romo and Rivers right next to each other.

Sorry but you're completely wrong.

The only consistent player other than Rivers who you can call "great" on the offense is Antonio Gates. L.T. is a HOFer but he only had one great season while he and Rivers were together (2006). LT was a complete non factor in 2008 and 2009. He had a decent year in 2007, but he was banged up.

A great O-line you say? I'm a Charger fan, and I'm sure all Charger fans will agree with me here and say our O-line looks like paper most of the times. They're one of the smallest O-lines, (Nick Hardwick is the smallest Center) and they consistently get bullied by physical teams (Steelers, Ravens, Raiders).

And what "great" WR's are you talking about? The only player I can think of is Vincent Jackson, and he isn't even a top 5 WR.

Please, don't say "talented" and "opportunistic" when describing the Chargers defense which has been known to rank at the bottom of the league in forced turnovers in recent years. The only great talents we have had on defense in the last 5 years were Merriman and Cromartie. One of those guys became injury prone, and the other was a one hit wonder.

Ever since the Chargers got 10+ pro bowlers in 2006 everyone thinks Rivers has had the most talent around him. Its not true. The Chargers aren't even the most talented team in the AFC West.

CanDB
06-27-2011, 07:44 PM
Okay......just to change the subject, within the subject, the following players will be in the top 10 (I think!):

Tom Brady
Peyton Manning
Troy Polamalu
Julius Peppers
Andre Johnson
Ray Lewis (as old as he is!!)
Drew Brees
Ed Reed
Darrelle Revis
Adrian Peterson

Maybe in that order (1 to 10)......

Your thoughts?

powderblues
06-27-2011, 08:14 PM
Okay......just to change the subject, within the subject, the following players will be in the top 10 (I think!):

Tom Brady
Peyton Manning
Troy Polamalu
Julius Peppers
Andre Johnson
Ray Lewis (as old as he is!!)
Drew Brees
Ed Reed
Darrelle Revis
Adrian Peterson

Maybe in that order (1 to 10)......

Your thoughts?

Good list. My list:

1. Brady
2. Manning
3. Peterson
4. Polamalu
5. Brees
6. Johnson
7. Peppers
8. Revis
9. Lewis
10. Reed

CanDB
06-27-2011, 08:29 PM
Good list. My list:

1. Brady
2. Manning
3. Peterson
4. Polamalu
5. Brees
6. Johnson
7. Peppers
8. Revis
9. Lewis
10. Reed

should be interesting.....other than the top 10, which I'm pretty convinced I got right, the order is a little tricky. I am a little surprised how far Lewis went, given his age and all, but the players really respect him. Reed is in the same category. Respect!

I agree with the NFL.com analysts today.......Roethlisberger at 41 was too low. The guy has been to 3 SBs in his short career and nearly won all three!!! That is not a fluke, or purely the result of a strong D. He is the leader. He makes things happen, even if it isn't pretty. And his oline has sucked for a couple of years....then again, Polamalu and friends aren't too shabby.

(good that you created this thread.......seems like everyone else missed it!)

powderblues
06-27-2011, 08:40 PM
should be interesting.....other than the top 10, which I'm pretty convinced I got right, the order is a little tricky. I am a little surprised how far Lewis went, given his age and all, but the players really respect him. Reed is in the same category. Respect!

I agree with the NFL.com analysts today.......Roethlisberger at 41 was too low. The guy has been to 3 SBs in his short career and nearly won all three!!! That is not a fluke, or purely the result of a strong D. He is the leader. He makes things happen, even if it isn't pretty. And his oline has sucked for a couple of years....then again, Polamalu and friends aren't too shabby.

(good that you created this thread.......seems like everyone else missed it!)

Yeah since the players did this vote, its more based on respect. I was surprised Big Ben was 41 too. I think he should have been top 30. But definitely not top 20. Why? He is clutch at times, but to be honest. I'd rather have someone who is good MOST of the time, rather than get lucky SOME of the time. The bottom line is, he has had the #1 defense of the decade and been to three superbowls, 2 of which he played horribly in.

Put Manning, Brady, Rodgers, Rivers or Brees on the Steelers and I promise you they would have at least 4 rings.

baphamet
06-27-2011, 09:18 PM
:laugh: what a joke. You Dolt fans are sooo delusional that you can't be taken seriously.

i cant respond to you in the manner you just did b because i will no doubt receive an infraction for it.

save it for smack, unless you don't have the stones to show your face over there. :smug:

the joke is on you if you think you can argue facts. i posted the same type of links and pointed out the fact Vick didn't receive any MVP votes.

seriously, what part of that do you not understand???

just because someone wrote an article stating their opinion that it was a two person race, does not make it so.

the fact that nobody voted for rivers or Vick says it all, i am not being a homer by saying rivers or Vick were not in the race, i am just correcting some very biased and inaccurate things being spread around here on the subject.

am i being unfair by correcting you and pointing out the facts? am i being a homer by posting identical links about rivers, to the ones you posted about Vick?

do you not see how that diminishes the credibility of your argument? yet i cant be taken serous because i am a chargers fan?? :laugh:

johnlimburg
06-27-2011, 09:52 PM
Yeah since the players did this vote, its more based on respect. I was surprised Big Ben was 41 too. I think he should have been top 30. But definitely not top 20. Why? He is clutch at times, but to be honest. I'd rather have someone who is good MOST of the time, rather than get lucky SOME of the time. The bottom line is, he has had the #1 defense of the decade and been to three superbowls, 2 of which he played horribly in.

Put Manning, Brady, Rodgers, Rivers or Brees on the Steelers and I promise you they would have at least 4 rings.

Remove that name and yes. You cannot say that considering he has never won a superbowl. I think he is one of the best QB but he still had a very good defense last year and couldn't lead his team to the playoffs. I give him a pass but you cannot say that he would have 4 rings on the Stelers.

And although you will say special teams, the #1 rank of the defense was deceiving and what not. He should still have took his team to the playoffs.

powderblues
06-28-2011, 12:01 AM
Remove that name and yes. You cannot say that considering he has never won a superbowl. I think he is one of the best QB but he still had a very good defense last year and couldn't lead his team to the playoffs. I give him a pass but you cannot say that he would have 4 rings on the Stelers.

And although you will say special teams, the #1 rank of the defense was deceiving and what not. He should still have took his team to the playoffs.

Lol. Couldn't lead his team to the playoffs? Rivers did everything he could possibly do and more. The guy had one of the best seasons a QB can have.

Maybe you didn't watch watch happened last season, but do you realize the Chargers special teams was the worst of all time?

And the defense wasn't really #1. Anyone watching would know. They would consistently get short fields due to the special teams allowing big returns. Common sense is if you only have to defense 40 yards of field as opposed to 80 yards. You will have allowed the least amount of yards on defense.

The Chargers defense was really like a #15, not bad but definitely not great.

Rivers was not the reason the Chargers were 9-7. Special teams cost the bolts at least 4 games and you know it.

CoryWinget81
06-28-2011, 12:14 AM
Lol. Couldn't lead his team to the playoffs? Rivers did everything he could possibly do and more. The guy had one of the best seasons a QB can have.

Maybe you didn't watch watch happened last season, but do you realize the Chargers special teams was the worst of all time?

And the defense wasn't really #1. Anyone watching would know. They would consistently get short fields due to the special teams allowing big returns. Common sense is if you only have to defense 40 yards of field as opposed to 80 yards. You will have allowed the least amount of yards on defense.

The Chargers defense was really like a #15, not bad but definitely not great.

Rivers was not the reason the Chargers were 9-7. Special teams cost the bolts at least 4 games and you know it.

Excuses are like ass holes. Everyone has em and they all stink.

johnlimburg
06-28-2011, 01:15 AM
Lol. Couldn't lead his team to the playoffs? Rivers did everything he could possibly do and more. The guy had one of the best seasons a QB can have.

Obviously wasn't enough was it.


Maybe you didn't watch watch happened last season, but do you realize the Chargers special teams was the worst of all time?

Yeh and you do not get what I am saying. Sure they were bad but a top QB with a number ranked defense regardless of special teams should lead his team to the playoffs. I know, I know there are another thousand excuses but even if they are a top 15 Defense with Rivers they should go to the playoffs.


And the defense wasn't really #1. Anyone watching would know. They would consistently get short fields due to the special teams allowing big returns. Common sense is if you only have to defense 40 yards of field as opposed to 80 yards. You will have allowed the least amount of yards on defense.

There is the excuses I was waiting for. Would you say they are top 15. I would. They were still a very good defense. Maybe not great but they were very good.


The Chargers defense was really like a #15, not bad but definitely not great.

I have been saying top 15 this whole post but even at top 15 a top QB (Elite) should take his team to the playoffs.


Rivers was not the reason the Chargers were 9-7. Special teams cost the bolts at least 4 games and you know it.

Yeh it cost them I know that but Rivers still should have took them to the playoffs with their very good defense.

johnlimburg
06-28-2011, 01:19 AM
Excuses are like ass holes. Everyone has em and they all stink.

:laugh:

HAHA

#24 Next Champ
06-28-2011, 01:43 AM
Excuses are like ass holes. Everyone has em and they all stink.

Not my girlfriends'....well at least when she gets out the shower! lmaooo

on a serious note...I think Rivers is just about as good as you can get at QB...right in there with Brady, Brees, Manning, and Rodgers

howeverrrr....one thing I do wonder about is would he be as successful without all the huge targets...I mean, he is EXCELLENT at what he does, but one thing I've always noticed about Rivers, he puts the ball high where only those guys can get it, soooo...I'm just curious if he had some smaller guys, would he be able to be as good??? I would think so, but ya never know....

I mean, he throws to

6'4 Jackson
6'4 Gates
6'5 Malcom Floyd
6'3 Naane
6'2 Arijotutu or whatever the hell

those are some bigggg targets

powderblues
06-28-2011, 02:09 AM
Rivers played with about plenty WR's (not just jackson, floyd, etc) some tall, some short, same result, lots and lots of yards and lots of touchdowns.

He had success with some short WR's too in 2006 (Keenan McCardell and Eric Parker) Parker was like 5 foot 8.

A couple of you say Rivers should have taken them to the playoffs despite all the other issues. What's he supposed to do? Say hey get on my magic carpet lets go.

Its a team game, he put it his work, he can't play special teams or defense. Just wasn't the Chargers year.

That's like asking Elway why did you allow your team to get smacked down by the 49ers in the Superbowl?

:thumb:

johnlimburg
06-28-2011, 02:34 AM
A couple of you say Rivers should have taken them to the playoffs despite all the other issues. What's he supposed to do? Say hey get on my magic carpet lets go.

Its a team game, he put it his work, he can't play special teams or defense. Just wasn't the Chargers year.

Example 1: Peyton Manning. He does it every year all by himself. Worst team then the Chargers. If Rivers name gets thrown around his he had to lead that Chargers team to the playoffs.

jcdavey
06-28-2011, 02:44 AM
Example 1: Peyton Manning. He does it every year all by himself. Worst team then the Chargers. If Rivers name gets thrown around his he had to lead that Chargers team to the playoffs.

possibly the stupidest thing you've ever said

johnlimburg
06-28-2011, 03:05 AM
possibly the stupidest thing you've ever said

How is that stupid. Explain.

jcdavey
06-28-2011, 03:10 AM
How is that stupid. Explain.

i hate to have to channel the miz on you but


by himself?

really?

reallly?

really?






really??

johnlimburg
06-28-2011, 03:15 AM
i hate to have to channel the miz on you but


by himself?

really?

reallly?

really?






really??

:laugh:

So you are saying what I said is stupid because Manning doesn't do it by himself in Indy. Well if you ask me and a hell of a lot of other people they will say that team without Manning is a 4 win team. Yes I am assuming that but they are a bad football team and without Manning they are not a regular playoff team year in year out. I still think a few other not elite QB's could have racked up close to 9 wins in San Diego.

I would hardly call that stupid.

jcdavey
06-28-2011, 03:28 AM
:laugh:

So you are saying what I said is stupid because Manning doesn't do it by himself in Indy. Well if you ask me and a hell of a lot of other people they will say that team without Manning is a 4 win team. Yes I am assuming that but they are a bad football team and without Manning they are not a regular playoff team year in year out. I still think a few other not elite QB's could have racked up close to 9 wins in San Diego.

I would hardly call that stupid.

i would call it stupid...

johnlimburg
06-28-2011, 03:33 AM
i would call it stupid...

No offense buddy but you do not explain yourself. It is not stupid. It is the truth. It is the way a lot of people feel. I suppose they are all stupid. Rivers couldn't lead a good team to the playoffs but I said he gets a past because he is elite. However in order for him to be able to be considered with the top guys like Manning he should lead his team there. A team which is much better than the Colts.

And good work on explaining yourself. Great points. Throwing out the stupid tag when you can't explain why it is stupid. Good work :thumb:

:laugh:

johnlimburg
06-28-2011, 04:00 AM
i would call it stupid...


possibly the stupidest thing you've ever said

Pot calling the kettle black

LordTrychon
06-28-2011, 06:20 AM
Chargers fans, please understand that when we talk about your team being so talented, you only have yourselves to blame.

:laugh:

We've been hearing it for so long from you guys... about how great X is... but outside of smack, defending your QB, it's a different story.

Not saying that you're wrong.

Granted, the media bought your hype and sold it a lot too.

That all said... when compared to Manning, Brady, Brees, Rogers, even Ben... Rivers will continue to hear that he hasn't managed to get it done because he hasn't.

This is not hate, it's the way it is. Elway heard it until the end of his career.

You bring up Marino as far as being among the best QBs ever, what's the first thing that's always going to be said about him?

Until he wins one, it's going to be a topic. Doesn't mean he's no good... possibly not even great by the end of his career without one (a la Marino)... but he hasn't gotten it done.

baphamet
06-28-2011, 06:42 AM
Chargers fans, please understand that when we talk about your team being so talented, you only have yourselves to blame.
:laugh:

We've been hearing it for so long from you guys... about how great X is... but outside of smack, defending your QB, it's a different story.

Not saying that you're wrong.

Granted, the media bought your hype and sold it a lot too.

That all said... when compared to Manning, Brady, Brees, Rogers, even Ben... Rivers will continue to hear that he hasn't managed to get it done because he hasn't.

This is not hate, it's the way it is. Elway heard it until the end of his career.

You bring up Marino as far as being among the best QBs ever, what's the first thing that's always going to be said about him?

Until he wins one, it's going to be a topic. Doesn't mean he's no good... possibly not even great by the end of his career without one (a la Marino)... but he hasn't gotten it done.

the bolded isn't true at all, only ourselves to blame? lol broncos fans will be saying how talented the chargers are around rivers until the day he retires regardless if it is true or not.

why? it gives you a reason to smack him.

i seen a couple trolls say how talented the chargers are but other than that i just mainly see broncos fans saying it.

most of it really is ignorance to the reality of the situation. you see the same fans that say these things, say manning has nobody.

really? manning has a probowl receiver and TE, as well as a probowl center......just like rivers.

when both rivers and Manning lost a large chunk of their receivers last year due to injury, one QB's production dropped off while the others did not.

not saying rivers is better than manning by any means but it doesn't take a rocket scientist (who is also not a blind chargers hater) to see that rivers isn't mainly the reason the chargers missed the playoffs like so many broncos fans want to claim.

we are talking about a guy that won 13 games with the worst running game in the league and a middle of the road defense.

how come that is never mentioned? is that our fault too? ;)

last year the chargers sent three guys to the probowl......one of them rivers, the other Gates (who missed almost the entire second half of the season) and the third a linemen.

yet according to many broncos fans, rivers missed the playoffs with the most talented team in the league. :goofy:

that isn't our fault broncos fans have that inaccurate opinion, it is their own fault for being blinded by the hate they have for a team they supposedly don't think is their rival. :P

on a side note, i am shocked this hasn't been moved to smack yet. lol

CanDB
06-28-2011, 07:44 AM
anyone interested in talking about the Top 10, or should I start a separate thread for that?????



:confused:

BluenOrnge4Life
06-28-2011, 09:27 AM
i cant respond to you in the manner you just did b because i will no doubt receive an infraction for it.

save it for smack, unless you don't have the stones to show your face over there. :smug:

the joke is on you if you think you can argue facts. i posted the same type of links and pointed out the fact Vick didn't receive any MVP votes.

seriously, what part of that do you not understand???

just because someone wrote an article stating their opinion that it was a two person race, does not make it so.

the fact that nobody voted for rivers or Vick says it all, i am not being a homer by saying rivers or Vick were not in the race, i am just correcting some very biased and inaccurate things being spread around here on the subject.

am i being unfair by correcting you and pointing out the facts? am i being a homer by posting identical links about rivers, to the ones you posted about Vick?

do you not see how that diminishes the credibility of your argument? yet i cant be taken serous because i am a chargers fan?? :laugh:

Yes Brady was the unanimous MVP. That doesn't mean there wasn't an obvious 2nd choice for it. I can find you several articles of writers saying it was between Vick and Brady.

In fact, anyone that watched football - the weeks before the MVP being announced - could tell you that it was constantly talked about that the MVP race was between Vick & Brady.

You actually think Rivers had a chance at MVP being on a 9-7 team that missed the playoffs?

As for smack, there's a reason why I don't regularly post over there. Several of the Chargers fans that post on this board, don't even know how to spell the word logic, let alone use any.

LordTrychon
06-28-2011, 01:11 PM
the bolded isn't true at all, only ourselves to blame? lol broncos fans will be saying how talented the chargers are around rivers until the day he retires regardless if it is true or not.

why? it gives you a reason to smack him.

i seen a couple trolls say how talented the chargers are but other than that i just mainly see broncos fans saying it.

most of it really is ignorance to the reality of the situation. you see the same fans that say these things, say manning has nobody.

really? manning has a probowl receiver and TE, as well as a probowl center......just like rivers.

when both rivers and Manning lost a large chunk of their receivers last year due to injury, one QB's production dropped off while the others did not.

not saying rivers is better than manning by any means but it doesn't take a rocket scientist (who is also not a blind chargers hater) to see that rivers isn't mainly the reason the chargers missed the playoffs like so many broncos fans want to claim.

we are talking about a guy that won 13 games with the worst running game in the league and a middle of the road defense.

how come that is never mentioned? is that our fault too? ;)

last year the chargers sent three guys to the probowl......one of them rivers, the other Gates (who missed almost the entire second half of the season) and the third a linemen.

yet according to many broncos fans, rivers missed the playoffs with the most talented team in the league. :goofy:

that isn't our fault broncos fans have that inaccurate opinion, it is their own fault for being blinded by the hate they have for a team they supposedly don't think is their rival. :P

on a side note, i am shocked this hasn't been moved to smack yet. lol

I'm not going to dig too much... but I think all Charger fans probably expected more out of their team this last year and rightfully claimed them to be very talented, etc.

I know you qualified your remarks here, but you also claimed to just flat out be the best around in nearly every category.

I trusted you. :sad:


yeah and those analysts are idiots, they have been saying the window is closing for years, jumping on that analytical bandwagon that got started when talking about LT's window, not the chargers.

any team that has an offense with the caliber the chargers have, have their window wide open.

with rivers having many good years left, i fail to see why their "window" is closing. even if they did fail to make the playoffs one year, that doesn't mean their window is slammed shut, either.

elway didn't make the playoffs every year, not even close. so does that mean the broncos "window" to win a SB was slammed shut? obviously not.

honestly, anyone who uses that lame "window" analogy for a team to win a SB and not a player are huge morons and are simply jumping on the analogy bandwagon because every team has a chance to win a SB as long as they make the playoffs.

is SD in danger of not making the playoffs any time soon? possibly, but they have the best coach, best QB, the best ST overall, best offense and probably one of the best defenses in the division.

why the hell is their window closing soon? why are they in danger of being an annual sub .500 team? because that is what it would take for their window to close, i would love to hear the answer to that one. :coffee:

baphamet
06-28-2011, 03:05 PM
I'm not going to dig too much... but I think all Charger fans probably expected more out of their team this last year and rightfully claimed them to be very talented, etc.

I know you qualified your remarks here, but you also claimed to just flat out be the best around in nearly every category.

I trusted you. :sad:

you mean the best in the division? how is that the same thing? and i believe i was referring to the team as a whole (I.E offense, defense, ST's) not the players and their talent level.

come now trychon, you are better than this. how can saying the chargers have the best coach, offense, and probably best defense in the division be the same thing as saying they are one of the most talented teams in football.

the chargers did not have a lot of great talent on the defensive side of the ball, they didn't send one guy to the PB, yet they were still a pretty darn good defense as a whole.

i trust you understand the difference there.

besides, can you provide a link to that post? how long ago was it made? "best ST's"? lol i don't think so, not currently at least.

i am not saying the chargers have never been talented, are not talented now, or never been one of the most talented.

in 2006 they certainly were, when they sent like 11 guys to the PB.

the thing is, many of the broncos fans here pretend the chargers are still loaded with that same talent.

i made a post once that pointed out how many of those PB players were not on the team last year, yet rivers still has all that talent around him according to many of the broncos fans here. :rolleyes:

lastly, yes i did expect more from them last year, i expected them to win the division and i still do think they are one of the better teams in the division.

but i just don't see any chargers fans (other than some of the trolls) saying the chargers are one of the most talented teams in the league like you are claiming.

5 years ago? sure.....then again, 5 years ago the broncos were still a good team as well. :P

CoryWinget81
06-28-2011, 03:09 PM
you mean the best in the division? how is that the same thing? and i believe i was referring to the team as a whole (I.E offense, defense, ST's) not the players and their talent level.



There are 4 divisions in the AFC. You're saying the Chargers are the best team in the AFC west, which means they are at least top 4 in the AFC.

:smug:

baphamet
06-28-2011, 03:20 PM
There are 4 divisions in the AFC. You're saying the Chargers are the best team in the AFC west, which means they are at least top 4 in the AFC.

:smug:

not nessisarily, i think there are WC teams better than some division champs.

so you fail :P

CoryWinget81
06-28-2011, 03:21 PM
not nessisarily, i think there are WC teams better than some division champs.

so you fail :P

Now you're venturing in to BS land.

Are you a lawyer?

LordTrychon
06-29-2011, 05:52 AM
you mean the best in the division? how is that the same thing? and i believe i was referring to the team as a whole (I.E offense, defense, ST's) not the players and their talent level.

come now trychon, you are better than this. how can saying the chargers have the best coach, offense, and probably best defense in the division be the same thing as saying they are one of the most talented teams in football.

the chargers did not have a lot of great talent on the defensive side of the ball, they didn't send one guy to the PB, yet they were still a pretty darn good defense as a whole.

i trust you understand the difference there.

besides, can you provide a link to that post? how long ago was it made? "best ST's"? lol i don't think so, not currently at least.

i am not saying the chargers have never been talented, are not talented now, or never been one of the most talented.

in 2006 they certainly were, when they sent like 11 guys to the PB.

the thing is, many of the broncos fans here pretend the chargers are still loaded with that same talent.

i made a post once that pointed out how many of those PB players were not on the team last year, yet rivers still has all that talent around him according to many of the broncos fans here. :rolleyes:

lastly, yes i did expect more from them last year, i expected them to win the division and i still do think they are one of the better teams in the division.

but i just don't see any chargers fans (other than some of the trolls) saying the chargers are one of the most talented teams in the league like you are claiming.

5 years ago? sure.....then again, 5 years ago the broncos were still a good team as well. :P
That post is nearly exactly one year old (well almost) When something is quoted, unless it is done manually, that little arrow next to the name of the member quoted will take you the original post.

I'm not saying that you said this recently. I'm saying that you as well as other Charger fans (and yes, I include the trolls in this... ) have been pointing out the great talent level on your team for the past few years, and as recently as this past off season. Hell, I can think of one or two that would probably still say it now.

No, I know you did not claim to be the most talented team in the NFL... but you were hardly claiming that you barely had any talent at all, either.

I'm pretty sure you weren't claiming that you somehow managed to have the best offense, defense, ST and coaching all without any talent whatsoever.

My point was simply thus - a lot of the idea that the Chargers had a lot of talent comes from the Chargers fans saying so repeatedly. I know you weren't as adamant about it as some others... but that's because you are one of the more level-headed posters on that side overall. There's several of you that are good like that. Doesn't mean it wasn't being said.

I figure if you will go so far as to say that you had the best coaching, offense, defense and ST in the division (with the assumption that there must be some talent to go with it, cause otherwise, it's just great coaching)... then there are probably Chargers fans who were making even more outlandish claims.

baphamet
06-29-2011, 07:21 AM
That post is nearly exactly one year old (well almost) When something is quoted, unless it is done manually, that little arrow next to the name of the member quoted will take you the original post.

hmm i did not know that.


I'm not saying that you said this recently. I'm saying that you as well as other Charger fans (and yes, I include the trolls in this... ) have been pointing out the great talent level on your team for the past few years, and as recently as this past off season. Hell, I can think of one or two that would probably still say it now.

No, I know you did not claim to be the most talented team in the NFL... but you were hardly claiming that you barely had any talent at all, either.

I'm pretty sure you weren't claiming that you somehow managed to have the best offense, defense, ST and coaching all without any talent whatsoever.

My point was simply thus - a lot of the idea that the Chargers had a lot of talent comes from the Chargers fans saying so repeatedly. I know you weren't as adamant about it as some others... but that's because you are one of the more level-headed posters on that side overall. There's several of you that are good like that. Doesn't mean it wasn't being said.

I figure if you will go so far as to say that you had the best coaching, offense, defense and ST in the division (with the assumption that there must be some talent to go with it, cause otherwise, it's just great coaching)... then there are probably Chargers fans who were making even more outlandish claims.

never said the chargers are not talented, they are. but "the most talent-loaded team of the last decade"? that is the kind of stuff i am talking about and i just dont see any chargers fans here making those claims besides trolls who i don't even take seriously most of the time.

i don't think its mainly because of them the broncos fans say these things, i think people here in general are smart enough to realize those guys are just saying whatever they can to get under their skin.

i think it is because at one point the chargers did have a pretty talented squad and rival fans want to use that as a means to question rivers' ability.

the chargers had one of the most talented teams in the league at one point, but i don't think that has been the case for the past few years.

in the division? heck they still might be the most talented, but that is not what i was arguing and that isn't saying a whole lot to be brutally honest.

have you not seen the countless "rivers failed to get to the playoffs with the #1 defense and offense" posts in smack?

even though rivers is the primary reason for that #1 offense (and i can argue that #1 defense stat is horribly skewed as well), they just use it to make him look bad.

its the same concept.

just saying man, its not a big deal if you disagree. :)

LordTrychon
06-29-2011, 07:44 AM
hmm i did not know that.



never said the chargers are not talented, they are. but "the most talent-loaded team of the last decade"? that is the kind of stuff i am talking about and i just dont see any chargers fans here making those claims besides trolls who i don't even take seriously most of the time.

i don't think its mainly because of them the broncos fans say these things, i think people here in general are smart enough to realize those guys are just saying whatever they can to get under their skin.

i think it is because at one point the chargers did have a pretty talented squad and rival fans want to use that as a means to question rivers' ability.

the chargers had one of the most talented teams in the league at one point, but i don't think that has been the case for the past few years.

in the division? heck they still might be the most talented, but that is not what i was arguing and that isn't saying a whole lot to be brutally honest.

have you not seen the countless "rivers failed to get to the playoffs with the #1 defense and offense" posts in smack?

even though rivers is the primary reason for that #1 offense (and i can argue that #1 defense stat is horribly skewed as well), they just use it to make him look bad.

its the same concept.

just saying man, its not a big deal if you disagree. :)

I've made the #1 Offense/#1 Defense argument. Largely because it's funny to me, and it's exactly the sort of thing smack is supposed to be made of.

Yeah, it's definitely skewed on the defense side.

Still, there's a fair amount of talent there. I'm actually curious to see some breakdown on the teams before the start of the season, once the attention isn't on the labor strife.

baphamet
06-29-2011, 08:14 AM
I've made the #1 Offense/#1 Defense argument. Largely because it's funny to me, and it's exactly the sort of thing smack is supposed to be made of.
Yeah, it's definitely skewed on the defense side.

Still, there's a fair amount of talent there. I'm actually curious to see some breakdown on the teams before the start of the season, once the attention isn't on the labor strife.

yeah it is smack worthy, but i disagree it is funny......not funny at all! :cheeky:

Charlie Brown
06-29-2011, 09:23 AM
I find it extremely ridiculous that they put Cribbs in the top 100. Cribbs was an extreme disappointment last season. Instead of putting a player that did well, like Peyton Hillis, they decide that Cribbs is more important?

This list is completely absurd and is nothing more than a popularity contest.