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FL BRONCO
04-18-2012, 11:37 AM
http://www.twitlonger.com/show/h1l5ks
http://www.twitlonger.com/show/h1l6pa

PowderAddict
04-18-2012, 11:37 AM
I'd give them Jarmon for him.

InElwayWeTrust
04-18-2012, 11:38 AM
He's right. We traded him for a guy who didn't even make the team. He was a solid veteran WR and we could have used him last year when Tebow was having to line up at WR.

theMileHighGuy
04-18-2012, 11:38 AM
I'd take him back. He was a solid posession guy. Should not have traded him for Jeremy Jarmon.

BroncoooJohnson
04-18-2012, 11:38 AM
I'd give a Joe Mays :)

-Rod-
04-18-2012, 11:39 AM
I agree with him 100%. Stupid trade that only hurt the Broncos.

CoryWinget81
04-18-2012, 11:40 AM
Wouldnt be opposed to this.

#24 Next Champ
04-18-2012, 11:40 AM
I'd love to have him back now, DO IT EFX!

Remedy
04-18-2012, 11:41 AM
did he rant about that on twitter to?

InsaneBlaze23
04-18-2012, 11:43 AM
Jeremy Jarmon and a bag of pork rinds, for Jabar.

dizzolve
04-18-2012, 11:49 AM
I miss the socks

Drzaius
04-18-2012, 11:53 AM
Get him back. I would be all for it.

Jay3
04-18-2012, 12:00 PM
I thought it was a dumb trade at the time.

Jay3
04-18-2012, 12:01 PM
I think the WR corps should have consisted of Lloyd, Gaffney, D.T. and Decker.

InsaneBlaze23
04-18-2012, 12:04 PM
I think the WR corps should have consisted of Lloyd, Gaffney, D.T. and Decker.

I think it should consist of Brandon Marshall, Eric Decker, Brandon Stokley, and DT.

Den615
04-18-2012, 12:09 PM
I'd say give the Skins a 2013 6th round pick. Or just wait until he is released.

BroncoooJohnson
04-18-2012, 12:10 PM
I think it should consist of Brandon Marshall, Eric Decker, Brandon Stokley, and DT.

How about Brandon Marshall, Brandon Lloyd, DT, Decker, and Stokley. That would be Packer- like in terms of talent.

#24 Next Champ
04-18-2012, 12:11 PM
I think it should consist of Brandon Marshall, Eric Decker, Brandon Stokley, and DT.

Screw Brandon Marshall ...if McD knew how to draft we'd have made off so well from those trades

InsaneBlaze23
04-18-2012, 12:13 PM
How about Brandon Marshall, Brandon Lloyd, DT, Decker, and Stokley. That would be Packer- like in terms of talent.

With Manning at QB, Marshall and Thomas on the outside, Decker (rotating with Stokley) in the slot. That is enough to dominate the league. Imagine it.

Lloyd would get pissed he isn't seeing time. He's on diva status now(after one good season).

Den615
04-18-2012, 12:13 PM
I think it should consist of Brandon Marshall, Eric Decker, Brandon Stokley, and DT.

Not to derail the thread, but Marshall was gone no matter what. The best move McDaniels made during his time here was getting two 2nd round picks for Marshall. There is a reason he is on his 3rd team and his value continues to drop.

I love Marshall BTW. He is so much fun to watch and he comes off as a very likable player through the media. I expect him to do well with Cutler in Chicago, but it was very clear from early on that he wouldn't be a career Bronco.

getlynched47
04-18-2012, 12:13 PM
No thanks.....

Dude offers zero after-the-catch ability.

-Rod-
04-18-2012, 12:18 PM
No thanks.....

Dude offers zero after-the-catch ability.

But he runs good routes and catches the ball. Some receivers offer zero before-the-catch ability.

Yakka27
04-18-2012, 12:19 PM
Never would have drafted Decker and Thomas if we still had Marshall and we knew Lloyd was a stud.

InsaneBlaze23
04-18-2012, 12:20 PM
Never would have drafted Decker and Thomas if we still had Marshall and we knew Lloyd was a stud.

Pff, I'm on Madden status, silence with you logic.:coffee:

Yakka27
04-18-2012, 12:23 PM
Pff, I'm on Madden status, silence with you logic.:coffee:

It did sound pretty nice though. Maybe I'll draft them all and make sure it happens for my fantasy team! :salute:

DarkHorse26
04-18-2012, 12:25 PM
No thanks.....

Dude offers zero after-the-catch ability.

That's not entirely true. He would get that extra half-yard when he would fall down to avoid the hit.

chad72
04-18-2012, 12:28 PM
I think your TE pickups in Tamme and Dreessen will pay off till the chemistry with the outside wideouts gets better. Decker will have the upper hand till chemistry with DT improves for Peyton. Very few in the NFL throw those seam routes as well as Peyton. Brady, Brees and Rodgers and that is about it, IMO. Given the fact that you cant spear TEs in the middle anymore, the TEs you signed will pay huge dividends when they have single coverage on them more often. Peyton will find them.

Chargers - Ron Meeks is their secondary coach, he is a good secondary coach. Both the Colts and Panthers secondary, when Meeks was DC, played good zone but the DT play was atrocious and teams ran on them. Peyton however being familiar with it, will have an advantage, IMO.

Again, when push comes to shove, it is that investment that you made in the TEs will pay off when safety help rolls towards Decker or DT, IMO. Not to mention, Peyton loved Clark and Stokely in the slot, expect your slot guys - TEs, Caldwell, Stokes to put up good numbers. Peyton loves those areas for key 3rd down conversions. However, for TD plays and red zone plays, he likes those outside guys, that is where DT and Decker numbers will be called more. Peyton used to throw more INTs down the middle early in his career and then started using more fade routes and screens etc. to outside wideouts more to cut down on his INTs once Dungy came along.

FL BRONCO
04-18-2012, 12:34 PM
I posted it and then had to go:sad:

Myself, I would love to have him back. If we are going for it all now he is a procuctive reciever who would be a good target for Manning not to mention another vet to help our younger recievers out. I think he could really upgrade our talent right away. If he was a fa I would want to bring him in. As a trade it would depend on what it cost. But I do think he is an instant upgrade to our talent pool and target for Manning and he is right imo we should never have traded him.

BluenOrnge4Life
04-18-2012, 12:37 PM
They won't trade for him. They just traded him last year for a bag of peanuts. trading back for him and giving up more than a bag of peanuts would be... welll... a 'Mcdaniels like' move.

svpearson
04-18-2012, 12:41 PM
I thought it was odd when we let go of him, not a star but a solid WR.

I figured he was maybe a locker room issue or something. Would like to see him back.

FL BRONCO
04-18-2012, 12:47 PM
They won't trade for him. They just traded him last year for a bag of peanuts. trading back for him and giving up more than a bag of peanuts would be... welll... a 'Mcdaniels like' move.

I think to a point you are right, we have more glaring holes to fill if we are going to trade and we did just trade him away last year. However on the other hand the situation is a lot different than it was when we made the trade. Lloyd is no longer hear. We went from a young rebuilding team with a stop gap qb and you know who to a win now "plan A" philosophy. And if it would help us now with plan A that we are committed too, I think if you are smart you treat it as a totally different situation and forget about last year. If you really believe its that good a move that will contribute , you do it. Problem still is that what do you give for him when we have so many other needs. I really wish he was a FA

Den615
04-18-2012, 12:47 PM
The thing that would likely prevent this from happening is the fact that neither Gaffney or Stokley play special teams. It is highly unlikely we carry four receiver who don't play on the kick/punt teams.

So unless Gaffney and Stokley would be competing for the same spot the move wouldn't make much sense.

BluenOrnge4Life
04-18-2012, 12:49 PM
I think to a point you are right, we have more glaring holes to fill if we are going to trade and we did just trade him away last year. However on the other hand the situation is a lot different than it was when we made the trade. Lloyd is no longer hear. We went from a young rebuilding team with a stop gap qb and you know who to a win now "plan A" philosophy. And if it would help us now with plan A that we are committed too, I think if you are smart you treat it as a totally different situation and forget about last year. If you really believe its that good a move that will contribute , you do it. Problem still is that what do you give for him when we have so many other needs. I really wish he was a FA

Well the Problem is we've signed 3 WRS this offseason, so it's pretty crowded at this point. This would of been a solid move before all of that.

ramanboy33
04-18-2012, 12:50 PM
He's right. We traded him for a guy who didn't even make the team. He was a solid veteran WR and we could have used him last year when Tebow was having to line up at WR.

The Gaffney trade was simply a salary dump

FL BRONCO
04-18-2012, 12:54 PM
Well the Problem is we've signed 3 WRS this offseason, so it's pretty crowded at this point. This would of been a solid move before all of that.

Yeah I know you are right, But I keep thinking of Decker in the slot, Gaffney on one side , DT on the other with Manning and our tight ends we would be hard to match up with.

-Rod-
04-18-2012, 01:00 PM
I don't expect Gaffney back in Denver, I think it's obvious he won't be back. But the guy can still play. Gaffney caught 68 passes for 947 yards and 5 touchdowns last season, playing with Rex Grossman and John Beck. He almost became a 1000-yard receiver with those quarterbacks.

Mel B.
04-18-2012, 01:31 PM
I think it should consist of Brandon Marshall, Eric Decker, Brandon Stokley, and DT.


Well in that case I think it should've consisted of B. Marshall, D. Thomas, E. Royal, E. Decker (and B. Lloyd)...

With J. Cutler @ QB, P. Hillis & T. Bell @ RB and T. Scheffler @ TE.


But who would've been genius enough to have had the opportunity to have made that a reality!

Inertia
04-18-2012, 07:25 PM
Apparently he is on the trading block over some tweets he made. He did well here, who would support bringing him back? We could use a extra vet at WR.

BroncoFanBoy
04-18-2012, 07:28 PM
Yes please. We shouldn't have traded him in the first place.

VADER72
04-18-2012, 07:30 PM
I would love to have him back. I think he and Manning would gel fast in the middle of the field.

SoundsOfSuccess
04-18-2012, 07:31 PM
Likely wouldn't make the team, no thanks..

BroncoFanBoy
04-18-2012, 07:32 PM
Likely wouldn't make the team, no thanks..

I think he would have a way better shot at making the team than Matt Willis does...

THEdraftnik
04-18-2012, 07:33 PM
I loved Gaff when he was here... But we don't need 1 Stokely, let alone 2.

BroncoooJohnson
04-18-2012, 07:34 PM
Likely wouldn't make the team, no thanks..

He almost tipped 1000 yards with Grossman, and our 4th receiver is either Wilis or Stokley.

BroncoooJohnson
04-18-2012, 07:35 PM
I loved Gaff when he was here... But we don't need 1 Stokely, let alone 2.

Gaffney had a career year last season, it's a bit different

SoundsOfSuccess
04-18-2012, 07:37 PM
I think he would have a way better shot at making the team than Matt Willis does...

Thomas
Decker
Caldwell
Stokely
Willis/Dell/Goodwin/Hill/Grisham/Gaffney/UDFA

Not much of a point in giving anything up for his name entering the race for that last slot..

THEdraftnik
04-18-2012, 07:37 PM
Gaffney had a career year last season, it's a bit different

I know, but he would be the 3rd or 4th guy here. And I'd like to keep our young talent instead of bringing in more vets. Matt Willis is a special teams stud and I like to see more of Mark Dell.

BroncoooJohnson
04-18-2012, 07:38 PM
I know, but he would be the 3rd or 4th guy here. And I'd like to keep our young talent instead of bringing in more vets. Matt Willis is a special teams stud and I like to see more of Mark Dell.

Would he not be better than Stokley? Maybe it's just me that thinks that.

BroncoFanBoy
04-18-2012, 07:39 PM
Thomas
Decker
Caldwell
Stokely
Willis/Dell/Goodwin/Hill/Grisham/Gaffney/UDFA

Not much of a point in giving anything up for his name entering the race for that last slot..
I'd take Gaffney over Stokley, easily. Even if Stokley's played with Manning before.

broncos SB2010
04-18-2012, 07:40 PM
Gaffney had a career year last season, it's a bit different

Bringing him in as a FA would be good, trading for him is another story. Maybe a 7th rounder would be ok or just send them back Jarmon in exchange.

SoundsOfSuccess
04-18-2012, 07:41 PM
I'd take Gaffney over Stokley, easily. Even if Stokley's played with Manning before.

Stokely isn't going anywhere, bud.

THEdraftnik
04-18-2012, 07:43 PM
Would he not be better than Stokley? Maybe it's just me that thinks that.

I think Stokely is done. But EFX apparently disagrees.

FabrizioHC
04-18-2012, 07:44 PM
Wouldn't mind it

InsaneBlaze23
04-18-2012, 07:54 PM
Might as well make out slogan:
Denver Broncos, where if you was cut or traded by McDaniels, we will sign you.

one5beast
04-18-2012, 07:56 PM
Might as well make out slogan:
Denver Broncos, where if you was cut or traded by McDaniels, we will sign you.

Except he didn't get trade by McDaniels.

InsaneBlaze23
04-18-2012, 07:58 PM
Except he didn't get trade by McDaniels.

Well then he wont be a Bronco again.

You can only be signed if McDaniels is the reason you are not here.

BroncoFanBoy
04-18-2012, 08:23 PM
Stokely isn't going anywhere, bud.

Didn't say he would... I just think Gaff's better.

-Rod-
04-18-2012, 08:37 PM
I loved Gaff when he was here... But we don't need 1 Stokely, let alone 2.

Stokley: 35 years old. 1 reception for 7 yards in 2011.

Gaffney: 31 years old. 68 receptions for 947 yards in 2011.

Good comparison...

Spitfire Riggz
04-18-2012, 09:43 PM
Holy crap, did not realize he almost had a 1000 yard receiving year

Atwnbroncfan
04-18-2012, 10:05 PM
I think he would have a way better shot at making the team than Matt Willis does...

Doubt it Willis can play ST, Gaffney can't.

Ahrum
04-18-2012, 10:27 PM
Doubt it Willis can play ST, Gaffney can't.

Willis is a pretty standout gunner, IMO.

DT, Decker, Gaffney, Caldwell, Stokley and Willis is alright in my book.

But we'd have to trade for Gaffney and that ain' happening. So it's all pipe-dreams.

Inertia
04-30-2012, 11:57 AM
Now that we didn't draft any WRs.... Go get Jabar!

The Experience
04-30-2012, 01:45 PM
Would be a great pickup.

He is certainly better than Stokely and Willis and would probably be better than Caldwell...

-Rod-
04-30-2012, 02:13 PM
The Redskins even took his jersey number away from him. According to Griffin, it was a decision made by the organization.

ayacouby
04-30-2012, 02:24 PM
The Redskins even took his jersey number away from him. According to Griffin, it was a decision made by the organization.

I dislike how cruel shanahan can get towards players. I really dislike that about him.

Joshecalpoly
04-30-2012, 03:46 PM
Would love gaffney as I wouldn't have minded getting Hillis

shawinkerpoppin
04-30-2012, 03:50 PM
What's going on? Gaffney getting cut or traded? If so i knew either him or moss would be out i just thought it would be moss since he cost more and was less productive last season.

SDSU#1
05-01-2012, 08:25 AM
Redskins released WR Jabar Gaffney.
The moves clears $2.65M in salary off the books. Gaffney caught a career-high 68 passes for 947 yards and five touchdowns last season, but offered little after the catch. He became expendable after the Skins committed nearly $30M guaranteed to Pierre Garcon and Josh Morgan. Gaffney's bizarre April Twitter rant surely didn't help matters. The Patriots were considered likely to be interested in Gaffney if he hit the open market, but that was before they retained Deion Branch and Chad Ochocinco, and signed Anthony Gonzalez and Donte' Stallworth. With at least 50 catches in each of the past three seasons, the 31-year-old Gaffney should find a new home soon.
Source: Jason Cole on Twitter


Jabar isn't flashy at anything, but he's experienced and productive. I think he would be a safe pickup for us and provide excellent depth. I know he has had his Twitter moments, but we didn't really address the WR position in the draft and he's better than Bubba Caldwell and Stokley.

BroncoooJohnson
05-01-2012, 08:28 AM
I wish, probably won't happen just because EFX doesn't want to admit a mistake. If they made the move my respect for them would be bolstered, though. It would show that they care more about winning than looking good (which they have showed already)

InsaneBlaze23
05-01-2012, 08:32 AM
Too many good wide outs already on the team, it's already a battle for a position on the team.
Jabar is good, but not really needed at this point. Unless we want to drop Caldwell for him.

broncocrazy7
05-01-2012, 08:38 AM
No thanks, alrdy have a dozen wideouts on the team and would rather have any of them, we need to roll with some youth. Btw his twitter rants a while back didnt scare you away from this guy?

4th Amigo
05-01-2012, 08:40 AM
I wouldn't mind it, he was a decent reciever for us, but we have alot of WR's, so I doubt they call him.

Den615
05-01-2012, 08:43 AM
50+ catches for three years straight, I wouldn't mind having him back. A lot just depends on how much Stokley has left...if he can still play we wouldn't need Gaffney.

BluenOrnge4Life
05-01-2012, 08:58 AM
I'd bring him back to camp and see how he does. If nothing else, it would promote competition to have a veteran there.

Broncosinindy
05-01-2012, 09:01 AM
guy runs great routes. I think we need more emphasis on the future. id pass but not because he can't play.

bronx_2003
05-01-2012, 09:41 AM
I don't normally start these SIGN HIM threads but we need another WR and he is a proven, solid veteran.

Hopefully we bring him in

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d828c8168/article/jabar-gaffney-released-by-washington-redskins?module=HP11_headline_stack

Turf Nazi
05-01-2012, 09:42 AM
Go get him EFX. He will make an instant contribution on offense.

InsaneBlaze23
05-01-2012, 09:43 AM
http://forums.denverbroncos.com/showthread.php?212337-Bring-back-Jabar!

bronx_2003
05-01-2012, 09:49 AM
http://forums.denverbroncos.com/showthread.php?212337-Bring-back-Jabar!

My bad ! 10 c

AirMax
05-01-2012, 09:54 AM
stokelys old and washed up we dont need him or gaffney. stokely wont make the final 53

bronx_2003
05-01-2012, 10:02 AM
stokelys old and washed up we dont need him or gaffney. stokely wont make the final 53

We have 2 good receivers, DT and Decker

Caldwell is unknown, Stokeley is ageing, Willis has never stepped up and looked poor last year, Jason Hill is a camp tryout

What if one goes down ?

Gaffney had almost 1000 yards last season with poor QB play

Pruke
05-01-2012, 10:28 AM
Loooooose canon....

DenverBlood
05-01-2012, 10:37 AM
Loooooose canon....

How do you figure?

DenverBlood
05-01-2012, 10:38 AM
stokelys old and washed up we dont need him or gaffney. stokely wont make the final 53

Yeah who needs a receiver with 67 receptions for nearly 1,000 yards and 5 td's. That's terrible. :rolleyes:


Bring him in EFX!!!

BroncoFanBoy
05-01-2012, 10:40 AM
Gaffney did say he would love to come back. We could give Peyton another weapon. Bring him in!

tonytheemo
05-01-2012, 11:20 AM
Broncos should really bring him back to compete in training camp. He is better than Stokely at this point in their careers. He has been consistently productive, having a career season last year. He does not have overly impressive athleticism imo, but he is savvy and i think he could benefit the young wrs we have on our roster.

The Experience
05-01-2012, 11:29 AM
Gaffney is an immediate upgrade over Caldwell, Stokely and Willis. He had almost 1,000 yds with Rex Grossman and John freakin Beck throwing to him.

He would be relatively cheap, and would probably want to come back.

ERoyal248
05-01-2012, 11:55 AM
Yes, but i doubt we do sign him.

ebsoria
05-01-2012, 12:00 PM
http://forums.denverbroncos.com/showthread.php?212337-Bring-back-Jabar!


My bad ! 10 c

"Search" is still your friend. Your threads are merged now.

-Rod-
05-01-2012, 12:02 PM
The Patriots should sign Gaffney and release Chad Johnson.

FL BRONCO
05-01-2012, 12:19 PM
I don't remember him getting into any real trouble. So he was going through a divorce and lost it on twitter if it was him, don't really care. Unless Elway and Fox think he is a locker room cancer, he would add another weapon to PM arsenal and I think Decker in the slot, with Gaffney and DT would be an awesome combination, let the young guys learn and compete and lets give Pm some weapons. I doubt he would be very expensive at this point and look at what he did last year with Krappy qb's and offense. I think is an upgrade right away

FL BRONCO
05-01-2012, 12:20 PM
The Patriots should sign Gaffney and release Chad Johnson.

If I were the Jets I'd already be calling

theMileHighGuy
05-01-2012, 12:24 PM
Coach Shanny is so stupid... I mean having a rookie to acclimate to the NFL, the receiver you want is Jabar Gaffney...

Man I wish we didn't sign stokes.

sab30
05-01-2012, 02:21 PM
A perfect fit....veteran talent that with just under 1000 yards proves he can still play....

#87Birdman
05-01-2012, 02:23 PM
http://forums.denverbroncos.com/showthread.php?211568-Jabar-Gaffney

There is already a thread for it. I like him but I think we are developing a nice young core with stokley being the mentor.

SoCaliBroncos87
05-01-2012, 04:09 PM
This would be a good pickup. He was one of our better receivers when he was traded. I would not be unhappy if we picked him up.

BroncosFanAddict23
05-01-2012, 07:07 PM
I can't find a reason to justify it.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
05-01-2012, 09:55 PM
Coach Shanny is so stupid... I mean having a rookie to acclimate to the NFL, the receiver you want is Jabar Gaffney...

Man I wish we didn't sign stokes.

Stokes hasn't played in two years. I'm not convinced he'll make the final roster. He was slow here two years ago and he hasn't played since he was in Seattle in 10'? I don't get all the hype.

Broncos-R-Great
05-01-2012, 11:02 PM
What a crappy move by the Redskins, to wait until after the draft to cut him, they knew they didn't want him back, why not cut before the draft when it would've been easier for him to sign somewhere.

Spitfire Riggz
05-02-2012, 12:51 AM
What a crappy move by the Redskins, to wait until after the draft to cut him, they knew they didn't want him back, why not cut before the draft when it would've been easier for him to sign somewhere.

That was a total d-move by them. We could have signed him to be our slot/2nd receiver instead of Stokes

DOMAN8R
05-02-2012, 02:48 AM
I would still sign him and say the battle is between Stokley and Gaffney.......PM would just have to accept the facts if JG beat out his friend Stokley......

yaz96
05-02-2012, 08:25 AM
Stokes will be useful in TC, in helping to mentor the new guys, but if he gets beaten out by Gaffney or whoever, just means his time is done.

Hope we give Gaff a chance.

shawinkerpoppin
05-02-2012, 09:21 AM
I would still sign him and say the battle is between Stokley and Gaffney.......PM would just have to accept the facts if JG beat out his friend Stokley......

i dont think gaffeny vs stokley is even a competition.

soloking
05-02-2012, 01:51 PM
Jason La Canfora ‏ @JasonLaCanfora

WR Jabar Gaffney has agreed to 2yr deal with the Pats. Released by Skins this week.
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canadiansbronco
05-02-2012, 02:00 PM
Jason La Canfora ‏ @JasonLaCanfora

WR Jabar Gaffney has agreed to 2yr deal with the Pats. Released by Skins this week.
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To bad he would of been great here

-Rod-
05-02-2012, 02:04 PM
An obvious move.

yaz96
05-02-2012, 03:16 PM
Jason La Canfora ‏ @JasonLaCanfora

WR Jabar Gaffney has agreed to 2yr deal with the Pats. Released by Skins this week.
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And the rich just keep getting richer.

wow.

flosstein
05-02-2012, 04:59 PM
And the rich just keep getting richer.

wow.

Not really, they have 2 over the hill possession guys and 1 over the hill primadonna. Their weapons are still Hernandez, Gronk, and Welker. Gaff may not have even made the team here.

Awesomo 2000
05-02-2012, 06:37 PM
Not really, they have 2 over the hill possession guys and 1 over the hill primadonna. Their weapons are still Hernandez, Gronk, and Welker. Gaff may not have even made the team here.

Lloyd
Gaffney
Welker
Gronk
Hernandez

How is that not impressive? Gaffney's the "weakest" one of the group, and he's a solid 2nd receiver.

flosstein
05-02-2012, 08:13 PM
Lloyd
Gaffney
Welker
Gronk
Hernandez

How is that not impressive? Gaffney's the "weakest" one of the group, and he's a solid 2nd receiver.

Still looks the same as what I said. Welker, Gronk, and Hernandez. Lloyd can catch yes, but he's not a threat. Gaffney, same thing. Both are good possession WR's with good hands, but their separation skill is not what it was. When we play them, I'm not gonna be worried about containing Lloyd or Gaffney as I know every DB on our team can cover them. Personally I think our WR corp is better. But they have better TE's.