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HUMCALC
06-07-2013, 06:02 PM
Of a tryout/roster spot?

bronx_2003
06-07-2013, 07:04 PM
Deserving ? Tebow

but its all about talent and Russell has that in bunches. Its whether he has the dedication needed.

Thats why teams will work out Russell and someone will sign him and take that chance. Talented QB's are not that common.

BroncoFanBoy
06-07-2013, 07:32 PM
I'd take Tebow over Russell. Anyone with a brain would. Tebow may not be very good, but at least he cares.

bronx_2003
06-07-2013, 07:39 PM
I'd take Tebow over Russell. Anyone with a brain would. Tebow may not be very good, but at least he cares.

That will win championships :coffee:

Charlie Brown
06-07-2013, 09:38 PM
JaMarcus, he was drafted the top of his class for a reason an poor attitude was his problem. Tebow's problems go beyond attitude.

BroncoFanBoy
06-07-2013, 10:19 PM
That will win championships :coffee:

And Russell would?

AllEyezOnZach27
06-08-2013, 03:31 PM
And Russell would?

If we are talking about talent to win a championship then yes!

fallforward3y+
06-09-2013, 02:42 AM
That will win championships :coffee:

LOL! Your using the championship argument in favor of JeMarcus Russell? That's the funniest thing I've heard on here since someone said that if you are scared to take roids you don't have what it takes to be a champion:P

fallforward3y+
06-09-2013, 02:59 AM
Deserving ? Tebow

but its all about talent and Russell has that in bunches. Its whether he has the dedication needed.

Thats why teams will work out Russell and someone will sign him and take that chance. Talented QB's are not that common.

Lol, you must be Russell's cousin. I can not even describe how bad Russell is without getting an infraction. The only upside he had was that he rarely turned it over, and that was just due to his ineptitude. DBs are usually in the area of receivers, and his accuracy was so bad that he didn't get it to the area of the receiver.

You really need to examine your own theory here. When he played, he sucked REALLY bad so his ability as a natural athlete clearly does not mean as much as you think it does.

Your skills are what matter, in the end. Nobody is born a great player, you have to work to become one. Russell's work ethic keeps him from attaining the skills to play well in the NFL, which is why he sucks and is why no one is signing him. I'd be shocked if any team wanted to take that chance, because there is not really any way it benefits a team. At least with Tebow, you can run an option style offense and QB run plays.

If QBs of or above Russell's caliber are rare, the passing game will die out real soon.

fallforward3y+
06-09-2013, 03:01 AM
If we are talking about talent to win a championship then yes!

I'm not sure what everyone's definition of talent is, but whatever Russell has clearly is not very relevant to winning championships, signing him will not help any team. He is awful, flat out awful and doesn't seem to have the work ethic to improve at this point.

FL BRONCO
06-09-2013, 07:55 AM
If we are talking about talent to win a championship then yes!

Lets see Russel has arm talent but couldn't read a defense or anticipate a throw worth a darn. If his reciever wasn't wide open the play had no chance. He had no heart, no committment and was lazy and like to push any blame off himself. Terrible leader and selfish player.


Tebow was extremely incosistent with the short throws, had some problems making short throws, reading defenses and and going through progressions. He is a born leader, never gives up on a play, has all the heart in the world, wants the ball with the game on the line, and will try to do anything he can to help his team.

Since neither has had a chance in at least a season to get ont the field and show how they have improved, I can only go by what I've seen in the past.

I'll take TT 10 out 10 times, you may not have the best chance with him but he plays well in the clutch and can improvise and will give all he has. That gives you 10 times the chance a qb like Russel gives you. TT is hungry for wins for his team and success. Russel is hungry for the next Big Mac

Back to original question, I wouldn't give either a try out, We already have who fits our system on the roster

T

samparnell
06-09-2013, 08:19 AM
They need to be magically combined. :D

AllEyezOnZach27
06-09-2013, 10:59 AM
I'm not sure what everyone's definition of talent is, but whatever Russell has clearly is not very relevant to winning championships, signing him will not help any team. He is awful, flat out awful and doesn't seem to have the work ethic to improve at this point.

And yet Tebow supposedly has this great work ethic and he is out of a job and no one is even calling. To survive Tebow is going to have to change positions. Russell may not have the work ethic of Tebow, he has a more natural ability to throw the football. He is going to get a chance because this is a passing league and if you have a good arm that can make all the throws a team will take a chance.

:2cents:


Just look at Jeff George!

fallforward3y+
06-09-2013, 01:09 PM
And yet Tebow supposedly has this great work ethic and he is out of a job and no one is even calling. To survive Tebow is going to have to change positions. Russell may not have the work ethic of Tebow, he has a more natural ability to throw the football. He is going to get a chance because this is a passing league and if you have a good arm that can make all the throws a team will take a chance.

:2cents:


Just look at Jeff George! I didn't say work ethic was the only thing that mattered, you have to work smart as well(good training methods etc.) but Russell does neither. Tebow is not being called because of his style of play, that and probably the media circus. A team has to want to center an offense around him, oriented around a running QB. People need to stop judging Tebow as if he were a traditional QB, because he simply is not.

But, I wasn't really saying Tebow was a good option just that Russell was awful. I'm not understanding why he is being talked up to so much. He has a cannon arm yes, but so did Kyle Boller. He can not make all the throws, his accuracy is terrible.

His natural throwing ability seems to mean less than you think it does, obviously because he sucks. Nobody is born a great QB at the NFL level. Some of you are treating him as though he's a good player who was released because he was a locker room cancer. He sucks as a player, and doesn't appear to have the work ethic to get better so there's no reason to think he will. Thus, a team would be stupid to sign him, of course that doesn't mean no team will.

AllEyezOnZach27
06-09-2013, 08:10 PM
I didn't say work ethic was the only thing that mattered, you have to work smart as well(good training methods etc.) but Russell does neither. Tebow is not being called because of his style of play, that and probably the media circus. A team has to want to center an offense around him, oriented around a running QB. People need to stop judging Tebow as if he were a traditional QB, because he simply is not.

But, I wasn't really saying Tebow was a good option just that Russell was awful. I'm not understanding why he is being talked up to so much. He has a cannon arm yes, but so did Kyle Boller. He can not make all the throws, his accuracy is terrible.

His natural throwing ability seems to mean less than you think it does, obviously because he sucks. Nobody is born a great QB at the NFL level. Some of you are treating him as though he's a good player who was released because he was a locker room cancer. He sucks as a player, and doesn't appear to have the work ethic to get better so there's no reason to think he will. Thus, a team would be stupid to sign him, of course that doesn't mean no team will.

And do you really see any team in the NFL doing so? I mean Matt Stafford threw 727 passes last season, what team in their right mind would want to build around a guy who cant complete 50% of his passes? I mean at least Russell has a 52.1% comp in his career. No one wants to re-do their entire offense around a guy that is playing like it is the Wing-T era and leather helmets.

HUMCALC
06-09-2013, 08:20 PM
And do you really see any team in the NFL doing so? I mean Matt Stafford threw 727 passes last season, what team in their right mind would want to build around a guy who cant complete 50% of his passes? I mean at least Russell has a 52.1% comp in his career. No one wants to re-do their entire offense around a guy that is playing like it is the Wing-T era and leather helmets.

Russell, played two seasons. Tebow played one. Maybe if he had had another season under his belt, he would have gotten up to or beyond 50%. Plus Tebow threw half as many INTs as Russell did

BroncosPWNn00bs
06-09-2013, 11:18 PM
Tebow by far :salute: He is more deserving because he cares more. He wants to be good, he wants to be great, he wants to compete and win. All Jamarcus cares about is money. I really hope Tebow gets a shot with a team, but I just don't see it happening anymore. :sad:

theMileHighGuy
06-09-2013, 11:37 PM
I don't think you can question who is more deserving, Russell is already fielding some calls though. Despite his obvious character flaws, he has a gifted arm. I too hope Tebow gets a shot somewhere but his cred in the NFL has been drug through the mud and then some by his erratic play and even worse fanbase. He's going to have to rebuild his reputation in another league before he gets an NFL opportunity again. For one, he'll have to prove that he can hit an intermediate route consistently, and be able to impress in a practice setting and not just in spurts on the field on gameday. No one is going to put him on the field if he can't make all the throws in practice, gamer or not.

Really, I feel his only chance to make it in the nfl was with the Broncos. I don't see a team completely rebuilding their system to suit him like we did. Jacksonville or Oakland would seem the most likely... even a place like Arizona in a few years.

BroncoFanDK
06-09-2013, 11:51 PM
And do you really see any team in the NFL doing so? I mean Matt Stafford threw 727 passes last season, what team in their right mind would want to build around a guy who cant complete 50% of his passes? I mean at least Russell has a 52.1% comp in his career. No one wants to re-do their entire offense around a guy that is playing like it is the Wing-T era and leather helmets.

Yes, and Tebow had a 75% completion percentage with the Jets:confused:

Centering the offense around Tebow with the triple option was a gimmick, and Tebow actually played his best and highest scoring games when he played in a more traditional setting.

Pre-Fox his offense which was McDaniels pass/screen happy system the team scored 25 points/game, roughly a TD better per game than in Fox'es - I have no plan so lets go run, run , pass to confuse the opposing defenses gameplan.

Tebows best games were the 3 games in 2010, the 2nd half of the first Chargers game, the Vikings game, and the Steelers game, and with the Triple option the Raiders game and first half of the first Patriots game. Tebow creates a lot of room an time for the receivers and if he can get back to the screen's as played with Buckhalter in 2010 he could be great.

Sadly I think that McDaniels would have fixed the errors in Tebow's game, but he kind of has a better option at QB right now as do the Broncos. Tebow would be the perfect backup to Jay Cutler - Jay is everything Tebow is not and the opposite is true as well. Tebow with Matt Forte could be a scary monster!

Tebow's passing with proper coaching/game plans would do great - this is Tebow's first start


http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2010121912/2010/REG15/broncos@raiders?icampaign=GC_schedule_rr#menu=high lights&tab=recap

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2010122609/2010/REG16/texans@broncos?icampaign=GC_schedule_rr

fallforward3y+
06-09-2013, 11:56 PM
And do you really see any team in the NFL doing so? I mean Matt Stafford threw 727 passes last season, what team in their right mind would want to build around a guy who cant complete 50% of his passes? I mean at least Russell has a 52.1% comp in his career. No one wants to re-do their entire offense around a guy that is playing like it is the Wing-T era and leather helmets.

The pocket passer fans will have to accept that the option offense and running QBs will grow and succeed in the NFL. Stafford's passing attempts is relevant to the Lions offense, Tebow would suck there but that's not every team. You seem to be oblivious to the running aspect that Tebow brings. It is a factor, regardless of whether it's the job of a conventional QB or not. Obviously if you judge an unconventional player by his conventional skill, he will not look good, but you have to look at how effective it actually is.

Look at it this way, you have 2 terrible passers. One can at least contribute to the run game, and does well in the 4th quarter. The other, is a terrible passer who does not run the ball well. Essentially, Tebow is a coin flip, Russell however is almost a certain failure(almost only because I never say never, but there's no evidence to indicate he will be good.

By your own theory about needing a pocket passer, your answer should be neither. Russell is not going to be a great passer, and I have no clue what you've seen from him that leads you to believe he'd help a team win a Super Bowl.

fallforward3y+
06-10-2013, 12:19 AM
I don't think you can question who is more deserving, Russell is already fielding some calls though. Despite his obvious character flaws, he has a gifted arm. I too hope Tebow gets a shot somewhere but his cred in the NFL has been drug through the mud and then some by his erratic play and even worse fanbase. He's going to have to rebuild his reputation in another league before he gets an NFL opportunity again. For one, he'll have to prove that he can hit an intermediate route consistently, and be able to impress in a practice setting and not just in spurts on the field on gameday. No one is going to put him on the field if he can't make all the throws in practice, gamer or not.

Really, I feel his only chance to make it in the nfl was with the Broncos. I don't see a team completely rebuilding their system to suit him like we did. Jacksonville or Oakland would seem the most likely... even a place like Arizona in a few years.

Russell has a great arm, but so does Boller and that doesn't make a QB good by itself. WRs and RBs can be effective only being good at one thing, if a team will let them use that skill, but QBs can't. There just isn't much upside to Russell from anything I've seen.

As for Tebow, despite what I've said he may never play in the league again. The option offense is increasing, but that means more running QBs will be signed out of college. Those guys will likely be seen as better options, since they don't come with a media circus.

I'm not really a fan of Tebow, though some think I am one. I'm really just a fan of running QBs, especially true running QBs who actually can run like a RB. I was disappointed when Tebow left Denver, because I liked seeing a strongly run oriented offense succeed. But, with more running QBs we may see that more. Tebow actually gets on my nerves, I'd prefer a strong running QB that isn't him.

bronx_2003
06-10-2013, 09:28 AM
The pocket passer fans will have to accept that the option offense and running QBs will grow and succeed in the NFL. Stafford's passing attempts is relevant to the Lions offense, Tebow would suck there but that's not every team. You seem to be oblivious to the running aspect that Tebow brings. It is a factor, regardless of whether it's the job of a conventional QB or not. Obviously if you judge an unconventional player by his conventional skill, he will not look good, but you have to look at how effective it actually is.

Look at it this way, you have 2 terrible passers. One can at least contribute to the run game, and does well in the 4th quarter. The other, is a terrible passer who does not run the ball well. Essentially, Tebow is a coin flip, Russell however is almost a certain failure(almost only because I never say never, but there's no evidence to indicate he will be good.

By your own theory about needing a pocket passer, your answer should be neither. Russell is not going to be a great passer, and I have no clue what you've seen from him that leads you to believe he'd help a team win a Super Bowl.

Running QB's will NEVER work in the NFL. It is all about standing in the pocket and being able to dissect a D and making all the throws.

A QB taking off and being mobile is an asset, but only a small part of their success.

Vick is the obvious running QB that stands out in his prime, but even he could be a competent passer. As his passing was still limited he enjoyed only limited success, as well as many injuries.

The one's at the moment who are mobile........ Newton, Griffin, K/Nick, Wilson to a degree are only successful because they are very good passers and that is the vast majority of their game and success.

QB's like Pat White, Troy Smith, Tebow, etc...... were running QB's who were poor passers, and that has ZERO place in this league.

If your QB cannot be a top 5 passer then say goodbye to a championship run, or have an incredible D ready to win games.

Why would a team re-design their offense to suit Tebow ? An inaccurate and limited passer, who is mobile but not quick, and brings the media circus with him. Answer - They won't, which is why when we traded him only 2 teams offered mid round picks, and why no one is interested now.

Russell has all the tools and if he has the drive needed he will be a good QB or very good back-up at least.

Tebow has worked with numerous top class QB coaches, and he still has fundamental problems. i.e. slow release, can't read D's, can't throw to a spot consistently.

AllEyezOnZach27
06-10-2013, 10:06 AM
The pocket passer fans will have to accept that the option offense and running QBs will grow and succeed in the NFL. Stafford's passing attempts is relevant to the Lions offense, Tebow would suck there but that's not every team. You seem to be oblivious to the running aspect that Tebow brings. It is a factor, regardless of whether it's the job of a conventional QB or not. Obviously if you judge an unconventional player by his conventional skill, he will not look good, but you have to look at how effective it actually is.

Look at it this way, you have 2 terrible passers. One can at least contribute to the run game, and does well in the 4th quarter. The other, is a terrible passer who does not run the ball well. Essentially, Tebow is a coin flip, Russell however is almost a certain failure(almost only because I never say never, but there's no evidence to indicate he will be good.

By your own theory about needing a pocket passer, your answer should be neither. Russell is not going to be a great passer, and I have no clue what you've seen from him that leads you to believe he'd help a team win a Super Bowl.

Name one RUNNING QB who has had success in the NFL? I mean real success and not just the team winning games in spite of the bad QB play.

It just doesnt work in the NFL now.

HUMCALC
06-10-2013, 12:13 PM
Name one RUNNING QB who has had success in the NFL? I mean real success and not just the team winning games in spite of the bad QB play.

It just doesnt work in the NFL now.

John Elway, Kenny Stabler, Steve Young, Alex Smith, heck Kordell Stewart and Jake Plummer had some success.

bronx_2003
06-10-2013, 12:16 PM
John Elway, Kenny Stabler, Steve Young, Alex Smith, heck Kordell Stewart and Jake Plummer had some success.

Elway, Young and Stabler were great passers. They could take off from time to time but that was only a small part of their game.

Alex Smith ? Neither good nor a runner..... unless its a different QB to the obvious one.

Jake Plummer wasn't much of a runner, but threw well on the run. He was decent.

I would give you Kordell Stewart but even his passing game was competent.

HUMCALC
06-10-2013, 12:24 PM
Elway, Young and Stabler were great passers. They could take off from time to time but that was only a small part of their game.

Alex Smith ? Neither good nor a runner..... unless its a different QB to the obvious one.

Jake Plummer wasn't much of a runner, but threw well on the run. He was decent.

I would give you Kordell Stewart but even his passing game was competent.

In Elway's and Young's first years, they were not great passers. Alex Smith ran the same offense in college that Tebow did, thus he can run

SoundsOfSuccess
06-10-2013, 12:53 PM
In Elway's and Young's first years, they were not great passers. Alex Smith ran the same offense in college that Tebow did, thus he can run

Okay I'm all with ya and on your side 100% but Alex Smith is a stretch.

PowderAddict
06-10-2013, 03:17 PM
Well, apparently the answer is "Both"

Russell got the first tryout, Tebow the first roster spot.

bronx_2003
06-10-2013, 03:21 PM
Well, apparently the answer is "Both"

Russell got the first tryout, Tebow the first roster spot.

Yep, but that doesn't mean much.

They both have to prove they deserve being on a 53 man roster

FL BRONCO
06-10-2013, 04:43 PM
And yet Tebow supposedly has this great work ethic and he is out of a job and no one is even calling. To survive Tebow is going to have to change positions. Russell may not have the work ethic of Tebow, he has a more natural ability to throw the football. He is going to get a chance because this is a passing league and if you have a good arm that can make all the throws a team will take a chance.




:2cents:


Just look at Jeff George!

And yet the team with the most success in the decade is signing Tebow as qb. How does that foot taste now:D

AllEyezOnZach27
06-10-2013, 07:26 PM
And yet the team with the most success in the decade is signing Tebow as qb. How does that foot taste now:D

Tastes totally fine. Why was Tebow picked up by the Pats?

Because Mc****** happens to be the OC over there. You think he is actually going to get playing time? They have their heir apparent in Mallett so Tebow is there to collect a check and hope (and pray in his case) his throwing can improve to try and get a job else where at some point.

I am not saying I want Russell as my QB but I think he is more deserving a shot because IF he has his head on straight he has more natural ability in his arm than most QB's in the NFL have.

Its just my opinion on the topic.

Matymaddog
06-10-2013, 07:39 PM
I'd rather tryout Mike Kafka than either of these guys.

Matymaddog
06-10-2013, 07:41 PM
Tastes totally fine. Why was Tebow picked up by the Pats?

Because Mc****** happens to be the OC over there. You think he is actually going to get playing time? They have their heir apparent in Mallett so Tebow is there to collect a check and hope (and pray in his case) his throwing can improve to try and get a job else where at some point.

I am not saying I want Russell as my QB but I think he is more deserving a shot because IF he has his head on straight he has more natural ability in his arm than most QB's in the NFL have.

Its just my opinion on the topic.

There has been zero evidence to support he does. If anything there is evidence he doesn't. He started working with Jeff Garcia right after the new year I believe and when he began to work with him, he weighed in at 315 pounds. So yet again, it took someone pushing him every step of the way for him to drop 50 pounds down to 267 just to get a dang tryout. That is absurd. So yet again, we all know he won't do a darn thing on his own because he still hasn't.

atwaterandstir
06-10-2013, 07:53 PM
Tastes totally fine. Why was Tebow picked up by the Pats?

Because Mc****** happens to be the OC over there. You think he is actually going to get playing time? They have their heir apparent in Mallett so Tebow is there to collect a check and hope (and pray in his case) his throwing can improve to try and get a job else where at some point.

I am not saying I want Russell as my QB but I think he is more deserving a shot because IF he has his head on straight he has more natural ability in his arm than most QB's in the NFL have.

Its just my opinion on the topic.

Ryan Malett is no heir apparent....he is a FA next year an depending on how Tebow looks, he may be traded this summer to a QB desperate team. But its highly highly unlikely he stays with NE to be a backup for yet another contract. The guy has sat and learned from a HOF QB and his time to cash in is just about to near its peak. The team wont franchise him, so hes either got to be resigned, traded or let walk. Its pretty clear by the Tebow pickup that Mallet will be a hot trade topic very soon.
The Patriots didnt sign Tebow to turn him into trade bait or to develop him for someone else.... what kind of logic is there in that? How will people know if hes become trade worthy without taking snaps away from Brady? (Which there is zero chance of) the Patriots are not a charity and they certainly arent interested in helping McDaniels save face.

Mallet could net a 3 and likely a 2 from someone just because of his size and his tenure backing up Brady.

AllEyezOnZach27
06-10-2013, 09:47 PM
Ryan Malett is no heir apparent....he is a FA next year an depending on how Tebow looks, he may be traded this summer to a QB desperate team. But its highly highly unlikely he stays with NE to be a backup for yet another contract. The guy has sat and learned from a HOF QB and his time to cash in is just about to near its peak. The team wont franchise him, so hes either got to be resigned, traded or let walk. Its pretty clear by the Tebow pickup that Mallet will be a hot trade topic very soon.

The Patriots didnt sign Tebow to turn him into trade bait or to develop him for someone else.... what kind of logic is there in that? How will people know if hes become trade worthy without taking snaps away from Brady? (Which there is zero chance of) the Patriots are not a charity and they certainly arent interested in helping McDaniels save face.

Mallet could net a 3 and likely a 2 from someone just because of his size and his tenure backing up Brady.

Isnt it the same thing with Mallet? Why draft him just to trade him? :confused: Plus at least Mallet has shown he can throw a ball with proper mechanics.

atwaterandstir
06-10-2013, 10:03 PM
Isnt it the same thing with Mallet? Why draft him just to trade him? :confused: Plus at least Mallet has shown he can throw a ball with proper mechanics.

There is a huge difference in players/prospects.....Ryan Mallet had/has the skills to be a succesful QB. That type of QB is easily tradable. Tebows type is not. Thats exactly why they drafted him. Unless you really think that 3 years ago the Patriots felt he could overtake Brady in a couple years.

Do you really think they took him that early to be a multi contract back-up? There was one reason only, turn him into more value down the road. Just like they did with Cassel. Its really not complicated. Even if Tebow comes in in spot duty and goes 55/65 for 7 tds and no ints that doesnt mean hes tradeable. And hes certainly not going to get extended looks to see if hes overcome his issues. Ryan Mallet is still an unknown prospect with-regards to playing time- but he has the added value of being Tom Brady backup.

fallforward3y+
06-11-2013, 12:29 AM
Running QB's will NEVER work in the NFL. It is all about standing in the pocket and being able to dissect a D and making all the throws.

A QB taking off and being mobile is an asset, but only a small part of their success.

Vick is the obvious running QB that stands out in his prime, but even he could be a competent passer. As his passing was still limited he enjoyed only limited success, as well as many injuries.

The one's at the moment who are mobile........ Newton, Griffin, K/Nick, Wilson to a degree are only successful because they are very good passers and that is the vast majority of their game and success.

QB's like Pat White, Troy Smith, Tebow, etc...... were running QB's who were poor passers, and that has ZERO place in this league.

If your QB cannot be a top 5 passer then say goodbye to a championship run, or have an incredible D ready to win games.

Why would a team re-design their offense to suit Tebow ? An inaccurate and limited passer, who is mobile but not quick, and brings the media circus with him. Answer - They won't, which is why when we traded him only 2 teams offered mid round picks, and why no one is interested now.

Russell has all the tools and if he has the drive needed he will be a good QB or very good back-up at least.

Tebow has worked with numerous top class QB coaches, and he still has fundamental problems. i.e. slow release, can't read D's, can't throw to a spot consistently.

A team already has gone 7-4 with Tebow, and that was with the 20th ranked defense.

Vick was a better passer than Tebow, but in the Atlanta days would not have even been in the league if he couldn't run. He'd have just been another cannon arm QB that couldn't hit a target.

Vick's success depends on how you define success. If your talking about success as a pocket passer, then no. But if your talking about effectiveness, he was very successful. They centered an offense around him, and they lead the league in rushing for 3 years straight, not only due to the runs he contributed, but also because of the attention he got opening up lanes. Their offense worked well for them, it was their D that was the difference. 04-good defense,11-5 went to NFCC game. 05-bad run defense, 8-8. 06-awful pass defense, 7-9. Not to mention Knapp, was a terrible play caller.

Basically, running QBs can win in the NFL. Every time a team with a running QB doesn't win a Super Bowl in that QB's era, people love to assume it's because of him, and because running QBs will fail. But, it's simply not the case, there were many problems with the Falcons that kept them from a championship.

In the era of more running QBs, we will see a team with one win the Super Bowl soon. A QB being able to run adds an element to the game, improves the run game greatly and if a guy is a threat to run or throw it helps a lot. There isn't some formula to shut it down, it depends on execution like any other offense.

Whatever tools Russell has, have not translated on the field. As for his drive, well I remember him advertising himself by saying he worked hard to get all the way down to 280 pounds. I doubt he's going to dominate much other than buffets in the future, but never say never I guess.

fallforward3y+
06-11-2013, 12:31 AM
Tastes totally fine. Why was Tebow picked up by the Pats?

Because Mc****** happens to be the OC over there. You think he is actually going to get playing time? They have their heir apparent in Mallett so Tebow is there to collect a check and hope (and pray in his case) his throwing can improve to try and get a job else where at some point.

I am not saying I want Russell as my QB but I think he is more deserving a shot because IF he has his head on straight he has more natural ability in his arm than most QB's in the NFL have.

Its just my opinion on the topic. 2 words, Kyle Boller.

I actually think the reason Tebow was picked up was to simulate an option QB in practice to help prepare for all the option teams. He is a sneaky coach who would think of something like that before anyone else. I remember they signed Huard just before the AFCC game, because he was Peyton's back up. He told them everything he knew about Peyton, and they picked him off 4 times and won.

bronx_2003
06-11-2013, 08:04 AM
A team already has gone 7-4 with Tebow, and that was with the 20th ranked defense.

Vick was a better passer than Tebow, but in the Atlanta days would not have even been in the league if he couldn't run. He'd have just been another cannon arm QB that couldn't hit a target.

Vick's success depends on how you define success. If your talking about success as a pocket passer, then no. But if your talking about effectiveness, he was very successful. They centered an offense around him, and they lead the league in rushing for 3 years straight, not only due to the runs he contributed, but also because of the attention he got opening up lanes. Their offense worked well for them, it was their D that was the difference. 04-good defense,11-5 went to NFCC game. 05-bad run defense, 8-8. 06-awful pass defense, 7-9. Not to mention Knapp, was a terrible play caller.

Basically, running QBs can win in the NFL. Every time a team with a running QB doesn't win a Super Bowl in that QB's era, people love to assume it's because of him, and because running QBs will fail. But, it's simply not the case, there were many problems with the Falcons that kept them from a championship.

In the era of more running QBs, we will see a team with one win the Super Bowl soon. A QB being able to run adds an element to the game, improves the run game greatly and if a guy is a threat to run or throw it helps a lot. There isn't some formula to shut it down, it depends on execution like any other offense.

Whatever tools Russell has, have not translated on the field. As for his drive, well I remember him advertising himself by saying he worked hard to get all the way down to 280 pounds. I doubt he's going to dominate much other than buffets in the future, but never say never I guess.

I disagree. The 2 examples you gave me wasn't really 'success'.

Vick having one good year, and not much after that. He was an exceptional runner as well, but was at least an average passer.

Tebow caught lightning in a bottle, that was a strange season. From scoring zero points in 55 minutes against the Dolphins and winning, to the Marion Barber running out of bounds mistake, to beating KC by completing 2 passes, and winning the division at 8-8 after the embarrassing loss at home to KC where we scored 3 points. As well as the Buffalo shocker.

The NE game showed our team for what it really was. A lucky one that never had a chance.

Tebow getting signed means nothing. There is no guaranteed money so they could cut him tomorrow if they wanted, and as Schefter implied...there's the jersey sale benefit for a while.

I would be amazed if Tebow makes a 53 man roster. If he really is there back-up in week one then the writing is on the wall for Mallett. They could never trade him. Tebow was not wanted by any team in the league, many GM's say he has no chance of being a QB in this league, and then he beats out Mallett...the heir apparent ?

I expect this to be a fun 4-6 week ride then he's cut, but if by some miracle he makes the roster then Mallett's career is in huge trouble.

PowderAddict
06-11-2013, 01:09 PM
I'd rather tryout Mike Kafka than either of these guys.

The guy the Pats saw enough of that they decided to drop him for Tebow? :confused:

fallforward3y+
06-12-2013, 02:24 AM
Name one RUNNING QB who has had success in the NFL? I mean real success and not just the team winning games in spite of the bad QB play.

It just doesnt work in the NFL now.

That really depends on what you mean by success. Do you mean a team having a good offense?

The point I'm making is that a running QB can be effective and help an offense, without being a monster of a passer. Obviously, any example of that type of player will not be a great passer, so any successful team like that will do it in spite of mediocre or bad PASSING.

However, for a running QB they may play very well without impressive passing stats. They would play well in the sense of running the ball well, and would help the offense be effective in that regard. The Broncos won in spite of their passing game in 2011, due mostly to their run game. But, you can't really say that it was in spite of Tebow, since he was a big part of the run game that carried the team. Some offenses are effective in the way of clock control, limiting the other team's possessions. They would still have to score points, but they don't have to pass for 5000 yards to do so.

A running QB is essentially effective as someone who can run and throw. For that to happen, a QB just has to have SOME throwing ability. Basically, at least being able to complete the easier passes, and not turning it over. Essentially, at least play like a game manager. You don't have to be a great standard drop back passer, because you have added elements. You can extend the play, and you can run in situations where the throw is not there. Also, if a team aggressively plays your running game, you could complete an easy pass with guys over focusing on stopping your run. The option to run or throw can be very effective, makes the D play more honest than usual.

People like to look at any time an offense with a running QB fails, as it being because those offenses don't work. But, like any offense it has to be executed well, of course it's going to fail when poorly executed.

fallforward3y+
06-12-2013, 03:03 AM
I disagree. The 2 examples you gave me wasn't really 'success'.

Vick having one good year, and not much after that. He was an exceptional runner as well, but was at least an average passer.

Tebow caught lightning in a bottle, that was a strange season. From scoring zero points in 55 minutes against the Dolphins and winning, to the Marion Barber running out of bounds mistake, to beating KC by completing 2 passes, and winning the division at 8-8 after the embarrassing loss at home to KC where we scored 3 points. As well as the Buffalo shocker.

The NE game showed our team for what it really was. A lucky one that never had a chance.

Tebow getting signed means nothing. There is no guaranteed money so they could cut him tomorrow if they wanted, and as Schefter implied...there's the jersey sale benefit for a while.

I would be amazed if Tebow makes a 53 man roster. If he really is there back-up in week one then the writing is on the wall for Mallett. They could never trade him. Tebow was not wanted by any team in the league, many GM's say he has no chance of being a QB in this league, and then he beats out Mallett...the heir apparent ?

I expect this to be a fun 4-6 week ride then he's cut, but if by some miracle he makes the roster then Mallett's career is in huge trouble.

There were 3 good years, of Atlanta leading the league in rushing with Vick 04-06. 05-06 were not good years for that team, but there were other problems. The 2006 season for instance, was plagued by dropped passes. I remember a game vs NO where Vick threw for 84 yards, but probably had at least 100 worth of dropped passes. Pass protection was bad, which resulted in sacks. At times, he caused the sacks with his running around, but he eluded a lot as well, the protection was bad.

Poor play calling by Knapp, poor defense as well in 05-06. You can work with a bend but don't break defense, but they had a break defense, lol. Vick was also a turnover prone 05-06, which is his fault, but it's not due to him being a running QB. You have to be able to play like a game manager, even as a running QB, you can't turn it over.

Basically, a lot of things that were wrong with that team, Vick being a running QB assisted them with really the only thing that was consistently right with them, hard to blame that.

There were a few lucky moments with Tebow, but he was a good part of them having the league's top run game, which is the only reason they made the playoffs. The 2 passes thing was due to Denver running the ball so well, not luck. That, and one of the 2 passes being a 56 yard touchdown.

Both NE games, as well as the Buffalo one were examples of the offense executing poorly. Tebow turned it over a bunch, and didn't play like a game manager. That got them in a hole, and obviously if your a run dominating team, you won't come back from being in a hole very well. Plus, the defense completely melted versus NE both times, which didn't help at all. Those losses were largely Tebow's fault, but the problem was execution, not some flaw in the running QB style of play. Of course if you execute poorly, it won't go well.

I actually think Tebow being signed is for him to simulate an option QB in practice, that and maybe a boost of jersey sales. I doubt he sees any playing time in NE, no way Brady gets pulled to put in running QB packages. In NE's offense, Tebow would fail epically.

BroncoFanDK
06-12-2013, 07:03 AM
The sad thing about the hordes of people that claim that for some reason Tebow "caught lightning in a bottle", or that the defense carried him or whatever reason given that Tebow cannot play QB is that it falls every time you get to the factual parts of the arguments.

The guys at Cold Hard Football Facts are always good for actually showing that Tebow has actually played exceptionally well and that the wins are no fluke and the defense was not the world-beater that some most Tebow haters put forth. He has many areas where he needs to improve but it can become quite scary if he does and then at the same time does not loose the virtues he has right now. Here is a very good article to put the Tebow love/hate in perspective (http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/content/the-case-for-tim-tebow-nfl-quarterback/23046/)

Small little fun facts as if we project Tebow's rate of turnovers on a historic list his 2.65 percent turnover rate (15 in 559 touches) is not only good, it would actually be 2nd best in NFL history after Aaron Rogers. In turnover percentage he is actually;

15% better than Tom Brady
16% better than Joe Montana
20% better than Peyton Manning
25% better than Steve Young
41% better than Ben Rothlisberger
49% better than Philip Rivers
51% better than Dan Marino
59% better than John Elway
74% better than Jay Cutler

While seeing him miss Knowshawn by 2 yards on a 3 yard pass does not always inspire confidence, his averages are actually exceptional. What is more is that his turnovers came in very few games and if we pretty much won the rest.

Then on top of that Tebow posted the longest yards per attempt in NFL Playoff history and the longest yards per completion in NFL Playoff history, the biggest 3 minute comeback in NFL History, 4th Q comebacks.....

On fact he is awesome, but the eye test fails a lot of times, like the fact that it is not always the prettiest woman that is most interesting to talk to! I must say that it becomes Tebow to be left at the cross road of - do you want to be a preacher first or a NFL QB, and I like his choice of scaling down the media circus.

bronx_2003
06-12-2013, 09:42 AM
This is a good article from Gil Brandt, and basically this is how I view things.

Bill Belichick and the New England Patriots signing Tim Tebow is, to me, an all-time puzzler.

I know Belichick is one of the smartest people in the game. He's a very thorough person who does not fly by the seat of his pants; he thinks about things. I have the utmost respect for Belichick. However, I can't figure out why the Patriots made this move.

One obvious possibility might be converting Tebow to another position, such as H-back or tight end, in order to utilize his athleticism, which I've advocated for previously. But Tebow is supposedly in line to play quarterback in New England -- and only quarterback. The problem is, I just don't think he's quarterback material.

I know the success he had at Florida and with the Denver Broncos in 2011 sticks with people. The production he had as a Gator -- and in high school, for that matter -- led me to believe he would be a pretty good player coming out of college, though I did have concerns about his decision-making skills.

As it turned out, there are plenty of flaws in Tebow's game, as I documented back in November. But one of his biggest issues is that he just isn't accurate. After completing 66.4 percent of his passes in college, his completion percentage really nosedived -- through 35 NFL appearances, he has a career completion rate of 47.9 percent.

You'll hear people talk about fixing that aspect of Tebow's game, and perhaps Belichick has a plan for doing so. But in my experience, that's a tricky task. As legendary Dallas Cowboys coach Tom Landry used to tell me -- and I put a great deal of stock in what he said -- you can make a guy stronger, you can make a guy faster, but you can't make him more accurate. Someone is either accurate or they're not.

I'm also still worried about his decision-making abilities. I've seen him hold on to the ball and run when he could have easily completed a throw; I've seen him bounce the ball on the ground or throw it over guys' heads.

Of course, we have to remember that Belichick will study every angle of a given situation. Perhaps he's looking to take advantage of Tebow's skill at converting in third-and-1 and fourth-and-1 situations. Still, I can't see going to Brady and telling him he's coming out in those crucial junctures; Brady is just too good.

This could be linked to the advent of the pistol offense. I think there's a feeling out there that the pistol is going to be something big. I talked to two different college coaches recently, and both of them said they think the pistol is going catch on around the league like the Wildcat did a few years ago. So I can see a team preparing for that, with Tebow perhaps being a part of those preparations. But I can't see the Patriots ever taking Brady out of a game so that they could have Tebow run the pistol.

We might all just be reading too much into this whole thing. After all, he didn't get a signing bonus. The Patriots have nothing to lose.

In that way, this reminds me of something late Oakland Raiders owner Al Davis might have done -- he used to like to scoop up former first-round picks who had been cut. His thinking was that if someone saw something in a player that made him worth a first-round pick, why not take a chance and see if the guy can still turn into something? That's how the Raiders ended up with Jim Plunkett, a first-round pick who laid an egg in New England and San Francisco before leading Oakland to two Super Bowls.

Ultimately, though, the question is this: Can Tebow become a more accurate quarterback?

Maybe he will; maybe Belichick can see something nobody else can. Myself, I can't see him playing at that position and winning.

If this move were being made by anyone but Belichick, I'd say there's a 100 percent chance that it won't work out. But Belichick has accomplished so much, and he's so smart, that you have to think this can turn out well for New England in some way.

Still, knowing about all of the issues Tebow has had as a pro, expecting him to take off now is like hitting on 18 in blackjack -- the odds aren't in your favor.

atwaterandstir
06-12-2013, 09:54 AM
Interesting thoughts from Bill Romanowski on the Cowherd show today. If i can find a link I will attach it at some point.
He says Tebow is faster, leaner, and less bulky than other time in his career. He also says the extended QB coaching and work Tebow put in Arizona has made a huge difference and he looks like a totally different QB now. Time spent in NY was detrimental to his progress, because they wanted him to bulk up to play the role that he did. No real QB work. He should get a heavy dose of that in NE and their team is positioned to wait it out and see.

He is a big Tebow supporter, so take it for what its worth- but he also claims he sees Tebow taking over for Brady down the line. I know he and Brady run different styles of offenses and have different strengths, but its not like the Patriots are set in one certain style of offense and unable to change at some point. It might make for a rough patch if Tebow were called upon to run this specific offense, but that wouldnt necessarily be the case moving forward (post Brady)

BroncoFanDK
06-12-2013, 10:12 AM
What Gil Brandt does is argue his ignorance or rather the I Feel/I Think card and treat his opinions as fact. The difference when Cold Hard Football Facts go after the data it is based on facts that can be verified and not on opinion. Based on factual information it is quite formidable what Tebow has done.

Things that don't get talked a lot about is Tebow's quite amazing 2 point conversion skills, and that might be where he contributes more than any other place, because pulling Tom Brady in any other situation does not make sense.

Tebow - shortly after being coached by McDaniels played a lot better than in 2011 - so maybe Josh has a few tricks for the future. Lets face it Brady and Manning both want to play till they get an extra ring if they can, but surely both would retire if it happened and then the Tebow QB based on the factual things that went on might be a gem, and people in NE speculate that Josh will eventually take over from BB when TB retires.


These are the facts

We love Tebow because he’s a fascinating statistical storyline, a cultural lightning rod and a seemingly too-good-to-be-true off-field persona.

But mostly we love the fact that he so clearly challenges tired old conventional NFL wisdom and so routinely embarrasses the so-called pigskin “pundits” who openly mock him and refuse to give him a legit shot.

The reality is that Tebow deserves a shot to play quarterback in the NFL. He does not deserve that shot in New England. He’ll never be good enough to replace Tom Brady. But few quarterbacks in history would be.

But he does deserve a shot to play the position even if we have little confidence that shot will ever come.

Tebow is certainly a better more productive QB than half the schmucks allowed to lead NFL teams today.

He should get that shot ... somewhere. Here’s the case for Tim Tebow, NFL quarterback:

ONE - Tebow has started just 16 NFL games

People mock Tebow’s passing capabilities. He's never going to throw with the pinpoint accuracy of Drew Brees or Peyton Manning.

But Tebow's critics seem to forget that he is still a very inexperienced quarterback. Yes, he’s entering his fourth NFL season – assuming he makes the New England roster or any other roster for that matter.

But he’s started just 16 games in those previous three seasons. Essentially, he has just one year of experience under his belt. Few quarterbacks look like big-time players after just 16 NFL games.

Hello, Mark Sanchez is a laughingstock who clearly can't play in the NFL. He posted a dismal 55.3 Real QB Rating in 2012. Yet he's been given 68 starts to prove he can't play. And Sanchez's production is still light years behind what Tebow has shown in his limited time on the field.

Hell, Peyton Manning didn’t look like a big-time player after just 16 NFL games, either. Manning, in his first 16 starts, threw 28 INT, completed just 56.7 percent of his passes and posted a fairly dismal 71.2 passer rating for the 3-13 Colts.

Not saying that Tebow is Peyton Manning. He’s not. He never will be. But Peyton Manning wasn’t Peyton Manning after 16 NFL games, either.

Tebow has something in common with Indy’s newest QB phenom, by the way: Tebow led the most inaccurate passing team in the NFL in 2011, the Denver Broncos. Andrew Luck led the most inaccurate passing team in the NFL in 2012.

TWO - Tebow wins games

Despite that inexperience, Tebow’s teams have gone 8-6 in the regular season and 1-1 in the postseason. That’s 9-7, for those of you keeping score at home.

The history of the NFL is littered with great quarterbacks who failed to win nine of their first 16 starts.

The reality is that, in the short time we've seen him play, Tebow has proven that he makes his team better and the players around him better. That ability is the single most important factor in sports, and especially in a team game like football, and most especially for the QB position, which is judged by wins and losses.

To discount that ability is to discount the sole purpose for playing sports, period.

THREE - Tebow won games with a bad team and very bad defense

Tebow not only won in 2011 with the Denver Broncos, he won with a very bad Broncos team. Denver went 4-12 in 2010 and kicked off the 2011 season with a 1-4 record.

That’s a 5-16 team, for those of you keeping score at home.

Enter Tim Tebow.

That awful 5-16 team suddenly went 7-1 in its first eight games with Tebow at starter, reached the playoffs and knocked off the NFL’s best defense from Pittsburgh in the wildcard round before finally falling apart in the divisional round at New England.

The anti-Tebow crowd tells us that the Denver defense carried the Broncos to the playoffs in 2011.

The anti-Tebow crowd is filled with idiots, hucksters, transients and railroad bums.

The 2011 Broncos finished the year No. 24 in scoring defense and surrendered 40 or more points in four of Tebow’s 13 starts that season, including three of his last five. Tom Brady, Johnny Unitas and Joe Montana don’t win games when their defense surrenders 40+ points. It’s unreasonable to expect Tebow to win those games, either.

The 2011 Broncos also finished the year No. 28 in Defensive Passer Rating (93.12), a number which usually precludes teams from reaching the playoffs, and intercepted just nine passes all season. In fact, only two teams in the history of the NFL reached the playoffs with a Defensive Passer Rating worse than the one Tebow was paired with in 2011.

It was quite literally something close to a statistical miracle that the 2011 Broncos reached the playoffs with that defense.

By the way, it’s worth noting that Tebow carried the Broncos as far into the playoffs in 2011 as Peyton Manning did in 2012.

Just sayin'.

FOUR - Tebow has a cannon

It may not be an accurate cannon, at least we haven’t seen accuracy yet in the NFL. But Tebow's arm is a cannon just the same.

The world saw that cannon in Denver’s win over Pittsburgh in the 2011 wildcard playoffs.

Tebow set not one but two postseason NFL records that day (min. 20 attempts): his average of 15.05 yards per pass attempts was the best in NFL history; so, too, was his 31.6 yards per completion.

You don’t produce the most explosive passing day in NFL postseason history, against the NFL’s No. 1 defense that season, without a cannon for an arm.

The raw talent is certainly there to make big plays.

FIVE - Tebow is far more statistically proficient than he’s given credit for.

The average NFL fan or analyst judges a quarterback merely by his passing abilities. And we understand why: NFL games are won and lost almost exclusively by a QB’s ability to pass the football efficiently.

In fact, we’ve written about this phenomenon incessantly for years.

But Tebow clearly plays a different game: padding often inefficient days passing the football with highly efficient performances running the ball, while generally keeping turnovers at a very low rate.

His 2.7 percent turnover rate (15 in 559 touches) is not only good, it’s one of the best in the history of football. CHFF’s Captain Comeback looked at the career turnover rate of every QB in NFL history back in November.

Tebow doesn’t yet qualify for the list (min. 1,500 attempts). But among qualifiers, only Aaron Rodgers was better at protecting the football.

Tebow also rates much higher than just his passing numbers would indicate if you look at him through the prism of CHFF Real QB Rating, which measures all aspects of QB play, not just passing.

Tebow’s career Real QB Rating of 81.2 would have been good enough for 12th in the NFL last year – better than the Real QB Rating of every single team that fired a coach or GM.

Keep in mind that Real QB Rating may be the most important stat in football: Teams that won the Real QB Rating battle went 218-37 (.855) in 2012, consistent with year-after-year results. No stat in football has a higher “Correlation to Victory.”

Put another way: Tebow is better than anyone realizes in the single most important stat in football, other than final score.

SIX - Tebow is the greatest QB in SEC history; and maybe the greatest player in college football history.

We all know that great college success does not always translate to pro success. But we do know that the SEC is the best, most competitive conference in all of college football.

Year after year, the SEC wins the national championship and sends more players to the NFL than any conference in football. Hell, 1 of 4 picks in the 2013 NFL draft came straight from the 14 teams of the SEC alone.

And among all that talent, Tebow is the greatest QB in the history of the SEC. And not because he was a great runner. Tebow was, at the time he left the SEC, the highest rated passer in the history of the conference.

Here’s how Tebow’s college production, playing in the same tough SEC, stacked up against that of Peyton Manning

STATS TABLE LEFT OUT

Tebow was more accurate, got the ball downfield better, was more likely to throw touchdowns and less likely to throw INTs than Peyton Manning himself.

Tebow was, in other words, a much better college passer than Peyton Manning.

And it’s not like Manning was surrounded by chump talent at Tennessee. Three of his wide receivers went in the first round of the NFL draft and the Volunteers fielded enough talent around him on both sides of the ball to win the national title the year after Manning left.

Tebow, meanwhile, was a key player on two national title teams, the undisputed leader of one of them, won one Heisman trophy and nearly won a second. Hell, some say he’s the greatest college football player of all time.

The fact that so few are willing to give arguably the greatest player in college history a legit shot to play QB in the NFL says more about the close mindedness and tired old orthodoxy of the NFL than it does about Tebow or his talent.

fallforward3y+
06-12-2013, 03:45 PM
Interesting thoughts from Bill Romanowski on the Cowherd show today. If i can find a link I will attach it at some point.
He says Tebow is faster, leaner, and less bulky than other time in his career. He also says the extended QB coaching and work Tebow put in Arizona has made a huge difference and he looks like a totally different QB now. Time spent in NY was detrimental to his progress, because they wanted him to bulk up to play the role that he did. No real QB work. He should get a heavy dose of that in NE and their team is positioned to wait it out and see.

He is a big Tebow supporter, so take it for what its worth- but he also claims he sees Tebow taking over for Brady down the line. I know he and Brady run different styles of offenses and have different strengths, but its not like the Patriots are set in one certain style of offense and unable to change at some point. It might make for a rough patch if Tebow were called upon to run this specific offense, but that wouldnt necessarily be the case moving forward (post Brady)

NE will never run an offense oriented around a running QB, their style is way too conventional. BB is a genius in conventional offenses, but not unconventional ones as he never does them.

atwaterandstir
06-12-2013, 07:49 PM
NE will never run an offense oriented around a running QB, their style is way too conventional. BB is a genius in conventional offenses, but not unconventional ones as he never does them.

I agree that BB isn't likely to ever run an offense like that. In fact IMO any offense geared around a running QB is doomed, but having a mobile one is becoming very important.
Ol Billy B is getting older, if he hangs them up or turns over the full offense including play calling and scheme to McDaniels (once Brady is retired of course) I could see McDaniels adapting to whoever he has.

BroncoFanDK
06-12-2013, 10:00 PM
g
NE will never run an offense oriented around a running QB, their style is way too conventional. BB is a genius in conventional offenses, but not unconventional ones as he never does them.

Josh McDaniels when he was here was adamant that Tebow would play as a conventional QB from the pocket, and the games TT played in 2010 with Josh playbook, there was very minimal option and his ball placement was pretty good. McDaniels had a definite vision for Tebow, and I am very sure that if Tebow gets to play QB at some point it will not be run, run, pass, punt that is the plan on every first down.

It will be interesting, but then I am one of the few that would have liked to have retained McDaniels through 2011 and have Elway take the managerial level away. I would have liked to see Tebow here under McDaniels in 2011 and see where the offense would have been. I was very impressed with what Tebow showed in 2010 and that draft definitely looked like the right way forward.

fallforward3y+
06-13-2013, 12:31 AM
g

Josh McDaniels when he was here was adamant that Tebow would play as a conventional QB from the pocket, and the games TT played in 2010 with Josh playbook, there was very minimal option and his ball placement was pretty good. McDaniels had a definite vision for Tebow, and I am very sure that if Tebow gets to play QB at some point it will not be run, run, pass, punt that is the plan on every first down.

It will be interesting, but then I am one of the few that would have liked to have retained McDaniels through 2011 and have Elway take the managerial level away. I would have liked to see Tebow here under McDaniels in 2011 and see where the offense would have been. I was very impressed with what Tebow showed in 2010 and that draft definitely looked like the right way forward.

McDaniels was treated unfairly, basically labeled a certain failure before he even coached a game. He came to an organization that already had problems, and many acted as though he caused them.

As for Tebow, he really only had one good passing game, the come back versus Houston. That game was against the worst pass defense in the league, and he was in come back mode all game which is when he is at his best as a passer. Brady is not going to be pulled for Tebow, that just simply isn't going to happen. Tebow is not going to pass the ball as well as Brady this year, and 99.9% odds are that he never will. If they want a passing QB, Brady will stay in the game, and since it's NE they always will.

NE often keeps their QB in when they're up by 40, and they have Mallet on the roster. The only way Tebow is going to see time is in the last game of the year, if it's a meaningless game for NE and they are winning by at least 30. If he does, it's going to be only late in the 4th quarter. There is just no way I can see him playing QB for NE this year.

fallforward3y+
06-13-2013, 12:33 AM
I agree that BB isn't likely to ever run an offense like that. In fact IMO any offense geared around a running QB is doomed, but having a mobile one is becoming very important.
Ol Billy B is getting older, if he hangs them up or turns over the full offense including play calling and scheme to McDaniels (once Brady is retired of course) I could see McDaniels adapting to whoever he has.

I disagree about a running QB offense being doomed, but BB is never going to run that. BB is probably not going to retire for 10 years at least, Brady will probably be around for 6. Tebow is not going to stay in NE until then.

BroncoFanDK
06-24-2013, 12:39 AM
McDaniels was treated unfairly, basically labeled a certain failure before he even coached a game. He came to an organization that already had problems, and many acted as though he caused them.

As for Tebow, he really only had one good passing game, the come back versus Houston. That game was against the worst pass defense in the league, and he was in come back mode all game which is when he is at his best as a passer. Brady is not going to be pulled for Tebow, that just simply isn't going to happen. Tebow is not going to pass the ball as well as Brady this year, and 99.9% odds are that he never will. If they want a passing QB, Brady will stay in the game, and since it's NE they always will.

NE often keeps their QB in when they're up by 40, and they have Mallet on the roster. The only way Tebow is going to see time is in the last game of the year, if it's a meaningless game for NE and they are winning by at least 30. If he does, it's going to be only late in the 4th quarter. There is just no way I can see him playing QB for NE this year.

I have to disagree with that notion of him only having one good passing game. What he does have that is unique is a comparatively very completion rate on large plays and very low on short passes.

I personally think that his rookie start was quite impressive from a passing/play stand point as highlighted here www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAATerH70Dg

baphamet
06-25-2013, 12:22 PM
i said tebow simply because the poll question didn't mention what position. if it is a roster spot at the QB position, i would say neither but Russell could become worthy if he worked hard at it, tebow really has no chance in my mind no matter how hard he works, not as a starting QB or even second string.

fallforward3y+
06-25-2013, 03:28 PM
I have to disagree with that notion of him only having one good passing game. What he does have that is unique is a comparatively very completion rate on large plays and very low on short passes.

I personally think that his rookie start was quite impressive from a passing/play stand point as highlighted here www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAATerH70Dg

Can't agree there. Sorry, but Tebow has just never been a good passing QB from what I've seen. He is pretty good with a deep ball though, he can make a big play on limited throws. Regardless, Tebow was not signed for McDaniels to develop him to be Brady's back up. Brady is not going to be taken out for Tebow, it is simply not happening.

I don't see NE signing a guy just so someone can develop them to be a backup QB. They already have a decent back up QB anyhow, and there are better options as a back up QB for a pass oriented offense.

I'm certain he was signed just for him to help the defense prepare for the option offenses that are growing in the NFL. BB signed Huard just for him to tell them all there is to know about Manning back in 03. Rex Ryan signed him just for the publicity, but BB is the one who tries ideas no one thinks of. The only use they have for him is a practice player up there.

fallforward3y+
06-25-2013, 03:29 PM
i said tebow simply because the poll question didn't mention what position. if it is a roster spot at the QB position, i would say neither but Russell could become worthy if he worked hard at it, tebow really has no chance in my mind no matter how hard he works, not as a starting QB or even second string.

Nobody has zero chance, but his chances are unlikely of ever being a passing QB. He may however, be a QB in an option offense one day.

BroncoFanDK
06-25-2013, 03:43 PM
Can't agree there. Sorry, but Tebow has just never been a good passing QB from what I've seen. He is pretty good with a deep ball though, he can make a big play on limited throws. Regardless, Tebow was not signed for McDaniels to develop him to be Brady's back up. Brady is not going to be taken out for Tebow, it is simply not happening.

I don't see NE signing a guy just so someone can develop them to be a backup QB. They already have a decent back up QB anyhow, and there are better options as a back up QB for a pass oriented offense.

I'm certain he was signed just for him to help the defense prepare for the option offenses that are growing in the NFL. BB signed Huard just for him to tell them all there is to know about Manning back in 03. Rex Ryan signed him just for the publicity, but BB is the one who tries ideas no one thinks of. The only use they have for him is a practice player up there.

Agree that Brady will not be taken out for Tebow - that would be pretty stupid as Brady has outperformed Tebow in any phase of the game in general. What I do think Tebow was signed for is to compete for the starting spot post Brady which could come sooner rather than later. As CHFF shows Tebow is a whole lot better than peoples vaulted "eye test" shows.

Maybe Tebow is just lucky on the passes but somehow I think there was more to it, and if he starts again fans, haters and the ones that are intrigued will be that much wiser.

fallforward3y+
06-28-2013, 11:26 PM
Agree that Brady will not be taken out for Tebow - that would be pretty stupid as Brady has outperformed Tebow in any phase of the game in general. What I do think Tebow was signed for is to compete for the starting spot post Brady which could come sooner rather than later. As CHFF shows Tebow is a whole lot better than peoples vaulted "eye test" shows.

Maybe Tebow is just lucky on the passes but somehow I think there was more to it, and if he starts again fans, haters and the ones that are intrigued will be that much wiser.

Well, he's better as a running QB but NE doesn't ever do QB runs, so he won't get in. Brady likely has a good 5 years left in him, and I'd pretty surprised to see Tebow even stay in NE for that long. They already have Ryan Mallett, and there's really nothing that I've seen that indicates Tebow would be better as a pure passing QB than Mallett, he appears to be enough security.

The only edge I see NE getting out of Tebow is prepping to face the option. I just think people are looking at this Tebow signing in a very wrong way.