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View Full Version : [Rockies] Rockies' Jeremy Guthrie goes from opening-day starter to trade bait



BroncoFanBoy
06-19-2012, 12:36 PM
In a good read from Troy E. Renck:


It's incongruous. But when Jeremy Guthrie wrecked his bicycle April 27, he began pedaling his way off the Rockies' roster.

Four teams, including the Blue Jays, have expressed interest in acquiring the struggling right-hander, whom Colorado is aggressively trying to trade, according to multiple major-league sources. The Rockies have gone from perplexed to disappointed in their opening-day starter, who has posted a 7.02 ERA overall, been spooked by Coors Field (9.53 ERA) and hasn't been the same since he jammed his shoulder when the chain popped on the bike he rides to work.

Guthrie symbolizes both a rotation off to the worst start in franchise history and a season gone horribly wrong as the Rockies (25-40) begin a three-game series in Philadelphia tonight.

The Red Sox, Tigers and Twins are among teams seeking starting pitching, and the Yankees love to add depth. The Cubs placed Ryan Dempster, a top trade target of many teams, on the disabled list Monday, making Guthrie more attractive because of his perceived low acquisition price. Talks are active on several fronts, and while the Toronto report was a little premature, according to a Rockies source, it would be no surprise if Guthrie is traded before the team returns to Coors Field. He could be the first of several players to be shipped out over the next six weeks.

Infielder Marco Scutaro and first baseman Jason Giambi could interest contenders looking for bats, and teams have already asked about relievers Rafael Betancourt and Matt Belisle. The price will be extremely high for the bullpen arms, given their performance and affordable contracts next season. Belisle is highly unlikely to be traded.

The Rockies are looking to move the remaining $4.9 million on Guthrie's one-year arbitration contract while receiving a midlevel prospect. Toronto has offered first baseman Matt McDade, a hefty Double-A slugger, but Colorado would prefer a pitcher or possibly a middle infielder. After three starters landed on the disabled list, Toronto scouted Guthrie on Sunday and left interested despite his poor showing in Detroit.

While Guthrie has been a huge disappointment, suitors view him through a slightly different prism, namely as the Rockies' latest Coors Field casualty. Several teams inquired about Guthrie after the Rockies acquired him in January. And there are still a handful of clubs that believe they can fix Guthrie, whose lack of fastball command has sabotaged him.

Guthrie has been unable to compete at Coors Field, where numbers this season have resembled the pinball scores in the prehumidor years. Rather than stabilize the staff, he has contributed to the chaos.

The Rockies' pitchers have a 5.91 ERA at Coors Field, with opponents at 5.77. The previous two seasons were dramatically different, with the Rockies posting 4.71 and 4.25 ERAs and visitors finishing at 5.07 and 5.76.

As such, Guthrie has let the Denver ballpark creep into his head, as revealed in his recent comments and odd behavior.

He admitted after his last home start against Oakland that his pitches were affected more at altitude than he anticipated. He also tipped his cap twice to the crowd out of frustration.

With his rotation spot hanging in the balance, Guthrie lasted just three innings in Detroit on Sunday, dissolving after he failed to catch a foul pop-up.

He has never said he wants out, but he's pitching his way off the Rockies.

It's not inconceivable that he could make another start for the Rockies on this road trip, but it would be an upset if he gets the ball again at Coors Field. Guthrie's failures have been magnified by Jason Hammel's success. The Rockies shipped Hammel and reliever Matt Lindstrom to Baltimore in exchange for Guthrie. Hammel is pushing for an all-star berth and Lindstrom has been effective.

Guthrie beat Houston on opening day, pitching seven innings. Aside from an outing at Milwaukee, the Rockies haven't seen that pitcher since his freak bicycle accident. He missed three starts after that mishap and sent the rotation into disarray.

The Rockies have internal options to replace him, with the team prepared to give opportunities in the coming weeks and months to pitchers such as Guillermo Moscoso, Drew Pomeranz and Tyler Chatwood, and possibly even Double-A left-hander Edwar Cabrera.

Ironically, Guthrie has been everything the Rockies thought Hammel would be, if he had stayed. Now, Guthrie has left them no option other than to move him as well.


Matt McDade's Double-A stats: 65 games, .304 average, 11 HR,38 RBI's, oh, and he's only 23.

O'Dowd, WHAT ARE YOU DOING?!? We could use a future first basemen when Todd retires. If I was GM, I'd take that deal in a heartbeat.

The Experience
06-19-2012, 12:45 PM
In a good read from Troy E. Renck:



Matt McDade's Double-A stats: 65 games, .304 average, 11 HR,38 RBI's, oh, and he's only 23.

O'Dowd, WHAT ARE YOU DOING?!? We could use a future first basemen when Todd retires. If I was GM, I'd take that deal in a heartbeat.
Wow, just like O'Dowd. Overvaluing our own crappy players....

Fire odud

BroncoFanBoy
06-19-2012, 12:57 PM
Wow, just like O'Dowd. Overvaluing our own crappy players....

Fire odud

Toronto isn't going to trade a possibly good pitcher for a dud one. I agree with you. And if they are gonna offer a good first basemen like McDade, you take it!

CinnaMunMun
06-19-2012, 01:57 PM
And McDade is a monster defensively, taking huge pride in it from when he played catcher.

GET HIM!

CoryWinget81
06-19-2012, 02:32 PM
"I can't make that move. It makes too much sense. How's about another abortion of a pitcher instead?"

--Dan O'Dowd

The Experience
06-19-2012, 04:03 PM
Well they moved Guthrie to the pen and are going with a 4 man rotation. This just seems like its going to be a disaster

Blondie79
06-19-2012, 06:16 PM
well that decision so far is not looking good....

Blondie79
06-19-2012, 06:42 PM
This team sucks, nothings gonna change until people are fired, there is nothing but talent on this team and its not utilized we shouldnt be anywhere near this bad.. im over this team right now.

BroncoFanBoy
06-19-2012, 08:44 PM
This team sucks, nothings gonna change until people are fired, there is nothing but talent on this team and its not utilized we shouldnt be anywhere near this bad.. im over this team right now.

Peyton and the Broncos will make all of us happy in August :D

Broncoholic3233
06-20-2012, 12:18 PM
4 man rotation. 75 pitch count for everyone. Hahahhahahaha


Good luck trying to get a win starters.


Tracy is unbelievable.

Bronco51
06-20-2012, 03:41 PM
Well, maybe this means they will spend money on big hitters and just become a glorified softball team. Because they have turned pitching here into a big joke. No pitcher will want to be handled by any of these clowns in the dugout. Back to Blake Street Bombers is the way to go.

CTM
06-23-2012, 06:23 AM
Hey Guys, O's fan popping in. Just wanted to say thanks for Jason Hammel!

How're things working out on your end?


http://mlblogsjonestein.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/law_26_order_tru1.jpg?w=266&h=191


:thumb: :peace:

Bronco51
06-23-2012, 06:39 AM
Hey Guys, O's fan popping in. Just wanted to say thanks for Jason Hammel!

How're things working out on your end?


http://mlblogsjonestein.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/law_26_order_tru1.jpg?w=266&h=191


:thumb: :peace:

How about another trade? Buck Showalter for Jim Tracy straight up. Well, maybe we will kick in some cash to sweeten the deal. What do you say?

Broncoholic3233
06-23-2012, 10:01 AM
Hey Guys, O's fan popping in. Just wanted to say thanks for Jason Hammel!

How're things working out on your end?


http://mlblogsjonestein.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/law_26_order_tru1.jpg?w=266&h=191


:thumb: :peace:

Lol @ an O's fan getting cocky. We both know it won't last. ;)

Hammel blows. You are more than welcome for him. It won't last. You'll see. Enjoy it while you can.

BroncoFanBoy
06-23-2012, 10:58 AM
Lol @ an O's fan getting cocky. We both know it won't last. ;)

Hammel blows. You are more than welcome for him. It won't last. You'll see. Enjoy it while you can.

I heard Hammel learned a new 2-seam fastball from the Orioles pitching coach which has worked very well. I'm sold. We need a pitching coach like that. Apodaca has NO pitching IQ.

Broncoholic3233
06-23-2012, 11:38 AM
I heard Hammel learned a new 2-seam fastball from the Orioles pitching coach which has worked very well. I'm sold. We need a pitching coach like that. Apodaca has NO pitching IQ.

We need fire ballers.

97+ with a change and slider.

CTM
06-23-2012, 12:11 PM
Lol @ an O's fan getting cocky. We both know it won't last. ;)

Hammel blows. You are more than welcome for him. It won't last. You'll see. Enjoy it while you can.

These moments don't come around very often so I have to take advantage of them.

I know we'll probably crumble like we always do, but Hammel has done so well for us I'm shocked. I thought he would be middle of the road and just be there to eat innings and post a sub .500 record with a mid 4 ERA. But 8-2 with a 2.6 ERA???? Crazy.

Broncoholic3233
06-23-2012, 12:22 PM
These moments don't come around very often so I have to take advantage of them.

I know we'll probably crumble like we always do, but Hammel has done so well for us I'm shocked. I thought he would be middle of the road and just be there to eat innings and post a sub .500 record with a mid 4 ERA. But 8-2 with a 2.6 ERA???? Crazy.

I feel ya man. Us too. 2 good seasons other than that mediocre to bad.

But anyways, we'll see. Maybe not playing at Coors was all it was. But I just can't see it. Had so many bright moments with us, only to come back to reality shortly after.

Good to see you guys doing well though. Hopefully you can keep it up.

The Experience
06-23-2012, 06:11 PM
Hammel's success just came from being on a team with someone who knows how to coach pitchers.

Apodaca is the worst pitching coach in baseball.....

BroncoFanBoy
06-24-2012, 10:09 AM
We need fire ballers.

97+ with a change and slider.


Even if we had fireballers, they still need to learn how to pitch at Coors Field, and keep the ball down. Apodaca needs to be able to teach that, but he couldn't even teach someome how to peel a banana, let alone improve mechanics.

CinnaMunMun
06-24-2012, 10:37 AM
Even if we had fireballers, they still need to learn how to pitch at Coors Field, and keep the ball down. Apodaca needs to be able to teach that, but he couldn't even teach someome how to peel a banana, let alone improve mechanics.

Everyone seems to forget that we actually have a pretty darn good bullpen, who happen to be pitchers.

We started the year with a 3rd year guy with an injury, a 49 year-old, a very young pitcher coming off of a near-death experience, an average innings eater (Guthrie), and a rookie. Our best pitcher was on the DL and our expected ace followed not long after. Right now our #2/3/4 pitchers are hurt, #1 can't handle Coors like many pitchers before him, and #5 was cut.

I'm telling you guys, Apodaca is a fall guy. That pitching staff was set up to have growing pains from day 1.

BroncoFanBoy
06-24-2012, 01:13 PM
Everyone seems to forget that we actually have a pretty darn good bullpen, who happen to be pitchers.

We started the year with a 3rd year guy with an injury, a 49 year-old, a very young pitcher coming off of a near-death experience, an average innings eater (Guthrie), and a rookie. Our best pitcher was on the DL and our expected ace followed not long after. Right now our #2/3/4 pitchers are hurt, #1 can't handle Coors like many pitchers before him, and #5 was cut.

I'm telling you guys, Apodaca is a fall guy. That pitching staff was set up to have growing pains from day 1.

Nicasio can be a good pitcher. Pitching coaches are paid to improve their mechanics, and he can't do that with Nicasio. Pomeranz and White, both considered great prospects, are also pitchers Apodaca could improve, but can't. I guarantee that if we drafted Stephen Strasberg, he would fail here. MLB pitching coaches are also paid to improve younger pitchers. Pro ball is much different than high school, college, or minors.

Alex White has good pitches. If coached right, he can be an outstanding pitcher. Bob needs to improve his mechanics and delivery, but won't. Pomeranz is another example. They both have sucked this year. I still have faith in Chacin as well.

Sure, Coors Field is harder to pitch at, but Bob needs to teach them how to get the ball down.

None of our starters will ever be good with Apodaca as our pitching coach. And it's different teaching bullpen than starters. We do have a good pen, I will agree.

CinnaMunMun
06-24-2012, 02:05 PM
Nicasio can be a good pitcher. Pitching coaches are paid to improve their mechanics, and he can't do that with Nicasio. Pomeranz and White, both considered great prospects, are also pitchers Apodaca could improve, but can't. I guarantee that if we drafted Stephen Strasberg, he would fail here. MLB pitching coaches are also paid to improve younger pitchers. Pro ball is much different than high school, college, or minors.

Alex White has good pitches. If coached right, he can be an outstanding pitcher. Bob needs to improve his mechanics and delivery, but won't. Pomeranz is another example. They both have sucked this year. I still have faith in Chacin as well.

Sure, Coors Field is harder to pitch at, but Bob needs to teach them how to get the ball down.

None of our starters will ever be good with Apodaca as our pitching coach. And it's different teaching bullpen than starters. We do have a good pen, I will agree.

Really most of that is assumptions. Nicasio can be great, but the kid has had less than 1 year playing and had no offseason due to his neck.

Jimenez had his best years mechanically here and even credited Apodaca on his suggestions during his no hitter. Yet you guarantee they all will fail? I would gladly bet you on the Strasburg claim, but we both know it will never happen.

BroncoFanBoy
06-24-2012, 03:53 PM
Really most of that is assumptions. Nicasio can be great, but the kid has had less than 1 year playing and had no offseason due to his neck.

Jimenez had his best years mechanically here and even credited Apodaca on his suggestions during his no hitter. Yet you guarantee they all will fail? I would gladly bet you on the Strasburg claim, but we both know it will never happen.

Maybe not ALL of them will fail, but I'm just saying. If we had a pitching coach like the Orioles have, and could teach pitches our starters could be comfortable with and dominate, he could really improve the staff. Sure, it's not a guarantee a good pitching coach would make someone into the next Justin Verlander, but they do help in a big way.

Ubaldo already had his nasty fastball. If he had anymore dominant pitches that he controlled very well, he would be one of the greatest pitchers in the MLB and would've gotten his extension he wanted.

We need someone who can coach our starters to pitch long innings at Coors Field. But of course, I won't blame it all on Apodaca. O'Dowd needs to stop taking guys like Chris Nelson over guys like Jered Weaver, or Jeff Francis over Cole Hamels.

Bronco51
07-02-2012, 08:38 PM
He's getting a surprise start Wednesday as an audition for somebody. Hopefully they dump him soon. And maybe they can get another 'innings eater'

The Experience
07-03-2012, 06:32 AM
He's getting a surprise start Wednesday as an audition for somebody. Hopefully they dump him soon. And maybe they can get another 'innings eater'

Still can't believe O'Dowd declined the Jays offer. What a joke of a GM....

DenverBlood
07-18-2012, 06:43 PM
Why is this guy still on the roster?