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View Full Version : [Nuggets] Article: KLEE: Red-hot Nuggets still missing one key ingredient, veteran says



Broncoholic3233
02-08-2013, 03:13 PM
The great experiment at Pepsi Center has been under way since Carmelo Anthony forced the Nuggets to deal away their franchise savior.

All that's missing is a white lab coat to replace their Big Bird-yellow jerseys.

The experiment is this: Can a roster of complementary players find the right mixture to overcome the absence of a true superstar and reach the NBA Finals?

The answer is this: “No. I don’t care how much team basketball you play or how much talent you have all spread out. You can’t win in this league without a superstar.”

Can’t win — or can’t win big?

“You can’t win a championship. I don’t even think you can even advance in the playoffs without that marquee player.”

Guess who told me that Wednesday?

A veteran in his 13th season in the NBA.

In addition to his refreshing honesty, Andre Miller is playing at a level that should be applauded. Quietly, his style, the point guard is a significant reason the Nuggets are hunting their eighth straight victory when the Bulls visit Thursday.

George Karl appreciates the stability Miller brings to a lineup that can be as wild as it is fun to watch. The coach leans on his eldest player at critical moments in games, knowing the trusty point guard is adept at making the wise decision.

"He comes in to work every day and goes hard every practice,” forward Corey Brewer said. “It shows in the game.”

When Miller signed for three more years in July, I didn’t know how much butter he still had in his popcorn. The 36-year-old has enough to fill a multiplex.

The Nuggets are storming toward the No. 4 seed in the Western Conference. Since mid-December, no team has more wins than Denver (20).

At home, where their record is 21-3, these Nuggets are must-see TV.

This is not to disparage Denver’s rip-roaring start to the new year. This is simply cold, hard, playoff truth.

It said something when Denver approached Boston about the availability of center Kevin Garnett, according to a report in The Denver Post.

It said the Nuggets acknowledge their ceiling is limited with their current makeup — in spite of their best run since Melo ditched the big mountains for the Big Apple.

"I think we have enough here to play well during the (regular) season,” Miller said. “The goal right now is to position ourselves for homecourt advantage (in the playoffs). Maybe that will help; I’m not sure. But we’ll have to play a lot smarter."

Miller, who is the backup to Ty Lawson, said his career goal is to play 15 seasons in the NBA. Lawson is their point guard of the future and their starter of the present.

“I want more minutes,” Miller said. “If we were losing I would really be complaining. But it’s going as it goes.”

"I don't know how much longer they want me here. I definitely would like to contribute more,” Miller added when I asked if he wants to finish in Denver. “I’m not just going to sit back and settle in and be a backup and let my career just fade away. I’m competitive in that way.”

The Bulls (29-19) offer a fair comparison for the Nuggets (31-18) — a lineup flourishing without a superstar.

“They don’t have a lot of stars,” Karl said. “They play as a team.”

But the Bulls come to town with an ace in their back pocket: A true superstar. Derrick Rose, named NBA MVP at age 22, practiced in Denver on Wednesday and is expected to return from injury after the All-Star break.

Can the Nuggets' great experiment lead to the NBA Finals? One seasoned veteran says the key ingredient still is missing.



Read more: http://www.gazette.com/articles/klee-150719-veteran-missing.html#ixzz2KLemGi3Y

I love Miller...I think he's been awesome this year...however...this pisses me off. Shut up dude...we are playing some great basketball....we have a legit shot this year to make some real noise.

beastlyskronk
02-08-2013, 03:22 PM
Absolutely stupid of him to say. Basketball is the ultimate team sport. 5 players playing perfect sync will always beat a team with 1 or 2 superstars playing well together. It's just a lot easier to get 1 or 2 superstars and make a run than it is to get your starting 5 to sync in with each other. Last night, we saw the whole team, starters and backup were nearly perfectly synced and it led to a 30 point blowout. Granted the Bulls don't have Derrick Rose and he would have made the game a lot closer, but if the team can bottle up what they did last night and do it throughout the playoffs, it'll be hard to knock us out of the playoffs.

Our team does not need a superstar. We have great length and team speed. These are big things in great defense. Focusing in on it will lead to great success in the playoffs.

johnlimburg
02-08-2013, 03:22 PM
I don't disaagree with what he said. I think that without a go to guy who can come through in the clutch like Carmelo Anthony you will struggle to go places in the playoffs. However even with Carmelo Anthony we were a lock to be bounced in the first round pretty much anyway. We have a good team we just need someone to establish themselves as that guy. It hasn't happened yet. Ty Lawson throws the ball to the other team in the clutch and Gallo is inconsistant as hell. But this team plays great together and I think if someone establishes themselves in the clutch we could make some noise.

But overall this team in close games against good teams just isn't very good. The lack of prescence of a half court offense will hurt us and again mostly because of the lack of a low post game. However the leader of the team and a veteran like Miller should not say this. And I hate him starting to complain about minutes again. He signed up for this. He was a free agent and had a choice. He could start for a number of teams out there however no team will give up much for him. And it would really hurt our chemistry if Miller was to go.

Broncoholic3233
02-08-2013, 03:26 PM
Then what was the point of Iguodala trade then John? I thought he was goin to be that piece we needed to push us to the next level and make us into a legit threat?

I think we are a legit threat and am not fond of Iggy's OVERALL play....but you are...and still don't think we are a legit threat? Am I reading that correctly or not?

johnlimburg
02-08-2013, 03:40 PM
Is he a clutch offensive player and the go to guy ? Has he ever been in his entire career ? Is he a low post scorer ? They are the exact two things I just said which will hold us back and I agree with Andre Miller on. As George Karl said in the other article he is very happy with what Iguodala has brought and pretty much what he expected. And I never said Iguodala will push us over the edge. I was on the side which said the trade wasn't that great.

However I just defend his play to people like you who don't look past the scoring aspect. And I am not fond of his scoring. But as I said in the other thread. 5th at his position in assists and 1st at his position in rebounds. Add in the aspect of probably the best defensive guard in the league. That is good overall play.

And I just thought he would make the team better. We are better this year then last no question and we are only getting better from here. I think we can make some noise this year. However I don't think we can be championship calibar unless a guy stands up as the go to guy and our half court offense improves a lot.

So no, you are not reading that correctly.

beastlyskronk
02-08-2013, 03:49 PM
I don't think this team needs a good half court offense to be a championship team. We can force turnovers against any team this year, in year's past we weren't great at consistently forcing turnovers against the best teams. I think this year we'll have more success with it and we're always able to score in transition. Then Faried's energy and hustle on the boards is going to get us a lot of 2nd chance points. McGee doing the same off the bench really helps as well and his shot blocking/altering on the other end is a huge advantage for us. Also Gallo not flopping around like a fish out of water has really helped us because now he's able to use his height and length to create his own shot, and now that he's healthy he's knocking those shots down.

johnlimburg
02-08-2013, 03:55 PM
I disagree. In close games you need to be able to slow the game down, use the clock and run plays which put points on the board. You cannot just run run run and we have seen it happen with this team to many times. When the game gets close this team can't handle it. There offense becomes awful and they can't score points. Ty Lawson gets scared and turns the ball over, atleast this season and bad shots are taken. In playoff basketball the games will be close and you will need to effectivly run a half court offense. Until this team proves they can do that then I don't think we can call them championship calibar.

beastlyskronk
02-08-2013, 04:04 PM
I disagree. In close games you need to be able to slow the game down, use the clock and run plays which put points on the board. You cannot just run run run and we have seen it happen with this team to many times. When the game gets close this team can't handle it. There offense becomes awful and they can't score points. Ty Lawson gets scared and turns the ball over, atleast this season and bad shots are taken. In playoff basketball the games will be close and you will need to effectivly run a half court offense. Until this team proves they can do that then I don't think we can call them championship calibar.

I don't think you have to slow down the game in close games, I think that's one of our biggest problems. We'll let the game slow down and we'll start to lose our grip on the game. As long as we're forcing turnovers, we should continue to play at a high tempo. Even if we're not, as long as we're playing good defense we should always keep running. As far as Lawson, I don't think it has anything to do with Lawson getting scared. He's really small and he struggles with the length, so late in the game when the defensive intensity ramps up he'll struggle. I don't think Lawson should be running point late in a close game.

Broncoholic3233
02-08-2013, 04:30 PM
Gallo is turning into that guy, John.

Wilson can also be that guy...he has a sweet jumper.

58_VONDOOM_92
02-08-2013, 04:51 PM
I kinda agree with the whole "you need a superstar". The thing is though we have a couple potential superstars on our team. I really think Gallo and lawson can be those guys. Lawson just needs to continue to stay aggressive and Gallo is still very young and he's only going to get better. We have a very nicely built team right now and we haven't hit our full potential yet so yes I think you do need a superstar but Gallo and lawson may come that. They just need to play to there potential on a consistent basis.....

BroncNuggsRocks
02-08-2013, 05:04 PM
To be fair, that was before the bulls game i think.


edit: though still shut up, 7 game winning streak...

Houshmazode
02-08-2013, 08:51 PM
I really don't want to see any of our players traded away right now unless it's Mozgov/Hamilton/Randolph. Our team is deep and we have several pretty good players. Chandler has been playing awesome, I hope he doesn't get hurt again.

The way this team is built, it can succeed without a superstar. There's just too much depth.

I think we'll live and die in the playoffs by the way Lawson, Gallo, Chandler and Iguodala play. Faried is a beast and he's always very consistent, and Brewer always brings hustle and can help quickly turn a deficit into a lead any day. Lawson and Iguodala have to keep their turnovers down and if Gallo and Chandler can shoot the 3 consistently we'll be very dangerous.

Free throws just might do us in, though.

beastlyskronk
02-08-2013, 10:34 PM
I really don't want to see any of our players traded away right now unless it's Mozgov/Hamilton/Randolph. Our team is deep and we have several pretty good players. Chandler has been playing awesome, I hope he doesn't get hurt again.

The way this team is built, it can succeed without a superstar. There's just too much depth.

I think we'll live and die in the playoffs by the way Lawson, Gallo, Chandler and Iguodala play. Faried is a beast and he's always very consistent, and Brewer always brings hustle and can help quickly turn a deficit into a lead any day. Lawson and Iguodala have to keep their turnovers down and if Gallo and Chandler can shoot the 3 consistently we'll be very dangerous.

Free throws just might do us in, though.

Elite teams make their free throws, if we don't win in the postseason I believe this will ultimately be why, and really it's been the reason why the past few years. Free throws kept Derrick Rose from beating Mario Chalmers and his Jayhawks in the NCAA Finals. Superstars can be beat if you capitalize on your opportunities at the line.

johnlimburg
02-11-2013, 12:17 AM
Gallo is turning into that guy, John.

Wilson can also be that guy...he has a sweet jumper.

Yeah not really. Occasionally he is and he has shown some flashes however he is not reliable. And yes Wilson Chandler has a sweet jumper. Again it is inconsistant. We don't have a guy who will show up every night and can be relied upon at the end of the game. Since this thread was created there has been two games. Both of them games have showed exactly what I was saying.

Against the Cavs the offense went stagnant down the stretch. We couldn't put them away. They were hanging around and we were missing shots. We are just lucky in that game it was the Cavs. If it was a better offensive team we would have probably lost or just held onto the lead.

Then against Boston we seen it as well. Andre Miller was doing stupid crap trying to be a superstar. Ty Lawson had one nice shot at the end of regulation and some throughout overtime however he couldn't be relied upon. Gallo was streaky as he always is and hit some good shots but missed others.

In both of these games the half court offense was pretty terrible. The ball wasn't moving. It was a one man game or sometimes there would be a pick set and it became 2 vs 5. The team just looks so lost in the half court offense and again I wonder if the team does much work on it. Sort of like our free throws.

And you said that you are not fond of Andre Iguodalas overall play. I was just wondering besides his scoring what is he doing badly ? I have see you yet to address the things I post in regards to his overall play. 5th in assists at his position, 1st at his position in rebounding and statistically one of the top defenders in the game. His scoring is bad and everyone knows that however what don't you like about his overall play because you just keep repeating the same non sense and saying nothing reasonable to back it up.


I don't think you have to slow down the game in close games, I think that's one of our biggest problems. We'll let the game slow down and we'll start to lose our grip on the game. As long as we're forcing turnovers, we should continue to play at a high tempo. Even if we're not, as long as we're playing good defense we should always keep running. As far as Lawson, I don't think it has anything to do with Lawson getting scared. He's really small and he struggles with the length, so late in the game when the defensive intensity ramps up he'll struggle. I don't think Lawson should be running point late in a close game.

I agree. However it is what happens and it will always happen that way. The two games since this thread started it has happened in both of them. We slowed down and we were not as efficient. And it is unrealistic to expect turnovers late in games and to just run the offense at a high tempo. We need a player to rely on and we need a better half court offense down the stretch of games. If it doesn't happen we will probably be a first round loser again.

BroncNuggsRocks
02-11-2013, 12:20 AM
Isn't everybody inconsistent? I mean, unless they take 30+ shots a game, they aren't going to be consistently scoring 20+ points.

BroncNuggsRocks
02-11-2013, 12:33 AM
No. There are guys you can rely on. We don't have them guys. You look around the league and the best teams have guys who will consistantly come through in the clutch. You know what you will get from them game in and game out. Obviously these are the stars however you need that and that is the point. You need these guys on your team to go deep in the playoffs and be a championship calibar team.

Aren't the most clutch people in the league hovering around 30-40%? The best being carmelo who is just demolishing it in the clutch at somethin like 53%....

johnlimburg
02-11-2013, 01:08 AM
I don't know about the stats. I just know other teams have a guy they can go to. A guy who they can trust and expect to come through for the team. The offense doesn't look cluless in the clutch situations. Our offense in the half court looks horrible at the end of games and we don't know who to go to and we can't rely on anyone. That is the point I agree with Andre Miller about.

Broncoholic3233
02-11-2013, 01:16 AM
Gallo has the highest % of 3's when the game is close in the last 2 minutes or something saw on twitter the other day. soo...i'd say we can go to him most days, even tonight when he wasn't great he hit a great 3....we went to ty tonight and he did his thing for most of it.....it wasn't until andre tried to take over that we started to get stagnant and lost in 3rd OT

Houshmazode
02-11-2013, 01:42 PM
Does Andre want a superstar to rely on late in games so he doesn't have to come in and flub everything up?

Cyrend
02-11-2013, 02:00 PM
Bad couple of days for Andre Miller.

Broncoholic3233
02-11-2013, 02:04 PM
Bad couple of days for Andre Miller.

He definitely hasn't made any friends these past couple days.