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View Full Version : Top players of different categories since new alignemnt era



fallforward3y+
02-21-2013, 03:45 AM
Best overall QB:Drew Brees
Best QB under pressure:Drew Brees
Best Reading/Decisions QB:Peyton Manning
Best Big Play QB:Brett Favre
Best Extending Play QB:Ben Roethlisberger,Michael Vick
Best Running QB:Tim Tebow
Best Power Back:Brandon Jacobs,Michael Alstott
Best Elusive Back:LaDanian Tomlinson,Reggie Bush
Best Home Run Back:Willie Parker,Chris Johnson,Adrian Peterson
Best Clock Control/First Downs Back:Selvin Young,Frank Gore,Willis McGahee,Ahmad Bradshaw(back when he did forward spins)
Best Overall WR:Andre Johnson,Calvin Johnson
Best Great Catches WR:Reggie Wayne,Brandon Lloyd,Larry Fitzgerald
Best Deep Ball WR:Randy Moss,DeShaun Jackson,Mike Wallace
Best Route Running WR:Marvin Harrison,Torry Holt,Wes Welker
Best Short Pass WR:Steve Smith,Eddie Royal
Strongest WR:Anquan Boldin,Brandon Marshall,Andre Johnson
Best Blocking TE:Jason Dunn
Best Receiving TE:Antonio Gates,Tony Gonzalez,Jason Witten
Best Pass Blocker:Walter Jones,Orlando Pace,Jake Long
Best Run Blocker:Steve Hutchinson,Alan Feneca,Nick Mangold
Best Pass Rusher:Michael Strahan,Dwight Freeney,Julius Peppers
Best Run Stuffer:Kevin Williams,Casey Hampton,Vince Wilfork,Jamal Williams
Best In the Box LB:Jerod Mayo,Ray Lewis,Brady James,James Farrior
Best Angle Tackling LB:Patrick Willis,Navarro Bowman,Takeo Spikes
Best Overall LB:Patrick Willis,Navarro Bowman
Best Cover Corner:Champ Bailey,Al Harris,Terrence Newman,Chris McAllister
Best Ballhawk:Ed Reed,Asante Samuel,Troy Polamalu,Darren Sharper
Best Tackling DB:Quinton Jammer,Antoine Winfield,Lawyer Milloy,Michael Lewis,John Lynch

yes, I know..more than one on most, but on some of them who can really pick a clear cut 1...ignore smiley faces, they got in there by accident

theMileHighGuy
02-21-2013, 04:11 AM
Is this a list that you assembled or did you get it somewhere??

A lot of those guys are retired, some for quite a while... and some just don't make sense.

Smith and Royal best short catch WR? Welker? Stokes? and there are 3 starters right now that are better runners than Tebow.

fallforward3y+
02-21-2013, 04:28 AM
I assembled it...perhaps I should have been more specific for short passes...I meant best for catching basically a dump off pass and making yards out of it..I think your thinking of the category I wrote as "route runner"..forgot about Welker, he should have been in that category..stokes is good, but not tops

I know many are retired, its meant to be the best who've played since 2002, since all NFL teams were in the league.

Tebow is the best running QB, because he can actually run like a real RB, taking on tacklers and what not....the option QBs usually only run when there is a wide open lane

theMileHighGuy
02-21-2013, 04:33 AM
I do miss Selvin Young, always thought he had a ton of potential.

You at least gotta put Champ with the best tackling DBs. I've seen him miss maybe a handful of tackles his whole career.

fallforward3y+
02-21-2013, 04:43 AM
I do miss Selvin Young, always thought he had a ton of potential.

You at least gotta put Champ with the best tackling DBs. I've seen him miss maybe a handful of tackles his whole career.

Me too, I liked him. I put him on the clock winder backs list because of what he did well-fall forward while being tackled. That's how you eat clock and pick up key first downs. Defenders are going to tackle you if they are disciplined, so go for yards while being tackled..he was the best at that..its just not something that really catches anybody's eye..but its a rare skill..if your a guy where tackling you does not mean stopping you it can prove quite helpful

As for Champ, well he's a good tackler..I wouldn't say hes as good as Winfield and Jammer though..but he is good

Since the term "shut down corner" can be seen as a bad label, I'd just like to clarify what I meant by cover corner...I simply meant the best corner at covering, no indication on whether or not they could tackle

BroncoFanNC
02-21-2013, 06:12 AM
RG3 had more yards, yards per attempt, TD's, and less fumbles than Tebow did as a starter.

Newtons rookie stats are also better than Tebow as a starter (same categories).

Only one he beats is Russel Wilson.

Yet all of those guys are better QB's than Tebow, so if the catagory is Running QB Tebow should be 3rd or 4th, even if you just look at the running and throw out the QB part.

Every RB in the NFL is not a power guy looking for contact. There are plenty of finesse RB's.

If the category is QB who mimics a power running back (both running and passing :D), then sure, give it to Tebow.


Short pass, AKA the screen?

Welker is king of screens. Also you have Percy Harvin. But Welker is probably the undisputed screen guy.

PManningTKO
02-21-2013, 12:23 PM
Under pressure Drew Brees? Nah ... I'd take Big Ben or Eli.

beastlyskronk
02-21-2013, 02:21 PM
You really couldn't think of anyone to put over Jerious Norwood? He had 10 total TDs in 6 seasons, he was hardly a homerun threat because he could never stay on the field.

fallforward3y+
02-21-2013, 06:29 PM
RG3 had more yards, yards per attempt, TD's, and less fumbles than Tebow did as a starter.

Newtons rookie stats are also better than Tebow as a starter (same categories).

Only one he beats is Russel Wilson.

Yet all of those guys are better QB's than Tebow, so if the catagory is Running QB Tebow should be 3rd or 4th, even if you just look at the running and throw out the QB part.

Every RB in the NFL is not a power guy looking for contact. There are plenty of finesse RB's.

If the category is QB who mimics a power running back (both running and passing :D), then sure, give it to Tebow.


Short pass, AKA the screen?

Welker is king of screens. Also you have Percy Harvin. But Welker is probably the undisputed screen guy.

Your missing the point, the point is that Tebow is the only QB who will run when he will be hit before the first down marker. RG3,Newton,Wilson will only run when there is a wide lane, that's not a real runner. I realize QBs aren't expected to be legit runners, but the category is running QB so if there is somebody who is one, and he's the only one..it goes to him

Rushing average is meaningless for a QB if he only even runs it when he knows he can get a big chunk, and of course its throwing out the QB part that goes without saying..the category was which QB is the best runner

Harvin and Welker are good, but I'd take Royal on a short dunk pass. Royal is a guy who I'd want to dunk it too even if somebody was in front of him. He would either evade him, or make sure he gets a decent pickup by falling forward if he is caught. Welker is good, but in NE its all about the system..if not for that system he wouldn't be as good at them. As for Harvin, well..not everybody can make the list.

fallforward3y+
02-21-2013, 06:37 PM
Under pressure Drew Brees? Nah ... I'd take Big Ben or Eli.

You may have misunderstood what I meant by pressure. I meant pressure as defensive lineman/blitzers in his face, not pressure as in playoffs/clutch situations.

If your referring to that, then there is only one answer, Eli Manning. However for pressure as I was referring to, Eli isn't very good.

As for Big Ben, well he's the play extention king, and used to be the game winning drive king. Now however, he isn't very good in game winning drive situations...He threw the pick vs Dallas, failed vs Bengals, threw the pick vs Denver..couldn't lead them in the SB back in '10...I remember when I first saw him fail to lead one vs the Jets in 2010..it was the first time I had ever seen him fail...I wonder what happened to him, he used to be automatic

fallforward3y+
02-21-2013, 06:43 PM
You really couldn't think of anyone to put over Jerious Norwood? He had 10 total TDs in 6 seasons, he was hardly a homerun threat because he could never stay on the field.

That's not taken into account, this isn't about who was able to be there every game, or who would be the best fantasy player. Its about who was the best in that specific category, and for hitting a home run from the backfield he was always a threat..and a great one. He was the fastest back in his draft, and everyone knew that if you let him get past the safety that was it..there was no catching him

Darren McFadden or Willie Parker could have sufficed though..they are/were certainly up there

beastlyskronk
02-21-2013, 09:07 PM
That's not taken into account, this isn't about who was able to be there every game, or who would be the best fantasy player. Its about who was the best in that specific category, and for hitting a home run from the backfield he was always a threat..and a great one. He was the fastest back in his draft, and everyone knew that if you let him get past the safety that was it..there was no catching him

Darren McFadden or Willie Parker could have sufficed though..they are/were certainly up there

He averaged a TD every 57 carries. He wasn't a big play threat, he was fast there's no doubt about that, but he had no vision to see the holes to hit the homeruns. I followed his career very closely (had high hopes for him) so I know him very well. Tatum Bell was a bigger homerun threat. There have been a lot of RBs that have been bigger homerun threats than Norwood.

Also he wasn't the fastest RB in the draft, Reggie Bush was faster than Norwood.

fallforward3y+
02-21-2013, 09:40 PM
He averaged a TD every 57 carries. He wasn't a big play threat, he was fast there's no doubt about that, but he had no vision to see the holes to hit the homeruns. I followed his career very closely (had high hopes for him) so I know him very well. Tatum Bell was a bigger homerun threat. There have been a lot of RBs that have been bigger homerun threats than Norwood.

Also he wasn't the fastest RB in the draft, Reggie Bush was faster than Norwood.

I believe that Norwood had a few hundredths of a second on Bush. Bush was the quickest back in the draft.

I agree that he didn't live up to his potential, but he was definitely a home run threat when he played. Tatum Bell was not a better home run threat than he was. He may have had a higher TD/carry ratio but that has much more to do with who gets goal line carries. Norwood didn't get those, because he wasn't very good at short yardage.

beastlyskronk
02-21-2013, 09:59 PM
I believe that Norwood had a few hundredths of a second on Bush. Bush was the quickest back in the draft.

I agree that he didn't live up to his potential, but he was definitely a home run threat when he played. Tatum Bell was not a better home run threat than he was. He may have had a higher TD/carry ratio but that has much more to do with who gets goal line carries. Norwood didn't get those, because he wasn't very good at short yardage.

Even then he only had 4 TD runs of 20 or more yards out of those 7 TDs, while Tatum Bell had 5 TD runs of 20 or more yards.

beastlyskronk
02-21-2013, 10:02 PM
Either way CJ Spiller and Jamaal Charles should both be up there

fallforward3y+
02-21-2013, 10:20 PM
Either way CJ Spiller and Jamaal Charles should both be up there

From what you said about Jerious Norwood, perhaps I was a little Falcon biased on that one..and maybe I was going more on potential than production.

However, Spiller and Charles don't belong out there. If I take Norwood out, I put in McFadden or Willie Parker. Don't get me wrong, those 2 are fast but bare in mind I only have 3 or 4 names per category. How can you say definitively that Spiller and Charles are better than those 2. Charles may have the best combination of vision and quickness to find the hole, but purely on his speed he is not as good as those guys.

Bare in mind, I'm going on home run threat based on them being able to outrun guys to the endzone. Going on most TDs from far out can be unreliable, because often times long TDs are the result of missed tackles or poor angles. I remember at one point Ernest Graham was leading the league in 40 plus TDs and he may have been the league's slowest RB.

I remember a play where Hines Ward scored a 70 yard TD on DeAngelo Hall, not by burning him, but by breaking out of his tackle..then getting caught around the 4 or so but diving into the endzone. If you go by long TD statistics, Ward burned Hall on that play. However, in reality Hall was actually much faster than Ward on that play because he was able to catch up to him before he reached the endzone, even after getting up from missing the tackle.

One could make the argument that breaking tackles on a TD run is just as good as not being touched, and I suppose it is, but its not the idea of a home run threat. You will not consistently score long TDs doing that, because defenders can tackle you with simple fundamentals. However, if you are able to get into open green..you will consistently make big runs if you have speed.

beastlyskronk
02-21-2013, 10:46 PM
It doesn't matter how fast you are if you can't score, a home run threat can't be a home run threat if he doesn't score consistently and Charles and Spiller are 2 of the best at it. Even if speed is the main factor then Spiller should definitely be there, he ran an unofficial 4.27 at the combine, I don't remember the official time. Charles ran a 4.36 at the combine and he may even be faster than that on the football field. Even if Spiller's time is off, he very well may be the fastest RB in the NFL. But AP, Spiller and Charles are the biggest home run threats. They can score from anywhere on the field. AP had 27 runs of 20 or more yards. Spiller was 2nd with 12 and Charles was tied for 3rd with 11 (Doug Martin was the other RB). Spiller also had 5 runs of 40 or more yards. He also averaged 6 ypc on over 200 carries. Off the top of my head the only RBs that have been able to do that are OJ Simpson, Barry Sanders, Jim Brown, Gale Sayers, and Mercury Morris.

fallforward3y+
02-21-2013, 11:07 PM
From what I've seen of Charles, I wouldn't put him in my top 3. Willie Parker back in his day was probably the top home run threat, but he slipped my mind when I made it. I should edit the list and put him on there. I have AP on the list, as well as Chris Johnson. Chris Johnson I believe has a nod over CJ Spiller. Remember this isn't top home run threats right now, its since 2002..that includes CJ's 09 season. He was the top home run threat that year, and I don't believe he was ever caught from behind. He ran a 4.2, and was a threat to score at any point in time. No being fast doesn't automatically make you a scoring threat, however it is the major reason why backs can score from far out.

Its tough to rely on the statistics, because often times a slight crease is the difference between breaking a big one and only getting a 1 yard run. At times, the difference in scoring is if they can find those creases or not.

johnlimburg
02-24-2013, 02:43 PM
Eddie Royal cannot be on that list. He had one great season and one good one. The others have all been unproductive. There are many more guys who could overtake him for one of the best short pass wide receivers. For example Brandon Marhsall. He makes a lot of short catches and turns them into bigger plays.

Tim Tebow wasn't even the best running quarterback in the one season he has seen extended playing time. Cam Newton was much better. Then this past season another guy named RG3 came into the picture and was better. Then in the past a guy like Mike Vick had been doing it well for a long time. Tim Tebow was not and is not the best running quarterback in the league.

If Nick Mangold gets a spot on the list as the best run blocker then I can think of two older guys who are much more deserving. Tom Nalen and Kevin Mawae. They both played in the time period we are talking about and both were better players then Nick Mangold. These guys should be ahead of Mangold on your list.

fallforward3y+
02-26-2013, 05:51 AM
Eddie Royal cannot be on that list. He had one great season and one good one. The others have all been unproductive. There are many more guys who could overtake him for one of the best short pass wide receivers. For example Brandon Marhsall. He makes a lot of short catches and turns them into bigger plays.

Tim Tebow wasn't even the best running quarterback in the one season he has seen extended playing time. Cam Newton was much better. Then this past season another guy named RG3 came into the picture and was better. Then in the past a guy like Mike Vick had been doing it well for a long time. Tim Tebow was not and is not the best running quarterback in the league.

If Nick Mangold gets a spot on the list as the best run blocker then I can think of two older guys who are much more deserving. Tom Nalen and Kevin Mawae. They both played in the time period we are talking about and both were better players then Nick Mangold. These guys should be ahead of Mangold on your list.

I disagree on Cam Newton, but really I think what everyone disagrees with is the criteria for best running QB. Newton is certainly faster, and makes more big runs BUT I think Tebow is more of a true runner. Guys like Newton only run when they can get a big play, so ofcourse their stats will be good. But, Tebow is the only QB who can actually run when there are tacklers who can get to him before he gets a first down.

On Royal, I'm going by his early years. He was great at that. He was insanely quick and hard to catch, and if he was tackled he was good at falling forward to make it a good gain. If I was looking for a WR to use for short passes as a form of a run game, I'd pick him. His production certainly dropped, but not because of a lack of that skill. I was going purely on that.

On Mangold, well there have been lots of great run blockers who've played in that time. I decided to narrow it down to interior lineman since they block the best run stuffers(DTs)..It was tough to narrow it down, but I do think Mangold is the best run blocking center, he's a beast. The 2 you named are good though. If I replaced Mangold with anybody I'd probably go with Brian Waters,Will Shields or Jahri Evans

johnlimburg
02-27-2013, 05:39 AM
I disagree on Cam Newton, but really I think what everyone disagrees with is the criteria for best running QB. Newton is certainly faster, and makes more big runs BUT I think Tebow is more of a true runner. Guys like Newton only run when they can get a big play, so ofcourse their stats will be good. But, Tebow is the only QB who can actually run when there are tacklers who can get to him before he gets a first down.

What is more of a traditional runner ? Tebiw is not as explosive, not as fast, not as agile, not as quick and not as dynamic. He also fumbles the ball more then Cam Newton. Tim Tebow may have him just a little bit on power running however Cam Newton is probably just as strong as of a runner in traffic. Add in him being a much more dynamic runner as well and it makes him much tougher to get on the ground. And I don't think you have watched Cam Newton. He runs a lot of designed run plays and just turns them into bigger runs. Why ? Because he is better at it.


On Royal, I'm going by his early years. He was great at that. He was insanely quick and hard to catch, and if he was tackled he was good at falling forward to make it a good gain. If I was looking for a WR to use for short passes as a form of a run game, I'd pick him. His production certainly dropped, but not because of a lack of that skill. I was going purely on that.

As a rookie yes. He was good at it. However no way a guy who had one good year of it in his career can be on a list like this. There are many many many other guys who are better in this area. For example guys like Wes Welker, Hines Ward, Reggie Wayne and may many others. They should all be above a guy like Eddie Royal. It isn't even a question.


On Mangold, well there have been lots of great run blockers who've played in that time. I decided to narrow it down to interior lineman since they block the best run stuffers(DTs)..It was tough to narrow it down, but I do think Mangold is the best run blocking center, he's a beast. The 2 you named are good though. If I replaced Mangold with anybody I'd probably go with Brian Waters,Will Shields or Jahri Evans

I could add many other players to go ahead of the very overrated Nick Mangold. On top of some legends like the guys I mentioned there are also the guys you mentioned along with one of the best guards in the NFL, Carl Nicks. Also I would look at Adrian Petersons offensive line to see some amazing run blocking offensive lineman.

fallforward3y+
02-28-2013, 03:40 AM
What is more of a traditional runner ? Tebiw is not as explosive, not as fast, not as agile, not as quick and not as dynamic. He also fumbles the ball more then Cam Newton. Tim Tebow may have him just a little bit on power running however Cam Newton is probably just as strong as of a runner in traffic. Add in him being a much more dynamic runner as well and it makes him much tougher to get on the ground. And I don't think you have watched Cam Newton. He runs a lot of designed run plays and just turns them into bigger runs. Why ? Because he is better at it.



As a rookie yes. He was good at it. However no way a guy who had one good year of it in his career can be on a list like this. There are many many many other guys who are better in this area. For example guys like Wes Welker, Hines Ward, Reggie Wayne and may many others. They should all be above a guy like Eddie Royal. It isn't even a question.



I could add many other players to go ahead of the very overrated Nick Mangold. On top of some legends like the guys I mentioned there are also the guys you mentioned along with one of the best guards in the NFL, Carl Nicks. Also I would look at Adrian Petersons offensive line to see some amazing run blocking offensive lineman.

I have watched him run, and he's not as good of an in traffic runner as Tebow is, though he probably is the 2nd best among QBs, more than Wilson and RG3 for sure. But I don't take into consideration long runs with a lot of space. For those, they only take off when they know they can get a big chunk before they are touched, and when they finally are approached they usually have a ton of space to evade them. Its practically like a kick return. I was thinking of the QB who could best run like a real RB, than IMO is Tebow.

If you throw a short pass to Royal, he still is good at doing that specific thing. If your talking purely about skill in that area, I think he belongs there. I don't factor the system in at all, and that's what creates a lot of the stats. I'd take Royal over any of those guys. Wayne is not very good at the ball carrier aspect of the game, if his stats on short passes are good its just because he probably gets a lot of passes when there's a lot of open space in front of him. Ward was ok at that, but not really monstrous at it. Welker is good, but as said I'd take Royal. He just is being used improperly, SD is a mess. Moss didn't look very good when he was in a bad situation with Oakland in 06, but it turned out he still was VERY good, when put in the right one.

For the lineman, I don't think Mangold is overrated at all. Carl Nicks is good too, as are many guys but they can't all be on the list. And I did list a lineman of AP's, Hutchinson. I believe Ed Sullivan is their center's name, he is also very good. Matt Birk was pretty good when he blocked for AP as well, and helped make b-more's line very good as well. Basic point is, lots of good guys but they can't all be on the list. Although I do admit that if you take one guy off its Mangold, I think no list is complete without Hutch and Feneca. Hutch even helped give SA monster stats, lol