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champ&dreallday
02-13-2013, 10:39 AM
Like many Denver fans, I'm still in shock and sick from our lost to Baltimore. I've never felt so bad/sad/devestated after a loss because of being favored, talented and having some unbelievable plays, calls against us. I'm a diehard Broncos fan for life, but I previously said I couldn't get excited about the regular season next year, only if we succeed in the playoffs.

I just heard an interview with Ray Rice on ESPN New York. They asked him if he felt like they were a team of destiny and couldn't lose. He didn't come out and say it, but he said everything but they didn't expect to beat Denver. He said after they survived us, they had no doubt they'd win it all. As good as our team was/is, I'm sure we all thought we'd beat Bmore, but to even hear him say it all started after they got past us meant a lot to me. Athletes usually think their team will win it all, but he talked like he didn't expect to get past us. He specifically said their thoughts changed after Denver.

I say all of that to say this, we have a great team and one to be excited about. I have been crushed since the day we lost, until today. Maybe this means nothing to you, but to me, this has been the 1st thing I've heard that makes me feel excited for next season. This offense will get better, I can't imagine the defense playing as bad as we did vs Bmore. Hopefully, more of us are starting to get over the loss and looking forward to next season.

BroncosDivision
02-13-2013, 10:48 AM
It still bugs the hell out of me.

I'm better off not talking about it at all and just focusing on what the Nuggets are doing right now. But yeah, being a fan of Rice, I guess it means something. Still, it was one fluky win.

one_bad_55
02-13-2013, 11:15 AM
It doesn't help me get over it. Every time I get on the Broncos forum or hear anything about how good the Ravens are my blood pressure goes up and all I can think of are all the horrible calls and non calls that cost us the game and probably the SB this year.

I am in therapy now so hopefully I can get over it before next season starts. :brick:

OrangeCrush_304
02-13-2013, 11:17 AM
The refs from the Baltimore and Denver game should get Super Bowl rings as well.

#24 Next Champ
02-13-2013, 01:22 PM
The refs from the Baltimore and Denver game should get Super Bowl rings as well.

No freakin kidding

Ah, it still pisses me off to no end...I really believe last year was our year to win it all

chad72
02-13-2013, 01:54 PM
1996 Broncos, a #1 seed, gets knocked out in the divisional round.

1997 Broncos come back and win the SB.


2005 Colts with Peyton as #1 seed, gets knocked out in the divisional round by an AFC North team, Steelers, who go on to win the SB.

2006 Colts with Peyton open vs Eli on the road, play Dallas on the road, win the first and lose the next one. But eventually, they win the SB.


But ultimately, it was the D and rushing attack that stepped up for both the 1997 Broncos and 2006 Colts that ultimately made the difference. Hopefully, that continues for Peyton and the Broncos in 2013.

Chillez
02-13-2013, 09:26 PM
No freakin kidding

Ah, it still pisses me off to no end...I really believe last year was our year to win it all

Yeah me too. It's depressing just thinking about that game. I will never forgot it for me it was one most heartbreaking losses ever as Broncos fan.

ravenfan4life
02-14-2013, 08:01 AM
So I was typing my browser an this forum started to come up, so I said, what's going on here.

Not many (including myself) expected to the Ravens to beat Denver. But to blame it on the refs, I just don't see it. There are some calls that could go either way in any game. But I didn't see any that were so obvious that were FOR the Ravens or AGAINST Denver that cost Denver or gave the game to Baltimore.

What calls is everyone so upset about?

chad72
02-14-2013, 08:07 AM
So I was typing my browser an this forum started to come up, so I said, what's going on here.

Not many (including myself) expected to the Ravens to beat Denver. But to blame it on the refs, I just don't see it. There are some calls that could go either way in any game. But I didn't see any that were so obvious that were FOR the Ravens or AGAINST Denver that cost Denver or gave the game to Baltimore.

What calls is everyone so upset about?

I think it was the hold on Eric Decker that actually led to 7 Ravens pts that I would have the most issue with.

#87Birdman
02-14-2013, 08:15 AM
So I was typing my browser an this forum started to come up, so I said, what's going on here.

Not many (including myself) expected to the Ravens to beat Denver. But to blame it on the refs, I just don't see it. There are some calls that could go either way in any game. But I didn't see any that were so obvious that were FOR the Ravens or AGAINST Denver that cost Denver or gave the game to Baltimore.

What calls is everyone so upset about?

It is more the inconsistency of the refs that were calling more in favor of the Ravens then the broncos.

Example 1
Carter's "PI" on the ravens first scoring series that allowed a score was called, but the intentional leg whip when DT beat the ravens DB wasn't called.

Example 2
The no call on the Ravens DB on the PI that lead to the pick 6 while Bailey was called for a PI that wasn't even PI in overtime.

Example 3
A hold called on the broncos on 3rd and 1 in which we picked up the first and the flag wasn't thrown until players were heading back to the huddle and the on smith's second TD Miller was giving the OT a piggy back ride trying to get to flacco but no call.

That was just a few and they keep on going with how poorly that game was called what was allowed for one team wasn't allowed for the other. Now the Broncos also played poorly but the refs were just as bad as the Broncos playing lol. The only thing that showed up that game was the Ravens. The refs weren't the only reason we lost but they were a part.

ravenfan4life
02-14-2013, 08:16 AM
I think it was the hold on Eric Decker that actually led to 7 Ravens pts that I would have the most issue with.

I don't see holding at all. Decker is the outside WR on this play. The DB is about 8 yards off and runs up to defend the pass. He may have gotten there a tad, and I do mean a tad early. But he makes almost no contact with Decker other than his hand as he is playing the ball, which a DB is allowed to do. If this is called PI, than damn near everything will be. The Superbowl was a great was of how games should be called, they let both teams be physical and this play wasn't even close to that...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_TjMqnYZqk

ravenfan4life
02-14-2013, 08:24 AM
It is more the inconsistency of the refs that were calling more in favor of the Ravens then the broncos.

Back in the day I used to watch the line of scrimmage more than anything and complain night and day about bad or no calls. But since I stopped and watched the whole field, more often than not calls even out.



Example 1
Carter's "PI" on the ravens first scoring series that allowed a score was called, but the intentional leg whip when DT beat the ravens DB wasn't called. While that was PI on the first Ravens 3rd down (you CANNOT get in front of a WR and slow down, essentially blocking him 30 yards down field, maybe not PI but definitely illegal contact).

The one on Champ in OT, I never saw a good enough angle to that was or wasn't but regardless it's not like the Ravens went on to score on that drive



Example 2
The no call on the Ravens DB on the PI that lead to the pick 6 while Bailey was called for a PI that wasn't even PI in overtime. Alredy covered in previous post.



Example 3
A hold called on the broncos on 3rd and 1 in which we picked up the first and the flag wasn't thrown until players were heading back to the huddle and the on smith's second TD Miller was giving the OT a piggy back ride trying to get to flacco but no call.

What about the hold on Cary Williams (when he placed his hand on Decker (I think) and we stopped you on 3rd down? Than a few plays later D. Thomas goes in for a score? Had they not called a penalty that wasn't there, you would not have gone up 35 -28



That was just a few and they keep on going with how poorly that game was called what was allowed for one team wasn't allowed for the other. Now the Broncos also played poorly but the refs were just as bad as the Broncos playing lol. The only thing that showed up that game was the Ravens. The refs weren't the only reason we lost but they were a part.

And if you won, Ravens fans would be saying the same thing. Trust me. Visit any forum of a losing team and everyone thinks the refs favored the winning team.

#87Birdman
02-14-2013, 08:36 AM
Back in the day I used to watch the line of scrimmage more than anything and complain night and day about bad or no calls. But since I stopped and watched the whole field, more often than not calls even out.

While that was PI on the first Ravens 3rd down (you CANNOT get in front of a WR and slow down, essentially blocking him 30 yards down field, maybe not PI but definitely illegal contact).

The one on Champ in OT, I never saw a good enough angle to that was or wasn't but regardless it's not like the Ravens went on to score on that drive

Alredy covered in previous post.



What about the hold on Cary Williams (when he placed his hand on Decker (I think) and we stopped you on 3rd down? Than a few plays later D. Thomas goes in for a score? Had they not called a penalty that wasn't there, you would not have gone up 35 -28



And if you won, Ravens fans would be saying the same thing. Trust me. Visit any forum of a losing team and everyone thinks the refs favored the winning team.

Yeah the one on Champ was a third down play and allowed the field position. It was less PI than that pick 6 hence the consistency arguement. I just gave 3 examples tehre were so many bad calls no calls inconsistent calls in that game it was rediculous. But I liked how you didn't even mention williams leg whip and went straight to Champs PI.

There was the Boldin's "completion" off the ground
The tuck rule that must have changed for that game
The illegal practice kick which should have been 15 yards.

Problem with all these was the timing and inconsistency. Broncos got hammered by calls on third down on calls that as I pointed out the Ravens were allowed to do. But like I said the Ravens showed up and played a great game the Broncos didnt and the part time ref (which he was. Refs college basketball when not doing NFL). But the past is the past and I was just answering your question. Regardless if you want the more in depth breakdown there is a thread around here somewhere.

But congrats on your team being vicotrious.

ravenfan4life
02-14-2013, 08:47 AM
But I liked how you didn't even mention williams leg whip and went straight to Champs PI.I honestly don't remember that.



There was the Boldin's "completion" off the ground It was a catch on the field, he tucked into in to his body and from the video you couldn't see he ever lost control, the ball is allowed to tocuh the ground if it's contorlled by the WR


The tuck rule that must have changed for that game The tuck rule blows, the only reason it took so long to get rid of is the NFL didn't want to admit the Raiders got screwed back in 2001. If that was a tuck rule, I won't apologize for that, it's a stupid rule. But the thing is Manning started to repossess the ball with his other hand so I could see why they didn't call that.


The illegal practice kick which should have been 15 yards.
It's not illegal, nor is it really legal, there is just no penalty for it
http://deadspin.com/5975542/justin-tuckers-practice-kicks-before-his-game+winner-were-not-allowed-but-they-were-also-not-not-allowed



But congrats on your team being vicotrious.

Thanks!

broncsfan219
02-14-2013, 10:08 AM
You're right that the ball can touch the ground but it cannot move at all and with boldin you can clearly see the ball roll on the ground/shifting while on the ground which should have been an easy incomplete call... also on the decker play yes he got there a tad early which isn't legal btw its a matter of the db on that play hooked his arm which enabled him to make the attempt to make a catch which by definition should be pass interference.

one_bad_55
02-14-2013, 11:08 AM
You don't want to get me started on the refs because we will be here for days.

The first game changing call was the Carter PI on 3rd and long. If you are running shoulder to shoulder with the receiver and you are looking back for the ball you are allowed contact with said receiver including running ahead of them trying to make a play on the ball (Which by the way was overthrown by about 5 yards and could not have been caught by either player) Should have been ruled a non catch-able ball if anything. Had they not made the call the Ravens Punt the ball but on the next play you score on long hail mary pass. Refs+Ravens+7 points given to the Ravens

Next possession the Broncos throw the to Eric Decker and there was contact before the ball got there where the DB grabbed Decker's arm causing the ball to deflect off his hand for a pick six. NO CALL on the PI Refs+Ravens+7 More points given to the Ravens

Next Possession the Broncos throw a long pass to DT and the DB falls down and leg whips DT tripping him causing the ball to fall incomplete at the 5 yard line. This should have been PI and the ball should have been placed at the Ravens 5 Yard line. This would have led to at least 3 points if not a TD. Refs+Ravens+3-7 Taken from the Broncos

Now lets talk about the holding call on the Broncos on 3rd and 1. We get the first down on the play and while the players are walking back to the huddle here comes a VERY-VERY late flag. Holding on an interior lineman on a dive play. THIS CALL IS NEVER MADE IN THE NFL, NEVER. The result was 3rd and long, in which the Manning Tuck/Incomplete Pass comes into play. He was losing the ball in his throwing motion and never regained control. Yet even after reviewing the play they still said he fumbled it. You can see the ball spin out of his hand, and he bobbles the ball against his legs trying to regain possession in which he never could. This led to 7 more points for the Ravens on a short field. Refs+Raven+7 more points given to the Ravens.

Now lets talk about the second Smith TD pass. Watch the replay and tell me that your tackle was not hog tying Von Miller by the neck basically tackling him in a choke hold during this play. No Call against the Ravens for holding but they can call holding on the Broncos on a dive play? As a matter of fact the Ravens were not called for 1 holding call in 5 periods against the two best edge rushers in the league. Interesting. Ref+Ravens+7 more points given to the Ravens

Now lets talk about the Boldin completed pass that was trapped. Baltimore starts at is own 20 yard line and on 3rd & 8 they throw to Boldin who clearly traps the ball. You could clearly see the ball spin as the laces come into view as he is hitting the ground. If the ball is still moving when it hits the ground you do NOT have control of the ball. Now this play by itself is not that big but it did move the Ravens to the 33 yard line. Three plays later on 3rd & 4 they call Champ for PI which when you look at the replay there was very little contact (Less contact than the no call on the Decker Pick Six PI) which now moves the ball to the Ravens 39. The next 3 plays were 2 runs for 8 yards and a sack. to force a punt from the Ravens 49 yard line.

Now while these calls didn't give points to the Ravens they did cost us over 35 yards in field position which certainly could have led to points for the Broncos. However because of the results the Broncos had to start this drive at our 16 yard line instead of closer to mid field.

Now lets talk about the practice kicks between the OT periods. It is a rule that in between periods no one from either team can be on the field unless they are either the trainers or substitutions. The result of a player being on the field is a 15 yard penalty.

Here is the rule right out of the NFL rule book. It is Rule 4 Under Game Timing.

Article 2There will be intervals of at least two minutes between the first and second periods (first half) and between the third and fourth periods (second half). During these intermissions all playing rules continue in force, and no representative of either team shall enter the field unless he is an incoming substitute, or a team attendant or trainer, entering to see to the welfare of a player.

Penalty: For illegally entering the field: Loss of 15 yards from the succeeding spot (13-1-6-Pen.). The Back Judge times the two-minute intermissions and shall sound his whistle (and signal visibly) after one minute and 50 seconds. The Referee shall sound his whistle immediately thereafter for play to start and for the play clock operator to start the 25-second clock. See 4-6-2.

These are just the main penalties that cost the Broncos the win over the Ravens. This game should have been a blow out for the Broncos but instead the refs were involved in giving the Ravens at least 21 points by the ridiculous calls and non calls they were making.

Now there were some bad calls on the Ravens as well but they had little effect on the outcome of the game. They were little 5 yard hands to the face deep in Denver territory, 5 yard PI calls that again were deep in Denver's territory.

The problem most fans have with the refs in this game was the complete lack of consistency.

Almost all the calls they made on the Broncos resulted in points for the Ravens. It was as if the refs were trying to keep the Ravens in the game.

Sorry but this game just gets my goat and it pisses me off that the refs can have such an influence on a game.

champ&dreallday
02-14-2013, 01:16 PM
ravenfan4life, I have been one of the biggest critics of people blaming the refs. We played terrible on defense and didn't look as well as we had for a while on offense. However, I saw many horrible calls, not just bad after seeing the replay, but horrible period. I don't think I've ever saw a hold call on a dive play, 3rd and 1, not sure if it was a FB dive or a HB dive, either play happens so fast, it's almost impossible to hold. My 8 year old nephew (a Ravens fan) said yes he kicked him, when Graham leg whipped Thomas in the end zone, he was actually happy thinking that was a legal play in football. Boldins catch in OT was horrible, the ball clearly rotated. I can see missing it live, but to watch the replay, both announcers said it was incomplete after the replay and were amazed the refs still called it a catch. I could say they let the players play and didin't wanna call PI, but the PI on Carter on an uncatchable pass and the PI on Bailey was crazy, at the same time the PI against BMore on Thomas was a bit lame as well. That was the only call I saw that was somewhat favorable to Denver.

Bmore definitely played harder and I can't take anything away from you. The refs were horrible and I saw several unbelievable calls. However, if our defense showed up and we didn't go in prevent mode on offense and defense it doesn't matter. Congrats to the city of Bmore.

ravenfan4life
02-14-2013, 01:30 PM
You don't want to get me started on the refs because we will be here for days.

The first game changing call was the Carter PI on 3rd and long. If you are running shoulder to shoulder with the receiver and you are looking back for the ball you are allowed contact with said receiver including running ahead of them trying to make a play on the ball (Which by the way was overthrown by about 5 yards and could not have been caught by either player) Should have been ruled a non catch-able ball if anything. Had they not made the call the Ravens Punt the ball but on the next play you score on long hail mary pass. Refs+Ravens+7 points given to the Ravens

Next possession the Broncos throw the to Eric Decker and there was contact before the ball got there where the DB grabbed Decker's arm causing the ball to deflect off his hand for a pick six. NO CALL on the PI Refs+Ravens+7 More points given to the Ravens

Next Possession the Broncos throw a long pass to DT and the DB falls down and leg whips DT tripping him causing the ball to fall incomplete at the 5 yard line. This should have been PI and the ball should have been placed at the Ravens 5 Yard line. This would have led to at least 3 points if not a TD. Refs+Ravens+3-7 Taken from the Broncos

Now lets talk about the holding call on the Broncos on 3rd and 1. We get the first down on the play and while the players are walking back to the huddle here comes a VERY-VERY late flag. Holding on an interior lineman on a dive play. THIS CALL IS NEVER MADE IN THE NFL, NEVER. The result was 3rd and long, in which the Manning Tuck/Incomplete Pass comes into play. He was losing the ball in his throwing motion and never regained control. Yet even after reviewing the play they still said he fumbled it. You can see the ball spin out of his hand, and he bobbles the ball against his legs trying to regain possession in which he never could. This led to 7 more points for the Ravens on a short field. Refs+Raven+7 more points given to the Ravens.

Now lets talk about the second Smith TD pass. Watch the replay and tell me that your tackle was not hog tying Von Miller by the neck basically tackling him in a choke hold during this play. No Call against the Ravens for holding but they can call holding on the Broncos on a dive play? As a matter of fact the Ravens were not called for 1 holding call in 5 periods against the two best edge rushers in the league. Interesting. Ref+Ravens+7 more points given to the Ravens

Now lets talk about the Boldin completed pass that was trapped. Baltimore starts at is own 20 yard line and on 3rd & 8 they throw to Boldin who clearly traps the ball. You could clearly see the ball spin as the laces come into view as he is hitting the ground. If the ball is still moving when it hits the ground you do NOT have control of the ball. Now this play by itself is not that big but it did move the Ravens to the 33 yard line. Three plays later on 3rd & 4 they call Champ for PI which when you look at the replay there was very little contact (Less contact than the no call on the Decker Pick Six PI) which now moves the ball to the Ravens 39. The next 3 plays were 2 runs for 8 yards and a sack. to force a punt from the Ravens 49 yard line.

Now while these calls didn't give points to the Ravens they did cost us over 35 yards in field position which certainly could have led to points for the Broncos. However because of the results the Broncos had to start this drive at our 16 yard line instead of closer to mid field.

Now lets talk about the practice kicks between the OT periods. It is a rule that in between periods no one from either team can be on the field unless they are either the trainers or substitutions. The result of a player being on the field is a 15 yard penalty.

Here is the rule right out of the NFL rule book. It is Rule 4 Under Game Timing.

Article 2There will be intervals of at least two minutes between the first and second periods (first half) and between the third and fourth periods (second half). During these intermissions all playing rules continue in force, and no representative of either team shall enter the field unless he is an incoming substitute, or a team attendant or trainer, entering to see to the welfare of a player.

Penalty: For illegally entering the field: Loss of 15 yards from the succeeding spot (13-1-6-Pen.). The Back Judge times the two-minute intermissions and shall sound his whistle (and signal visibly) after one minute and 50 seconds. The Referee shall sound his whistle immediately thereafter for play to start and for the play clock operator to start the 25-second clock. See 4-6-2.

These are just the main penalties that cost the Broncos the win over the Ravens. This game should have been a blow out for the Broncos but instead the refs were involved in giving the Ravens at least 21 points by the ridiculous calls and non calls they were making.

Now there were some bad calls on the Ravens as well but they had little effect on the outcome of the game. They were little 5 yard hands to the face deep in Denver territory, 5 yard PI calls that again were deep in Denver's territory.

The problem most fans have with the refs in this game was the complete lack of consistency.

Almost all the calls they made on the Broncos resulted in points for the Ravens. It was as if the refs were trying to keep the Ravens in the game.

Sorry but this game just gets my goat and it pisses me off that the refs can have such an influence on a game.

I think what we have her is a case of bias. It's cool, I get it.

I've watched all those plays you mentioned. And nothing is so egregious that it can be said the refs cost anyone the game.

You can view most of them here. http://www.nfl.com/videos/baltimore-ravens/0ap2000000125523/GameDay-Ravens-vs-Broncos-highlights

ravenfan4life
02-14-2013, 01:35 PM
ravenfan4life, I have been one of the biggest critics of people blaming the refs. We played terrible on defense and didn't look as well as we had for a while on offense. However, I saw many horrible calls, not just bad after seeing the replay, but horrible period. I don't think I've ever saw a hold call on a dive play, 3rd and 1, not sure if it was a FB dive or a HB dive, either play happens so fast, it's almost impossible to hold. My 8 year old nephew (a Ravens fan) said yes he kicked him, when Graham leg whipped Thomas in the end zone, he was actually happy thinking that was a legal play in football. Boldins catch in OT was horrible, the ball clearly rotated. I can see missing it live, but to watch the replay, both announcers said it was incomplete after the replay and were amazed the refs still called it a catch. I could say they let the players play and didin't wanna call PI, but the PI on Carter on an uncatchable pass and the PI on Bailey was crazy, at the same time the PI against BMore on Thomas was a bit lame as well. That was the only call I saw that was somewhat favorable to Denver.

Bmore definitely played harder and I can't take anything away from you. The refs were horrible and I saw several unbelievable calls. However, if our defense showed up and we didn't go in prevent mode on offense and defense it doesn't matter. Congrats to the city of Bmore.

You know, what's funny is the people I was watching the game with were all screaming at the refs when we were losing. I live in NC and every basketball season Duke, UNC and NC state go after each other and the loser always talks about the refs.

Bad officiating is in every game of every sport, humans are perfect but to say that only one call against the Ravens was bad is just not right. I'll rewatch the game tonight to see if I missed anything. But there was the one "holding call" on Cary Williams I mentioned before where we had you stopped on 3rd down and a few plays later you went up 35 -28. Bad officiating usually evens out,

broncsfan219
02-14-2013, 01:49 PM
You know, what's funny is the people I was watching the game with were all screaming at the refs when we were losing. I live in NC and every basketball season Duke, UNC and NC state go after each other and the loser always talks about the refs.

Bad officiating is in every game of every sport, humans are perfect but to say that only one call against the Ravens was bad is just not right. I'll rewatch the game tonight to see if I missed anything. But there was the one "holding call" on Cary Williams I mentioned before where we had you stopped on 3rd down and a few plays later you went up 35 -28. Bad officiating usually evens out,

So we as fans point out many many bad calls. you list one and call it even? Give me break.

champ&dreallday
02-14-2013, 01:55 PM
Like I said, I'm not saying the refs cost us the game, I'm one of the few. The refs cost Green Bay the game vs Seattle on one huge play. We lost becuase we didn't play well on D, and when had chances late to get a 1st and run out the clock but we played the #'s and punted. I'm not saying the refs don't make mistakes or that they gave ya'll the game, but I can say they made horrible calls, and only that I can recall, the PI on Williams on 3rd down vs Thomas, that was BS and went in our favor. Bad calls happen all the time, but I can recall at least 5, that were just ridiculous. Have you ever seen a hold on a dive play, 3rd and 1??? LOL, seriously, if you have I'd love to see it, a dive is the fastest play in football. PI on Carter on 3rd down was the definition of uncatchable. No penalty for practicing kicks between regulation and overtime. I didn't even know it was a 15 yard penalty, but it was one of the 1st things the commentators said once Overtime started. I'm saying if the commentators knew it was a flag, how come the refs don't seem to know.

Again, not

ravenfan4life
02-14-2013, 01:58 PM
So we as fans point out many many bad calls. you list one and call it even? Give me break.

I list one, because that's what I remember, we've played two game s since then. Had it been our last I'd have sat around and stewed on them convincing myself the refs and not our play is the reason we lost.

Since so many are complaining about it, my curiosity has peaked and like I said, I will rewatch it tonight

champ&dreallday
02-14-2013, 01:59 PM
Ravenfan4life, again I hate blaming the refs for anything, and I won't say they're the main reason we lost. Bmore won/took the game and hats off to you. Moore played that pass to Jacoby as badly as you can along with several other mistakes we made, which are our fault hurt us more than the refs. But it leaves a bad taste in our mouths losing the way we did. I'm not one of the ones blaming the refs the most, but I hear where they're coming from.

ravenfan4life
02-14-2013, 02:02 PM
Like I said, I'm not saying the refs cost us the game, I'm one of the few. The refs cost Green Bay the game vs Seattle on one huge play. We lost becuase we didn't play well on D, and when had chances late to get a 1st and run out the clock but we played the #'s and punted. I'm not saying the refs don't make mistakes or that they gave ya'll the game, but I can say they made horrible calls, and only that I can recall, the PI on Williams on 3rd down vs Thomas, that was BS and went in our favor. Bad calls happen all the time, but I can recall at least 5, that were just ridiculous. Have you ever seen a hold on a dive play, 3rd and 1??? LOL, seriously, if you have I'd love to see it, a dive is the fastest play in football. PI on Carter on 3rd down was the definition of uncatchable. No penalty for practicing kicks between regulation and overtime. I didn't even know it was a 15 yard penalty, but it was one of the 1st things the commentators said once Overtime started. I'm saying if the commentators knew it was a flag, how come the refs don't seem to know.

Again, not

I don't recall if I've seen a holding on a dive or not, but I wouldn't bet a dollar it's the fisrt time it's happened.

The PI on Carter was at least illegal contact. THe highlights do not have a good angle of it, and when I saw the flag I said "uh, that might be a bad call" (yes I do believe the refs do that even when it favors my team). After watching a few replays Carter at the least made illegal contact. The ball was uncatchable becuase of the contact.

The leg whip, I think you're referring to the incidental contact where their legs (Williams and Thomas) got tangled and they both went down. But as I said before my touristy has peaked and I will rewatch the game.

theMileHighGuy
02-14-2013, 02:02 PM
Ravens guy, there wasn't one holding call against Baltimore the whole game. Not one. That is almost impossible. There was a play late in the third where Dumervil was mugged and they nearly pulled his jersey off.

I wasn't the amount of penalties that bothered me though. It was when. Half of the penalties called on the Broncos extended the Ravens' drives and led to points. If you can watch Champ's pass interference and say straight up that it was a good call, then you're the one that's biased.

If Rahim Moore doesn't try and be a hero that game is over, and with any other officiating crew it wouldn't have been close.

ravenfan4life
02-14-2013, 02:06 PM
Ravenfan4life, again I hate blaming the refs for anything, and I won't say they're the main reason we lost. Bmore won/took the game and hats off to you. Moore played that pass to Jacoby as badly as you can along with several other mistakes we made, which are our fault hurt us more than the refs. But it leaves a bad taste in our mouths losing the way we did. I'm not one of the ones blaming the refs the most, but I hear where they're coming from.

When you lose, you always look at the reason you lost, and when a call goes against you it tends to outshine the ones that went against the other team. Like I said, I get it.

TO me, regardless it was one of the best games ever, even if my team wasn't in it. An INT return for a TD, a kickoff, a punt return for a TD, a 59 yard TD, a 36 yard TD to end the half and a 70 yard TD to end the game. How often does that happen?? The way that game happened I can see having a bad taste in your mouth.

ravenfan4life
02-14-2013, 02:13 PM
Ravens guy, there wasn't one holding call against Baltimore the whole game. Not one. That is almost impossible. There was a play late in the third where Dumervil was mugged and they nearly pulled his jersey off. I will rewatch it as I said.



I wasn't the amount of penalties that bothered me though. It was when. Half of the penalties called on the Broncos extended the Ravens' drives and led to points. I don't recall that at all. The majority of the calls everyone is complaing about didn't lead to points. Especially the one below.


If you can watch Champ's pass interference and say straight up that it was a good call, then you're the one that's biased. Actually I said I never saw a good angle to say one way or the other.



If Rahim Moore doesn't try and be a hero that game is over, and with any other officiating crew it wouldn't have been close.

And if ifs and buts were candy and nuts we 'd all have a merry christmas. You change the officiating crew and not just the calls or no calls change but the entire game changes. Ever hear of the butterfly affect?

I saw a good breakdown of the Moore play, it was not that bad of an error on his part as it seems. I'll see if I can find it.

EDIT: Breakdown of Mile high miracle
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/NFL-Playoffs-revisited-Jones-TD-grab-vs-Broncos.html

champ&dreallday
02-14-2013, 02:13 PM
When you lose, you always look at the reason you lost, and when a call goes against you it tends to outshine the ones that went against the other team. Like I said, I get it.

TO me, regardless it was one of the best games ever, even if my team wasn't in it. An INT return for a TD, a kickoff, a punt return for a TD, a 59 yard TD, a 36 yard TD to end the half and a 70 yard TD to end the game. How often does that happen?? The way that game happened I can see having a bad taste in your mouth.

A lot of people say that game was a classic, and it had some classic moments, but not to a Broncos fan. It was close and went to double OT, but I don't think anyone will say the Broncos defense was great, not the way it was great the last 11 weeks of the season. Either Decker or Thomas put up major stats in almost every game this season, but neither did much of anything in the game. As good as the game was to many fans, it wasn't that great to me, not just becuase we lost, but because no one but Trindon Holiday had a great game for us. If Manning was on fire and Thomas or Decker played lights out, maybe, but we stunk it up despite scoring 30+, that's why we lost in my opinion, not because of the refs

ERoyal248
02-14-2013, 02:18 PM
First, the refs aren't THE sole reason we lost but to act like Bal didn't get some very fortunate calls is not true.

There are so many reasons to blame for that loss.

Now to the bad calls.

- The PI on Carter on Doss, i believe the ball went out of bounds.
- Decker/Graham play should of been PI, they got the pick-six, if the Carter/Doss play is PI, then that is too.
- Cary Williams kicks/trips DT, no penalty, might have gotten a TD on that drive, don't remember.
- 3rd-1, got the first, out of nowhere, holding, next play, strip/fumble, Bal got 7.
- The Boldin bobble in OT, clearly bobbles and hits the ground.
- Champ PI on Smith, looked like a good play, penalty.
- A couple holding calls not called.

And yes, Bal was a team of destiny if there was anything like that.

That game still hurts.

ravenfan4life
02-14-2013, 02:30 PM
A lot of people say that game was a classic, and it had some classic moments, but not to a Broncos fan. It was close and went to double OT, but I don't think anyone will say the Broncos defense was great, not the way it was great the last 11 weeks of the season. Either Decker or Thomas put up major stats in almost every game this season, but neither did much of anything in the game. As good as the game was to many fans, it wasn't that great to me, not just becuase we lost, but because no one but Trindon Holiday had a great game for us. If Manning was on fire and Thomas or Decker played lights out, maybe, but we stunk it up despite scoring 30+, that's why we lost in my opinion, not because of the refs

Manning was great... in the first half. I think he said the reason why he did not have as much success in the second half is because the safeties started playing deeper and different. Instead of Reed's normal gambling he played more responsible and it forced shorter more contested thorws...

champ&dreallday
02-14-2013, 02:36 PM
Great in the 1st half doesn't equal great, lol. You make your money in this league in the 4th quarter. The safety's played well and kept everything in front of them. To me that would be playing into Peytons hand, he's never been a QB with a cannon, but will pick a team apart with intermediate passes.

58_VONDOOM_92
02-14-2013, 02:40 PM
This game still hurts.

It was the worse game we played all season. Eveything seemed off and out of sink. Im still sick to my stomach from it and still dont know how it happened the way it did and may never know.

Hopefully ill get over this loss sooner rather then later cause the feeling is still coming back as a nightmare

ravenfan4life
02-14-2013, 02:40 PM
Great in the 1st half doesn't equal great, lol. You make your money in this league in the 4th quarter. The safety's played well and kept everything in front of them. To me that would be playing into Peytons hand, he's never been a QB with a cannon, but will pick a team apart with intermediate passes.

True but the big WR's Denver has are not made for short cutting quick routes. The bigger the body the longer it takes to move. The Ravens played pretty tight coverage towards the line so the passes needed to be deep.

NOt to mention the safeties and corners did not have to worry much about the running game, so he didn't have much to work with there.

ravenfan4life
02-14-2013, 02:42 PM
This game still hurts.

It was the worse game we played all season. Eveything seemed off and out of sink. Im still sick to my stomach from it and still dont know how it happened the way it did and may never know.

Hopefully ill get over this loss sooner rather then later cause the feeling is still coming back as a nightmare

Trust me. As a fan of the team that has gotten bounced from the playoffs two of the previous 4 playoff appearances from their arch rival, the most recent after being up at the half by two TD's and last year a dropped TD and miss filed goal in the final seconds, you're over it by the Draft at the latest.

one_bad_55
02-14-2013, 03:41 PM
There was another play where we had a 3rd & 7 and Terrell Suggs dropped in to coverage and he hit our FB before the ball was even 5 yards from every getting to our player and they did not call PI. This was so obvious as the player he hit was on the ground before the ball even got there. NO CALL.

This is the kind crap that pisses me off is the one sided, slanted, biased calls made by the refs from the start of the game until the very end.

They also reviewed several plays and not once did they overturn a call on the field even though there was enough evidence to overturn the calls. Even the announcers could not believe they upheld the calls after the reviews.

Even the announcers couldn't believe some of the calls.

Announcer's comments;

"They got away with one there", referring to Baltimore's interference on the Decker Pick Six

"That should have drawn a flag", referring to the trip on DT at the five yard line.

"I think that is going to be an incomplete pass because he is losing it on the way down" referring to Manning Tuck/Fumble Another comment during the review was "I do not know how they can rule it a fumble" & after they upheld the call on the field "I am very surprised at that"

Both the announcers. "I think it is going to be an incomplete call" referring to the trapped catch by Boldin
During the Review "I think the ground aided him in the catch of the ball"

"From that angle you certainly can't see it" "I didn't see it" Both referring to the Champ PI call.

You want to see some of these horrible calls watch this video. Oh, by the way this video does not even show all of them. There were also at least two holding calls not made against the Ravens, one on the 50 yard TD pass to Smith and the other one where Doom about had his jersey ripped off his back.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=VVXIDNFaiLc

broncoslover115
02-14-2013, 04:02 PM
This game still hurts.

It was the worse game we played all season. Eveything seemed off and out of sink. Im still sick to my stomach from it and still dont know how it happened the way it did and may never know.

Hopefully ill get over this loss sooner rather then later cause the feeling is still coming back as a nightmare

I was talking to someone today and we were discussing football. They are Pats and when he found out I am a Broncos fan he said, "you must have been sick by how the refs screwed you guys over." I still can't talk about this game without getting so angry that I want to spit. It just comes fuming out of me. I'm not sure I'll ever get over it. At least I felt kind of validated when he said that.

Taos_Broncomaniac
02-14-2013, 07:09 PM
I recorded the game since you tend to miss a lot when you're at the stadium. I was only able to bring myself to watch it once since then but recall commenting to my brother later that the Ravens defenders seemed to be piling on our running backs especially Moreno after they were down

Saw some of the same in their games against the Pats and the Niners. Just sayin'

simplistickhaos
02-14-2013, 10:59 PM
Baltimore's safeties backed up in the 2nd half because Knowshon was out, therefore they no longer had to worry about a rushing attack and could play a more conservative pass defense. Knowshon doesn't get hurt, we win easily.

fallforward3y+
02-14-2013, 11:03 PM
I have absolutely no clue why such a statement would mean anything to anyone...you get a good win, it makes you believe in things...no big suprise

Brohemoth
02-15-2013, 06:50 AM
Why are we arguing about the refs? If Rahim Moore makes the play on a pass that should be intercepted or batted, the Ravens would be an afterthought and Flacco would still be in the "Will he ever be elite?" talks. Funny what one person can do. Rahim just won the lottery for Flacco too with the contract he's going to get.

ravenfan4life
02-15-2013, 06:56 AM
Baltimore's safeties backed up in the 2nd half because Knowshon was out, therefore they no longer had to worry about a rushing attack and could play a more conservative pass defense. Knowshon doesn't get hurt, we win easily.

Moreno wasn't exactly effective either.

ravenfan4life
02-15-2013, 07:04 AM
Why are we arguing about the refs? If Rahim Moore makes the play on a pass that should be intercepted or batted, the Ravens would be an afterthought and Flacco would still be in the "Will he ever be elite?" talks. Funny what one person can do. Rahim just won the lottery for Flacco too with the contract he's going to get.

Maybe. There was also a guy streaking down the center of the field who might have had the same result

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/NFL-Playoffs-revisited-Jones-TD-grab-vs-Broncos.html

Brohemoth
02-15-2013, 07:42 AM
Maybe. There was also a guy streaking down the center of the field who might have had the same result

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/NFL-Playoffs-revisited-Jones-TD-grab-vs-Broncos.html

There is no "maybe" about it. Flacco made the throw that would have ended your season had it been just about any other safety in the league defending it.

ravenfan4life
02-15-2013, 08:00 AM
Even the announcers couldn't believe some of the calls.
Announcer's comments;
"They got away with one there", referring to Baltimore's interference on the Decker Pick Six
"That should have drawn a flag", referring to the trip on DT at the five yard line.
"I think that is going to be an incomplete pass because he is losing it on the way down" referring to Manning Tuck/Fumble Another comment during the review was "I do not know how they can rule it a fumble" & after they upheld the call on the field "I am very surprised at that"
Both the announcers. "I think it is going to be an incomplete call" referring to the trapped catch by Boldin
During the Review "I think the ground aided him in the catch of the ball"
"From that angle you certainly can't see it" "I didn't see it" Both referring to the Champ PI call.

You’ve listed all the comments from the announcers as your evidence, but the very first penalty shown on the video you left off “But look at all the contact, that is way beyond the 5 yard point, that alone could have drawn a flag”

So lets just review the plays and leave the comments out. Plus Dan Dierdoorf is a giant tool which I think there was a thread about before this game on this forum.

1st play: 3rd down and 8 from the 8 (5 yards for contact would be the 13 yard line)
At the 16 yard line Carter makes contact (illegal contact at this point) and continues the contact all the way to the 30 while the ball is in the air making it pass interference.

2nd play: The defender made a play on the ball, which he is allowed to do. He makes contact with Decker (I paused it) when the ball is roughly a foot maybe two away. Without the benefit of replay, no ref could call that, certainly not in real time

3rd play: On the replay at the 2:30 to 2:32 mark, DT sticks his arm out and pushes Williams down, which it than does appear as Williams sticks his leg out. But the contact was first initiated by Thomas, making him the one the penalty should have been called on.

4th play: I’ll give you that one, Suggs got there early, but I had to pause it to be able to see the ball was about halfway there on a3 yard pass, again without replay no ref could have called that. BUT they did miss that one

5th play: on the replay at the 3:45 mark Kuper clearly has a hold of Kemo’s (#96) jersey, which he appears to be pulling and using for leverage. Maybe ticky tack, but a hold nonetheless

6th play: A) Not a tuck rule, Manning had the ball wobble in his hand, but did not lose control (if he did he would have not been able to bring it to his body like he did) and he reposed the ball with his other hand after having brought it back down. B) Would you really want to benefit from the tuck rule???? C) Kruger was held on that play not called (that happens a lot for or against every team)

7th play: Boldin pinned the ball to his chest the entire way to the ground and through the catch. Look when he rolls over the ball and his hand are in the exact same spot. If it wasn’t a catch CLEARLY there was not 100% conclusive evidence to overturn the call on the field.

8th play: Champ clearly got there early. Watch the replay in slow motion. At the 10:11 mark Champ starts to contact Smith grabs him with his right arm at the 10:13 mark and hooks Smith to make a play on the ball. Good call.

9th play: I guess there could have been a penalty there, but Denver still had a chance to block and defend the kick. I mean after that whole game seriously that’s not what I’d be worried about.


You want to see some of these horrible calls watch this video. Oh, by the way this video does not even show all of them. There were also at least two holding calls not made against the Ravens, one on the 50 yard TD pass to Smith and the other one where Doom about had his jersey ripped off his back. Holding could be called on every play, complaining about non-calls seems kind of petty.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=VVXIDNFaiLc[/QUOTE]

ravenfan4life
02-15-2013, 08:01 AM
There is no "maybe" about it. Flacco made the throw that would have ended your season had it been just about any other safety in the league defending it.

That seems like a maybe....

#87Birdman
02-15-2013, 08:23 AM
You’ve listed all the comments from the announcers as your evidence, but the very first penalty shown on the video you left off “But look at all the contact, that is way beyond the 5 yard point, that alone could have drawn a flag”

So lets just review the plays and leave the comments out. Plus Dan Dierdoorf is a giant tool which I think there was a thread about before this game on this forum.

1st play: 3rd down and 8 from the 8 (5 yards for contact would be the 13 yard line)
At the 16 yard line Carter makes contact (illegal contact at this point) and continues the contact all the way to the 30 while the ball is in the air making it pass interference.

2nd play: The defender made a play on the ball, which he is allowed to do. He makes contact with Decker (I paused it) when the ball is roughly a foot maybe two away. Without the benefit of replay, no ref could call that, certainly not in real time

3rd play: On the replay at the 2:30 to 2:32 mark, DT sticks his arm out and pushes Williams down, which it than does appear as Williams sticks his leg out. But the contact was first initiated by Thomas, making him the one the penalty should have been called on.

4th play: I’ll give you that one, Suggs got there early, but I had to pause it to be able to see the ball was about halfway there on a3 yard pass, again without replay no ref could have called that. BUT they did miss that one

5th play: on the replay at the 3:45 mark Kuper clearly has a hold of Kemo’s (#96) jersey, which he appears to be pulling and using for leverage. Maybe ticky tack, but a hold nonetheless

6th play: A) Not a tuck rule, Manning had the ball wobble in his hand, but did not lose control (if he did he would have not been able to bring it to his body like he did) and he reposed the ball with his other hand after having brought it back down. B) Would you really want to benefit from the tuck rule???? C) Kruger was held on that play not called (that happens a lot for or against every team)

7th play: Boldin pinned the ball to his chest the entire way to the ground and through the catch. Look when he rolls over the ball and his hand are in the exact same spot. If it wasn’t a catch CLEARLY there was not 100% conclusive evidence to overturn the call on the field.

8th play: Champ clearly got there early. Watch the replay in slow motion. At the 10:11 mark Champ starts to contact Smith grabs him with his right arm at the 10:13 mark and hooks Smith to make a play on the ball. Good call.
9th play: I guess there could have been a penalty there, but Denver still had a chance to block and defend the kick. I mean after that whole game seriously that’s not what I’d be worried about.

Holding could be called on every play, complaining about non-calls seems kind of petty.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=VVXIDNFaiLc[/QUOTE]

Those two plays are the dang near identical and one was called one wasn't the consistency in this game was clearly way off in the Ravens favor.

And there is always hand fighting between WR and DB Carter slowed a guy down the Ravens DB tripped DT both should have been flagged but they weren't again both in the Ravens favor.

You say that Kuper did hold well if that is a hold then Von Miller was to on Smith's second TD reception right before half but again one is called one isn't again in the Ravens Favor. Pretty sure on Ray Rices huge run up the middle there was a similar hold on that also but again not called. That was the biggest problem that I saw in this game the rules weren't constant. There were two different rule books in place by what I saw and the Ravens benefitted from it the most.

The fact that there were 4 holding calls against one team and none against the other when the same type of holds were evident again proves that there were two set of rules being called. But over all that was a terriblly reffed game with almost 20 flags I think the refs were trying to leave their mark because they were all over.

ravenfan4life
02-15-2013, 09:04 AM
Those two plays are the dang near identical and one was called one wasn't the consistency in this game was clearly way off in the Ravens favor.

Those plays are not even close to identical. On the Manning pick 6 the defender makes contact a fraction of a second early. Champ makes contact before the ball is thrown and maintains contact until the ball enter the screen. Not even close.



And there is always hand fighting between WR and DB Carter slowed a guy down Hand fighting? you should watch that again. He pushes him out of bounds.


the Ravens DB tripped DT both should have been flagged but they weren't again both in the Ravens favor. NO DT pushed resulting first in him going down. Hence the DT Should have gotten the flag.

There is not favoritism there.


You say that Kuper did hold well if that is a hold then Von Miller was to on Smith's second TD reception right before half but again one is called one isn't again in the Ravens Favor. Meh, I know the play you're talking about and Oher, it could have been called a hold, MAYBE. But I'd be more worried about my future HOF CB getting schooled on that play instead of hoping to be bailed out by a tick tack call.


Pretty sure on Ray Rices huge run up the middle there was a similar hold on that also but again not called. Again, if there was one hold on that play which you are "pretty sure" about, I'd be worried about the rest of the D not making a play instead of being bailed out by the refs.


That was the biggest problem that I saw in this game the rules weren't constant. There were two different rule books in place by what I saw and the Ravens benefitted from it the most.

The fact that there were 4 holding calls against one team and none against the other when the same type of holds were evident again proves that there were two set of rules being called. But over all that was a terriblly reffed game with almost 20 flags I think the refs were trying to leave their mark because they were all over.

I said before on another thread to me this game was called poorly in the fact that there were tick tack calls all game. But we can talk about the calls that we're made but to want to go back and talk about non-calls? ON every play there is a non call.

#87Birdman
02-15-2013, 09:16 AM
ON every play there is a non call.

Which is why so many are mad. Yes there non calls on every play but when they start to pile up on one team on third down while the other team is allowed to do the same thing and get away with it is called consistency, and that is where the refs failed.

Honestly if they called a bad game but called it as equally as they could I wouldn't have had a problem with them but they didn't they were all over the place calling completely randomly destroying any flow of the game and where a complete embarassment to the league. They were making crazy calls that make no sense at crucial points in the game.

Kuper's hold shouldn't have been called and the fact that the flag flew when they were all heading back to the huddle is crazy. And as you said the game was called poorly and a poorly called game that went to double OT then yes the refs had a part in a team losing. And like I said they weren't the only part but they were the part.

ravenfan4life
02-15-2013, 09:28 AM
Which is why so many are mad. Yes there non calls on every play but when they start to pile up on one team on third down while the other team is allowed to do the same thing and get away with it is called consistency, and that is where the refs failed.

Honestly if they called a bad game but called it as equally as they could I wouldn't have had a problem with them but they didn't they were all over the place calling completely randomly destroying any flow of the game and where a complete embarassment to the league. They were making crazy calls that make no sense at crucial points in the game.

Kuper's hold shouldn't have been called and the fact that the flag flew when they were all heading back to the huddle is crazy. And as you said the game was called poorly and a poorly called game that went to double OT then yes the refs had a part in a team losing. And like I said they weren't the only part but they were the part.

I gotta disagree. All of the calls people are griping about, mainly the ones in the video, are the correct calls. Ticky tack? Yes - but still correct.

Some just so happened to be at major parts of the game, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be called.

#87Birdman
02-15-2013, 09:48 AM
I gotta disagree. All of the calls people are griping about, mainly the ones in the video, are the correct calls. Ticky tack? Yes - but still correct.

Some just so happened to be at major parts of the game, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be called.

But see that is why people are arguing no calls because those ticky tack calls are being called against the Broncos but not against the Ravens. You yourself said they got there early on Decker but it wasn't called it should have if they are calling ticky tack calls.

The leg whip should have been called regardless because that was obviously PI.

The choke hold on Miller should have been called if they are calling holding because that is the definition of holding.

The PI on Suggs should have been called if they are going to call any PI because you can't get more obvious then tackling a guy as the ball is leaving the QB's hand.

Again it goes back to consistency and the refs failed and a poorly officiated game effects the outcome.

ravenfan4life
02-15-2013, 09:55 AM
But see that is why people are arguing no calls because those ticky tack calls are being called against the Broncos but not against the Ravens. You yourself said they got there early on Decker but it wasn't called it should have if they are calling ticky tack calls.

I get what you're saying, but not seeing or not calling something is different than when you do call something ticky tacky. Especially when they are correct calls.



The leg whip should have been called regardless because that was obviously PI. Did you watch the attached video? The PI would have been on Thomas for pushing Williams FIRST. o the ground.


The choke hold on Miller should have been called if they are calling holding because that is the definition of holding. Lets not embellish. There was no choke hold, Oher had his arm in front of Miller while he was along side of him pushing Miller.



The PI on Suggs should have been called if they are going to call any PI because you can't get more obvious then tackling a guy as the ball is leaving the QB's hand. I did say that was a penalty not called. But if you notice the ref responsible for the part of the field was still looking in the back field when it happened. It wasn't a non call, he didn't see it to call it.


Again it goes back to consistency and the refs failed and a poorly officiated game effects the outcome.

I have outlined using the attached video each and every call and why they were correct, other than the one on Suggs.

champ&dreallday
02-15-2013, 09:58 AM
I have absolutely no clue why such a statement would mean anything to anyone...you get a good win, it makes you believe in things...no big suprise

Have you ever heard a player say they didn't expect to win a game? With Ray Lewis retiring, I'd expect to hear we believed we would win from day 1. When asked, he was almost laughing, and said man, once we made it out of Denver, like he still couldn't believe they won. Again, I said it just surprised me, maybe not everyone. I've heard players talk about going on runs plenty of times, and they usually say we always believed from day one, this was different

#87Birdman
02-15-2013, 10:10 AM
Yeah that push off on DT was actually the second contact the first was the arm bar put in place by the DB so that is clearly PI on the CB. But seems to you every flag was correct and anything not called on the Ravens was to close to call lol. And regardless of me calling something a choke hold on Miller it is still a hold, the refs were poor and inconsistent. Just happened to short change one team more than the other.

Turf Nazi
02-15-2013, 10:26 AM
There was another play where we had a 3rd & 7 and Terrell Suggs dropped in to coverage and he hit our FB before the ball was even 5 yards from every getting to our player and they did not call PI. This was so obvious as the player he hit was on the ground before the ball even got there. NO CALL.

This is the kind crap that pisses me off is the one sided, slanted, biased calls made by the refs from the start of the game until the very end.

They also reviewed several plays and not once did they overturn a call on the field even though there was enough evidence to overturn the calls. Even the announcers could not believe they upheld the calls after the reviews.

Even the announcers couldn't believe some of the calls.

Announcer's comments;

"They got away with one there", referring to Baltimore's interference on the Decker Pick Six

"That should have drawn a flag", referring to the trip on DT at the five yard line.

"I think that is going to be an incomplete pass because he is losing it on the way down" referring to Manning Tuck/Fumble Another comment during the review was "I do not know how they can rule it a fumble" & after they upheld the call on the field "I am very surprised at that"

Both the announcers. "I think it is going to be an incomplete call" referring to the trapped catch by Boldin
During the Review "I think the ground aided him in the catch of the ball"

"From that angle you certainly can't see it" "I didn't see it" Both referring to the Champ PI call.

You want to see some of these horrible calls watch this video. Oh, by the way this video does not even show all of them. There were also at least two holding calls not made against the Ravens, one on the 50 yard TD pass to Smith and the other one where Doom about had his jersey ripped off his back.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=VVXIDNFaiLc

Watching this video makes me sick to my stomach. So many bad calls and most of them were against Denver. Not saying we didn't play terrible because we did, but this just makes me wonder.

ravenfan4life
02-15-2013, 10:52 AM
Yeah that push off on DT was actually the second contact the first was the arm bar put in place by the DB so that is clearly PI on the CB. But seems to you every flag was correct and anything not called on the Ravens was to close to call lol. And regardless of me calling something a choke hold on Miller it is still a hold, the refs were poor and inconsistent. Just happened to short change one team more than the other.

You should watch that play again. The contact was initiated by Thomas.

champ&dreallday
02-15-2013, 11:56 AM
ravenfan4life, I'd say your pretty much waisting your time now, lol. I respect your opinion, but some of these counters are ridiculous. I'm not saying the refs cost us the game, we didn't execute and lost. I don't blame the refs, but the hold on the dive play and the PI on Champ are horrible calls, I've heard diehard Ravens fans say, hey we just got away with one. The PI on Champ is the weakest PI I can think of, it's not PI if you touch a WR. You have to impede the WR, and the contact (putting his hand on him) didn't hold the WR, push or impede him. both commentators said they didn't see any PI, and tick tacky calls RARELY get called in the playoffs, let alone overtime. The fact that you've even tried to argue some of these blatant mistakes says enough. Again, I'm not saying the refs gave you the game, we just pointed out how horrible the calls were, and most Ravens fans I've talked to have agreed, yeah we got a lot of calls, but we still won. I agree with those fans.

You just won a superbowl, enjoy. I think you're waisting your time on our site trying to convince our fans. Congrats again.

ravenfan4life
02-15-2013, 12:19 PM
ravenfan4life, I'd say your pretty much waisting your time now, lol. I respect your opinion, but some of these counters are ridiculous. I'm not saying the refs cost us the game, we didn't execute and lost. I don't blame the refs, but the hold on the dive play and the PI on Champ are horrible calls, I've heard diehard Ravens fans say, hey we just got away with one. The PI on Champ is the weakest PI I can think of, it's not PI if you touch a WR. You have to impede the WR, and the contact (putting his hand on him) didn't hold the WR, push or impede him. both commentators said they didn't see any PI, and tick tacky calls RARELY get called in the playoffs, let alone overtime. The fact that you've even tried to argue some of these blatant mistakes says enough. Again, I'm not saying the refs gave you the game, we just pointed out how horrible the calls were, and most Ravens fans I've talked to have agreed, yeah we got a lot of calls, but we still won. I agree with those fans.

You just won a superbowl, enjoy. I think you're waisting your time on our site trying to convince our fans. Congrats again.

If you're not one who thinks the refs cost you the game, then I really am not pointing my comments to you.

The fans who think the refs favored the Ravens, my question would be. Why?

The second thing is, most of the calls are pointing to are correct calls, especially the ones that had a major impact on the game. The call on Champ I agreed was ticky tack.

According to the rules http://www.nfl.com/rulebook/passinterference there are things were it could have been called and reason where they could have let it go.

And please, lets not use the announcers who half the time get the rules wrong and the other half only see the same angles we do and not the angles the refs who make the calls.

3rd. For those who are, if all you have is the refs made a few bad calls as the reason you lost, you really don't have much.

I'm glad you're not blaming the refs and thanks again for the congrats.

one_bad_55
02-15-2013, 12:21 PM
You should watch that play again. The contact was initiated by Thomas.

So you are saying that DT can't even touch the DB? The DB knew he was about to get schooled and stuck his left arm out to hook and slow DT down and DT used his forearm to unhook the arm of the DB and while the DB is falling down he sticks his leg out to trip DT. The DB initiated the contact here because DT was about to run right by him. THAT IS THE TRUE DEFINITION OF PI.

You saying that Champ's PI call is a good one is a joke. He barely touched the receiver WHICH IS ALLOWED. He did not push him, or change his direction, he put his hand on his back so he could reach around and bat the ball. There was less contact on this play then the Decker Pick Six when the DB hit Decker before the ball even gets there and is pulling his arm down so he cannot make the catch. There was less contact on Champ's PI then the DT play when the DB hooks DT with his left arm and then trips him.

What is pathetic about some of these missed/made PI calls is there is a ref standing less than 5 feet away from both the DT missed call and the Suggs missed call and the ref that called Champ's PI is 20 yards away, as a matter of fact he is so far away you cannot even see him in the replays. HMMMMM something fishy going on here.

If you think that call on Kuper for holding is a good call you have your Ravens blinders on. You need to watch this play again because the guy is engaged with two blockers, the center and Kuper, it is the center that hits the guy making him fall over like he did to the right of Kuper. There was NO HOLDING on this play and Kuper certainly did not get enough of the players jersey to make a call. This was the worse holding call I have ever seen.

You can say that hey there are missed calls or bad calls in every game, which I would normally agree with but when the calls are made against one team but the other team is allow to get away with the same penalties then the game is skewed, biased, and out right wrong. It is easy to just shrug these calls off when you benefit from them but when you are on the wrong end of these horrific calls and non-calls it is not so easy to just say hey it happens.

I can live with missed calls, or a bad call here and there, but it wasn't the calls or the non calls that are the issue here. It is that they let the Ravens get away with the same penalties they were calling against the Broncos. These calls either extended the Ravens drives or stopped the Broncos.

I will not stand for is biased officiating and when I smell a rat, I say I smell a rat.

one_bad_55
02-15-2013, 12:26 PM
If you're not one who thinks the refs cost you the game, then I really am not pointing my comments to you.

The fans who think the refs favored the Ravens, my question would be. Why?

The second thing is, most of the calls are pointing to are correct calls, especially the ones that had a major impact on the game. The call on Champ I agreed was ticky tack.

According to the rules http://www.nfl.com/rulebook/passinterference there are things were it could have been called and reason where they could have let it go.

And please, lets not use the announcers who half the time get the rules wrong and the other half only see the same angles we do and not the angles the refs who make the calls.

3rd. For those who are, if all you have is the refs made a few bad calls as the reason you lost, you really don't have much.

I'm glad you're not blaming the refs and thanks again for the congrats.

Don't use the announcers, but trust the refs? The same refs who did not know that it is a penalty when the kicker was practicing field goal kicks in between the periods? That is a 15 yard penalty and was not called by the ALL KNOWING refs.

ravenfan4life
02-15-2013, 12:30 PM
Don't use the announcers, but trust the refs? The same refs who did not know that it is a penalty when the kicker was practicing field goal kicks in between the periods? That is a 15 yard penalty and was not called by the ALL KNOWING refs.

Where did I say trust the refs all the time? I said don't trust the announcers who don't know the rules. Their job is to comment on the play by play and breakdown the plays.

Do you trust the announcers when they said Carter interfered with Doss on the very first play on that video?

one_bad_55
02-15-2013, 12:38 PM
Where did I say trust the refs all the time? I said don't trust the announcers who don't know the rules. Their job is to comment on the play by play and breakdown the plays.

Do you trust the announcers when they said Carter interfered with Doss on the very first play on that video?

Why don't the announcers know the rules? Most of these guys are ex-players who I would think know most of the rules. How can they do commentary on the game if they do not know the rules?

ravenfan4life
02-15-2013, 12:38 PM
So you are saying that DT can't even touch the DB? The DB knew he was about to get schooled and stuck his left arm out to hook and slow DT down and DT used his forearm to unhook the arm of the DB and while the DB is falling down he sticks his leg out to trip DT. The DB initiated the contact here because DT was about to run right by him. THAT IS THE TRUE DEFINITION OF PI.

You're so biased the only reason I am responding is for entrainment on a slow Friday work afternoon.

DT can touch the DB, BUT E CAN'T PUSH HIM DOWN. WATCH THE VIDEO



You saying that Champ's PI call is a good one is a joke. He barely touched the receiver WHICH IS ALLOWED. He did not push him, or change his direction, he put his hand on his back so he could reach around and bat the ball. There was less contact on this play then the Decker Pick Six when the DB hit Decker before the ball even gets there and is pulling his arm down so he cannot make the catch. There was less contact on Champ's PI then the DT play when the DB hooks DT with his left arm and then trips him. Again, your bias is over the top. will I said Champs call was ticky tack (that means the could have let it go) there is also reason to call it. He made contact before the ball was thrown. Which the same result as the PI call.

THe interception on Manning the DB did not make contact until the ball was arriving. Which is what you're saying Champ did, but Champs was not a penalty to you and The RAvens was. Got it. Biased confirmed.


What is pathetic about some of these missed/made PI calls is there is a ref standing less than 5 feet away from both the DT missed call and the Suggs missed call and the ref that called Champ's PI is 20 yards away, as a matter of fact he is so far away you cannot even see him in the replays. WATCH THE VIDEO!!!! The pass on Suggs was almost at the line of scrimmage the Ref who's job it is to call it was still looking in the back field.

The pass on Champ was in the center of the field with a ref starring at them.



HMMMMM something fishy going on here.

Yeah, it's coming from someone who probably thinks a the moon landing was fake too

champ&dreallday
02-15-2013, 12:45 PM
Where did I say trust the refs all the time? I said don't trust the announcers who don't know the rules. Their job is to comment on the play by play and breakdown the plays.

Do you trust the announcers when they said Carter interfered with Doss on the very first play on that video?

Their job is to comment on the plays because they know something about football. They're not just on TV because they speak well. We bring up commentators because they're usally non-biased and are paid a lot of money because they can break down plays and rules very well. The call on Carter was PI,probably uncatchable but close. The point people have made is if you're going to call close/tick tacky PI calls on Denver, please call it on Bmore, besides the single one called on Graham vs Thomas. If you're calling tick tacky fouls on Denver, ie Champ or the hold call, call the PI vs Decker, gave Bmore 7points, call the leg whip on Graham,and please don't argue DT pushed off first, Graham clearly fell and stuck out his foot, call the PI on Suggs for hitting the RB before the ball got there. The calling was inconsistent. Tick Tacky at times, missing blatant calls at others. The definition of inconsistent.

ravenfan4life
02-15-2013, 12:55 PM
Their job is to comment on the plays because they know something about football. They're not just on TV because they speak well. We bring up commentators because they're usally non-biased and are paid a lot of money because they can break down plays and rules very well. The call on Carter was PI,probably uncatchable but close. The point people have made is if you're going to call close/tick tacky PI calls on Denver, please call it on Bmore, besides the single one called on Graham vs Thomas. If you're calling tick tacky fouls on Denver, ie Champ or the hold call, call the PI vs Decker, gave Bmore 7points, call the leg whip on Graham,and please don't argue DT pushed off first, Graham clearly fell and stuck out his foot, call the PI on Suggs for hitting the RB before the ball got there. The calling was inconsistent. Tick Tacky at times, missing blatant calls at others. The definition of inconsistent.

Here is my problem. It's the bias has blinded you guys. People say it wasn't a PI on Champ, but saying the DB for the Ravens (Brown #23) did the same thing but that was PI.

Watch the video and tell me where the DB WILLIAMS, not Graham, made contact first. He fell because DT pushed him, he DID stick his leg out. But only AFTER he was pushed to the ground.

WATCH THE VIDEO. The ref did not see Suggs' play, he was still looking in the backfield.

Elway'sGhost
02-15-2013, 01:10 PM
My favorite is actually the PI on Carter.

It's almost a natural instinct for the receiver to start whining about a PI call, but he basically continues jogging out of bounds as if to say "Meh, I wasn't catching that anyway".

Only when the flag is thrown does he start complaining.

Anyway RavenFan, you make some decent points and you're mostly level headed, but the fact that you actually see a foul on the dive play for example pretty much wipes out any valid arguments you may have.

The practice kick is simply an automatic penalty, without any actual thinking involved. Those are the easiest penalties to make and they still got that one wrong.

ravenfan4life
02-15-2013, 01:14 PM
My favorite is actually the PI on Carter.

It's almost a natural instinct for the receiver to start whining about a PI call, but he basically continues jogging out of bounds as if to say "Meh, I wasn't catching that anyway".

Only when the flag is thrown does he start complaining.

Anyway RavenFan, you make some decent points and you're mostly level headed, but the fact that you actually see a foul on the dive play for example pretty much wipes out any valid arguments you may have.

The practice kick is simply an automatic penalty, without any actual thinking involved. Those are the easiest penalties to make and they still got that one wrong.

I just rewatched that penalty. I agree after review that was a pretty crappy penalty.

Kuper Clearly has a hold of the jersey, which I assume is why it was called. But I don't thinkhtat was a holding penalty.

The practice kick, I mean I can't say anything about that. I mean, should it have been a penalty, I guess. But they didn't call it.

champ&dreallday
02-15-2013, 01:16 PM
Here is my problem. It's the bias has blinded you guys. People say it wasn't a PI on Champ, but saying the DB for the Ravens (Brown #23) did the same thing but that was PI.

Watch the video and tell me where the DB WILLIAMS, not Graham, made contact first. He fell because DT pushed him, he DID stick his leg out. But only AFTER he was pushed to the ground.

WATCH THE VIDEO. The ref did not see Suggs' play, he was still looking in the backfield.

Dude, again I think you're waisting your time. You're claiming we're biased, we're saying you are. Not one ref saw Suggs??? So when the ball was passed, refs don't take their attention to where the pass went. Was this a phantom pass and the ref thought Peyton still had it???

I just watched the replay, Williams sticks his arm out (not PI) and Thomas moves it (not PI either) this is allowed and happens all the time but the DB usually doesn't fall. They both have a right to the space, but the trip by Williams is blatant in the replay and you agreed. I say the trip should've been flagged, but okay maybe it happened too quickly or they're just letting them play, no big deal, they missed one. To hear you say it was justified, or DT should have been flagged to begin with is asinine, assiten, assi-eleven like Stephen A Smith would say. Have a good day sir.

ravenfan4life
02-15-2013, 01:20 PM
Dude, again I think you're waisting your time. You're claiming we're biased, we're saying you are. Not one ref saw Suggs??? So when the ball was passed, refs don't take their attention to where the pass went. Was this a phantom pass and the ref thought Peyton still had it???

I just watched the replay, Williams sticks his arm out (not PI) and Thomas moves it (not PI either) this is allowed and happens all the time but the DB usually doesn't fall. They both have a right to the space, but the trip by Williams is blatant in the replay and you agreed. I say the trip should've been flagged, but okay maybe it happened too quickly or they're just letting them play, no big deal, they missed one. To hear you say it was justified, or DT should have been flagged to begin with is asinine, assiten, assi-eleven like Stephen A Smith would say. Have a good day sir.

The fact you don't see DT pushing Williams to the ground is asinine, assiten, assi-eleven

Good day to you to sir.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOeL1D8vMiI

one_bad_55
02-15-2013, 01:45 PM
You're so biased the only reason I am responding is for entrainment on a slow Friday work afternoon.

I guess I do not understand why you are here, other than to piss off Broncos fans. As a Broncos fan I would think if I was going to be biased the Broncos forum is where it should happen, which is why I do not understand why you are bringing your Ravens bias here to the Broncos forum.



DT can touch the DB, BUT E CAN'T PUSH HIM DOWN. WATCH THE VIDEO

The first contact was made by the DB, what part of that do you not get? Your Ravens bias is not letting you see the entire play. The DB hooked DT as he was running by him, the DB initiates the first contact by hooking DT with his left arm to SLOW HIM DOWN and while DT is trying to disengage from this contact the DB falls down and then the DB proceeds to stick his leg out to trip DT.

If you think DT pushed him down that would be your Ravens bias coming out. All DT did was extend his arm to disengage the contact. There was no push off with his hands. The DB was not making a play on the ball that would allow him incidental contact down field. What about this is NOT PI?


Again, your bias is over the top. will I said Champs call was ticky tack (that means the could have let it go) there is also reason to call it. He made contact before the ball was thrown. Which the same result as the PI call.

THe interception on Manning the DB did not make contact until the ball was arriving. Which is what you're saying Champ did, but Champs was not a penalty to you and The RAvens was. Got it. Biased confirmed.

You obviously cannot comprehend my comparison that I wrote so I will explain it again. What I am saying is that I want the game to be called the same way on both sides, you know, fair. If you are going to make ticky tack calls on one team you had sure better make the same calls on the other team. My comparison was to show they made questionable calls on one side but not the other.


WATCH THE VIDEO!!!! The pass on Suggs was almost at the line of scrimmage the Ref who's job it is to call it was still looking in the back field.

The pass on Champ was in the center of the field with a ref starring at them.


The two plays are almost identical in the location of the field. They were both thrown to the exact same spot on the field with regard to the line of scrimmage with the Champ play maybe being two yards further down field. Both were under 7 yards from the line of scrimmage.

My comment is the back judge from 20 yards away can see Champ put his hand on the back of the receiver and determine this is PI, but NONE of the refs can see Suggs devour our receiver when the ball is still 5 yards from getting to the receiver.

Again Bias in the officiating.



Yeah, it's coming from someone who probably thinks a the moon landing was fake too
[/QUOTE]

Didn't your mom ever tell you that you do not go to someone else's home and crap on the floor?

I will say this one more time. I am not one of those persons that blames every thing on the refs. But I have been watching football probably longer than you've been alive. When I witness a game where the officiating is so lopsided I am not going to sit here and take it like a good little trooper. I am going to speak my mind. If you do not like it than go back home where you belong.

ravenfan4life
02-15-2013, 02:05 PM
The first contact was made by the DB, what part of that do you not get? Your Ravens bias is not letting you see the entire play. The DB hooked DT as he was running by him,

Do you have a video with an angle of that, cause from the one provided it's no visible.




The two plays are almost identical in the location of the field. They were both thrown to the exact same spot on the field with regard to the line of scrimmage with the Champ play maybe being two yards further down field. Both were under 7 yards from the line of scrimmage.

My comment is the back judge from 20 yards away can see Champ put his hand on the back of the receiver and determine this is PI, but NONE of the refs can see Suggs devour our receiver when the ball is still 5 yards from getting to the receiver.

Seriously, watch the video someone else attached. The ref who's job it is to call that did not see it. Watch the video and you can see he turns to see where the pass goes too late to make a call.



Didn't your mom ever tell you that you do not go to someone else's home and crap on the floor?

I will say this one more time. I am not one of those persons that blames every thing on the refs. But I have been watching football probably longer than you've been alive. When I witness a game where the officiating is so lopsided I am not going to sit here and take it like a good little trooper. I am going to speak my mind. If you do not like it than go back home where you belong.

I have acknowledged that there were calls they missed and some that they could have let go. But not every call that had a big impact is as bad as everyone "bias" as everyone wants to point out.

For example, the very first play on the video, I have a few fans here saying (reluctantly) "yeah that was PI" and other saying "the DB and WR can hand fight" Which is it?

My question which no one has answered, people say the refs had a "bias" or they "favored" the Ravens. Simple question. Why would the have a bias for the Ravens?

ERoyal248
02-15-2013, 02:06 PM
That seems like a maybe....

No, it's a probably.

He bats it down, game is likely over.

70 yards, 4th down, no timeouts, so yeah, Brohemoth is right.

And Moreno going down hurt badly, were down to a rookie RB, a FB, and a 3rd-4th string RB.

Hawaii007
02-15-2013, 02:09 PM
The missed call the pisses me off the most was the Manning fumble. It was so obviously out of his hand as it was going forward that it should have been an incomplete pass. They were showing replays of the tuck rule game on NFL network, and seeing how slight the movement was to call the tuck rule for Brady versus how obviously the ball was out of Manning's hand and yet the tuck rule was not implemented pisses the hell out of me.

ravenfan4life
02-15-2013, 02:11 PM
No, it's a probably.

He bats it down, game is likely over.

70 yards, 4th down, no timeouts, so yeah, Brohemoth is right.

And Moreno going down hurt badly, were down to a rookie RB, a FB, and a 3rd-4th string RB.

The Ravens switched their coverage and played two deep and press coverage cause they were getting beat by the out route. They did this while Moreno was still playing, he was not effective either. The Ravens forced them to run and they had no success.

Did you notice how little offensive success you had in the second half? A lot had to do with the Ravens change in coverage.

ERoyal248
02-15-2013, 02:22 PM
My question which no one has answered, people say the refs had a "bias" or they "favored" the Ravens. Simple question. Why would the have a bias for the Ravens?

Why, Ray Lewis.

That's why.

If you can't see Baltimore for the more favorable calls in that game, then i don't know.

ERoyal248
02-15-2013, 02:23 PM
The Ravens switched their coverage and played two deep and press coverage cause they were getting beat by the out route. They did this while Moreno was still playing, he was not effective either. The Ravens forced them to run and they had no success.

Did you notice how little offensive success you had in the second half? A lot had to do with the Ravens change in coverage.

I agree, Baltimore didn't have much success either in the 2nd half either.

Both teams made adjustments.

The two-deep safety look was confusing him, it helped they didn't have to worry a lot about the threat of a running game.

ravenfan4life
02-15-2013, 02:24 PM
Why, Ray Lewis.

That's why.

If you can't see Baltimore for the more favorable calls in that game, then i don't know.

Ha!

In the eyes of the NFL and the casual NFL fan. Peyton Manning > Ray Lewis.

ravenfan4life
02-15-2013, 02:25 PM
I agree, Baltimore didn't have much success either in the 2nd half either.

Both teams made adjustments.

The two-deep safety look was confusing him, it helped they didn't have to worry a lot about the threat of a running game.

But Moreno wasn't having success either. I just don't get that Moreno going out (who wasn't successful himself) would have changed anything.

SmilingJack
02-15-2013, 02:26 PM
1996 Broncos, a #1 seed, gets knocked out in the divisional round.

1997 Broncos come back and win the SB.


2005 Colts with Peyton as #1 seed, gets knocked out in the divisional round by an AFC North team, Steelers, who go on to win the SB.

2006 Colts with Peyton open vs Eli on the road, play Dallas on the road, win the first and lose the next one. But eventually, they win the SB.


But ultimately, it was the D and rushing attack that stepped up for both the 1997 Broncos and 2006 Colts that ultimately made the difference. Hopefully, that continues for Peyton and the Broncos in 2013.

I am feeling this will be like those two examples. There were about 15 things that could have changed the Ravens game this year and since those things went the Ravens way I guess you could say they were the team of destiny, but I think that's just football!

Conner13
02-15-2013, 03:15 PM
One has to be a complete loser to go to a forum of a team he doesn't root for just to try to stir up an argument from its fan base. It's juvenile. It's ridiculous. It's pathetic.

I mean, if I were a Ravens fan, I'd probably go post on a Ravens forum. I'm sure one exists. Either I'd do that or I'd go try to convince myself that Ray Lewis is a swell human being.

Just saying.

one_bad_55
02-15-2013, 04:20 PM
Do you have a video with an angle of that, cause from the one provided it's no visible.

I have provided a video that you can clearly see the DB as he is trying to turn around to try and keep up with DT as DT is running by him he sticks out his left arm and places it on DT chest in an attempt to slow him down. DT then extends his arm to disengage from the contact and as the DB is falling down the DB clearly sticks out his leg to trip DT. You can even tell when the DB gets up he didn't want to look around or act like he just made a big play because he knew it was PI.

PI is the proper call.


Seriously, watch the video someone else attached. The ref who's job it is to call that did not see it. Watch the video and you can see he turns to see where the pass goes too late to make a call.

What I am saying here, is if the back judge or side judge (can't really tell who threw the flag) who made the call on Champ is responsible for that area of the field then why was there no call on Suggs that was basically in the same location on the field? Obviously the line judge just standing their 5 yards from the play who you are referring to did not make the call on either play it was the back or side judge.

Why, better yet, how in the world could 7 officials that are on the field not see that blatant PI no matter what their responsibilities are during the game? What you are saying is that 7 officials were all looking away from the direction where the ball was thrown. I DO NOT BUY IT.


I have acknowledged that there were calls they missed and some that they could have let go. But not every call that had a big impact is as bad as everyone "bias" as everyone wants to point out.

For example, the very first play on the video, I have a few fans here saying (reluctantly) "yeah that was PI" and other saying "the DB and WR can hand fight" Which is it?

My question which no one has answered, people say the refs had a "bias" or they "favored" the Ravens. Simple question. Why would the have a bias for the Ravens?



That is our complaint here. If they are going to allow hand fighting or what ever on one team then it should be the same for the other, or if they are going to call the PI for hand fighting on Carter than call it on Williams. Do you see we are not complaining about a specific call. We are complaining because they make a call against one team and not the other, or they let one team get away with penalties and not the other. That is not a fairly officiated game and in most people's opinion would be considered BIASED OFFICIATING.

Now I will answer your question when you tell us for sure there was no bias in the officiating? That's right you can not answer that question because you do not know just like we don't know.

Hell for all we know the refs had family members placed bets on the underdog in Vegas, or they were instructed by the league to keep the game close, no one knows except the refs and the NFL.

You say Manning is better than Lewis, but I say Manning isn't retiring this year and what better way to send Ray Ray into retirement than with a SB ring. The story lines don't get any better than that.

You may not see it but people on the out side the Raven's circle see something that just doesn't add up. It was so apparent to people other than Ravens fans that this game was called with one thing in mind and that was to keep the Ravens in the game.

If the refs were fair and called the game the same way for both teams I certainly wouldn't be wasting my time here discussing the refs with you. I would be congratulating you guys on a great season and a good SB win.

But since a fair game was not called, if you want to stay around the Broncos forum than you have to deal with the complaints.

one_bad_55
02-15-2013, 04:51 PM
But Moreno wasn't having success either. I just don't get that Moreno going out (who wasn't successful himself) would have changed anything.

Since you are not a Broncos fan I will answer why this hurt. Moreno is our best pass blocking back. With him out we had to rely on the youngest rookie in the league to pass block and as you saw in the second half that did not work to well. Our other option was a FB that we picked up half way through the season that is not up to speed yet on our pass protection schemes.

It wasn't Moreno's rushing that hurt us it was the fact that we lost one of our best pass blocking players. If you will note you guys did not have one sack until Moreno went out of the game.

ravenfan4life
02-16-2013, 08:45 AM
I have provided a video that you can clearly see the DB as he is trying to turn around to try and keep up with DT as DT is running by him he sticks out his left arm and places it on DT chest in an attempt to slow him down. DT then extends his arm to disengage from the contact and as the DB is falling down the DB clearly sticks out his leg to trip DT. You can even tell when the DB gets up he didn't want to look around or act like he just made a big play because he knew it was PI.

PI is the proper call.

I just rewatched the game with the benefit of DVR and slow motion.

I agree that a no call was the right call. Williams sticks his arm out, you could call it hand fighting but I'm not sure it ever reached that level. Thomas pushes him by putting his hand by Williams under arm and pushes him down. Williams did get up and look like he got away with one and Thomas got up and did not complain.



Why, better yet, how in the world could 7 officials that are on the field not see that blatant PI no matter what their responsibilities are during the game? What you are saying is that 7 officials were all looking away from the direction where the ball was thrown. I DO NOT BUY IT.
All I am saying is they missed that one, and the only explanation I could see is the ref in charge of the part of the field did not see it. Each ref is supposed to watch a WR/DB on each route. They all have their responsibilities



That is our complaint here. If they are going to allow hand fighting or what ever on one team then it should be the same for the other, or if they are going to call the PI for hand fighting on Carter than call it on Williams. Do you see we are not complaining about a specific call. We are complaining because they make a call against one team and not the other, or they let one team get away with penalties and not the other. That is not a fairly officiated game and in most people's opinion would be considered BIASED OFFICIATING.
I guess what I don't get is, The call on Carter (the first play on the attached video) is that is not similar to the non call on Williams/Thomas. Carter made contact beyond 5 yards, continued it out of bounds while the ball was in the air.

You see biased officiating because we are only talking about calls against the Broncos.



Now I will answer your question when you tell us for sure there was no bias in the officiating? That's right you can not answer that question because you do not know just like we don't know.
I can tell you this. There were clearly bad calls that went both ways. Rewatch the game if you want but here are some

Denver ball 1st and 10 on their own 7 (14:10 ark 2nd quarter) Personal foul face mask on Ellerbe against Moreno. There was no grabbing and twisting, as the announcers pointed out.

Denver TD 7:30 mark 2nd quarter. Moreno scores. Decker comes from the sideline with no helmet and celebrates in the endzone. A flag is thrown and they wave off the penalty. WTH is that!?

11:30 mark 3rd quarter, called a PI on Lewis against Stokley, they didn't miss that one, ,Good call (not biased)

11:20 mark 3rd quarter a sack on Manning hands to the face on Suggs (Dierdorf noted it as "ticky tack) NO bias there. And they also threw flag on Williams for hands to the face too. No bias.

10:25 mark 4th quarter Brown hits Dressen shoulder to shoulder and the top of his helmet hits Dressen's facemask. Certainly tick tack, but defintely no bias.

8:41 ark 4th quarter 3rd and 3 Williams is playing Thomas and has his hand on his back, does not hold alter his route or anything and a flag for holding comes out 2 seconds AFTER the ball is incomplete. A) there was no penalty and b) No bias c) that continued the drive that put you up 35 -28 instead of attempting a 50 yd field goal,

On the Thomas go ahead TD at the 7:17 mark, they did not call ineligible man downfield as 2 of the lineman were past the line of scrimmage and did not make contact with a defender before the ball was thrown.



Hell for all we know the refs had family members placed bets on the underdog in Vegas, or they were instructed by the league to keep the game close, no one knows except the refs and the NFL. If you believe this is possible why would you bother watching a game at all?


If the refs were fair and called the game the same way for both teams I certainly wouldn't be wasting my time here discussing the refs with you. I would be congratulating you guys on a great season and a good SB win. But since a fair game was not called, if you want to stay around the Broncos forum than you have to deal with the complaints. Well I just pointed out bad calls and calls they made against the Ravens where there clearly was no bias, so.... I'd say it was called fairly

I got no problem with the complaints. I just don't understand how people can say the refs cost us the game when, your kicker kicked the ground a foot behind the ball on 52 yd FG attempt. At the end of the half and the end of regulation with timeouts Denver decided not to try and score.

Conner13
02-16-2013, 02:53 PM
You say Manning is better than Lewis, but I say Manning isn't retiring this year and what better way to send Ray Ray into retirement than with a SB ring. The story lines don't get any better than that.



This is the best post in this thread.

GoManning
02-16-2013, 03:27 PM
One has to be a complete loser to go to a forum of a team he doesn't root for just to try to stir up an argument from its fan base. It's juvenile. It's ridiculous. It's pathetic.

I mean, if I were a Ravens fan, I'd probably go post on a Ravens forum. I'm sure one exists. Either I'd do that or I'd go try to convince myself that Ray Lewis is a swell human being.

Just saying.

First thing he did this morning, he went to a Broncos forum. lol

Broncos own him!!

one_bad_55
02-16-2013, 04:12 PM
First thing he did this morning, he went to a Broncos forum. lol

Broncos own him!!

His purple colored glasses are driving me crazy!!!!!!!!!

ravenfan4life
02-17-2013, 01:57 PM
His purple colored glasses are driving me crazy!!!!!!!!!

Maybe I can swap them for your orange ones so we both can come to an agreement on how the game was called. :thumb:

Axemaster
02-17-2013, 03:39 PM
Like many Denver fans, I'm still in shock and sick from our lost to Baltimore. I've never felt so bad/sad/devestated after a loss because of being favored, talented and having some unbelievable plays, calls against us. I'm a diehard Broncos fan for life, but I previously said I couldn't get excited about the regular season next year, only if we succeed in the playoffs.

I just heard an interview with Ray Rice on ESPN New York. They asked him if he felt like they were a team of destiny and couldn't lose. He didn't come out and say it, but he said everything but they didn't expect to beat Denver. He said after they survived us, they had no doubt they'd win it all. As good as our team was/is, I'm sure we all thought we'd beat Bmore, but to even hear him say it all started after they got past us meant a lot to me. Athletes usually think their team will win it all, but he talked like he didn't expect to get past us. He specifically said their thoughts changed after Denver.

I say all of that to say this, we have a great team and one to be excited about. I have been crushed since the day we lost, until today. Maybe this means nothing to you, but to me, this has been the 1st thing I've heard that makes me feel excited for next season. This offense will get better, I can't imagine the defense playing as bad as we did vs Bmore. Hopefully, more of us are starting to get over the loss and looking forward to next season.

Well, if you put a truth serum in all the Ravens players, they all, 100%, would say the were LUCKY, yes, LUCKY to win that game!!!! That last second Hail Mary HEAVE that Flacco had, 99% of the time would be knocked down, if not interceped!

That being said, to me, it is 95% on the DEFENSIVE backfield this game! They had a top 5 Defense this year. They tied for the NFL LEAD insacks this year. Champ was his usual unbeatable self this year. SO WHY was this game any different? Effort? Maybe. Coaching? Who knows. All I know is they were NOT THE SAME Defense I watched the previous 16 games. Not even close.

And for all the chump fans, who have your Bronco Underwear on your heads right now, whining about the Bad calls by the Officials, just stop it. Do you realize you don't sound very intellignet to the rest of the NFL???

one_bad_55
02-17-2013, 04:44 PM
Well, if you put a truth serum in all the Ravens players, they all, 100%, would say the were LUCKY, yes, LUCKY to win that game!!!! That last second Hail Mary HEAVE that Flacco had, 99% of the time would be knocked down, if not interceped!

That being said, to me, it is 95% on the DEFENSIVE backfield this game! They had a top 5 Defense this year. They tied for the NFL LEAD insacks this year. Champ was his usual unbeatable self this year. SO WHY was this game any different? Effort? Maybe. Coaching? Who knows. All I know is they were NOT THE SAME Defense I watched the previous 16 games. Not even close.

And for all the chump fans, who have your Bronco Underwear on your heads right now, whining about the Bad calls by the Officials, just stop it. Do you realize you don't sound very intellignet to the rest of the NFL???

Did you just call me a chump fan? You know, I don't really give a rats bottom what you or the rest of the NFL thinks. I am of the age where I do not give a carp what other people think. I have seen thousands of football games and almost every Bronco game since the late sixties and if I see something wrong I am going to talk about it.

If you or any of the other NFL fans don't like it, DON'T READ IT.

Axemaster
02-19-2013, 09:56 AM
Did you just call me a chump fan? You know, I don't really give a rats bottom what you or the rest of the NFL thinks. I am of the age where I do not give a carp what other people think. I have seen thousands of football games and almost every Bronco game since the late sixties and if I see something wrong I am going to talk about it.

If you or any of the other NFL fans don't like it, DON'T READ IT.

DUDE! I am sorry for my choice of words! Chump was alittle extreme.

Every team has the ref/badcall excuse fans, and it is just not in football either, but every sport.