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View Full Version : [Nuggets] Andre Iguodala, overpaid defensive specialist?



johnlimburg
02-03-2013, 03:04 AM
As I watched Iguodala clang his FOURTH consecutive free throw against the Indiana Pacers, my trolling girlfriend started jumping around my living room proclaiming something I've heard all too often this year:

"Iguodala sucks. Iguodala sucks!"

If I wasn't already full of tension, I would have defended him right there. Unfortunately, the Nuggets were locked up in a dogfight with the Pacers, and my attention was elsewhere. Thankfully 'Dre came through in the end, and I was able to systematically give my girlfriend the reasons why Iguodala is a great player.

...except I failed miserably.

The problem with explaining AI9's greatness to a casual fan is that it's almost impossible to do, his value just comes from a place that is very different from most NBA players. He's not a scorer or a big imposing shot blocker, nor is he a guy who can take over games late on a regular basis.

Everyone knows that Andre Iguodala is a great defender. There have been numerous articles written about this, some of them quite recently (like this one from Matt Moore of CBS Sports.com). What I'd like to illustrate is just how amazing of a defender he actually is, and how that has an effect on the lineups he plays in.

READ MORE AT http://www.denverstiffs.com/2013/2/2/3931362/andre-iguodala-overpaid-defensive-specialist

Great article on how valuable Andre Iguodala is to the team. His shooting has been pretty average all year howver his defense, playmaking and rebounding have been great for the team. He has been close to a bunch of triple doubles and hopefully his shot continues to get better. It has been of late.

Broncoholic3233
02-03-2013, 03:07 AM
Eh, extremely overrated and I'm not average bball fan.

Watch almost every Nugget, every rams and duke game...far from average.

He's pretty damn overrated. Poor mans Lebron..my ass.

Broncoholic3233
02-03-2013, 03:14 AM
Casual fan my ass.

Broncoholic3233
02-03-2013, 03:19 AM
Nice edit. Also, I did read it.

Ray Martinella...some nobody, writing a crappy article. Terribly wordy.

Iggy = OVERRATED.

Spin it any way you want. He's not made us better. We still play down to teams, our defense is inconsistent, our offense has gotten worse. I don't know what you are trying to prove with this article.

He's a Nugget. I'll support him...but he's been nowhere near 'great' for us. The trade hasn't made us better. I bet he doesn't re-sign either.

johnlimburg
02-03-2013, 03:23 AM
No matter who wrote the article it doesn't change the stats that he produced and the very valid points that he brought up. Just cause you don't like it doesn't mean it is any less valid. If he said something which is wrong then I could see the point. But he didn't It is sort of like the conspiracy nut jobs. Don't want to believe the facts so they just refuse to acknowledge it.

And I have agreed with you in the past that he was a little overrated. He is overpaid as I have said before. However the fact is you do not like him. When he plays poorly you are the first one there telling everyone. However when he plays good you don't want to talk about him.

And I would say this article where he says casual fans not understanding is exactly refering to you now I think about it. When ever you have tried to discuss Andre Iguodala you have just refered to his scoring. The flashy stuff. The stuff any person with a brain and eyes could understand. However as I have pointed out to you time and time again his defense, rebounding and assisting is great for the team and a major improvment to the team over what we had before.

Now what was the point of the thread ? To show how good Andre Iguodalas defense has been to the team. To show that there are other ways to helping the team. To show how Andre Iguodalas defense stacks up compared to the best defenders in the game as a whole and at his position. If I was doing what your doing in this thread in one of yours you would be crying and telling me to get out.

And I would disagree we are not a better team this year. I think we are. Have you been watching as of late ? We are playing great. Didn't you post a stat about we just had our most wins ever in January ? Someone did. Anyway here are my points to why we are better this year.

At the all star break last season we were 18-17 (0.514) . Right now with the all star break 6 games away we are sitting at 30-18 (.625). So we are going much better then we were last season heading into the all star break. Last season we finished 38-28 (0.576). Our win percentage right now is much better. Also last season we couldn't beat the Lakers in the playoffs. Right now we look like we would roll the Lakers in the playoffs.

And yes last year technically our scoring offense was better. We scored 0.5 more points per game last year. However when it comes to scoring we are shooting 1.4% better from the field and our offensive rebounding is up by 1.3 per game. We are also operating at virtually the same assist total per game and are only down 0.2 on last season. So is our offense really worst then last year ? The answer is no. Look deeper then then the scoring per game total.

Also our defense is a little bit better this season than last year. We are rated 24th in the league giving up 100.7 PPG given up compared to last season where the total was 101.2 and 29th in the NBA. However teams are shooting a lower percentage against us this season. This year teams are shooting 44.2% against us while last year teams were shooting 45.6% against us. Add in the 1.4 more blocks per game we are getting this season and the 0.4 more steals per game we are getting and I would say we are better defensivly.

Overall I would say we are a better team this year. And I would say we have not even hit our peak. Andre Iguodala is just starting to settle in. Javale Mcgee is playing well below what he could be producing. We are getting back a very good player into the rotation with Wilson Chandler. Ty Lawson is being as aggresive as he has been all year long right now and playing better and better. Koufas continues to become a better and better player for this basketball team. And team chemistry seems to be on the rise along with this teams momentum.

Read the article and learn something. You didn't open this thread, read the thread, hit the link, read the article, comeback and post in 3 mins. Their are great points in there.

Broncoholic3233
02-03-2013, 12:20 PM
Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

I could not careless if you think I'm a casual fan. I know just as much about basketball as you, if not more.

I don't care if you think I hate Iggy. I am not going to lose sleep over it, believe whatever the hell you'd like.

You're one of the few who thinks Iggy has been great for us. He is a liability on offense and shoots the FT like he's a center. What good is he if he can't shoot and when he drives and they foul him and he can't hit a damn FT?

His defense is very good. Not disputing that. His passing is not consistent at all, so you can stop with that..have you watched recently? All his fancy ass passes he tries to make that end up being T/O's. Gallo tries to make some dumb passes too, gotta stop with those.

Lol... bringing up the Lakers. A completely different team, that is a disaster. Not comparable.

He's a good player. He's not great. He has not improved our team drastically at all.

Call me what you want. Think what you want. Doesn't effect me one bit.

BroncNuggsRocks
02-03-2013, 12:48 PM
Just kiss already, its getting old.

Broncoholic3233
02-03-2013, 01:06 PM
Just kiss already, its getting old.

:kiss::kiss:

beastlyskronk
02-03-2013, 01:42 PM
Iguodala is one of if not the best defender in the NBA. When the playoffs come around, I have faith in him to guard any superstar on the other team. I feel like we have a better shot at beating the Thunder with Iguodala on the team and they are the team to beat in the West, right? I'm comfortable with Iguodala on Durant, Martin, and to an extent Westbrook. Chandler is a great defender as well so that's another plus for us going up against OKC. Gallo played Durant tough in the playoffs so hopefully he can keep that up.

I thought Iguodala would be a lot better in our transition offense than he has been. Hopefully he'll continue to improve. I thought he'd be better at moving without the ball on offense. But the thing is, everything I thought he'd be good at on offense, are all things that are directly related to how good your chemistry is with the team. I do not believe that in 48 games here in Denver, he has already reached his peak. He'll continue to get better, as will the team. This team is, if only slightly, better than last year's team.

Houshmazode
02-03-2013, 08:54 PM
His defense has certainly made the Nuggets better on that end. He creates a lot of turnovers and covers other teams' start players very well. He probably is the best defensive player in the NBA.

He's still way overpaid and his offense sucks though.

johnlimburg
02-03-2013, 09:31 PM
Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

I could not careless if you think I'm a casual fan. I know just as much about basketball as you, if not more.

I don't care if you think I hate Iggy. I am not going to lose sleep over it, believe whatever the hell you'd like.

You're one of the few who thinks Iggy has been great for us. He is a liability on offense and shoots the FT like he's a center. What good is he if he can't shoot and when he drives and they foul him and he can't hit a damn FT?

His defense is very good. Not disputing that. His passing is not consistent at all, so you can stop with that..have you watched recently? All his fancy ass passes he tries to make that end up being T/O's. Gallo tries to make some dumb passes too, gotta stop with those.

Lol... bringing up the Lakers. A completely different team, that is a disaster. Not comparable.

He's a good player. He's not great. He has not improved our team drastically at all.

Call me what you want. Think what you want. Doesn't effect me one bit.

Real mature. Blah blah blah. Really ? And honestly you don't know what I know about basketball and I don't know what you know. However I do know that you think cause you watch a lot of games means you know a lot. Do you play ? Have you played ? Because playing allows you to know a lot more you wouldn't from watching. Also you are the fan who is very passionate and loves his teams. However you don't strike me as someone who really knows the finer points of the actual game being played. Thats just how I see you.

Broncoholic3233
02-03-2013, 09:41 PM
Real mature. Blah blah blah. Really ? And honestly you don't know what I know about basketball and I don't know what you know. However I do know that you think cause you watch a lot of games means you know a lot. Do you play ? Have you played ? Because playing allows you to know a lot more you wouldn't from watching. Also you are the fan who is very passionate and loves his teams. However you don't strike me as someone who really knows the finer points of the actual game being played. Thats just how I see you.

Played from age 6 through high school. So yes, I have.

I've also coached the game for the youngin's. So you're right, you don't know what I know.

See me however you'd like. Don't matter to me. I know the game whether you think I do or not.

Speaking of mature, how about those edits and deletes last night. You do know Mods can see that right if I brought them up.

58_VONDOOM_92
02-03-2013, 09:44 PM
wow you two really do like to disagree on a lot of things.

On that not I really do think we need Iggy come playoff time. He's kinda that missing piece we needed and I reall think he was brought in for his top notch D.

Kinda like Dantey jones the year we went to the WC finals.

We need a guy like that to stop the star players like a Durant or Westbrook

Broncoholic3233
02-03-2013, 09:48 PM
I was pissed when we got rid of D Jones...a little bias there perhaps but still. He was a solid defender.

I don't think he'll be able to stop star players in the playoffs...we'll see when the time comes...but it's pretty hard to stop the star players even if you're a defensive specialist like Iggy. He'll help on the defensive end for sure though...he's great on defense...no doubt about that.

However, we'll also need scoring. He doesn't provide that consistently and we need someone who is willing to take the shots at the end and that's not him either due to his lack of offense. Hopefully Gallo will be that guy, or possibly even Chandler...but who knows...

Houshmazode
02-03-2013, 09:52 PM
If Iguodala could learn to pass the ball instead of drive to the basket when there's 3 defenders in the lane then he might start to get close to worth what he's being paid. He would have to make some free throws every now and then and probably score 23 a game to make it worth his contract. I'd like to see him back next year, for way cheaper.

Broncoholic3233
02-03-2013, 09:57 PM
If Iguodala could learn to pass the ball instead of drive to the basket when there's 3 defenders in the lane then he might start to get close to worth what he's being paid. He would have to make some free throws every now and then and probably score 23 a game to make it worth his contract. I'd like to see him back next year, for way cheaper.

He'll prob exercise his option and stay next year. He'll be robbing us blind and be making 16 million I believe with that option. Posted something about this in another thread.

I'm all for keeping him...if we work out a reasonable contract. I like the dude, awesome guy, reminds me of AAA, genuinely good guy off the court. However, right now, he's robbing us, and he's not worth the contract of 15 mil he's making this year.

But next year he'll more than likely use his option, and make around 16 million...that's absurd. But, I can't blame him...

Houshmazode
02-03-2013, 10:01 PM
I'm all for keeping him if he promises to never wear that ridiculous orangish colored turtleneck and cosby sweater style blazer that he wore after the game a few nights ago.

BroncNuggsRocks
02-03-2013, 11:23 PM
I don't know squat about basketball... I have a hard time figuring out who plays what position.

I try, though :D

Broncoholic3233
02-03-2013, 11:55 PM
I don't know squat about basketball... I have a hard time figuring out who plays what position.

I try, though :D

Don't worry. Sometimes I get confused too. Like I can rarely tell the difference between Lawson and Mozzy -- identical twins much?

Atwnbroncfan
02-04-2013, 11:50 AM
Iggy hasn't played his worth yet. 15 million for a defensive player is a joke. There is a reason the Sixters took a gamble on trading him for Bynum

The Experience
02-04-2013, 06:07 PM
Iggy hasn't played his worth yet. 15 million for a defensive player is a joke. There is a reason the Sixters took a gamble on trading him for Bynum

And look at how that has worked out for them.

BroncNuggsRocks
02-04-2013, 09:04 PM
Iggy does seem overpaid. Just looking at pure production, he's not worth his contract.

maybe he will improve, who knows...

johnlimburg
02-04-2013, 09:38 PM
Played from age 6 through high school. So yes, I have.

I've also coached the game for the youngin's. So you're right, you don't know what I know.

See me however you'd like. Don't matter to me. I know the game whether you think I do or not.

Speaking of mature, how about those edits and deletes last night. You do know Mods can see that right if I brought them up.

Report them. It doesn't bother me. I didn't delete them because I thought I would get in trouble. You kept posting so much and editing everyone of your posts that the conversation didn't make sense. So I deleted my comments and responded to all of your dribble at once. Hence the long post addressing everything you said.

Now onto the basketball stuff. Yes Andre Iguodala is robbing us. He is well overpaid. That is one thing I dislike a lot about this front office. They overpay players. There first big contract they handed out was to Nene. Nene was the defintion of average and they paid him like a superstar. Thank god they dumped his salary. Then with Afflalo. They overpaid him a bit. Good thing they dumped his salary while they could. Then Wilson Chandler. He is a good player but that much with little reported league interest and coming off some pretty bad play in the playoffs. Not a great contract. Then Javale Mcgee. Maybe the dumbest signing of the front office yet. He is in not worth what he earns. Maybe if he plays like he did in the playoffs last year but the guy is a very mediocre player. He will flash and has some potential but when will he ever start living up to it ? And was that awful contract handed out to Al Harrington a couple of years ago this current front office ?

Hopefully Andre Iguodala opts out and we can re-sign him for like 8 Million a year or something like that. If I were him I wouldn't do it. It just isn't smart. He will keep his contract, earn double figures next year and then get a 5 year 40-50 million dollar contract off someone. And that is if he plays at the level he is playing at now. His name is a popular one as well so that could add more to the price tag. Add improved play which I think is going to happen and the contract could be more.

BroncNuggsRocks
02-05-2013, 01:23 AM
So now that you guys have finally agreed on something, can we all just move on?

Iggle is overpaid.
Iggle is a great defender and probably a little underappreciated by some and overhyped by others.



yayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

DenverBlood
02-05-2013, 05:53 AM
So now that you guys have finally agreed on something, can we all just move on?

Iggle is overpaid.
Iggle is a great defender and probably a little underappreciated by some and overhyped by others.



yayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

They've been doing this all season long and probably will continue to do so.

You'll learn to ignore it.

Funny thing is they root for the same team. They just have different favorite players.