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Peyton&Eli_fan
05-23-2012, 09:59 AM
John Elway ‏@johnelway

We’ve acquired FB Chris Gronkowski from Indianapolis in exchange for CB Cassius Vaughn. …
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COBronc78
05-23-2012, 09:59 AM
Per John Elway


We’ve acquired FB Chris Gronkowski from Indianapolis in exchange for CB Cassius Vaughn. …

soloking
05-23-2012, 10:01 AM
http://blog.denverbroncos.com/denverbroncos/broncos-trade-for-chris-gronkowski/

ENGLEWOOD, Colo. – The Broncos have acquired fullback Chris Gronkowski in a trade with the Indianapolis Colts in exchange for cornerback Cassius Vaughn, the team announced on Wednesday.

“We have a lot of depth in our secondary and this was an opportunity for us to add a quality fullback to our roster,” Executive Vice President of Football Operations John Elway announced via Twitter.

Gronkowski has played 21 games during his career with Dallas (2010) and Indianapolis (2011). He’s gained 17 yards on five carries and 35 yards on seven receptions, including a receiving touchdown.

Chris is one of three Gronkowski brothers currently on NFL rosters along with Rob (New England) and Dan (Cleveland), who spent the 2010 season with the Broncos. He played college football at Maryland (2005-06), overlapping with Dan, before transferring to Arizona, where he played with Rob (2007-09).

They are they looking to become the fifth set of brothers to play for the Broncos in the regular season, joining Champ and Boss Bailey, Albert and Paul Carmichael, Eldon and William Danenhauer and Dave and Doug Widell.

Gronkowski played both fullback and linebacker during college – in addition to spending a year on the baseball team at Arizona.

Vaughn, who joined the team as a college free agent in 2010, played 22 games and registered 22 tackles with one interception that he returned for a touchdown.

-Stuart Zaas

Tags: Chris Gronkowski

cmarquez
05-23-2012, 10:01 AM
John Elway ‏@johnelway
We’ve acquired FB Chris Gronkowski from Indianapolis in exchange for CB Cassius Vaughn. …

getlynched47
05-23-2012, 10:01 AM
NOOOOO!!! I didn't wanna lose Cassius Vaughn :(

D_Broncs_913
05-23-2012, 10:03 AM
No!!! I actually liked Vaughn. He had value at KR and Nickel. So I'm guessing we're cutting Larsen?

BluenOrnge4Life
05-23-2012, 10:03 AM
Nice. We needed a fullback and another teammate of Manning's is good.

bronx_2003
05-23-2012, 10:03 AM
He was gonna be cut anyway, this FB probably will be too

ERoyal248
05-23-2012, 10:03 AM
Damn, we got a lot of depth at CB, but i liked Vaughn, best of luck in Indy...

The Experience
05-23-2012, 10:04 AM
Eh, Gronkoswki won't even make the team

yaz96
05-23-2012, 10:05 AM
Elway has a problem understanding this "trade value" thing, doesn't he?

COBronc78
05-23-2012, 10:05 AM
Even if he wasn't traded, I just don't see how Cassius was going to make the roster.

Bailey, Porter, Florence, Harris, Bolden, Sydquan, Cassius.

Cassius was on the bubble for sure, glad we got something for him

yaz96
05-23-2012, 10:06 AM
Another Gronkowski to be cast off later?

Peyton&Eli_fan
05-23-2012, 10:07 AM
He never got to play with Peyton in Indy, correct?

rmac15
05-23-2012, 10:07 AM
no way he would make the roster any ways...Guy sucks at coverage...got burnt every SINGLE game last year...finally had to bench the scrub...And we got a scrub TE...all good!!!

berlownacyo7s
05-23-2012, 10:07 AM
Now the Broncos have had 2 of the Gronks. If only we could get our hands on that third one...

Good move though. Vaughn wasn't gonna make the 53 and we needed a FB.

AdamWeberOrBust
05-23-2012, 10:08 AM
I'm guessing this is one of the many Gronk brothers?

Is he any good?

getlynched47
05-23-2012, 10:09 AM
Even if he wasn't traded, I just don't see how Cassius was going to make the roster.

Bailey, Porter, Florence, Harris, Bolden, Sydquan, Cassius.

Cassius was on the bubble for sure, glad we got something for him

I feel that Cassius Vaughn was on the verge of becoming a solid starter. I'm sure he was ahead of Thompson, Bolden, and maybe Chris Harris.

Oh, and don't be too excited for Chris Gronkowski. He's a scrub:

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/thehuddle/post/2010/10/chris-gronkowski-inactive-for-cowboys-after-missing-block-that-led-to-tony-romos-injury/1#.T70ZQ9yrnNU


Dallas Cowboys FB Chris Gronkowski may have paid a big price on Sunday for a costly missed block last week.

Gronkowski, who missed a block on New York Giants LB Michael Boley last Sunday on a play that ended with Tony Romo's broken left clavicle, was inactive for the Cowboys' game against the Jacksonville Jaguars.

He appeared to be a healthy scratch, as he wasn't listed on the team's injury report.

Romo is out for 6-8 weeks -- and possibly the entire season if the Cowboys don't improve soon -- after being hit by Boley.

Gronkowski has played in five games this season for Dallas with two starts.

ERoyal248
05-23-2012, 10:10 AM
No!!! I actually liked Vaughn. He had value at KR and Nickel. So I'm guessing we're cutting Larsen?

Larsen signed with the Pats.

thuglife
05-23-2012, 10:10 AM
Awesome trade I love it. Vaughn was gonna get cut anyways

CinnaMunMun
05-23-2012, 10:10 AM
Elway has a problem understanding this "trade value" thing, doesn't he?

Backup CB for an average FB. Sounds good to me.


no way he would make the roster any ways...Guy sucks at coverage...got burnt every SINGLE game last year...finally had to bench the scrub...And we got a scrub TE...all good!!!

This Gronk is a FB.

AdamWeberOrBust
05-23-2012, 10:10 AM
No!!! I actually liked Vaughn. He had value at KR and Nickel. So I'm guessing we're cutting Larsen?

Larsen plays for the Patriots now, bro.

AdamWeberOrBust
05-23-2012, 10:13 AM
Eh, Gronkoswki won't even make the team

I know right? He has to battle the awesome might of Austin Sylvester.

berlownacyo7s
05-23-2012, 10:14 AM
Another Josh McDaniels guy being shown the door... Oh well, the only FB we have right now is that Sylvester guy. At least now Gronk will give him some competition. I thought he was pretty solid while he was in Dallas. Until he missed that block and got Romo injured that is. Hopefully that doesn't happen again...

rmac15
05-23-2012, 10:15 AM
I feel that Cassius Vaughn was on the verge of becoming a solid starter. I'm sure he was ahead of Thompson, Bolden, and maybe Chris Harris.

Oh, and don't be too excited for Chris Gronkowski. He's a scrub:

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/thehuddle/post/2010/10/chris-gronkowski-inactive-for-cowboys-after-missing-block-that-led-to-tony-romos-injury/1#.T70ZQ9yrnNU

you know that Cassius did get benched last year right? guy sucked at coverage...rather have a gallon of milk than him on this team.

and opps my bad i figured all gronks where TE beasts!!!

jonathanrivers
05-23-2012, 10:15 AM
I feel that Cassius Vaughn was on the verge of becoming a solid starter. I'm sure he was ahead of Thompson, Bolden, and maybe Chris Harris.

Oh, and don't be too excited for Chris Gronkowski. He's a scrub:

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/thehuddle/post/2010/10/chris-gronkowski-inactive-for-cowboys-after-missing-block-that-led-to-tony-romos-injury/1#.T70ZQ9yrnNU

We must have watched a different Cassius Vaughn and Chris Harris play last year...

JW7
05-23-2012, 10:16 AM
I feel that Cassius Vaughn was on the verge of becoming a solid starter. I'm sure he was ahead of Thompson, Bolden, and maybe Chris Harris.

Oh, and don't be too excited for Chris Gronkowski. He's a scrub:

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/thehuddle/post/2010/10/chris-gronkowski-inactive-for-cowboys-after-missing-block-that-led-to-tony-romos-injury/1#.T70ZQ9yrnNU

Hahahahaha. Guy misses one block and is labeled a scrub?

Come on man. I'll admit that I don't know anything about the guy but I know that we have needed a FB for a long time. We are stacked at corner. Although I like Vaughn, I believe he was expendable and trading him for a potential starting FB is a solid move.

BluenOrnge4Life
05-23-2012, 10:16 AM
Some of you guys fall way too in love with certain players because you saw them looking good in camp or whatever reason.

This is surprising? We brought in 2 free agent Cbs, cut the #2 guy last year, & drafted a CB in the 4th - who would've been a 1st-early 2nd round pick if he didn't tear his acl. We still have youth in Syd'QUan & Chris Harris who they really feel good about.

Stop falling in love with every backup on the roster. If this TEAM is going to win a championship, a lot of more players will likely come and go.

Cyrend
05-23-2012, 10:21 AM
Vaughn was not going to make the roster anyways. Champ, Porter, and Bolden are locks. Chris Harris has a very good shot based on last years play. That means the 5th CB spot (ie, the depth spot) would be between Florence, Vaughn, and Syd. Florence was just signed, and Syd played great last year in camp before he was injured. Vaughn is obviously the odd man out.

The most interesting thing about this move for me is not the battle in the secondary, but for the fullback/h-back. This move makes things very interesting for players like Mario Fannin and Virgil Green who may not make the cuts for their respective positions but may have a shot at the fullback/h-back spot.

getlynched47
05-23-2012, 10:24 AM
Hahahahaha. Guy misses one block and is labeled a scrub?

Come on man. I'll admit that I don't know anything about the guy but I know that we have needed a FB for a long time. We are stacked at corner. Although I like Vaughn, I believe he was expendable and trading him for a potential starting FB is a solid move.

We do need a fullback. But we settled on a below-average fullback, which I'm not okay with. Spencer Larsen 2.0

I'm not upset or anything that we got rid of Cassius Vaughn. I knew it was going to come down to a numbers game at cornerback. I just get the feeling that he's going to be a very solid player for the Colts. Good for them.

Atwnbroncfan
05-23-2012, 10:25 AM
Elway has a problem understanding this "trade value" thing, doesn't he?

What value does a CB who can't tackle and gets burned in PRESEASON have? Not to mention coming off a nasty injury.

Gronk may be cut, but Elway flipped a position with too much depth with a position with no depth. It's a bit more balanced and now CBs have more opportunity to battle.

350legend
05-23-2012, 10:25 AM
I like C V, however getting a big guy like that with good feet is a nice move on the broncos, we have enough good depth @ CB to make that move!! 10-6 or 11-5 is where i see us this coming season!! :goz:

InElwayWeTrust
05-23-2012, 10:25 AM
With all the CB's we brought in, Vaughn was on the bubble and likely wasn't going to make the team. So instead of cutting him for nothing, we get a player at a position we are very weak at. The FO obviously likes Gronk, do lets see if he's any good. I'm willing to bet if we had both Vaughn and Gronk on the team this year Gronk would make more of an impact because of our depth at Corner.

Good trade EFX! :salute: While I am a little sad to see Vaughn go, I'm glad they traded him and not SydQuan.

crash123go
05-23-2012, 10:26 AM
Even if he wasn't traded, I just don't see how Cassius was going to make the roster.

Bailey, Porter, Florence, Harris, Bolden, Sydquan, Cassius.

Cassius was on the bubble for sure, glad we got something for him
Vaughn was gonna make it before sydquan, Nobody likes to remember sydquan ruptured his Achilles which is the MOST devastating injury in the NFL and has a return rate of like 15%

ERoyal248
05-23-2012, 10:27 AM
Well, let's see.

Champ, Porter, Harris, Bolden, Florence are all probably locks.

Last spot would of been down to Syd, Vaughn, Judie.

Vaughn had some moments but got burned a lot, no problem trading him for a FB when we don't have one on the roster.

Cyanade
05-23-2012, 10:27 AM
Good trade, we have plenty of depth at CB without Vaughn and needed a FB.

muse
05-23-2012, 10:30 AM
Bwahahahahaha, deja vu much? Although at least we didn't spend a 2nd/future 1st on Vaughn...

dizzolve
05-23-2012, 10:31 AM
Long live Squid in Denver

Vaughn and Squid are somewhat similar in my estimation. Not happy bout losing Vaughn nor about the FB but heck, it's so early.

I hope we don't dispose of Squid so easily

jonathanrivers
05-23-2012, 10:33 AM
Champ, Porter, Harris, Bolden, Florence ---> that's the group we're probably rolling with folks.

I know everyone's optimistic about Bolden, but I'm finding a common theme in that some folks think he's going to play more of a role than Harris and Florence. I would love to be wrong, because it means we would have a SICK secondary...but there's no way Bolden plays over Chris Harris (who was a stud last season for a rookie) or Florence (who we paid 4 mil a year to come here).

Anything is possible. But you can't assume a draft pick is going to be a "lock" at a certain spot on the depth chart over 2 relatively proven NFL corners (one of whom was a starter, the other of whom saw SIGNIFICANT time at nickel).

I'm going to copy this to a text file so I don't have to type it for the 20th time when it comes up again.

broncos SB2010
05-23-2012, 10:34 AM
Vaughn wouldn't have made the team anyway and I think this moves shows the Broncos may be running more 2 RB sets than Manning has run before. As I have said before, I think they take the passing game from Indy and Fox' running game to make a mix of the 2 schemes.

getlynched47
05-23-2012, 10:36 AM
Long live Squid in Denver

Vaughn and Squid are somewhat similar in my estimation. Not happy bout losing Vaughn nor about the FB but heck, it's so early.

I hope we don't dispose of Squid so easily

Squid's time is coming soon. I do like him, but an Achilles tear to a player already lacking speed is devastating. I don't think Squid will regain form.

InsaneBlaze23
05-23-2012, 10:38 AM
No!!! I actually liked Vaughn. He had value at KR and Nickel. So I'm guessing we're cutting Larsen?

Larsen is already gone. He's a Patriot.(Sorry if someone already mention this, didn't feel like reading past page one of this thread)

Anyways I guess it's to make room, the secondary is kinda crowed I suppose.

Remedy
05-23-2012, 10:39 AM
Gronkowski is a 6'2 240 pound undrafted full back. He was signed by the Cowboys in 2010. He then signed on with the Colts for the 2011 season playing in a full back role for both teams.

He was played 21 games gaining 17 yards on five carries and 35 yards on seven receptions with one touchdown.

Grabbed that from the mile high report (http://www.milehighreport.com/2012/5/23/3038970/denver-broncos-trade-cb-cassius-vaughn-for-colts-fb-chris-gronkowski)

soloking
05-23-2012, 10:47 AM
http://photos.denverpost.com/mediacenter/2012/05/photos-denver-broncos-trade-for-indianapolis-colts-chris-gronkowski/36258/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter#7

roushmartin6
05-23-2012, 11:03 AM
Vaughn was gonna make it before sydquan, Nobody likes to remember sydquan ruptured his Achilles which is the MOST devastating injury in the NFL and has a return rate of like 15%

Its not as devasting as it used to be thanks to modern medicine. A lot of players have had achilles injuries and have made it back.

Broncoholic3233
05-23-2012, 11:06 AM
Elway has a problem understanding this "trade value" thing, doesn't he?

Please, explain...

#87Birdman
05-23-2012, 11:11 AM
Please, explain...

Duh... Didn't you know the point system that goes something like this.

CB worth 210 points plus the letter V in his last name is an additional 20 points plus some playing time gets him 47.5 points plus being a bronco gets him 200 points, and being a fan favorite nets another 5000 points. So Vaughn's total points comes to 5,477.5

Now for Gronk he is a FB and that is worth 10 points, and being the brother of the gronk in NE nets him 50 points, but nobody really knowing who he is... Well that is -100 points so his value is -40 points.

That makes the loss on the trade value at around 5,517.5 points that we lost which is in the range of a couple first round picks that we should have also gotten on top of the trade :D

jM916
05-23-2012, 11:11 AM
Pointless trade. We will see if he can produce. Larsen was a loss IMO. I liked him alot.

Broncoholic3233
05-23-2012, 11:12 AM
Duh... Didn't you know the point system that goes something like this.

CB worth 210 points plus the letter V in his last name is an additional 20 points plus some playing time gets him 47.5 points plus being a bronco gets him 200 points, and being a fan favorite nets another 5000 points. So Vaughn's total points comes to 5,477.5

Now for Gronk he is a FB and that is worth 10 points, and being the brother of the gronk in NE nets him 50 points, but nobody really knowing who he is... Well that is -100 points so his value is -40 points.

That makes the loss on the trade value at around 5,517.5 points that we lost which is in the range of a couple first round picks that we should have also gotten on top of the trade :D

:jawdrop: Oh damn. :(

jaytea11
05-23-2012, 11:13 AM
I feel that Cassius Vaughn was on the verge of becoming a solid starter. I'm sure he was ahead of Thompson, Bolden, and maybe Chris Harris.

Oh, and don't be too excited for Chris Gronkowski. He's a scrub:

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/thehuddle/post/2010/10/chris-gronkowski-inactive-for-cowboys-after-missing-block-that-led-to-tony-romos-injury/1#.T70ZQ9yrnNU

Pump the brakes bro!!! everyone is entitled to their opinion, but thinking he was going to surpass Harris who proved to be a very good nickel corner and tackler is way over the top.

InsaneBlaze23
05-23-2012, 11:14 AM
Duh... Didn't you know the point system that goes something like this.

CB worth 210 points plus the letter V in his last name is an additional 20 points plus some playing time gets him 47.5 points plus being a bronco gets him 200 points, and being a fan favorite nets another 5000 points. So Vaughn's total points comes to 5,477.5

Now for Gronk he is a FB and that is worth 10 points, and being the brother of the gronk in NE nets him 50 points, but nobody really knowing who he is... Well that is -100 points so his value is -40 points.

That makes the loss on the trade value at around 5,517.5 points that we lost which is in the range of a couple first round picks that we should have also gotten on top of the trade :D

He gains another 100 points because his other brother Dan played for Denver.

BroncoFanBoy
05-23-2012, 11:16 AM
I liked Vaughn... Hopefully Gronkowski is good...

#87Birdman
05-23-2012, 11:17 AM
He gains another 100 points because his other brother Dan played for Denver.

True I should have calculated that in, so they I guess there is a mid 4th or 5th that I can give back to them lol.

DenBroFan22
05-23-2012, 11:20 AM
You got the wrong Gronk, Elway!

crash123go
05-23-2012, 11:20 AM
Its not as devasting as it used to be thanks to modern medicine. A lot of players have had achilles injuries and have made it back.

Lol is that why when DT just tore his analyst were saying IF he makes it back, it's the worst injury to try and come back from minus a broken back

Broncoholic3233
05-23-2012, 11:23 AM
Lol is that why when DT just tore his analyst were saying IF he makes it back, it's the worst injury to try and come back from minus a broken back

DT made it back just fine, didn't he?

crash123go
05-23-2012, 11:25 AM
DT made it back just fine, didn't he? do you even know about football? DT is a big big exception to the rule, plus he only tore his Achilles he didn't fully rupture it.

Kansas Bob
05-23-2012, 11:26 AM
No!!! I actually liked Vaughn. He had value at KR and Nickel. So I'm guessing we're cutting Larsen?
Larsen left Denver as a FA and is in New England I believe. I know it has already been stated. I think the trade was between two teams that were already determined to get rid of their player. Gronkowski probably won't make the squad here either.

Broncoholic3233
05-23-2012, 11:26 AM
do you even know about football? DT is a big big exception to the rule, plus he only tore his Achilles he didn't fully rupture it.

No. I have no idea about football. :coffee:

CinnaMunMun
05-23-2012, 11:26 AM
He gains another 100 points because his other brother Dan played for Denver.

but it all doesn't end until someone grabs the golden snitch! :laugh:

crash123go
05-23-2012, 11:31 AM
No. I have no idea about football. :coffee:
I didn't think so, I'm not saying syd can't come back but most likely he's not going to be. Once the achilles is ruptured you lose flexibility, speed and explosion, some guys don't walk the same after that injury. The Achilles is like a acl injury 30 years ago, I hope syd makes it back he would be a decent 5th cb but never showed enough flash to be more then depth

350legend
05-23-2012, 11:32 AM
With all the great talent we have in the position (CB), we were able to afford to deal him, i like him as well but the FB position was in great need, i believe we only had 1 and bringing in Gronk with the talent he has in that position is a :thumb:!!!!!

Broncoholic3233
05-23-2012, 11:33 AM
I didn't think so, I'm not saying syd can't come back but most likely he's not going to be. Once the achilles is ruptured you lose flexibility, speed and explosion, some guys don't walk the same after that injury. The Achilles is like a acl injury 30 years ago, I hope syd makes it back he would be a decent 5th cb but never showed enough flash to be more then depth

Once again, DT made it back still has the speed, flexibility and explosion.

Whose to say Syd won't? Exactly.

We traded a backup CB for a fullback. Get over it. It's not like we traded Champ for him.

crash123go
05-23-2012, 11:35 AM
Once again, DT made it back still has the speed, flexibility and explosion.

Whose to say Syd won't? Exactly.

We traded a backup CB for a fullback. Get over it. It's not like we traded Champ for him.
Your the one making a big deal about it, I'm just stating that anyone who thinks syd is gonna make a impact needs to realize he most likely isn't coming back

broncos SB2010
05-23-2012, 11:38 AM
Your the one making a big deal about it, I'm just stating that anyone who thinks syd is gonna make a impact needs to realize he most likely isn't coming back

Odds were good that neither Vaughn nor Syd would make it onto the final 53.

one_bad_55
05-23-2012, 11:39 AM
We need a good FB to open holes for Ronnie "Speedy Gonzalas" Hillman. :laugh:

BroncoFanBoy
05-23-2012, 11:41 AM
Your the one making a big deal about it, I'm just stating that anyone who thinks syd is gonna make a impact needs to realize he most likely isn't coming back

Doesn't mean we can't stay positive about him.. I don't expect him to return full-strength, but he is a well-liked player. I've always liked him and I really hope he can return.

crash123go
05-23-2012, 11:46 AM
Doesn't mean we can't stay positive about him.. I don't expect him to return full-strength, but he is a well-liked player. I've always liked him and I really hope he can return.

He's well liked for no reason, he's another player just like Vaughn, everyone is just rooting for the under dog. Like broncos_sb2010 neither were probably gonna make the team with champ, porter, Florence, Harris all being locks and the only way bolden isn't a lock is if he ridiculously sucks

BroncoFanBoy
05-23-2012, 11:51 AM
He's well liked for no reason, he's another player just like Vaughn, everyone is just rooting for the under dog. Like broncos_sb2010 neither were probably gonna make the team with champ, porter, Florence, Harris all being locks and the only way bolden isn't a lock is if he ridiculously sucks

Personally, I thought he played pretty well in his limited time in 2010. Especially since he was a 7th round pick. He's a good tackler and even had an interception. I believe he would have a good NFL career. That's just me though.

And of course people are gonna root for him. Rupturing an achillies is always ugly, and one shall not root against it.

crash123go
05-23-2012, 11:53 AM
Personally, I thought he played pretty well in his limited time in 2010. Especially since he was a 7th round pick. He's a good tackler and even had an interception. I believe he would have a good NFL career. That's just me though.

And of course people are gonna root for him. Rupturing an achillies is always ugly, and one shall not root against it.I root for the best players to make the team

BroncoFanBoy
05-23-2012, 11:56 AM
I root for the best players to make the team

And I like to see people come back from injury and still be very effective. Who doesn't?

Remedy
05-23-2012, 12:06 PM
And I like to see people come back from injury and still be very effective. Who doesn't?

the two things (best player and someone coming back from injury) are not mutually exclusive.


Either way this trade boils down to a CB who wasn't going to make the team(in all likelihood) got traded for a FB to compete with sylvester.

Really not a game changer either way. haha

BroncoooJohnson
05-23-2012, 12:07 PM
No!!! I actually liked Vaughn. He had value at KR and Nickel. So I'm guessing we're cutting Larsen?

Larsen is a patriot.

BroncoFanBoy
05-23-2012, 12:08 PM
the two things (best player and someone coming back from injury) are not mutually exclusive.


Either way this trade boils down to a CB who wasn't going to make the team(in all likelihood) got traded for a FB to compete with sylvester.

Really not a game changer either way. haha

I did like Vaughn, but this trade does make sense.

12and4
05-23-2012, 12:25 PM
i dont understand how people are angry lol. I bet you guys woulda been po'd if we traded vaughn for patrick willis....

jeez. We traded an expendable from a position we are stacked at for a fb which we needed... i dont see how thats bad.

PowderAddict
05-23-2012, 12:27 PM
*flush*

Hear that? It's the championship chances going down the toilet because of this trade.

Remedy
05-23-2012, 12:32 PM
*flush*

Hear that? It's the championship chances going down the toilet because of this trade.

http://s3-ak.buzzfed.com/static/imagebuzz/web05/2011/6/9/17/anigif_not-sure-if-serious-gif-to-be-used-on-forums-22779-1307655858-12.gif

bronx_2003
05-23-2012, 12:43 PM
LOL, Soooooooooooooooo funny seeing people debate these 2 players.

Vaughn was going to be cut. Champ, Porter, Bolden, Florence, Harris are LOCKS

IF we decided to keep another corner, and we only kept 5 last year, it would be Squid for his returns or Judie for his potential.

The interesting thing is the FB. I thought we would have Virgil Green perform this role at times. IF we do keep a FB then that means one less WR or TE.

I would guess that Sylvester and Gron. are both cut.

Small time trade that does not matter either way IMO.

JakeNbake
05-23-2012, 12:52 PM
Get the Syd hate outa here!

BroncosPWNn00bs
05-23-2012, 12:59 PM
:laugh: at the people here. I liked Cassius, but I have no problem trading him for a FB. We may use a FB more next year with Manning being here anyways. Since Manning loves dumping off to TE's/FB's/ anyone who is open. So this could turn out to be a good trade for us. We already added a bunch of CB's this year, so he was the oddman out who we could afford to trade and get someone at a position we need more depth in.

:salute: to Elway

I could picture us trading Cassius for Calvin Johnson, and everyone would be mad because we already have some quality WR's, and we don't need to give up a CB to get him :laugh:

I'd rather trade someone and get value for him, then to just cut him. And I'm also glad that we didn't just trade a draft pick to get Gronk. We'll see how it plays out. But its not a horrible trade by any means.

PowderAddict
05-23-2012, 01:03 PM
http://s3-ak.buzzfed.com/static/imagebuzz/web05/2011/6/9/17/anigif_not-sure-if-serious-gif-to-be-used-on-forums-22779-1307655858-12.gif

sirius.

10

InsaneBlaze23
05-23-2012, 01:06 PM
Denver Broncos corner weak links? Andre Goodman, has speed but is afraid to get hit and doesn't use that track running speed.

Cassius Vaughn, decent ST player, below average corner.

We got rid of 2 secondary weak links. Replaced with a FB, in which we need seeing how the only official FB on the team is a PS player.

beastlyskronk
05-23-2012, 01:14 PM
Vaughn was gonna make it before sydquan, Nobody likes to remember sydquan ruptured his Achilles which is the MOST devastating injury in the NFL and has a return rate of like 15%

A return rate of 15% means very little as this injury is still relatively rare although we've seen it happen a bit more recently. The fact is, throughout the history of the NFL players who have ruptured their achilles usually have been on the downside of their career or not very talented to begin with. Their have been quite a few players who have came back for it, the thing is though, that everyone who came back from it were good before they hurt themselves. And Thompson looked very good his rookie year and in camp last year. Also a 4.5 isn't slow, it's not ideal for the CB position but you can still be a very good CB in the NFL and run a 4.5

beastlyskronk
05-23-2012, 01:19 PM
do you even know about football? DT is a big big exception to the rule, plus he only tore his Achilles he didn't fully rupture it.

All the reports I've read said that Syd only tore his achilles

Steamboat7
05-23-2012, 01:33 PM
Eh, Gronkoswki won't even make the team

Who knows? Maybe we'll convert him to a TE. :D

BroncoFanNC
05-23-2012, 01:48 PM
Shoulda traded Vaughn plus our 1st from next year for Alphonso Smith from the Lions, then traded Smith to the Colts for Gronk number 3....

#87Birdman
05-23-2012, 01:51 PM
Who knows? Maybe we'll convert him to a TE. :D

We need more TE's. I want a 10 TE set where we run it and start lateraling it back to other guys that can run and catch and they can block. Actually get rid of manning to put in another TE :P. Hey we need Tebow back, maybe the Jets will except a trade for Manning for Tebow straight up so we can run this super advance formation :)

THEdraftnik
05-23-2012, 02:06 PM
I doubt either would/will make our roster. But I liked Vaughn so I'm a tad dissapointed.

dizzolve
05-23-2012, 02:25 PM
He's well liked for no reason, he's another player just like Vaughn, everyone is just rooting for the under dog. Like broncos_sb2010 neither were probably gonna make the team with champ, porter, Florence, Harris all being locks and the only way bolden isn't a lock is if he ridiculously sucks

No Reason?

Dude can return kicks and play db - young fast quick -

sure he got injured and yes he might not come back from it 100% but to say he's got fans for no reason is ignorant.

People are fans of Squid and I'm one of them. I hope his injury doesn't hold him back at all - that's possible too ya know

jlhawkins9
05-23-2012, 02:32 PM
Dumb trade... Should have waited till camp and wait till a team losers a corner .
Can't blame this on X

Remedy
05-23-2012, 02:34 PM
Dumb trade... Should have waited till camp and wait till a team losers a corner .
Can't blame this on X

Don't think it matters he would have been cut. we have a ridiculously crowded backfield. In essence we got a fb to compete for someone who we would have cut. Not sure how you figure that to be dumb trade really.

#24 Next Champ
05-23-2012, 02:37 PM
Dumb trade... Should have waited till camp and wait till a team losers a corner .
Can't blame this on X

N has anyone considered what if we for whatever reason, get decimated at corner like we did RB in '08?

Remedy
05-23-2012, 02:38 PM
N has anyone considered what if we for whatever reason, get decimated at corner like we did RB in '08?

we are ridiculously deep at CB right now...

#24 Next Champ
05-23-2012, 02:44 PM
we are ridiculously deep at CB right now...

Florence and Porter go down?

What do we do? Force a rookie who may suck or 5'9 Thompson on the outside?

What if we lose more than that? It's not impossible n Chris Gronk isn't worth taking the risk imo...

#24 Next Champ
05-23-2012, 02:45 PM
:rolleyes:

It was a fine trade.

Anddd your counter points to mine are????

Remedy
05-23-2012, 02:45 PM
Florence and Porter go down?

What do we do? Force a rookie who may suck or 5'9 Thompson on the outside?

What if we lose more than that? It's not impossible n Chris Gronk isn't worth taking the risk imo...

that can be said about every single position on the field. "what if x number of players go down"

What if Manning and Hanie goes down do we start a rookie in Osweiler who might suck? same sort of argument....

we were probably going to cut the guy regardless....

Broncoholic3233
05-23-2012, 02:46 PM
Florence and Porter go down?

What do we do? Force a rookie who may suck or 5'9 Thompson on the outside?

What if we lose more than that? It's not impossible n Chris Gronk isn't worth taking the risk imo...

You conveniently left out Harris.

And what, you just expect us to keep like 8 CB's on the roster just in case people get injured?

#24 Next Champ
05-23-2012, 02:57 PM
You conveniently left out Harris.

And what, you just expect us to keep like 8 CB's on the roster just in case people get injured?

Harris will be our nickel ...

Look, I don't have too much of a problem trading Vaughn ...my point is considering who we traded him to n what we got in return is not equal value imo as he will the a starting CB for them imo

We give a team a starter n essentially get nothing? Doesn't add up

Jay3
05-23-2012, 03:02 PM
Dislike.

10 char

PowderAddict
05-23-2012, 03:06 PM
N has anyone considered what if we for whatever reason, get decimated at corner like we did RB in '08?

What if we lose a FB? Being that up to today we only had 1, if that 1 got injured, the whole position would be "decimated".

Not saying FB is as valuable as CB, but we shored up an area we needed depth and it cost us a bubble type player who was no lock to even make the roster.

killacal
05-23-2012, 03:06 PM
i liked vaughn too but come on ppl he had a slim chance of making the roster, evidently he didnt impress during ota's nor did the current FO care for his play last season. so we traded a player we were going to cut some are acting like we only have 5 cb's competing, we have 10 fighting for spots. yeah yeah what if a cb gets hurt, but if "if was a fifth than we would all be drunk" you can make that same argument for any and all positions. dont get me wrong i liked him but we didnt trade away champ or revis plus we also picked up coryell judie who does the same thing vaughn did

#24 Next Champ
05-23-2012, 03:14 PM
i liked vaughn too but come on ppl he had a slim chance of making the roster, evidently he didnt impress during ota's nor did the current FO care for his play last season. so we traded a player we were going to cut some are acting like we only have 5 cb's competing, we have 10 fighting for spots. yeah yeah what if a cb gets hurt, but if "if was a fifth than we would all be drunk" you can make that same argument for any and all positions. dont get me wrong i liked him but we didnt trade away champ or revis plus we also picked up coryell judie who does the same thing vaughn did

Again (like the draft day trades), problem is not with the trade(s)...it's with the compensation

They got a starter likely, what'd we get? Chris Gronk..?

PowderAddict
05-23-2012, 03:22 PM
Again (like the draft day trades), problem is not with the trade(s)...it's with the compensation

They got a starter likely, what'd we get? Chris Gronk..?

If they got a starter, that says more about the condition of their secondary than about the trading skills of one John Elway.

I sold an old beat to hell Ford Aspire that was running once for $50. It was a beater I had acquired along the way. I hadn't driven it when I sold it for a long time, because I had several other cars that were nice. It went from being something I was probably going to drop off at the scrap heap for nothing, to some 17 year old kid's daily driver.

Just becuase it became his daily driver, should I have been pissed I didn't hold out for $500? I was just happy I didn't have to drive it down to the junkyard, and got $50 out of the deal!

Vaughn obviously had no value in the eyes our our Front Office. Instead of letting him walk for nothing, they got something for him. To me, getting something of value is better than getting nothing at all. Even if that value isn't much.

#24 Next Champ
05-23-2012, 03:29 PM
If they got a starter, that says more about the condition of their secondary than about the trading skills of one John Elway.

I sold an old beat to hell Ford Aspire that was running once for $50. It was a beater I had acquired along the way. I hadn't driven it when I sold it for a long time, because I had several other cars that were nice. It went from being something I was probably going to drop off at the scrap heap for nothing, to some 17 year old kid's daily driver.

Just becuase it became his daily driver, should I have been pissed I didn't hold out for $500? I was just happy I didn't have to drive it down to the junkyard, and got $50 out of the deal!

Vaughn obviously had no value in the eyes our our Front Office. Instead of letting him walk for nothing, they got something for him. To me, getting something of value is better than getting nothing at all. Even if that value isn't much.

I understand what you're saying and respect your opinion (although the truck is a different story because you're doing a young kid a favor)

But I respectfully disagree ...I believe if you give a team a starting CB you should get at least fair compensation ...n I don't feel Gronk, nor the draft day compensation was fair

Therefore, especially because of the trend that seems to have formed, I don't feel Elway is a good trade negotiator for whatever reason

JakeNbake
05-23-2012, 03:33 PM
I understand what you're saying and respect your opinion (although the truck is a different story because you're doing a young kid a favor)

But I respectfully disagree ...I believe if you give a team a starting CB you should get at least fair compensation ...n I don't feel Gronk, nor the draft day compensation was fair

Therefore, especially because of the trend that seems to have formed, I don't feel Elway is a good trade negotiator for whatever reason

If Vaughn starts for Indy that's Indy's problem.

We just signed a bunch of CB's and they felt he was expendable. They got a player in return.

It's exactly what Powder was saying. If you're just going to throw it away you might as well get something in return.

Remedy
05-23-2012, 03:34 PM
I understand what you're saying and respect your opinion (although the truck is a different story because you're doing a young kid a favor)

But I respectfully disagree ...I believe if you give a team a starting CB you should get at least fair compensation ...n I don't feel Gronk, nor the draft day compensation was fair

Therefore, especially because of the trend that seems to have formed, I don't feel Elway is a good trade negotiator for whatever reason

you also need to consider we were likely going to cut him... and other teams probably knew that as well. in a sense we almost 'got something' for nothing.

JvDub95
05-23-2012, 03:39 PM
Again (like the draft day trades), problem is not with the trade(s)...it's with the compensation

They got a starter likely, what'd we get? Chris Gronk..?
Imo, Vaughn isn't a starter. He will be a camp body for them who might compete for the nickle spot. He was in Denver for what, 3 years? He couldn't crack a starting gig here, I don't see him getting a starting gig there either. I could be wrong, maybe he learned enough in his experience here to push for a job there. I hope he does, I always like seeing x Broncos succeed in other places minus Cutler, jk.

As for the trade, I think is a fair up and up trade. Vaughn more than likely wasn't even going to make the team and we add a FB that we really needed. Whether Gronk is the guy or not he is atleast competition for who, Sylvester? We needed another body there so it is all good as far as i'm concerned. Good luck Cassius, welcome aboard Chris :goz:

sleen
05-23-2012, 04:04 PM
I understand what you're saying and respect your opinion (although the truck is a different story because you're doing a young kid a favor)

But I respectfully disagree ...I believe if you give a team a starting CB you should get at least fair compensation ...n I don't feel Gronk, nor the draft day compensation was fair

Therefore, especially because of the trend that seems to have formed, I don't feel Elway is a good trade negotiator for whatever reason

They're getting a starter by virtue of the fact that Indy basically has no CBs and we have 10.

RaiderFanSD
05-23-2012, 04:31 PM
ahh that's the guy who missed his block and Romo missed the rest of the season with a shoulder injury

JakeNbake
05-23-2012, 04:32 PM
ahh that's the guy who missed his block and Romo missed the rest of the season with a shoulder injury

Well I don't like Romo anyway

broncolee
05-23-2012, 04:33 PM
The only thing that surprises me about this trade is that it makes it seem like the Broncos are serious about using a fullback.

I just figured they would go without one and use a TE as the lead blocker if they wanted one.

:goz:

BluenOrnge4Life
05-23-2012, 05:00 PM
This board is SO emo. /End Thread

broncos SB2010
05-23-2012, 06:38 PM
N has anyone considered what if we for whatever reason, get decimated at corner like we did RB in '08?

what if the world ends..........who cares about the World of What If........

broncos SB2010
05-23-2012, 06:39 PM
Harris will be our nickel ...

Look, I don't have too much of a problem trading Vaughn ...my point is considering who we traded him to n what we got in return is not equal value imo as he will the a starting CB for them imo

We give a team a starter n essentially get nothing? Doesn't add up

No, he won't.

broncos SB2010
05-23-2012, 06:41 PM
I understand what you're saying and respect your opinion (although the truck is a different story because you're doing a young kid a favor)

But I respectfully disagree ...I believe if you give a team a starting CB you should get at least fair compensation ...n I don't feel Gronk, nor the draft day compensation was fair

Therefore, especially because of the trend that seems to have formed, I don't feel Elway is a good trade negotiator for whatever reason

vaughn isn't a starting CB. If he is, I sure hope we play them A LOT!!!

Pratama
05-23-2012, 07:22 PM
Hate to see him go. I liked Vaughn. But there's no spot here for him. He is not going to get into the kick return game, and he is not going to be on the field at CB.

Its weird though, trade a guy who wasn't going to play for a guy who isn't going to play.

Overall, though I guess it makes some sense. Gronk has a better chance of playing than Vaughn did.

Iron Clady
05-23-2012, 07:43 PM
Vaughn wasn't going to make the team. We're going to keep 5, maybe 6 CBs at the most. Champ, Porter, Florence, Bolden, Harris. I think we're definitely going to keep those 5. So if we keep 5 CBs those are the guys.

If we keep more than that it will most likely come down to Thompson and Judie. Despite his stature and lack of speed, Thompson was solid and made some plays when given the chance. It will be intersting to see how he returns from his injury. Judie has some talent, size, and athleticism. I think he could've easily been a mid-round pick if he stayed healthy last year. Hopefully he can stay healthy and we can see what kind of player he is.

Vaughn always had potential because of his size/speed combo, but how many players have there been in the league that always had the athleticism but just weren't good players? A lot. He had talent, but he was repeatedly burnt when he had to play meaningful snaps. Add in the fact that he's coming off a bad injury and I can see why we decided to trade him.

Now maybe some of you have problems with the compensation. I don't think Chris Gronk is very good. I don't think he will make the team. But I had my doubts about Vaughn's chances as well. Might as well give it a shot. I don't know how much we are going to implement a FB into our offense. I don't think we will use one very much, and I thought we would use Virgil Green as our FB so we wouldn't have to use a roster spot on somebody who's strictly a FB. Maybe Gronk is a rental player while Green is suspended? We will see.

BANJOPICKER1
05-23-2012, 07:44 PM
I know right? He has to battle the awesome might of Austin Sylvester.

Thanks for making me smile! CP to ya!
I think this was a good trade, low key but cool!:D

GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO BRONCOS!!!!:goz:

killacal
05-23-2012, 07:58 PM
i think we did him a favor by trading him, he gets a chance to start. he wasnt going to make the team here so he is in the best situation. even if gronk doesnt make the team what is the difference it would be an open spot whether it was gronk to get cut or vaughn. i really wanted him to be a starter here but he never evolved into the replacement of champ. and to the argument of if champ gets hurt u move florence over and everybody moves up, and so on and so on. nobody keeps 10 cbs or any other position. if someone gets hurt then u go find new ppl but u cant keep 10 of each position u only have a 53 man roster

BroncoSexyDaddy
05-23-2012, 11:21 PM
Even if he wasn't traded, I just don't see how Cassius was going to make the roster.

Bailey, Porter, Florence, Harris, Bolden, Sydquan, Cassius.

Cassius was on the bubble for sure, glad we got something for himI agree,i'm glad we got something for him too.I always liked Syd'quan Thompson over Vaughn,i'm glad it wasn't Syd.We needed more depth at FB.

japfaff
05-23-2012, 11:50 PM
Bottom of the roster shuffle ...neither would have done much if they made the team...Although I think that they got the better deal cause I liked CV on returns

#24 Next Champ
05-23-2012, 11:52 PM
Can I vote this post for dumbest post so far this year?

If Vaughn becomes a starter in Indy then that's great for him. But there was no room for him here. Was he going to start over Champ, Porter, or even Florence or Chris Harris, no, no chance at all.

Same can be said for Gronk, he's a potential starter for us at FB. He has a chance to compete and make the team, same thing we gave Vaughn who had no chance at making this team. Fair trade and minimal trade that cost us virtually nothing. Quit complaining about nothing.

I'm not complaining, n that was rather rude but okay

Btw, SBbound - why do you say Harris won't be our nickel...I mean it's possible Porter is with Florence outside but I definitely think it's his spot to lose (Harris's)

AdamWeberOrBust
05-24-2012, 04:26 AM
Here's something to think about...

When we play the Patriots, do you think Chris will lock Rob in a closet like Eli did to Peyton on that Direct TV commerical?

That would be funny! :D

crash123go
05-24-2012, 04:30 AM
Again (like the draft day trades), problem is not with the trade(s)...it's with the compensation

They got a starter likely, what'd we get? Chris Gronk..?

and who did we trade away???? Vaughn??? Oh jesus we sold the farm cause he was just so damn good, c'mon dude Vaughn wasn't gonna make the team so we basically traded someone we were gonna cut anyways which is always good business

johnlimburg
05-24-2012, 04:42 AM
I liked Vaughn. However it was very very doubtful he makes the team. Just like it is doubtful Gronk will make the final roster. It is really a trade that means very little. I cannot be bothered reading all of this thread but I really hope it isn't like the post of the one person crying about unfair trade compensation. Hopefully the rest of people posting in the other 9 pages are not so pathetic to cry about this trade.

And no Vaughn is not a starter. He was relegated to not even playing after his poor start to the season. I guess he ran fast though so it is no wonder the one person complaining sees this as a negative trade. With Bailey, Porter, Florence, Harris, Syd, Bolden and even Judie it was very unlikely that he would have even been playing. Gronkowski may get a legit shot to compete though.

Vaugh had some nice highlights as a Broncos and hopefully he goes on to have a great career :salute:

// / yardo
05-24-2012, 05:07 AM
I like Vaughn too. But... it was going to be a tough camp for the corner position. We're stacked there. Hope he does well with the Colts.

johnlimburg
05-24-2012, 05:32 AM
Just watched a full game of Dallas Cowboys from 2010 against the New York Giants. Gronk played a good amount of snaps. Played specifically in the back field and subbed out some times for Jason Whittenk who is more of a recieving threat. However on the runs down Gronk looked good. Physical no fear type of player. Churns throught the trash inside and got his hands and body on players in the second level and in the backfield and handled them well. Delivered some hits as well especially on chip blocks. Destroyed a defensive end on one play and also played well against Bullock and Goff inside who are two good linebackers. Don't mind the pickup at all.

Gouger
05-24-2012, 06:00 AM
Backup CB for an average FB. Sounds good to me.



This Gronk is a FB.

Just don't ask him to block for ya.

SBboundBRONCOS
05-24-2012, 06:21 AM
I'm not complaining, n that was rather rude but okay

Btw, SBbound - why do you say Harris won't be our nickel...I mean it's possible Porter is with Florence outside but I definitely think it's his spot to lose (Harris's)

i dont think i posted in this thread, unless there is someone with a similar name i think your confused

as for them getting a starter, it doesnt matter cuz hes not a starter on OUR team we traded our backup for another backup

equal trade depending on who we think is going to be our return man

but anyway vaughn wasnt that good

Broncback30
05-24-2012, 06:32 AM
He might make a passable lead blocker. We also have a couple of UFA DB's I'm thinking so no big loss

Joshecalpoly
05-24-2012, 07:05 AM
He might make a passable lead blocker. We also have a couple of UFA DB's I'm thinking so no big loss Honestly I think we will end up going after a FB next year in the draft, Devonte Campbell might be a nice hidden gem from Maryland, if not him Zach Boren from OSU

There is a reason the Colts instagated the trade, they needed a developmental CB who has a lot of potential and they saw that in Vaughn which is something they said. He uses his hands and footing well to jam up receivers and has good speed for his size, his biggest issue is he cant control his speed and is forced to recover to often, easily fixed.

Truth is the FO has received trade inquiries about Vaughn since his rookie year when he wowed people in pre-season, but this was the first time we jumped on it, and that has to do with the emergence of Harris. Harris has better recovery speed but not better hand or feet positioning, he wont get beat but as badly but from what ive seen he will probably allow more catches, still neither is ready for starting yet.

As for Chris despite everyone arguing with me about us not needing a lead blocker because Manning never needed one, despite the fact we are going for a more run happy O then hes used to, I believe a FB who can block is needed badly, preferably one whose elite.

Chris was a backfield blocking specialist in college, with alot more burst then Larsen yet hes a bit underweight, he hasnt gotten much of a chance since he allowed Michael Boley go unblocked, injuring Romo so who knows

yaz96
05-24-2012, 07:22 AM
Chris was a backfield blocking specialist in college, with alot more burst then Larsen yet hes a bit underweight, he hasnt gotten much of a chance since he allowed Michael Boley go unblocked, injuring Romo so who knows


The thing is, he can't make a mistake like that here and let Peyton get creamed.

It's worrisome at best.

#87Birdman
05-24-2012, 07:25 AM
The thing is, he can't make a mistake like that here and let Peyton get creamed.

It's worrisome at best.

Well then we should bench Franklin to because i have seen a couple times where guys just ran around him and hit the QB. Players miss blocks all the time, so I guess that means 1 mistake and your done. Heck what ever tackle it was that missed cut blocking Doom should be cut from the Pats because Brady took an extremely hard shot from Doom who had a free shot.

Just because an injury occured from a mistake shouldn't mean he is bad.

broncos SB2010
05-24-2012, 08:22 AM
i dont think i posted in this thread, unless there is someone with a similar name i think your confused

as for them getting a starter, it doesnt matter cuz hes not a starter on OUR team we traded our backup for another backup

equal trade depending on who we think is going to be our return man

but anyway vaughn wasnt that good

I think he meant me. As to the question, I don't think Harris will be the starter because I think Champ, Florence, and Porter will be first 3 CBs up. Harris will also have to outplay Bolden for the #4 spot.

BroncoFanNC
05-24-2012, 09:00 AM
Good Riddance, he's a thief! haha


Q ‏@SinCityBuck
Took the freakRT @T_Porter22: @CassiusVaughn man u stole my lotion out my locker son

bronx_2003
05-24-2012, 09:51 AM
Harris will be our nickel ...

Look, I don't have too much of a problem trading Vaughn ...my point is considering who we traded him to n what we got in return is not equal value imo as he will the a starting CB for them imo

We give a team a starter n essentially get nothing? Doesn't add up

If Vaughn is any higher then a #3 they are in trouble.

CinnaMunMun
05-24-2012, 10:00 AM
Just don't ask him to block for ya.

We can always have Peyton yell at him like he did Donald Brown :laugh:

#24 Next Champ
05-24-2012, 10:23 AM
I love how anyone who disagrees with "certain" people is made out to be an idiot ...

What the hell is your guys' problem? You don't have to be completely rude it's a damn discussion forum

N to be clear I'm not whining or complaining about anything, because it's not a big deal... I made a simple point that I think they got the better end of the deal like every team that has traded with us since we've had Elway in the FO

SORRY FOR HAVING AN OPINION...damn you guys are rude

bronx_2003
05-24-2012, 10:46 AM
I love how anyone who disagrees with "certain" people is made out to be an idiot ...

What the hell is your guys' problem? You don't have to be completely rude it's a damn discussion forum

N to be clear I'm not whining or complaining about anything, because it's not a big deal... I made a simple point that I think they got the better end of the deal like every team that has traded with us since we've had Elway in the FO

SORRY FOR HAVING AN OPINION...damn you guys are rude

TBH I'm just surprised this thread has so many pages.

We traded our #6/7 corner who was going to be cut for a scrub FB who will be cut.

Theirs no winners / losers in this trade, both teams got a marginal back-up who probably won't make the final roster.

IMO its a complete non-story, but I know the off-season is boring lol

Hoserman117
05-24-2012, 10:57 AM
I think we got crap value in this trade, but I don't think Vaughn had a shot of making the roster this year. Champ, Porter, Florence, Bolden, and Harris would have made it ahead of him.

Kansas Bob
05-24-2012, 11:02 AM
TBH I'm just surprised this thread has so many pages.

We traded our #6/7 corner who was going to be cut for a scrub FB who will be cut.

Theirs no winners / losers in this trade, both teams got a marginal back-up who probably won't make the final roster.

IMO its a complete non-story, but I know the off-season is boring lolI have to agree that Gronkowski might very possibly get cut but IMO Vaughn was way down on the depth chart and was almost a certain cut. Why not bring in Gronkowski and give him a shot at making the team. Yes I know he missed a block that got Romo hurt but everybody makes a mistake sooner or later.
I the Broncos wants to go back to a two back system, I think Gronk has a great chance being the lead blocker in the formation! Good move front office!

Strapy
05-24-2012, 11:13 AM
Nice. We needed a fullback and another teammate of Manning's is good.

Manning never played on the field with this guy. They were teammates. But Gronkowski only played last year for the Colts.

bronx_2003
05-24-2012, 11:21 AM
I have to agree that Gronkowski might very possibly get cut but IMO Vaughn was way down on the depth chart and was almost a certain cut. Why not bring in Gronkowski and give him a shot at making the team. Yes I know he missed a block that got Romo hurt but everybody makes a mistake sooner or later.
I the Broncos wants to go back to a two back system, I think Gronk has a great chance being the lead blocker in the formation! Good move front office!

Hopefully he has a good camp.

Just don't understand people who thought we got bad value when he would of been cut.

What do they seriously expect for Vaughn ? A round 2 pick ? lol

There's no way I would give up a 7th rounder for a teams 6/7th corner.

Denver and Indy were both probably going to cut these 2 but they swapped them because both teams may of needed competition at that position in camp.

crash123go
05-24-2012, 11:29 AM
Manning never played on the field with this guy. They were teammates. But Gronkowski only played last year for the Colts.

He never said they played together he just said it was nice to have another teammate of mannings

crash123go
05-24-2012, 11:31 AM
Hopefully he has a good camp.

Just don't understand people who thought we got bad value when he would of been cut.

What do they seriously expect for Vaughn ? A round 2 pick ? lol

There's no way I would give up a 7th rounder for a teams 6/7th corner.

Denver and Indy were both probably going to cut these 2 but they swapped them because both teams may of needed competition at that position in camp.

This is the perfect analysis of the trade. We got great value on this trade because we addressed a position of need with a player that was going to cut. How does anyone think this wasnt a great trade?

sleen
05-24-2012, 11:50 AM
I think we got crap value in this trade, but I don't think Vaughn had a shot of making the roster this year. Champ, Porter, Florence, Bolden, and Harris would have made it ahead of him.
Crap value? Who were you expecting to get in return? Andrew Luck? :coffee:

#24 Next Champ
05-24-2012, 11:54 AM
Crap value? Who were you expecting to get in return? Andrew Luck? :coffee:

Heaven forbid some of us would want more than junk for someone who will likely start for the other team

All of you are rude as hell n somehow I'M on probation n get an infraction for saying "goobers"

Hoserman117
05-24-2012, 12:02 PM
Crap value? Who were you expecting to get in return? Andrew Luck? :coffee:

Yup, I clearly wanted Andrew Luck.

:coffee:

Remind me the last time a Peyton Manning offense used a fullback. I don't see where Gronkowski fits on this team anywhere. Vaugh is a long, fast, athletic corner who made some plays for us returning kicks, and was looking like a #3 corner last off-season before some mild injuries and an inability to put it together on gameday dropped him on the depth chart.

:coffee:

He has potential, he has talent, and I'm very sure he'll make the Colts roster. We traded pretty good talent for a position I don't even think we're going to use very much. You can still get bad value when dealing with low quality players. I'm not saying I'm super pissed at the trade, but we didn't get good return value.

:coffee:

:coffee:

broncos SB2010
05-24-2012, 12:09 PM
Yup, I clearly wanted Andrew Luck.

:coffee:

Remind me the last time a Peyton Manning offense used a fullback. I don't see where Gronkowski fits on this team anywhere. Vaugh is a long, fast, athletic corner who made some plays for us returning kicks, and was looking like a #3 corner last off-season before some mild injuries and an inability to put it together on gameday dropped him on the depth chart.

:coffee:

He has potential, he has talent, and I'm very sure he'll make the Colts roster. We traded pretty good talent for a position I don't even think we're going to use very much. You can still get bad value when dealing with low quality players. I'm not saying I'm super pissed at the trade, but we didn't get good return value.

:coffee:

:coffee:

This isn't going to be a "Peyton Manning offense" It is NOT the same offense they ran in Indy.

crash123go
05-24-2012, 12:15 PM
Hopefully he has a good camp.

Just don't understand people who thought we got bad value when he would of been cut.

What do they seriously expect for Vaughn ? A round 2 pick ? lol

There's no way I would give up a 7th rounder for a teams 6/7th corner.

Denver and Indy were both probably going to cut these 2 but they swapped them because both teams may of needed competition at that position in camp.


Heaven forbid some of us would want more than junk for someone who will likely start for the other team

All of you are rude as hell n somehow I'M on probation n get an infraction for saying "goobers"

Lol were not rude, you just extremely over value a 7th cb who was a UDFA and got abused in every game he played in And wasn't going to make the team

crash123go
05-24-2012, 12:18 PM
Hopefully he has a good camp.

Just don't understand people who thought we got bad value when he would of been cut.

What do they seriously expect for Vaughn ? A round 2 pick ? lol

There's no way I would give up a 7th rounder for a teams 6/7th corner.

Denver and Indy were both probably going to cut these 2 but they swapped them because both teams may of needed competition at that position in camp.


This isn't going to be a "Peyton Manning offense" It is NOT the same offense they ran in Indy.

A lot of people don't get that we are going to run a mix of mcdaniels offense, fox offense and mannings offense and most of our coaches have already said we are gonna be using a lot of two back sets

#24 Next Champ
05-24-2012, 12:20 PM
Lol were not rude, you just extremely over value a 7th cb who was a UDFA and got abused in every game he played in And wasn't going to make the team

Yes, Limburg n others were in fact rude as hell

Also ...that CB scored two TD's last year, even though he did have his struggles

Hoserman117
05-24-2012, 12:20 PM
This isn't going to be a "Peyton Manning offense" It is NOT the same offense they ran in Indy.

I know that, but it'd be foolish to think that the offense is going to not include anything that Peyton used to do in Indy. It's not like we used Larsen a ton last year either.

Either way, FB's are rarely used in todays NFL, especially ones that can't pass block, run, or catch.

Hoserman117
05-24-2012, 12:24 PM
Lol were not rude, you just extremely over value a 7th cb who was a UDFA and got abused in every game he played in And wasn't going to make the team

I don't think he's over valuing Vaughn, he just has an accurate read on the value of Gronkowski, who is a scrub FB who couldn't get snaps on a very non-important position in the NFL outside of injuries to people ahead of him. Vaughn has size, speed, and athleticism at an important position. What does Gronkowski have exactly?

#24 Next Champ
05-24-2012, 12:28 PM
Yup, I clearly wanted Andrew Luck.

:coffee:

Remind me the last time a Peyton Manning offense used a fullback. I don't see where Gronkowski fits on this team anywhere. Vaugh is a long, fast, athletic corner who made some plays for us returning kicks, and was looking like a #3 corner last off-season before some mild injuries and an inability to put it together on gameday dropped him on the depth chart.

:coffee:

He has potential, he has talent, and I'm very sure he'll make the Colts roster. We traded pretty good talent for a position I don't even think we're going to use very much. You can still get bad value when dealing with low quality players. I'm not saying I'm super pissed at the trade, but we didn't get good return value.

:coffee:

:coffee:

Loll love the Smileys

And aside from us not using an FB this is SPOT ON

but we're obviously idiots who are just complaining Hoser...we're not allowed to have opinions...smh

CP if I could

Like you, this trade doesn't really bother me but I think it's a very fair statement to say that we yet again got the lesser end of the deal and that was more my point...

What trade has Elway made that we actually got the better end of...? And that's what concerns me, not this trade specifically

I feel like we always are gna get the lesser end of the deal with Elway (in trades) because that's all he's done so far (in terms of trades)

Gaffney trade
Lloyd trade
Draft day trades
this trade

How does nobody else also notice this trend!?!?

dizzolve
05-24-2012, 12:31 PM
Heaven forbid some of us would want more than junk for someone who will likely start for the other team

All of you are rude as hell n somehow I'M on probation n get an infraction for saying "goobers"

sensibilities can be very delicate around here.

Remember these are not the fan's boards, they're the mods boards. And really they're just following the rules. The problem is the rules (some of em)

Kansas Bob
05-24-2012, 12:44 PM
I look for Denver to run the ball more to slow down the rush and protect Manning during the early part of the season so I think Denver WILL use a two back offense with Chris being the lead blocker for the running back. Also Gronk can catch the ball out of the backfield and run drawn when needed.
I really think at worse Denver gave up a cornerback that they would cut anyway for a fullback that Indy was probably going to cut anyway. People act like we traded our starting CB, we traded a DB that showed last season that he lacked a lot being much more than useable except on special teams and we have a lot of ST people to replace him. I look for Judie to have a better chance of making the final 53 than Vaughn did. I also think C-Gronk has a chance to make this team!

Kansas Bob
05-24-2012, 01:02 PM
Loll love the Smileys

And aside from us not using an FB this is SPOT ON

but we're obviously idiots who are just complaining Hoser...we're not allowed to have opinions...smh

CP if I could

Like you, this trade doesn't really bother me but I think it's a very fair statement to say that we yet again got the lesser end of the deal and that was more my point...

What trade has Elway made that we actually got the better end of...? And that's what concerns me, not this trade specifically

I feel like we always are gna get the lesser end of the deal with Elway (in trades) because that's all he's done so far (in terms of trades)

Gaffney trade
Lloyd trade
Draft day trades
this trade

How does nobody else also notice this trend!?!?
You are correct about your right to express you opinion! I have that same right.
To cover the trades you questioned:
Gaffney trade: We needed help in the DL and had plenty of WR (in Elway's opinion) the trade didn't work out. Where is Gaffney now?
Lloyd trade: If we had kept Lloyd the rest of the season he would still have went FA route and we would receive nothing. As is, we did get a draft choice and drafted Malik Jackson. We will see how that trade worked out in 2 or 3 years. The Rams gave us a fifth round selection for him, where is Lloyd now???
Draft day trades: We picked the player the front office wanted and didn't have to pay him first round money. Plus we received a fourth round pick that we could later use to move up in the third round and pick Hillman. Advantage Denver (IMO)
this trade: IMO Denver shipped out a player that wouldn't make the 53 man roster and received a player that has a better chance to make our 53 man roster. Advantage Denver (IMO)
I will be terribly shocked if Vaughn starts for Indy but he might make their roster as a backup (I really don't know who their CB's are) but if he starts for them, they will be lucky to win 3 games! He just isn't that quality CB that people make it sound like!
That is my opinion!

dizzolve
05-24-2012, 01:03 PM
I look for Denver to run the ball more to slow down the rush and protect Manning during the early part of the season so I think Denver WILL use a two back offense with Chris being the lead blocker for the running back. Also Gronk can catch the ball out of the backfield and run drawn when needed.
I really think at worse Denver gave up a cornerback that they would cut anyway for a fullback that Indy was probably going to cut anyway. People act like we traded our starting CB, we traded a DB that showed last season that he lacked a lot being much more than useable except on special teams and we have a lot of ST people to replace him. I look for Judie to have a better chance of making the final 53 than Vaughn did. I also think C-Gronk has a chance to make this team!

I agree. Passing game is obviously going to be at worst 'adequate'.

With Franklin over on the right side, I can see most between the tackle runs going that way - or any runs really. I love Franklin but he's still rough around the edges. Hope he doesn't end any team mates season's this year :) Clady needs to return to his rookie form. Having Manning could certainly help that happen.

We appear to have pass defense on the left side and run offense on the right as strengths. I wonder how long it takes before Blake can contribute

Im not sorry to see Vaughn go but for some reason I would be sad to see Squid get moved. Those 2 came in together didn't they?

crash123go
05-24-2012, 01:05 PM
Hopefully he has a good camp.

Just don't understand people who thought we got bad value when he would of been cut.

What do they seriously expect for Vaughn ? A round 2 pick ? lol

There's no way I would give up a 7th rounder for a teams 6/7th corner.

Denver and Indy were both probably going to cut these 2 but they swapped them because both teams may of needed competition at that position in camp.


I don't think he's over valuing Vaughn, he just has an accurate read on the value of Gronkowski, who is a scrub FB who couldn't get snaps on a very non-important position in the NFL outside of injuries to people ahead of him. Vaughn has size, speed, and athleticism at an important position. What does Gronkowski have exactly?
How is he not over valuing Vaughn? HE WASN'T GOING TO MAKE THE TEAM!!!!!! So instead of cutting him and getting nothing they traded him for a position with zero competition

crash123go
05-24-2012, 01:10 PM
I agree. Passing game is obviously going to be at worst 'adequate'.

With Franklin over on the right side, I can see most between the tackle runs going that way - or any runs really. I love Franklin but he's still rough around the edges. Hope he doesn't end any team mates season's this year :) Clady needs to return to his rookie form. Having Manning could certainly help that happen.

We appear to have pass defense on the left side and run offense on the right as strengths. I wonder how long it takes before Blake can contribute

Im not sorry to see Vaughn go but for some reason I would be sad to see Squid get moved. Those 2 came in together didn't they?

I wouldn't be surprised Blake takes over rather early in training camp, Walton may have a leg up in communication but Blake is better run blocker and can stand up against power rushers up the middle which we need with guys like Seymour, powe, cam Thomas and garay in our division, none are finnesse guys but all power and that's what Walton has trouble with

crash123go
05-24-2012, 01:14 PM
You are correct about your right to express you opinion! I have that same right.
To cover the trades you questioned:
Gaffney trade: We needed help in the DL and had plenty of WR (in Elway's opinion) the trade didn't work out. Where is Gaffney now?
Lloyd trade: If we had kept Lloyd the rest of the season he would still have went FA route and we would receive nothing. As is, we did get a draft choice and drafted Malik Jackson. We will see how that trade worked out in 2 or 3 years. The Rams gave us a fifth round selection for him, where is Lloyd now???
Draft day trades: We picked the player the front office wanted and didn't have to pay him first round money. Plus we received a fourth round pick that we could later use to move up in the third round and pick Hillman. Advantage Denver (IMO)
this trade: IMO Denver shipped out a player that wouldn't make the 53 man roster and received a player that has a better chance to make our 53 man roster. Advantage Denver (IMO)
I will be terribly shocked if Vaughn starts for Indy but he might make their roster as a backup (I really don't know who their CB's are) but if he starts for them, they will be lucky to win 3 games! He just isn't that quality CB that people make it sound like!
That is my opinion!

your opinion is the absolute right one, period. People think we are dealing unstoppable pro bowlers but in all reality we are making great football moves dishing guys that either A. Are not gonna make the roster or B. are gonna be free agents. As far as the draft is concerned we traded out of the first round to draft THE MOST PRODUCTIVE DT IN THIS DRAFT and got maybe the most explosive RB in this draft to boot

dizzolve
05-24-2012, 01:15 PM
I wouldn't be surprised Blake takes over rather early in training camp, Walton may have a leg up in communication but Blake is better run blocker and can stand up against power rushers up the middle which we need with guys like Seymour, powe, cam Thomas and garay in our division, none are finnesse guys but all power and that's what Walton has trouble with

The earlier this becomes a possibility the better since Manning is beginning his teachings NOW. Hate to give all reps to Walton if he's gonna get beat out anyhow. Walton made me scratch and shake my head more than a few times last year.

broncos SB2010
05-24-2012, 01:21 PM
I don't think he's over valuing Vaughn, he just has an accurate read on the value of Gronkowski, who is a scrub FB who couldn't get snaps on a very non-important position in the NFL outside of injuries to people ahead of him. Vaughn has size, speed, and athleticism at an important position. What does Gronkowski have exactly?

a job with the Broncos

Hoserman117
05-24-2012, 01:22 PM
How is he not over valuing Vaughn? HE WASN'T GOING TO MAKE THE TEAM!!!!!! So instead of cutting him and getting nothing they traded him for a position with zero competition

How do you know? He's a good returner, has a lot of athleticism, and has been with the team for a while. It's entirely possible he makes the team as a ST/Corner tweener seeing as Syd is coming off a bad injury. It's not unheard of for teams to keep 6 corners, especially in the current NFL and the list of QB's we're going to be facing this year.

Hoserman117
05-24-2012, 01:22 PM
[/B]

a job with the Broncos

That doesn't even come close to answering my question... he clearly does not have anything special, and has really not shown anything in his time in the NFL.

broncos SB2010
05-24-2012, 01:23 PM
How do you know? He's a good returner, has a lot of athleticism, and has been with the team for a while. It's entirely possible he makes the team as a ST/Corner tweener seeing as Syd is coming off a bad injury. It's not unheard of for teams to keep 6 corners, especially in the current NFL and the list of QB's we're going to be facing this year.

If he had a good shot at making the team and they thought he had good value to the team, they wouldn't have traded him.

#24 Next Champ
05-24-2012, 01:33 PM
How is he not over valuing Vaughn? HE WASN'T GOING TO MAKE THE TEAM!!!!!! So instead of cutting him and getting nothing they traded him for a position with zero competition

Just because you're crowded at the position doesn't mean the player is no good ...

Vaughn lost his confidence after some early struggles but he showed talent and has tons of athletic ability ...

Does James Jones and Randall Cobb suck?

No they just have Greg Jennings, Jordy Nelson, and Donald Driver in front of them so Jones barely sees the field and Cobb never does even though he could probably start in Cleveland or STL

Indy's CB situation is patheticcc ...so knowing how much Vaughn can help them (likely start) I don't feel we got good compensation

As I also feel we didn't get the better of any other Elway trade

Gaffney
Lloyd
Draft day etc yet again

crash123go
05-24-2012, 01:41 PM
Just because you're crowded at the position doesn't mean the player is no good ...

Vaughn lost his confidence after some early struggles but he showed talent and has tons of athletic ability ...

Does James Jones and Randall Cobb suck?

No they just have Greg Jennings, Jordy Nelson, and Donald Driver in front of them so Jones barely sees the field and Cobb never does even though he could probably start in Cleveland or STL

Indy's CB situation is patheticcc ...so knowing how much Vaughn can help them (likely start) I don't feel we got good compensation

As I also feel we didn't get the better of any other Elway trade

Gaffney
Lloyd
Draft day etc yet again

Dude your not getting it, your not listening to anyone else. Gaffney was gonna be a FA and wasn't coming back, Lloyd was gonna be a FA and wasn't coming back and cassius vaughn wasn't going to make the team so why keep them? We're you in the room with elway when he made all those trades? How do you know that's all that we were going to get for any of those players

crash123go
05-24-2012, 01:44 PM
How do you know? He's a good returner, has a lot of athleticism, and has been with the team for a while. It's entirely possible he makes the team as a ST/Corner tweener seeing as Syd is coming off a bad injury. It's not unheard of for teams to keep 6 corners, especially in the current NFL and the list of QB's we're going to be facing this year.

Because we have amazing depth at A LOT of positions and more talented players then Vaughn

Hoserman117
05-24-2012, 01:48 PM
Dude your not getting it, your not listening to anyone else. Gaffney was gonna be a FA and wasn't coming back, Lloyd was gonna be a FA and wasn't coming back and cassius vaughn wasn't going to make the team so why keep them? We're you in the room with elway when he made all those trades? How do you know that's all that we were going to get for any of those players

Gaffney wasn't coming back? That was never something that was going around. We traded him and he a good year in Washington. Also... Lloyd wasn't coming back? We have Peyton Manning, he wanted out because of Tebow. You're saying Lloyd wouldn't still be here after the Peyton Manning signing? Yeah right.

And I don't think he's saying we should have been able to get more, it's that we accepted really bad value, and would have been better off not taking those trades. Just because you have trade offers on the table doesn't mean you are forced to accept them unless a high profile player is trying to force himself off your team, which was not the case in either of these situations.

Again, how do you know Cassius isn't making the team? It's not uncommon to keep 6 CB's, and Syd is coming off a bad achilles injury. I think we would have been better off just holding on to Vaughn through TC, and then if he doesn't make him, cut him. IMO Gronkowski is not going to make any impact on this team whatsoever.

Hoserman117
05-24-2012, 01:50 PM
If he had a good shot at making the team and they thought he had good value to the team, they wouldn't have traded him.

There's a difference between thinking and knowing. None of this stuff is 'known', it's what they think. They have no idea how TC would have actually gone, and while they have a better idea than me, all FO's make mistakes and missteps, and there have been more than a few times the past several years where I (and lots of other fans) wanted differently from the FO, and it turns out the fans were right.

There are plenty of cases where the FO does something the fans think is wrong and it turns out to be great, I get that, but all I'm saying is that just because the FO does it, doesn't mean it's foolproof and we should just all accept it as a great idea because they're so smart.

Hoserman117
05-24-2012, 01:51 PM
Because we have amazing depth at A LOT of positions and more talented players then Vaughn

We could easily keep 6 corners, if we do, it comes down to Vaughn vs an undersized guy coming off an Achilles tear. I love Syd, but it's not impossible to think he's not the same after his injury. You can't honestly think we're going to get a ton out of Gronkowski.

crash123go
05-24-2012, 02:05 PM
Gaffney wasn't coming back? That was never something that was going around. We traded him and he a good year in Washington. Also... Lloyd wasn't coming back? We have Peyton Manning, he wanted out because of Tebow. You're saying Lloyd wouldn't still be here after the Peyton Manning signing? Yeah right.

And I don't think he's saying we should have been able to get more, it's that we accepted really bad value, and would have been better off not taking those trades. Just because you have trade offers on the table doesn't mean you are forced to accept them unless a high profile player is trying to force himself off your team, which was not the case in either of these situations.

Again, how do you know Cassius isn't making the team? It's not uncommon to keep 6 CB's, and Syd is coming off a bad achilles injury. I think we would have been better off just holding on to Vaughn through TC, and then if he doesn't make him, cut him. IMO Gronkowski is not going to make any impact on this team whatsoever.

You know how I know they weren't coming back??? Cause they were traded, the team didn't want them due to depth, age or just the decision that they wanted to go in a different direction. Instead of a 6th cb, who was extremely injury prone which no one has brought up, we now have a FB to run the power I with

crash123go
05-24-2012, 02:07 PM
We could easily keep 6 corners, if we do, it comes down to Vaughn vs an undersized guy coming off an Achilles tear. I love Syd, but it's not impossible to think he's not the same after his injury. You can't honestly think we're going to get a ton out of Gronkowski.

He's a FB, you don't get anything but a lead blocker. He's a big time upgrade over in Larsen in the run game

#24 Next Champ
05-24-2012, 02:10 PM
We could easily keep 6 corners, if we do, it comes down to Vaughn vs an undersized guy coming off an Achilles tear. I love Syd, but it's not impossible to think he's not the same after his injury. You can't honestly think we're going to get a ton out of Gronkowski.

Not to mention the injury factor ...what if we have two serious injuries to our CB's ahead of him? Now Vaughn is already gone ...

You get it...they don't

N defend Elway's trades all you want fellas but the one that simply can't be is the draft day trades...

Ravens made essentially the same type of trade but with a pick a couple spots later than us yet somehow got ahead of us AND gained an extra pick when we only swapped 4th's for a 1st...

?? Lol you guys gonna explain that one too

Cuz I can, Ozzie Newsome knows how to make trades

I like Elway, don't get me wrong, I do...but his trades have not been good, period

This one isn't a big deal as much as it's a continuation of us getting the lesser side of a deal which anyone who isn't a super Elway fan with Elway-colored glasses on/sarcasm can see and this continues to happen n obviously I hope it stops but I don't see a reason why it would

Elway seems to get bullied (in whatever fashion, maybe it's buddy-buddy manipulation DON'T think for a second he's above that, he's a former player, if anything he's an ideal canidate for that) in trade discussions n I just hope it stops

N say what you want, I'm definitely not the only one who's questioned his trades (many analysts have as well)

getlynched47
05-24-2012, 02:11 PM
He's a FB, you don't get anything but a lead blocker. He's a big time upgrade over in Larsen in the run game

Chris Gronkowski is actually a Spencer Larsen clone, only less experienced as a starting NFL fullback and not a specials teams ace like Larsen.

That's coming from somebody who wanted Larsen to be replaced since he became our starting fullback.

#24 Next Champ
05-24-2012, 02:12 PM
You know how I know they weren't coming back??? Cause they were traded, the team didn't want them due to depth, age or just the decision that they wanted to go in a different direction. Instead of a 6th cb, who was extremely injury prone which no one has brought up, we now have a FB to run the power I with

Gaffney had 70 catches (with no good QB play either)

Jarmon I'm not sure registered a stat last year

And wow, now Cassius is all the sudden "extremely injury prone" lol really?

crash123go
05-24-2012, 02:17 PM
Gaffney had 70 catches (with no good QB play either)

Jarmon I'm not sure registered a stat last year

And wow, now Cassius is all the sudden "extremely injury prone" lol really?

He's been in the league 3 years 2 ended on injured reserve and his first year he didn't play. I'm done arguing over a scrub cb that wasn't gonna make the team, I mean you people act like we traded champ

#24 Next Champ
05-24-2012, 02:20 PM
He's been in the league 3 years 2 ended on injured reserve and his first year he didn't play. I'm done arguing over a scrub cb that wasn't gonna make the team, I mean you people act like we traded champ

No I'm not acting like we traded Champ I'm just showing you the decision they made to trade Gaffney made no and was a bad trade AS WERE all the trades Elway's made so far n that's what I'm more trying to point at

It's not about this trade, it's about how every one of his trades has not yielded proper compensation

jonathanrivers
05-24-2012, 02:22 PM
"What if" all 5 of our tight ends get hurt?!?!?!?!?

Man!!! OMG!!! Should have gotten Dallas Clark and Kellen Winslow when we had the chance.

"What if" Weber, Hanie and Osweiler all get hurt?!?!?!? Man! Should have kept Tebow.

The fact of the matter is, Vaughn wasn't going to be on the roster. I thought that was fairly obvious given that we have 5 CB's already (not counting Syd).

Sure, one or two could always get hurt. But that's with every friggin' position.

Hoserman117
05-24-2012, 02:32 PM
You know how I know they weren't coming back??? Cause they were traded, the team didn't want them due to depth, age or just the decision that they wanted to go in a different direction. Instead of a 6th cb, who was extremely injury prone which no one has brought up, we now have a FB to run the power I with

That isn't even close to what you implied. You said they were becoming FA's and weren't coming back like they had told the FA that they had already decided to not re-sign with Denver when their contracts were up and told the FO.

Gaffney was an awful trade and you know it. Lloyd will likely be a bad trade unless Jackson turns out to be really good, I suppose we won't know for a while. Either way, Lloyd would still be here this season with our signing of Manning. He was happy in Denver with Orton, and upset when Tebow came in. He would have stayed for PM.


He's a FB, you don't get anything but a lead blocker. He's a big time upgrade over in Larsen in the run game

No... he is not. He's a decent lead blocker with very little versatility. Here's Rotoworlds take on the trade....


Broncos acquired FB Chris Gronkowski from the Colts in exchange for CB/KR Cassius Vaughn.

Vaughn might not have made the Broncos, but he has quite a bit more NFL potential than Gronkowski. Rob's much less talented brother, Gronkowski is a 6-foot-2, 245-pound lead blocker who struggles mightily in pass protection and has seven career receptions over two seasons. Fullbacks haven't been historically used much in Peyton Manning's offenses, so the move is a bit curious on Denver's part. Gronkowski will battle for a roster spot in camp.

I'm not speaking their word as gospel, but it does go along with what I think the trade was... an overall bad move. Just because they're small name players doesn't mean the trades can't make a difference. Supposed 'scrub' players turn into studs in the NFL all the time, and when you're dealing with small name players, I think you should keep great potential and athleticism over a backup fullback that couldn't get snaps on the NFL's worst team last year.

getlynched47
05-24-2012, 02:33 PM
No I'm not acting like we traded Champ I'm just showing you the decision they made to trade Gaffney made no and was a bad trade AS WERE all the trades Elway's made so far n that's what I'm more trying to point at

It's not about this trade, it's about how every one of his trades has not yielded proper compensation

Proper compensation according to..........who/what?

Hoserman117
05-24-2012, 02:33 PM
"What if" all 5 of our tight ends get hurt?!?!?!?!?

Man!!! OMG!!! Should have gotten Dallas Clark and Kellen Winslow when we had the chance.

"What if" Weber, Hanie and Osweiler all get hurt?!?!?!? Man! Should have kept Tebow.

The fact of the matter is, Vaughn wasn't going to be on the roster. I thought that was fairly obvious given that we have 5 CB's already (not counting Syd).

Sure, one or two could always get hurt. But that's with every friggin' position.

You're being intentionally thick headed when it comes to this discussion. The argument is that Vaughn has true high level potential and athleticism, and it doesn't make sense to give that away for a backup FB.

Hoserman117
05-24-2012, 02:35 PM
Proper compensation according to..........who/what?

Gaffney is already clearly a bad trade. No argument can be made there.

Lloyd trade I suppose depends on how Malik Jackson turns out, but I can't blame the FO much for that trade. Nobody was going to give much for Lloyd. I would have held onto him though, he would have re-signed here after we nabbed PM.

Draft day trades just numbers wise according to draft charts and most experts were bad value, and I'd tend to agree, considering teams that made moves in close proxmity to ours in the draft got much better value. However I suppose in 5 years if it turns out we got a bunch of studs it wont matter.

#24 Next Champ
05-24-2012, 02:36 PM
You're being intentionally thick headed when it comes to this discussion. The argument is that Vaughn has true high level potential and athleticism, and it doesn't make sense to give that away for a backup FB.

Exactly..

And to GetLynched, it's in my opinion (and a good amount of others)

Do you think he's made good trades?

broncos SB2010
05-24-2012, 02:36 PM
You're being intentionally thick headed when it comes to this discussion. The argument is that Vaughn has true high level potential and athleticism, and it doesn't make sense to give that away for a backup FB.

No. He doesn't.

#24 Next Champ
05-24-2012, 02:38 PM
Gaffney is already clearly a bad trade. No argument can be made there.

Lloyd trade I suppose depends on how Malik Jackson turns out, but I can't blame the FO much for that trade. Nobody was going to give much for Lloyd. I would have held onto him though, he would have re-signed here after we nabbed PM.

Draft day trades just numbers wise according to draft charts and most experts were bad value, and I'd tend to agree, considering teams that made moves in close proxmity to ours in the draft got much better value. However I suppose in 5 years if it turns out we got a bunch of studs it wont matter.

Couldn't have said it better than one of the best poster(s) on here just did

:salute

Hoserman117
05-24-2012, 02:40 PM
No. He doesn't.

He has legitimate 4.3 speed, ideal size at 5'11 195, and flashed potential in the offseason as he got himself as high as the #3 guy on the depth chart, until injuries and slip ups in gametime dropped him down the depth chart. He was a dynamic kick returner, and grabbed himself a pick six last year, and he's just in his second year.

Look what Victor Cruz did last year. I bet plenty of Giants were dismissing him as a pre-season wonder who won't actually become anything. You can't pass up talent in the NFL, because studs can come from anywhere. Gronkowski's ceiling is a decent FB, a position rarely used in the NFL.

This was a bad trade. Arguing it just doesn't make sense IMO.

#24 Next Champ
05-24-2012, 02:40 PM
No. He doesn't.

Why? 5'11 CB with 4.3 speed n good hips

He needs work, he needs film study, he needs technique, and he needs a bit of confidence

But he has the potential to be a good starter (even a great starter) if he gets those parts of his game down...you can teach/learn those things though

You can't teach/learn 4.3 speed, good height, and good hips

ERoyal248
05-24-2012, 02:44 PM
Vaughn would of been our 5th-6th CB, at least we got something for him.

Some fans overrated the heck out of some players like he's the next Deion Sanders.

getlynched47
05-24-2012, 02:47 PM
Why? 5'11 CB with 4.3 speed n good hips

He needs work, he needs film study, he needs technique, and he needs a bit of confidence

But he has the potential to be a good starter (even a great starter) if he gets those parts of his game down...you can teach/learn those things though

You can't teach/learn 4.3 speed, good height, and good hips

Karl Paymah.

Hoserman117
05-24-2012, 02:48 PM
Vaughn would of been our 5th-6th CB, at least we got something for him.

Some fans overrated the heck out of some players like he's the next Deion Sanders.

Nobody has said he'd even be close to that, and yeah, we'll probably keep 6 CB's, he could have made the roster. Gronkowski, even if he makes the roster, would be at best, an average FB. Those can be found anywhere. Vaughn had potential and great athleticism. Between very talented young corner and below average talent, young fullback, the corner wins 10/10.

Hoserman117
05-24-2012, 02:49 PM
Karl Paymah.

Ooh, you picked an example of an athletic corner that didn't do well. Let me find a cupcake while I go through the list of 8,000 fullbacks with no talent to speak of that have blown up the NFL.

getlynched47
05-24-2012, 02:51 PM
Ooh, you picked an example of an athletic corner that didn't do well. Let me find a cupcake while I go through the list of 8,000 fullbacks with no talent to speak of that have blown up the NFL.

I'm not defending Chris Gronkowski or Cassius Vaughn.

I don't like Gronkowski. I like Cassius Vaughn and said earlier that I believe he will develop into a solid starter for the Colts.

But just because our trash MAY become the Indianapolis Colts' treasure doesn't mean that it was a trade with terrible value.

#24 Next Champ
05-24-2012, 02:51 PM
Vaughn would of been our 5th-6th CB, at least we got something for him.

Some fans overrated the heck out of some players like he's the next Deion Sanders.

I'd be super-pissed if I thought we gave away the next "Prime"

Idc that we gave away Vaughn, I care that we consistently get the lesser end of trades

I care that we consistently get the lesser of trades

I care that we consistently get the lesser end of trades

Jeez

ERoyal248
05-24-2012, 02:52 PM
Nobody has said he'd even be close to that, and yeah, we'll probably keep 6 CB's, he could have made the roster. Gronkowski, even if he makes the roster, would be at best, an average FB. Those can be found anywhere. Vaughn had potential and great athleticism. Between very talented young corner and below average talent, young fullback, the corner wins 10/10.

No one knows if he would of made it, we don't have a FB.

- We cut Goodman, our #2 CB last year.
- Signed Porter.
- Signed Florence.
- Drafted Bolden.

Clearly the FO thought we needed better CB's.

Vaughn has "potential" but got burned when he started.

#24 Next Champ
05-24-2012, 02:53 PM
Karl Paymah.

Karl Paymah was abysmal and I never liked him, in fact I hated him ...

Vaughn has shown he can hang ...he had some tough times but because he wasn't TECHNICALLY a rookie which he really essentially was .. he got cut no slack n after a few bad plays, everyone was calling for his head ..

Hoserman117
05-24-2012, 02:54 PM
I'm not defending Chris Gronkowski or Cassius Vaughn.

I don't like Gronkowski. I like Cassius Vaughn and said earlier that I believe he will develop into a solid starter for the Colts.

But just because our trash MAY become the Indianapolis Colts' treasure doesn't mean that it was a trade with terrible value.

It was high potential at a very important position for an insanely low potential least important NFL position swap, it was bad value.

ERoyal248
05-24-2012, 02:55 PM
I'd be super-pissed if I thought we gave away the next "Prime"

Idc that we gave away Vaughn, I care that we consistently get the lesser end of trades

I care that we consistently get the lesser of trades

I care that we consistently get the lesser end of trades

Jeez

- Gaffney, yes.
- Lloyd, depends how Malik Jackson does.
- Draft trades depend how the draft pans out.

Vaughn is ok, and has potential, we had one FB on the roster, and needed better depth.

#24 Next Champ
05-24-2012, 02:55 PM
Karl Paymah was abysmal and I never liked him, in fact I hated him ...

Vaughn has shown he can hang ...he had some tough times but because he wasn't TECHNICALLY a rookie which he really essentially was .. he got cut no slack n after a few bad plays, everyone was calling for his head ..

To be clear I "hated him" as a player on the field, obviously not as a person but I don't like saying I hate people

Hoserman117
05-24-2012, 02:55 PM
No one knows if he would of made it, we don't have a FB.

- We cut Goodman, our #2 CB last year.
- Signed Porter.
- Signed Florence.
- Drafted Bolden.

Clearly the FO thought we needed better CB's.

Vaughn has "potential" but got burned when he started.

Yeah well Gronkowski has almost no potential, got his QB killed when he started, and didn't start at all last year for the worst team in the NFL.

SWEEEEEET

ERoyal248
05-24-2012, 02:57 PM
Yeah well Gronkowski has almost no potential, got his QB killed when he started, and didn't start at all last year for the worst team in the NFL.

SWEEEEEET

And Vaughn got burned when he started, he's the next Champ Bailey.

BOOOOOOOOOOOO ELWAY!!

#24 Next Champ
05-24-2012, 02:58 PM
It was high potential at a very important position for an insanely low potential least important NFL position swap, it was bad value.

Again, bingo ...

Randall Cobb is the Packers 5th WR...(Vaughn is our 6th CB)

Does that mean he (Cobb) sucks? Should they just give him away for a nobody safety because they need help there?

#24 Next Champ
05-24-2012, 03:03 PM
And Vaughn got burned when he started, he's the next Champ Bailey.

BOOOOOOOOOOOO ELWAY!!

He had a pick-six vs Phillip Rivers and two big Kick returns including another TD

Should've had two TD's on returns but our own guy got in his way n got him tripped up by the last guy vs NYJ

So almost 3 TD's for a scrub corner

That's more catches than Gronk had last year (granted he's not a receiving FB) but still

I think Elway just was so amazed by Gronk he wanted to see what his bro can do even though he sucks ...

Personally, no biggy, idc

Except for the fact that it's yet another trade we got the lesser of (I think we could've gotten more/better from Indy) or even another team desperate at CB

ERoyal248
05-24-2012, 03:03 PM
Again, bingo ...

Randall Cobb is the Packers 5th WR...(Vaughn is our 6th CB)

Does that mean he (Cobb) sucks? Should they just give him away for a nobody safety because they need help there?

One, Cobb was drafted in the 2nd round, not an UDFA like Vaughn.

Two, this is probably Driver's last year, and Cobb is 4th-5th.

Not a fair comparison.

#24 Next Champ
05-24-2012, 03:11 PM
One, Cobb was drafted in the 2nd round, not an UDFA like Vaughn.

Two, this is probably Driver's last year, and Cobb is 4th-5th.

Not a fair comparison.

I'll admit, it is a bit different but you get the jist ...

Cruz was a UFDA that was last on the Giants WR depth chart a couple years ago ...again I know he had a great preseason but still...you get the jist

If you're loaded at a position it doesn't mean you just give away a solid player or a player with potential

If the rest of Elway's trades had been good I would not care AT ALL...If Belicheck makes this trade you say "eh whatever"

But he didn't, Elway (who's made nothing but bad trades WHEN IT COMES TO TRADES) made it n I can't help but be concerned that the guy just continues to make bad trade after bad trade and I'm POSITIVE NFL GM's have taken notice n now it'll be really hard for him to ever get fair compensation cuz we've continued to get worked in trade discussions

You think NFL GM's/Owners don't have their little circle and say "Hey man, you see what the Bucs did to the Broncos ...lol we need to call them"

You bet your backside they do

SmokeBassett
05-24-2012, 04:36 PM
Vaughn was a developmental CB, but he gave us some badly needed speed at safety. Our secondary just got slower, and Indy's just got faster.

SmokeBassett
05-24-2012, 04:38 PM
Karl Paymah was abysmal and I never liked him, in fact I hated him ...

Vaughn has shown he can hang ...he had some tough times but because he wasn't TECHNICALLY a rookie which he really essentially was .. he got cut no slack n after a few bad plays, everyone was calling for his head ..

Both were developmental players whom the Broncos did a bad job developing.

beastlyskronk
05-24-2012, 04:43 PM
The whole trade indicates to me that we do in fact plan to run the ball quite a bit more than what Manning did in Indy. And with McGahee, Hillman, Moreno, Fannin, Johnson, Ball on our roster why shouldn't we? To me I think our RB position is much stronger than what we have at WR. Our o-line is clearly better at run blocking than they are at pass blocking, Virgil Green was a terrific blocker at TE last year. Add in the fact that Manning's health will stay in question for the rest of his career, this would be a move to try and prolong his career.

It also tells me that the coaching staff is confident in our younger CBs. Actually I don't think there is a whole lot of difference between Cassius Vaughn and Coryell Judie. Similar size and speed, similar playing styles and actually had Judie not been hurt this year he probably would have been taken around round 3 or 4 maybe even higher.

johnlimburg
05-24-2012, 05:35 PM
I love how anyone who disagrees with "certain" people is made out to be an idiot ...

What the hell is your guys' problem? You don't have to be completely rude it's a damn discussion forum

N to be clear I'm not whining or complaining about anything, because it's not a big deal... I made a simple point that I think they got the better end of the deal like every team that has traded with us since we've had Elway in the FO

SORRY FOR HAVING AN OPINION...damn you guys are rude

I guess you are refering to me? I didn't say an idiot. I just said I hope this thread is people being pathetic when it came to the trade because there is zero reason to.

He had some nice returns but early in the year he got beat up. Some may say he had a nagging injury or whatever but what I saw was he wasn't all that great. He got relegated to the bench. If this trade was Chris Harris then I would be super pissed. But it isn't. He was not going to make the team over who we have so going and getting a player to compete in camp is fine.

On the Elway trades well when you look at them the Gaffney one was a bad move but clearly a salary dump. So instead of cutting him and eating a chunk of change they got rid of him without paying him. Then the draft day trades were fine and so many couldn't grasp the idea that the reason for it was the new rules in the CBA and it was all across the NFL. Not just Denver. The Lloyd trade was weak as well but he didn't wanna play with Tebow period and it seemed he wasn't going to resign. But still Lloyd got undervalued also. This trade is fine. Period. Cry all you want but you thinking Vaughn is some great prospect and some great player is all in your head. NFL disagreed when he went undrafted and the Broncos feel otherwise. Right or wrong it is up in the air but based off of everything he has shown so far the trade was fair.

And I liked Vaughn. I would have prefered to keep him. However in saying that he wasn't going to make the team it seemed and this way we get a fullback to compete in camp. An actual lead blocker. And I will say it again we will need a fullback. People are enamoured with thinking this will be a pass happy offense with 80% throwing. But I think we should and will still run the ball a good amount of the time. Take the pressure off Manning and make it known he doesn't have to be the main source of offense all game long. And some say it will be more difficult to run the ball without Tebow. However I think it will be fine. We wont be facing 8 and 9 men in the box.


And this way Vaughn gets a legit chance to go and compete for a team and make an impact some where else. I hope he goes on to have a good career. He seemed like a nice guy and hopefully he does have success.

broncos SB2010
05-24-2012, 05:42 PM
Karl Paymah.

exactly. All I keep hearing is 4.3 speed...blah blah blah.....how many guys are there out there who are fast but don't have the instincts or talent to play at a high level. So many people here see a guy run fast, make 2 plays and they think he has pro bowl potential....ridiculous.

broncos SB2010
05-24-2012, 05:45 PM
He has legitimate 4.3 speed, ideal size at 5'11 195, and flashed potential in the offseason as he got himself as high as the #3 guy on the depth chart, until injuries and slip ups in gametime dropped him down the depth chart. He was a dynamic kick returner, and grabbed himself a pick six last year, and he's just in his second year.

Look what Victor Cruz did last year. I bet plenty of Giants were dismissing him as a pre-season wonder who won't actually become anything. You can't pass up talent in the NFL, because studs can come from anywhere. Gronkowski's ceiling is a decent FB, a position rarely used in the NFL.

This was a bad trade. Arguing it just doesn't make sense IMO.

The only reason he was #3 was because the only competition was harris and Thompson...both rookies...who he eventually lost his job to. He wouldn't make #3 CB on probably 30 teams in the league.

broncos SB2010
05-24-2012, 05:48 PM
Nobody has said he'd even be close to that, and yeah, we'll probably keep 6 CB's, he could have made the roster. Gronkowski, even if he makes the roster, would be at best, an average FB. Those can be found anywhere. Vaughn had potential and great athleticism. Between very talented young corner and below average talent, young fullback, the corner wins 10/10.

Why do you keep insisting Vaughn is a very talented young CB? At his best, he is mediocre. You say he could have made the team as the #6 CB? WOW!!! A VERY talented young CB all the way down at #6???

Iron Clady
05-24-2012, 06:22 PM
I don't know why this has been such a heated argument. It was highly unlikely that Vaughn was going to make the team. We're keeping Champ, Porter, Florence, Bolden, and Harris. That's all we may keep. IF we keep 6 CBs I don't think there is much of a difference between him and Judie. I think Judie may actually have better potential. We may also keep Rafael Bush. He can play S, CB, and ST. That's good versatility.

Gronk probably isn't going to make the team. If he does he may be a rental player for a few weeks before Virgil Green comes back and plays a TE/FB combo role. This trade is pretty irrelevant in my opinion.

Remedy
05-24-2012, 06:26 PM
I don't know why this has been such a heated argument. It was highly unlikely that Vaughn was going to make the team. We're keeping Champ, Porter, Florence, Bolden, and Harris. That's all we may keep. IF we keep 6 CBs I don't think there is much of a difference between him and Judie. I think Judie may actually have better potential. We may also keep Rafael Bush. He can play S, CB, and ST. That's good versatility.

Gronk probably isn't going to make the team. If he does he may be a rental player for a few weeks before Virgil Green comes back and plays a TE/FB combo role. This trade is pretty irrelevant in my opinion.

There isn't much going on this time of year.. OTA's are just starting and even then there isnt a lot of information coming out. So you have a ravenous, emotional, excited fan base with little to talk about. ;)

SBboundBRONCOS
05-24-2012, 06:33 PM
No I'm not acting like we traded Champ I'm just showing you the decision they made to trade Gaffney made no and was a bad trade AS WERE all the trades Elway's made so far n that's what I'm more trying to point at

It's not about this trade, it's about how every one of his trades has not yielded proper compensation

what exactly is your definition of proper compensation

YOU think cassius had some value, most in the league dont see it that way

#24 Next Champ
05-24-2012, 06:36 PM
Why do you keep insisting Vaughn is a very talented young CB? At his best, he is mediocre. You say he could have made the team as the #6 CB? WOW!!! A VERY talented young CB all the way down at #6???

I guess Randall Cobb sucks too then ...

Great argument

beastlyskronk
05-24-2012, 06:40 PM
I guess Randall Cobb sucks too then ...

Great argument

This isn't a good comparison as Cobb was actually drafted, in the 2nd round in fact. A more accurate comparison I feel would be saying that Eric Weems sucks because he was the 5th WR on the Falcons. Actually I think that is a perfect comparison. Both are good special teams players, no doubt, but returners have a very short shelf life in the NFL and can really be cycled year in and year out.

BroncoFanNC
05-24-2012, 07:36 PM
Vaughn was a developmental CB, but he gave us some badly needed speed at safety. Our secondary just got slower, and Indy's just got faster.

He's plays Safety? That's news to me....

BroncoFanNC
05-24-2012, 07:44 PM
At least he's flexible guys.

http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site36/2012/0523/20120523_110433_fullback-chris-gronkowski-052312.jpg

broncos SB2010
05-24-2012, 07:48 PM
I guess Randall Cobb sucks too then ...

Great argument

Your post makes zero sense.

Hoserman117
05-24-2012, 08:23 PM
Why do you keep insisting Vaughn is a very talented young CB? At his best, he is mediocre. You say he could have made the team as the #6 CB? WOW!!! A VERY talented young CB all the way down at #6???

Because he IS talented. Victor Cruz was dead last on the Giants depth chart a little over a year ago. WOW he must suck right??!!?!

This argument is plain and simple. Gronkowski is not special in any way, he is below average athletically, he plays fullback, and his skillset can easily be found picking through the UDFA's out there.

Vaughn was a young, long, fast corner, who has made plays for us in the return game, special teams, as well as getting his hand on the ball every once in a while (55 yard pick six last year).

I'm not hearing anybody debate the fact that this was a really bad trade. Nobody has once tried to say Gronkowski is any good, because you guys know he isn't, and for some weird reason just keep trying to argue and say that Vaughn sucks. There's nothing wrong with saying a trade was bad. If you have eyes in your head and a brain with spinning wheels it is EASY to see that we LOST talent in this trade.

beastlyskronk
05-24-2012, 08:35 PM
Because he IS talented. Victor Cruz was dead last on the Giants depth chart a little over a year ago. WOW he must suck right??!!?!

This argument is plain and simple. Gronkowski is not special in any way, he is below average athletically, he plays fullback, and his skillset can easily be found picking through the UDFA's out there.

Vaughn was a young, long, fast corner, who has made plays for us in the return game, special teams, as well as getting his hand on the ball every once in a while (55 yard pick six last year).

I'm not hearing anybody debate the fact that this was a really bad trade. Nobody has once tried to say Gronkowski is any good, because you guys know he isn't, and for some weird reason just keep trying to argue and say that Vaughn sucks. There's nothing wrong with saying a trade was bad. If you have eyes in your head and a brain with spinning wheels it is EASY to see that we LOST talent in this trade.

You can't get equal value for a player that will likely be cut anyway, especially when other teams already know that. Chances are if you're looking to trade a player, you don't want him on the team, if he's the 5th or 6th CB on your depth chart and you're looking to trade him, chances are you will cut him if you can't find any trade partners. It's better to get something in return instead of nothing.

BroncoFanNC
05-24-2012, 08:43 PM
Because he IS talented. Victor Cruz was dead last on the Giants depth chart a little over a year ago. WOW he must suck right??!!?!

This argument is plain and simple. Gronkowski is not special in any way, he is below average athletically, he plays fullback, and his skillset can easily be found picking through the UDFA's out there.

Vaughn was a young, long, fast corner, who has made plays for us in the return game, special teams, as well as getting his hand on the ball every once in a while (55 yard pick six last year).

I'm not hearing anybody debate the fact that this was a really bad trade. Nobody has once tried to say Gronkowski is any good, because you guys know he isn't, and for some weird reason just keep trying to argue and say that Vaughn sucks. There's nothing wrong with saying a trade was bad. If you have eyes in your head and a brain with spinning wheels it is EASY to see that we LOST talent in this trade.

Asante Samuel was traded for a 7th round pick. That puts Vaughn's value next to bag of Cheetos, or Chris Gronkowski.

roushmartin6
05-24-2012, 08:43 PM
Not sure why everyone is getting bent out of shape. He had his chance, looked ok at first then kept getting torched and got benched for Chris Harris. He was ok at returning kicks but for every amazing kick return he had, he had 5 bone head returns where he should have taken a knee. He wasn't giong to make the team with all the corners we brought in, heck he even got a chance in the first ota, they must have said nope, lets get some competition at fullback to see if its worth keeping one or going with more tight ends. He might start for the Colts but thats more of a statement on the talent level they have during their complete rebuild.

Hoserman117
05-24-2012, 08:44 PM
You can't get equal value for a player that will likely be cut anyway, especially when other teams already know that. Chances are if you're looking to trade a player, you don't want him on the team, if he's the 5th or 6th CB on your depth chart and you're looking to trade him, chances are you will cut him if you can't find any trade partners. It's better to get something in return instead of nothing.

Then we shouldn't have traded him for a horrible player who is going to get cut anyways. You don't trade away talent for crap, you're better off holding onto him and seeing what happens in training camp.

Hoserman117
05-24-2012, 08:48 PM
This just sort feels like the last time we traded a corner for a Gronkowski. If anybody has been paying attention, I hated that trade as well, and Alphonso Smith has had 8 INT's and 2 TD's for the Lions since then.

roushmartin6
05-24-2012, 08:50 PM
This just sort feels like the last time we traded a corner for a Gronkowski. If anybody has been paying attention, I hated that trade as well, and Alphonso Smith has had 8 INT's and 2 TD's for the Lions since then.

And he too is on the trade block it seems

Hoserman117
05-24-2012, 08:50 PM
Asante Samuel was traded for a 7th round pick. That puts Vaughn's value next to bag of Cheetos, or Chris Gronkowski.

Get real man, you know the reason he fetched a 7th was because his bloated, enormous, overly inflated contract combined with his age.

BroncoFanNC
05-24-2012, 08:54 PM
This just sort feels like the last time we traded a corner for a Gronkowski. If anybody has been paying attention, I hated that trade as well, and Alphonso Smith has had 8 INT's and 2 TD's for the Lions since then.

You mean this guy?


For the second time in his three-year career, Alphonso Smith is on the trading block.

The Lions are willing to trade Smith, a cornerback who played 11 games for them last year, and have shopped him to at least one team, NFL Network’s Jason La Canfora reports.

BroncoFanNC
05-24-2012, 08:56 PM
Get real man, you know the reason he fetched a 7th was because his bloated, enormous, overly inflated contract combined with his age.

So you are saying, a team wanted to unload a player, so he was had for a 7th,

Another team wants to unload a player, who is far less talented, and he is had for whatever is worse than a 7th, ie. Gronk #3

Hoserman117
05-24-2012, 08:57 PM
You mean this guy?

Yeah you're right, I really wish we had another useless zero production Gronkowski as opposed to a corner capable of nabbing 8 picks in two years.

Hoserman117
05-24-2012, 08:58 PM
So you are saying, a team wanted to unload a player, so he was had for a 7th,

Another team wants to unload a player, who is far less talented, and he is had for whatever is worse than a 7th, ie. Gronk #3

No, a team had to unload a player because his salary was extremely detrimental to their team, and they were already stacked at the position. Teams knew this, and leveraged it into horrible compensation.

We on the other hand, gave away free talent, for crap.

BroncoFanNC
05-24-2012, 09:12 PM
No, a team had to unload a player because his salary was extremely detrimental to their team, and they were already stacked at the position. Teams knew this, and leveraged it into horrible compensation.

We on the other hand, gave away free talent, for crap.

How is that not the Broncos right now?

We subtracted Andre Goodman, added Bolden, Porter and Florence.

That tell's me the Broncos were not happy with the CB's on the roster, considering we added 3 new guys and only subtracted 1 so far. I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess it wasn't Champ or Chris Harris they were looking to replace....

Hoserman117
05-24-2012, 09:20 PM
How is that not the Broncos right now?

We subtracted Andre Goodman, added Bolden, Porter and Florence.

That tell's me the Broncos were not happy with the CB's on the roster, considering we added 3 new guys and only subtracted 1 so far. I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess it wasn't Champ or Chris Harris they were looking to replace....

It's different because there was no giant contract pushing us to release him.

johnlimburg
05-24-2012, 10:10 PM
Hoserman is serious here :laugh:

beastlyskronk
05-24-2012, 10:10 PM
Then we shouldn't have traded him for a horrible player who is going to get cut anyways. You don't trade away talent for crap, you're better off holding onto him and seeing what happens in training camp.

Gronkowski and Sylvester are the only FBs on the team right now. Sylvester wasn't on the active roster last year and only showed flashes throughout camp but he couldn't beat out Spencer Larsen. Gronkowski has a great chance of making the team. Virgil Green is not a FB despite what everyone here seems to believe, just because he's good at blocking from the TE position does not mean he'll be good blocking from the FB position. We're better off leaving him at TE.

beastlyskronk
05-24-2012, 10:11 PM
Yeah you're right, I really wish we had another useless zero production Gronkowski as opposed to a corner capable of nabbing 8 picks in two years.

Are the 8 picks in 2 years worth the 4 TDs a game he'll give up?

#24 Next Champ
05-24-2012, 11:25 PM
Your post makes zero sense.

He implied that he sucked because he was the 6th player on his position's depth chart

Cobb is the 5th player on the Packers WR depth chart

Connect the dots...

Obviously that doesn't say anything but he acted as if depth chart position meant everything

And how many times do I have to say the same thing...

#24 Next Champ
05-25-2012, 12:15 AM
You can't get equal value for a player that will likely be cut anyway especially when other teams already know that Chances are if you're looking to trade a player, you don't want him on the team, if he's the 5th or 6th CB on your depth chart and you're looking to trade him, chances are you will cut him if you can't find any trade partners. It's better to get something in return instead of nothing.

Uhhh and doesn't that go BOTH ways?

Let's see ...Colts have nobody at CB ...they have glaring holes at a position of serious need in today's game ...

Vaughn automatically holds value with his size n measurables

Plus he was impressive on ST's last year ...

How are ppl not getting this?

Young at least POTENTIAL talent at a position of HUGE need (why he'll likely start)

Just hope Gronk can be effective ...just saying Elway is not good at trades ..

// / yardo
05-25-2012, 03:10 AM
Uhhh and doesn't that go BOTH ways?

Let's see ...Colts have nobody at CB ...they have glaring holes at a position of serious need in today's game ...

Vaughn automatically holds value with his size n measurables

Plus he was impressive on ST's last year ...

How are ppl not getting this?

Young at least POTENTIAL talent at a position of HUGE need (why he'll likely start)
Just hope Gronk can be effective ...just saying Elway is not good at trades ..

Man it's such a great travesty to have such an EXPERT wasting away on these message boards when the Broncos could just hire you to make all the expert armchair decisions.

SBboundBRONCOS
05-25-2012, 05:41 AM
Uhhh and doesn't that go BOTH ways?

Let's see ...Colts have nobody at CB ...they have glaring holes at a position of serious need in today's game ...

Vaughn automatically holds value with his size n measurables

Plus he was impressive on ST's last year ...

How are ppl not getting this?

Young at least POTENTIAL talent at a position of HUGE need (why he'll likely start)

Just hope Gronk can be effective ...just saying Elway is not good at trades ..

WHY DO YOU KEEP SAYING HE HAS THIS"POTENTIAL"

fact is he was an undrafted free agent who rarely saw the field and was beaten out by another free agent and ends up on IR most years and when he was on the field he frankly wasnt very good

the only reason to keep him around was for STs and he wasnt even that great at that either aside from a couple plays

if teams saw this "potential" (again you LOVE measurables FAR TOO much) why did he go undrafted and why does he sit at 5-6-7 on the depth chart and why was he traded away for another player that wont make an impact

you cant just keep players around based on potential . . . expecially undrafted free agents that teams sign 5-20 a year.

Hoserman117
05-25-2012, 10:13 AM
WHY DO YOU KEEP SAYING HE HAS THIS"POTENTIAL"

fact is he was an undrafted free agent who rarely saw the field and was beaten out by another free agent and ends up on IR most years and when he was on the field he frankly wasnt very good

the only reason to keep him around was for STs and he wasnt even that great at that either aside from a couple plays

if teams saw this "potential" (again you LOVE measurables FAR TOO much) why did he go undrafted and why does he sit at 5-6-7 on the depth chart and why was he traded away for another player that wont make an impact

you cant just keep players around based on potential . . . expecially undrafted free agents that teams sign 5-20 a year.

There are pro bowlers every year that started as crappy UDFA's that no team gave a chance to. Some of Denvers greatest teams were built around guys like this. Dismissing somebody who has produced in the regular season just because he was a UDFA is dumb.

We traded a young player with lots of potential for scraps. Vaughn is likely gonna be a #3 corner for the Colts, and all it took for them to get him from us was a crappy FB. It's just a bad trade, and unless Gronkowski becomes a hell of a fullback overnight, we should have just held onto Vaughn.

Hoserman117
05-25-2012, 10:16 AM
Man it's such a great travesty to have such an EXPERT wasting away on these message boards when the Broncos could just hire you to make all the expert armchair decisions.

So what, you're saying just because the FO makes a decision it's the right one? That doesn't make sense, because FO's across the NFL are wrong all the time. Nobody here is claminig to be an expert, we're giving valid opinions against honestly no good arguments against it. Nobody has tried to say this was a good trade, because everybody know it was bad return value. High potential at an important position beats out almost no potential at the least important position every single time.

broncos SB2010
05-25-2012, 10:34 AM
It's different because there was no giant contract pushing us to release him.

yep, no giant contrat and not much talent either...............

#87Birdman
05-25-2012, 10:41 AM
There are pro bowlers every year that started as crappy UDFA's that no team gave a chance to. Some of Denvers greatest teams were built around guys like this. Dismissing somebody who has produced in the regular season just because he was a UDFA is dumb.

We traded a young player with lots of potential for scraps. Vaughn is likely gonna be a #3 corner for the Colts, and all it took for them to get him from us was a crappy FB. It's just a bad trade, and unless Gronkowski becomes a hell of a fullback overnight, we should have just held onto Vaughn.

So if the coaches thought he wasn't going to be on the final roster we should have let him get cut and got nothing in return??? To me getting a position of need is good. We have a need at FB they had a need at CB guess what we made a trade, with guys both teams figured they were going to cut to give the players a chance. We got something which is better then the nothing we were probably going to end up with.

broncos SB2010
05-25-2012, 10:42 AM
There are pro bowlers every year that started as crappy UDFA's that no team gave a chance to. Some of Denvers greatest teams were built around guys like this. Dismissing somebody who has produced in the regular season just because he was a UDFA is dumb.

We traded a young player with lots of potential for scraps. Vaughn is likely gonna be a #3 corner for the Colts, and all it took for them to get him from us was a crappy FB. It's just a bad trade, and unless Gronkowski becomes a hell of a fullback overnight, we should have just held onto Vaughn.

if that does turn it out that way then opposing QB know who to target and will have a career day against him.

SBboundBRONCOS
05-25-2012, 10:56 AM
So what, you're saying just because the FO makes a decision it's the right one? That doesn't make sense, because FO's across the NFL are wrong all the time. Nobody here is claminig to be an expert, we're giving valid opinions against honestly no good arguments against it. Nobody has tried to say this was a good trade, because everybody know it was bad return value. High potential at an important position beats out almost no potential at the least important position every single time.

theres how many, many 4-5 if they are LUCKY more likely 1-2

out of how many UDFA, say every team signs 15 . . . thats over 450 players so if were going by luck thats a .01 chance of that player becoming a probowler, and realistically its about .004 chance

come on hoser get real man. He didnt even show a hint of becoming anything more than a backup while he was here

i dont see the fuss that you and #24 are making about this

Hoserman117
05-25-2012, 11:32 AM
theres how many, many 4-5 if they are LUCKY more likely 1-2

out of how many UDFA, say every team signs 15 . . . thats over 450 players so if were going by luck thats a .01 chance of that player becoming a probowler, and realistically its about .004 chance

come on hoser get real man. He didnt even show a hint of becoming anything more than a backup while he was here

i dont see the fuss that you and #24 are making about this

He looked like good enough to have people wanting him to start over Goodman in pre-season. I wasn't one of the people wanting him to be a starter, but he's what, 23 or 24? He played well enough to enter the season as our #3 as a second year UDFA.

Yes, 450 UDFA's are signed a year, but almost none of them will see significant playing time. Vaughn got on the field, made plays in the pass and return game, I'm not saying I think Vaughn was going to be a pro-bowler, much less a starter for the team, but he had the talent to turn into something, and had shown ability on the field. We traded him for basically nothing.