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Gsam
03-18-2012, 09:57 AM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/18/elways-quest-to-move-on-from-tebow-may-not-end-with-manning/

Elway’s quest to move on from Tebow may not end with Manning
Posted by Michael David Smith on March 18, 2012, 12:52 PM EDT

Getty ImagesJohn Elway has already demonstrated, through his pursuit of Peyton Manning, that he wasn’t being completely candid when he declared that Tim Tebow had earned the right to enter training camp as the Broncos’ starter. But even if the Broncos fail to secure Manning’s services, that doesn’t mean Tebow’s position as the Broncos’ starter is safe.

In fact, as Mike Klis of the Denver Post points out, if Manning picks the Titans or 49ers, and Matt Hasselbeck or Alex Smith becomes the odd man out, it’s entirely possible that Hasselbeck or Smith would then become the Broncos’ next targets.

The problem is that most free agent quarterbacks aren’t going to want to step into a situation where they’re viewed by the Tebowmaniacs in Denver as the guy who was brought in to push Tebow out. PFT’s Mike Florio has heard that the Broncos looked into the possibility of signing Matt Flynn, but Flynn wanted nothing to do with the no-win situation that is replacing Tebow in Denver, or competing with him in training camp.

Hasselbeck or Smith, however, may find themselves without any better option if Manning chooses the Titans or 49ers. The chance to start in Denver is better than no chance to start anywhere.

Klis suggests that the Broncos also could decide to draft Oklahoma State quarterback Brandon Weeden, in another effort to find someone who could push Tebow aside. Drafting the 28-year-old Weeden is a move that a team would make if it thinks Weeden can start right away, and the Broncos may think Weeden is better than Tebow right now.

It sounds harsh to suggest that the Broncos would be so intent on replacing Tebow, after a season in which he was a big reason they went from 1-4 to the playoffs, and a big reason they won their first playoff game. But Elway inherited Tebow from the previous regime in Denver, and John Fox didn’t even want to start Tebow over Kyle Orton until the team’s 1-4 start forced his hand. Fox has already said he wants to have two new quarterbacks who can compete with Tebow, and the reality is that after Tebow completed only 46.5 percent of his passes last year, it’s reasonable for the Broncos to think they can get a better passer.

So it shouldn’t be a huge surprise if Tebow is not the Broncos’ starter this year. Even if they don’t get Manning.

LSIGRAD09
03-18-2012, 09:58 AM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/18/elways-quest-to-move-on-from-tebow-may-not-end-with-manning/

Elway’s quest to move on from Tebow may not end with Manning
Posted by Michael David Smith on March 18, 2012, 12:52 PM EDT

Getty ImagesJohn Elway has already demonstrated, through his pursuit of Peyton Manning, that he wasn’t being completely candid when he declared that Tim Tebow had earned the right to enter training camp as the Broncos’ starter. But even if the Broncos fail to secure Manning’s services, that doesn’t mean Tebow’s position as the Broncos’ starter is safe.

In fact, as Mike Klis of the Denver Post points out, if Manning picks the Titans or 49ers, and Matt Hasselbeck or Alex Smith becomes the odd man out, it’s entirely possible that Hasselbeck or Smith would then become the Broncos’ next targets.

The problem is that most free agent quarterbacks aren’t going to want to step into a situation where they’re viewed by the Tebowmaniacs in Denver as the guy who was brought in to push Tebow out. PFT’s Mike Florio has heard that the Broncos looked into the possibility of signing Matt Flynn, but Flynn wanted nothing to do with the no-win situation that is replacing Tebow in Denver, or competing with him in training camp.

Hasselbeck or Smith, however, may find themselves without any better option if Manning chooses the Titans or 49ers. The chance to start in Denver is better than no chance to start anywhere.

Klis suggests that the Broncos also could decide to draft Oklahoma State quarterback Brandon Weeden, in another effort to find someone who could push Tebow aside. Drafting the 28-year-old Weeden is a move that a team would make if it thinks Weeden can start right away, and the Broncos may think Weeden is better than Tebow right now.

It sounds harsh to suggest that the Broncos would be so intent on replacing Tebow, after a season in which he was a big reason they went from 1-4 to the playoffs, and a big reason they won their first playoff game. But Elway inherited Tebow from the previous regime in Denver, and John Fox didn’t even want to start Tebow over Kyle Orton until the team’s 1-4 start forced his hand. Fox has already said he wants to have two new quarterbacks who can compete with Tebow, and the reality is that after Tebow completed only 46.5 percent of his passes last year, it’s reasonable for the Broncos to think they can get a better passer.

So it shouldn’t be a huge surprise if Tebow is not the Broncos’ starter this year. Even if they don’t get Manning.

That makes me a little angry...

Bradshaw3001
03-18-2012, 10:00 AM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/18/elways-quest-to-move-on-from-tebow-may-not-end-with-manning/

Elway’s quest to move on from Tebow may not end with Manning
Posted by Michael David Smith on March 18, 2012, 12:52 PM EDT

Getty ImagesJohn Elway has already demonstrated, through his pursuit of Peyton Manning, that he wasn’t being completely candid when he declared that Tim Tebow had earned the right to enter training camp as the Broncos’ starter. But even if the Broncos fail to secure Manning’s services, that doesn’t mean Tebow’s position as the Broncos’ starter is safe.

In fact, as Mike Klis of the Denver Post points out, if Manning picks the Titans or 49ers, and Matt Hasselbeck or Alex Smith becomes the odd man out, it’s entirely possible that Hasselbeck or Smith would then become the Broncos’ next targets.

The problem is that most free agent quarterbacks aren’t going to want to step into a situation where they’re viewed by the Tebowmaniacs in Denver as the guy who was brought in to push Tebow out. PFT’s Mike Florio has heard that the Broncos looked into the possibility of signing Matt Flynn, but Flynn wanted nothing to do with the no-win situation that is replacing Tebow in Denver, or competing with him in training camp.

Hasselbeck or Smith, however, may find themselves without any better option if Manning chooses the Titans or 49ers. The chance to start in Denver is better than no chance to start anywhere.

Klis suggests that the Broncos also could decide to draft Oklahoma State quarterback Brandon Weeden, in another effort to find someone who could push Tebow aside. Drafting the 28-year-old Weeden is a move that a team would make if it thinks Weeden can start right away, and the Broncos may think Weeden is better than Tebow right now.

It sounds harsh to suggest that the Broncos would be so intent on replacing Tebow, after a season in which he was a big reason they went from 1-4 to the playoffs, and a big reason they won their first playoff game. But Elway inherited Tebow from the previous regime in Denver, and John Fox didn’t even want to start Tebow over Kyle Orton until the team’s 1-4 start forced his hand. Fox has already said he wants to have two new quarterbacks who can compete with Tebow, and the reality is that after Tebow completed only 46.5 percent of his passes last year, it’s reasonable for the Broncos to think they can get a better passer.

So it shouldn’t be a huge surprise if Tebow is not the Broncos’ starter this year. Even if they don’t get Manning.

We can only hope this is true.

CoryWinget81
03-18-2012, 10:00 AM
That makes me a little angry...

No one's interested in trying to outstage Tebowmania. I completely understand.

Bronco Texan
03-18-2012, 10:02 AM
That makes me a little angry...


Not me!!! :-) :-)

Ohenhen12345
03-18-2012, 10:05 AM
Would be angry if EFX didn't work to make every position competitive. Still remember draft night a couple of years ago. I didn't like the selection of Tebow in the first round. I got infraction points from this site.

ERoyal248
03-18-2012, 10:08 AM
No one's interested in trying to outstage Tebowmania. I completely understand.

Yep, that's why i think IF we got PM, Tebow is gone.

JayJack
03-18-2012, 10:09 AM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/18/elways-quest-to-move-on-from-tebow-may-not-end-with-manning/

Elway’s quest to move on from Tebow may not end with Manning
Posted by Michael David Smith on March 18, 2012, 12:52 PM EDT

Getty ImagesJohn Elway has already demonstrated, through his pursuit of Peyton Manning, that he wasn’t being completely candid when he declared that Tim Tebow had earned the right to enter training camp as the Broncos’ starter. But even if the Broncos fail to secure Manning’s services, that doesn’t mean Tebow’s position as the Broncos’ starter is safe.

In fact, as Mike Klis of the Denver Post points out, if Manning picks the Titans or 49ers, and Matt Hasselbeck or Alex Smith becomes the odd man out, it’s entirely possible that Hasselbeck or Smith would then become the Broncos’ next targets.

The problem is that most free agent quarterbacks aren’t going to want to step into a situation where they’re viewed by the Tebowmaniacs in Denver as the guy who was brought in to push Tebow out. PFT’s Mike Florio has heard that the Broncos looked into the possibility of signing Matt Flynn, but Flynn wanted nothing to do with the no-win situation that is replacing Tebow in Denver, or competing with him in training camp.

Hasselbeck or Smith, however, may find themselves without any better option if Manning chooses the Titans or 49ers. The chance to start in Denver is better than no chance to start anywhere.

Klis suggests that the Broncos also could decide to draft Oklahoma State quarterback Brandon Weeden, in another effort to find someone who could push Tebow aside. Drafting the 28-year-old Weeden is a move that a team would make if it thinks Weeden can start right away, and the Broncos may think Weeden is better than Tebow right now.

It sounds harsh to suggest that the Broncos would be so intent on replacing Tebow, after a season in which he was a big reason they went from 1-4 to the playoffs, and a big reason they won their first playoff game. But Elway inherited Tebow from the previous regime in Denver, and John Fox didn’t even want to start Tebow over Kyle Orton until the team’s 1-4 start forced his hand. Fox has already said he wants to have two new quarterbacks who can compete with Tebow, and the reality is that after Tebow completed only 46.5 percent of his passes last year, it’s reasonable for the Broncos to think they can get a better passer.

So it shouldn’t be a huge surprise if Tebow is not the Broncos’ starter this year. Even if they don’t get Manning.

As a HUGE Matt Flynn supporter, this has me PO'd. I've been saying that Tebow is more of a hinderance than he is a help. And this, alone with top WRs not wanting to sign here is proof of that. There is no way that Elway will continue to miss out on talent because of Tebow.

ERoyal248
03-18-2012, 10:09 AM
And i'd like Flynn but obv he won't come here with Tebow.

Ohenhen12345
03-18-2012, 10:11 AM
Elway is doing a great job.

-Rod-
03-18-2012, 10:13 AM
Tebow and the Broncos have to go separate ways this offseason, with or without Manning. Time to move on. Elway and Fox are not sold on Tebow. In this current situation, I ask myself why the Broncos released Orton instead of giving him a new contract. All-in with Tebow or conventional pocket passer? They should have made the decision last season.

thewiseguy
03-18-2012, 10:13 AM
Thanks Elway!

plummerwho
03-18-2012, 10:19 AM
Why not release McCoy? his playcalling were atrocious!!!

thewiseguy
03-18-2012, 10:22 AM
The playcalling is reflective of how much the QB can do.

InsaneBlaze23
03-18-2012, 10:23 AM
That makes me a little angry...


No one's interested in trying to outstage Tebowmania. I completely understand.


Yep, that's why i think IF we got PM, Tebow is gone.

Flynn is being smart, he doesn't wanna sign for a team where if the fan base spend every home game going "Tebow, Tebow, Tebow." Tebow becomes the start.

Unless you're a Peyton Manning, it is a no-win situation because the fan base wont allow anybody to be the QB.

I completely understand Flynn. You can't outstage Tebowmania, it's everlasting. The only way you beat it, is to send him to another team so the mania can be their problem.

Jay3
03-18-2012, 10:24 AM
Flynn wouldn't beat Tebow out. I don't blame him for staying away.

ERoyal248
03-18-2012, 10:25 AM
Flynn wouldn't beat Tebow out. I don't blame him for staying away.

Umm, yes he would...

BroncoBryce
03-18-2012, 10:27 AM
Umm, yes he would...

And then go 2-14......

#Broncosfan
03-18-2012, 10:28 AM
As a HUGE Matt Flynn supporter, this has me PO'd. I've been saying that Tebow is more of a hinderance than he is a help. And this, alone with top WRs not wanting to sign here is proof of that. There is no way that Elway will continue to miss out on talent because of Tebow.

You have a favorite new QB every week. You'll get over it.

thewiseguy
03-18-2012, 10:30 AM
Sorry Tebow fans, regardless of Manning situation he will not be starting for Broncos or any other NFL team for that matter. How many teams would even want Tebow vs Flynn???

JayJack
03-18-2012, 10:30 AM
You have a favorite new QB every week. You'll get over it.

Actually I don't. Flynn has been the one i've been wanting for 2 yrs now. Luck and RG3 was apart of a BOLD PREDICTION I made. I just supported it in my sig.

Ohenhen12345
03-18-2012, 10:32 AM
If we don't get Manning. Bring in Hasselback(sp), draft a QB, and trade Tebow.

#Broncosfan
03-18-2012, 10:32 AM
Actually I don't. Flynn has been the one i've been wanting for 2 yrs now. Luck and RG3 was apart of a BOLD PREDICTION I made. I just supported it in my sig.

Fair enough, but tbh I had heard EFX didn't want Flynn because he would likely not be successful in our system. Like a Kolb situation.

JayJack
03-18-2012, 10:34 AM
Fair enough, but tbh I had heard EFX didn't want Flynn because he would likely not be successful in our system. Like a Kolb situation.

What is our system? As of right now, I don't think we have one. And I don't believe that we'll be running the "Tebow System" anymore. So I doubt that report reflects EFX thoughts about our offense.

Bronco Blitz
03-18-2012, 10:36 AM
Not gonna lie, Flynn looked great at the helm in GB, but lets be honest....Green Bay has serious firepower surrounding their offense, not just via the QB. Two strong RBs, a phenom at TE, effective O - line, not to mention an arsenal of wide recievers. Flynn will go from driving a Corvette to a Chevette when he goes away from Green Bay.

InsaneBlaze23
03-18-2012, 10:37 AM
What is our system? As of right now, I don't think we have one. And I don't believe that we'll be running the "Tebow System" anymore. So I doubt that report reflects EFX thoughts about our offense.

I agree.

We don't really have a system, currently we're just throwing stuff together depending on who the QB is.

#Broncosfan
03-18-2012, 10:39 AM
What is our system? As of right now, I don't think we have one. And I don't believe that we'll be running the "Tebow System" anymore. So I doubt that report reflects EFX thoughts about our offense.

It was someone on ESPN saying it, and directed towards not fitting with Fox. They said the broncos were not interested in Flynn. Now whether that is true or not who knows.

JayJack
03-18-2012, 10:42 AM
Not gonna lie, Flynn looked great at the helm in GB, but lets be honest....Green Bay has serious firepower surrounding their offense, not just via the QB. Two strong RBs, a phenom at TE, effective O - line, not to mention an arsenal of wide recievers. Flynn will go from driving a Corvette to a Chevette when he goes away from Green Bay.

I understand what you're saying, but I have to disagree. When you look at those games, look at Flynn, not his weapons. Flynn threw very catchable balls that were accurate and on time, and his receivers didn't have to make some kind of accrobatic catch. He had command of the huddle, and he wasn't rattled by the fact that he had to go point to point with Stafford in order to win that game.

jaytea11
03-18-2012, 10:46 AM
Tebow and the Broncos have to go separate ways this offseason, with or without Manning. Time to move on. Elway and Fox are not sold on Tebow. In this current situation, I ask myself why the Broncos released Orton instead of giving him a new contract. All-in with Tebow or conventional pocket passer? They should have made the decision last season.


I agree with you 150%.. That relationship has got to be strained. I totally get that people that are Tebow fans get angered by this, but they do have to try and remember that Elway/Fox were not here and had nothing to do with drafting Tim Tebow.. People really need to realize that this is just one more problem created by Josh McDaniels.

I could see Xanders and Bowlen getting some heat for allowing that dumb*** to do all he did, but Fox and especially ELWAY had nothing to do with it and were brought in by Bowlen to try and save the the franchise that was being fast tracked into the ground by McDaniels.

Unfortunately for Tebow and his die hard fans, Elway and Fox see Tebow as something that needs to be "fixed".

Fyi.. I do like Tebow and wish him only the best, but I am a Bronco fan first and foremost..

Mk2_Tebow
03-18-2012, 10:48 AM
As a HUGE Matt Flynn supporter, this has me PO'd. I've been saying that Tebow is more of a hinderance than he is a help. And this, alone with top WRs not wanting to sign here is proof of that. There is no way that Elway will continue to miss out on talent because of Tebow.

Get upset at Flynn and no one else. If he is a competitor he should not fear any fans reaction because he would come in and win with the team just like the guy he replaced did .

No one is chanting "Tebow" if Flynn is 6-4 or 7-5 and in the hunt for the playoffs.

I like Flynn a lot as well but If Flynn did not really care about Denver becasue of Tebow then screw him because he is basically announcing to the world he can not do it better.

JvDub95
03-18-2012, 10:48 AM
Flynn is being smart, he doesn't wanna sign for a team where if the fan base spend every home game going "Tebow, Tebow, Tebow." Tebow becomes the start.

Unless you're a Peyton Manning, it is a no-win situation because the fan base wont allow anybody to be the QB.

I completely understand Flynn. You can't outstage Tebowmania, it's everlasting. The only way you beat it, is to send him to another team so the mania can be their problem.

That is exactly why Tebow won't be a Bronco this coming season, regardless of the PM situation. Tebow is gone and there will be 2-3 new bodies to compete for the starting job this season, imo.

Noshowers
03-18-2012, 10:50 AM
I agree with you 150%.. That relationship has got to be strained. I totally get that people that are Tebow fans get angered by this, but they do have to try and remember that Elway/Fox were not here and had nothing to do with drafting Tim Tebow.. People really need to realize that this is just one more problem created by Josh McDaniels.

I could see Xanders and Bowlen getting some heat for allowing that dumb*** to do all he did, but Fox and especially ELWAY had nothing to do with it and were brought in by Bowlen to try and save the the franchise that was being fast tracked into the ground by McDaniels.

Unfortunately for Tebow and his die hard fans Elway and Fox see Tebow as something that needs to be "fixed".

Fyi.. I do like Tebow and wish him only the best, but I am a Bronco fan first and foremost..

So that means get rid of the quarterback that got you to the playoffs and beat the Pittsburgh Steelers after starting the year 1-4. Broncos fans are weird sometimes, heh

Mk2_Tebow
03-18-2012, 10:51 AM
That is exactly why Tebow won't be a Bronco this coming season, regardless of the PM situation. Tebow is gone and there will be 2-3 new bodies to compete for the starting job this season, imo.

Flynn wants to play in Philbin's offense, this is pure speculation about Flynn not coming because of that , besides, if he is a competitor Flynn should not care who is here as he should feel confident he will win with the team as much or more as the guy he replaced.

Sorry I might buy it from a top wide reciever not wanting to play in a run ortiented team with a developing QB but NO WAY I am buying a QB wimping out because of potential fan reaction unless the QB in question is actually a wimp....c'mon..

InsaneBlaze23
03-18-2012, 10:53 AM
Tebow and the Broncos have to go separate ways this offseason, with or without Manning. Time to move on. Elway and Fox are not sold on Tebow. In this current situation, I ask myself why the Broncos released Orton instead of giving him a new contract. All-in with Tebow or conventional pocket passer? They should have made the decision last season.

I don't think me and you have ever agreed on something, and I'm not agreeing because I don't think Tebow will succeed in the NFL and because I don't think he's a QB, but because you what you said is true.

My theory on the Orton situation, Denver probably gave him a deal, but he turned it down.

Our team openly shopped him, but since nobody wanted him, we was stuck with him, add that to the fan base chanting for Tebow, your mindset is to just get off the team.

I think Orton played the way he did intentionally to get off the team because he didn't wanna be here, he doesn't like the fans, he felt disrespected by the front office.

jaytea11
03-18-2012, 10:53 AM
So that means get rid of the quarterback that got you to the playoffs and beat the Pittsburgh Steelers after starting the year 1-4. Broncos fans are weird sometimes, heh

Soooo... Tebow was solely responsible for getting the TEAM to the playoffs and winning a game???? Tebow fans sometimes..... heh...;)

THEdraftnik
03-18-2012, 10:53 AM
As a HUGE Matt Flynn supporter, this has me PO'd. I've been saying that Tebow is more of a hinderance than he is a help. And this, alone with top WRs not wanting to sign here is proof of that. There is no way that Elway will continue to miss out on talent because of Tebow.

Which WRs have we had for visits?

Which free agents have we signed?

JerseyAdam
03-18-2012, 10:53 AM
He said she said. Not sure what to make of it all yet, sounds like a bit speculation. There is already contradictory reports, from this post, as to why Flyyn wasn't even a choice here. Either way, doesn't matter at this point.

Something doesn't sit right with me. Elway publicly saying he's bring back Tebow as the #1 in camp but is obviously trying to move him via PM or other. I completely understand the PM move, but my point is after that excuse of "Well, it's PM.." there is no other excuse. It becomes contradictory from the front office and trickles down to every player here, or every player we may be looking into. When front offices back track on their words, it becomes difficult for the players, at every position. Leads to distrust and bottom line; solid players not wanting to play here. Some say Tebow is holding back this team? I must argue Tebow was major role in leading our team to the AFC West title and beating the AFC champs in a playoff game, after a 1-4 start that he had nothing to do with. PM and EFX on the other hand, have handcuffed the organization because of the pending deal with PM. What FA have we gone after, not to mention our own FA that have an unsettled feelings because we aren't looking after them, looking after our own.

Just trade Tebow if you don't want him Elway. Step up, and don't hide behind your true thoughts of where this organization is going, in your mind. That is my grip with how this is all being handled.

Lastly, if we do not get PM, why not give Tebow the job... Let's see what we have. If EFX does not like, sell it away. We are a building team and aside from PM stepping in here, we do not have a legit shot at going to the SB. We are young and building for the future, assuming we miss on PM.

I'm not here to debate if you support Tebow or not. That isn't the concept or point of this post.

Let the cards fall where they fall. It would really be a sad situation to see missed opportunity on a player(s) because of an ego trip.

Progress doesn't happen over night which is a tough pill to swallow in the era of instant gratification.

JayJack
03-18-2012, 10:54 AM
Get upset at Flynn and no one else. If he is a competitor he should not fear any fans reaction because he would come in and win with the team just like the guy he replaced did .

No one is chanting "Tebow" if Flynn is 6-4 or 7-5 and in the hunt for the playoffs.

I like Flynn a lot as well but If Flynn did not really care about Denver becasue of Tebow then screw him because he is basically announcing to the wrold he can not do it better.

I don't think Flynn is afraid of competition at all. The fact of the matter is, he'll never get a fair shot from the Tebow fans because 1. Tebow is on the bench. 2. Tebow is no longer here and Flynn may get the blame for it. Personally, I don't blame Flynn, I wouldn't want to go somewhere where you're basically in a no win situation unless you win the Super Bowl. At the end of the day, it's about being in a situation that you're comfortable with and being allowed the freedom to make mistakes as you grow. Tebow fans will not allow that to happen unless it's Tebow.

Mk2_Tebow
03-18-2012, 10:55 AM
I understand what you're saying, but I have to disagree. When you look at those games, look at Flynn, not his weapons. Flynn threw very catchable balls that were accurate and on time, and his receivers didn't have to make some kind of accrobatic catch. He had command of the huddle, and he wasn't rattled by the fact that he had to go point to point with Stafford in order to win that game.

Flynn is going to be a beast in miami if they surround him with the right weapons. I agree Flynn is good but I am not buying that Denver had any interest in him. Fox is not suddenly going to want to throw the ball 45 times again like Philbin in Miami will.

Noshowers
03-18-2012, 10:55 AM
Flynn wants to play in Philbin's offense, this is pure speculation about Flynn not coming because of that , besides, if he is a competitor Flynn should not care who is here as he should feel confident he will win with the team as much or more as the guy he replaced.

Sorry I might buy it from a top wide reciever not wanting to play in a run ortiented team with a developing QB but NO WAY I am buying a QB wimping out because of potential fan reaction unless the QB in question is actually a wimp....c'mon..

Mark Sanchez and a few other QBs in this league are wimpy, so its not out of the question that Matt Flynn would want to be a front Runner (for the starting position) like the Latino Superman and get handed the job.

InsaneBlaze23
03-18-2012, 10:55 AM
So that means get rid of the quarterback that got you to the playoffs and beat the Pittsburgh Steelers after starting the year 1-4. Broncos fans are weird sometimes, heh

Eh, Tebow didn't get anyone to the playoffs, Matt Prater did, Willis McGahee, the inconsistent defense, luck, Tebow's leadership.

Pittsburgh lost because the way they played defense.

Noshowers
03-18-2012, 10:56 AM
Soooo... Tebow was solely responsible for getting the TEAM to the playoffs and winning a game???? Tebow fans sometimes..... heh...;)

Somebody threw the ball in those games

Br0nc0Buster
03-18-2012, 10:56 AM
dont really care about Flynn, could be another Matt Cassel all over

But I am starting to come to the realization that Tebow most likely will be gone regardless of whether we get PM or not

starting to think Weeden is gonna be our 1st round pick

thewiseguy
03-18-2012, 10:56 AM
Trade Tebow to who? Does he even have any takers? Would not you think if we could have gotten some value for Tebow we would have traded him by now?

InsaneBlaze23
03-18-2012, 10:57 AM
Flynn is going to be a beast in miami if they surround him with the right weapons. I agree Flynn is good but I am not buying that Denver had any interest in him. Fox is not suddenly going to want to throw the ball 45 times again like Philbin in Miami will.

Well that depends if he can beat out Alex Smith.

Yahoo sports is reporting that Alex Smith had a meeting with the Dolphins.

rst08tierney
03-18-2012, 10:57 AM
Its Manning or broke.

Thats the chance you take when going after someone of Peytons caliber.

As for Tebow.....well.......it was a fun ride

JayJack
03-18-2012, 10:58 AM
Which WRs have we had for visits?

Which free agents have we signed?

C'mon Nik. You know yourself, as long as Tebow is behind center, no top receiver or 2nd tier receiver will want to come here. Receivers want to catch, not block. Although blocking is fine as long as they get rewarded. Right now, it looks like the only receiver that going to eat is DT.

I know you're a Tebow supporter, and that's fine. But don't act like we're not in a strange situation with Tebow being the QB.

Mk2_Tebow
03-18-2012, 10:58 AM
I don't think Flynn is afraid of competition at all. The fact of the matter is, he'll never get a fair shot from the Tebow fans because 1. Tebow is on the bench. 2. Tebow is no longer here and Flynn may get the blame for it. Personally, I don't blame Flynn, I wouldn't want to go somewhere where you're basically in a no win situation unless you win the Super Bowl. At the end of the day, it's about being in a situation that you're comfortable with and being allowed the freedom to make mistakes as you grow. Tebow fans will not allow that to happen unless it's Tebow.

I am a HUGE "tebow fan" and I don't agree with you. May the best man win for the Broncos , whatever is best for the team but if Flynn displaces Tebow and Tebow is on the bench and the Broncos start 1-4 or 0-5 sure, there is going to be heat but that would happen ANYWHERE that would have that situation with a back up that has playoff experience from the year before.

Tebow generated the heat by being the QB on a team that went 8-5 down the strech with a playoff win (after an abysmal few years where combined they had won less games than that) that is where the heat is coming from if there is any.

BTW jay, I like your comment bieng "allowed to develop and make mistakes"...oh the irony...

Mk2_Tebow
03-18-2012, 11:01 AM
Well that depends if he can beat out Alex Smith.

Yahoo sports is reporting that Alex Smith had a meeting with the Dolphins.

It would be unbelievable to me that they would want Smith (going into his 8th year where most were bad) to Flynn, an upcoming guy that in the right system is going to absolutely light it up but the Dolphins do mind boggling things...

JayJack
03-18-2012, 11:02 AM
Flynn is going to be a beast in miami if they surround him with the right weapons. I agree Flynn is good but I am not buying that Denver had any interest in him. Fox is not suddenly going to want to throw the ball 45 times again like Philbin in Miami will.

We may not pass the ball 45 times a game. But it's safe to say that it's a fact we threw the ball alot more with Orton than we did with Tebow. We didn't run the "Fox Ball/Offense" like with KO like we did with Tebow. I'm very confident that Fox is opened to the idea of being a balanced offense.

johnny utah
03-18-2012, 11:03 AM
Cant we trade Elway for another GM instead....

demosthenes9
03-18-2012, 11:03 AM
Eh, Tebow didn't get anyone to the playoffs, Matt Prater did, Willis McGahee, the inconsistent defense, luck, Tebow's leadership.

Pittsburgh lost because the way they played defense.



Did the inconsistent defense drive the ball 95 yards down the field to beat the Jets ?? Oh, wait, I guess it was luck that Tebow read an all out blitz, beat it, and scored a TD ??

I guess it was also luck that Tebow moved the ball downfield and got into a position where Prater could kick his FGs in the Bears game ?

Mk2_Tebow
03-18-2012, 11:03 AM
Trade Tebow to who? Does he even have any takers? Would not you think if we could have gotten some value for Tebow we would have traded him by now?

Clayton from ESPN reported a few days ago Bill Beleichick wants to trade for him if the Broncos want to trade.
Keep in mind Tebow was going to be a Patriot in the 2nd round before Denver took him in the first. Belichick said so himself.

There is at least 1 taker right now if Elway wants to dump him ...the Patriots.

InsaneBlaze23
03-18-2012, 11:05 AM
Did the inconsistent defense drive the ball 95 yards down the field to beat the Jets ?? Oh, wait, I guess it was luck that Tebow read an all out blitz, beat it, and scored a TD ??

I guess it was also luck that Tebow moved the ball downfield and got into a position where Prater could kick his FGs in the Bears game ?

The only reason we beat the Bears was because Marion Barber is a idiot.

I'd hope Tebow can read an all out blitz, if not then he worst than I thought.:coffee:

JayJack
03-18-2012, 11:05 AM
I am a HUGE "tebow fan" and I don't agree with you. May the best man win for the Broncos , whatever is best for the team but if Flynn displaces Tebow and Tebow is on the bench and the Broncos start 1-4 or 0-5 sure, there is going to be heat but that would happen ANYWHERE that would have that situation with a back up that has playoff experience from the year before.

Tebow generated the heat by being the QB on a team that went 8-5 down the strech with a playoff win (after an abysmal few years where combined they had won less games than that) that is where the heat is coming from if there is any.

BTW jay, I like your comment bieng "allowed to develop and make mistakes"...oh the irony...

I keep trying to tell y'all that when a QB is inherited, he doesn't get the same time to grow and develop like the "Chosen QB" does.

JvDub95
03-18-2012, 11:05 AM
Trade Tebow to who? Does he even have any takers? Would not you think if we could have gotten some value for Tebow we would have traded him by now?

http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2012/03/18/trade-market-strong-tebow/12599/

I agree with the info except for the Browns thing but, imo, I feel the Jags would be the best suiters

InsaneBlaze23
03-18-2012, 11:06 AM
Clayton from ESPN reported a few days ago Bill Beleichick wants to trade for him if the Broncos want to trade.
Keep in mind Tebow was going to be a Patriot in the 2nd round before Denver took him in the first. Belichick said so himself.

There is at least 1 taker right now if Elway wants to dump him ...the Patriots.

Also 2 owners in Florida have a bigger crush on Tebow than the "new" Broncos fans.

Mk2_Tebow
03-18-2012, 11:06 AM
Eh, Tebow didn't get anyone to the playoffs, Matt Prater did, Willis McGahee, the inconsistent defense, luck, Tebow's leadership.

Pittsburgh lost because the way they played defense.


I agree Tebow was not the only reason the Broncos completely turned around that abysmal record and ended 8-5 with a GREAT playoff win and yes
The Denver defense and the kicking game had as much to do with it .

BUT without Tebow the Broncos do not go 8-5 into the playoffs and get a great playoff win from the abysmal 7-24 run , as Tebow is one of the 3 pieces that were neccessary to get that accomplished (Quinn and Orton would not have had that success running the same offense) . this can not be argued and is fact.

Therefore Tebow deserves as much credit for the turn around as the defense and the kicking game and if not as much quite a bit (he was one of the 3 pieces) .

and A LOT of teams lose because of the way they play defense and the reason they played that defense is because they feared the running game and they feared the running game because Tebow was a big part of it. Please dislike Tebow all you want but you gotta stop making excuses for the Squealers.

demosthenes9
03-18-2012, 11:07 AM
The only reason we beat the Bears was because Marion Barber is a idiot.

I'd hope Tebow can read an all out blitz, if not then he worst than I thought.:coffee:


Didn't have anything to do with Denver forcing Barber out of bounds or with Denver stripping Barber ? Nah, of course not.

Noshowers
03-18-2012, 11:08 AM
I am a HUGE "tebow fan" and I don't agree with you. May the best man win for the Broncos , whatever is best for the team but if Flynn displaces Tebow and Tebow is on the bench and the Broncos start 1-4 or 0-5 sure, there is going to be heat but that would happen ANYWHERE that would have that situation with a back up that has playoff experience from the year before.

Tebow generated the heat by being the QB on a team that went 8-5 down the strech with a playoff win (after an abysmal few years where combined they had won less games than that) that is where the heat is coming from if there is any.

Exactly this.

Peyton Manning is one of the greatest of all time, so he is an upgrade for nearly every team in the National Football League, save a handful (Patriots, Saints, etc). If you can sign him, do so and the rest will be history.

Other then that, what are you going to get to replace your Quarterback that helped you go from 1-4 to an AFC West Championship and a first round playoff victory? You're going to be forever stuck in a loop looking for John Elway if you keep trying to sign and draft QBs instead of trying to find Terrell Davis, Rod Smith, etc.

Be like the 49ers (before the Peyton Manning talk). Draft your weapons, sign good free agents on defense, look to start finding a replacement for McGahee (who knows how much he has left), and go with what worked last year.

If Manning thought this TEAM had a real shot to win it all next year (in his opinion alone), he would have already signed on the dotted line. That is what you should be mad about, not because Tebow may be your QB next year.

JayJack
03-18-2012, 11:08 AM
Didn't have anything to do with Denver forcing Barber out of bounds or with Denver stripping Barber ? Nah, of course not.

The thing is, it should've never gotten to that point. All Barber had to do is fall down. Game over.

InsaneBlaze23
03-18-2012, 11:08 AM
Didn't have anything to do with Denver forcing Barber out of bounds or with Denver stripping Barber ? Nah, of course not.

Did Tebow do it? No I believe that was the defense.
Which adds one to the defense bailout the QB.

demosthenes9
03-18-2012, 11:09 AM
This article reenforces my view that while St. Elway was a great QB, he's a disaster as a FO executive.

Nice going Elway.

nic.zeman24
03-18-2012, 11:10 AM
Of course the D helps in a comeback in fact they are the most important part because of the other team keeps scoring there is no comeback.

Mk2_Tebow
03-18-2012, 11:11 AM
The only reason we beat the Bears was because Marion Barber is a idiot.

I'd hope Tebow can read an all out blitz, if not then he worst than I thought.:coffee:

Tebow went 18/24 for a 191 yards and a Td in what amounted to just over half a quarter of play in the clutch (mid way through 4th- over time) .

bad game to pick as an example for Tebow being useless , try again.

InsaneBlaze23
03-18-2012, 11:11 AM
I agree Tebow was not the only reason the Broncos completely turned around that abysmal record and ended 8-5 with a GREAT playoff win and yes
The Denver defense and the kicking game had as much to do with it .

BUT without Tebow the Broncos do not go 8-5 into the playoffs and get a great playoff win from the abysmal 7-24 run , as Tebow is one of the 3 pieces that were neccessary to get that accomplished (Quinn and Orton would not have had that success running the same offense) . this can not be argued and is fact.

Therefore Tebow deserves as much credit for the turn around as the defense and the kicking game and if not as much quite a bit (he was one of the 3 pieces) .

and A LOT of teams lose because of the way they play defense and the reason they played that defense is because they feared the running game and they feared the running game because Tebow was a big part of it. Please dislike Tebow all you want but you gotta stop making excuses for the Squealers.

Actually it's not fact with Quinn. You can't call it fact for him when the only time he's ever played was during preseason. He has zero starts as a Bronco during the regular season, nobody knows if he can or cannot play in the offense Fox runs. In fact not even Tebow could play in the type of offense Fox runs, they had to change the plays to suit him.

demosthenes9
03-18-2012, 11:12 AM
The thing is, it should've never gotten to that point. All Barber had to do is fall down. Game over.

That happens in games. All our receivers had to do was catch some of the balls that they dropped and the outcome of the game would have been different. Or, players on our team could have NOT committed the drive killing penalties and that would have changed the outcome as well.






Did Tebow do it? No I believe that was the defense.
Which adds one to the defense bailout the QB.


And no one has claimed that Tebow ws the sole, single reason that we won games.

Oilersfan34
03-18-2012, 11:14 AM
Flynn wouldn't beat Tebow out. I don't blame him for staying away.

Ummm.... yeah... he would.

thewiseguy
03-18-2012, 11:18 AM
And all the other team had to do was to convert some third downs and the outcome would have been different...LMAO...

Oilersfan34
03-18-2012, 11:18 AM
This article reenforces my view that while St. Elway was a great QB, he's a disaster as a FO executive.

Nice going Elway.

You realize its not his fault right? He didn't draft Tebow. He got stuck with Tebow and because Orton sucks they had no choice but to play him. Even Fox waited until the team was 1-4...thats how much they don't buy into him.

The truth is the only people hot on Tebow as a QB are his fans.

If he gets released or traded...he will either be a back up or he will have to change positions. You know it I know it.

Mantheyman
03-18-2012, 11:19 AM
If we don't get Manning. Bring in Hasselback(sp), draft a QB, and trade Tebow.

This^^^


I'm calling it now, we trade Tebow to Buffalo, sign Hasselbeck for a year or two, then we draft Osweiler in the 2nd. :helmet:

Rarelyoffended
03-18-2012, 11:20 AM
Flynn=poor mans kolb

Mk2_Tebow
03-18-2012, 11:22 AM
Actually it's not fact with Quinn. You can't call it fact for him when the only time he's ever played was during preseason. He has zero starts as a Bronco during the regular season, nobody knows if he can or cannot play in the offense Fox runs. In fact not even Tebow could play in the type of offense Fox runs, they had to change the plays to suit him.

Quinn could not have executed the option style offense

nyuk nyuk
03-18-2012, 11:22 AM
This reiterates what I already figured out: PFT is crap.

Mk2_Tebow
03-18-2012, 11:23 AM
And all the other team had to do was to convert some third downs and the outcome would have been different...LMAO...

That can be said of ANY football game

nyuk nyuk
03-18-2012, 11:23 AM
If we don't get Manning. Bring in Hasselback(sp), draft a QB, and trade Tebow.

Why are we trading Tebow, again?

MHS
03-18-2012, 11:24 AM
It's a sad conclusion for me, not for many but for me it is. But I have said before tebow will not be a bronco this year no matter what happens with manning. You don't go after a starting QB no matter how good they are in the offseason if you have faith in the current starter.

Grabber
03-18-2012, 11:29 AM
It's hilariously pathetic that so many that are so invested at being right about Tebow sucking keep bringing up the Chicago game.

They are more pissed at Marion Barber than Bears fans.

If only Barber just fell down the Broncos would've lost, they wouldn't have made the playoffs, they wouldn't have beat the Steelers, and I'd be right about Tebow!

Right, and the people that support Tebow are the idiots that aren't real Broncos fans...

:goz:

JvDub95
03-18-2012, 11:32 AM
Why are we trading Tebow, again?

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=104212

take it for what it's worth but.........:coffee:

jarbronco
03-18-2012, 11:32 AM
This reiterates what I already figured out: PFT is crap.

PFT is just another sleazy internet click counter making as much money off of media hype and made up stories as they can. You can either ignore that garbage or help feed it. I refuse to feed it.

jgod654
03-18-2012, 11:44 AM
Bah! Remember what Elway said when asked if Tebowmania would scare QBs away?

"then it's probably not the right guy"

tacmale
03-18-2012, 11:46 AM
No one's interested in trying to outstage Tebowmania. I completely understand.

Well then they are all a bunch of pansies.

Mk2_Tebow
03-18-2012, 11:51 AM
No one's interested in trying to outstage Tebowmania. I completely understand.

Tebow generated the heat by being the QB on a team that went 8-5 down the strech with a playoff win (after an abysmal few years where combined they had won less games than that) that is where the heat is coming from if there is any. It's not Tebow mania , it's fear of having someone that has already had success looming over you .

Bry2
03-18-2012, 11:56 AM
I'd be happy if we could just trade Tebowmania to another team. TT himself even says "The players make me look better than I really am" but the maniacs say "He did this, he did that, if it wasn't for Tebow blah blah blah". "Elway got a few years to mature into the position, Tebow should too" They don't want to give him a few years, deal with it. If TT is getting treated unfairly get a billboard and request his release/trade whatever. Everyone comes out as winners. The FO can move on, FA don't have to claim Tebowmania for avoiding Denver, and the maniacs can preach his case to the other teams.

/rant

InsaneBlaze23
03-18-2012, 12:07 PM
Quinn could not have executed the option style offense

What point don't you get. Foxes offense isn't option, the offense they put together for Tebow is opinion.

If Quinn was starting, he'd run the same offense Fox used with Orton, which is the same offense him and McCoy used back in Carolina.(Which is a form of West coast offense, in which we stop running because of Tebow).

krazy/kz1
03-18-2012, 12:09 PM
John Elway has already demonstrated, through his pursuit of Peyton Manning, that he wasn’t being completely candid when he declared that Tim Tebow had earned the right to enter training camp as the Broncos’ starter. But even if the Broncos fail to secure Manning’s services, that doesn’t mean Tebow’s position as the Broncos’ starter is safe.

In fact, as Mike Klis of the Denver Post points out, if Manning picks the Titans or 49ers, and Matt Hasselbeck or Alex Smith becomes the odd man out, it’s entirely possible that Hasselbeck or Smith would then become the Broncos’ next targets.

The problem is that most free agent quarterbacks aren’t going to want to step into a situation where they’re viewed by the Tebowmaniacs in Denver as the guy who was brought in to push Tebow out. PFT’s Mike Florio has heard that the Broncos looked into the possibility of signing Matt Flynn, but Flynn wanted nothing to do with the no-win situation that is replacing Tebow in Denver, or competing with him in training camp.

Hasselbeck or Smith, however, may find themselves without any better option if Manning chooses the Titans or 49ers. The chance to start in Denver is better than no chance to start anywhere.

Klis suggests that the Broncos also could decide to draft Oklahoma State quarterback Brandon Weeden, in another effort to find someone who could push Tebow aside. Drafting the 28-year-old Weeden is a move that a team would make if it thinks Weeden can start right away, and the Broncos may think Weeden is better than Tebow right now.

It sounds harsh to suggest that the Broncos would be so intent on replacing Tebow, after a season in which he was a big reason they went from 1-4 to the playoffs, and a big reason they won their first playoff game. But Elway inherited Tebow from the previous regime in Denver, and John Fox didn’t even want to start Tebow over Kyle Orton until the team’s 1-4 start forced his hand. Fox has already said he wants to have two new quarterbacks who can compete with Tebow, and the reality is that after Tebow completed only 46.5 percent of his passes last year, it’s reasonable for the Broncos to think they can get a better passer.

So it shouldn’t be a huge surprise if Tebow is not the Broncos’ starter this year. Even if they don’t get Manning.

JayJack
03-18-2012, 12:10 PM
http://forums.denverbroncos.com/showthread.php?t=209437

demosthenes9
03-18-2012, 12:21 PM
Elway as a GM inherited a 2 win team, and got them to the playoffs. How dare you trust his judgement.

yes, got them to the playoffs by handing the reins of the team over to a young, inexperienced QB with only 3 starts to his name. And then, AFTERWARDS, he's done nothing to support that young QB and instead, is out shopping for the likes of Hasselbeck.

CRNA2112
03-18-2012, 12:21 PM
OMG. You guys are hilarious. Boo Hoo Hoo, Flynn is afraid of Tebowmania.....Tebowmania is killing our chances of getting anybody......waaaahhhhaaaa!!!!!!!

Get real. If Flynn is afraid to come here because of Tebowmania then I fault Flynn, not Tebow. I'm supposed to fault Tebow for fans chanting his name every week? That's effing retarded.

Tebow has just as much right to have fans chant his name as the next player. If Flynn is afraid of another players popularity, then he won't have a long career.

demosthenes9
03-18-2012, 12:27 PM
It's all your opinion. You can have any opinion you want, but you don't know a dam thing about what Elway thinks of Tim any more than the people that hate Tebow. John IS the one in the position of power. You might think John should wipe his butt with 2-ply toilet paper, if he decides to use single ply, it doesn't give you the right to besmirch and degrade him.

You're right. I don't have a pipeline into the mind of the great John Elway. All I can do is look at what he has said and done as well as what has been reported.

Let's see. He had any number of opportunities to support HIS TEAM'S STARTER last season and HE DIDN'T DO IT.

He had the opportunity to name Tim Tebow as the starter for this next season, did he do it ? No, he didn't.


John Elway took the job of VP of whatever it is that his title is, so that right there gives me the right to degrade, besmirch and question the job that he is doing. If he wanted to remain unquestioned, then he shouldn't have taken the job.

12and4
03-18-2012, 12:33 PM
flynns a baby lol.

jarbronco
03-18-2012, 12:35 PM
OMG. You guys are hilarious. Boo Hoo Hoo, Flynn is afraid of Tebowmania.....Tebowmania is killing our chances of getting anybody......waaaahhhhaaaa!!!!!!!

Get real. If Flynn is afraid to come here because of Tebowmania then I fault Flynn, not Tebow. I'm supposed to fault Tebow for fans chanting his name every week? That's effing retarded.

Tebow has just as much right to have fans chant his name as the next player. If Flynn is afraid of another players popularity, then he won't have a long career.

I totally agree. When did it become a negative in sports to have a ton of rabid fans? It's more media generated garbage.

This is what John actually said about Tim. (notice, this is the full quote, I never break down a persons paragraphs into sentences and tear them apart out of context)

"We had personnel meetings this morning with everybody -- with the whole staff -- and got through that and obviously we talked a lot about Tim. I have asked everybody if they had a chance to do the deal over that the Broncos did last year to get Tim (whether they would do it again) and they all said, 'Yes.' I think that he has been everything that everybody expected him to be as far as a person, a man, a leader, and what everybody heard about him -- his intangibles ... I don't think a coach is going to (not want to coach Tebow), to be dead honest with you. Everyone is aware of what Tim Tebow is about and so I think that there is still a question -- obviously you have guys way over here that say there is no way, you have guys over here that think (otherwise) -- there are really not a lot of guys in the middle, but I think that anybody that comes in here and is going to be around Tim Tebow is going to understand that this guy is something special as a man and a person, willing to work with him to give him that opportunity to be the player that he wants. So, I don't believe that anyone is going to come over and say, 'I don't want Tim Tebow.' If they do, then maybe they are not the right guy for the job."

If you take John for what he has actually said and not what some media big head has made up about him to get famous you see he is doing what is best for everyone involved, specifically the Broncos.

JakeNbake
03-18-2012, 12:36 PM
You're right. I don't have a pipeline into the mind of the great John Elway. All I can do is look at what he has said and done as well as what has been reported.

Let's see. He had any number of opportunities to support HIS TEAM'S STARTER last season and HE DIDN'T DO IT.

He had the opportunity to name Tim Tebow as the starter for this next season, did he do it ? No, he didn't.


John Elway took the job of VP of whatever it is that his title is, so that right there gives me the right to degrade, besmirch and question the job that he is doing. If he wanted to remain unquestioned, then he shouldn't have taken the job.

All he does is WIN WIN WIN... It's all Elway... I mean... he took over a 4-12 team right... That's the only difference right?

Elway... he wins.

JayJack
03-18-2012, 12:37 PM
OMG. You guys are hilarious. Boo Hoo Hoo, Flynn is afraid of Tebowmania.....Tebowmania is killing our chances of getting anybody......waaaahhhhaaaa!!!!!!!

Get real. If Flynn is afraid to come here because of Tebowmania then I fault Flynn, not Tebow. I'm supposed to fault Tebow for fans chanting his name every week? That's effing retarded.

Tebow has just as much right to have fans chant his name as the next player. If Flynn is afraid of another players popularity, then he won't have a long career.

So the same can be said about Tebow, right? If in fact he will request a trade because his feelings are hurt since FoxWay doesn't believe in him.

Like I said before, I serious doubt Flynn is afraid of Tebowmania. It's about putting yourself in a comfortable situation and have the best chance to win. Isn't that what Tebowmania want for Tebow? Although Tebow is not even close to being great, following him is like following Manning, Favre, Marino, Elway, Montana, and even Steve Spurrier. You don't stand a chance if you don't go to the Super Bowl or a National Championship.

And personally, I don't blame Flynn. When there are reports that Tebowmania forced KO out of the starting spot, many across the league believes that because of Tebowmania, Brady Quinn got skipped on the depth chart. I understand why he wouldn't want to come here. It's not that he's scared to compete, it's the fact that he'd be coming into an hostile environment.

Bry2
03-18-2012, 12:39 PM
yes, got them to the playoffs by handing the reins of the team over to a young, inexperienced QB with only 3 starts to his name. And then, AFTERWARDS, he's done nothing to support that young QB and instead, is out shopping for the likes of Hasselbeck.
I never saw the memo that says its against the rules to have back QB's. Manning or no Manning, going into camp with 2 QB's on the roster is suicide. If the FO feels they can improve any position on the team why not go for it?

jarbronco
03-18-2012, 12:43 PM
You're right. I don't have a pipeline into the mind of the great John Elway. All I can do is look at what he has said and done as well as what has been reported.

Let's see. He had any number of opportunities to support HIS TEAM'S STARTER last season and HE DIDN'T DO IT.

He had the opportunity to name Tim Tebow as the starter for this next season, did he do it ? No, he didn't.


John Elway took the job of VP of whatever it is that his title is, so that right there gives me the right to degrade, besmirch and question the job that he is doing. If he wanted to remain unquestioned, then he shouldn't have taken the job.

Ok, we get your point. You think it would have prudent to turn the future of the Broncos over to an unproven commodity. So you think that gives you the right to get down on the ground and writhe in the muck and filth. Well it does, but I certainly don't have to read it. You just want to bicker and fight, hoping it will make you feel better. My ignore list is growing.

Butler By'Note
03-18-2012, 12:44 PM
You're right. I don't have a pipeline into the mind of the great John Elway. All I can do is look at what he has said and done as well as what has been reported.

Let's see. He had any number of opportunities to support HIS TEAM'S STARTER last season and HE DIDN'T DO IT.

He had the opportunity to name Tim Tebow as the starter for this next season, did he do it ? No, he didn't.


John Elway took the job of VP of whatever it is that his title is, so that right there gives me the right to degrade, besmirch and question the job that he is doing. If he wanted to remain unquestioned, then he shouldn't have taken the job.

But why does he have to buy into Tim Tebow? If he doesn't actually believe in him why should come out and do all of the things you think he should?

The job of the GM (in this case VP of football operations) is to make the team better, Elway feels upgrading at the QB position makes this team better, he's doing his job plain and simple!

Maybe he'll be right, maybe he'll be wrong but it's HIS JOB to do what HE FEELS is best for the team, not to listen to a segment of fans and do exactly what they say.

BTW if Tebow can't deal with all of this (and I'm sure he can but his fans can't) then he picked the wrong business to be in. He's not the first QB to have to go through this and he won't be the last. Actually you just need to look at the history of the franchise to see this, in 1999 Brian Griese was the QB, he and the team struggled, Shanahan tried to replace him with Steve Young, but in the end Young retired, how did Griese react to this? He got better and raised his QB rating from 75.6 to 102.9 and went to the Pro Bowl.

MHSalute
03-18-2012, 12:46 PM
That's where i'm at with it. I'm pretty sure, and it's quite obvious that FoxWay has seen enough from Tebow to determine that he isn't the QB for them. Cool. They need to find their QB and ride or die with him. It's that simple.

...and this should be the end to the conversation, but it won't be.

jarbronco
03-18-2012, 12:51 PM
...and this should be the end to the conversation, but it won't be.

It won't be because what seems obvious is not always the case, especially if you are as biased as these 2 segments of the total fanbase are. Going after Manning doesn't mean they don't want Tebow. It's only being seen that way by fans who either love or hate Tebow a Leeetle too much.

demosthenes9
03-18-2012, 01:02 PM
I never saw the memo that says its against the rules to have back QB's. Manning or no Manning, going into camp with 2 QB's on the roster is suicide. If the FO feels they can improve any position on the team why not go for it?


I have nothing against bringing in backup QBs and/or some young late round guys to be developed.

But look at who is being talked about. If not Manning (which again, I can understand), then Alex Smith, a 6 or so year starter and Matt Hasselbeck, another long time starter.

You don't bring guys like that in if your goal/objective is to try and develop your young QB.

No, you bring guys like that in to replace the QB that you don't have faith in and aren't willing to give a year to develop.

demosthenes9
03-18-2012, 01:18 PM
But why does he have to buy into Tim Tebow? If he doesn't actually believe in him why should come out and do all of the things you think he should?

The job of the GM (in this case VP of football operations) is to make the team better, Elway feels upgrading at the QB position makes this team better, he's doing his job plain and simple!

Maybe he'll be right, maybe he'll be wrong but it's HIS JOB to do what HE FEELS is best for the team, not to listen to a segment of fans and do exactly what they say.[/quoet]


I understand that it's his job, and I happen to think that he is doing very poorly at it and am voicing my opinion on the subject.

Even if he didn't think Tebow was the future, he definitely shouldn't have been saying that during last season, when Tebow was out there on the field trying to win football games.

Someone from the PR department should have slapped a muzzle on him and/or coached him as to what kinds of things he should have been saying.

And then the end of season press conference where he drops some platitudes and then says "Oh, Tebow is the starter going into TC" ? DUH, they didn't have anyone else under contract. OF COURSE, Tebow was the starter going into TC.

But no, John had to get out there and act like this was some show of support or show of faith.




[quote]BTW if Tebow can't deal with all of this (and I'm sure he can but his fans can't) then he picked the wrong business to be in. He's not the first QB to have to go through this and he won't be the last. Actually you just need to look at the history of the franchise to see this, in 1999 Brian Griese was the QB, he and the team struggled, Shanahan tried to replace him with Steve Young, but in the end Young retired, how did Griese react to this? He got better and raised his QB rating from 75.6 to 102.9 and went to the Pro Bowl.


So, that stuff like his has happened before means that I'm supposed to be happy about it or supportive of it now ??

catsigater
03-18-2012, 01:24 PM
That's where i'm at with it. I'm pretty sure, and it's quite obvious that FoxWay has seen enough from Tebow to determine that he isn't the QB for them. Cool. They need to find their QB and ride or die with him. It's that simple.
Apparently Elway doesn't know his own mind.

jgod654
03-18-2012, 01:26 PM
OMG. You guys are hilarious. Boo Hoo Hoo, Flynn is afraid of Tebowmania.....Tebowmania is killing our chances of getting anybody......waaaahhhhaaaa!!!!!!!

Get real. If Flynn is afraid to come here because of Tebowmania then I fault Flynn, not Tebow. I'm supposed to fault Tebow for fans chanting his name every week? That's effing retarded.

Tebow has just as much right to have fans chant his name as the next player. If Flynn is afraid of another players popularity, then he won't have a long career.

And THIS is called truth!

Legion509
03-18-2012, 01:29 PM
Would be angry if EFX didn't work to make every position competitive. Still remember draft night a couple of years ago. I didn't like the selection of Tebow in the first round. I got infraction points from this site.

Tebow goes to 49ers wins 4 superbowls?

Smith is in Miami, PM is Tenn or Denver.

MorenoFan27
03-18-2012, 01:33 PM
Somebody threw the ball in those games

Debatable ...

Bry2
03-18-2012, 01:35 PM
I have nothing against bringing in backup QBs and/or some young late round guys to be developed.

But look at who is being talked about. If not Manning (which again, I can understand), then Alex Smith, a 6 or so year starter and Matt Hasselbeck, another long time starter.

You don't bring guys like that in if your goal/objective is to try and develop your young QB.

No, you bring guys like that in to replace the QB that you don't have faith in and aren't willing to give a year to develop.
Manning, Hasselbeck, Alex Smith, and Matt Flynn are the only QB names I've seen mentioned in reports/rumors. Matt Flynn doesn't want any part of Denver, according to the PFT article. Manning..well we all know what's going on there.

You're giving me the impression that you give TT the starting job Week 1 and have a line of development scrubs backing him up regardless of how camp etc goes. Great..and if Tebow gets injured we are stuck with another inexperienced QB running the show. Awesome! Maybe we should just bring in Caleb Hanie and call it a day.

LSIGRAD09
03-18-2012, 01:46 PM
Get upset at Flynn and no one else. If he is a competitor he should not fear any fans reaction because he would come in and win with the team just like the guy he replaced did .

No one is chanting "Tebow" if Flynn is 6-4 or 7-5 and in the hunt for the playoffs.

I like Flynn a lot as well but If Flynn did not really care about Denver becasue of Tebow then screw him because he is basically announcing to the world he can not do it better.

I think the point is Flynn wouldn't even get the chance to be in this situation...

demosthenes9
03-18-2012, 01:48 PM
Manning, Hasselbeck, Alex Smith, and Matt Flynn are the only QB names I've seen mentioned in reports/rumors. Matt Flynn doesn't want any part of Denver, according to the PFT article. Manning..well we all know what's going on there.

You're giving me the impression that you give TT the starting job Week 1 and have a line of development scrubs backing him up regardless of how camp etc goes. Great..and if Tebow gets injured we are stuck with another inexperienced QB running the show. Awesome! Maybe we should just bring in Caleb Hanie and call it a day.

Yes, after what he did this year, I would definitely give Tebow the starting job for the upcoming season. I wouldn't have "scrubs" backing him up, but I wouldn't be bringing in guys who were freaking starters last year either. I'd get a vet "backup" Qb and would take a QB in the late rounds of the draft (4th round or later).

If Tebow ends up failing, bench him, do what you can with the rest of the season and then try to get a franchise QB in next year's draft.

That's how it works when you have a young QB. That's what the Vikings are doing with Ponder. The Jags seem to be doing it with Gabbert.

It's the way most NFL teams do it, well, except for the freaking Raiders :)

Mk2_Tebow
03-18-2012, 01:49 PM
So the same can be said about Tebow, right? If in fact he will request a trade because his feelings are hurt since FoxWay doesn't believe in him.

Like I said before, I serious doubt Flynn is afraid of Tebowmania. It's about putting yourself in a comfortable situation and have the best chance to win. Isn't that what Tebowmania want for Tebow? Although Tebow is not even close to being great, following him is like following Manning, Favre, Marino, Elway, Montana, and even Steve Spurrier. You don't stand a chance if you don't go to the Super Bowl or a National Championship.

And personally, I don't blame Flynn. When there are reports that Tebowmania forced KO out of the starting spot, many across the league believes that because of Tebowmania, Brady Quinn got skipped on the depth chart. I understand why he wouldn't want to come here. It's not that he's scared to compete, it's the fact that he'd be coming into an hostile environment.

If Tebow request a trade if the Broncos DO NOT land Manning , then its the first chink in his armor that I have seen. I will be the first to admit it and say it was not the right thing for him to do.

If Tebow request a trade if the Broncos DO land Manning, then I am not going to fault him because its his hard work and career. If he feels he needs to go someone where else and have a better shot at playing than waiting for 5 years then he has a right to do it.

I know your an intelligent football fan, and i know you know that the only reaosn KO was demoted is because he sucked and lost the locker room and not because of a bill board.

Butler By'Note
03-18-2012, 01:50 PM
[QUOTE=Butler By'Note;4335253]But why does he have to buy into Tim Tebow? If he doesn't actually believe in him why should come out and do all of the things you think he should?

The job of the GM (in this case VP of football operations) is to make the team better, Elway feels upgrading at the QB position makes this team better, he's doing his job plain and simple!

Maybe he'll be right, maybe he'll be wrong but it's HIS JOB to do what HE FEELS is best for the team, not to listen to a segment of fans and do exactly what they say.[/quoet]


I understand that it's his job, and I happen to think that he is doing very poorly at it and am voicing my opinion on the subject.

Even if he didn't think Tebow was the future, he definitely shouldn't have been saying that during last season, when Tebow was out there on the field trying to win football games.

Someone from the PR department should have slapped a muzzle on him and/or coached him as to what kinds of things he should have been saying.

And then the end of season press conference where he drops some platitudes and then says "Oh, Tebow is the starter going into TC" ? DUH, they didn't have anyone else under contract. OF COURSE, Tebow was the starter going into TC.

But no, John had to get out there and act like this was some show of support or show of faith.







So, that stuff like his has happened before means that I'm supposed to be happy about it or supportive of it now ??

He doesn't believe in him no sense in putting on some dog and pony show. Whether you want to admit it Tebow, right now, is at best a borderline NFL QB, yes he can run but until he can pass the ball consistently he's nothing more than a fullback. Yes he went 8-5 as a starter last year and threw some terrific passes in the Pittsburgh game but what exactly has he shown you in the NFL that leads you to believe he's the next big thing?

As for your last comment, has nothing to do with how you feel, it was more of a point that if Tebow is going to believe he's above all of this then he might want to think about making the charity work that he does his fulltime job.

samparnell
03-18-2012, 01:54 PM
Sports reporter or rumor monger?

BroncoDonko
03-18-2012, 01:54 PM
I like how people say it's a "no-win situation" for a QB to replace Tebow. It's not a no-win situation at all. In fact, winning would be very easy if you listen to all the Tebow critics. All you have to do is win the division and a first round playoff game, like Tebow, who is apparently a terrible quarterback -- with the same team, except more experienced. If you win as much as Tebow did, nobody would clamor for Tebow. And that shouldn't be hard, considering this team was allegedly dragging him along.

It's amazing how intellectually inconsistent some of the Tebow critics are. He sucks, he was a detriment, he's one of the worst starting QBs in the NFL... but replacing him would be a nightmare. If you actually believe Tebow is that bad, QBs should be licking their chops to replace him. If he can go to the second round with this team, a better QB should be able to contend for a Super Bowl easily.

Butler By'Note
03-18-2012, 01:54 PM
If Tebow request a trade if the Broncos DO NOT land Manning , then its the first chink in his armor that I have seen. I will be the first to admit it and say it was not the right thing for him to do.

If Tebow request a trade if the Broncos DO land Manning, then I am not going to fault him because its his hard work and career. If he feels he needs to go someone where else and have a better shot at playing than waiting for 5 years then he has a right to do it.

I know your an intelligent football fan, and i know you know that the only reaosn KO was demoted is because he sucked and lost the locker room and not because of a bill board.

Tebow has the right to request a trade at any point in time, but the Broncos also have the right to say no if they deem that's what's best for the franchise.

Agreed Orton was benched because he sucked BUT the reason Tebow got his shot at that point over Brady Quinn was due to fan pressure.

Butler By'Note
03-18-2012, 01:56 PM
I like how people say it's a "no-win situation" for a QB to replace Tebow. It's not a no-win situation at all. In fact, winning would be very easy if you listen to all the Tebow critics. All you have to do is win the division and a first round playoff game, like Tebow, who is apparently a terrible quarterback -- with the same team, except more experienced. If you win as much as Tebow did, nobody would clamor for Tebow. And that shouldn't be hard, considering this team was allegedly dragging him along.

It's amazing how intellectually inconsistent some of the Tebow critics are. He sucks, he was a detriment, he's one of the worst starting QBs in the NFL... but replacing him would be a nightmare. If you actually believe Tebow is that bad, QBs should be licking their chops to replace him. If he can go to the second round with this team, a better QB should be able to contend for a Super Bowl easily.

Agreed, a better QB would go further with this group!

catsigater
03-18-2012, 01:58 PM
Tebow has the right to request a trade at any point in time, but the Broncos also have the right to say no if they deem that's what's best for the franchise.

Agreed Orton was benched because he sucked BUT the reason Tebow got his shot at that point over Brady Quinn was due to fan pressure.
Fan pressure was a reason, not the reason.

Quinn's dismal showing in the last preseason game was a reason.
The fact that Tebow was the only QB under contract next year was a reason.
And Fan pressure was a reason.

JayJack
03-18-2012, 01:59 PM
If Tebow request a trade if the Broncos DO NOT land Manning , then its the first chink in his armor that I have seen. I will be the first to admit it and say it was not the right thing for him to do.

If Tebow request a trade if the Broncos DO land Manning, then I am not goign to fault him because its his hard work and career. If he feels he needs to go someone where else and have a better shot at playing than waiting for 5 years then he has a right to do it.

I know your an intelligent football fan, and i know you know that the only reaosn KO was demoted is because he sucked and lost the locker room and not because of a bill board.

But it's Flynn's hard work and career also. So he should do what's best for him. That doesn't mean he's scared of competition.

Thanx for the comment. Could that be part of the reason, i'm not doubting that at all. But i'm still one who believes that Tebowmania forced some decisions that was made. Like pulling KO and starting Tebow over Quinn. I'm a firm believer that Quinn was the #2 QB. But Tebowmania screamed enough for Tebow until BQ got skipped. That's been my opinion for ever, and BQ confirmed that for me a couple of weeks ago, although he didn't have to. With that said, I don't think FoxWay's intent was for it to be permanent.

I believe they were going to give Tebow 2 games to fail and then BQ would've gotten his chance. Problem is, Tebow never lost 2 in a row until the end of the season was near. It was basically to late bring him out then.

MHSalute
03-18-2012, 02:00 PM
It's amazing how intellectually inconsistent some of the Tebow critics are. He sucks, he was a detriment, he's one of the worst starting QBs in the NFL... but replacing him would be a nightmare. If you actually believe Tebow is that bad, QBs should be licking their chops to replace him. If he can go to the second round with this team, a better QB should be able to contend for a Super Bowl easily.


I would love it if Tebow advocates would use something besides TEAM accomplishments to support why he is a good QB. For me, watching him play QB was painful, for the most part. Good deep ball and competitive fire, all else was really sub par.

Not once did I see anything close to consistent play in his game. Once teams figured out how to play him, he really, really struggled to put points on the board.

Legion509
03-18-2012, 02:30 PM
Agreed, a better QB would go further with this group!


And that worked out for Orton or are you saying hes worse then Tebow?

BroncoDonko
03-18-2012, 02:44 PM
I would love it if Tebow advocates would use something besides TEAM accomplishments to support why he is a good QB. For me, watching him play QB was painful, for the most part. Good deep ball and competitive fire, all else was really sub par.

Not once did I see anything close to consistent play in his game. Once teams figured out how to play him, he really, really struggled to put points on the board.

Really? You didn't see consistent play from a 24-year old first-time starter at quarterback? Shocker.

And like it or not, football is a TEAM sport. Contrary to blogger belief, the goal is not to throw for 3500 yards or complete 65% of your passes. The goal is to win.

We did that with Tebow playing the most important position on the TEAM, for a TEAM that had gone 7-24 in their past 31 games, then suddenly shifted into an 8-5 playoff TEAM when Tebow took over.

But again, that's not the point. We're not talking about Tebow's merits as a player anymore. We're talking about replacing him. According to you, and many others, it's a TEAM sport, right? I assume that's your point, given your capitalization. That would imply that Tebow was the beneficiary of a good TEAM. Individually, he was "painful, for the most part". So why would it be difficult to replace him? Why would that be a nightmare? Replacing Elway is a nightmare. Replacing a terrible quarterback on a good team is a great situation. Even by being not terrible, you'd be an improvement -- thus making the TEAM better, no?

So why is it that everyone is so afraid to see a non-Hall of Fame QB take Tebow's place? Why is that going to be a nightmare? Are you guys not confident we can make the playoffs and win a first round match-up with a different QB and the same team? It should be far easier with a different, less terrible quarterback.

Also: I think the Steelers would disagree with your assessment that Tebow really struggled once teams "figured out how to play him", considering he threw for more yards against them than any other QB in the NFL this season.

MHSalute
03-18-2012, 02:47 PM
So why is it that everyone is so afraid to see a non-Hall of Fame QB take Tebow's place? Why is that going to be a nightmare? Are you guys not confident we can make the playoffs and win a first round match-up with a different QB and the same team? It should be far easier with a different, less terrible quarterback.



So we agree then :thumb:

Butler By'Note
03-18-2012, 03:05 PM
And that worked out for Orton or are you saying hes worse then Tebow?

Absolutely he played worse than Tebow. But is that really the only thing you think Tebow needs to live up to, being better than Orton?!

Grabber
03-18-2012, 03:05 PM
But it's Flynn's hard work and career also. So he should do what's best for him. That doesn't mean he's scared of competition.

Thanx for the comment. Could that be part of the reason, i'm not doubting that at all. But i'm still one who believes that Tebowmania forced some decisions that was made. Like pulling KO and starting Tebow over Quinn. I'm a firm believer that Quinn was the #2 QB. But Tebowmania screamed enough for Tebow until BQ got skipped. That's been my opinion for ever, and BQ confirmed that for me a couple of weeks ago, although he didn't have to. With that said, I don't think FoxWay's intent was for it to be permanent.

I believe they were going to give Tebow 2 games to fail and then BQ would've gotten his chance. Problem is, Tebow never lost 2 in a row until the end of the season was near. It was basically to late bring him out then.

Haha. And that's the crazy part -- that it IS a problem for so many on this board.

If only the Broncos would have lost...

It would have made many people here happy. Specifically the ones calling out people rooting for Orton to lose. THAT'S the crazy part.

KansasKrista
03-18-2012, 03:17 PM
I'd be happy if we could just trade Tebowmania to another team. TT himself even says "The players make me look better than I really am" but the maniacs say "He did this, he did that, if it wasn't for Tebow blah blah blah". "Elway got a few years to mature into the position, Tebow should too" They don't want to give him a few years, deal with it. If TT is getting treated unfairly get a billboard and request his release/trade whatever. Everyone comes out as winners. The FO can move on, FA don't have to claim Tebowmania for avoiding Denver, and the maniacs can preach his case to the other teams.

/rant

There are "manicas" on both sides of this issue. Both sides have shown intensity and passion and debate their case over and over, again. How is it that only the Tebow supporters are labeled fanatics when the other side does the exact same thing?

Time for all this division in the fanbase.. time for us to stop the madness.

I personally hope Tebow goes because this entire thing has been exhausting. I have lost respect for some fans because of the way I have been treated for simply defending Tim Tebow.

In some weird Twilight Zone world defending a Bronco QB to another Bronco fan suddenly became something to be attacked for.

Coming from someone who took a lot of flack from the "negative side" of the Tebow debate, I can tell you there are "maniacs" on both sides... and its time we get real and stop labeling others because they happen to disagree with you.

Butler By'Note
03-18-2012, 03:24 PM
There are "manicas" on both sides of this issue. Both sides have shown intensity and passion and debate their case over and over, again. How is it that only the Tebow supporters are labeled fanatics when the other side does the exact same thing?

Time for all this division in the fanbase.. time for us to stop the madness.

I personally hope Tebow goes because this entire thing has been exhausting. I have lost respect for some fans because of the way I have been treated for simply defending Tim Tebow.

In some weird Twilight Zone world defending a Bronco QB to another Bronco fan suddenly became something to be attacked for.

Coming from someone who took a lot of flack from the "negative side" of the Tebow debate, I can tell you there are "maniacs" on both sides... and its time we get real and stop labeling others because they happen to disagree with you.

With all due respect (and I do mean that!) for me the Tebow maniacs are the "fans" who simply became Broncos fans because Tebow ended up here, and they really don't care about anything the Broncos do unless it's what's best for Tebow. These same "fans" also heap all praise on Tebow for "carrying" the team to victories and heap scorn on all of the other 52 players for letting Tebow down in a loss regardless of what the reality may have been.

I have complete respect for all Broncos fans who just want what's best for the TEAM regardless of which side of the Tebow debate they're on.

Bry2
03-18-2012, 03:34 PM
There are "manicas" on both sides of this issue. Both sides have shown intensity and passion and debate their case over and over, again. How is it that only the Tebow supporters are labeled fanatics when the other side does the exact same thing?

Time for all this division in the fanbase.. time for us to stop the madness.

I personally hope Tebow goes because this entire thing has been exhausting. I have lost respect for some fans because of the way I have been treated for simply defending Tim Tebow.

In some weird Twilight Zone world defending a Bronco QB to another Bronco fan suddenly became something to be attacked for.

Coming from someone who took a lot of flack from the "negative side" of the Tebow debate, I can tell you there are "maniacs" on both sides... and its time we get real and stop labeling others because they happen to disagree with you.


With all due respect (and I do mean that!) for me the Tebow maniacs are the "fans" who simply became Broncos fans because Tebow ended up here, and they really don't care about anything the Broncos do unless it's what's best for Tebow. These same "fans" also heap all praise on Tebow for "carrying" the team to victories and heap scorn on all of the other 52 players for letting Tebow down in a loss regardless of what the reality may have been.

I have complete respect for all Broncos fans who just want what's best for the TEAM regardless of which side of the Tebow debate they're on.

Couldn't have said it better.

CDUB1620
03-18-2012, 03:38 PM
If we don't get Manning. Bring in Hasselback(sp), draft a QB, and trade Tebow.

I like how you think.:goz:

Gemini850
03-18-2012, 04:27 PM
I keep trying to tell y'all that when a QB is inherited, he doesn't get the same time to grow and develop like the "Chosen QB" does.
Truth right here. I believe Tebow will be better this year coming up than last year. Its sad because I don't believe we are even going to be given the chance to see if he improved.

When the Broncos drafted Tebow, McDaniels said and everyone agreed he was a project. It was going to take 3-4 years. Now we are just giving up?

broncolee
03-18-2012, 04:33 PM
I don't buy the story.

Hasselbeck and Smith have other options besides Denver.

The Broncos would be crazy to draft Weeden in the first round.

I don't think they're going to push hard to get rid of Tebow until 2013, if they don't see a lot of progress from him in 2012.

Legion509
03-18-2012, 04:37 PM
With all due respect (and I do mean that!) for me the Tebow maniacs are the "fans" who simply became Broncos fans because Tebow ended up here, and they really don't care about anything the Broncos do unless it's what's best for Tebow. These same "fans" also heap all praise on Tebow for "carrying" the team to victories and heap scorn on all of the other 52 players for letting Tebow down in a loss regardless of what the reality may have been.

I have complete respect for all Broncos fans who just want what's best for the TEAM regardless of which side of the Tebow debate they're on.


Whats best for the team is to keep Tebow then, took you too the playoffs, and beat Pitts. And you give him no respect. sad.

NewEnglandBronc
03-18-2012, 04:42 PM
Elway as a GM inherited a 2 win team, and got them to the playoffs. How dare you trust his judgement.


Funny you can say this about Elway, but not Tebow. Tebow did more to get the team to the playoffs then Elway.

Butler By'Note
03-18-2012, 04:55 PM
Whats best for the team is to keep Tebow then, took you too the playoffs, and beat Pitts. And you give him no respect. sad.

Tebow was a part of a group that made the playoffs and beat Pittsburgh, at times he played well and at other times he struggled, same as almost every single member of the team. IMO Manning is an upgrade, a huge upgrade at that, so it's a good move for the team if the Broncos can get him. If not then I wouldn't be opposed to them riding with Tebow and hoping he can get better in the offseason.

Butler By'Note
03-18-2012, 04:57 PM
Truth right here. I believe Tebow will be better this year coming up than last year. Its sad because I don't believe we are even going to be given the chance to see if he improved.

When the Broncos drafted Tebow, McDaniels said and everyone agreed he was a project. It was going to take 3-4 years. Now we are just giving up?

The key right there is McDaniels, he's gone now so his assessment isn't valid anymore. The new hierarchy may not agree that Tebow can get there.

NewEnglandBronc
03-18-2012, 05:00 PM
With all due respect (and I do mean that!) for me the Tebow maniacs are the "fans" who simply became Broncos fans because Tebow ended up here, and they really don't care about anything the Broncos do unless it's what's best for Tebow. These same "fans" also heap all praise on Tebow for "carrying" the team to victories and heap scorn on all of the other 52 players for letting Tebow down in a loss regardless of what the reality may have been.

I have complete respect for all Broncos fans who just want what's best for the TEAM regardless of which side of the Tebow debate they're on.


You can't put labels on people. We have:

*Broncos fans who now love Tebow and embrace the things he offers
*Broncos fans who hate Tebow, even if it means wanting the Broncos to LOSE! (this includes people making excuses for our wins)
*Broncos fans who are impartial to Tebow, but want whats best for the *Broncos. (If that means getting PM)

*Tebow fans who now love the Broncos. (Plenty of posters with Tebow in their usernames who offer plenty of good insight on OTHER Broncos players)
*Tebow fans who only love Tebow, and will defend him from haters. (Lots of fans of Tebow were accustomed to ALWAYS WINNING. I mean the kid had one of the most spectacular college careers. How can't people understand the loyalty to this kid.)


As much as you can categorize all the types of opinions, there is one question I have...

If Tebow went on to become this special quarterback some say, and he went to win championships...

Would those original Tebow fans becomes Broncos fans?

Would I be a bad Broncos fan, to say I became a fan because I watched Elway when I was younger?

Tebow brought a ton of excitement to my life. The past few years have been a terrible ordeal where I would sulk every Sunday expecting to lose or drama to break out.

I'd really love for us to continue this roller coaster and see what can happen.

If Tebow is really as bad as some of you say...well then we can finally draft a high pick for a qb. Getting Peyton Manning will prevent us from drafting a good qb for as long as he plays.

:goz:

catsigater
03-18-2012, 05:00 PM
The key right there is McDaniels, he's gone now so his assessment isn't valid anymore. The new hierarchy may not agree that Tebow can get there.
It wasn't even 4 months ago Elway said he would be the starter going into training camp. Is he that feckless that he either feels he has to say things he doesn't believe or switches his position every time the wind blows?

MHSalute
03-18-2012, 05:05 PM
It wasn't even 4 months ago Elway said he would be the starter going into training camp. Is he that feckless that he either feels he has to say things he doesn't believe or switches his position every time the wind blows?

Elway also said, "Anybody that comes in here, when we start training camp, is going to be competing for jobs." Tebow included.

Now if trading Tebow has to happen to land Manning, well things change. If Tebow request a trade because we pursued Manning, well things change.

I have not read or heard of any trade rumors for Tebow...so it seems he is still the starter heading into camp...but things can change.

There was always going to be competition.

catsigater
03-18-2012, 05:10 PM
Elway also said, "Anybody that comes in here, when we start training camp, is going to be competing for jobs." Tebow included.

Now if trading Tebow has to happen to land Manning, well things change. If Tebow request a trade because we pursued Manning, well things change.

I have not read or heard of any trade rumors for Tebow...so it seems he is still the starter heading into camp...but things can change.

There was always going to be competition.
Please look at the bolded quote that I responded to.


The new hierarchy may not agree that Tebow can get there.


My point was if the new hierarchy doesn't think he "can get there," then it was irresponsible to say he would be the starter going into TC.

Yes, I understand it was Manning, and I also understand bringing in competition. But you don't name someone the starter, even in as qualified a fashion as Elway did, if you don't think he can get there.

That would be weak and two-faced.

NewEnglandBronc
03-18-2012, 05:12 PM
I think we all agree Elway needs a class of public relations.

Butler By'Note
03-18-2012, 05:13 PM
It wasn't even 4 months ago Elway said he would be the starter going into training camp. Is he that feckless that he either feels he has to say things he doesn't believe or switches his position every time the wind blows?

There's a massive difference between saying the starting job is someone's going into TC and believeing that he's their franchise QB. Right now all we know is that the Broncos had the chance to get one of the best QB's to ever play and they took the chance, saying what they'll do if that attempt is unsuccessful is just baseless speculation right now.

catsigater
03-18-2012, 05:17 PM
There's a massive difference between saying the starting job is someone's going into TC and believeing that he's their franchise QB. Right now all we know is that the Broncos had the chance to get one of the best QB's to ever play and they took the chance, saying what they'll do if that attempt is unsuccessful is just baseless speculation right now.

Who said anything about being a "franchise QB." Your statement about the current regime not believing he "can get there," was in response to someone saying Tebow was a 3-4 year project and seeing if he could improve, not whether he was a franchise QB.

So yeah, if they don't even think he can get "there," when "there" is simply improving on last year, they had no business saying he'd be the starter going into TC.

Butler By'Note
03-18-2012, 05:26 PM
Who said anything about being a "franchise QB." Your statement about the current regime not believing he "can get there," was in response to someone saying Tebow was a 3-4 year project and seeing if he could improve, not whether he was a franchise QB.

So yeah, if they don't even think he can get "there," when "there" is simply improving on last year, they had no business saying he'd be the starter going into TC.

Sorry but the ultimate goal of every team is to have a franchise QB, and the 3-4 year window would be in relation to getting to the point where he can be a prolific enough of a passer to be a franchise QB.

Improving a small amount isn't "getting there" and wouldn't warrant him keeping the job if there's someone better in camp.

catsigater
03-18-2012, 05:32 PM
Sorry but the ultimate goal of every team is to have a franchise QB, and the 3-4 year window would be in relation to getting to the point where he can be a prolific enough of a passer to be a franchise QB.

Improving a small amount isn't "getting there" and wouldn't warrant him keeping the job if there's someone better in camp.Fair enough, but that means you were addressing a point that wasn't contained in the post you responded too. Apology accepted.

Butler By'Note
03-18-2012, 05:38 PM
Fair enough, but that means you were addressing a point that wasn't contained in the post you responded too. Apology accepted.

Not sure an apology is necessary, I think we're just failing to comprehend what we're each saying, but why not I'll throw a CP at you.

-Rod-
03-18-2012, 05:38 PM
If you are a Broncos fan, you are probably sick of Tebowmania.

If you are a Tebow fan, you probably want to see more support from his team.

A trade is a win-win situation to everyone.

Even if Peyton Manning does not sign with the Broncos, they can still take a quarterback early in the Draft and remove Tebow from the starting job.

A trade would mean someone is interested in Tebow, which means a plan, a vision for him. A general manager and a head coach that believe in him.

Are the Broncos making a mistake? It's up to Tebow. He is the one who must get better, become a franchise quarterback and prove them wrong down the road.

Clearly, there is a conflict between what kind of quarterback Elway wants and the kind of quarterback Tebow is today. The Broncos will keep trying to replace him somehow, and this situation obviously is not good for his development.

catsigater
03-18-2012, 05:41 PM
Not sure an apology is necessary, I think we're just failing to comprehend what we're each saying, but why not I'll throw a CP at you.I was just being a pill, since your last post started off with "sorry." But yeah, I think we were talking across each other. "Civility" CP coming your way, when I can.

Butler By'Note
03-18-2012, 05:42 PM
If you are a Broncos fan, you are probably sick of Tebowmania.

If you are a Tebow fan, you probably want to see more support from his team.

A trade is a win-win situation to everyone.

Even if Peyton Manning does not sign with the Broncos, they can still take a quarterback early in the Draft and remove Tebow from the starting job.

A trade would mean someone is interested in Tebow, which means a plan, a vision for him. A general manager and a head coach that believe in him.

Are the Broncos making a mistake? It's up to Tebow. He is the one who must get better, become a franchise quarterback and prove them wrong down the road.

Clearly, there is a conflict between what kind of quarterback Elway wants and the kind of quarterback Tebow is today. The Broncos will keep trying to replace him somehow, and this situation obviously is not good for his development.

I think this is the most level headed and well stated post I've read on here in awhile! Well said!

LarryDean
03-18-2012, 05:42 PM
I stopped reading right there as if anyone needs to be told anything this article had to say ...

:shake:

johnjoda
03-18-2012, 05:46 PM
I am sure it will be difficult with the brain trust anticipating Manning as a throwing offense to back off that idea.

Here is the thing. The improved running game that Tim contributes to, creates matchup issues in the passing game. The Broncos have to be able to capitalize on those opportunities and keep the D off the field.

My concern is that PM has no mobility and a great arm. TT has great mobility and an average arm. Tim made the Steelers pay for crowding the box. If he could do that consistently there would be no discussion.

Champions are consistent. btw...There are no other HOF QB's available. There usually aren't. We will have to build one.

catsigater
03-18-2012, 05:48 PM
If you are a Broncos fan, you are probably sick of Tebowmania.

If you are a Tebow fan, you probably want to see more support from his team.

A trade is a win-win situation to everyone.

Even if Peyton Manning does not sign with the Broncos, they can still take a quarterback early in the Draft and remove Tebow from the starting job.

A trade would mean someone is interested in Tebow, which means a plan, a vision for him. A general manager and a head coach that believe in him.

Are the Broncos making a mistake? It's up to Tebow. He is the one who must get better, become a franchise quarterback and prove them wrong down the road.

Clearly, there is a conflict between what kind of quarterback Elway wants and the kind of quarterback Tebow is today. The Broncos will keep trying to replace him somehow, and this situation obviously is not good for his development.
I'm more of a Tebow fan than Broncos fan, but I'm not going to follow Tebow to another board. And I don't hold it against Elway if he thinks Tebow just isn't "the guy."

My issue is the mixed signals he sends. I'm not talking about pursuing Manning. I get that. But if they really don't think he's got a decent chance of becoming "the guy," then they need to cut him loose, for the team's sake, if not for Tebow's.

I personally hope he does become the Broncos next great QB, but I haven't seen anything that says someone who doesn't believe he can doesn't have evidence for thinking that way.

shawinkerpoppin
03-18-2012, 05:50 PM
i sure hope weeden is a fast learner.

Tebow Junky
03-18-2012, 05:57 PM
When I first heard about PM and the Broncos, I knew this would end bad.

badaxe
03-18-2012, 06:14 PM
What if our atrocious, terrible, erratic, QB leads us to another playoff appearance, this time AFC Championship Game, and a significantly improved offense with say.... 45% 3rd down conversions and 57% completions?

You think the "Duke" will still want to unload #15?

JayJack
03-18-2012, 06:15 PM
I'm more of a Tebow fan than Broncos fan, but I'm not going to follow Tebow to another board. And I don't hold it against Elway if he thinks Tebow just isn't "the guy."

My issue is the mixed signals he sends. I'm not talking about pursuing Manning. I get that. But if they really don't think he's got a decent chance of becoming "the guy," then they need to cut him loose, for the team's sake, if not for Tebow's.

I personally hope he does become the Broncos next great QB, but I haven't seen anything that says someone who doesn't believe he can doesn't have evidence for thinking that way.

Care to share what "mixed signals" you think were sent? Because IMO, there weren't any.

~When Elway was asked did he think he was any closer to finding his QB of the future? Elway said no. Which was the truth. But the Tebow fans hated that response.

~Elway said QBs are judged on 3rd downs and that Tebow needs to get better on 3rd downs. Tebow fans disliked that statement.

~Elway said that he HOPES that Tebow can become the QB for the next 10 yrs. Elway never said that Tebow is the QB of the future. But the Tebow Fans took that statement all out context and ran with it. Now they're calling Elway a liar.

~Elway has been very impressed with Tebow the person and his intangibles, but he's always been vocal about the areas Tebow needs to improve in.

~Elway said that Tebow has earned the right to be the starter going into Training Camp. Tebow fans didn't want to hear this. They thought he deserved/earned the right to be the starter for the whole season.

~Fox said that if Tebow had to run a normal offense, he'd be screwed. Fox later on had to do some damage control because of the Tebow fans.

Now what I find funny is, when they were being truthful and making these statements, Tebowmania was hoping that they would atleast lie about there feelings and support him publicly. Now they are bashing him for lying, which I really don't know what Elway has lied about.

If you ask me, I think Tebow fans were reaching for anything positive and tried to equate it to Tebow is the future. When FoxWay has never said anything to make anybody believe that Tebow is the future. Tebow fans should blame themselves for the false sense of commitment/security to Tebow vs blaming Elway.

THEdraftnik
03-18-2012, 06:18 PM
Care to share what "mixed signals" you think were sent? Because IMO, there weren't any.

~When Elway was asked did he think he was any closer to finding his QB of the future? Elway said no. Which was the truth. But the Tebow fans hated that response.

~Elway said QBs are judged on 3rd downs and that Tebow needs to get better on 3rd downs. Tebow fans disliked that statement.

~Elway said that he HOPES that Tebow can become the QB for the next 10 yrs. Elway never said that Tebow is the QB of the future. But the Tebow Fans took that statement all out context and ran with it. Now they're calling Elway a liar.

~Elway has been very impressed with Tebow the person and his intangibles, but he's always been vocal about the areas Tebow needs to improve in.

~Elway said that Tebow has earned the right to be the starter going into Training Camp. Tebow fans didn't want to hear this. They thought he deserved/earned the right to be the starter for the whole season.

~Fox said that if Tebow had to run a normal offense, he'd be screwed. Fox later on had to do some damage control because of the Tebow fans.

Now what I find funny is, when they were being truthful and making these statements, Tebowmania was hoping that they would atleast lie about there feelings and support him publicly. Now they are bashing him for lying, which I really don't know what Elway has lied about.

If you ask me, I think Tebow fans were reaching for anything positive and tried to equate it to Tebow is the future. When FoxWay has never said anything to make anybody believe that Tebow is the future. Tebow fans should blame themselves for the false sense of commitment/security to Tebow vs blaming Elway.

The fact that he is trying to replace Tebow before Training camp with a new starter. If you don't mean somegthing, don't say it.

uncoalum
03-18-2012, 06:23 PM
How often does a future HOF QB become available? Had to take a shot.

JayJack
03-18-2012, 06:26 PM
The fact that he is trying to replace Tebow before Training camp with a new starter. If you don't mean somegthing, don't say it.

And that's probably the only thing that Tebow fans have against Elway, as far as telling a lie is concern. Other than that, he's been truthful, but Tebowmania couldn't accept the truth.

THEdraftnik
03-18-2012, 06:37 PM
And that's probably the only thing that Tebow fans have against Elway, as far as telling a lie is concern. Other than that, he's been truthful, but Tebowmania couldn't accept the truth.

And I'm ok with that because Elway was right.

But it's one thing to say a guy needs to improve, it's another to say he will be the starter going into a certain point. I feel it's a line you don't cross. It's not like he didn't know Manning was going to be released either, he knew all along that that was a possible scenario. If you know that their is a scenario where Tebow isn't the starter going into training camp... Then don't say that he will be.

demosthenes9
03-18-2012, 06:54 PM
He doesn't believe in him no sense in putting on some dog and pony show. Whether you want to admit it Tebow, right now, is at best a borderline NFL QB, yes he can run but until he can pass the ball consistently he's nothing more than a fullback. Yes he went 8-5 as a starter last year and threw some terrific passes in the Pittsburgh game but what exactly has he shown you in the NFL that leads you to believe he's the next big thing?


He should have been supportive during the season when Tebow was out there leading the Broncos to the playoffs.

IF, after that, he decided that he didn't want to go forth with Tebow, then he shouldn't have put on that dog and pony show where he explained how downfield passing will yield lower percentages AND that Tebow would be the starter going into training camp. He should have just said that he appreciated what Tebow did for the team, BUT, he felt that they needed to go in a different direction.




As for your last comment, has nothing to do with how you feel, it was more of a point that if Tebow is going to believe he's above all of this then he might want to think about making the charity work that he does his fulltime job.


Or, if he ends up leaving, he can hopefully land with a team who's FO actually knows how to handle things better.

JayJack
03-18-2012, 06:57 PM
And I'm ok with that because Elway was right.

But it's one thing to say a guy needs to improve, it's another to say he will be the starter going into a certain point. I feel it's a line you don't cross. It's not like he didn't know Manning was going to be released either, he knew all along that that was a possible scenario. If you know that their is a scenario where Tebow isn't the starter going into training camp... Then don't say that he will be.

I understand that. But if Elway wouldn't have said anything about Tebow, then whay? All hell would've broke loose. I think it's silly for Tebow fans to hold on to that one lie. Lies are being told all the time, but they don't get magnified like the one towards Tebow.

I can see it now. John, now that the season is over, what is you're stance on Tebow's future. Elway replies: "We are still in the evaluation process." Tebow Fans replies: "EVALUATION PROCESS?!?!?!? What more does Elway need to see from Tebow??? He took us from a 1-4 team to a playoff team and we beat THE #1 DEFENSE IN THE LEAGUE. Elway is just jealous. He's mad because he's not Mr. Denver anymore. Elway is going to mess up his legacy if Tebow isn't the start next YEAR." And it would've went on and on and on.

Your right, Elway probably did now that they would make a run for 18 if he was released. But he had to give the "politically correct" answer because if not, there would've been a riot in Denver. Now me as a person who doesn't like Tebow the QB, saw this a mile away. Tebowmania either honestly didn't see this coming OR they saw it coming and didn't want to accept it.

demosthenes9
03-18-2012, 07:08 PM
Your right, Elway probably did now that they would make a run for 18 if he was released. But he had to give the "politically correct" answer because if not, there would've been a riot in Denver. Now me as a person who doesn't like Tebow the QB, saw this a mile away. Tebowmania either honestly didn't see this coming OR they saw it coming and didn't want to accept it.


Weren't you here on the boards when all/most of the Tebow critics pointed to John's press conference and said "there, see, he's supporting Tebow by naming him the starter ?"

I mean, if you want, I'll dig up the thread and you can see where I and others railed against Elway for such a lame and qualified "endorsement" and the Tebow critics kept on saying that we were wrong, that he was supporting Tebow.

demosthenes9
03-18-2012, 07:15 PM
Your right, Elway probably did now that they would make a run for 18 if he was released. But he had to give the "politically correct" answer because if not, there would've been a riot in Denver. Now me as a person who doesn't like Tebow the QB, saw this a mile away. Tebowmania either honestly didn't see this coming OR they saw it coming and didn't want to accept it.


Weren't you here on the boards when all/most of the Tebow critics pointed to John's press conference and said "there, see, he's supporting Tebow by naming him the starter ?"

I mean, if you want, I'll dig up the thread and you can see where I and others railed against Elway for such a lame and qualified "endorsement" and the Tebow critics kept on saying that we were wrong, that he was supporting Tebow.

demosthenes9
03-18-2012, 07:19 PM
Sorry bout the double post. Forum glitched on me and I can't delete it. :(

KoolBreeze
03-18-2012, 07:22 PM
Weren't you here on the boards when all/most of the Tebow critics pointed to John's press conference and said "there, see, he's supporting Tebow by naming him the starter ?"

I mean, if you want, I'll dig up the thread and you can see where I and others railed against Elway for such a lame and qualified "endorsement" and the Tebow critics kept on saying that we were wrong, that he was supporting Tebow.

Elway has never supported Tebow as QB and never will because Tebow will never be the QB that Elway wants. Most folks can read between the lines and were aware that he was just trying to appease the media/fans. Heck he has done everything but come out and say he doesn't like Tebow at QB. After watching Tebow play the position last season, I don't blame Elway. Tebow is a gamer, I'll give him that, but he will never be a Peyton Manning and that is exactly what Elway wants in his QB.

JayJack
03-18-2012, 07:25 PM
Weren't you here on the boards when all/most of the Tebow critics pointed to John's press conference and said "there, see, he's supporting Tebow by naming him the starter ?"

I mean, if you want, I'll dig up the thread and you can see where I and others railed against Elway for such a lame and qualified "endorsement" and the Tebow critics kept on saying that we were wrong, that he was supporting Tebow.

Some took the comment hard, some took it and said that Tebow will improve and that he'll be the starter game 1. Some said that Tebow doesn't need any competition, others said that if Tebow is gonna be judged off of practice, he's screwed. There were many of comments made. Some took Elways comments for what it is, some took it out of context.